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missharvey
Was it ever going to be easy?
2012-09-18 11:55
This piece of writing is my point of view on what we are going through as communities, with the release of Counter-Strike: Global Offensive. If we are fair to VALVe and HPE, if they have been fair to us. I'll be answering my own question, throughout the whole article.
It's only a year ago we got the news that a new version of our beloved game would be released, people took it as expected, some hopeful and others in disbelief. It was released nearly a month ago, but in a beta sort of state, which VALVe also notified.
This release has got us all thinking, the game does certainly feel unfinished, whenever a bug is fixed a new one will replace it. But was it a stupid release? I'm not entirely sure, but I think it was the wisest thing to do. Considering we are talking a very possible eSports franchise.
The previous titles have been defined by it's players, more than anything, and we never knew what the games really were before players was at a very high level. The Counter-Strike and it's first younger brother Source, took a long time to define, I'm not doubting that, ever seen how awful 'skilled' players were back in the days?
The early release was the right thing to do, to get GO running and thoroughly tested. I doubt it was meant to kill the other titles competitively though. I doubt open beta would have worked any different, they just wouldn't get a profit of it. The problem with the closed beta, was that not enough players we're playing, and there wasn't really the possibility of big events.
Counter-Strike didn't have a complete competitor while it was being build. Source had and it was demolished because it couldn't compare to a complete game.
We need to create the competition before we know what this game is like, we probly also need to be a part of the competition. Have anybody really been a part of the competition at the same level as they had in their previous title? Can they compare GO to it's older brothers? Are we going to throw our chances away?
^These are questions for you, please go ahead and answer.
iPlayer out!
It's only a year ago we got the news that a new version of our beloved game would be released, people took it as expected, some hopeful and others in disbelief. It was released nearly a month ago, but in a beta sort of state, which VALVe also notified.
This release has got us all thinking, the game does certainly feel unfinished, whenever a bug is fixed a new one will replace it. But was it a stupid release? I'm not entirely sure, but I think it was the wisest thing to do. Considering we are talking a very possible eSports franchise.
The previous titles have been defined by it's players, more than anything, and we never knew what the games really were before players was at a very high level. The Counter-Strike and it's first younger brother Source, took a long time to define, I'm not doubting that, ever seen how awful 'skilled' players were back in the days?
That peak
The early release was the right thing to do, to get GO running and thoroughly tested. I doubt it was meant to kill the other titles competitively though. I doubt open beta would have worked any different, they just wouldn't get a profit of it. The problem with the closed beta, was that not enough players we're playing, and there wasn't really the possibility of big events.
Counter-Strike didn't have a complete competitor while it was being build. Source had and it was demolished because it couldn't compare to a complete game.
We need to create the competition before we know what this game is like, we probly also need to be a part of the competition. Have anybody really been a part of the competition at the same level as they had in their previous title? Can they compare GO to it's older brothers? Are we going to throw our chances away?
^These are questions for you, please go ahead and answer.
iPlayer out!
iPhone, iPod, iPad, iPlayer
don't go out, iplayer is out there :p
iPwn, iSmack.
LOL, i love that song man... Epicly funny.
there is much more competition then before for fps genres, Valve should have putted more people on the games development.
wondering how much people are working on this MOD?
It went out too early, they could have developed it more and recruited beta testers...
Cs go shouldn't be compared to his older brothers but every1 does it because it is the same name franchise.
it is like comparing New MOH games to old allied assault or cod 2 to the last ones, etc...
wondering how much people are working on this MOD?
It went out too early, they could have developed it more and recruited beta testers...
Cs go shouldn't be compared to his older brothers but every1 does it because it is the same name franchise.
it is like comparing New MOH games to old allied assault or cod 2 to the last ones, etc...
I agree with you completely. There are two ways of looking at the release of CS:GO, and i guess there are mainly two camps of opinion here; we have the ones that feel that the release of CS:GO is the Devils work. They will mainly focus on all the things the game lacks, all the flaws, all the changes, because they did not want to change in the first place.
Then we have the ones that somewhat had gotten tired of 1.6 and Source after 13 and 8 years respectively. The will of course be more open minded towards CS:GO, since they want something new. I'm not saying they are 100% pleased with the game, i know I'm not.
I also believe that an premature release was the way to go, since they also stated clearly that this was in order to better cater for the community's needs. Sort of an open beta.
The problem is that the vast majority of the general community was never reached by that statement at all and was led to believe that this is what they will get.
They have all forgotten what 1.6 and Source was before they all started playing it.
It took 1.6 four years to become 1.6 and it took Source 5 years before it got rid of the most annoying bugs.
I think Valve was a little to naive to think that the community would just get on board and help the game become what it has potential to become.
They never realized that the release of a new game would cause thousands of players to basically start a war against the game that would be the future of FPS in E-Sports. And this war was NOT an effort to make the game better, it was just a desperate effort to kill it as fast as possible using all methods at hand. Spamming forums, actively searching for anything even remotely related to CS:GO and spam some more. And if possible call anyone with a positive attitude money-whore or worse.
They will even hate me for writing this. The hate is so blind that will brush me off as yet another person on Valves pay roll. Or perhaps Sauser/cadred fanboi. Anything that will make my opinion worthless.
Hopefully, in time at least the ones that loves the FPS-scene in general and CS in particular will change their minds and actively contribute to making the game better. Like the community did back in the days of 1.0. The product of those contributions was 1.6. And that made everyone pretty satisfied.
Then we have the ones that somewhat had gotten tired of 1.6 and Source after 13 and 8 years respectively. The will of course be more open minded towards CS:GO, since they want something new. I'm not saying they are 100% pleased with the game, i know I'm not.
I also believe that an premature release was the way to go, since they also stated clearly that this was in order to better cater for the community's needs. Sort of an open beta.
The problem is that the vast majority of the general community was never reached by that statement at all and was led to believe that this is what they will get.
They have all forgotten what 1.6 and Source was before they all started playing it.
It took 1.6 four years to become 1.6 and it took Source 5 years before it got rid of the most annoying bugs.
I think Valve was a little to naive to think that the community would just get on board and help the game become what it has potential to become.
They never realized that the release of a new game would cause thousands of players to basically start a war against the game that would be the future of FPS in E-Sports. And this war was NOT an effort to make the game better, it was just a desperate effort to kill it as fast as possible using all methods at hand. Spamming forums, actively searching for anything even remotely related to CS:GO and spam some more. And if possible call anyone with a positive attitude money-whore or worse.
They will even hate me for writing this. The hate is so blind that will brush me off as yet another person on Valves pay roll. Or perhaps Sauser/cadred fanboi. Anything that will make my opinion worthless.
Hopefully, in time at least the ones that loves the FPS-scene in general and CS in particular will change their minds and actively contribute to making the game better. Like the community did back in the days of 1.0. The product of those contributions was 1.6. And that made everyone pretty satisfied.
Thanks for a great reply, I can't really add anything. I'm just happy that at least one person is pretty much on the same page :)
you are right for almost everything but
i think it is too bad it went out so early because valve knew it would be critisized if it wasn't having something new or just including the important features in it.
You can not sell a game that hasn't been tweaked enough like css did back in time; the sound localisation is bad, damage registry is bad sometimes, etc...
You realy think a proper gamer from another game is gonna like that ? nope.
Valve has the money/ Team to develop a proper MOD and they can not even do it ?
How can you trow out and sell a game when it needs still major updates ? ;(
You have so many other companies working for a year or 2-3 on a game and putting on sale with every major part of the game beeing good. (they are still updating of course for bugs)
Do not forget Cs go is a mod, you don't have a SOLO part where you need to build up a story line etc...
like i said above, i am wondering how many peeps worked on this thing ?
To test a game you can invite people to review it and find bugs called BETA testers, you do not need the community for that because those beta testers are people recruited (freely) worldwide and are gamers themselves.
You can see that on gamespot.com when they can test a game before it is coming out.
It is like that companies can get feedback of there game.
i think it is too bad it went out so early because valve knew it would be critisized if it wasn't having something new or just including the important features in it.
You can not sell a game that hasn't been tweaked enough like css did back in time; the sound localisation is bad, damage registry is bad sometimes, etc...
You realy think a proper gamer from another game is gonna like that ? nope.
Valve has the money/ Team to develop a proper MOD and they can not even do it ?
How can you trow out and sell a game when it needs still major updates ? ;(
You have so many other companies working for a year or 2-3 on a game and putting on sale with every major part of the game beeing good. (they are still updating of course for bugs)
Do not forget Cs go is a mod, you don't have a SOLO part where you need to build up a story line etc...
like i said above, i am wondering how many peeps worked on this thing ?
To test a game you can invite people to review it and find bugs called BETA testers, you do not need the community for that because those beta testers are people recruited (freely) worldwide and are gamers themselves.
You can see that on gamespot.com when they can test a game before it is coming out.
It is like that companies can get feedback of there game.
However, "to early release/unfinished product" or not. Its a vital and helpful injection pushing the Counter-Strike title forward to poleposistion as teambased FPS eSport-game were it should belong.
At this stage (especially for "diehard" onepointsixers) like you say, its a bad release concerning it still lacks that instant kind of way with simultaneous transactions both when you recieving damage [HUD] and the offensive part - instant and more clearer damage-registry to the actual playermodels. Ofc the sound also play its big role in this.
Also, the most skilled players are obviously not allowed using what the general hltv.org-user consider beautyful and slick movement-patterns in the same way or at least - not quite near equal extension to their advantage.
Thats certainly the most important individual skill (besides aim and sense of timing-experience) wich should be a clearer and bigger difference-gap between the elite to the average gamer.
So no bigger surprise the game is still disgusted in here by the general mass.
But keep in mind the core idea behind this Counter-Strike: Global Offensive is Not by making a replica of previous titles.
Some damage/-aimingtweaks to some weapons would also be a positive effect i believe.
If these things can be improved (a bit more towards "1.6:ish" style) and also with new useful features in the upcomming months along with more competitive maps - both old and remakes of them and new maps, - then i wouldnt be surprised if CS:GO will thrive for many years to come.
Suppose CS:GO will cool off next months or in begining of 2013, then a project like CSP - with its potential flexibilty to be ported across other engines (from the current source one) will be crucial to maintain an alive CS-scene at eSports largest tournamentscenes.
But CS:Promod / CS:Professional (or what it eventual will be called) have a loong, looong road of work and devotion convincing it will come out as the next huge CS eSport-game.
But at this (early) stage i still got very high hopes with CS:GO.
At this stage (especially for "diehard" onepointsixers) like you say, its a bad release concerning it still lacks that instant kind of way with simultaneous transactions both when you recieving damage [HUD] and the offensive part - instant and more clearer damage-registry to the actual playermodels. Ofc the sound also play its big role in this.
Also, the most skilled players are obviously not allowed using what the general hltv.org-user consider beautyful and slick movement-patterns in the same way or at least - not quite near equal extension to their advantage.
Thats certainly the most important individual skill (besides aim and sense of timing-experience) wich should be a clearer and bigger difference-gap between the elite to the average gamer.
So no bigger surprise the game is still disgusted in here by the general mass.
But keep in mind the core idea behind this Counter-Strike: Global Offensive is Not by making a replica of previous titles.
Some damage/-aimingtweaks to some weapons would also be a positive effect i believe.
If these things can be improved (a bit more towards "1.6:ish" style) and also with new useful features in the upcomming months along with more competitive maps - both old and remakes of them and new maps, - then i wouldnt be surprised if CS:GO will thrive for many years to come.
Suppose CS:GO will cool off next months or in begining of 2013, then a project like CSP - with its potential flexibilty to be ported across other engines (from the current source one) will be crucial to maintain an alive CS-scene at eSports largest tournamentscenes.
But CS:Promod / CS:Professional (or what it eventual will be called) have a loong, looong road of work and devotion convincing it will come out as the next huge CS eSport-game.
But at this (early) stage i still got very high hopes with CS:GO.
great read,
Brutesmaps is working on some map ports to cs go
+ other community maps
The game wouldn't succeed now i think if it would look like 1.6, well actualy i don't know but when you look all those guys playing on cod games without promod on it is...
It's like FIFA games that are going out each year, they vgot fifa 12 they are gonna go for 13 because it is supposed to be better...
cs go isn't like that of course.
Valve has it's own strategy we will see but atm it doesn't looks good, i hope the best for their game and for all the work they did too it because building a game isn't done in a day.
Brutesmaps is working on some map ports to cs go
+ other community maps
The game wouldn't succeed now i think if it would look like 1.6, well actualy i don't know but when you look all those guys playing on cod games without promod on it is...
It's like FIFA games that are going out each year, they vgot fifa 12 they are gonna go for 13 because it is supposed to be better...
cs go isn't like that of course.
Valve has it's own strategy we will see but atm it doesn't looks good, i hope the best for their game and for all the work they did too it because building a game isn't done in a day.
Headshot...
Stop being a patronising twat.
It's not a black and white situation. There's a substantial number of people out there who don't care enough to love/hate GO for the sole reason that it is a drop-dead average title.
It's a computer game we're talking about, not a fucking civil war.
It's not a black and white situation. There's a substantial number of people out there who don't care enough to love/hate GO for the sole reason that it is a drop-dead average title.
It's a computer game we're talking about, not a fucking civil war.
Hopefully, in time at least the ones that loves the FPS- scene in general and CS in particular will change their minds and actively contribute to making the game better.
Apparently, you have a different definition of 'CS' with most people who've been defending 1.6 like crazy. And I don't think that most of these guys care about a fucking eSports, not even an FPS gaming scene; they only care about a game which feels right to them, and unfortunately it's not CS:GO at the moment.
1.6's still the king!
Apparently, you have a different definition of 'CS' with most people who've been defending 1.6 like crazy. And I don't think that most of these guys care about a fucking eSports, not even an FPS gaming scene; they only care about a game which feels right to them, and unfortunately it's not CS:GO at the moment.
1.6's still the king!
"Apparently, you have a different definition of 'CS' with most people who've been defending 1.6 like crazy. And I don't think that most of these guys care about a fucking eSports, not even an FPS gaming scene; they only care about a game which feels right to them, and unfortunately it's not CS:GO at the moment.
1.6's still the king!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mflO7nJS2A
1.6's still the king!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mflO7nJS2A
i dont think i ever read a better post around here.. kuddos my friend, well said..
Lol the video ... :DD
Depends on your thoughts about CS:GO.
As a semi-pro 1.6 player, firstly (before release, on beta) I was thinking that game's gonna fail, because I didn't like it. It was completely different game compared to 1.6 - different models, graphics and of course recoil.
Then I bought the full version (pre-ordered) and played 2 hours in a day. I've started to feel that I'm loving and getting used to it.
And now I love this game more than 1.6
Yesterday I connected to 1.6 server for fun and it was really boring. Game looks very bad after GLobal Offensive.
So 1.6 never will be back
Post edited 2012-09-18 13:17:54
As a semi-pro 1.6 player, firstly (before release, on beta) I was thinking that game's gonna fail, because I didn't like it. It was completely different game compared to 1.6 - different models, graphics and of course recoil.
Then I bought the full version (pre-ordered) and played 2 hours in a day. I've started to feel that I'm loving and getting used to it.
And now I love this game more than 1.6
Yesterday I connected to 1.6 server for fun and it was really boring. Game looks very bad after GLobal Offensive.
So 1.6 never will be back
Post edited 2012-09-18 13:17:54
The number of people testing it was never the problem, we already pointed out the things that are bad months ago, they just don't care.
Saw this on cadred, still have no idea what you are trying to say. Keep to the basics, you're obviously trying way too hard and nothing makes sense.
omg another cry video. -.-
cs 1.6 is dead, just grow up
cs 1.6 is dead, just grow up
Great blog! Hadn`t tought about this way of looking at this cs:go fuss. :)
Anyway http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXEhD1MxSGw
Anyway http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXEhD1MxSGw
So, after all the experience they had with the whole CS series (19 betas, 7 versions, plus CZ, CSS and all their betas and versions), they still need that much time to understand what works and what doesn't, what we like and what we don't like? It was about time for them to realize that what made 1.5/1.6 a huge success was -the awesome gameplay-, that's why it lasted so much, and that's why it still one of the most played games on Steam after many, many years. They just replaced gameplay and clean maps with good graphics and very 'polluted' maps.
And what's the point of posting the video of 'pros' playing 1.1? You can't compare Valve and players experience back then to what it is now. We don't have to live this all over and over again, we already know how to play, and Valve supposedly should know how to improve their game, but they obviously don't know, since they released CSS after 1.6 and CS:GO after CSS. After so many mistakes, I don't have any faith in Valve anymore, they can't see very clear things. They keep doing the mistakes in every new version after 1.6, and not just that, they keep adding new stuff that just makes their new games worse and worse.
Post edited 2012-09-18 20:39:30
And what's the point of posting the video of 'pros' playing 1.1? You can't compare Valve and players experience back then to what it is now. We don't have to live this all over and over again, we already know how to play, and Valve supposedly should know how to improve their game, but they obviously don't know, since they released CSS after 1.6 and CS:GO after CSS. After so many mistakes, I don't have any faith in Valve anymore, they can't see very clear things. They keep doing the mistakes in every new version after 1.6, and not just that, they keep adding new stuff that just makes their new games worse and worse.
Post edited 2012-09-18 20:39:30
Well if you followed developers and how they work, you'd know why it's like this. A developer always have their own wishes and ideas of how the game should work. They might not be right, but they'll need confirmation if it's right or not.
Developer the word it self explains what kind of company or person it is. They are not going to create the same thing twice, they'll want to improve and be original.
The process to get through this is hard work, thinking and a lot of testing. In the end time consuming.
@cs 1.1 video: It's more of a "don't forget" side note.
Post edited 2012-09-18 21:25:04
Developer the word it self explains what kind of company or person it is. They are not going to create the same thing twice, they'll want to improve and be original.
The process to get through this is hard work, thinking and a lot of testing. In the end time consuming.
@cs 1.1 video: It's more of a "don't forget" side note.
Post edited 2012-09-18 21:25:04
If something new is to be launched, it should be better than the previous versions, else why bother with it, and clearly cs:go failed to meet what it was expected.
#29 would fit as an answer to here as well.
not really, that just means the devs didn't do their homework before starting the project, u don't see good companies making the same old mistakes years ago like lack of character control, using of static structures on growing fields, etc. the same way devs on cs:go should have covered previous mistakes that source had but they're still replicating them
Screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/HDfl4
Download de_dust2_ce_b1: http://www.speedyshare.com/Hz8qV/de-dust2-ce-b1.bs..
Download de_inferno_ce_b1: http://www.speedyshare.com/UuqFd/de-inferno-ce-b1...
check those maps out made by revoX, everyone should start playing these
Post edited 2012-09-20 03:10:00
Download de_dust2_ce_b1: http://www.speedyshare.com/Hz8qV/de-dust2-ce-b1.bs..
Download de_inferno_ce_b1: http://www.speedyshare.com/UuqFd/de-inferno-ce-b1...
check those maps out made by revoX, everyone should start playing these
Post edited 2012-09-20 03:10:00
I think dust2 is a bit to much, I prefer aciDs version.
But that inf is boss! I like the rotate shortcut though. Actually one of the best parts of the map, is the balance between taking a site and recapture it.
Definitely a good mapper with a great mind. But those 2 maps barely needs changes, just get rid of cars, and remove 2 pillars on banana..
But that inf is boss! I like the rotate shortcut though. Actually one of the best parts of the map, is the balance between taking a site and recapture it.
Definitely a good mapper with a great mind. But those 2 maps barely needs changes, just get rid of cars, and remove 2 pillars on banana..
cs:go not good recoil rely bed and move bed 1.6 good shoot and is good in a lot things and hes wallabgns but this problem alot
Post edited 2012-09-22 23:02:51
Post edited 2012-09-22 23:02:51
source had the CGS :D
You admitted source was a failure
but cs:go is way to similar to css
Post edited 2012-09-25 14:34:13
You admitted source was a failure
but cs:go is way to similar to css
Post edited 2012-09-25 14:34:13
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