Fnatic FragOut League Season 2
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moxierawr
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carn
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to cArn (IGL discussion)
I was looking at M5 demos... Their IGL is ED1K and he is an amazing fragger. Monster deagle, monster riffles and monster awp. I was thinking, maybe thats one of the reasons M5 is ranked top4/5 in the world these days? I mean, they even beated NAVI in BO3. Thats hard, think about it. mTw with trace and zonic NEVER did that.
So, I was wondering about the importance of an IGL that is also a mad fragger these day. When I look at the top5 teams, I find this:
- NAVI - zeus / starix are IGL and great fraggers
- ESC - TaZ is IGL and an amazing fragger
- SK - RobbaN really stepped up, he is usually top 1-3 best fragger in SK these days, just whatch recent demos.
- M5 - ED1K is AWESOME with every weapon and he is a mad fragger.
Even if you look into other top teams, like mouz, the patter is still the same. gob b is a great fragger. lurppis is also a great fragger, etc...
When I look at fnatic, I see that cArn is way way way inferior to those other top IGL, aim wise. It would be fair to call all of those IGL (zeus, starix, taz, robban (recently), ed1k, gob b, lurppis, etc) great fraggers too, but I think nobody here would call cArn a fragger.
So, my point is, fnatic is really different from most top teams these days, because fnatic doesn't have an IGL that is also a fragger.
Now, here is the discussion. Do you think that cArn's ability as IGL can compensate for his lack of skill / fragging these days, and fnatic can still be top1 these days? Or do you think its very very unlikely for a team to reach the top1 spot these days with only 4 players fragging?
So, I was wondering about the importance of an IGL that is also a mad fragger these day. When I look at the top5 teams, I find this:
- NAVI - zeus / starix are IGL and great fraggers
- ESC - TaZ is IGL and an amazing fragger
- SK - RobbaN really stepped up, he is usually top 1-3 best fragger in SK these days, just whatch recent demos.
- M5 - ED1K is AWESOME with every weapon and he is a mad fragger.
Even if you look into other top teams, like mouz, the patter is still the same. gob b is a great fragger. lurppis is also a great fragger, etc...
When I look at fnatic, I see that cArn is way way way inferior to those other top IGL, aim wise. It would be fair to call all of those IGL (zeus, starix, taz, robban (recently), ed1k, gob b, lurppis, etc) great fraggers too, but I think nobody here would call cArn a fragger.
So, my point is, fnatic is really different from most top teams these days, because fnatic doesn't have an IGL that is also a fragger.
Now, here is the discussion. Do you think that cArn's ability as IGL can compensate for his lack of skill / fragging these days, and fnatic can still be top1 these days? Or do you think its very very unlikely for a team to reach the top1 spot these days with only 4 players fragging?
guys, we have a new Durden
2012-03-01 14:45:22
grow up ffs
2012-03-01 18:18:19
m5=spray and pray nothing to do with igl skills
2012-03-01 18:26:35
just watch MSI Beat It Russia final, M5 vs fnatic, especially both first rounds on train and forge and you'll perhaps realise that in both cases M5 outplayed fnatic tactically
2012-03-01 19:11:03
i don't watch poor matches
2012-03-02 20:00:50
yes. deagle spray :-D
2012-03-01 19:32:07
rly? are you saying that carn is a good frager? I don't know, but for some reason the only pro player who can't be judged and etc. is cArn. Strange huh?
2012-03-01 18:58:21
No.
cArn's IGL abillity CAN'T compensate his lack of skill if you compare him with any other IGL from the other top teams.
Btw nice read :)
cArn's IGL abillity CAN'T compensate his lack of skill if you compare him with any other IGL from the other top teams.
Btw nice read :)
2012-03-01 14:46:02
TaZ ISNT A FUCKING IGL, he's the captain, KUBEN IS THE IGL.
2012-03-01 14:46:12
ESC often change our igl kuben/TaZ sometimes even neo take this role ;)
2012-03-01 15:27:21
kuben made most strategies but they often change IGL, i know for sure that both kuben and taz were IGLs for a long time, i dunno who is igl now, they don't really inform us
Post edited 2012-03-01 16:33:32
Post edited 2012-03-01 16:33:32
2012-03-01 16:31:57
TaZ was the IGL 'till 2010 or 2011 not really sure. now kuben makes the calls.
Post edited 2012-03-01 17:18:24
Post edited 2012-03-01 17:18:24
2012-03-01 17:17:40
idiot -.- KUBEN IS IGL SINCE FRAG EXECUTORS = SINCE 2010
2012-03-01 20:34:43
learn english
2012-03-01 22:09:07
looks like perfect english to me
2012-03-02 02:32:51
I'm not talking about what he said, I'm talking about what he understood from my sentence.
Post edited 2012-03-02 02:54:29
Post edited 2012-03-02 02:54:29
2012-03-02 02:53:26
what you gonna reply to #266? i wonder
2012-03-02 14:19:01
was going to say the same when I read this, but thanks for beating me to it.
still his point stands, kuben is also a great fragger for an IGL.
carn is too hot and cold in recent years for fnatic to be a consistent topteam. but it's not like there are fragging IGLs up for grabs at every streetcorner. who is to say that pronax, threat or jumpy or any other swedish igl (besides SK igl) will frag in fnatic?
ninja was an amazing fragging IGL in a german top3 team. when he joined mouz, he could not frag anymore. I could see a same scenario for any swedish IGL who doesn't have experience as IGL in a top10 world team at least.
Although I must say I have always been wondering how it would have worked out if fnatic did not drop threat, but carn, back in 2010.
still his point stands, kuben is also a great fragger for an IGL.
carn is too hot and cold in recent years for fnatic to be a consistent topteam. but it's not like there are fragging IGLs up for grabs at every streetcorner. who is to say that pronax, threat or jumpy or any other swedish igl (besides SK igl) will frag in fnatic?
ninja was an amazing fragging IGL in a german top3 team. when he joined mouz, he could not frag anymore. I could see a same scenario for any swedish IGL who doesn't have experience as IGL in a top10 world team at least.
Although I must say I have always been wondering how it would have worked out if fnatic did not drop threat, but carn, back in 2010.
2012-03-01 18:30:27
kuben is NOT a great fragger
2012-03-02 11:30:13
not even for igl you think? :> he may not frag like edik but he is close to guys like gob_b
2012-03-02 16:38:57
cArn = fnatic, close thread
2012-03-01 14:46:18
that's why they're bad.
This is Counter-Strike. Not Starcraft or DotA. You should be fragger even if you're igl.
Maybe he's too old. (27 years old).
This is Counter-Strike. Not Starcraft or DotA. You should be fragger even if you're igl.
Maybe he's too old. (27 years old).
2012-03-01 15:27:19
They're bad? 1st IEM Europe, 1st DH Winter and 1st IEM China last year, and now they're even better on paper with moddii in the lineup.
2012-03-01 15:40:51
moddhi is insane, true.
but pita is usually underrated, only few people saw his true worth.
but pita is usually underrated, only few people saw his true worth.
2012-03-01 18:31:28
IEM Europe was more than a year ago, at IEM China there was no top teams. The only major recent victory is DreamHack, where they didn't face neither SK nor Na`Vi
2012-03-01 19:13:02
since when starcraft got igl? and Dota is far more complex game so cant compare dota leadership and cs leadership
2012-03-01 18:41:26
CS isn't strategy game. That's the point.
Look all in-game leaders. All of them can frag really good. but what about carn? Did anyone see difference of being best igl from him?
Post edited 2012-03-01 19:07:44
Look all in-game leaders. All of them can frag really good. but what about carn? Did anyone see difference of being best igl from him?
Post edited 2012-03-01 19:07:44
2012-03-01 19:05:23
well, in dota captains shouldn't just call strats feeding enemies, it's even more difficult there to be a captain there than it CS
2012-03-01 19:15:21
"CS isn't a strategy game"...?
rofl you shouldn't even try posting insightful comments anymore
Post edited 2012-03-02 02:34:44
rofl you shouldn't even try posting insightful comments anymore
Post edited 2012-03-02 02:34:44
2012-03-02 02:34:26
here we go again ..... carn is doing well!!!
------------- thread closed --------------------
Post edited 2012-03-01 14:51:23
------------- thread closed --------------------
Post edited 2012-03-01 14:51:23
2012-03-01 14:49:41
Well, a couple of things: (my opinion]
-imo, with the Colt cArn has a decent aim skill. [4example he hold inner site @train by himself]
-Taz isnt ESC igl, Kuben is.
-Edik is a great madfragger, but i dont see a "great igl", its more like moscow5 like to play without strats and that surprises the rivals.
-lurppis isnt a great fragger, he is like cArn, a really good igl.
-Agree with gob b, he has great ability as igl and is a good fragger, one of my favourite players =D
But yes, if cArn would hit more shots, fnatic maybe can be the top 1 team, but lets wait to iem and see what happens
-imo, with the Colt cArn has a decent aim skill. [4example he hold inner site @train by himself]
-Taz isnt ESC igl, Kuben is.
-Edik is a great madfragger, but i dont see a "great igl", its more like moscow5 like to play without strats and that surprises the rivals.
-lurppis isnt a great fragger, he is like cArn, a really good igl.
-Agree with gob b, he has great ability as igl and is a good fragger, one of my favourite players =D
But yes, if cArn would hit more shots, fnatic maybe can be the top 1 team, but lets wait to iem and see what happens
2012-03-01 14:50:01
Did you actually checked lurppis stats in the last months? You'll be surprised :)
2012-03-01 16:22:26
too right on m5, they are not a top5 team, they should be considered top8, as they are hot n cold. Mostly thanks to the fact that their IGL does frag alot, but doesn´t worry too much about advanced tacs, antistratting and midround decision making.
2012-03-01 18:33:10
advanced tacs? I rarely see an european team using advanced tacs, it's mostly asian teams which have very good strats, but they don't achieve anything. Every team on t side are using default strats most of the rounds. Infrequently we see strats where everyone knows their roles precisely, so I don't think that your blame on ed1k's leading is smart. I mean they use a lot of fakes and most of their strats are executed pretty well.
2012-03-01 19:11:21
yes they have a solid tacbook, but I meant he doesn't worry too much about midround decision making. he calls the shots at the beginning of the round, and then just focuses on his own play until he dies. it may also help that he doesn't shy back from trying to entry frag/play aggressively. after he died he can watch his teammates screens and try to coach them still, or make calls.
perhaps carn should try this trick aswell, rather than holding back for the flank/clutch situations.
perhaps carn should try this trick aswell, rather than holding back for the flank/clutch situations.
2012-03-01 19:19:00
Zeus, especially starix incline more to a defensive style while Edward and ceh9 are more advanced in front line.
I dont see it is necessary for an IGL to also be a fragger. Look at football for an example, a good captain does not necessarily need to score lots of goals.
I dont see it is necessary for an IGL to also be a fragger. Look at football for an example, a good captain does not necessarily need to score lots of goals.
2012-03-01 14:50:14
football = cs 1.6
2012-03-01 17:22:11
I know what you mean, and I have to laugh and agree at/with your comment =D but he does have a point, sort of.
2012-03-01 19:20:03
Same rule, CS is a game of team play like any other sports regardless of how many people. There is a similar topic that says ceh9 should be kicked out of NaVi --> ppl just consider lowest K/D player in team performs poorly.
2012-03-02 14:34:45
but captain in football it's not like IGL in CS
2012-03-02 15:45:02
You made a big mistake here. If coaches played football with their teams then I would agree with your example
2012-03-01 19:12:53
coach = igl
2012-03-02 16:16:46
Exactly. Captains in football don't make any tactical decisions. Coaches do that stuff, so your statement is stupid
2012-03-02 16:30:52
"your statement is stupid" --> scared of you now
igl = 1/2 captain + 1/2 coach (coaches dont play games)
igl = 1/2 captain + 1/2 coach (coaches dont play games)
2012-03-02 16:43:56
This makes no sense. In football coach isn't playing, but the captain is. And captain doesn't make any tactical decisions. Captain isn't the brain in football or any other sport. He's like inspiration, to the other players. "Look at football for an example, a good captain does not necessarily need to score lots of goals". Yes, I agree with you on that. Some captains are defenders, there is almost no chance of scoring a goal for them, but they are useful to their teams in other areas. Football teams don't think like : "Oh, look he's a good captain. We need him." . The most important thing is the player's individual abilities. In cs it's a different story. "Coach" and captain is usually the same person and he is playing with the team. How dumb can you be to not understand simple facts like these?
2012-03-02 17:42:33
Except the fact that you told my statement is stupid and I'm dumb, your reasoning is nice anyways. One thing, "The most important thing is the player's individual abilities." Think it twice, how ... you are when you do not understand that in sports, individual ability is NOT the most important.
2012-03-02 18:12:37
How is that not the most important thing? People devote their lives to sports and only few of them (the ones who are strongest individually) succeed. It doesn't help if you are a teamplayer, genuine, kind, generous and etc. There are only few exceptions where the teamplay is the most important thing (rowing, dancing and etc.)
2012-03-02 18:36:09
cArn is a teamplayer and he wins everything
2012-03-03 06:15:43
M5 has no strats at all (c) M5 close thread
2012-03-01 14:50:51
they have pistol strats :D
2012-03-01 17:22:42
maybe they have fungather strats? Like..I don't know, midround calls etc..?
2012-03-02 09:27:26
this came up in the aim vs smart thread. what he lacks in aim he makes up for in experience, wisdom, and reading opponents.
2012-03-01 14:51:45
cArn is really low when it comes to aim... Just download demos...
Every time some nmy pops in his screen, we spray and pray, and usually miss and die. He simply can't tap 2 bullets and headshot people with consistency. Its just a fact that he has low aim skill. He is a good IGL, but I don't think it enough these days to be #1, no.
Every time some nmy pops in his screen, we spray and pray, and usually miss and die. He simply can't tap 2 bullets and headshot people with consistency. Its just a fact that he has low aim skill. He is a good IGL, but I don't think it enough these days to be #1, no.
2012-03-01 14:55:13
really low? did you see his sick shots in dreamhack? lol
2012-03-01 14:57:45
I think your definition of madfragger is wrong.
Ed1k, gob b, kuben, lurppis, zeus, robban are not madfraggers
Get_right, f0rest, moddii, edward and neo etc are madfraggers
Ed1k, gob b, kuben, lurppis, zeus, robban are not madfraggers
Get_right, f0rest, moddii, edward and neo etc are madfraggers
2012-03-01 14:57:44
LOL you have some fucked up definition of madfragger.
You just listed the best players / fraggers in the world, and you think only those names are "madfraggers"?
That is just the top of the madfragger list. It doesn't mean that ED1K, zeus, gob b are not madfraggers, its just that they are not as good as the very top madfraggers.
You must be retard to NOT call ED1K, zeus, gob b madfraggers...
You just listed the best players / fraggers in the world, and you think only those names are "madfraggers"?
That is just the top of the madfragger list. It doesn't mean that ED1K, zeus, gob b are not madfraggers, its just that they are not as good as the very top madfraggers.
You must be retard to NOT call ED1K, zeus, gob b madfraggers...
2012-03-01 15:01:27
i actually think he's right. by your definition you're calling every cs player a madfragger. either a lousy madfragger or a top madfragger
2012-03-02 10:55:40
ED1K = cl_tactics 0, even when xek did an interview with Thorin @ SK-Gaming he said that they don't use any tactics.
2012-03-01 14:58:54
maybe you are proving the op's point?
M5 beated fnatic in the recent matchs (even BO3), so if M5 has no tatics and fnatic has tatics (carn), I guess its more important to have 5 fraggers than 4 fraggers and 1 tactic guy, because M5 is really beating fnatic recently. Looks like you are proving the op is right.
M5 beated fnatic in the recent matchs (even BO3), so if M5 has no tatics and fnatic has tatics (carn), I guess its more important to have 5 fraggers than 4 fraggers and 1 tactic guy, because M5 is really beating fnatic recently. Looks like you are proving the op is right.
2012-03-01 15:05:03
So where is M5, and where is Fnatic? How many tournametns have they won? (M5) They always play like a mix team, and the most of time they end near the group stages.
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=28&&offset=0&a..
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=28&&offset=0&a..
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=28&&offset=0&a..
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=28&&offset=25&..
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=28&&offset=25&..
M5 2-3 Fnatic (new line up with friis).
So it's more important to have 1 tactic guy, because Fnatic still has advantage.
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=28&&offset=0&a..
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=28&&offset=0&a..
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=28&&offset=0&a..
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=28&&offset=25&..
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=28&&offset=25&..
M5 2-3 Fnatic (new line up with friis).
So it's more important to have 1 tactic guy, because Fnatic still has advantage.
2012-03-01 15:33:49
Sorry but M5 won 2 BO3 (2-0) and fnatic won 3 single maps.
You can't say its 3-2 to fnatic. Its like saying its 4-3 to M5 in map count.
We all know BO3 is the better measure for which team is better.
You can't say its 3-2 to fnatic. Its like saying its 4-3 to M5 in map count.
We all know BO3 is the better measure for which team is better.
2012-03-01 15:38:00
Yeap. it's a better way, but fnatic still has 3 win, and 2 loss.
And now there have moddi, instead of pita.
And now there have moddi, instead of pita.
2012-03-01 16:08:13
If you insist on that nonsense, then I can insist that M5 won 4 maps and fnatic won 3 maps, so M5 > fnatic.
2012-03-01 16:11:23
No, you can't. Cause fnatic also won 4 maps (look at the stats 1 more time). They both won 4 maps, but fnatic has 3 wins, when M5 only 2. Take it right :D
2012-03-01 16:38:12
those 5 matches are from 2 lan events and 1 online qualifier
fnatic won in the online qualifier
fnatic won both of the bo1 group matches at both lan tours at which they later lost to M5, once in the final, once in the battle for 3rd place....so I'd say M5 has done better so far
fnatic won in the online qualifier
fnatic won both of the bo1 group matches at both lan tours at which they later lost to M5, once in the final, once in the battle for 3rd place....so I'd say M5 has done better so far
2012-03-02 01:20:40
sure. what did m5 win last year?
2012-03-02 16:03:26
+1
2012-03-03 06:18:51
What is wrong with DENMARK?
First Tyler Durden, now DONADEIN? Always from DENMARK?
Whats wrong with people in DENMARK?
First Tyler Durden, now DONADEIN? Always from DENMARK?
Whats wrong with people in DENMARK?
2012-03-01 15:07:33
Just some ret*rded teenagers I guess.
2012-03-01 15:24:36
He ask a question, a pretty good question at least, it's not a big deal if we see that before, so stop called people retarded for no reason, because here, you're the retard.
2012-03-01 15:48:15
Didn't really read the topic in its full length. Just noticed "typoh" compared 'Donadein' with 'Tyler Durden', which made me come up with my statement, as 'Tyler Durden' wasn't the brighest kid.
2012-03-01 16:17:37
It's one of the only interesting topics on this website, he asks a good question about the role of a leader in game and differences of all these in the different top teams.
Tyler was just stupid, don't compare them, this guy didn't say "-cArn pls he sucks"
Tyler was just stupid, don't compare them, this guy didn't say "-cArn pls he sucks"
2012-03-01 16:01:45
cuz danish ppl in general are fucked'up in the head.
2012-03-01 17:44:03
nah not really, although recently we saw some bad examples with frisk for instance. but lets not generalise an entire nation for a few wackos ^^
2012-03-01 18:35:34
Durden wasn't danish. He just used the danish flag because of mTw.
2012-03-01 21:18:13
in ESC taz isn't IGL, kuben is(he isn't madfragger but he is very important in this team) taz neo and pasha(if he doesn't use AWP) are madfraggers
Post edited 2012-03-01 15:09:18
Post edited 2012-03-01 15:09:18
2012-03-01 15:08:45
WOW! Polish guy with <3 Zeus, I'm = o_O :D
2012-03-01 16:11:34
so u must be blind :) U can see some normal polish users here who loves other gamers, or u just looked at polish trolls with "<3 Neo"
2012-03-01 16:15:39
NEO > polish trolls, Pasha biceps, Poland STRONG!
2012-03-01 16:16:47
I'm always wondering why u trolls have the time to trolling? It's annoying everytime but u still do this, u don't have any responsibilities in your life or "no-life" because I guess u don't have this also, U are just a small kid..Online u can trolling but brutal life will kick your small ass, u will see if you grow up after few years
2012-03-01 16:23:12
never seem them before u
2012-03-01 16:19:26
because normal ppl from Poland do not trolling and post maybe one or two posts per month so but u could notice only trolls from my country
Post edited 2012-03-01 16:27:28
Post edited 2012-03-01 16:27:28
2012-03-01 16:26:56
Most of those trolls aren't even from Poland, they are with fake flags. It's easier to troll when you are Polish
2012-03-01 19:17:08
they are polish, they are normal but if somebody says oh f0rest's action is good or markeloff or somebody other, then they strike again with "NEO>ALL etc."
2012-03-01 21:24:09
these days x20 ftw
2012-03-01 15:11:35
IGL role is so overrated. its all about get 5 players that is good at improvising. f0rest get_right moddii xizt gux would work perfectly. get_right makes the easy calls and then the idividual preformance will make them unstoppable.
2012-03-01 15:11:59
if you had a great awper f0rest could keep his usual role. - xizt + trace/fris/karrigan (or even delpawn back :P)
2012-03-01 18:39:23
and suddenly elemeNt came in, as first guy who used tactics and he raped the world who rushed till death
2012-03-01 18:47:33
it was a total different game back then. aimwise people are so much better and the difference inbeetwen the best player and the worst pro is huge.
2012-03-01 18:49:52
Just watch him playing when he's streaming without leading his mix-team, then you guys who said that his aim sucks, will change their mind lol
2012-03-01 15:14:01
cArn knows everything about this game so shut up. He can be a mad fragger if needed.
2012-03-01 15:15:35
and still, f0rest and GTR decided that it would be better to replace cArn with a better fragging IGL (RobbaN).
I'm pretty sure f0rest and GTR knows more than you, so you shut up.
I'm pretty sure f0rest and GTR knows more than you, so you shut up.
2012-03-01 15:17:26
gtr and f0rest got their 2009 .
SK offered them more cash and more opportunities mby?
fnatic did a record winning cash in a year and they were owning 2009...
Did SK own or did any record in 2011 ? NO!
cArn is better then RobbaN as igl. and cArn can frag aswell.
SK offered them more cash and more opportunities mby?
fnatic did a record winning cash in a year and they were owning 2009...
Did SK own or did any record in 2011 ? NO!
cArn is better then RobbaN as igl. and cArn can frag aswell.
2012-03-01 15:21:36
How can you be that stupid? Thats the point here.
In 2009, it was enough to have 4 people fragging
In 2012, looks like its not enough, because CS evolved.
and SK in 2011 was WAY better than FNATIC 2011.
Post edited 2012-03-01 15:27:16
In 2009, it was enough to have 4 people fragging
In 2012, looks like its not enough, because CS evolved.
and SK in 2011 was WAY better than FNATIC 2011.
Post edited 2012-03-01 15:27:16
2012-03-01 15:24:43
SK is collecting only fraggers...
SK has the best players on paper but is it enough?
Idk even why you bothered to reply me.. you are so dumb if you try to protect them.
SK has the best players on paper but is it enough?
Idk even why you bothered to reply me.. you are so dumb if you try to protect them.
2012-03-01 15:27:24
Every team has madfraggers this days. IGLs make difference.
This is CS. Not a strategy game like dota. IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU DON'T HAVE TO FRAG IF YOU'RE IGL.
This is CS. Not a strategy game like dota. IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU DON'T HAVE TO FRAG IF YOU'RE IGL.
2012-03-01 15:30:23
nope, SK didn't offer them better, they wanted to play with f0rps former teammate and igl (begrip2004) robban.
2012-03-01 18:40:46
Actually it was dsn they didn't "like". Gtr talked about dsn being the one making too many mistakes inside the game. Even though he was quite a machine.
2012-03-01 15:30:53
When has he ever said that?
2012-03-01 16:51:05
I can't find the article/video clip where I read/heard it. But GeT_RiGhT has commented on this article - http://fnatic.com/news/9131/dsn-retires-from-Fnati.. - where he hope to meet him (dsn) one day, so that he can apologize for his bad behavior and "bad words".
It isn't really cleared out here, but I hope it would give you an idea of the whole situation.
- I'll keep looking :-)
Post edited 2012-03-01 18:15:54
It isn't really cleared out here, but I hope it would give you an idea of the whole situation.
- I'll keep looking :-)
Post edited 2012-03-01 18:15:54
2012-03-01 18:14:11
And then there is this comment from GeT_RiGhT where he comment on a question about carn & dsn: "We felt like we needed something new, we needed a new in game leader and another new player. We didn't think that dsn and cArn wanted to be separated since they've been playing together for such a long time, they are like Chip 'n' Dale."
http://www.fragbite.se/?articleID=444
The keyword here is in fact that they do not want to be "seperated" (dsn/carn), and as I recall dsn was the main reason for them to leave as they needed some new blood and not just because of carn (even though GeT_RiGhT points out "we needed a new in game leader.....".
I know how you operate satanioN, so I'm just trying to clear it out for you.
Post edited 2012-03-01 18:38:03
http://www.fragbite.se/?articleID=444
The keyword here is in fact that they do not want to be "seperated" (dsn/carn), and as I recall dsn was the main reason for them to leave as they needed some new blood and not just because of carn (even though GeT_RiGhT points out "we needed a new in game leader.....".
I know how you operate satanioN, so I'm just trying to clear it out for you.
Post edited 2012-03-01 18:38:03
2012-03-01 18:32:08
he knows everything but hes losing sorry. so u shut up. which team doesnt want a mad fragger these days. thts why they hv moddii now because a mad fragger is needed. and carn cant do it thankyou.
2012-03-01 15:48:57
he is losing cause he doesn't have fraggers... lmao LOOK BACK AT THE 2009 ! u fcking moron.
2012-03-01 17:28:02
you have a valid point here, fnatics best 3 fraggers got taken away in 2011, first f0rest and gtr, then delpan.
I think robban is a better fragging igl but carn is a better thinking IGL/decision maker, robban was just lucky to have 4 guys putting in insane work for him in 2011.
while carn also had great players, usually xizt/pita lacked the experience/monster power to stand up against duo's/trios like gtr/f0rp, starix mark edward, neo taz pasha, trace zonic minet
I think robban is a better fragging igl but carn is a better thinking IGL/decision maker, robban was just lucky to have 4 guys putting in insane work for him in 2011.
while carn also had great players, usually xizt/pita lacked the experience/monster power to stand up against duo's/trios like gtr/f0rp, starix mark edward, neo taz pasha, trace zonic minet
2012-03-01 18:45:24
why look back is now 2012. so why dun u look bk when u can jump shot with a dgl.. its not the same anymore ..move forward dude..
2012-03-01 21:18:00
no tourneys yet in 2012 that either SK or fnatic won. what the hell you on about Im talking about changes that happened only 12 months ago. and no matter how long back it happened, its still facts that carn lost his best teammates and robban gained them, and 1 year later gtr and f0rest are still top5 world and can not be replaced. so carn still shouldn't be considered a bad IGL and robban a great one suddenly. that would be narrowminded
2012-03-02 16:25:53
carn has bad aim but he has good strats
It was working till 2009/2010, but these days I don't think its enough.
It was working till 2009/2010, but these days I don't think its enough.
2012-03-01 15:19:15
kuben is IGL
2012-03-01 15:20:25
Fragging and being an IGL like carn would be a really tough job and the amateur IGL's that frag dont count any1 can say rush long/b. walk short and stuff rofl
2012-03-01 15:23:16
cArn is brainer ( best IGL )
2012-03-01 15:26:01
cArn+4 fragger's> 5 fragger's
2012-03-01 15:29:18
+1
2012-03-01 15:31:59
cArn is an old fart, he is 27 yo, whats wrong with people in HLTV.org? Stop abusing old people
2012-03-01 15:30:37
lollertroll :P stop abusing old people, but you call him fart ^^
2012-03-01 18:47:43
RobbaN is always the worst SK player when SK face a topteam (I don't care if RobbaN gets 20+ kills against lower opponents).
TaZ is not ESC IGL, starting from there...
Ed1k is a great player and can kill, but as someone else said before, Moscow Five playstyle is much more 'freedom' without any stunning tactic/structure, so...
Lurppis is like cArn, his kill ability is not so good.
And yeah, cArn should quit this game, I know he is the heart of fnatic and so on, but he is lacking them with his poor level. He is hurting fnatic even if he thinks he's not.
About gob b, you're right. In my opinion gob b is the best IGL nowadays, I remember that mousesports before cyx death, and gob b 1v5 situations against... fnatic? I can't remember his enemys... But he is an impressive killer, and don't forget that he leaded a weak ESC to an EPS finals and they even won a map against mousesports...
TaZ is not ESC IGL, starting from there...
Ed1k is a great player and can kill, but as someone else said before, Moscow Five playstyle is much more 'freedom' without any stunning tactic/structure, so...
Lurppis is like cArn, his kill ability is not so good.
And yeah, cArn should quit this game, I know he is the heart of fnatic and so on, but he is lacking them with his poor level. He is hurting fnatic even if he thinks he's not.
About gob b, you're right. In my opinion gob b is the best IGL nowadays, I remember that mousesports before cyx death, and gob b 1v5 situations against... fnatic? I can't remember his enemys... But he is an impressive killer, and don't forget that he leaded a weak ESC to an EPS finals and they even won a map against mousesports...
2012-03-01 15:37:00
Tbh if you look at demos then you can see cArn be one of the top of the scores in fnatic, but not maybe the best overall aimer.
2012-03-01 15:37:46
if ed1k can aim well he can also play agressive and try to frag. why should cArn ever risk doing that when he has sick aimers like moddii and gux who have a much higher chance of success? he should avoid fragging situations. ed1k shouldn't.
2012-03-01 15:39:46
Jesus, you don't know shit about CS.
So, CS for you is only about the start of the round, when the situation in 5 vs 5? What about 5 vs 4? 5 vs 3? 4 vs 2? 3 vs 2? etc?
Shut up kid, you are clueless.
So, CS for you is only about the start of the round, when the situation in 5 vs 5? What about 5 vs 4? 5 vs 3? 4 vs 2? 3 vs 2? etc?
Shut up kid, you are clueless.
2012-03-01 15:41:32
Alright. 5on4, 5on3, 5on2 etc. cArn is probably in the back in these situations and moddii and gux are in the front getting all the frags.
3on5 2on5 1on5. Moddi anx gux etc failed. cArn is in a fairly bad situation to win the round & get frags. by now the opponent knows where they are too and it's tricky.
makes sense to me. of course it's not always so linear but it makes a surprisingly big difference if you choose to let the others get the frags or if you go agressive even after you've done your job
See how you can make a powerful argument without looking like a douche?
Post edited 2012-03-01 16:19:10
3on5 2on5 1on5. Moddi anx gux etc failed. cArn is in a fairly bad situation to win the round & get frags. by now the opponent knows where they are too and it's tricky.
makes sense to me. of course it's not always so linear but it makes a surprisingly big difference if you choose to let the others get the frags or if you go agressive even after you've done your job
See how you can make a powerful argument without looking like a douche?
Post edited 2012-03-01 16:19:10
2012-03-01 16:17:05
No, you make no sense, you obviously don~t know CS. (do you even play the game?)
2 vs 3 as T, everybody needs to frag
2 vs 3 as CT, if you can't frag you won't be able to hold your bombsite with kills, you will either die most of the time or run like a bitch and let the bomb be planted and now things are way harder.
This is 2012, there is absolute no excuse for a PROFESSIONAL player to not frag good.
2 vs 3 as T, everybody needs to frag
2 vs 3 as CT, if you can't frag you won't be able to hold your bombsite with kills, you will either die most of the time or run like a bitch and let the bomb be planted and now things are way harder.
This is 2012, there is absolute no excuse for a PROFESSIONAL player to not frag good.
2012-03-01 16:21:29
going to ignore the trashtalk (get on my level)
of course you need to frag dear. it's cs. it still makes a big difference in statistics/rating if you play in the STYLE of carn (avoiding frags) or in the STYLE of ed1k (playing agressively)! I don't think it's fair to say that cArn can't frag rather than that fnatic relies on putting the pressure on the star players and if they fail the situation is usually lost. and hey, it works out for them pretty well, winning dhw and most matches vs m5.
of course you need to frag dear. it's cs. it still makes a big difference in statistics/rating if you play in the STYLE of carn (avoiding frags) or in the STYLE of ed1k (playing agressively)! I don't think it's fair to say that cArn can't frag rather than that fnatic relies on putting the pressure on the star players and if they fail the situation is usually lost. and hey, it works out for them pretty well, winning dhw and most matches vs m5.
2012-03-01 16:30:28
LOL
"STYLE of carn (avoiding frags)"
nigga please, this is 2012 and you are talking about a professional player avoid frags in CS. Thats fucking ridiculous. You need all players fragging and headshoting pretty much the same in this game in this days. CS evolved, that shit might have worked before but not now, not enough for top1, cArn is pretty much the only IGL these days in a top team who has such an inferior aim / fragging skills.
Read the thread again, it was about being enough for top1. No, its not. Maybe for top5 (what fnatic is these days), but not top1.
"STYLE of carn (avoiding frags)"
nigga please, this is 2012 and you are talking about a professional player avoid frags in CS. Thats fucking ridiculous. You need all players fragging and headshoting pretty much the same in this game in this days. CS evolved, that shit might have worked before but not now, not enough for top1, cArn is pretty much the only IGL these days in a top team who has such an inferior aim / fragging skills.
Read the thread again, it was about being enough for top1. No, its not. Maybe for top5 (what fnatic is these days), but not top1.
2012-03-01 16:36:36
a lot of support players/igls stay behind instead and hold the back or throw the flashes or do the faking instead of rushing up first/second. are you trying to deny that?
I don't think that replacing cArn for get_right would make fnatic any better. that is all.
I don't think that replacing cArn for get_right would make fnatic any better. that is all.
2012-03-01 16:45:03
When did I say anything about replacing carn with gtr?
You make less sense by the minute...
Its all about a good IGL that can frag pretty good being better these days than a good IGL that can't really frag. There is evidence supporting this argument, look at the top teams IGLs, they all are way better aimers than carn.
You make less sense by the minute...
Its all about a good IGL that can frag pretty good being better these days than a good IGL that can't really frag. There is evidence supporting this argument, look at the top teams IGLs, they all are way better aimers than carn.
2012-03-01 16:56:09
i'm sorry if my very simple example was too confusing for you.
fnatic won 1 of the last 3 big tournaments. I don't think thats too bad.
fnatic won 1 of the last 3 big tournaments. I don't think thats too bad.
2012-03-01 17:01:40
Looks like you simply can't read threads. Its written on the OP post and I written it to you, that we are talking about if its enough to be top1 team these days. You can ignore that, and write nonsense again, I just don't care. I don't care if you think fnatic did good or bad last year, they were def. not top1. Get a clue.
2012-03-01 17:11:43
which is why i said that replacing carn for a madfragger wouldn't make them better imo. you know,the example you didn't get. so i did answer the thread (cArn not "being able to frag" = not the reason they aren't #1)
2012-03-01 17:15:11
"replacing carn for a madfragger"
No one never said anything like that. Its about what would happen if cArn was replaced for a good IGL who is also a better fragger / madfragger.
No one never said anything like that. Its about what would happen if cArn was replaced for a good IGL who is also a better fragger / madfragger.
2012-03-01 17:21:00
alright, carn was replaced to a fluently swedish speaking ed1k. still think fnatic would be better off with carn.
Post edited 2012-03-01 17:22:16
Post edited 2012-03-01 17:22:16
2012-03-01 17:21:58
Who the hell said carn should be replaced by ed1k?
When you can show that, you will start to make sense. Looks like you just put random words out of your mouth... I can bet you are not the smartest in your class lol!
When you can show that, you will start to make sense. Looks like you just put random words out of your mouth... I can bet you are not the smartest in your class lol!
2012-03-01 17:24:40
it's like you can't add up 1+1
i'm just using examples. ed1k is an igl who frags a lot. which is why he is good for the example of a fragging igl. and you guys say that fnatic should have a fragging igl to be #1. and i'm using an example to explain that I don't agree. I just don't get if this is your way of aruging (in which case you aren't really arguing, just being childish) or if you really don't understand (and are quite dumb)
Post edited 2012-03-01 18:21:53
i'm just using examples. ed1k is an igl who frags a lot. which is why he is good for the example of a fragging igl. and you guys say that fnatic should have a fragging igl to be #1. and i'm using an example to explain that I don't agree. I just don't get if this is your way of aruging (in which case you aren't really arguing, just being childish) or if you really don't understand (and are quite dumb)
Post edited 2012-03-01 18:21:53
2012-03-01 18:21:13
I added up 1 + 1 for him below
--> http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=18&threadid=106688..
--> http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=18&threadid=106688..
2012-03-01 18:53:34
dude, what he means is there are no fragging IGLs to pick up in sweden. so the discussion/thread is pointless.
do you really think that fnatic would benefit from picking up trheat or pronax or a non swedish IGL?
Like nroth, I also think they'd be better off keeping carn. although threat has the potential to be the next robban, it would take him ages to get fnatic/himselve to the next level
do you really think that fnatic would benefit from picking up trheat or pronax or a non swedish IGL?
Like nroth, I also think they'd be better off keeping carn. although threat has the potential to be the next robban, it would take him ages to get fnatic/himselve to the next level
2012-03-01 18:53:07
pronax :D
2012-03-01 20:10:48
he is good in semitopteams, but in fnatic its a whole different ballgame :P look at the ninja transition from best german fragging igl behind gob_b to a complete and utter helpless player in mouz, until roman/gob_b took over calling, and he started playing good again.
I have a feeling pronax might have the same issues when suddenly leading a team with players like friis and gux, experienced guys with a mind of their own. he will have to get used to their style of play and tactics alot, and may not frag as hard as with his old buddies
I have a feeling pronax might have the same issues when suddenly leading a team with players like friis and gux, experienced guys with a mind of their own. he will have to get used to their style of play and tactics alot, and may not frag as hard as with his old buddies
2012-03-02 16:37:32
yes agree they better to say him in. because 1 or 2 player changes can`t do too much damage against sk navi esc..just a little bit time to unit as team and they will prove.
2012-03-02 18:17:04
indeed, they are already improving lately, if xizt can grow into fis best form I think fnatic is a potential top4 team, because gux friis and moddhi are an amazing trio, maybe just second to trios/quattros like gtr/forp/trace, starix zeus mark edz, and taz neo pasha
2012-03-02 18:49:36
hmm true.. but he is the next best thing out there after carn and robban :(
2012-03-02 22:01:55
together with threat, yeah he is :P and I may be wrong aswell, he could do great within weeks, who knows :P
2012-03-02 22:12:54
oh yeah... threats there too.. bloody world record holder! :D
2012-03-03 04:06:38
too bad snajdan quit shortly after his lions stint and jumpy never really put in the work otherwise sweden would have more topteams :P looking at all the talented players out there (keiz manne dennis barbar pita and so on) outside of a swe top3 team
2012-03-03 15:20:16
facepalm..
2012-03-02 16:09:07
"this is 2012 and you are talking about a professional player avoid frags in CS"
This clearly shows that you have no clue about professional CS at all. No IGL shoots like a madfragger because they're focusing on other things, and that's a fact. Because of this, IGL's have a passive playstyle to let their madfraggers do the headshotting.
Because of this, they won't line up as many frags, and if their team is losing that will hurt their scoreboard a lot more then the guys hunting for the frags (madfraggers).
Think about it, have you ever seen a player with an aggressive playstyle being critized by the community? Nope. It's the IGL's and the passive players who takes shit from you guys who only knows how to read a scoreboard and thinks that lowfragging = badlolomfgquitthegame.
This clearly shows that you have no clue about professional CS at all. No IGL shoots like a madfragger because they're focusing on other things, and that's a fact. Because of this, IGL's have a passive playstyle to let their madfraggers do the headshotting.
Because of this, they won't line up as many frags, and if their team is losing that will hurt their scoreboard a lot more then the guys hunting for the frags (madfraggers).
Think about it, have you ever seen a player with an aggressive playstyle being critized by the community? Nope. It's the IGL's and the passive players who takes shit from you guys who only knows how to read a scoreboard and thinks that lowfragging = badlolomfgquitthegame.
2012-03-02 11:04:46
Omg, you took the words out of my mouth. N1 !
2012-03-02 16:10:09
an army of sheep led by a lion would defeat the army of lions led by a sheep
cArn is a lion!
cArn is a lion!
2012-03-01 15:45:04
That sound great, but, i'm really not sure for the winning battle :p
2012-03-01 15:53:45
Who said this wasn't playing pc games he was conquering half of the word with his army so that means winning.
2012-03-01 19:52:42
cArn is oldschool player.
2012-03-01 15:51:09
What most people dont understand is that you use one part of your brain when you communicate and another part of your brain when you are focused on shooting people (reflexes).
You can only use one side of your brain at the same time, most people anyway, and therefore the players that communicate alot (often tacleaders) will make more aimfails etc, because they are focusing with the wrong side of the brain.
The discussion shouldn't be about carns level of play, because it would be alot higher if he wasnt tacleader (taz/ave are great examples of players who's ingame "skill"/concentration has increased when they no longer called tactics), but whether carn's calling increases the team performance enough to compensate for his personal decrease in focus when calling.
I personally believe it does. Having 5 great players isn't enough. You need a gameplan, and , and I think carn is an exellent attribute for any team who's lacking a good team leader, based on his ability to use his teammates in a proper manor, and thereby getting the best out of their potential.
Post edited 2012-03-01 16:05:32
You can only use one side of your brain at the same time, most people anyway, and therefore the players that communicate alot (often tacleaders) will make more aimfails etc, because they are focusing with the wrong side of the brain.
The discussion shouldn't be about carns level of play, because it would be alot higher if he wasnt tacleader (taz/ave are great examples of players who's ingame "skill"/concentration has increased when they no longer called tactics), but whether carn's calling increases the team performance enough to compensate for his personal decrease in focus when calling.
I personally believe it does. Having 5 great players isn't enough. You need a gameplan, and , and I think carn is an exellent attribute for any team who's lacking a good team leader, based on his ability to use his teammates in a proper manor, and thereby getting the best out of their potential.
Post edited 2012-03-01 16:05:32
2012-03-01 15:58:08
Yep. That's why Zeus just did a monster tournament last time when Starix took the IGL role.
2012-03-01 16:06:34
great post which explains why its hard for IGLs to frag a lot(at least those who communicate much with teammates)
you pretty much explained everything, all I can add is that the right side of the brain is good for aim, while left side is much worse, and you use left side to talk, so while you are communicating you are aiming with left side and as a result you have much worse aim.
you pretty much explained everything, all I can add is that the right side of the brain is good for aim, while left side is much worse, and you use left side to talk, so while you are communicating you are aiming with left side and as a result you have much worse aim.
2012-03-01 18:30:21
besides taz/ave zeus aswell
2012-03-01 18:55:05
This is true as fuck. I'm an IGL aswell (obviously not near the level of the guys we're talking about in this thread) and when i'm mixing my aim improves by 500% :P
2012-03-02 11:08:02
Totally agree with you. The point here is if there is better cArn or a IGL who frag more, and I think that there is no one who can lead like him and frag more (of swedish guys)
2012-03-03 07:48:45
Carn needs to step up. More deathmatch, more prac... He needs to improve his aim / fragging skills.
2012-03-01 16:07:26
m5 = deagles in all teh rounds = FCKIN NICE STRATS
nope
nope
2012-03-01 16:08:48
NEO > cArn, Pasha biceps, Poland Strong!
2012-03-01 16:15:32
I keep finding this amusing :D :D
2012-03-01 18:55:35
wait till big tournament and watch matches of fnatic.. That create thread as this is
2012-03-01 16:17:04
he has always been a pretty good clutcher and steps up when his team needs,
2012-03-01 16:22:23
Carn is the most overrated IGL ever. People make him look like he calls godly strats that no one knows. If you watch some demo's you can clearly see he is a average IGL. Sometime he reads the game well and sometimes he does not. But the only difference between him and another in game leader is that they have the ability to entry frag and are confident in their aim. So im trying to say CARN = DECENT IGL trashcan aim and having him replaced would make fnatic a serious contender for top 2
2012-03-01 16:27:02
+1
2012-03-01 16:27:53
overrated? decent? boy, you must be really stupid. he is on top as IGL with fnatic since 2005 or smth.
2012-03-01 16:31:57
You have absolutely no clue how much cArn impacts fnatic's play (nobody here does). If you think you can judge a IGL purely on watching a demo you obviously don't know anything about the game.
2012-03-01 16:55:36
You sure you replying to the right person? I said he is a decent IGL and you clearly think he is a god or something in terms of calling strats. Like I said 20 times , he is a decent IGL but he is overrated thats all.
2012-03-01 17:02:20
I just said nobody here has a clue how much cArn means for fnatic, so why is it clear that I think he is a god? I don't care if he is overrated or underrated but saying it is obvious from demos that he is an average IGL is nonsense.
2012-03-01 17:07:45
People call his strats amazing and his call amazing and obviously you can see if his strats are amazing from a demo. It's 2012 and playing for fnatic , getting a salary and attending top tier tournaments you have to be able to contribute with frags otherwise he can do his "contributions" from behind the 5 players.
2012-03-01 17:16:26
Sure, but it is very hard to tell what went wrong a lot of the times. He has been able to win big tournaments with lineups that most people didn't think would be able to and from our perspective it is insanely hard to judge whether or not those 4 teammates would do better with another leader.
Maybe one of his biggest strength is making his teammates better and making them make the correct decisions, I don't know. What I do know though is that ceh9 is considered the worst player in NaVi (both by the community and based on statistics) without being the ingame leader and yet they are easily the most impressive team in CS history.
starix said in a video that the community has no clue what it takes to make a team work and I agree with that statement. It isn't as simple as kicking the guys who frag the least.
Maybe one of his biggest strength is making his teammates better and making them make the correct decisions, I don't know. What I do know though is that ceh9 is considered the worst player in NaVi (both by the community and based on statistics) without being the ingame leader and yet they are easily the most impressive team in CS history.
starix said in a video that the community has no clue what it takes to make a team work and I agree with that statement. It isn't as simple as kicking the guys who frag the least.
2012-03-01 17:28:36
Yes I agree with your last 2 paragraphs and I certainly do not know what happens in a teamspeak or mumble server during a match. It would be hypocritical for me to say kick him because his aim is shit because I also believe that kick the bottom fragger is bullshit. Yes carn was awesome and was a really good IGL in his prime but I think there are other leaders now in 2012 who can do the same job if not maybe better.
2012-03-01 17:40:06
I agree that a lot has happened over the years and he has been playing very poor at times.
At the end of the day it obviously doesn't matter how much you know about the game if you can't frag, but my overall point was just to clarify that some of the most important stuff (communication, making of tactics and pregame talks) are unavailable for us and that makes it hard to fully judge a player and especially a IGL.
At the end of the day it obviously doesn't matter how much you know about the game if you can't frag, but my overall point was just to clarify that some of the most important stuff (communication, making of tactics and pregame talks) are unavailable for us and that makes it hard to fully judge a player and especially a IGL.
2012-03-01 17:44:20
you never were an igl,even in low teams,you play in a country where like 5 of semi skilled players of portugal would beat the fuck out of your teams lol,you dont understand the IGL thing and never will,simple
2012-03-01 18:37:16
But you do right?
2012-03-01 19:19:32
"nobody here does"
2012-03-01 19:31:53
But you are still defending him (kinda)
2012-03-01 19:40:17
Maybe, but I haven't really been following fnatic that closely to be honest, I just think it is easy to take a look at a demo and say "that IGL must suck, their tactics are shit".
Of course people are free to express their opinions on players even though they don't have all the information (communication etc.), but I think cArn has shown that he can win big things with lineups that don't necessarily have the superstars he used to play with.
Of course people are free to express their opinions on players even though they don't have all the information (communication etc.), but I think cArn has shown that he can win big things with lineups that don't necessarily have the superstars he used to play with.
2012-03-01 19:55:26
yes carn sucks and fails since 2005 winning titles every year and making fnatic the best team overall that cs has ever had. lets do another topic of -carn +someLOWplayerwithsuperaim.
shut up
shut up
2012-03-02 16:15:10
tactics are overrated nowadays! on t side, most of the time they play standard, some pushes and simple fakes. on ct side, the most important is the ability to read your opponent and play aggro randomly, also placing a strong awp player in different parts of the map. And thats all.
The times where we saw some complicated tactics with tricky flashes and amazing coordination, are over. Every top team nows that!
The times where we saw some complicated tactics with tricky flashes and amazing coordination, are over. Every top team nows that!
2012-03-01 16:31:07
Tactics are UNDERrated. 5 aimers would lose 16 0 everymap against 4 aimers and a good igl
2012-03-01 16:42:01
But thats not the point in this thread is it?
The point is:
4 fraggers + good IGL that can't frag < 4 fraggers + good IGL that CAN frag
The point is:
4 fraggers + good IGL that can't frag < 4 fraggers + good IGL that CAN frag
2012-03-01 16:43:37
well, i think that cArn not fraggin is more usefull than edik fragging
2012-03-01 17:19:20
lol what a bad joke bro :)
think about it this way: forget the language problems and the social fitting, then u switch cArn with ed1k! u know what u would end up with? m5 at the same level as Anexis (a good team, nothing more than that) and fnatic at the same level as SK, navi and ESC (top teams)..
think about it this way: forget the language problems and the social fitting, then u switch cArn with ed1k! u know what u would end up with? m5 at the same level as Anexis (a good team, nothing more than that) and fnatic at the same level as SK, navi and ESC (top teams)..
2012-03-01 18:24:25
oh rly?http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=181&eventid=855
oh the mighty ed1k the mighty the mighty
oh the mighty ed1k the mighty the mighty
2012-03-01 18:35:49
lol bad example, look at the only player below edik ;D
2012-03-01 18:58:06
ahahahaha epic win! :DDD
2012-03-02 06:03:53
^_^
2012-03-02 16:28:55
lol i knew it was cArn but people made ed1k like he had constant 1.30 k/d ratio or smth like that and its just not true : P
2012-03-02 12:00:19
true :P
2012-03-02 16:28:48
http://www.hltv.org/news/8006-top-20-players-of-20..
since were giving links, try this one...
since were giving links, try this one...
2012-03-01 19:29:14
you do know m5 plays purely based on frags, and ediks calls are really limited right? :p
2012-03-01 18:57:13
he made fnatic top1 in 2009 , where you at that time ? sleeping ?
2012-03-01 18:57:57
no he didnt, f0rest, get_right and gux DID!!! he's still, if he was the key for fnatic sucess, why arent they dominating like in 09? are u sleeping right now? cause SK rape fnatic every single chance they got...
2012-03-01 19:28:42
ok, but fnatic top1 in 2006 with archi dsn tentpole, then tentpole leaves and ins comes, fnatic top1 in 2007 again. If fnatic didnt success in 2011, its because pita & xizt low performances
2012-03-01 19:38:50
fnatic wasnt that dominating in 2006 and 07 as they were in 2009. and no, fnatic didnt excell in 2011 cause gt and f0rest LEFT! u cant and couldnt expect that 2 newcomers would just replace two of the best players that ever played this game. fnatic should have choosen f0rest, gt and gux over dsn and cArn, i admit that was probably the most loyal choice they could have made, sticking with their captain and long time member, but from the pov of build a WINNING team, that wasnt smart and that is why, imo ofc, they would never dominate the scene in 2011. i mean, getting raped and hummiliated all year 2010 by navi and they let go their best players? cmon. carn should have called it quits..
Post edited 2012-03-01 19:54:55
Post edited 2012-03-01 19:54:55
2012-03-01 19:54:35
Why would they prefer gtr and forest over carn and dsn ? they both made fnatic what they are now .. you gotta need to learn history ..
2012-03-01 20:04:24
i dont even have words to describe that comment.. im gonna assume ur kidding..
2012-03-01 20:31:34
have you ever seen an igl playing with DGL , while rest of his team playin with m4 or AK ? he thinks for his team , if they don't have money he drops an ak for the team and plays with pistol , does robban/starix/zeus do this ? no they don't ...
2012-03-01 20:06:56
WHAT? AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHH!!!
2012-03-01 20:32:30
its true you dumbo,cArn often drops the ak and picks up deagle when they have low money,ofcourse that robban does this aswell but not so often
2012-03-02 11:22:35
i think ur the most retarded person that ever joined this community..
2012-03-02 12:01:59
"getting raped and hummiliated all year 2010 by navi",seriously,if you have no clue about youre talking because you heard a "friend" telling you that rubbish just stfu xD
2012-03-02 11:25:01
has i said above, i think ur the most retarded person that ever joined this community
2012-03-02 12:02:46
lol grow up .. did you even knew about gtr ? forest before they were recruited by fnatic ? if carn wasn't the success for fnatic in 2009 then how come they won pretty much everything ? how come they made there tactics ? Positions ? oh wait i know , they all started to go at there favorite place and always fight to stay there just like in mixes . SK just started to succeed over fnatic last year , they haven't played in 2012 yet ..
2012-03-01 20:01:28
are u serious man? lol get_right was a HUGE HUGE player before he went to fnatic, he played for SK, NIP, Giants, i mean are u freaking serious? f0rest played with calippo and Robban before he joined fnatic, are u kidding me or u just arrived in the scene this week.
2012-03-01 20:30:39
Aswer me this.
Since 2005/2006 who is the best team overall playing Counter Strike?
Since 2005/2006 who is the best team overall playing Counter Strike?
2012-03-02 16:16:53
are you kidding me? obviously now on cs scene we have:
1-3. Sk, ESC, Na'Vi.
4-5. fnatic, m5.
6-8. mouz, Lions, winfakt
9-12. eSahara, fallen & co, Anexis, KerchNET.
13-9999999. others :X
p.s. How can you say that anexis and m5 in same lvl?! lol
p.s.s. in this ranking mouz can be in near future 4-6 with fnatic and m5.
1-3. Sk, ESC, Na'Vi.
4-5. fnatic, m5.
6-8. mouz, Lions, winfakt
9-12. eSahara, fallen & co, Anexis, KerchNET.
13-9999999. others :X
p.s. How can you say that anexis and m5 in same lvl?! lol
p.s.s. in this ranking mouz can be in near future 4-6 with fnatic and m5.
2012-03-02 06:13:12
thats exactly what i said, if u would change edik for carn, fnatic would improve and m5 would get worse..
2012-03-02 11:06:31
ahahahahahahah
2012-03-02 16:16:00
thanks god for players like carn, maybe he is not the best fragger but his IGL skills are astonishing. As a spectator i rather watch matches that involves some tactics and nice actions then soul-less war of ten robots.
Post edited 2012-03-01 16:44:34
Post edited 2012-03-01 16:44:34
2012-03-01 16:42:37
cArn destryed fnatic, since he wanted to kick get right out, everything went bad
2012-03-01 17:14:22
Get the facts right, he didnt want to kick GeT_RiGhT. GeT_RiGhT and f0rest wanted to replace DSN and cArn hasnt agreed, so GeT_RiGhT and f0rest went to SK.
2012-03-01 17:21:42
hmmmmmm, did you see the last interview for Get_RiGhT or just qoute drom another user ?
2012-03-01 17:58:24
hes right,get_right f0rest and gux wanted to bring robban and face to fnatic,Sam mathews disagreed then f0rest and gtr went to SK ,gux was left out because of past problems,cmon its all official
2012-03-01 18:34:14
rofl, everyone knows that what he said is right. youre just trolling
2012-03-02 16:18:07
cArn's mindset of the game seems like a reciept for success, cause even though he obviously is worse of a fragger compared to the other IGL's, fnatic seems to constantly mangage to win tournaments...
2012-03-01 17:20:54
I've been reading this sort of things about cArn since 2007 and he is still on top. There should be a reason for such a player who "cant frag" is on top since 2004.
2012-03-01 17:23:08
dude when his other four players are friis, GuX, MODDII, and Xizt, cArn really doesn't need to frag(like RobbaN with face, trace, f0rest, and gtr) except in clutch situations, in which i think cArn is one of the better Terrorist side IGL's in clutch situations imo
he has his moments but yes he's not a great fragger but still a great player and a current top3 ranked IGL imo along with gob b and starix/zeus
and people keep calling this guy a troll, when players on this forum(a lot of us anyway) were calling for cArn's departure before they dropped dsn and grabbed friis..and rightfully so, but now he has an amazing team, so his job is preparing them and throwing counter-flashes/pop flashes for his teammates which help them get kills..when cArn and gtr played B, cArn would always delay flash and gtr would peak and merc 2-4 guys because of cArn's TEAMPLAY(which is the most important imo)
cArn is a beast with a top3 team, no need for him to leave, considering he's a wayyyy better IGL than RobbaN and pretty much as good of fragger, once again imo :D
Post edited 2012-03-01 17:25:39
he has his moments but yes he's not a great fragger but still a great player and a current top3 ranked IGL imo along with gob b and starix/zeus
and people keep calling this guy a troll, when players on this forum(a lot of us anyway) were calling for cArn's departure before they dropped dsn and grabbed friis..and rightfully so, but now he has an amazing team, so his job is preparing them and throwing counter-flashes/pop flashes for his teammates which help them get kills..when cArn and gtr played B, cArn would always delay flash and gtr would peak and merc 2-4 guys because of cArn's TEAMPLAY(which is the most important imo)
cArn is a beast with a top3 team, no need for him to leave, considering he's a wayyyy better IGL than RobbaN and pretty much as good of fragger, once again imo :D
Post edited 2012-03-01 17:25:39
2012-03-01 17:24:12
if carn is a way better IGL than RobbaN (as you say), then why fnatic was raped by SK pretty much every time last year? Don't tell me it was the mad fraggers doing the job, because then you will just be proving that madfraggers are more important than IGL's. Please tell me.
2012-03-01 17:27:17
Yes madfraggers is like 100x more important than IGL's
.
.
2012-03-01 17:28:11
He didn't say 1 IGL is more important than the remaining 4 guys on the team.
2012-03-01 17:32:25
lol youre dumb,sk stole fnatic's players,fnatic had to adjust their lineup pretty much the WHOLE year,take example of sk in 2010 and 2009,they were pretty much changing always lineups and they were a fucking failure
2012-03-01 18:33:17
lol, so? Just because SK owned fnatic it doesn't mean that RobbaN is better than cArn. And thinking from another perspective: the guys who owned fnatic last year (GTR and forest) we're made by cArn, for some reason SK picked them up.
2012-03-01 19:02:54
LOL , fnatic were not adjusted with there lineup that is : forest gtr gux out , pita xizt delpan in , than delpan pita out manne gux in , manne out pita in .. can you win over them with so many changes ? adjusting teamplay , positions etc .. they only played when fnatic where going through changes ..wait till this year and we will see ...
2012-03-01 19:04:57
well because SK has 3 top5 players on their team in trace, gtr, and f0rest, not to mention face which is one of the best small bmb site holders there is..so even with a shitty IGL, i'm not saying RobbaN is shitty my any means, he's actually pretty amazing, and he also had the luxury to listen and watch walle all those years as the IGL(and walle is one of the best IGL's of all time, maybe the best in some folks opinions)
SK has the most talent in a team i've ever seen(they're like the Miami Heat if you watch NBA), so if RobbaN really actually fails with that lineup it's sad(which he hasn't)
so i wasn't owned lol, just stating an opinion, and i'm not an SK or fnatic fan but i do fucking respect them
and i didn't say getting frags was most important(i believe i said teamplay/chemistry is the most important), i'm just saying when you have 4 guys like SK does that are unbelievable it makes it wayyyyy easier on the IGL..they always have a chance in any match because of their pure, raw talent
Post edited 2012-03-01 20:03:03
SK has the most talent in a team i've ever seen(they're like the Miami Heat if you watch NBA), so if RobbaN really actually fails with that lineup it's sad(which he hasn't)
so i wasn't owned lol, just stating an opinion, and i'm not an SK or fnatic fan but i do fucking respect them
and i didn't say getting frags was most important(i believe i said teamplay/chemistry is the most important), i'm just saying when you have 4 guys like SK does that are unbelievable it makes it wayyyyy easier on the IGL..they always have a chance in any match because of their pure, raw talent
Post edited 2012-03-01 20:03:03
2012-03-01 19:54:17
If RobbaN was a better IGL, why haven't he dominated with SK 2011 like cArn did with fnatic 2009? :)
2012-03-02 11:12:59
LOOOL OH GOD
2012-03-02 16:19:38
I stoped reading after "lurppis is also a great fragger" TROLL!!!½
Post edited 2012-03-01 17:28:42
Post edited 2012-03-01 17:28:42
2012-03-01 17:27:29
majority of the times he dies trying to cover his teammates to get a chance to kill....... dat makes him better igl and a person who cares for the team to succeed
2012-03-01 18:16:30
the thing is that fnatic won more events than m5 ever won,close thread bye
2012-03-01 18:30:55
Personally I have had enough of the bullshit that IGL cannot frag. Have a look at starix, he topped the scoreboard both in the T side and CT side of train against SK.
When you have talented players, the role of the IGL is not that important, because you can count on your fraggers to win the round.
Thats why I think NA'VI is the best team right now....because of the freestyle role that starix plays....It allows Zeus to become pure aimer.
When you have talented players, the role of the IGL is not that important, because you can count on your fraggers to win the round.
Thats why I think NA'VI is the best team right now....because of the freestyle role that starix plays....It allows Zeus to become pure aimer.
2012-03-01 18:31:04
cArn is the best ingameleader i have ever seen, you moron.
2012-03-01 18:55:24
The aim that cArn lacks is compensated by his amazing prediction and tactical skills.
And why should he bother with his aim? He has MODDI and Xizt in the team.
And why should he bother with his aim? He has MODDI and Xizt in the team.
2012-03-01 18:59:15
anyone saying bad stuff about carn should get a clue.
I've posted a few posts in this thread with details, but can't be arsed any more.
btw this is not meant towards topic starter, who only wished to fuel a discussion/gain insight, as he posts he is not sure about which kind of IGL is more valuable.
anyhoo, you kids try lead a team where the best players get picked by the biggest competitor.
Even you non IGLs should know that whenever even just one player is switched, you start all over with tactics etc, and the IGL of the team has a harder time than before as he has to worry more about calling again.
I've posted a few posts in this thread with details, but can't be arsed any more.
btw this is not meant towards topic starter, who only wished to fuel a discussion/gain insight, as he posts he is not sure about which kind of IGL is more valuable.
anyhoo, you kids try lead a team where the best players get picked by the biggest competitor.
Even you non IGLs should know that whenever even just one player is switched, you start all over with tactics etc, and the IGL of the team has a harder time than before as he has to worry more about calling again.
2012-03-01 19:00:33
+1
2012-03-01 19:11:13
Taz was igl till 2009 then kuben for half year or so, again Taz for half year and kuben again till now, in some random matches neo calling strats sometimes ;)
kuben in 2011 was crazy killer, look how many times in major tournament he has been in top 5 rating in play offs
Post edited 2012-03-01 19:02:48
kuben in 2011 was crazy killer, look how many times in major tournament he has been in top 5 rating in play offs
Post edited 2012-03-01 19:02:48
2012-03-01 19:01:35
troll.
taz isn't igl
robban is absolutely not top 1-3 on SK. he is consistently 5th.
mTw lost to Na`Vi because Na`Vi's style directly countered mTw's both tactically and individually, trying to infer M5 is somehow better than mTw was because they have beaten Na`Vi in a bo3 is borderline retarded.
taz isn't igl
robban is absolutely not top 1-3 on SK. he is consistently 5th.
mTw lost to Na`Vi because Na`Vi's style directly countered mTw's both tactically and individually, trying to infer M5 is somehow better than mTw was because they have beaten Na`Vi in a bo3 is borderline retarded.
2012-03-01 19:23:33
I'm feeling sad for you right now donadein. 90% of people in hltv.org think that neo is and will remain the best player forever. Same goes for cArn with his In game leading. For unknown reasons everyone blames lurppis (for trolling), RobbaN, ed1k, arcadion and etc. But somehow cArn always remains untouched. If someone questions his fragging abilities there's like 500 people replying him "you have no clue", "troll" and etc. His strats aren't even special. EVERY top igl nowadays can read game, call strats which are good against their opponents and etc. (some do it better than others, but the difference isn't major). I remember when everyone in 2011 was like -arcadion +friis and etc. , but now only few people are saying that carn should leave fnatic. I don't understand why people think that way. ArcadioN is a better fragger than carn + his antistrats worked so well against many opponents. Of course, some of you will reply me saying "fnatic won more tournaments, bla bla bla" and etc., but guys just look. How many tournaments did they win since departure of f0rest and GTR? Yes, they won some, but the number has fairly decreased. pita, gux, delpan, dsn, xizt are decent fragers, but they aren't the best. I think fnatic were dominating when they had gtr, f0rest and gux, not because cArn was leading them well, but because they had the best players in the world.
IMO fnatic will keep cArn until he retires ,no matter how bad he would frag (not saying that he's really bad now). And that's pretty sad. I would be nice to see threat getting a chance in fnatic.
Post edited 2012-03-01 19:38:30
IMO fnatic will keep cArn until he retires ,no matter how bad he would frag (not saying that he's really bad now). And that's pretty sad. I would be nice to see threat getting a chance in fnatic.
Post edited 2012-03-01 19:38:30
2012-03-01 19:36:49
lol
you realy write all ? :D
you are crazy :D
you realy write all ? :D
you are crazy :D
2012-03-01 19:43:27
That's my longest post here (at least I think). Usually I wouldn't write that much, but this is a really interesting topic. I think that it would be the most interesting one, if fnatic will fail at the iem6
2012-03-01 19:47:45
i dont think ArcadioN frags much more than cArn, and i dont think that all the igls read the matches at the same level. For example, RobbaN(world class igl) the last year made a lot of mid round decisions in SK (about what site to attack, etc) that allow them to win finals and important tournaments, which imo others igl couldnt.. and yes, i have no doubt that Threat is carn successor
2012-03-01 19:47:29
threat and carn have almost the same strats and calls even Xizt said that.
2012-03-01 20:00:52
yes, thats why i said that
2012-03-01 20:07:05
cuz threat learned form carn while his stay at fnatic xD .. TEACHER
2012-03-01 20:11:31
You must be new to the scene...
2012-03-02 17:46:00
I read your post right know and all I can say to you
this is wrong what are to talking about
you cant be good IGL if you dont have good players
this is wrong what are to talking about
you cant be good IGL if you dont have good players
2012-03-01 19:57:03
Really true.
cArn could retire with dsn but i didn't he just wanted to earn more $$$
cArn could retire with dsn but i didn't he just wanted to earn more $$$
2012-03-01 19:58:15
yea right , as if after retiring he won't be able to earn more $$$
2012-03-01 20:12:51
cArn is best IGL , he is not so good in frags cuz he is not concetrated 100% on aim cuz he need to think,in my team I am IGL
you cant concentrate on aim so much cuz you need to talk so much you forggot that there is enemy
you cant concentrate on aim so much cuz you need to talk so much you forggot that there is enemy
2012-03-01 19:54:01
While you guys, the proplayers of HLTV.org, sits here and says that cArn is worthless and etc, cArn is laughing with all his tournamentwins :)
People forget quickly, didn't fnatic like win Dreamhack a few months ago? You guys press TAB on the HLTV, see's cArn in the bottom when fnatic is losing and makes the conclusion that he's horrible because of that, real clever guys.
First of all, not a single IGL has the aim of a madfragger, that's a fact, and if you say otherwise you're wrong. Because of this fact, the IGL's doesn't go in the frontline to headshot people, they often stay back with a lot more passive playstyle and leaves the fragging to their madfraggers.
If your team isn't the best team that day, you won't get a lot of frags with this playstyle. It's kinda obvious that the guys looking for the frags are gonna get more frags, right? Fnatic haven't played so good during 2011, and that hits cArn's scoreboard more than any other players scoreboards. Stop judging a player by the scoreboard.
Think about it, which players are usually the most critized by the community? The passive ones, two examples would be pita and dsn during 2011. I'm pretty sure that if SK would be a losing team RobbaN and face would'nt be too high in the scoreboard and people would whine about them.
If you understand the game, you'll see that cArn isn't bad. He's the most experienced IGL out there and probably the best aswell.
"But I don't look at the scoreboard, I watch POV's of him and see that he misses every single shot!!!1".
That's bullshit. If carn was soooo horrible that you try to make him here fnatic wouldn't win a single game.
Post edited 2012-03-01 20:04:20
People forget quickly, didn't fnatic like win Dreamhack a few months ago? You guys press TAB on the HLTV, see's cArn in the bottom when fnatic is losing and makes the conclusion that he's horrible because of that, real clever guys.
First of all, not a single IGL has the aim of a madfragger, that's a fact, and if you say otherwise you're wrong. Because of this fact, the IGL's doesn't go in the frontline to headshot people, they often stay back with a lot more passive playstyle and leaves the fragging to their madfraggers.
If your team isn't the best team that day, you won't get a lot of frags with this playstyle. It's kinda obvious that the guys looking for the frags are gonna get more frags, right? Fnatic haven't played so good during 2011, and that hits cArn's scoreboard more than any other players scoreboards. Stop judging a player by the scoreboard.
Think about it, which players are usually the most critized by the community? The passive ones, two examples would be pita and dsn during 2011. I'm pretty sure that if SK would be a losing team RobbaN and face would'nt be too high in the scoreboard and people would whine about them.
If you understand the game, you'll see that cArn isn't bad. He's the most experienced IGL out there and probably the best aswell.
"But I don't look at the scoreboard, I watch POV's of him and see that he misses every single shot!!!1".
That's bullshit. If carn was soooo horrible that you try to make him here fnatic wouldn't win a single game.
Post edited 2012-03-01 20:04:20
2012-03-01 20:00:15
rara was horrible too, but teams that he was in somehow didn't lose everything. Though I agree with you on some points.
Post edited 2012-03-01 20:07:01
Post edited 2012-03-01 20:07:01
2012-03-01 20:06:34
This is just absurd.
Best IGLs in Sweden.
pronax rating 0.98
threat rating 0.96
robban rating 1.05
and carn rating 0.98
Get a fucking clue? Only robban is a slice better at rating but i really dont think he would leave Sk (LOL). Theres no better option for fnatic. Carn is the best choice, statistic says that not a random moron opinion. Robban can frag better but its interesting how carn has the most victorious carer.
Fnatic has the best they can get. Hf trying to find something that doesn't exist in Sweden.
Best IGLs in Sweden.
pronax rating 0.98
threat rating 0.96
robban rating 1.05
and carn rating 0.98
Get a fucking clue? Only robban is a slice better at rating but i really dont think he would leave Sk (LOL). Theres no better option for fnatic. Carn is the best choice, statistic says that not a random moron opinion. Robban can frag better but its interesting how carn has the most victorious carer.
Fnatic has the best they can get. Hf trying to find something that doesn't exist in Sweden.
2012-03-01 20:28:48
Dont forget to mention:
Carn was the one who received gtr after he got kicked by SK. Interesting how walle and robban let gtr leave to fuck then one year later. Never saw robban revealing a good player like carn did. Oh wait, thats not robban role, its SK "thief" Gaming role.
Carn if ure reading this: Ignore the trolls.
Peace!
I dare someone showing facts proving im wrong
Post edited 2012-03-01 20:55:23
Carn was the one who received gtr after he got kicked by SK. Interesting how walle and robban let gtr leave to fuck then one year later. Never saw robban revealing a good player like carn did. Oh wait, thats not robban role, its SK "thief" Gaming role.
Carn if ure reading this: Ignore the trolls.
Peace!
I dare someone showing facts proving im wrong
Post edited 2012-03-01 20:55:23
2012-03-01 20:54:04
fnatic not best team because they don't have f0rest and gtr
if cArn is a bad fragger old fnatic not was fucking cool?
sry for english
if cArn is a bad fragger old fnatic not was fucking cool?
sry for english
2012-03-01 20:29:37
cArn work its be a IGl, the brain of fnatic.
Nothing else more.
thread closed (?
Nothing else more.
thread closed (?
2012-03-01 20:31:25
There is absolute nothing wrong with the OP´s post. I read it again and again, and its pretty fair. He didn't say anything unlogical, or if you ask me, wrong.
I think the HLTV.org members just enter in holocaust mode everytime there is a "discussion / debate" in this forums.
You people can't respect the other guy opinion for shit, and its always the same usual "you wrong, Im right, I know this, you don't" etc...
I think the HLTV.org members just enter in holocaust mode everytime there is a "discussion / debate" in this forums.
You people can't respect the other guy opinion for shit, and its always the same usual "you wrong, Im right, I know this, you don't" etc...
2012-03-01 20:49:43
the thing is that he tries to prove a point that doesnt make sense because he doesnt have all the data neither the information,its what in portugal we call "Posta de pescada"
2012-03-02 11:16:21
+1 topic starter basically create a trollposted either he is aware or not. look all the replies lol
2012-03-02 14:32:59
Alot of random ppl talking shit about cArn... who care BRO???
cArn = fnatic! so lets go cArn, lets go fnatic<3
cArn = fnatic! so lets go cArn, lets go fnatic<3
2012-03-01 21:07:57
i have heard that zneel is igl , is that true?
2012-03-01 21:15:58
you guys underestimate cArn so hard, watch any games and you'll realise he plays a very different role to what any other IGL does.
2012-03-01 22:17:36
You can't say that cArn have a low aim, he play focusing on his team, not on his aim, but when fnatic need him, he do his best, so please, stop creating topics like this. He could beat anyone here with his "low aim"
2012-03-02 00:42:41
Dude just an OFFTOPIC.. JAEGARN and individ pretty much revealed almost every Swedish Madfraggers from nowadays when they were at Begrip :O
- GeT_RiGhT
- face
- MODDII
- Gux
- zneel
- pita and so on
- GeT_RiGhT
- face
- MODDII
- Gux
- zneel
- pita and so on
2012-03-02 05:31:21
IGL
lurrpis = very good first-frager /rifle player
starix = second awp / good camper
robban = very good first-frager /great pistol player/second awp
cArn = clutch player
ED1K = awp/deagle/rifle = AIM
THREAT = clutch player / amazing backup player
ave = best strat caller ever (retired)
lurrpis = very good first-frager /rifle player
starix = second awp / good camper
robban = very good first-frager /great pistol player/second awp
cArn = clutch player
ED1K = awp/deagle/rifle = AIM
THREAT = clutch player / amazing backup player
ave = best strat caller ever (retired)
2012-03-02 06:23:52
Did you know HLTV.org has a massive statistics page??
cArn:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=28
RobbaN:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=2
ave:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=24
kuben:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=162
ArcadioN:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=10
THREAT:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=37
Lurppis:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=31
gob b:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=136
steno:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=212
walle:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=4
Zeus:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=484
Xp3:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=1331
ED1K:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=478
*NOTE: I left out starix because he only recently became an IGL, so his stats wont reflect that yet.
cArn:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=28
RobbaN:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=2
ave:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=24
kuben:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=162
ArcadioN:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=10
THREAT:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=37
Lurppis:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=31
gob b:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=136
steno:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=212
walle:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=4
Zeus:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=484
Xp3:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=1331
ED1K:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=173&playerid=478
*NOTE: I left out starix because he only recently became an IGL, so his stats wont reflect that yet.
2012-03-02 08:36:49
whats ur point?
2012-03-02 09:31:04
He just discovered a statistics page, that's it.
2012-03-02 09:43:21
okey so much work for nothing, well done. their fragging ability is high all of them so it doesnt matter. i would say carn is the best 1vsX of all he mentioned anyways.
Post edited 2012-03-02 09:47:13
Post edited 2012-03-02 09:47:13
2012-03-02 09:47:02
How can you say one of the best players through out time has low aim? He have made more aces than any of you on this site will ever make in official matches on lan.
He is by far - the key success with GeT_RiGhT & f0rest that fnatic had ANY success.
As often as you see cArn on the bottom of the scoreboard, just as often you see him clutching some of the hardest rounds.
He is by far one of the most consistent players ever. And dont think hes not the first guy to cross the lines when fnatic make tactics. :)
He is by far - the key success with GeT_RiGhT & f0rest that fnatic had ANY success.
As often as you see cArn on the bottom of the scoreboard, just as often you see him clutching some of the hardest rounds.
He is by far one of the most consistent players ever. And dont think hes not the first guy to cross the lines when fnatic make tactics. :)
2012-03-02 10:22:20
offtopic:
ave wasn't a madfragger but mTw rulled the world. Better IGL doesn't mean anything. The key for winning is golden five
ave wasn't a madfragger but mTw rulled the world. Better IGL doesn't mean anything. The key for winning is golden five
2012-03-02 10:25:27
I really want to see cArn in a team that has low skilled players. Then we can see that how good he can call strats against teams.
I'm the one of people that says that cArn should leave fnatic for fnatic's future. But, I'm0 saying that not bcoz lack of his aim skill, saying that because his strats dont matters when he has madfraggers.
I'm the one of people that says that cArn should leave fnatic for fnatic's future. But, I'm0 saying that not bcoz lack of his aim skill, saying that because his strats dont matters when he has madfraggers.
2012-03-02 10:50:36
ye f0rest should be in a low team aswell to see if he can frag against top teams,trolololo
2012-03-02 11:13:52
I was talking about his(cArn) strats abilities. Try to read.
Post edited 2012-03-02 14:44:52
Post edited 2012-03-02 14:44:52
2012-03-02 14:43:12
I would like to see f0rest in a team with low skilled players, then we can see how good he can shoot against real teams.
Why would cArn playing with scrubs prove anything? There's five players in a team.
Why would cArn playing with scrubs prove anything? There's five players in a team.
2012-03-02 11:15:34
I wasn't talking about f0rest as u can see up there nor cArn's frag abilities. Try to read.
2012-03-02 14:44:14
carn has never had monster players from the start, they all became much better while playing with him, like f0rest gtr gux delpan xizt pita friis. My point is that they were all not considered like the best in the world before they joined fnatic but after some time they all improved a lot playing with carn. So if you wanted him to see in a team with lower skilled players you had your chance already.
2012-03-02 17:01:45
I'm disagree with this. Every player on pro scene, has to improve himself by time. If he couldnt, he wouldnt be on pro scene.
2012-03-02 18:41:32
There is no need for cArn to be a fragger since MODDII gets enough kills for two. :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
2012-03-02 13:15:35
Just look at SK 2011 they had the best lineup by far aim-wise with robban, gtr, forest, face allen/delpan, everyone being more or less a star and they didn't dominate as navi 2010 or fnatic 09...
2012-03-02 13:40:31
i think that RobbaN is even better igl than cArn (he's just overrated) , RobbaN is normal guy doing his job - in game leadering and fraggint, cArn cant frag versus top teams, thats a point. So fnatic needs that 4other fnatic players>4other sk players if fnatic want to win the match, cuz RobbaN > cArn in overall.
2012-03-02 14:29:30
Xizt > face
moddii = forest
friis awp > trace awp
friis rifles < trace rifles
gux < gtr
carn igl > robban igl
carn frags < robban frags
moddii = forest
friis awp > trace awp
friis rifles < trace rifles
gux < gtr
carn igl > robban igl
carn frags < robban frags
2012-03-02 16:41:58
carn is just a blabla guy, with a big ego. that's it.
good @ talking
good @ talking
2012-03-02 14:36:34
The most important thing many people ignores is that cArn KNOWS HOW TO WIN.
After a decade of competitive counter-strike he shows us again and again that he is capable of turning 5 players into a TEAM. Look at how he jumps after the victory in DreamHack. He didn't stop, didn't retire when the team he - and DSN - built basically stabbed him in the back.
On the other hand... check statistics:
threat 0.98
pronax 0.96
cArn 0.98
RobbaN 1.05
Remember what Pita said after dreamhack guys. He has it.
After a decade of competitive counter-strike he shows us again and again that he is capable of turning 5 players into a TEAM. Look at how he jumps after the victory in DreamHack. He didn't stop, didn't retire when the team he - and DSN - built basically stabbed him in the back.
On the other hand... check statistics:
threat 0.98
pronax 0.96
cArn 0.98
RobbaN 1.05
Remember what Pita said after dreamhack guys. He has it.
2012-03-02 16:14:39
Carn - IGL, he dont need to fragg
Xizt - hed shots king, he can play better than forest and Gtr
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=188&matchid=9611&a..
Moddii - He is sick aimer. We all know it
Friis - awp, He owned markeloff with awp on de_train last match.
gux - sick aimer.
Fnatic is top 3
Fnatic > esc last match
Fnatic = SK = navi
Xizt - hed shots king, he can play better than forest and Gtr
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=188&matchid=9611&a..
Moddii - He is sick aimer. We all know it
Friis - awp, He owned markeloff with awp on de_train last match.
gux - sick aimer.
Fnatic is top 3
Fnatic > esc last match
Fnatic = SK = navi
2012-03-02 16:31:10
Carn is a caller! and he is the best caller right now!
2012-03-02 16:31:15
nice joke
2012-03-02 17:21:46
Ok
- carn + gux - friis + moddii - xizt + friis - gux + carn - moddii + xizt.
- carn + gux - friis + moddii - xizt + friis - gux + carn - moddii + xizt.
2012-03-02 16:49:11
that could work
2012-03-03 07:50:07
I mean, they even beated NAVI in BO3.
cute :P
cute :P
2012-03-02 16:52:11
This is not supposed to be a troll thread. If you are here to troll, please leave. I ask for admins to keep the thread clear of trolls.
Thanks,
Donadein (thread author)
Thanks,
Donadein (thread author)
2012-03-02 17:55:35
Fuck you.
Sincerely
thQ (troll)
Sincerely
thQ (troll)
2012-03-02 22:04:14
people saying ED1K is a good IGL:
all of M5 tactics were made by groove (ex VirtusPro|Konstantin.P)
this is why you see groove often sitting at LAN events behind M5.
all of M5 tactics were made by groove (ex VirtusPro|Konstantin.P)
this is why you see groove often sitting at LAN events behind M5.
2012-03-02 22:13:25
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