AVERAGEPOLISHGUY | Profile | Betting History | Blogs
HeatoN vs cArn
2012-04-09 14:23
Just to give you guys the back story, HeatoN and walle were streaming for Copenhagen Games 2012 (and did a great job btw). I believe they were talking about Xizt becoming fnatic's new ingame leader and HeatoN started talking about cArn saying he was a great ingame leader but really terrible with his individual skill. cArn obviously didnt like this comment and replied in the forums...

cArn's reply :

"Can´t believe I´m back on the forums again, but this is just ridiculous.

First off all, this comment is made by a player who has not more game sense or tactical knowledge than an average+ player of today´s Counter-Strike - it is a different game than shooting 4K players in the back on Aztec.
Just the fact that they can´t deliver proper insights for the followers of the stream in situations when a player decides to not buy helmet during an over-time with mp_startmoney 10k is beyond my imagination, hello 2012. I´m also surprised that they are not aware of how/when the c4 ticks. I mean....I mean...

Also there seems to be general beliefs that recent retired players sits home and hopes that their ex. teammates will lose early in their first tournament, just to save them some e-credit and face. Personally I´m extremely glad that my guys in Fnatic managed to perform so well in their first tournament, they showed truly amazing chemistry and teamplay and the future is bright for this new young Fnatic. Do you reckon that Alex Ferguson is hoping that Manchester Unites places in the bottom of PL just because he is retired? Come on, if you have been loyal to a team and made great friendship with the group you obviously wish them the best luck they can ever have.

Finally, it´s kinda natural that you don´t have your prime when retirement is approaching, this is something I know well, but still I will not sit here and apologize for any decision I have made in my career. I´m by far the longest serving in-game leader and there are extremely few players that can cope with being a leader year after year as it´s highly affects your individual game. Anyway, I´m certain that there are VERY few players on this planet with better achievements(see attached) than me - something that is indeed quite remarkable for a horrible player like myself.

Over and out folks, big gratz to the medalists of CPH Games!

2003
1st KSD LAN in Karlstad(Sweden)
2nd cXg qualifier in Athens(Greece)

2004
2nd Intel cup in Riga(Latvia)
1st Gamegune in Bilbao(Spain)
4th CPL Winter 2004 in Dallas(USA)

2005
1st Rixhax in Gothenburg(Sweden)
4th Gamegune in Bilbao(Spain)

2006
2nd SHG OPEN 2006 in Fredericia (Denmark)
1st CSCL III finals in Oberhausen(Germany)
1st eGames minitour in Antwerpen(Belgium)
2nd WSVG Sweden stop in Jönköping(Sweden)
2nd ESWC Swedish qualifier in Jönköping(Sweden)
2nd ESWC playoffs in Paris(France)
3rd Intel Summer Cup in Dallas(USA)
1st Kode5 Qualifier in Stockholm(Sweden)
2nd World esport Festival in Qingdao(China)
eSports Team of the Year at Game Convention Leipzig
2nd NGL-one season 1 finals in Leipzig(Germany)
1st CPL World tour in Singapore
3rd WSVG Finals in New york(USA)
1st CPL Winter in Dallas(USA)

2007
3rd IEM finals in Hannover(Germany)
2nd NGL-one season 2 finals in Berlin(Germany) wíth fnatic
2nd WSVG China in Wuhan(China)
1st ESWC Swedish qualifier in Jönköping(Sweden)
3rd ESWC Playoffs in Paris(France)
1st Gamegune 2007 in Bilbao(Spain)
1st E-Stars 2007 in Seoul(South Korea)
1st WCG Sweden Qualifier in Stockholm (Sweden)
1st NGL-one season 3 finals in Leipzig(Germany)
1st Kode5 Sweden in Borås(Sweden)
1st ESL Extreme Masters in Los Angeles(USA)
Voted the 2nd best player in the world by GGL

2008
1st NGL-one season 4 finals in Berlin(Germany)
1st SEC 2008 in Hannover(Germany)
2nd Kode5 finals in Moscow(Russia)
2nd ESWC Masters in Paris(France)
1st E-Stars Continental Cup in Seoul(South Korea) (Team West)
1st ENC finals in Leipzig(Germany) with Team Sweden
1st Kode5 CM Storm Invitational in Leipzig(Germany)
3rd ESWC finals in San José(USA)
1st ESL Intel Extreme Masters Global Challenge Montreal(Canada)
2nd International Esport Festival in Wuhan(China)

2009
1st ESL Extreme Masters Finals in Hanover(Germany)
2nd ESL EPS season 1 in Stockholm(Sweden)
1st ESWC Masters in Cheonan(South Korea)
1st Kode5 finals in Moscow(Russia)
1st Clanbase NationsCup XII(Online) with Team Sweden (Online)
1st E-stars 2009: King of the game in Seoul(South Korea)
1st WCG Sweden Qualifier in Stockholm(Sweden)
1st ENC finals in Cologne(Germany) with Team Sweden
eSports Team of the Year at Gamescom Cologne(Germany)
2nd ESL Intel Extreme Masters Global Challenge Chengdu(China)
1st ESL Intel Extreme Masters Global Challenge Dubai(UAE)
2nd WCG 2009 finals in Chengdu(China)
1st WEM 2009 in Hangzhou(China)

2010
2nd ESL Extreme Masters Continental final in Cologne(Germany)
2nd ESL Extreme Masters Finals in Hanover(Germany)
3rd Arbalet Best of four in Kiev(Ukraine)
1st Arbalet Europe Cup in Stockholm(Sweden)
1st WCG Sweden QUalifier in Jönköping(Sweden)
1st Gamegune 2010 in Bilbao(Spain)
1st IEM Global Challenge in Shanghai(China)
1st E-stars 2010: Continental cup in Seoul(South Korea)
2nd MSI Beat it finals in Beijing(China)
2nd DSRack #3 in Copenhagen(Denmark)
1st Komplett Gamer Challenge #2 in Copenhagen(Denmark)

2011
1st ESL Extreme Masters Continental final in Kiev(Ukraine)
1st Fnatic Play CS1.6 cup (Online)
4th Gamegune 2011 in Bilbao(Spain)
1st IEM Global challenge in Guangzhou(China)
1st MSI Beat it Dreamhack qualifier (online)
2nd MSI Beat it Russia in Kiev(Ukraine)
1st Dreamhack Winter in Jonkoping(Sweden)

2012
4th 1st ESL Extreme Masters Continental final in Kiev(Ukraine)"

NOW

I am posting this in defense to..... 'shock' HeatoN. I can understand cArn being upset with some negative comments (even though HeatoN also gave him positive comments) but I find that what Emil (HeatoN) said was also true. cArn's skill level in the later years, undeniably has come down. At least compared to the "average" pro-level's skill. In the early days of fnatic and for a couple of years, individually he had great skill. Aim-wise. But at the end of his career he could no longer purely out aim a lot of professional players. But what cArn said, about HeatoN only having average game sense and trying to diminish HeatoN's famous eco teamdown of top British team 4Kings is not cool. This was CPL 2001 and NiP went on to win this event. I'll tell you what cArn was doing while HeatoN was winning this event... camping in vents on cs_assault with a shotgun in some public server.

HeatoN was and always will be a stud. He was the games first superstar and has a list of titles that is not only as equally as impressive as cArn's but also a lot earlier in time. He was a real pioneer of the game (showing the world the smoke gren trick) and there was nothing and never will be anything "average" about him.

cArn you need tougher skin buddy.


cArn achievements > HeatoN
2012-04-09 14:27:56
Come on guys let's drop this. Both players contributed so much in CS and there is no reason for this topic to get bigger.

I don't think it was his intention to offend anyone.
2012-04-09 14:42:48
the way Heaton said it was just BAADDD
2012-04-09 17:26:12
it sounds like he says that with zero respect for carn
2012-04-12 00:40:27
yeah exactly! he sais " Carn is just ..... TERRIBLE ! I mean compared to ...blablabla
2012-04-12 02:15:21
yeah right...and thats the point where i just thought: srsly? heaton ur an asshole :D
2012-04-12 16:02:04
HeatoN STRONG
cArn not so strong not at all
2012-04-13 00:28:32
exactly ^
2012-04-09 22:45:27
They are talking about individual skills. As a team leader - no one can touch him. Movement and aim....sorry HeatoN > cArn by far.
2012-04-09 15:06:38
cArns current aim and recoilhandling is better then HeatoN's ever was.
2012-04-09 15:35:37
agree, because at that time when heaton was playing everyone was low skilled compared to now.
2012-04-09 15:40:14
ya, same goes for movement.
2012-04-09 15:49:10
by: xtrp
#88
Lol you havent watched any demos on heaton have you?
2012-04-09 17:44:39
I've seen him live and watched demons, why? You don't think it's harder to shoot this days opponents?
2012-04-10 02:36:09
he stopped playing 2007 from now 2012 not much have changed
2012-04-10 11:44:01
A LOT has changed.
2012-04-11 23:40:15
if A LOT have changed tell me then what..
2012-04-12 11:40:31
6 years of pros playing daily, that's quite a bit to learn.. if you quit 2007 you'd miss alot of things, and fall behind. as time goes on, there's more skillful players than the early days.
2012-04-25 21:30:51
You must be SO BAD at Counter-Strike holy shit.
2013-05-06 04:14:50
Heaton was knowing for controlled spray and I remember how he aimed from when I watched him live many years back.. You cannot say he had good tactical aim that was precise.. No fkn way!
2012-04-10 03:11:55
cArn have played cs long time but heaton got pro much earlier than him so if heaton played today he should still be better aimer than cArn
2012-04-10 11:45:29
You're a 12 year old kid who is totally clueless, and judge everything from at fragmovie or something. HeatoN wasn't even that good in his last days.

Saying not much have changed from 2007 to 2012 is just....

Post edited 2012-04-10 15:09:40
2012-04-10 15:09:21
If you say i am clueless then you are atleast more clueless than me so its fine. You said he wasnt good? if he played in nip then how could he be bad? he still could be a top fragger before he quit and no not much have changed since 2007 and 2012

You called me 12 i can say i am older than that but are you? p12a.
2012-04-10 21:03:43
that doesnt mean he wasnt good...matter fact means he was rly good since the game was still new n he was #1.. ofc ppl will hav all the time in the world 2 get better thats just ridiculous he shined when cs was most playd n #1 mutliplayer game grow a brain dud.
2012-04-12 16:47:40
you can't compare it that way. HeatoN in his prime against his opponents did the job better than cArn in his prime.
2012-04-09 17:44:04
Think this just won the thread.
2012-04-14 18:26:31
Its was easier in heaton time
2012-04-09 17:27:29
HeatoN was one of the best aimers in his time. cArn wasn't in his time. Guys like HeatoN, SpawN, elemeNt, Potti, ksharp, Nook and many others made CS popular, they paved the way for guys like Neo, f0rest, cArn.
2012-04-09 17:37:15
off subject
2012-04-09 19:49:53
"Its was easier in heaton time"? Yes it's totally off subject
2012-04-09 19:51:05
WHEN? LOOOL!
2012-04-10 00:15:28
ARE WE TOY SOLDIERS?
2013-05-06 04:21:03
+1
2012-04-09 15:59:30
camping in vents on cs_assault with a shotgun in some public server.
HAHAHA :D
HeatoN >carn anytime
2012-04-09 20:00:50
if it were so easy, why I have not seen you there? It's like football, pele today would not be much but in his time, he was the best. don't copare today to yesterday, because things change and we adapts with them.it's just that carn has not committed some errors that someone else has done before him.Compare what is comparable.
2012-04-10 13:56:03
lol, when HeatoN was 18-19 y.o I was maybe 9-10? I didn't even have steam but cs with hl cracked or smth like that :D I was just a kid who was happy when killed easy bot with a headshot, I didn't even think about pro cs, just don't compare that times. And the gamestyle comparing to nowadays was much easier, opponents too, when u have a team with standard tactics and do a good rush with your team, you were winning the game, nowadays HeatoN would be like xisco in case of playing this game (xisco have normal movement, not that bad ^^)
2012-04-10 16:23:30
:o
2012-04-09 14:28:25
nice nick
2012-04-09 14:44:37
HeatoN > cArn
2012-04-09 14:29:10
HeatoN > cArn anyways
2012-04-09 14:30:23
in cs 1.5 this dream is posible. come on dude. heaton never can play in the level of this days.
2012-04-09 18:41:28
omg, loosers, Heatone is nobody, carn legend <3
2012-04-09 14:32:19
HeatoN nobody :DDD
2012-04-09 14:34:34
Heatone*
2012-04-13 01:44:16
:DDDD OKAY
2012-04-25 18:24:58
+133333333333333337
2012-06-03 20:43:06
When HeatoN played CS if you would put 20 hours in steam for two weeks you would become the best when cArn played CS 100 hours weren't enough because the skill level is over 9000.
2012-04-09 14:34:04
Do you really think so? I would like to see you back in 2003 trying to outplay HeatoN without ANY knowledge after what it was known in 2003.

Post edited 2012-04-09 15:07:12
2012-04-09 14:58:43
less players,less years of experience for all players=less skill,therefore easier to get to the top,pretty easy logic
2012-04-09 16:56:03
There is something you don't seem to understand.

I will put you an example: War

Imagine an ancient war, two sides fighting with swords and spears. What would you say? 'What a noobs, fighting with swords... If I were there I could use my tank and kill them all easily.'

But, did they have tanks to fight each others? NO!!

If you were there, you would have been forced to use a sword, because sword would be the most developed weapon in that time. It would be hard for you.

CS is the same case. With everything you know now, with CS at the highest developing level, is like you have a tank. But HeatoN and the others were fighting with swords.

And you know that. You said they had less skills and thats right. But EVERYONE had less skill, so reaching the top was as hard as it is today, not easier.

Post edited 2012-04-09 18:33:32
2012-04-09 18:32:50
the same applied to a caveman try to use a tank

HeatoN does not understand the play of today's games as much as cArn does and of course making statements like that will only have negative effects

HeatoN lives in a world where he discovered guns while everyone was fine with throwing rocks around, it's easier for him to climb to the top than nowadays

I mean how many team can you find a good matchup against HeatoN's team where you won't even know which team will come out on top?
2012-04-09 20:01:33
Do you really think HeatoN was the only pro in the world back then? get a clue please, there were lots of great teams and players(fo their time).

cArn played back then as well. He sucked and had no chance against the more gifted players/teams.
2012-04-09 20:21:22
the thing is that HeatoN and carn played with the same weapons,same recoil and same gameplay
2012-04-09 20:53:45
not really. CS 1.6 came out on 2003.
2012-04-09 22:35:52
?
2012-04-25 19:54:23
Counter Strike have several versions, the 1.6 one came out in the year 2003. The first beta I think that came out in 1999, but it's not the same than the 1.6 version!
2012-04-25 20:17:16
Lol, don't try teach me, I've probably played CS longer than you've lived.
2012-04-25 20:59:30
That's impossible :P.
I'm not trying to teach you, I'm trying to make you understand what I said before.
2012-04-25 23:14:33
If you wanted to get on level of ancient spartans, you only had to learn to create and fight with sword. If you want to compete with tank, you have to invent the tank and learn to use it. You example is completely wrong, because it's just true, that if I wanted to become a pro player now, I'd have longer way to run than in HeatoN times. If I became a pro in 2001, and than moved into 2010, I'd be semipro -> result : spent some time to get on pro level in 2001, and it certainly isn't enough to become pro now. ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I HAVE SPOKEN
2012-04-09 22:08:37
MAY THE GRACE BE WITH YA
2012-04-13 08:51:32
no, cs was just different back in the days and even harder to win a tournament, cause it wasnt that predicteable and many more teams on the same level. still carn has a much greater carrier than heaton. he was the captain of one of the most successfull teams in the world and always found new players and teach them in tactics and stuff. every player whou played under carns flag became a monster. imo the best igl of all times, so stfu heaton :D
2012-04-09 15:04:20
this is so true dude remember back in the days lets say 2000-2004/5 when you thought playing 4-5 hours was a fkn life time and that could last you a couple of days.. in recent years to be at a top level you have to play about 8-10 hours a day to stay at a competitive pro level.. You cannont compare.. Heaton in his days had it easy and when he turned over to try and play in 2006 with the likes of NiP he bottom scored every game..! He has no say and should be ashamed of his comments!
2012-04-10 03:15:33
It's true cArn,you are one of the best IGL but you have really terrible skill,and you have no rights to talk about HeatoN like this,he is doctor of this game for you !
2012-04-09 14:36:35
ROFL, get a clue
2012-04-09 14:41:35
+1
2012-04-09 14:55:12
carn terrible skill than,ur skill ~0?
2012-04-09 14:52:41
there is no talking about me and my skill...
i said,he is one of best igl,but his skill is not good for that level on which he played
2012-04-09 15:00:41
"doctor of this game for you"

ahahahaha get a clue
2012-04-09 16:26:22
Seriously guys, im really tired of this "look up" to heaton, spawn, potti, etc, etc. They were good players and they had their times but wtf, saying they are better than players nowadays? LOL Thats just stupid, CS has evolved over the years and today is 100x times harder than it was 6/7 years ago.

Carn might not be the best aimwise player around, but he is an igl for fuck sake. Hes not supposed to frag and ace every round, hes supposed to think for the team, and he did his job, amanzingly well! Fnatic might be the best org ever in cs1.6 mostly because of carn, because of the legends he created, because of what he won while heaton had his times when CS was still in its primitive times...

Also and i think this point is the most important. Why the fuck do you treat heaton like a god? YES, he was a good player, YES he won a lot of things but wtf, if he didnt exist, another person would fill his role and be that winner istead. There were great players over the years and heaton is just one of them but so is carn.. And btw, do you actually think heaton had more skill in his times than carn has nowadays? Im pretty sure not even at aim heaton was better lol. The principle factor in carn's "bad aim" its not his fault, you must count that in the other side there are killing machines like f0rest, markeloff or neo who wont miss a fucking shot and believe me, heaton would be smashed if he was in carn's place.

Stop this nonsense heaton > carn, its not truth. carn had a better career and by the actions of heaton on his stream, carn is also a better person.

Post edited 2012-04-09 14:52:37
2012-04-09 14:51:26
"Why the fuck do you treat heaton like a god?"

Rly? I would rather say: Why the fuck do you treat cArn like a god? Because almost every pro player gets flamed nowadays, but when someone blames cArn, atleast 5000 fanboys get mad really really much. It almost seems that it's like a matter of life and death to them.
2012-04-09 15:02:08
I couldnt care less but if you check the topic there are lots of heaton fans saying he is the best player, etc,etc. even spawn was better
2012-04-09 15:15:03
Its not harder now than before, its the same. HeatoN was one of the best when he was active. Taking into account that the game was less evolved, by logic he wasn't able to perform as the top players do today.

cArn wasn't better than HeatoN in 2003, right? HeatoN did his best with the little resources he had back in the days, and cArn did it too, but he didn't reached HeatoN's level.

Is like football, do you really think Maradona was better than Ronaldo? Of course not, Maradona would be playing in a second division team of Portugal with the level he had. But Ronaldo wouldn't be able to do better than Maradona in 80's because he wouldn't be that strong as of today, in part thanks to Maradona.
2012-04-09 15:04:49
"Its not harder now than before, its the same" I stopped reading here. Seriously dude, i wont even make an effort to read your post if you think CS is equal to 8 years ago LOL.
2012-04-09 15:16:53
Do you think it was easy for HeatoN, SK, NiP, eoL to win a tournament? It was as hard as today or even more.
2012-04-09 15:30:40
How was it harder? WTF, today players have much more experience, years have passed, the game evolved, there is more tactical game, there are professional players that train every day, players have much more skill. dude please, dont even try to compare.
2012-04-09 15:43:36
Since everyone were fighting with the same 'weapons' (less skill, less exp, less tactical knowledge...) reaching the top was as hard as it is today.
2012-04-09 18:36:38
Facepalm.
2012-04-09 20:11:54
Mother of god.
2012-04-09 20:48:50
My pov aside, you do not get what he is trying to say. See it this way. You're a passionate footballer. Do you think you can reach Ronaldo's level? Not impossible, ofc, but still not an easy feat. Now, imagine you haven't been born yet. You will only exist in 20 years, in a time where Ronaldo's skill is seen as something banal, when matched with the pro's skill of the time. By the time you reach 10 years of age, you can already perform on the same level as today's Ronaldo, but still you're as equally far from the top as you are today.
That is what he is trying to tell you, do you get the message? :)
2012-04-09 21:50:24
What the actual fuck, that only proves me right, today you are good, tomorrow you are average. Today's competition is much harder than 7 years ago so you need to make a bigger effort to be good! OMFG
2012-04-09 22:23:03
Actually, Maradona would be much better than Ronaldo or Messi. We are not talking about the 60's or whatever. Football in the 80's and 90's was not very much different from now.

C. Ronaldo is a freaking fragile flower compared to Maradona. His most famous goal explains it why. He must have suffered three fouls that deserved a red card in that game. And then he pulls off that magical play.

HeatoN, was good in his time, but now, he would be pretty much dead in every round. The level of game is much higher. More skilled opponents, better tactics and movement. Much more difficult.

So, I don't think it's fair to compare football with CS. Specially, Maradona with ... well, anybody.
2012-04-10 12:28:13
Maradona, nowadays, would last 20 minutes max. in a high level match. The physical level of todays football is various times the physical level the football had when Maradona was active.

The tactical game of football has also evolved. I remember some Real Madrid 90s matches, they didn't even had a tactical structure in corners, they just throw the corner and thats it.

CS, for its part, has also evolved tactically (as football did). The current conditions are also better (better PCs, no fps drop when smoke grenade is throw, better peripherals... The same as football with the physical condition).

What I mean is, not because they were worse it was easier to beat them, because if the top players/teams were worse, their opponents were even lower than them (cArn in 2003, for example), so, how the hell these lower players could easily beat HeatoN and co?
2012-04-10 12:49:32
He won dreamhack last year with such a weak lineup *BOW*
2012-04-09 17:03:13
and IEM 5 with a new lineup ;) check his achievements, bigger and better than heatons.
2012-04-09 17:18:06
Perfect comment. Dont waste your time with this blind people
2012-04-09 22:53:28
.

Post edited 2012-04-10 01:54:31
2012-04-10 01:54:03
was heaton the igl ?
what was the toughest competition he faced ?
was there bhoping and single bullet headshots when he was there ?

heaton was the 1st pro in a world where everybody was noobs...
carn came in this world of noobs and achieved so much more than heaton.. imo heaton was a useless fuck who played far worse than carn in his last years even though he wasnt the igl.. face the facts and stop goin behind stats !!!
2012-04-09 14:57:07
lol. cArn has played since the beginning as well. I wonder why he was struggling with semi pro Swedes when HeatoN owned the world.. probably because HeatoN is more gifted at this game.
2012-04-09 20:13:56
lol no.. carn had a good run in begrip.. with archi and dsn.. :)
heaton even went to the extend of calling him of NiP that time.. which he dint join :)


and if heaton and carn were playin since the beginnin, what made heaton retire earlier with lesser titles under his name when carn stayed till 2012 and the no. of titles, he has stated himself :)
2012-04-10 07:30:06
I was talking about 2000-2005, when cArn pretty much was a nobody. hell, for example elemeNt is even younger than cArn, and he was way more succesful way before cArn managed to do anything noteworthy.

HeatoN probably got bored of the game and wanted to do other stuff in life(skill drop always happen when people are demotivated), like socializing on a daily basis, while cArn was motivated because of the fact that he hadn't experienced being one of the best year after year.
2012-04-10 11:35:32
just 1 question.. do u think that the competition heaton had is same as the competition carn had?
2012-04-10 13:18:34
No, but I see his winnings as just as big accomplishments since he hadn't played the game any longer than the rest. Today, most of the pros have been playing the game for 8-12 years, so they're naturally going to have a higher level than the ones who had been playing for 2-4 years.

There were as many, if not more, top skilled teams(for their time) back then as well. It's not like HeatoN and co were the only professionals among thousands of casual noobs.
2012-04-10 13:46:07
HeatoN retired earlier beacause of sk gaming

watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcqXjVVpuS0

and if that didnt happen then he might have played till now

Post edited 2012-04-25 19:44:02
2012-04-25 19:35:12
cArn achievements >>>>>>>>>>>>> HeatoN achievements

HeatoN personality ====== cArn personality

HeatoN branding/marketing >>>>>>>>>>>> cArn

Post edited 2012-04-09 14:59:16
2012-04-09 14:58:49
HeatoN branding/marketing >>>>>>>>>>>> cArn

Not really, cArn is travelling all the time to China, Taiwan and others countries, just for branding and marketing for fnatic.
2012-04-09 20:49:44
and HeatoN got his own screen which is used on every major tournament l0lz

he even got his own computer line and mousepads/mouses etc

cArn was just a fnatic puppet, but he will be used now as individual PR for brands, and I think he deserves it :)
2012-04-09 23:35:15
Don't forget his own clothing at QPAD genious.
HeatoN > all in e-sport!
2012-04-10 00:09:53
lol thats cause heaton got retired early has a lotta free time.. carn was doin in the travellin and the promos in between the game :) not after he retired..

i certainly don hope to see that lame ass benQ commercials with de_cbble playing with carn and dsn as the new cast !! :D
2012-04-10 07:57:42
WHO ARE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
2012-04-09 14:58:59
carn is so damn right :D
2012-04-09 15:00:27
back in 2006 NiP with heaton/spawn was always beating fnatic so at least back then their skills were not too far off
2012-04-09 15:07:41
HeatoN 9 cpl titles > cArn achievements
HeatoN skill > all
HeatoN famous smoke trick > cArn achievements
N i P > fnatic
old SK > fnatic

Post edited 2012-04-09 15:11:58
2012-04-09 15:11:25
HeatoN famous smoke trick > cs 1.6, cs:go and cs:s combined
2012-04-09 15:16:56
xek's silent run >>>>>> HeatoN famous smoke trick
LOL
2012-04-09 15:23:29
9??? which ones? i am pretty sure he had 6 or less
2012-04-09 15:23:34
no he did have 9. want me 2 list them down for u?
2012-04-09 20:46:55
yeah why not :D
2012-04-09 20:50:08
2001: 1. CPL World Championship, 2. CPL Amsterdam, 3. CPL Berlin, 4. CPL Londres
2002: 5. CPL Summer
2003: 6. CPL Summer, 7. CPL Winter, 8. CPL Copenhagen, 9. CPL Cannes

:)

Post edited 2012-04-09 20:59:14
2012-04-09 20:58:49
smoke trick, huh!!?
In an intense 1-vs-1 situation, i would have thrown my helmet if allowed to distract an enemy, whats the big deal with the smoke :-/ Element did what anybody else would have done mate, it was just a routine round.
2012-04-09 18:34:19
but nobody have done it before that match, never
2012-04-09 18:43:38
makes any difference?
2012-04-09 20:47:59
yes it does.
2012-04-09 22:38:09
cool
2012-04-10 00:30:53
yes it does, he invented the fucking trick
2012-04-09 23:51:09
brah.. how can someone ever invent a TRICK!! he discovered it !! :)
2012-04-10 07:59:07
How do you know? :p
2012-04-10 00:22:13
so what?? Its not that nobody had done it before, rather it never happened before that way. I am sure people do have thrown smokes when they run out of Flashes, but what happened in case of Heaton only came to our notice back then.
2012-04-10 11:24:03
old schools are overrated as hell
2012-04-09 15:16:20
we support cArn !
2012-04-09 15:19:27
HeatoN >>>>>>>>>>> cArn!!!!!! >.<
2012-04-09 15:20:03
I wonder is this blog worthy? I mean copy paste carn's post in the thread which got already to big, in order to make a blog about this, wtf.... don't you guys like have better things to do?
2012-04-09 15:23:35
I respect carn but saying about heaton that he is no better than an average+ player is stupid. Also notice that he uses the 3rd person plural (they) which means that he is also talking about walle whose career ended more recently than heaton's and who was clearly a better skilled player than him.
2012-04-09 15:24:10
1on1 aim map go!!
2012-04-09 15:24:37
truth hurts
2012-04-09 15:28:28
cArn > heatoN.
If heatoN was to start a comeback, he would been blown by the level people nowadays have. Carn is right when he says that heaton has no more then average+ cs player. If you followed the stream, the only thing heaton did was to talk bullshit.. So many times he said shit like; "I would had got that guy". "that was bad, i would had done different, and won." etc.
Props to Walle. HeatoN lost most of my respect.
also, saying that heatoN was the real pioneer of cs is bullshit. Yeah, he started the smoke-flash trick. Thats it.
cArn has been the real pioneer, alongside with many others.
2012-04-09 15:36:17
+11111111111
2012-04-10 08:00:03
Saying that he was a scrub 2001 is just unfair, he started playing the day CS came out and in 2003 he played at a toplevel here in Sweden. Sure, HeatoN's was before him but cArn's time came and he developed in to a player with achievements HeatoN only could dream of being.
2012-04-09 15:36:32
Stupid thread, will cause nothing but flaming from the fans of cArn and Heaton.
2012-04-09 15:39:27
who cares
2012-04-09 15:41:39
It's like compare if Pelé was greater than Messi or stupid comparisons like that. Each one was the best in his moment, so let's just have respect for both.
2012-04-09 15:52:35
people who are posting as "WHO CARES" plz REFRAIN yourself from posting if you dont care...take out your gf instead, to a garden
2012-04-09 16:02:22
the only garden most the ppl here know is the alley side in train.. and the girl friends are cl_righthand 1 :D
2012-04-10 08:01:21
cArn is my father. love you <3
2012-04-09 16:05:27
dunno why is carn so mad, it was just fun from heaton and for me he said a pure truth...so sad to see 2 friends attacking because of 1 funny but truth note...
2012-04-09 16:05:44
how do you know they are friends?
...
2012-04-09 16:25:23
there was no issue till there was a thread on this issue..... unnecessary hate now among pro players in an already cancer attacked community
2012-04-09 16:12:38
its the ppl on hltv.org which create hate among ppl hltv is not same anymore as it was back then
2012-04-09 16:59:42
rofl.
2012-04-09 16:14:06
1on1 on aim_map
live stream with spawN and walle
2012-04-09 16:17:03
Seems legit.
2012-04-09 23:59:27
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
2012-04-12 00:37:51
today's CS is much more competitive than it was before 2006. period.
2012-04-09 16:20:24
by: zoNg
#61
This thread should be closed, its pointless.
2012-04-09 16:22:18
your defense is very weak my friend.

your defense consists of things like "carn was shitting vents on assault when heaton was king".

...
2012-04-09 16:24:32
cArn is just mad because someone said the truth, just look at fnatic right now, finally cArn is gone and fnatic seems to be on fire
when HeatoN was active, he was amazing player and he was the one leading SK (NiP) to victories, saying he is average player is just plain stupid ...
HeatoN is the legend, cArn is one of many ... sorry bro
2012-04-09 16:34:28
Carn atm, is superior to Heaton in any aspect of the Counter Strike, saying he is not is pure ignorance and fanboyism.
2012-04-09 16:38:45
cs is crappy today, just take a look at the line ups of the cpl winter 2005 or 2006. they was so many top skilled teams: Norway, asia and usa was really strong, now they are full shit. 2005 - 2008 was the best years of cs.
2012-04-09 16:52:10
da fuq are u talking about? did you watched last tournament so many top teams and close matches everywhere !
2012-04-09 17:23:41
heaton said he was not a good individual but a great ingame leader and i will always respect him and the next day someone makes a thread and ppl start talking shit dont make it a big topic
2012-04-09 16:57:51
+1
2012-04-09 17:04:40
cArn > heaton
2012-04-09 17:08:36
carn and heaton not same generation.

Does someone has uploaded the stream where Heaton and Walle comment ????????
2012-04-09 17:25:13
Do you really think you are cool using moto's quote in this situation?

Both Carn and Heaton are right:
- Carn's aim is not enough nowadays but he is still a good IGL.
- Heaton was useless when he quitted and today he probably sucks even more.
2012-04-09 17:27:04
Maybe he heard that BenQ started to think kick him and bring carn then he started to talk like this.

Post edited 2012-04-09 17:30:51
2012-04-09 17:30:21
hahaha maiby.
2012-04-09 17:40:44
cArn > HeatoN
2012-04-09 17:38:55
cArn igl!
HeatoN fragger
maybe f0rest vs HeatoN!?
of corse f0rest
2012-04-09 17:40:04
cArn would rape HeatoN anyday/anytime LMAO!
Jus to remember you guys, HeatoN ended up his career being humiliated by f0rest,cArn and fnatic. Any player of a top10 team of the current is better than HeatoN.
2012-04-09 17:46:02
Very well written.
They're both legends, HeatoN will always be the greatest for me though, he was the first.
2012-04-09 17:48:07
AND HeatoN plays 800x600 small :D:D?
2012-04-09 18:34:59
He was playing at 640x480 large for sure.
2012-04-09 23:58:31
And u forgot to mention that Heaton, without any hesitation declared "German CS Sucks". Why? Because the theory of not buying helmet against AK was supposed to be German :-/ heaton is insanely idiot person to have reached to that conclusion :-/
2012-04-09 18:36:59
true story
2012-04-10 00:53:57
DAFUQ U TALKING ABOUT? fuking BR
2012-04-09 18:39:28
carn said it.

http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=18&threadid=138090..

what up, fucking swed?
2012-04-10 00:05:35
Both are great <3
2012-04-09 18:44:13
+1 cArn !
HeatoN should be quiet !
cArn was an defensive player and how did he say "be more years in-game leader affect my individual game" !
I don't now how heaton ever play i don't want to find out !
cArn is a legend and only cuz he's defensive player shuoldn't be attacked by ex-gamers !
All saw "Wolves" at CPH [retired players] , big players like mje , what they did? Cs is changing every year more and more with new tactics , skills etc.
We can't compare "new cs era" with "old cs era" :) , different times

Post edited 2012-04-09 18:46:55
2012-04-09 18:44:21
mje himself said that he had 6hrs on steam in like past 2 years...
2012-04-09 19:04:51
Actually he said that he had this time spent on his main account and was provided with private steam accounts for the time when they were practising.
2012-04-09 21:59:55
HeatoN should keep his big mouth shut. he kept saying players were horrible when they did a little mistake and that he would do a better job himself.. lmao last time we saw HeatoN play in those showmatches with SpawN he was so horrible it wasnt even funny. even the random 12 year old that played on his team were better. he isnt, wasnt and never will be better than carn. he was the best in 2003-2004 but it was a different game back then

Post edited 2012-04-09 18:48:57
2012-04-09 18:48:19
+1 :)
2012-04-09 18:48:55
which showmatches? Link?
2012-04-12 00:04:43
no idea where to find. i think there is no demos, and there was only stream if i remember correctly, think it was on fragbite
2012-04-12 11:08:02
i think heaton said that about carn bcoz he was drunk..i mean,on the stream him and walle looked like some drunk people to me..just sayin..
2012-04-09 19:03:21
At least heaton did an ace... Just sayin

2012-04-09 19:07:44
Where did carn post this ?
2012-04-09 19:46:24
cArn should just shut up really, he makes his ego look big.
2012-04-09 20:18:29
cArn is a legend, Heaton it's overrated, in his time players were low
2012-04-09 20:31:14
bitch please... 80% of the current players was already active in the heaton time.
2012-04-09 21:55:33
yeah sure, 80%
2012-04-09 22:18:48
by: jlp
#117
Oh cmon cArn, we all like u, but its true, u are a good IGL, but ur individual skills are not in a top level.
deal with it
2012-04-09 20:45:09
Haha it amuses me to read this kind of debates. Keep going folks :p
But guess what, you are just wasting time arguing. Nothing will change :)
2012-04-09 21:15:38
awwww. i hear someone whining.

imo i think its unfair 2 compare the 2 players. HeatoN was never an in game leader so it would be foolish to compare his skill to cArn's. we all know what Emil did back in the day (i wont bother to argue with a 10 year old) but that was cause he had Potti calling the shots just the way cArn groomed f0rest to the level of a superstar!

although it is true that patrick's aim was a lot weaker than what it used to be, he can never match up to HeatoN's level aim-wise. CS is an extremely versatile game and it takes a lot more than just aim to play at the top level.

cArn is one of my favorite players and its quite disappointing to see him (one of the legends) whining cause someone of his caliber said the truth about him? i mean seriously is that how professionals act? i agree with the author: "cArn needs tougher skin"!

peace out
2012-04-09 21:17:13
Dudes, in the early years of cs when HeatoN and cArn were both active, everyone was talking about how sick HeatoN is, not carn.
2012-04-09 21:48:53
HeatoN !!
2012-04-09 21:58:08
carn
2012-04-09 22:12:01
This is ridiculous by both. First of all, they started playing at the same time, HeatoN was on top of the world with the same time spent on the game, carn was an absolute Noone. Now, of course cs today is way more skillfull and its way harder to come up with something new but for me, they both disrespected each other hard. First, carn's job is not ace'ing every round or be a brutal skilled player, but to make the team the best, and he did his job. carn talking about heaton's ace vs 4K was just ridiculous aswell, he talks about a time where heaton was the best, with the exact same time spent on the game than heaton, the diference is, carn's was a freaking Noone, again. What if heaton kept playing till today? How can you tell he was not going to be on the same level as pro players today?
2012-04-09 22:26:38
#136 altho i agree with what ur saying heatons skill level went down dramatically towards the end of his career (ironic). whether this was because other teams became better or if he simply could not play to the new ways the game was being played is sort of irrelevant because they both matter the same in terms of game skill. yes heaton was the best of his time and probably paved the way for pro cs today, which he deserves respect for - he's in the wrong here.
2012-04-10 00:07:38
heaton sucks donkey cock, deal with it
2012-04-09 22:26:59
Spawn better
2012-04-09 22:39:43
carn>heaton

Post edited 2012-04-09 23:17:19
2012-04-09 23:17:09
Both players were amazing so stop write things like:
cArn>HeatoN
/
HeatoN>cArn
That's just stupid.
2012-04-09 23:56:32
i do think carn has some ego but i agree with him. its normal that igl doesnt have great aim (just look at zeus when he was IGL and now, he was good fragger and now hes insane). i also agree with carn that heaton missed a lot and that guys (who play cs for few years now) have better understanding of the game. thats not heatons fault but the game has changed a lot since he stopped. however i do agree that heaton is a legend and idol to many cs players
2012-04-10 00:19:38
They weren't even the same type of players.
HeatoN was a fragger, cArn an IGL.

You can't compare them to eachother, they both have different qualities.

You can compare Friis to Karrigan, but you can't compare f0rest to karrigan.
They are so unlike eachother. F0rest is a great player, great aimer and OK with the awp. Karrigan is a pretty good player, nice aimer, but a monster with the awp. See the differences??!?!?!
You guys are retarded.
2012-04-10 00:27:02
cArn didn't take his comment easy
2012-04-10 00:36:20
dude, HeatoN should stay with his f-ing world of warcraft, carn's been a great player even he was IGL. Heaton was one step ahead in 1.5 and early 1.6, then he jsut retired because he couldnt compete with the new boys who just ran around and sprayed down whole teams. cArn managed to do that for another x years instead
2012-04-10 01:38:32
HeatoN lived 1.5 year together with Potti. Amazing ;D
2012-04-10 01:40:26
Dude let me tell you a couple things. If HeatoN was such a god, why don't we see topics about him every day? I mean he was a freaking GOD, right? Why carn is considered by the most of the people the best IGl ever? because HeatoN was better rhan he is??
Trust me, he wasn't. I respect HeatoN a lof for what he has done for cs but he lived in the shadow of Potti for far to long.
Hope you've changed your mind. think.
2012-04-10 01:51:41
HeatoN didn't even call. He was just madfragger. How can you compare the 2.

All I say it's amazing that HeatoN lived 1.5 together with potti to play counter-strike +10 hours a day. Like he knew he would get top.

I like both. HeatoN more because I "grew" up with him in cs.

Also amazing how much effort carn put into fnatic for such a long time.(& still does)

Post edited 2012-04-10 02:52:40
2012-04-10 02:47:49
bla bla bla uselesssssssssss!
2012-04-10 02:26:11
heaton > carn ? hahaha lol
In counter strike always is much important and better to have more brain, more intelligence than great aim.
First is the brain, then is the hand 8]
2012-04-10 02:35:18
HeatoN > cArn.

fnatic without cArn - imba.

2012-04-10 03:21:53
what a bullshit... just lucky map in the final.
2012-04-10 16:33:52
cArn thinks of himself as the greatest igl ever just because of his long time career and achivements. I say cArn wouldnt have achieved that much without does amazing player in their prime time(dsn,f0rest,gtr,archi,tentpole,ins). The succes of fnatic from 2006 to 2011 wasnt thanks to cArn. Bringing igl as an excuse of fragging less is not acceptable cause there are igl today who are highly skilled also such as taz,kuben,zeus,starix,robban and now Xizt. Even dsn was a far greater player then cArn.

All former fnatic players made cArn look good because of their greatness. What if does player were under leadership of ave(mTw) or gob b(mousesports)? Or snajdan who I consider to be best? cArn was lucky the have swedens finest players most of the time, at their prime executing his strat calls.

I'm not trying to take anything away from cArn but I believe he thinks to highly of himself and I agree with HeatoN on this.

cArn retired and karrigan joined. fnatic became top1 within a day or two. That tells us something right?

HeatoN: 9 time CPL champion and 1 WCG titel. HeatoN was ahead of his time just as much as Pele was when he won 3 World Cups. If legends such as heaton is still an inspirational or used to be for 1.6 pro active players.. then shoot me.
2012-04-10 03:23:00
and im sure heaton meant that cArn is/was shit compared to other igl skill-wise TODAY.
2012-04-10 03:28:13
If it wasn't for cArn and some other players heatons ace would still be like ubber good.
2012-04-10 06:02:56
Guy WTF YOU TALKING ABOUT?!
HEATON SUCKED SOOOOOOO MUCH HE WAS SOO TERRIBLE BEFORE LEAVING CS YOU CANT EVEN IMAGINE! And if he would continiou to play, everyone would forget that hes a legend because he would never reach even cArn's level @ this time...

So i can fully agree with cArn's opinion about this, nowadays cs is 3x more skillfull than it was before.. and to say someone like did heaton on stream that "EVEN I WOULD PLAY BETTER" or something like that is obviously stupid.
2012-04-10 06:16:34
For those of you who have missed the first part - http://jabb.im/6ow
2012-04-10 10:41:05
Dreamhack walle and heaton will stream on swedish because they know peoples will make threads about things that they say on hltv.. but on fragbite forum etc they dont i think they are a way much mature
2012-04-10 11:49:00
carn>heatbot
2012-04-10 12:33:39
ahhaha +1


Check the video omg

Post edited 2012-04-10 14:02:17
2012-04-10 14:02:04
carn is better
2012-04-10 13:47:26
walle > both
2012-04-10 16:33:26
carn mad stfu
heatoN and walle> freaking carn 2k6 playah fk of noob
2012-04-10 20:07:33
what a nice english braa
2012-04-25 20:21:39
I think heaton wanna make some cash,i used to be a huge fan but now i think he is the most fckn douchebag so far at cs scene.trying to getting famous by being a complete asshole is just bad..
2012-04-11 19:59:36
heaton = old man

i can beat them in any map, its just another conceited old player of cs.

heaton reminds me pele, he is jealous of messi.
2012-04-11 23:54:16
pele is jealous of messi?

pele >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> messi & maradona

hahaha

;)
2012-04-12 00:08:31
is that when germany drilld him another asshole in WC2010?

Post edited 2012-04-12 16:51:28
2012-04-12 16:50:04
ever single award what messi win, comes pele and say "its not better than me"

that its jealous boy. pele = oldman he cant make a free shot and hit. maradona can, messi can.

pele play in times when the football its not far competitive like now..
2012-04-12 00:16:50
Years Teams Games (goals)
1956–1974 Santos 1114 (1088)[4]
1975–1977 New York Cosmos 106 (64)[5]
Total 1220 (1152)

also,

FIFA World Cup: 1958, 1962, 1970

So, who is your God? hahahaha, peace \o

Post edited 2012-04-12 00:30:20
2012-04-12 00:29:37
the world cups doesn't count, that its a excuse for say bullshit.

i repite PELE PLAY IN TIMES WHEN THE FOOTBALL GOT A LOW LEVEL OF COMPETITION.
2012-04-12 00:36:03
thats what you think, not the real true.
2012-04-12 00:44:47
is true that pele had sex with a guy??
2012-04-12 04:38:04
Yep. How u think u born bro
2012-04-12 13:42:26
if the world cup doesnt count then why do u compare international with clubs u moron?
2012-04-12 16:52:20
saddasadss
2012-04-12 05:13:37
by: R/T
#218
carn > heaton
4sho
2012-04-12 16:22:37
heaton should think before he trash other players. not cool what he said about carn
2012-04-12 17:22:51
I signed up for this site just for this thread. Heaton > carn

Sure, whatever, there are TONS MORE cs players today who are fucking godly at the game but it was players like heaton that bought cs to another level. players like carn were sitting in their parent's basements while heaton was showing the world what it meant to be a cs pro. Sure, he has fallen off, but who doesnt when they lose motivation? You cant be a pro gamer forever, and with all the bullshit oldschool players had to deal with regarding sponsorships and shitty events, i can easily see why someone would retire. carn kept playing because he hadnt reached that level yet, and he didnt reach that level till most oldschoool players got up and left...wonder why?

element > carn for ingame leader
heaton > carn for life

2012-04-12 18:01:29
Xeqtr > carn
walle > carn
method > carn
frod > carn
volcano > carn
rambo > carn



All these players had skill way over carns level and had to play on crt monitors with shitty mice and keyboards. get real.
2012-04-12 18:04:45
whats wrong with crt monitors?theyre the best to play cs oO,and you call those american players better than carn?are u stupid or what?
2012-04-12 20:41:00
You obviously havent played this game long enough to understand that "those american players" were gods to carn in their time. They just left the game while carn kept playing, thats all
2012-04-12 21:04:10
carn played this game at the highest level ever for about 6 years and your argument is that they were gods?gods of what?
2012-04-13 01:07:38
You pretty much missed the entire argument so ill go on a limb here and assume u just misread, so ill explain it again: i was refering to your phrase calling him stupid for saying those american players are better than carn. For example, they started playing in 2000, just like carn. The difference is they were on top of the world wayyy sooner than carn, even despite theyre playing for the same lenght, therefore it pretty much means they are more gifted. Same with HeatoN argument. carn was "mocking" old times when heaton "shotted 4K guys in the back", the thing is heaton was the best player in that time, playing for the same time carn did, and carn was nowhere near his level. See where im getting with this?
2012-04-13 16:06:47
bullshit,heaton is so overated

wtf ppl talking about the "smoke flash trick"
when i did it for the first time i didnt see it from anyone,you make a single move like it was the discovery of fire,
heaton did it first,but that DOES NOT MEAN THAT OTHER PLAYERS WOULD NOT DO IT SOONER OR LATER.

i dont think that heaton brought the game to another level,at least by himself alone.

stop praising him for things that are simple.

as for carn,imo,he is OVERATED TO.

yeah ok one of the best if not the best igl,but strats are not everything in cs,just like aim is not everything either,u need a balance,neither fnatic with carn can win vs balanced teams(navi, esc for example) neither a team with aimstars like sk atm can win against balanced teams (navi esc again for example)

imo u should stop praising both of them and stop being fanboys,they are not einsteins nor genius,they just discovered things that would be discovered EITHER WAY.

period.

Post edited 2012-04-12 18:11:05
2012-04-12 18:10:01
HeatoN was the best when the level wasn't so high in CS, being a champion in this days takes much effort than before in HeatoN's time, he is a pioneer thats for sure, bcuz of him many people came to this game, I give him that, but he won't be the same if he had played in this times, this are 2 players you can't compare, it's like trying to compare Pele with Maradona, they were the best of their times, period.
2012-04-12 18:39:28
What are you talking about lol HeatoN was the best when Neo f0rest and all the superplayers from today were absolute noones, yet they were already playing the game. And why is that? Maybe because HeatoN was more gifted, makes sense, right? How can you assume HeatoN was not going to be on top players level if he kept playing? How can we know he wouldnt be better?
2012-04-12 21:01:17
heaton > carn imo
2012-04-12 18:44:42
cArn dont have aim skills, its not a madfrager like heaton. But.. its a good igl 4 sho
2012-04-12 20:27:34
cArn career > HEATON career
2012-04-12 21:03:35
HeatoN > carn
2012-04-12 21:04:47
shaguar > carn
2012-04-12 23:41:22
tbh when i heard heaton say that my jaw dropped...i couldnt believe it.
2012-04-12 23:51:50
AHAHAH "head-on" needs to stfu.....
2012-04-13 07:44:59
i > carn

Post edited 2012-04-13 07:58:40
2012-04-13 07:58:09
HeatoN was never good @ 1.6, he was good in 1.5
2012-04-13 08:32:38
HeatoN was pretty bad even in his last games, cArn in Kiev played solid, also he was among the fragleaders in new Fnatic few tournaments ago. So cArn > HeatoN in aiming, its obvious for me
2012-04-13 09:31:05
PASHA > Carn
2012-04-13 10:15:52
HeatoN is good but cArn is better
2012-04-14 18:47:54
cArn was an IGL (probably the best) but that doesn't take the fact that he wasn't as good at aiming as everyone who played at his level, so regarding that HeatoN wasn't wrong. He may have said it in a rather cocky tone, but he didn't lie.
On the other hand, HeatoN was probably the best of his time. Saying he wasn't good because it was "easier at that time" it's like saying Maradona wasn't good because soccer hadn't developed at that time (as much as it is now). The thing is you can't compare them because they are not in the same conditions (even though cArn wasn't good when HeatoN was, which should perhaps be considered).
I'm not a fan of either of them, but everyone seems to diminish HeatoN's success for no reason. Like some guy saying that everyone could have figured out the smoke trick and the spraying. Sure, no one denies that but he did it in a time he didn't have as much knowledge as there is now. It's like saying Isaac Newton is overrated because eventually someone could have figured out/discovered everything he did, as so with what Einstein did and a long list of respected scientists. We could even wait a few years and the new players would say "cArn wasn't good, we could have figured out everything he brought to the game". See my point?
Furthermore, no one knows how good or bad HeatoN could have been if he played at this time. You can't say he would be the best because he was before, and you can't say que would suck because when he played he wasn't good compared to the level CS has reached today. If he played to day he would have different conditions, probably practice more and have more knowledge of the game (some wallbangs, flashes, strats), so you can't know for sure how he would perform. We DO know that cArn wasn't good when HeatoN was at his prime, but still that doesn't mean cArn sucks or is worse than HeatoN because we all know that when he reached his prime he was great.
So to me, they both were wrong. HeatoN said cArn was bad in a cocky tone and cArn made fun of HeatoN's merits by saying he played against noobs, which wasn't nice.


2012-04-14 19:45:05
+1 for the post above, I've nothing more to say.

2012-04-17 06:44:22
sry but im on carns side here
2012-04-25 18:49:38
Great commentator Heaton! Be there! :))
2012-04-25 19:07:49
just as a commentator, please.
2012-04-25 20:07:12
I lol'd at people saying heaton is average player and was playing with noobs but really
HeatoN > carn

1.Heaton,carn and all other players started playing counter strike at once{when game has been realeased],but heaton has became pro more quickly than all others including carn at that time.that means carn,forest...and all today pros were noobs in that time

2.If HeatoN,Potti,spawn continued their career till now then they might have better skills,tactics,teamplay than wat now pros has

I hope every1 got my point :)

Ps : what i said was maybe in a noob way but i want evry1 to understand what i am saying and sry for my bad english
2012-04-25 20:05:38
I dont agree with you. You cant always be champions. Every year there will be new team on top :) Like NaVi and SK last years :)
2012-06-03 20:53:51
heaton and carn forever ,both were legends!!!!!!
2012-04-25 20:20:56
Heaton was getting laid at CPLs while carn was jerking off to his demos.
2012-04-25 21:09:38
...wtf?
2012-04-25 23:15:48
looool heaton > all

Post edited 2012-04-25 23:28:57
2012-04-25 23:28:43
SpawN-f0rest >
2012-06-03 20:29:05
#gettinglaid #CPL

Cool story bro.
2013-05-06 03:38:02
"terrible with his individual skill" what did he mean ? carn was really nice and clever with 1vsX situations, and ofc great igl. I agree, that he wasnt aim star in the end of his career. imo great igl dont need unbeliveable aim skills.

Heaton, you are the legend, but stfu about carn plz :)

Post edited 2012-06-03 20:54:25
2012-06-03 20:49:16
its pointless to talk about the skill in 2003 ..

Maybe Heaton was great then... but nowadays he wont even win against top 20 team's players...

And Carn reply was cool... U can't judge ppl by his skill and thoughts.. someone can be best aimer ever and wont win even small event !

So Heaton stfu
2012-06-03 20:52:44
2003 > 2006+ in skill

[/sarcasm]
2013-05-06 04:18:53
1v1 me carn, u can do nothing
2013-05-06 09:20:17
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