Molotovs & money system in CS:GO
Time: 2012-11-11 10:24
Game: Counter-Strike: Global Offensive

This article is a subjective opinion piece by staff writer Tomi "lurppis" Kovanen who explains why Molotovs need to be removed from competitive play and Valve needs to make changes to the money system.

The article does not reflect the opinion of HLTV.org or its affiliates.


Molotovs/Incendiary Grenades

Players from just about every competitive CS:GO team spoke up together a month ago when Mathias "MSL" Lauridsen from Anexis and Lukas "gla1ve" Rossander brought together an article for HLTV.org with top teams' opinions.

As things often do, this of course went unnoticed by tournaments who seemingly do not care much about the players who, may I remind you, are the centerpieces of their events.

Interestingly enough, no one in Counter-Strike 1.6's history has said the Riot Shield should have been allowed in competition. Yet, while many members of today's community might not remember, back then tournaments also refused to ban it.

First event after CS 1.6's release was CPL Copenhagen, where teams all agreed to boycott the Riot Shield, which then eventually led to its dismissal from competitive Counter-Strike.

That is what needs to happen to Molotovs.

The argument heard most often from people who are pro-Molotovs isn't actually an argument for Molotovs themselves, it's just an argument for "new" things. Surely if Molotovs added more to the game than they took away, we would hear about that too?


Glad this never became a reality in competitive CS 1.6
 

Teams and players were forced to adapt to Molotovs thanks to event organizers who decided to group together to make unified rules, which were not, and still are not followed by every league or organization. It's a step in the right direction without a doubt, but especially when making decisions that affect so many players, it's even more important to make sure the decision is correct.

We have now seen Counter-Strike: Global Offensive played both with and without Molotovs, and the difference is like night and day. And even better, the players agree, too. It really begs the question: Are event organizers too proud to admit they were wrong? What other reason could there realistically be when just about no one wants to keep Molotovs in the game?

Molotovs were hardly used effectively as terrorists at ESWC. Most often we saw rich teams with tons of money throw Molotovs from banana to triple box in the B site of de_inferno_se, but they simply weren't used very effectively, or even often on the attacking side.

As counter-terrorists however, Molotovs, or rather Incendiary grenades, were used extremely effectively especially by Area51, n!faculty and VeryGames, based on the matches I caught. There is also little doubt that other teams will copy VG's upper Molotov defense on de_nuke_ve and perfect other aspects of using Molotovs as they head into the $45,000 tournament at DreamHack.

Much like with any other specific aspect of CS, some teams are better with Molotovs than others, but in every team they do have similar effects, and they do not please the customer, who in the way of advertisements during stream indirectly pay for the event through corporate sponsors.


Good luck rushing upper versus VeryGames
 

VeryGames were able to lock down the upper bombsite of de_nuke_ve versus ESC Gaming with great use of Molotovs. After building up money, Cédric "RpK" Guipouy would Molotov squeeky door for a rush, while his teammates had Molotovs primed for both connector and hut when waiting for a later terrorist execution.

Contacted by HLTV.org, former member of the infamously rush heavy 69N-28E squad and current captain of WinFakt who are attending DreamHack Winter, Joona "natu" Leppänen said he thinks Molotovs slow down the game and limit players' natural ability, thus making the experience weaker, based on what he saw during ESWC. Even Patrik "cArn" Sättermon, long time in-game leader of fnatic went on to say that Molotovs reduce the game's speed and the dynamics in strategies.

Another unhappy spectator was Björn "THREAT" Pers who has watched both DreamHack Valencia, where Molotovs were not allowed, and ESWC from home: "I could tell such a huge difference in how teams played their terrorist sides at the two events. Molotovs make it virtually impossible to rush, because you don't want to take risks like that when you can be stopped by one Molotov, regardless of how good your strategy is, rushing is out of the question for the most part, and when teams have to take much longer every round, it takes an element of the game out and makes it less entertaining to me a viewer." 

When questioned directly after their semi-final loss, Area51's players also confirmed VeryGames were able to completely shut down de_train_se with help of Molotovs, as it was impossible to rush outside. Later on the whole world saw the Frenchmen do the same to NiP, who barely scraped together four rounds 

You can always argue that teams can counter this and it won't work forever, but why would we want to have them included in the first place? People wanted to try them, well, now we have, and we have arrived at a conclusion.


n!faculty just guaranteed no one will come through CT spawn for 7sec
 

Molotovs, as I predicted months ago, are something that will only help the team that is already winning, win more, due to how expensive they are. They also make it much easier for teams to play 4-1 CT side setups on maps like de_inferno_se, as a single Molotov will slow the terrorists' attack for seven seconds.

Now imagine you're VeryGames and you're up 7-0; you have money to buy five Molotovs every round (and no, limiting the number wouldn't be fixing the problem, it would simply make it smaller - but why settle at that?) and it becomes even tougher for terrorists to win. Terrorists do not gain as much from the use of them as CTs do based on ESWC and logic.

This of course works two ways; If you watched VeryGames against Anexis you will know that the French partly fell to a tie because they kept double saving as CTs to get Molotovs, as opposed to attempting to win without them.

It obviously evens the issue out, but it's not what the spectators want to see by any stretch of imagination. We do not want rounds decided by a Molotov; we want players using their full skill with all weapons, not limited by something so grossly overpowered. Most of all, we don't want an item that only favors the team that is already winning.

"You can't have set strats or executions like you could in CS 1.6 or CS:S due to Molotovs. You can't use 45 seconds to setup for a strat that can be shut down with one $850 purchase at any time", said Sam "DaZeD" Marine of Area51.

Pers added: "with Molotovs the playstyle of my teams could never work because we could spend an hour going over a perfect execution of a strategy on any map where everything is timed and practiced to perfection, but all that hard work and preparation could be undone with a Molotov. It just doesn't make sense how much easier they make the game".


No Molotovs in Valencia. Hear anyone complain? Funny, me neither

The natural way to counter defensive Molotovs was already used by n!faculty, one of the more clever teams with them, who would begin rounds with quick fake attacks all around the map, baiting the CTs' Molotovs out and allowing them to attack safely later on in the round. It works, but it doesn't serve the spectator in any way.

This is of course the evolution to the meta game and I could go into detail of how it can keep evolving for years in the worst case scenario, but no one wants the incredibly fast skill paced CS to die simply because of an item that doesn't need to be there in the first place. There is a much, much better option, and it can be done by either the players by boycotting the item, or by events disallowing their use.

Just to clear it up, we are not trying to get Valve to remove Molotovs from the game, as some of our users have suggested. They are likely to nerf them in the future, and it's one way to go about it. However, based on almost all the players actually competing in these events, as well as a large portion of the fans following and supporting them, it's hard to make a case for why Molotovs should stay in the game.

I think CS:GO can be a very interesting game to watch as a spectator and I would much rather see matches decided by teamwork, strategies and individual skill. I don't think Molotovs can be nerfed enough to not be overpowered yet still stay relevant. And if they are, do you really want to risk the biggest event so far in CS:GO's young history on something we don't have enough time to test properly in a competitive environment? It's time to leave them behind, where we left the Riot Shield nine years ago.


CS:GO's Money system

The second issue we're going to address today is the money system in CS:GO. For the most part it's almost identical to the proven system from the earlier Counter-Strike versions, but one problem has snuck its way in.

Remember that save round by 3D versus GameOnline (GoL) at CPL Winter 2002 that changed how Counter-Strike was played? Or the article written in late 2003 by Griffin "shaGuar" Benger which made Valve step in and change the system?

Well, clearly Valve does not, at last not completely, because they didn't keep the whole change for CS:GO. What I'm talking about is of course the amount of money terrorists receive after saving their weapons.

In Counter-Strike, you would receive $0 of money after saving your weapons as a terrorist, which means you'd have to consider how much your equipment is worth because for example, you wouldn't save $2,000 worth of equipment instead of receiving $3,400 for losing the round.


team9 boosted a member on the big rock to save out at CPL Summer 2003
 

However, in CS:GO, you receive full money as terrorists. Now why is this a problem? Because teams not only can, but logically if they don't think they can win win a save round or take two guns out, they should save their weapons on save rounds.

Area51 was the only team to do this at ESWC, and it got them their tie versus mousesports on de_nuke_ve in the group stage, although it didn't pan out well in the semi-final against VeryGames.

By saving their weapons Area51 didn't allow mouz to cash in on their kills, meaning mouz lost anywhere from $1,500 to $4,500 in profit from the frags, as the round ended with basically no bullets fired.

That wasn't all of it though, as mouz had also purchased weaker SMGs in order to cash in on CS:GO's new money system with specific money rewards for different weapons, and were therefore stuck with the weak weapons, unable to upgrade for the first gun round.

This setup a situation where Area51 had $3,400-3,700 for a third round buy while mouz technically had won $6,500 from the two rounds, but spent $3,250 of it on four MP7s and a Bizon, thus forcing them to keep their SMGs for round three which they wound up losing, giving Area51 the next two rounds.

You can't blame Area51 for this or anyone else who chooses to do it while the possibility exists. It's in competitors' nature to find every available edge they can and use it to their advantage, as long as it's allowed and possible. That's how more and more teams will eventually start doing it, just like everyone copied the Christer "fisker" Eriksson jump onto the big red rock in CS 1.6's early days to gain a similar advantage.


Area51 mimicing 3D's footsteps nearly a decade later in CS:GO
 

Luckily there's an easy fix - an update to CS:GO from Valve that changes the money system so that terrorists who survive a round no longer receive money. It's important that his teammates still do, but only the people who save out, do not.

You don't of course have to take my word for it. Take the word of Spencer "hiko" Martin, member of Area51, who has so far gained the most out out of all teams from the system. Contacted by HLTV.org, Martin said he thinks it needs to be adjusted to how it was in CS 1.6 in order to keep the game more interesting for the viewers.

Once the change is implemented, we no longer have to watch teams save their glocks in terrorist spawn for almost two minutes, and play will resume to the faster, more enjoyable Counter-Strike we all enjoy watching. I mean, pending the Molotov situation.

What do you think of the changes suggested above? Would you like to see them implemented right now or possibly in the future? What would you change in CS:GO if you had a chance? Let us know in the comments below!

100% agree - Molotovs have to go.

Post edited 2012-11-11 10:26:03
2012-11-11 10:25:14
Or just allow 1 molotov a team per round and lower or remove the slowdown effects.
2012-11-11 10:59:11
Molotovs have to go
2012-11-11 16:24:43
Maybe. But before that happens I wanna see a molotov with lower slowdown effect and a shorter fire.

If they put in a bit more work (wich they will do I think) it can create a lot of epic action.
Even without giving the CT team too many advantage.

Post edited 2012-11-11 18:39:47
2012-11-11 18:38:18
The reason tournament organizers keep the molotov is the same as the reason they are still using SE versions of stock maps. GO will be able to grow a lot more with dev support and valve wants us to use their shiny new toys, that appeal to casual players and bridge the gap between someone playing casual and watching competitive CS.
2012-11-12 00:23:59
These changes are good even for casuals.

Post edited 2012-11-12 00:42:16
2012-11-12 00:41:50
To be clear i think the molotov is to strong in its current form and everyone pretty much agrees it needs to be scaled back somehow. Lots of good ideas on how to do that have already been presented in this thread and many others.

The money system the OP could be right about, but i think it needs more time for the meta-game to develop. Area 51 is the first team that we've seen do that on second round after losing the first and yes it was boring. Consider the opposing teams options, however. They can either not buy any guns and hope the T side doesn't call their bluff and push a bombsite or they can play safe and buy SMGs.

If they choose the latter and the team that's down 0-1 decides to do what area 51 did, the side with guns is then forced to make a coordinated push into the T spawn for frag money or wait it out and take economy hit.

This certainly has the potential for mind games and depending on how teams play it out, it could be more exciting than your average 3-0 start.
2012-11-12 05:33:16
what's the point
2012-11-11 17:45:38
The point is that it can and probably will give extra epic action.
Always nice for viewer and player I think
2012-11-11 18:42:02
lasers could give extra epic action

grappling hooks too

hey, why not add lightsabers instead of knives? you know..for extra epic action
2012-11-11 18:49:00
You do know these are being used all over the world by military right?
2012-11-11 19:01:16
Yep, just like rocket/grenade launcher and bazooka. Would you like to add these too?
2012-11-11 20:55:16
+1
2012-11-11 22:24:50
glhf rushing squeeky..
2012-11-11 23:24:37
Bro, take away the slowdown effect and it's a hole different story.

I hate molotov also right now. But why not first try to make it better before completely removing it ? It's here now anyway.
2012-11-12 00:11:29
Sure if they do a little tweaking and nerfed it, but as lurppis said Molotov as of now is a no go for competitive scene.

It should be "temporary" banned until it's 'ready' to be used.
2012-11-12 01:10:56
Epic action as in more aces / highlights / miniclips bro. XD
2012-11-12 00:27:49
Add a grenade launcher for mp7.
2012-11-12 00:31:20
or replace the slowdown with additional speed, because in real life we usually run faster when we get caught on fire.
2012-11-12 17:47:32
Yes very nice suggestion.
2012-11-12 22:15:30
-molotov; +1.6 duck; = competitive game +silencer = Great game =)
2012-11-11 16:46:12
true that!
2012-11-11 18:06:00
Seriously :D:D:D HAhaa jimneso! :D
Shit update.
2012-11-11 10:26:20
true. update 4 shit
2012-11-11 23:18:18
this surely must be DONE!! valve developers should arrange that by next update if they want cs go to stay alive that's what.
2012-11-11 10:35:16
Agree Sir.
2012-11-11 11:38:50
an0 has spoken valve shall obey!
2012-11-11 11:40:28
by: tfg
#6
And one more update, PLEASE. Let us buy ammo, like in 1.6. God, valve thinks we all are americans, and we cant count, or what? I prefer AK for 2500 with 30 ammo, so I can play when I have 3500$ (kev + ak), or 30/30, but not fucking 120 ammo all the time >.< Or awp 10/30, wtf?
2012-11-11 10:37:14
awp it's 4750$ just like in 1.6, and still gives u full ammo :)
m4a4 it's 3100$ and it gives u full ammo :)
now every weapon is good to use in this game, I don't see why u should buy such a powerfull weapon second round or force a round to win(probably going to lose it)

Post edited 2012-11-11 10:55:45
2012-11-11 10:51:10
Ammo is free on cs:go.
2012-11-11 11:12:56
by: tfg
#69
I know, but I cant buy ak like i could in 1.6 while i have 3,5k with full kev
2012-11-11 11:26:28
just shut up...u cant have new 1.6 game ;)
2012-11-11 12:31:11
by: Schypher - HLTV.org
#283
Please take it easy, no need to be rude. Thank you.
2012-11-11 17:03:09
by: tfg
#401
I dont want new 1.6 game, but I just dont want source's money system, I think they should allow us to decide about ammo needed etc
2012-11-11 21:50:32
you're a well-known 1.6 cheater so no one gives a fuck about your opinion, thxbyeunab
2012-11-14 20:17:46
Deal with it
2012-11-11 12:45:03
I agree.
2012-11-11 21:42:40
If they dont want to remove them,than just limit them so only 1-2 members of team can buy it...
2012-11-11 10:38:02
ffs read the news!
limiting them doesn't help...even if you're aware of the possibility of the opposing team having 1 molotov...you'd never dare rushing small site cause you can get easily denied!
Playing them smartly would make comebacks impossible!
2012-11-11 14:06:33
read my comment again you angry little prick...IF THEY DONT WANT TO REMOVE THEM THAN JUST LIMIT THEM TO 1-2MEMBERS(WHICH IS STILL BETTER THAN 5..GET IT???)
2012-11-11 14:11:08
Relax kiddo,
I'm just quoting lurppis
"(and no, limiting the number wouldn't be fixing the problem, it would simply make it smaller - but why settle at that?)"
and he certainly has a point!


2012-11-11 15:57:48
Comparing the molotovs to riot shields, and not exploring the alternatives... completely killed your article. When you talk about spectators you are thinking "inside" the box, as in, the existing CS Community. Outside that box, people I have spoken to who have little clue in the competitive aspect of CS, have enjoyed seeing them used for various reasons.

I still do not agree with banning them, the alternatives SHOULD be tried first before we go banning them.

The money system does need changing or at least tweaking.
2012-11-11 10:38:31
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#13
if i had cancer and my doctor told me we can either try chemotherapy or instantly have surgery, which has a 100% success rate, i would go with surgery.
2012-11-11 10:42:40
Wow... you are comparing a medical illness to a game.

Let's take a step back and tell if you are actually being serious here......
2012-11-11 10:43:48
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#20
molotovs are cancer to cs:go. you want to make the tumours smaller, i want to remove them altogether. kapish?
2012-11-11 10:46:45
I can see how biased this article is...

The fact that people simply want to ban and not try is rather stupid. The game needed refreshing, it was lacking, CS was getting boring, and this is an interesting mix. We are two months into the game, and theres still a long way to go before banning anything. We should be looking to try different scenario's.
2012-11-11 10:49:07
Not try? did you even watch ESWC? it was a joke. They are clearly game breaking and boring in competitive cs.

2012-11-11 10:55:18
In your opinion, and by the way I watched the majority of ESWC. They are overpowered yes, but banning them at this stage without trying clear alternatives is stupid.
2012-11-11 10:57:01
Please list your alternatives.
2012-11-11 10:58:11
One or Two Per Team.

Restricting to just Terriorists.

Limiting them to post 40 seconds into a round.
2012-11-11 10:59:37
u got a point there but u should try those alternatives in a real match and see what happens
2012-11-11 11:02:06
Two Per Team at Frag-O-Matic LAN before DH Valencia, was tried, and many people at that event enjoyed that system.
2012-11-11 11:06:36
then i will let for example 1 go to ramp in nuke and 1 go for cv and just both drop molotoves at the same exact spot that makes rushes impossible
2012-11-11 11:35:11
One or two per team is still annoying, your still not going to see teams rush anywhere because they wont want to risk the molotov, also just having one or two in general means there are two cts still playing a boring passive line watching a crack just waiting to dump it. Or sitting above rafter watching squeaky like verygames did EVERY SINGLE BORING ROUND.

Restricting to just terrorists still screws over the game. they take B on D2 for example and can just lay one on doors at the crucial point of a retake, 7 seconds is all the time in the world in retaking. I want to see the CTs going in their getting sick headshots and pulling off a nice retake, not "Oh well guys theres a mollie on the doors lets go save now"

limiting them to post 40 seconds, if even possible would just make the terrorists camp out longer if they have the money advantage to use them or would make them try and get into the site quicker if the CTs had the money advantage. Boring stuff. and still stupid

Post edited 2012-11-11 11:06:57
2012-11-11 11:04:36
I think 1 per team might actually work out well because you will have to think about where the T's will rush and terrorists can easily make a fake attack to force the CT to throw 850$ on the ground. You will have to think more about buying a molotov as it might be useless.
2012-11-11 14:00:24
+1
2012-11-12 04:21:26
perfectly right
2012-11-11 17:41:11
or maybe just change the AoE of the grenade so that you can actually run through it without dying / losing MOST of your health.

so either change the DPS of it or the AOE. i feel like the molotov could work if it only slowed down your rush and/or made you take a little bit of damage. then it would be something refreshing and i agree with you, it's worth exploring the options before banning it out completely.
2012-11-11 18:12:22
Limiting to just terrorists would be unfair, as it would be impossible for CT's to retake.
2012-11-11 19:35:50
don't even try arguing about molos around here. You know it's useless.
2012-11-11 13:28:18
word
2012-11-11 22:59:57
by: natu
#28
Excuse me but how on earth is it making the game more interesting when basically due to molotov's current nature - teams are forced to triple fake and are not able to make any sorts of fast strategies to change up the pace? Trying to mix things up is a good idea but it is quite obvious molotov's are not the answer, atleast not the way they are right now.
2012-11-11 10:55:54
How about limiting it to two per teams, and as Rob as just reminded me on Steam, Frag-O-Matic LAN did this and the feedback at that event was that the system really worked well....

This is more what I am on about, I understand they are "game breaking" or "overpowered", but banning them is out of the question THIS EARLY into the game...
2012-11-11 10:58:30
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#57
two seems enough to stop a rush on two bombsite on any given round, no?
2012-11-11 11:10:35
Nope... judging by the standard of play at FoM, there were no complaints about the rush tactics being affected.
2012-11-11 11:12:40
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#61
i'm willing to bet the people at eswc could figure out a better way to use them than of the standards of play at "FoM".

one guy holds a mollie under ladder for ramp, one guy in tower on de_nuke ct. where do you rush?

one guy has a mollie for mid on inferno, another guy for b. where will you rush?

same goes for every map.
2012-11-11 11:14:33
I'm guessing as a top player you don't rush with flashes or smokes, or don't fake rush and go back round to the other bombsite....

Cannot comprehend how stupid you look with that post there...
2012-11-11 11:26:31
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#72
doesn't matter if you rush with flashes or smokes, the molotovs will still kill you.

you can fake if the other site's mollie guy moves, but you still can't rush directly.
2012-11-11 11:30:55
So you are simply assuming that the guy has a molotov primed and ready for the rush, and will drop it as soon as he is flashed?

If so... that ct is either clever, brave or stupid and willing to sacrifice himself....
2012-11-11 11:32:10
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#78
he obviously is staying in the back simply holding a pre-planned molotov which will stop a rush, that will be called out by his teammates who are holding out their guns ready to shoot people.
2012-11-11 11:36:59
what's your opinion on restricting it to 1 per team?
2012-11-11 14:05:10
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#176
by: lurppis - HLTV.org#13
if i had cancer and my doctor told me we can either try chemotherapy or instantly have surgery, which has a 100% success rate, i would go with surgery.
---------------------------
by: Gumpster#16
Wow... you are comparing a medical illness to a game.

Let's take a step back and tell if you are actually being serious here......
---------------------------
by: lurppis - HLTV.org#20
molotovs are cancer to cs:go. you want to make the tumours smaller, i want to remove them altogether. kapish?
2012-11-11 14:10:19
when someone tells you about the option to restrict it to 2 per team per round you elaborate on it how both bomb site rushes would easily be shut down by molotovs but now you just come with that quote...
As a CT, who of the team should buy the molo? How do you get to know where the T's will rush? You will have to either know your enemy very good or just predict it from the previously played rounds. It adds more tactical depth to the molotov usage.
2012-11-11 14:13:26
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#184
why don't we add a bazooka for $10k? it'll add more tactical depth because you have to know where the team is going!
2012-11-11 14:15:12
the article is good but your close minded answers to all the opinions given just kills it all again...
2012-11-11 15:43:32
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#241
or i've just already thought about all the other options (brought up so far) and deemed them significantly worse?

if i hadn't already thought about nerfing it etc, why would i have written this article?
2012-11-11 15:46:02
+1
2012-11-11 18:15:47
by: MahpLTT - HLTV.org
#328
Agree on that one.
2012-11-11 18:29:09
what do you think for a TANK 16k?
2012-11-11 17:10:47
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#288
i did always wanna drive the apc on prodigy...
2012-11-11 17:23:57
You disgust me on insane levels. I'd say over 90% if not 100% of top players who UNDERSTAND competitive CS, not you, who goes to community LAN's to get drunk and socialise because that becomes difficult for you in everyday life, want them removed. You will never, and have never played CS at a level where your brain can even begin to understand this Molotov.
2012-11-11 15:09:33
You are obviously a Source gamer. God you are stupid.
2012-11-11 18:07:38
What in my comment makes me a Source gamer? Because I agree they need to be removed? Or are you the stupid one?
2012-11-11 18:08:43
Oh my bad :D

Thought that comment was directed at lurppis and not towards Gumpster.

I was the stupid one that particulair situation.
2012-11-11 18:20:01
:) - but for the record, Yes, I am a Source gamer, and no, the top Source gamers don't want molotovs, just retarded people like "Gumpster" who attend community LAN's.
2012-11-11 18:24:26
I know the Source gamers hate the molo aswell. But what you said about Gumpster "I'd say over 90% if not 100% of top players who UNDERSTAND competitive CS, not you, [...]", if that was directed towards lurppis, it would be an obvious Source comment, since lurppis is without a doubt one of the smartest CS 1.6 players there's out there.

Post edited 2012-11-11 18:28:35
2012-11-11 18:28:24
But it clearly wasn't directed at lurppis, if you read the rest anyway.. :D
2012-11-11 18:53:34
I only read like 1 of your comments, wasen't really in the mood for big wall of texts :P
2012-11-11 20:12:43
hmm wasnt the idea on the article to make full-on rushes possible and rule out the triple faking shit that is going on.. and ur suggesting a fake rush just like the article already pointed out and said its boring to watch it everyround when they try to bait the mollies out of the picture.
2012-11-11 12:02:16
are you kidding me? are you an actual spastic?

I swear it's only terrible players who want molotovs in the game so it's easier for them to win rounds.
2012-11-11 14:38:28
[lurppis threat natu cArn DaZeD] just explained why it ruins the game etc and you come here to talk about some fucking random FoM's feedback? lol get out
2012-11-11 20:55:38
"atleast not the way they are now" is a point I fully agree with, but I think it's too early for a ban. I'd go for a restriction of 1 per team...
2012-11-11 14:02:04
Like you defend molotovs every singel time there is a topic about it, and in the end your best argument is, lets try blablabla.

We have tryed, we have pracced with them in more than 1 month and played a major event with them. They are destroying the game. Both for the playing teams, and for the crowd. Its suck playing with them, and it suks watching them being used in competetive matches. I could go one if there was some restrictions like 2 molos pr. round pr. team. That would maybe add a new tactical aspect, but 5 molotovs on a ct sided map with money control, comon...

Almost every af Lurppis arguments seems legit. So i hope the community/lan organizers will listen and read this, instead of working aginst the community, go work with them?

(apologize for my sometimes unsympathetic English)
2012-11-11 10:58:42
"Like you defend molotovs"... if you actually read my arguments on here and Cadred, I actually don't "defend" them. I am against altogether banning them.

Not sure how many times I have stated this. And the fact that you just agreed with me by saying this

" I could go one if there was some restrictions like 2 molos pr. round pr. team. That would maybe add a new tactical aspect, but 5 molotovs on a ct sided map with money control, comon..."

shows you haven't read what I have said.
2012-11-11 11:02:01
I do apologize if i have missed something, but my impression of your forums post still stands. Banning them will be number #1 choice, but i could MAYBE live with 2 pr. teams :)

W/E i still dont get it, seems like lan Organizers are working aginst what most people want. In the end i hope they will be removed or at LEAST restrited to 2 pr. teams. While maybe adding some changes to the money system, and implement tuscan and maybe season?
2012-11-11 11:08:26
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#43
it's indeed biased, in the opinion of someone who watched all of eswc and a majority of the people who competed at eswc.

if you thought cs was getting boring maybe cs just isn't for you, it still has a large following (and no, molotovs won't make it as popular as sc2 or lol) and a majority of them do not enjoy them.
2012-11-11 11:01:03
"and a majority of them do not enjoy them"... the majority being people who probably sit on here flaming CS:GO in every thread yes?

The feedback post ESWC in various threads on various community sites I have and frequently visited actually warmed up to molotovs.

"if you thought cs was getting boring maybe cs just isn't for you, it still has a large following (and no, molotovs won't make it as popular as sc2 or lol) and a majority of them do not enjoy them."

Not even sure what to say that.... so I won't bother.
2012-11-11 11:05:38
"The feedback post ESWC in various threads on various community sites I have and frequently visited actually warmed up to molotovs."

Most of the feedback is negative from everyone, and even if some sourcenoobs like you think the molotov is a good idea, it doesn't matter - it's the TOP PLAYERS decision.
2012-11-11 11:55:40
1.6 fanbois should just stfu and dont care at all?
2012-11-11 16:35:02
Everyone can voice their opinions if theyd like, but if it's clear that they're casual noobs with no clue about the game on a competitive level, Valve shouldn't listen to them (for example Gumpster here).
2012-11-11 16:44:07
No point in arguing with you, you are just too retarded and stubborn.But I agree with you on keeping the molotovs so this bad game dies faster.
2012-11-11 12:54:46
i don't wanna sound rude, but your opinion just doesn't matter :)
2012-11-11 16:24:35
true, he thinks everyone values his opinion and he keeps fighting for it on every post even though everyone puts him down every single time. If you were a top player, maybe your opinion would be considered, but when you're a nobody, try to keep it down a notch.

Gumpster, please shut up and go back to your bat cave cadred and annoy the people there not hltv.org.
2012-11-11 19:09:42
Good way to assume there StaaaN.

"Assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups".
2012-11-12 01:55:56
Yeah sorry, the article asked for peoples opinions, and some moron wants to say my "opinion doesn't matter", what actual logic are you running here?
2012-11-12 01:56:42
because you're not a pro your opinion has no value
2012-11-12 10:08:03
So you are saying anyone who plays the game competitively but isn't at the top shouldn't even have an opinion.

How fucking elitist are you....
2012-11-12 10:27:07
i think these opinions are addressed towards the event organizers, and u won't be attending these events right? i'm not trying to be an elitist, i don't even play the game, just saying what's on everyones mind
2012-11-12 11:33:21
The article is addressed to everyone, otherwise why ask for opinions from the "community"?

I still compete in the game, and changes that Valve implement affect the core playerbase that play.
2012-11-12 11:36:07
"As things often do, this of course went unnoticed by tournaments who seemingly do not care much about the players who, may I remind you, are the centerpieces of their events."

Taking this quote into account, the opinions are "pro-biased".

And you really don't have to be a member at Mensa to realize 1 molotov is less overpowered than 5. You really gave us no useful ideas with ALL your replies, since every person with IQ above his own shoesize must've thought about these mollie limitations already. You're just annoying, and no, i won't reply in this thread anymore. I hope I made my point more clear to you now..

Post edited 2012-11-12 14:30:52
2012-11-12 14:29:36
No unlike you I actually use my brain to see through people's arguments. The fact of the matter is, people who have whined about it, don't want to adapt their strats they have had for years to include molotovs, thats an extra strat they have to learn that they don't want to learn because it takes time. The only team who didn't originally moan or whine about Molotovs are the team who are known for putting in time to strats, VeryGames, and they also came across as knowing how to use them.

The fact that you also sat there and just said "1 molotov is less overpowered than 5" in a sarcastic way is stupid, and underlines your unfortunate IQ.

5 is overpowered yes. 2 is not. The arguments that people have brought to the table have been simple, "they make the game boring/slow", "they stop rushes dead".

That is the only arguments people have brought to the table, with 5 that is the case, it makes the game slow, and it stops rushes. Take away 5 and implement 2 means there is more likelihood for a rush to succeed like in old times.

Anyway, as you say, points have been made clear.
2012-11-12 14:49:40
i must sound like a douche, but i wasn't really asking you to reply to me nor do i care about what u have to say, my point stands - in the end of the day your opinion is in vain. I just wanted to tell you to stop annoying people with your replies about the same thing over and over again. Now go read my original reply and figure out whether you should or should not to continue this (one sided) conversation.



Post edited 2012-11-12 15:56:27
2012-11-12 15:43:34
So why reply again if you "dont care"....
2012-11-12 15:45:19
*WINNING* LOL!! now go play with a molotov or something :)

Post edited 2012-11-12 16:06:45
2012-11-12 16:04:49
Did u even play the game? Or did you just came back for some more flaming lurp?

Molotov at this moment are just too overpowered.
That's it.
Fix or adjust it and it will be fine.

Remove the slowdown effect, maybe even reduce it to 1 molotov a team. Maybe lower the damage hits. Maybe ... .

Simple things can easily fix this.

All they really need to do is swap the _SE maps with the _CE maps. Remove the crap on the floor that blocks you and remove the doorframe / wall blocks.

And please stop supporting csp since it took already so long to create the current version they have. I like that game aswell, but development is just too slow.

If they need +2 year to get where they are now, just forget about that game.

Post edited 2012-11-11 11:13:54
2012-11-11 11:01:50
I play the game competitively, and have suffered at the hands of someone deciding to drop a molotov on the bomb with little time to defuse.

So I am looking at both sides of the argument and giving a well versed opinion on the matter as someone who massively enjoys competitive CS.
2012-11-11 11:03:36
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#54
i watched all of eswc and talked to most teams who went to eswc and/or are going to dreamhack winter. i also talked to other spectators. i'd like to think they know what they're talking about.
2012-11-11 11:07:33
"What do you think of the changes suggested above? Would you like to see them implemented right now or possibly in the future? What would you change in CS:GO if you had a chance? Let us know in the comments below!"

Was this last paragraph just a string of words which you just copied and pasted from another blog, not understanding what it means?

If you invite people to express their opinions, why in the name of jesu cristo you lash out at Gumpster and try to prove his OPINION wrong?

Btw. I agree with you on the molotov and money issue. Atleast incendiarys should be banned completely. Also money system should be changed as it were on 1.6. Although I prefer to see some weapons, like shotguns to get a some bonus money on fragging. It encourages teams to use weapons on a broader scale.
2012-11-11 11:41:33
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#85
c/p:ing would take longer because i'd have to find an article to get it from first so nah, i wrote it.

isn't that the point? he argues against my points, and then i argue against his. that's how debating works.

sometimes i feel like i should just stop posting things altogether like basically everyone else who writes stuff. more fun arguing against no one? :D
2012-11-11 11:44:14
Arguing as bickering and arguing as debatting and making a point are two different things. You were seemingly doing the first one, not the latter. Or that atleast I got from your "molotovs are a cancer" and "you dont want to eliminate cancer but make it small" ramble.

And you should not stop posting, because your articles have always been great. I am saying that your on the point argumentive writing does not seem to continue on the comment section below when someone expresses his contradictory opinions.
2012-11-11 15:57:52
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#249
if people didn't understand my point from reading the article (because i did go over almost all the stuff that was brought up here already in the text) they won't get it if i bring it up a second time.

it's much easier to make a comparison, such as the cancer one, and hope people can connect the dots. unfortunately not everyone can.
2012-11-11 16:00:07
Your post pretty much summed up what i tried to tell you in the first place... Your way of argumenting is pretty much like: Here it is, take it or leave it. I am right and if you don't concur, then you are wrong.

Your "comparison" is a poor analog and just falls into the same category of "i am always right". There is no need for presumptuous comments about people not getting it.

Why do you invite people to share their thoughts, if you have a compelling need to always be right on subject which is a matter of opinion?

2012-11-11 16:44:10
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#289
if you give me the shitty arguments i already examined in the article and said were wrong then yes, you are wrong.

if you have a better idea or something i didn't go over yet, i will look into it.

everyone's invited to share their opinion, i'm simply trying to correct the ones that are most obviously wrong.
2012-11-11 17:25:30
It looks im not getting through... Good luck correcting people's wrong opinions. :)) It'll be a task with which you will surely have your hands full.

And good luck to Dreamhack winter. You and Redeye will make a good team shoutcasting.
2012-11-11 17:49:14
something like that.
2012-11-13 03:17:59
Or you are cancer to cs:go ? Why don't you just give up, you don't like the game anyway, you don't play it, you have been ridiculous and embarrassing the whole beta.

You are narrow-minded and outdated, please try to exist with some new stuff instead of recycling your problem with anything new.
2012-11-11 12:22:11
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#119
cancer implies power, i don't have power over cs:go. i was one of the biggest supporters of the game for a while, and i still try.

http://www.hltv.org/news/9252-players-speak-out-ba..

this isn't only my opinion, it's also me expressing the opinion of others.
2012-11-11 12:29:33
It's a metaphor, not a comparison. There is a distinct difference in how the meaning relates to the way it is said.

Van Gogh said, "Conscience is a manís compass." If you heard him say that, would you reply, "OMG are you really comparing a conscience to a compass!?!?!"
2012-11-11 18:51:48
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Post edited 2012-11-11 21:16:30
2012-11-11 21:12:55
most idiotic comparison ever.. sorry to say
2012-11-11 18:48:43
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#342
fits perfectly for what i think about molotovs
2012-11-11 18:51:15
fits perfectly? its disrespectfull...
2012-11-11 18:55:32
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#355
disrespectful towards whom? LOL
2012-11-11 19:12:40
wow, you are a girl
2012-11-11 19:13:22
Disrespectful? ROFL
2012-11-12 01:36:42
I can agree with Gumpster a bit. You're going to hard on these molotovs, like you already know there's no possible way they can be improved to fit in the game. Btw, I read an article on vakarm.net (http://www.vakarm.net/news/read/Valve-l-ESWC-Une-n.. - if you can read french) where they state that Valve plan on removing the tagging from the molotovs, which imo could well solve the problem altogether. They are also open on integrating zBlock's creator's crosshair and recoil values as he showed a few weeks/months ago (that j3di guy).

Imo what make molotovs so deadly overpowered is that you are so slowed while moving in the fire that you take way too much damage from them and become an easy target. Removing that slowdown should make it all more balanced and yet more realistic (I don't really understand why people would slow down while walking into fire...)
2012-11-11 19:31:26
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#368
if they are relevant they are overpowered and are taking something out of the game. if they are irrelevant, well, they are irrelevant. that's how i see it.

i know what chances valve will make, i've posted them in the comments somewhere here. depending on how much damage the molotovs now will do if you run through them (i haven't tried the dreamhack beta yet) they will either still be overpowered, or just irrelevant because peopel can run through them.

if i'm playing vs esc and about to take b on inferno and i know neo is playing there by myself, i'm glad to have two people run over the molly and lose 50hp and get a 2v1 gunfight, plus if the spread is less, maybe i'll lose even less than 50hp.

irrelevant.
2012-11-11 19:47:19
So what, we played CS 1.6 with weapons that were irrelevant too for more than a decade, did we complain about them? no, we just didn't use them.
2012-11-11 22:21:46
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#408
sure, but i wouldn't think valve wants to make them irrelevant for publics, i'm pretty sure they'd prefer tournies banning them, they won't make them irrelevant
2012-11-11 22:31:49
The difference is that cancer is 100% bad news. There are no positives to be had by having cancer.

The addition of molotovs on the other hand, does have positive aspects:
- brings variety/something new
- visually appealing
- development of new strategies to counter/dynamic changes to game plan to react

I agree that currently the positives of molotovs are outweighed by the negatives, but I don't see why taking the sledgehammer approach and removing them completely, is the only answer. Plenty of reasonable alterations to the molotov have been suggested, which should be explored first.
2012-11-12 00:45:59
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#455
one last time: they will either by irrelevant, or overpowered. those are the only two options.
2012-11-12 06:57:55
Talking about thinking 'outside the box' completely killed your post.
Having molotovs means no rushes...no igl in his right mind would ever risk a rushing to be just denied by 1 stupid 850$ molotov!
Restricting the molotovs to post 40-45s has its economical drawbacks!
Molotov allow a single player to cause so much damage and followed by a he grenade racking up a couple of kills without even showing himself!

You simply can't have something that cannot be countered!

Post edited 2012-11-11 14:18:46
2012-11-11 14:16:50
"people I have spoken to who have little clue in the competitive aspect of CS, have enjoyed seeing them used for various reasons."
those who have no clue about competitive aspect of CS (CS had the best gameplay, we know that) might like molotovs. sure they fun (new granade) but ask them what can they do vs a pro team using them. molotovs just have soooo many negative points that theyre just destroying the gameplay. oh and its normal for some people to like molotovs...if you've played a crap game and this one is a little less crapy, sure this game is excellent. i wonder whos thinking inside of the box now
2012-11-11 20:47:06
"I still do not agree with banning them, the alternatives SHOULD be tried first before we go banning them"

Why not to temporarily ban them, wait for the updates where it's nerfed, try it in a non-official tournament and, if the problems are solved(I don't wanna quote the problems, it's obvious for everyone) they add it again?

I think there's no reason to keep dealing with something that actually is terrible for the competition waiting for valve to fix it, if we can simply put it apart, wait for the fix(if it comes and proves to be effective) and just then add it back
2012-11-12 01:48:32
I think molotovs should either be removed completely or be replaced with a less powerful item such as a stun grenade (blurred shaky vision for 3 seconds or something. Turn away for less effect like flashes).
2012-11-11 10:38:33
so sth like flashbang ? :P
2012-11-11 18:06:39
so basically you want a 3rd flashbang?
2012-11-12 01:49:50
How stupid. Part of the issue isn't the fact the molotovs are overpowered right? Or maybe that the maps we're playing haven't been updated in years. Same d2 or inferno cpl_mill/strike. The game has bigger evolutional issues rather than a weapon that needs tweaking.

No molotovs are a good edition to a transition to ever more complicated competitive maps that require a player to hold more than one entrance.
2012-11-11 10:39:14
Interesting, good, and overlooked post.
2013-01-17 09:48:14
by: MahpLTT - HLTV.org
#11
A bit biased.
2012-11-11 10:39:34
Agree 100%

With regards to mollies i think players are going to have to take the first step like they did with the riot shield. The problem is some teams clearly as outlined in your article are better than other teams at using them at the moment so they will potentially be obliged to not using them (at least at dreamhack winter.).

Money needs changing ASAP. its so damn boring and its at the most crucial stage of the game when people are deciding whether they like it or not by watching the matches.

2012-11-11 10:39:55
guys what difference between the original an _se maps?
thx
2012-11-11 10:42:46
se removes the fog and useless junk.
2012-11-11 10:44:11
by: natu
#15
Great article and I can only give this the sign of approval on my behalf.
2012-11-11 10:43:31
well u should only idiots will just jump and say i love the molotovs it looks pretty fired someone told me that the other day rofl btw gj to u and lurrpis ofc
2012-11-11 10:59:14
in australia we arent using molotovs in our premier CS:GO league and in our ESL A-series matches teams have a gentlemen's agreement prior to match live to not use the molotov's.

i completely agree with the money system as well
2012-11-11 10:44:59
molotovs sucks :@
2012-11-11 10:46:33
Great article, i do agree in most of it. Like valve said to us, its not op to them, its the community, they make the game for both "scenes"
2012-11-11 10:46:58
There is a cvar to remove the molotovs if i remember correctly, so that can be fixed by leagues to set a rule to not to use them.

Money system fix would be nice too.
2012-11-11 10:47:22
there are cvars for the money system too i think, someone just needs to set it up in a cfg, if i remember correctly
2012-11-11 11:01:32
GJ my atheist friend ^_^
+1
2012-11-11 10:53:03
another awesome article by u lurrpis, gj!
2012-11-11 10:53:27
In Australia, we (PantheonES.com.au) recently ran a $2000AUD online tournament where molotovs were banned. It's safe to say that the standard of play was much higher with their omission.

There is literally nothing you can do to counter a well placed molotov, you have to wait it out.

They do far too much damage over too big of an area and have a slowing effect. Add to that key choke points on the map are already ridiculously narrow, you're shooting fish in a barrel.

Viva la revolution

2012-11-11 10:56:11
by: Pus - HLTV.org
#83
Preach it, brother.
2012-11-11 11:42:47
well written. in my opinion molotovs shouldn't only be banned from tournaments, they should be removed from the game. casual players don't like them either :<

Post edited 2012-11-11 10:58:23
2012-11-11 10:58:13
erhm not sure, in competitive, well seems every one is pretty ok with removing molotovs, but in ffa.. casual players use molotovs "A LOT" or more.. ALL THE TIME :D they wont ever remove it from the game, like shields on 1.6
2012-11-11 11:49:38
True, they're totally bullshit with FF off...
2012-11-11 14:19:48
didnt read it but if u dont play go , why u need to do a thread about it , what about csp?? where is it?
2012-11-11 10:58:42
i guess it wont happen even though i believed in it for long maybe after some months who knows.
2012-11-11 11:00:02
and if ur mocking lurrpis as he was supporting csp u better not try all of the 1.6 players were supporting it aswell so u will get vs the full scene of hltv.org beware.
2012-11-11 11:00:44
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#50
my article is based on my findings as a spectator and what professional/competitive players have told me of the game. i've played some pugs to get used to the game for dreamhack but in finland we also ban molotovs in pugs :)

csp is on it's way, news will come very soon
2012-11-11 11:03:38
those are good news then switching to csp asap when it launches
2012-11-11 11:43:53
both things are getting changed right now.
2012-11-11 10:59:33
how do u know? curious.
2012-11-11 11:01:23
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#56
molotovs are getting changed, but they will either still be too powerful or irrelevant. instead of smokes extinguishing them, maybe valve should just add a water bucket item in the buy menu? or an actual fire extinguisher? then the second guy into a site can just be spraying it on the way it, putting out fire
2012-11-11 11:08:34
that is actually a great idea maybe a fire extinguisher grenade even u always come up with intelligent ideas u sir are a genius.
2012-11-11 11:44:51
1+ lol at the water bucket part

I'm imagining how hilarious the game would be especially in important round. There will be no seriousness in that round when a terrorist carrying a bucket full of water with bare hands.

lolololololol
2012-11-11 12:00:50
HAHAHAHA.
2012-11-11 12:40:44
hahahahahahaa
2012-11-11 19:52:20
ROFL +1
2012-11-12 01:54:00
AUHAUHUHAHUA
2012-11-12 04:34:19
Thats sth new and refreshing...dat would bring new aspect to the game^^ (what about Ace Grenade could work as a movement slower for TT sided teams or to remove molotove fire?
2012-11-11 12:25:53
you are dumb and ass-licker by equal its pathetic.
2012-11-11 16:10:44
Water bucket - no, the game is supposed to look serious, not like for child.

Extinguisher grenades what was mentioned in news:
He Grenade and Smoke Grenade can extinguish flames but not fully, it's all about grenade type.

So the better option could be "Liquid nitrogen grenade aka LNG".

http://64bitvps.com/csgo/ticket/flaming-grenades-s..

Post edited 2012-11-11 12:49:46
2012-11-11 12:48:09
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#132
i was making fun of the fire extinguishing smoke grenades, not suggesting a water bucket should actually be added... :D
2012-11-11 12:50:22
I see :D Valve should add bazookas, so the game will be more dynamic xD

2012-11-11 13:00:27
well was laughing from it too but from the other hand if csgo fail in attracting great numbers of ppl ... hey! maybe remake go into mmmorpg isnt bad idea!
TT should buy ladder to get on balcon in inferno! Towers would be useless then ^^.
Or what about diging a tunel from spawn to bombside... Dat would be better ninja then Spawns one.

That way we could attract minecraft players and incidental moles to play cs:go !

Post edited 2012-11-11 14:01:13
2012-11-11 13:59:09
They are adding juice/soda cans to the game,so you buy them at pistol round and later on you can piss on those molotovs a few rounds later.
2012-11-11 13:01:30
isn't making them "irrelevant" nearly the same as "banning" them? In both ways they won't be used anymore...
2012-11-11 14:10:15
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#179
if they're banned they won't be used in competition. if they're irrelevant they won't be used in public servers either, and it's obvious valve cares about those guys a whole lot
2012-11-11 14:11:26
+1 on the bucket argument :D

Post edited 2012-11-11 14:22:31
2012-11-11 14:22:22
waterguns would be a much more practical option.
2012-11-11 14:41:36
im all up for using molos, but they need to nerf them to much smaller damage per tick and nerf the slow they do, just enough so its still a deterrent to teams rushing. saying that i wouldnt be that fussed if they werent used in comp play, and if teams have such a big deal with them, why not agree before their games/tournaments not to use them? like you said about the riot shield, a gentlemans agreement can go a long way as you never see riot shields used at all
2012-11-11 11:00:19
Shield and molotovs are good but ppl don't know how to use them, 'top teams'.
2012-11-11 11:14:22
by: carn
#62
Molotov is an appendix to the game that was implemented as an attempt to be creative and take the game play to a new level. What instead happened, much as the shield in CS1.6, is that it makes an element of the game so damn overpowered, with very little you can do about it - unless waiting(or implementing a fire extinguisher to CS:GO).

And for the sake of Counter-Strike's being in eSport, and particularly at stacked offline events, we DO NOT want to make the game slower. Instead the game should be made faster to make it more likely for organizers to execute great tournaments, which is already damn difficult in Counter-Strike.

One thing that I believe you forgot to bring up in this nice piece are the differences in the monetary reward depending on which weapon that was used when fragging.
I understand that this is one way to push players to use a wider range of weaponry , over the very few rifles and pistols that were ever bought in CS1.6 the last 7-8 years.
I have no problem seeing this setting activated on public servers running casual mode, but for the competitive part this will mess up the game completely, and causing some ridiculous situations.
Teams will for example do everything they can to kill off opponents with pistols/shotguns/SMGs/knife when the moment arises, such as in anti-eco vs. glocks(if T now decides to attack at all). This may even cause CTs to run away from terrorists as it's more beneficial if your team mate with a shotgun/SMG gets the kill. This will of course mean reduced game speed, and also more likely tournaments will not run on time.

I'm still to understand the math behind the CS:GO money system better, but I expect this to cause an imbalanced money situation to the team winning the pistol round, making the game less dynamic, and also less likely that the opponent will have a decent chance buying deagles / dropping AKs successfully round 2. I could be wrong on this one, but it will be a complete nightmare counting cash and I think CS is complicated as it is already, simplifying it is the key along with making it faster.

Just my thoughts!


Post edited 2012-11-11 11:23:00
2012-11-11 11:15:58
big up ;) +11111, 100% agree with carn
2012-11-11 11:18:39
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#65
as mentioned in skype (but i'll share with readers here), i agree money rewards should be evened out for competition as well, but i figured tackling two issues is a start.

i think every weapon should give you the same mount of money for a frag, and as valve has implemented cvars to make it possible, it's another thing tournament organizers could actually make happen easily if they agreed that was the way to go.
2012-11-11 11:20:07
agree with everything and especialy the last sentence :D
2012-11-11 11:20:42
Here you see cArn owns everyone in the thread again
2012-11-11 11:44:22
+1
2012-11-11 11:45:25
I don't see how different weapons would be a problem. Your example will never happen frequently, and even if it was, it's not such a big deal, it makes defending tactics less predictable, it encourages team coordination, makes the economy system more important and drops/exchanges of weapon more used. Why not?
2012-11-11 15:28:37
"KAPISH" haha well done comment kiva
2012-11-11 11:18:43
i agree with you.
+i would change movement, maps a little bit (move cars,some area is to small) and change a little weapon models (mk is so chubby and awful-no silencer,ak47 is ok but it could be better)
2012-11-11 11:20:41
by: twil
#68
you're absolutely right^^
2012-11-11 11:24:37
Nice read and according to #44 all these things are being changed. Let's see what valve pulls up.
2012-11-11 11:29:51
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#74
valve's ideas:

- molotovís fire is now extinguished by smoke grenades and HE explosions.
- deployed smokes now deny molotov detonation and spreading.
- molly fire now spreads a bit faster and not quite as far.
- getting hurt by molotov fire no longer slows you down.

not sure which one(s) they end up going with, but it's still a downgrade from just removing them altogether.

either too powerful, or irrelevant.
2012-11-11 11:33:21
+increase cost of molotov to 2K$? How about that?
2012-11-11 11:51:22
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#97
irrelevant, and overpowered (although barely used)
2012-11-11 11:53:58
But with price like that you actually can't use them in every round. Im sure that molotovs need to be banned, but if there is some guys who actually loves molotovs, then we should respect their opinions too, isn't it?

Post edited 2012-11-11 11:57:42
2012-11-11 11:56:49
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#150
majority rules in our world, it doesn't matter if someone disagrees if they're not within the majority. would it have been unfair to me if i wanted to use the shield in 2010?
2012-11-11 13:09:52
If majority rules the world, it doesn't mean that minority doesn't has their rights. For example, to be a president, you need to have 51% of votes, but it doesn't mean that you should be an president for this 51% of peoples in your country and you can give a damn for other 49%. Not sure if write it correctly, but i think you can understand what i try to tell. We can't ban molotovs just because of me and you want this, we must find the way that will acceptable to all. That is my point.
2012-11-11 14:48:57
It isn`t about majority or minority, it`s about game itself. Cs is skill based competitive game in its roots, which is specialised for appealing this type of player. Making game more appealing to newbs and casuals while making game worse to its original player base just makes it worse, even if its original player base was minority.

Post edited 2012-11-11 14:55:02
2012-11-11 14:54:05
HE explosion extinguishes fire from a molotov? Fail physics or what.

The smoke nade idea is decent though.
2012-11-11 12:00:03
kind of failish yeah, burning gasoline or alcohol or whatever it is should only spread out more by the blast
2012-11-11 18:19:06
Not exactly. I think it's about a shock wave. It can "blow out" the fire.
2012-11-11 23:09:23
not bad ideas at all... smoke grenades makes the situation more random with denying molotov detonation... interesting,now let's see how pro players will react to this idea (not just the pro players, but we, community, too)

anyway, I think that mol's should be banned for competetive mode (like Zeus x27) and should added only for casual mode and nobody changes my mind, but mol's in competetive mode is a complete retardism and nonsense which slows the game and makes some very random and ridiculous situations

Post edited 2012-11-11 12:12:20
2012-11-11 12:03:16
The Zeus had no impact in any competitive match i watched so why should it be banned?
2012-11-11 14:19:11
I meant that Zeus is already banned in competetive (he has no impact ofc, but we can't use him in competetive mode, and this should be done to molotovs too)
2012-11-11 15:02:19
Problem is that molotovs aren`t suited for casual game mode, due to friendly fire and team colussion beign turned off, which allows to exploit molotovs in pretty bad ways.
2012-11-11 15:12:14
oh cmon!! lurppis i love you!
can't agree with you more
2012-11-11 11:34:21
its actually more productive to just type kill in console on 1 or both ecos, fair enough you get a -1 score, but it generates the same money as a loss round, and has no chance for the cts to push you and to get their 800 per kill, not to mention the fact that if u wait 20 seconds into the round and then type kill in console on eco, then you cannot get extra money from the bomb plant (if you do as ct), and the other team will automatically rebuy and upgrade weapons on 3rd gun round just incase your going to buy making them spend even more money!
2012-11-11 11:36:37
and personally molotovs are just something new to adapt to, they havent stopped us doing our fast strats we just try to execute them a bit differently due to the molotovs, and we try and get infront of the molotovs that have been thrown.

It does make T side on any map a lot more stressful, but we always forget that we can use them as T side too..

A lot of people complain about how the fact they lock down a site and its hard to get in, I've found numerous molotovs which can be used to force ct sides into a very defensive style of play or to be forced into pushing you depending on where u throw them and the cts positioning.

On inferno I play small site as ct, and i've found it a lot easier to hold that with molotovs, but against a lot of teams ive found 2 molotovs that can be used that FORCE ct's to play in certain areas of that small site, and to be honest it works.

I can see why everyones arguing against molotovs, but no one has managed to argue how powerful they are as T side.
2012-11-11 11:42:10
100 % agree
2012-11-11 11:44:29
by: PPH
#93
Great article! I really do agree with u
2012-11-11 11:51:01
Well said, these are two of many of the no-brain issues that the devs must fix.
2012-11-11 11:51:17
Agreed.
2012-11-11 11:51:40
Just ban the mollies for DHW, stoopid orgs! >:\
2012-11-11 11:55:32
100% agree.
2012-11-11 12:02:26
After 70 hours of GO I can tell you Molotovs make game funnier. Its more interesting with it.


One just not simply IP bans 74113j.
2012-11-11 12:03:35
ban him pls
2012-11-11 16:18:53
After 62.1 hrs of CS:GO i can tell you that Molotovs suck and they need to be removed from the competitions ASAP.
2012-11-11 18:50:31
+
2012-11-12 00:27:31
http://volcanotv.tumblr.com/post/30852491078/tweak..

volcano theory about money system.
2012-11-11 12:04:44
That seems pretty nice
2012-11-11 12:53:46
LURPPIS FOR PRESIDENT!
2012-11-11 12:09:00
they should make maps bigger.
2012-11-11 12:19:09
More wider not bigger.
2012-11-11 12:25:55
wider+bigger=3d enlarge
2012-11-11 12:36:32
I see.
2012-11-11 12:50:12
u right
2012-11-11 17:37:29
Molotovs should be a trademark Terrorist weapon. I don't mind seeing them as far as it sticks with the Terrorist side.
If you think that this would be imbalanced for the game, then maybe Counter-Terrorists should have their own unique weapon as well :p.

This could be a viable alternative solution.
Other than that, I think Molotovs the way they are now, don't help competitive game and like you said, they slow it down, destroying the strategies of the game.

I agree with what you said about the money system.
It was an interesting article to read by the way.
:)
2012-11-11 12:19:25
I think every spectator likes to see players camp with glocks on T base very nice

and the molo's?
IF valve choose to let them in:
Decrease damage
and remove slow

il bunnyhop trough it in 2 sec

got 99 problems but a molo aint 1
HIT ME
2012-11-11 12:20:38
100 % agreed
2012-11-11 12:21:42
I agree.
2012-11-11 12:23:09
"They are likely to nerf them in the future, and it's one way to go about it."

Proposal 1:
Remove completely flame grenades.

Proposal 2:
Remove/Reduce slowdown effect and maybe the price.

Proposal 3:
Remove/Reduce completely slowdown effect, reduce the price and allow 1/2 flame grenades per team.

New server-side command to disable molotovs and incgrenades for some leagues restrictions.
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=18&threadid=194446..

About the camping on the T spawn it should be forbidden on tournaments.

Post edited 2012-11-11 12:24:31
2012-11-11 12:23:14
Forbidding that would be the absolute dumbest thing you could do.
2012-11-11 12:28:40
I mean about 5 players on the spawn not these one which take the gun and want to save it.
2012-11-11 13:04:18
Then they'll write kill instead.. And if you ban that they will only camp four in spawn.. and then three and when you ban spawncamping completely, they'll camp in lobby or t appartments at inferno and so it continues.

Moneysystem has to be fixed.

Post edited 2012-11-11 13:17:24
2012-11-11 13:05:54
Ahh you're right.

Post edited 2012-11-11 13:15:28
2012-11-11 13:10:16
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#153
^ exactly as you said, you need to make things like this impossible within the game. as long as it's possible, players will abuse the rules -- that's the nature of competition.
2012-11-11 13:10:59
haha, exactly xD
2012-11-12 02:06:00
Very clear article, now it's up to Valve or players. I already said what players should do is talk each otheer and stop using molotovs on events, it didn't happen. Maybe now, we will se seome changes.
Really nice written Lurppis, lets see Valve's movement now...
2012-11-11 12:43:20
That`s what I was was suprised about at first when I saw terrorists saving up P250 and other crappy guns during streams... Nobody seemed to care, lol. I assume that either developers forgot to implement system to prevent terrorists from recedieving money after saving theyr gun, or they simply missed fact that losing terrorist survivors aren`t supposed to get any money reward...

Post edited 2012-11-11 12:45:43
2012-11-11 12:43:44
As Lurpis Wrote the molotovs Gonna get changed and
the Terrorists wont get Money for Saving anymore.

Also the smokebug (throwing a he Grenade trough a smoke ) will be fixed
with the New update.
2012-11-11 12:47:30
Dunno what to say, you may be right, but somehow i adapted to molotovs, and i'm not using them so often.
Even playing vs teams using molotovs all time (for example on ct side of inferno when they are cutting off mid and bannana with molotovs at the beggining of the round), that can be easily countered just by using n!faculty style or just waiting close to spawn for 7 seconds (which is not a big deal if you ask me).Imagine situations where you are CT @ inferno 1v3 and c4 is planted and you need to retake.
In most of situations so far i saw 1 or 2 players camping in big pit or house in order to make a crossfire.And now imagine how it will be easier for you to cut them off with 1 molotov and smoke.

After all that's just my opinion, and i find them nice and new interesting part of this new game, and solution for them, maybe can be, rising their price to 1700$ at least.

Post edited 2012-11-11 12:48:23
2012-11-11 12:47:57
by: GoMeZ - HLTV.org
#129
I'd like to see maybe:

1. They take longer to actually spread out, this would stop the pre-pinned reaction molotov (like the guy half peaking into banana on inferno or into the hut on nuke).

2. Remove or lower the slowing effect allowing people to literally run through it or jump through it.

If this didn't work, then remove them. I'd like to see if they 'could' work before we return to "1.6 was perfect lets just make it the same'.

But then again, why re-invent the wheel, just fucking ban them.

Post edited 2012-11-11 12:53:14
2012-11-11 12:49:12
actually I think keeping the slow would be more interesting, and just remove the damage.
2012-11-11 18:05:01
by: GoMeZ - HLTV.org
#410
Yeah that could work too.

Or maybe when you have armor, you take less damage... This would actually cut out all the useless 5man indian line rushes as well. (Which are also a waste of time).
2012-11-11 22:40:07
That's interesting
2012-11-12 02:07:23
-molo +silencer :D!
2012-11-11 12:49:19
+1337
2012-11-11 16:27:17
ban molotovs +1
2012-11-11 12:51:42
Good article. Agree about the money system, it needs tweaking. Not sure about the molotovs tough
2012-11-11 12:53:22
Great post lurppis.
2012-11-11 12:54:08
For me is really annoying, except molo and money, when gun is dropped and someone shot it or throw grenade near it, you cant catch it. Guns flying around all map...
2012-11-11 12:55:46
As almost all maps are heavily ct sided without molotovs, nerf molotov and let only terrorist use them? :P That would be interesting.
2012-11-11 12:56:53
heavily ct sided? ever played dust2 bro? :D
2012-11-11 18:05:43
_Almost_ all maps
2012-11-11 18:52:47
ok u got me :(
2012-11-11 21:10:18
add fire-retardant, fire-proof suit or armor that cost $400.

problem solved.
2012-11-11 12:59:36
Then molotovs will drop from overpowered to useless.
2012-11-11 14:52:52
by: Schypher - HLTV.org
#212
That's actually not a bad idea, remove the incendiary grenade from the CT's but let the T's have the molotov (maybe reducing the quantity per round would help as well), change the CT's vest&helm to have fire-protection (takes 50% less damage from fire).

Now molotovs will only be used in mid-late game when attacking or securing a bombsite, making the match more interesting (possibly).
2012-11-11 14:58:06
valve making a change?

eehhehehehe, dreamer believer believer
2012-11-11 12:59:50
by: hMp
#143
Couldn't agree more, good reading!
2012-11-11 13:01:02
REMOVE MOLOTOVS, FIX MONEY SYSTEM!
Remove de_inferno_se, replace it with _CE!!!!!
2012-11-11 13:04:07
In my opinion molotolovs just needs to be removed, as they don`t have any benefits anyway.
They just don`t work in counter strike. My blog about them there:
http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=135&userid=395752&..
2012-11-11 13:04:24
i do not want molotovs to be banned but if they stay at their current state, molotovs are extremely unbalanced. My proposition to valve would be this

-reduce the time from 7seconds to 4seconds
-remove the slow down effect through the flame
-make them 500$ pricier
-and limit them only 2 per team

i think those fixes should be enough for molotovs/incgrenades

and about the money system
make it like 1.6(shags edition :P) it is the fairest system and also the logical one
2012-11-11 13:10:40
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#154
once again, if valve makes molotovs that weak then they will be completely irrelevant everywhere, it's much easier to just ban them. no one in their right mind would buy a molotov with those features at a big tournament.
2012-11-11 13:13:05
but wouldnt it be better if they tweak molotovs and try them out in a couple of tournaments and then make a final judgement?
2012-11-11 14:08:20
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#173
remove them from tournaments and allow valve to work on them. if they become usable at some point (which i can't see happening) then re-introduce them to the game.

you want to have valve update them next week and allow them to have a deciding role in a $45k tournament a week later? that's ridiculous
2012-11-11 14:09:28
Are you telling me there won't be an update before DHW?! Nyooooooooooo! :[

Molotovs are enough reason for me to NOT follow that tourney :[
I don't wanna watch Team VeryMollies dominating everyone before NiP stops them!
2012-11-11 14:15:11
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#185
there will, and it will do some/all of the things i posted somewhere in the comments.

i'm also trying to work with dreamhack and the teams attending whom i could reach out to in a couple of days to ban molotovs in the tournament, we'll see if that works out or not.
2012-11-11 14:16:10
they are banned at DHW anyway arent they?
2012-11-11 16:46:41
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#284
could have sworn theyd said molos would be banned in an official capacity, obviously misread something somewhere
2012-11-11 17:27:17
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#293
they were for dreamhack valencia -- i have no idea why they changed their mind now.
2012-11-11 17:28:35
i didnt mean a tournament like dreamhack..a lesser tournament or an even better idea an invite tournament only organized by valve just to try a "new" (if any) updates at molotovs. that would be fair i think..As for DHW yes it should be banned it is way too imbalanced
2012-11-11 14:55:25
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#222
there is no reason to host a tournament for that, just ban it for now, try to fix it, and have teams try it here and there in practice and if they ever get to a level of balance that a majority finds acceptable, add them back.
2012-11-11 15:14:55
+1
2012-11-12 02:11:43
Valve has stated before that the Molotov should have i scare effect primarily, but in order to be scary at all they have to do damage. Like a mix between Flash and HE. If they are nerfed to the point where no one would buy them in professional play, then they wouldn't have to get banned at all.

My vote goes to banning them until they are calibrated (if ever). But let's not go out and ban stuff as permanent solutions. Problem here lies in that to be sure if they are calibrated enough is to use them in competetive play. I guess Valve will have to cough up some money to host some tournaments where they can experiment a bit ;)
2012-11-11 15:00:32
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#223
as i told her-1g above, there is no need to waste money on a tournament, just ban it from tournies for now, keep experimenting with different updates and if the pro community thinks they are balanced at some point in the future, consider bringing them back. simple as that. you don't need to waste tens of thousands of dollars to test it, just play some praccs.
2012-11-11 15:15:56
dont banned it

but REMOVE molotov from entire game
also completely agree about the money system

nice post lurp
2012-11-11 13:32:14
Great article. I was thinking about making a blog regarding all things you mentioned in the money system lol
2012-11-11 13:37:51
btw, awesome article picture. :)
2012-11-11 13:38:11
teams should boycott the molotovs @ DH
they should've done it @ eswc also :/
2012-11-11 13:38:24
I`m sure someone would pull them out and break boycott. Competitive spirit won`t allow for everone to lose matches without going all out and trying everything they can.
2012-11-11 13:42:24
First event after CS 1.6's release was CPL Copenhagen, where teams all agreed to boycott the Riot Shield, which then eventually led to its dismissal from competitive Counter-Strike.
2012-11-11 16:59:17
Difference is, riot shield isn`t something you can use to turn a tide when you`re losing. Molotov can.
2012-11-11 17:02:15
i would say that molotovs should be allowed but when entering to the fire you should move normally, thats how you can keep molotovs and rushing would work!

Post edited 2012-11-11 13:50:28
2012-11-11 13:50:06
nobody seem to talk that molotovs are great way to overtake a bombsite as well, everyone just throws them at the start.
2012-11-11 13:52:06
It`s harder to do, maps are made in way to make defending c4 sites easier than attacking them, even before any molotov comes in. Assuming that both teams are equal, there is no way for terrorists to take over c4 site with molotovs, because it`s just much easier for cts to succesfully use molotov.

Unless you mean for cts taking over c4 site after it is occupied by terrorists, however problem is that molotovs makes CT side OP when they already holds advantage without having molotovs in game.
2012-11-11 14:00:51
yes, i was talking about cts taking over the bombsite, but i guess both molotovs could be tweaked so it suits the side you are on. Like t molotovs could have higher radius or something while cts more damage.
but i definetely dont want them removed, i;m happy to see something other than the same thing we were watching for years.

Post edited 2012-11-11 14:13:32
2012-11-11 14:12:04
Forgot to mention money system, which i think is also fine. It was nice to see some shotgun rounds at eswc, rather than deagles like in 1.6
2012-11-11 14:15:05
How is it fine if we saw during many streams terrorists saving crappy guns and even basecamping with glocks during ESWC?
2012-11-11 14:40:46
well, it's their own choice to buy crappy guns or save for better ones and maybe they were talking tactics in spawn.
2012-11-11 15:24:12
Don`t you understand how important it is? When organizing events, time is money. Spectators want to see action.
By allowing such idling around, precious time is beign wasted and spectators aren`t very happy to watch as well. It can come down to every match taking too long and therefore there is increased risk for postponing other matches for later.
2012-11-11 15:28:47
okay..
2012-11-11 16:40:21
tell me
who could make a fkn rush when seeing this fkn shit mixed with some smoke i throwed
so imho the fireball, for me huh, it is a gift

fireball
smoke
30bullet ever strongest akspray
then nothing left
all gone with the fire

i am sorry but if you try again it will happen again and it will make me happy again
2012-11-11 13:58:09
fix the money system, molotovs banned and the feedback of the recoil has to be cganged so you know where th bullets are going just like in cs 1.6 thank you
2012-11-11 14:02:14
What about make them more expensive to CTs and make them available to only X number of players on that team?

Make them a high-rish/high-reward strategy. They're pretty much useless for the Terrorist, so I guess keeping the price on that side won't be a problem. But this would also require some tweaking on the money system, obviously.

Post edited 2012-11-11 14:10:37
2012-11-11 14:10:13
all teams should just agree not to buy molotovs to hell with organisers :D
2012-11-11 14:11:04
lurppis again telling self-evidence things, which will not help situation at all

if cs:go players want really change things, you should collect massive real name list of signatures of people who want things to change and send that to valve. none of these +1 comments here don't help because you cannot actually prove that they are not "some user account clones" that for example lurppis would have created (see difference: im not saying that he would done that; valve just cannot know that for sure).

this is totally useless just repeat these self-evidence time after time like lurppis have been doing. people like him have done so since cs:go came out and nothing(molotov&money system) have changed.

Simple way to solve problem is gathering real name signatures list for valve. they will take it seriously, but will valve take this article or +1 comments here seriously? answer is: No they don't.

Post edited 2012-11-11 14:21:41
2012-11-11 14:18:44
I`m pretty sure that organizators aren`t that stupid that they need to see bunch of signatures from favous players just to be conviced about something obvilious.
2012-11-11 14:23:55
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#193
this article isn't directed at valve. it's not even directed at tournaments. this is a website that provides news and article for it's readers; that's who it's directed towards.

i did on the other hand contact as many top teams as i could in the past three days and send a list with statement from them to dreamhack, whom will evaluate whether or not that is enough to ban molotovs at dreamhack.

ps. you think valve cares about 5000, 10000 or 20000 "real name signatures"? i can promise you they don't. this isn't a "valve" problem, this is a tournament organizer problem.
2012-11-11 14:24:16
yes i do think that they care about "real name signatures", because for example they changed many things in DOD:S after getting huge petition (with real names of course) from community.

And i didn't claim that you said that this article would be for valve. I said that if players want change things, they have to contact valve with huge petition.

This whole article is just pointless, because almost every cs:go players agree with these self-evidence already. It's pointless to write article like this to hltv readers, because only total idiot wouldn't already understood/knew those things you wrote in this article.

And it wouldn't be tournament problem (molotovs) if you/players would understood to send massive petition for valve. It's proved already that they do change if enough many people want to change something in game. You wouldn't have molotovs anymore in cs:go if you would done that.

Now you just wrote self-evidence article
2012-11-11 15:31:58
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#235
i wrote a "self-evidence" article which has made 10k views and 230 comments in 5 hours when not many people are online on a sunday. that's successful for what this article is meant for.

as i said, i sent a petition from players to dreamhack; i'm not interested in fighting with valve because i've already deemed that fight lost, i'd rather deal with people who are reachable and might do something about it.

i don't want valve to fix molotovs, i want them banned from competition. there's a huge difference.
2012-11-11 15:36:25
What i meant about molotovs: 99% hates them in this game. If (when) valve remove them from game, people don't have to separately send petition for each tournament who would like to use them. I didn't claim that you would wanted molotovs to be banned from game, i just gave solution that will permanently remove this problem (problem: does some tournament use molotovs or not).

10k views and 230 comments have nothing to do with thing is some article self-evidence or not. People here (hltv.org) clearly like to read CS:GO articles and comment them. Especially if they agree with self-evidence matter. And especially if there is something wrong with CS:GO, it's their (mostly 1.6 players) chance to say once again here how bad the game is.
2012-11-11 17:49:49
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#306
the stats weren't supposed to be evidence for the article being "self-evidence", they were evidence that the article was successful. big difference.
2012-11-11 17:56:08
I didn't claim that article was not successful in hltv.org scale (neither i did say that it was successful). I just told why it got so many reads and comments here, despite being full of self-evidence matters

Post edited 2012-11-12 06:54:52
2012-11-12 06:53:20
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#457
i've always like it when peopel say something is obvious etc when they would have never done it themselves
2012-11-12 07:06:05
that comment tell much about you.
you clearly overestimate yourself and your actions.

even 8 years old could done that article easily, could easily joined hltv.org and could publish article like this, but even most 8 years old children understand that writing and publishing article full of self-evidence matters is just idiotic and waste of time

Post edited 2012-11-12 14:00:52
2012-11-12 13:59:17
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#481
yet none of the 8 year olds did
2012-11-12 17:29:34
yep, because: even most 8 years old children understand that writing and publishing article full of self-evidence matters is just idiotic and waste of time

Seems that in this case even every 8 years old children got it, but someone not

Post edited 2012-11-12 17:41:53
2012-11-12 17:38:25
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#483
+21k hits, almost 500 comments, clearly got its job done for the website, hence not a waste of time
2012-11-12 17:41:11
even if it gets 30k hits, so what?. im pretty sure that if hltv.org owners would only care about hits that much, they would made porn site or site about more popular things than cs.


99% people are just clicking this article because it has topic: "Molotovs & money system in CS:GO"

Not because what you did write in this article, because they dont know until they open it.

And about comments. In this site most people like to criticize CS:GO always when possible and this article is perfect chance for that.

Just test. Add just one porn based "article topic" to hltv.org site and you will get easily 10 times more hits than this article did.

Still: making this article was waste of time

Post edited 2012-11-12 17:53:52
2012-11-12 17:52:35
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#487
hltv.org owners make money through advertisements and the profit is based on hits. get it or are you just a retard? without hits this site can't keep running
2012-11-12 18:01:38
Once again you didn't even understood what i wrote.

im pretty sure that if hltv.org owners would only care about hits that much, they would made porn site or site about more popular things than cs.

Keeping internet site open is really cheap nowadays. Even site sized hltv.org with all databases. No need for ad partners. So even without your articles they could easily keep this site up without any problems.

If they really would like to get profit from ads, they should do totally different type of site like porn site or for example site that tells news about more popular things than cs

you just wasted your time and you still don't get it hehe
2012-11-13 18:14:48
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#498
as it turns out every website in the world that is not porn related is retarded because according to you they should just be porn sites for more profit.

i'm sure it's really easy and cheap to become a very popular pornsite.
2012-11-13 18:33:31
ONCE AGAIN you misunderstood.. for some reason that doesn't surprise me at all anyone.

I said _one_ way to get easily more profit via website ads. I didn't say that anyone should do that way. It is just one way to get more money via ads.

But if you want to know how to get easily money, this topic is for you: http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=18&threadid=206677
2012-11-13 20:40:09
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#500
i do this mostly just to give something back to the community that gave me a lot, although i make a little money as well. if you wish to play poker, good for you!
2012-11-13 21:15:20
agree with everything you said and these changes would make the game infinitely better.
2012-11-11 14:19:33
buying ammo it's an other way to make the players think, before they do something, since if u have 3.5k as a terrorist, u should think if you buy an AK or not, but in the way it is, u just buy an AK because the ammo is totally free, I don't like that at all :/
and the molotovs are so boring, if you are going slowly and an opponent with luck throw a molotov jjust where you are, you have to run out like a retard... that's pretty bad
the money system should be the same as 1.6
2012-11-11 14:26:37
great article, i agree on everything
and please read Shaguar's article, it is amazng how similar both situations are.
2012-11-11 14:29:35
100% agree
2012-11-11 14:39:05
money sysmem change , no molotovs , m4 silencer, mayby put som more bass into the sound.
2012-11-11 14:43:34
everyone needs to do whats happening in Australia. They are literally not being used anymore even tho legally they are allowed in the comps, just some form of 'gentlemens agreement' is occurring and teams agree on not using them. After playing without the darn things for the past month i can tell you the game is a lot better.
2012-11-11 14:45:29
molo need tweaking not removing
2012-11-11 14:46:56
i really wish lurpis would bud out of the csgo scene. a hater like him has no place in the csgo community whether its casting or coverage.
2012-11-11 14:51:45
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#224
ah the outrage of me trying to get done what the players want! it's so wrong!
2012-11-11 15:18:17
Thats all you can do, wish. Nerd.
2012-11-11 15:22:44
ok, ok.. mollies won`t get banned, we will get bucket of water implemented in game just for you.
2012-11-11 15:25:55
O_O. Wrong reply?
2012-11-11 15:26:54
You are such a fangirl :D
2012-11-12 05:49:15
max one molotow in team or ban
2012-11-11 14:54:09
One of the best editorials on HLTV.org ever. Without a doubt. Strong argumens.
2012-11-11 14:56:44
i dont follow csgo but from the matches i've spectated via stream, i agree 100%.

if the developers/tournament organizers keep instisting on using molotovs, they could at least limit it to only terrorists. some kind of a compromise, tho it still sucks.

adding a few opinions of ex-source-players would strengthen your argument :) just saying, 90% of players already agree with you anyway, but the organizers dont
2012-11-11 14:57:17
It's squeaky, not squeeky.
2012-11-11 14:58:04
it's an amurrican thing
2012-11-11 15:41:31
money system is so much fucked up that if u have awp + armor + nades as a T and u loose the round after planting bomb u still get funds for awp and armor, thats like around 5k. WTF?
2012-11-11 15:03:42
can someone please explain what happened here "Remember that save round by 3D versus GameOnline (GoL) at CPL Winter 2002 that changed how Counter-Strike was played?"?
2012-11-11 15:08:01
3d camped b tunnels with deagles in an effort to survive and waste time out to gain money and gol pushed in and got fucked up pretty much....im not sure if it was the first time it was ever done, but it was the first time it worked to such success on such a huge stage.
2012-11-11 15:25:10
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#239
3d lost dust2 terrorist pistol round so they bought deagle armors and camped in b tunnels. back then cts received less money if they won the round by time running out, so it was actually extra bad for them.

gol won the round after losing 3 people (iirc), but had no money on the next round and lost the round, and got demolished in the half, losing the grand final.

next year every team tried to basically save out every second round of the half, and back then the round time was longer as well (2:30 or 3:00) making it extra boring to watch.

in 2003 teams like team9 or sk figured out places like the big red rock to boost up on as well, so eventually they would do that and there'd be no way for the cts to kill them.
2012-11-11 15:42:56
I have a cousin who played on swedish toplevel back in 2003 in the team turtle and this was definitely the case back then. I downloaded some of their HLTV-demos to watch my cousin in action, and at 2nd round at dust2 they bought deagles and camped in b tunnels, holding angles for 3 minutes.

Valve has to fix this right away before this becomes a huge problem in GO aswell. This is probably even more gamebreaking for a spectator then the molotov.

Post edited 2012-11-11 16:45:34
2012-11-11 16:42:48
lurppis +1337
2012-11-11 15:09:22
I realized this money system "defect" for the first time when I saw mouz again A51 (and so did the mouz player according to a german interview) and I immediately remembered some old WCG matches and shaGuar's article from 2003. It's a fucking shame Valve doesn't learn from the past. This is typical for the whole game.

Post edited 2012-11-11 15:10:50
2012-11-11 15:10:25
valve for sure not remove molotov. Just make rules on tournament that molotov are disbaled.

Money price can be fixed via valve not molotov.
2012-11-11 15:10:59
yeah i think molotovs changed the gamestyle!! but lurppis, wont teams adapy n get better over time? or increase round time to bait n waste more molotovs?.. i know tht right now we neeed to balance it
2012-11-11 15:26:43
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#236
i for one don't want to go back to 2:30 or 3min rounds for molotovs, the game is slow enough as it is, and molotovs are only slowing it down more.
2012-11-11 15:37:01
Why wait for valve or tourneys.
Why can't the pro scene get on a common decision and stop using Molotovs [kinda protest against it]
2012-11-11 15:54:51
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#246
because the teams who are better with molotovs will not agree to not use them, knowing it will make their chances of winning smaller. that's how incentives work.
2012-11-11 15:56:14
Hmmm but don't u think that a "PRO Team" needs to know to handle molotovs in game, for example. NIP is the Best cuz they won VG inspite of VG using molotovs, So if a PRO team can't win cuz Semi pro teams use molotovs, then i think the PRO TEAM is not PRO enough. Moreover, in 1.6 we saw that over a period of time the tactics reached a limit, people couldnt do anything different anymore due to mechanics which in CSGO is expanded by using a different mechanics and variation were added like molotovs and decoy grenade, So do u really think its a good idea to limit CS:GO to 1.6 just because the pros have to put more time to get better? because i think GOTV, Movements (strafing- looks like skating left n right when i see my opponent strafe) and other things should be fixed to get more players, Removing molotovs will only see the old teams dominate again, give a chance to new comers.
2012-11-12 02:19:52
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#456
i'm speechless. why am i even in this community?

verygames was good in valencia, they didn't need molotovs. nip was good at eswc, they didn't need to use molotovs vs others who did.

if nip starts losing at some point they will just start abusing them like everyone else, the best teams are the best teams for a reason, and will likely continue to be no matter what shit rules we make (e.g. allowing molotovs at eswc didn't stop nip)
2012-11-12 07:03:04
-Restrict it to 1 per team
-Nerf It.
-Increase the cost of molotovs to 1500$


From the statements u made above, the best teams are best for a reason so PLAY HARD GO PRO. Pointless removing it completely.


//Not supporting this cuz im a semi-pro/ wannabe pro.. I jus want to see more ppl playing and more competition and it shouldnt end in a stalemate like how 1.6 was. To be honest banning riot shield was stupid cuz 9 years ago ppl didn't have the brain or skill to over come it, that shield is useless...tell me if u cant kill a person with riot shield and a pistol (2.5k to buy??) Similarly , think about this down the lane.
2012-11-12 09:03:18
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#464
ROFL you think riot shields should have been allowed? can't tell if you're a troll or just not very bright. i am now done posting.
2012-11-12 09:25:34
Lol i can kill guys with shields until they form the "SPARTANS" like in 300
2012-11-12 17:45:57
SIGNED.
2012-11-11 15:33:59
+1
2012-11-11 15:38:47
remove molotovs tournament organizers
thanks
2012-11-11 15:51:05
I agree with this. But somehow, even if these changes were done, I just can't enjoy watching the CS:GO matches like the 1.6 ones. I don't know why...

Lurppis, if you have contacts at valve, now is the time to send them this article. :D
2012-11-11 15:52:54
Agree on that

There is a little mistake in the text, it says "VeryGames were able to lock down the upper bombsite of de_nuke_se" I guess it's nuke_ve :-)
2012-11-11 15:53:39
I think lurppis, you don't like others opinions, if you don't think like lurppis, you're wrong.

But i don't like molotovs!
2012-11-11 16:04:04
lurppis 4 president
2012-11-11 16:05:32
And so I am thinking in this moment..."Why am I reading this article, I will never play cs:go??" Would be good to put some bazookas and rockets and we have a new Call of Duty :)))
2012-11-11 16:05:37
1.6 was a perfect game..
2012-11-11 16:22:08
agree
2012-11-11 16:24:54
molotovs = guns without silencer = detalization on the map = smoke from the guns = little granades and their phisics = fog on the maps = BIG SHIT = GLOBAL OFFENCIVE
2012-11-11 16:25:54
Only saucers like it.
2012-11-11 16:32:52
Yet that original article was 90% source pros....
2012-11-12 02:03:59
Completely agree with both changes. Molotovs need to be banned from tournaments (or teams simply need to agree not to use them until the tournaments act).

The suggested money system change also needs to happen. Although I think that the varying kill rewards from different weapons also needs to be normalised to $300 per kill (instead of $900 for shotguns, $600 for smgs, $50? for awp etc).

Money is kinda in valve's hands - although I think there may be a console command for it? Or is that only with sv_cheats enabled?

Mollies are completely in the hands of the tournaments - and if they dont act then its completely in the hands of teams/players. If tournaments keep allowing them, and all top teams seem to pretty much agree they're not suitable, then they all need to agree not to use them (and hope to god no one is a massive fuckwit and uses them on a crucial round or something haha).
2012-11-11 16:37:30
there should be a poll for voting : Remove Molotovs or no , i think community should decide this probelm

btw i want know how many ppls are thinking that molotovs should be banned (as i think too)

1. remove molotovs
2.not remove molotovs
2012-11-11 16:40:18
1)
2012-11-11 16:40:34
2)
2012-11-11 16:46:35
34
2012-11-11 16:57:56
All of what you mentioned above is 100% correct to my ears! Valve should stick with the proved systems in 1.6, but maybe tweak it just a little.

Not only the save-rewards are just bullshit, also the different killrewards of surtain guns are out of this world. U'll get 900$ for a kill with a mag7 and only 50$ for an awp kill. what this does is make the awp almost completely useless.

Let Valve change all the above and add the silencer... =D


PS. It's not for nothing that 1.6 sticked with us for 12 years+


Cheers,

Post edited 2012-11-11 16:46:32
2012-11-11 16:42:55
1 each team wud be perfect i think
2012-11-11 16:50:09
How about taking the molotov away from CT but keep it for T (maybe nerfed a little)?
2012-11-11 16:51:00
No, that wouldn't make any sense. Would get imbalanced then.
2012-11-11 16:57:49
sunman will come back with his teammates, save in 2nd round in train as T vs SK, buy deagles and own everyone :o!!
agree with the article
2012-11-11 16:56:26
GO is a cancer itself...
2012-11-11 16:58:21
Failed Cancer, cuz cancer spreads viral... this aint spreading, its healing and killing every GO player
2012-11-12 08:34:58
how about remove CS:GO?
2012-11-11 17:00:24
XDDDDDDDDDDD

That's what i thought!

I don't know why do u still argue about soon dead game?

Valve is shit company, they ruin every good game (DotA, Cs), so deal with it.
2012-11-11 18:12:30
by: jz-
#285
-molotov omg
2012-11-11 17:08:48
VALVE just add some tank's and helicopters for 16k and some bazuka's , flamefrowers for 10k and GG = CS:CITY[CS:GO+VICE-CITY] ... im just kidding but realy molotovs destroy the game and the money sistem to...
2012-11-11 17:21:46
tank wouldn`t fit, what do I do with tank when I rush B at dd2? I`d be forced to stop by tunnels (all teamates run over) and I`d be lucky if some cts peek out to blast them with cannon. Maybe tank can fit to get through cat, maybe...
About helicopter, very good idea. I mean that same helicopter which takes ct to spawn could just take them to T spawn, so we can start shooting them right away.
2012-11-11 17:26:47
"The article does not reflect the opinion of HLTV.org or its affiliates."

Would be so funny if you forgot to replace Heaven Media Ltd with Hltv.org

2012-11-11 17:25:56
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#294
?
2012-11-11 17:29:04
Go back to cadred ladyboi.
2012-11-11 18:46:33
please remove molotovs from competetive games

// Western Wolves
2012-11-11 17:43:31
+1
2012-11-11 17:57:33



Must disagree about fully removing Molotov's, eg if something is too powerful, it just would require tweaking (eg if AK47 would take 200hp per hit, it would not mean only thing can be done is remove whole gun)

My suggestions would be:

-Molotov's are only allowed by Terrorist, remove Incendiary Grenade

-Allow user to buy either HE or Molotov

-Remove slowdown effect

-Tweak lasting time, damage received and area it spreads.


Tweaking all those will make sure Molotov will not be too powerful, but also making sure it does not become useless.


But also Valve..etc could add following:

-If you fall too high and have purchased molotov, it will drop&break and put's player on fire

-Make random "dut" grenades, eg you throw he/molotov/smoke/flash, but they will not blow.

-What more "stuff" you carry, more it slows you down. eg M249+bomb+all grenades+vest = your run half of speed what it would be just with knife.




Post edited 2012-11-11 17:46:02
2012-11-11 17:44:20
"-If you fall too high and have purchased molotov, it will drop&break and put's player on fire"
that makes physically no sense xD
but still you got funny ideas, but i guess not that suitable for pro gaming..

-Allow user to buy either HE or Molotov
-Remove slowdown effect
-Tweak lasting time, damage received and area it spreads.

those points are good for sure.
2012-11-11 18:24:40
How about you play the game at a decent level, then write some critical articles.

Cheers.
2012-11-11 17:47:24
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#333
all the information in my articles comes from top players (basically all of whom want them removed btw) or in the pov of a spectator, who i am obviously qualified to commant as.

cheers
2012-11-11 18:41:51
Don't even bother answering to these idiots.
2012-11-11 18:52:04
I don't know what a commant is, but okay.

I don't disagree with what's said, I'm just tired of hearing this rubbish from people who are completely irrelevant and don't even play the game casually.
2012-11-11 19:45:58
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#371
you are not very bright if you couldn't figure that typo out. try "comment".

i don't see how i am completely irrelevant if i'm one of the main writers of the biggest coverage website for the game, and have a history of playing a similar game professionally for about as long as anyone else.

you are of course titled to your opinion, but i find it funny people who play a game for fun or in some really low level league they know better, especially given the fact i always ask people who actually do play for opinions, instead of just writing my own. :D

Post edited 2012-11-11 19:51:29
2012-11-11 19:51:11
and please remove the fucking sound when you jump but aint running....
2012-11-11 17:49:48
is that the case? lol
do you remember when they added this in 1.6? it was gone in like 3 weeks because the whole community was raging about this (with every right)
2012-11-11 18:19:02
by: qwe
#304
molotov must go away!!!
2012-11-11 17:52:16
molotovs are ridiculous! some teams even combine them with smokes so as terrorist you have to wait ages before you can properly rush a bomside! i know a way how to nerve them: if you trow one it explodes in your face and you end up with 3hp.

more serious:

i would like to see some changes in 'classic competative play' for example there should be an option to continue playing with your team if you win a game. a new enemy would be searched if everyone agrees.

the ranking system should be completed with clear lvls instead of paintings so you can see where you are at lvl 0 - lvl 20.

there should be a ladder system for teams competing in a similar system.

there should be a option to vote for someone that is cheating. Only for someone at your own team. the system could be designed like this: if you are suspected of cheating in 80% of your last 10 games you are banned for 1day or something like that. (i dont think valve has enough capicity to check out every player but these ppl fuck up the system).

there could be an option to search for defusewars ALL or defusewars on competitive maps so the non-smoggy versions and not aztec or vertigo. <- this could be editted as new maps get introduced in the LAN-scene/pro-scene

molotovs: remove them or make them 4500$ (as lurrpis said they make a 4-1 setup possible caz of extra rotationtime so this is superefficient)

decoys: could be more fun if they would shoot a bit more random so there wouldnt be so abvious

a build in 'irc like' war search chat?
2012-11-11 17:54:49
Molotovs ruin the game as we know it and make it slower and boring, also counter perfect-timed strategies that everyone loves. Me, my team and the whole spanish community are against them.
2012-11-11 18:12:28
Damn brought light into how terrible the money system in this game was. Knew it was bad, but there are so many other flaws I didn't know about.. Sad
2012-11-11 18:12:31
nice article...
just wanted to mention:

1.) its nice to read posts on here (likely the most retarded community in the net) that are worth reading. seems like the kidz prefer "neo>all" than have an usefull discussion.

2.) its funny how so many people on here think they have to explain lurppis the game. he is one of the only -very few- high level cs players who doesnt refuse to even talk with this retarded community.

@topic
i am not into this game and 1.6 is/will be the last cs i play so i am not to much into this.
i have watched the first big clash of vg-fnatic and some other games, it bores my as of.

moneysystem is dumb of course, expect this to be fixed soon (dont even know why they did it like this in the first place)

molotovs are of course op. everything is said about this (in the article and some posts)
limiting doesnt work also. it just causes teams to make their setups according to their molotov buys. (like lurppis said in the article)

@lurppis although i can rarely understand why you do this work here, i highly appreciate it.
one of the very few reasons to still visit this kiddy site.

peace
2012-11-11 18:14:19
why do you comment then? and vg didnt play vs fnatic.
2012-11-11 19:04:31
by fnatic i mean nip...
just because i might follow the champions league of cs which i will not for sure if it continues sucking like this
2012-11-11 19:14:13
totally agree molotvs sucks ! and the money gain system in go sucks too !
2012-11-11 18:27:18
The beauty of Counter-Strike sadly has been forgotten. It's depressing that people keep coming up with new ideas, or work arounds for Molotovs... Nothing needs changing, CS was not getting boring, just the graphics were dated, and if anything needed adding all it was, was maps.. People need to stop thinking of ways molotovs can be balanced and realise they just don't need to be there in the first place. 1.6 was the most popular FPS game ever right? (Correct me if I am wrong) - why are people trying to change that?
2012-11-11 18:27:24
cause somebody wants to earn money, thats why.

a game for casuals is worth much more than a good game. thats also why the producer actually dont give a f* what pro players want.

if casuals want firethingy they get firethingy
2012-11-11 18:32:15
atleast try 1 molo each team and see what happens.
coinsystem has to go, its terrible.
2012-11-11 18:35:20
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#340
what will happen is teams will always buy a molotov on the site that gives it the biggest advantage (e.g. b on inferno, b on dust2, alley on train, upper on nuke, etc) and the effect will stay the same, people wont rush.
2012-11-11 18:49:45
totally agree, but i said "atleast" cuz they are never gonna bring it back to how 1.6 players love it. than 1 is better than 5.
now u can counter a bad rotate on inf with 1 molo or play 1 man "on" B. we all know how it works. i think many ppl should do somthing else with there time instead of waiting till the game changes to something that is never gonna happen.
2012-11-11 20:20:39
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#382
that's why as i have mentioned a 100 times now in comments and in the article itself i don't want valve to change them all, i just want all players who don't want them to use them actually go to tournaments and force them to not allow them, which is completely realistic.
2012-11-11 20:23:56
sorry i didnt read the hole thread, i have dyslexia so to much text kills me :)
and indeed, if molo's arnt banned at dreamhack that would be a total failure. but i think your article is gonna make some organizers reconsider.
2012-11-11 20:42:27
"than 1 is better than 5."

But it's a common sense that in the actual situation 0 is better than both 1 and 5 or any other number, so why dealing with something bad for the sake of changing if you can remove it at least temporarily?
2012-11-12 02:30:16
I would love to see the NUKE implemented in go. Makes it look even more like cod! Just like the awesome movement where the character just wont stop walking after letting go the buttons. Also lovin the realistic vague shit that's going on when walking with a sniper zoomed. Omfg, what the fuck are they thinking. Just make it simple if you want it to work. Hated it when playing for 6 hours.
2012-11-11 18:38:43
I think they should let molotovs and they should also add armors etc.
2012-11-11 18:42:03
ofc you are right, as always. Unfortunately Valve is obviously not interested to make any changes to the gameplay, so things will be the way they are when it comes to the moneysystem. Molotovs should simply be ignored by the players...
2012-11-11 18:46:55
good shiet
2012-11-11 18:57:45
make molos only T and add the silencer to the colt = problem solved

cts can still pick up a molo from a dead t

this and/or halve the dmg so you basically CAN run through them

2012-11-11 18:58:00
oh and make "xray" work even when your alive to be able to see your teammates where they are.... the radar sucks... too short range on it
2012-11-11 19:14:07
Oh yea nice! Just like moh warfighter. Let's just fuck up cs guys! I think the best option would have been to just let 1.6 the ruler and boss of every fps game die. And not trying to replace it with a new cs, which i believe the people with a brain have allready noticed it will never be that big of a succes. Too much haters.. aint gonna work.
2012-11-11 19:21:28
dont see why you reply to me?... :)
2012-11-11 19:27:19
The xray shit. Simplify is the way to go. No new shit. If the radar is simplified without seeing the whole map and only red dots who are you're teammates. That would work way better. Keep it competitive not a game that everyone will only "like" and be done with it after a few months.
2012-11-11 19:34:17
i dont see why all the hate for "new" things in cs?...

this IS after all a NEW cs game... dont like it??... play 1.6 or source
2012-11-11 19:51:04
I jus don't get it why people want all those changes when the simple things matter the most. If those are good and fun for everyone. And those small things let you play it for more then 10 years. They have to be right. You can't say they are wrong. Listen to 1.6 ers will give everyone a game that will last... And not be a one night stand. After all that's what everyone is looking for. So stop posting bullshit like more xray. Let us as players get the feeling where we want to KNOW/FEEL where are teammates are. And don't make the screen so crowded by adding that shit. Plz think ty
2012-11-12 08:56:09
you can turn it of you know... -.-
2012-11-12 09:50:55
Yes i know, but you were saying they should add it when the game is live.
2012-11-12 10:30:33
the option... like you can when your dead
2012-11-12 11:06:48
Yes and they shouldnt. Do you even read?
2012-11-14 08:52:00
if you dont like it... just turn it off.... dont see how anyone can be agenst something that dont change the game in anyway... AND dont force you to use it
2012-11-14 08:58:47
RIt does change the game.. because you need to be able to just know where they are by looking at your radar or with the help of communication. It takes a bit of skill and knowledge of the game. If you implement what you are suggesting, it will only take less skill to master the game and be good at it. It's not ment to be a game for everyone to easily master. Doesnt help if you can seeNot your teammates through the wall. Stop being ignorant.
2012-11-14 18:29:40
RIt does change the game.. because you need to be able to just know where they are by looking at your radar or with the help of communication. It takes a bit of skill and knowledge of the game. If you implement what you are suggesting, it will only take less skill to master the game and be good at it. It's not ment to be a game for everyone to easily master. Doesnt help if you can see your teammates through the wall. Stop being ignorant.
2012-11-14 18:29:49
Stop being ignorant.

i loled...
2012-11-14 19:55:18
Hope you can help convince Dreamhack to ban them. It would make it the *perfect* tourney.
2012-11-11 19:03:07
100% agree.
2012-11-11 19:05:29
Since he 'created' the worst group system ever, I'm afraid to read lurppis new ideas. Anyways, the molotov and money system can't get worse, so it's a great idea to change them as soon as possible.
2012-11-11 19:15:39
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#369
actually i didn't create it, i just helped bring it over to cs, and it's at least better than the one currently being used :)
2012-11-11 19:48:09
It's better in your opinion, as I've read most of the people disagree.
2012-11-11 19:58:11
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#376
most people are irrational and illogical.
2012-11-11 19:59:42
I don't think it is your intention, but reading what you said it looke like you're trying to say that if people disagree with you, they're irrational and illogical.

The logical thing, is that everybody faces everybody on a group play, your system is based on seeds, the old system can be ruined by teams that lose on purpose, your system is ruined by it's own conception, a 'weak' team play against the major favorite and that's it, they're already fucked up. While that, the 'medium' team won't ever face that team. It's 100% based on seeds and it's not fair at all.

I don't want to keep talking about this, because I don't think any other tournament will ever use this system anyway.

Post edited 2012-11-11 20:29:52
2012-11-11 20:29:17
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#385
fair = being treated based on your merits. that's what "my" system does.

i said irrational and illogical because people don't understand what i said above, or the fact that two matches are not of equal value (hence the ridiculous outcry of a team losing vs another in round 1 then winning round 3 and advancing over them).

the weak team can still beat the #2 and #3 teams after that and advance, just like in the normal group stage setup.
2012-11-11 20:33:11
lurp man, you are losing it, keep it together bro. We need you xD
2012-11-12 05:48:24
rip cs:go
2012-11-11 19:23:49
Make it able to take down molotovs bhy intergrate a tiny hitbox to them?
If not thrown with careful prescision and timing against skilled teams its *Dutt dutt*/AK/Colt - sound (etc) and there you go - 850$ blown right up in the air for yor opponent.

Nerf these things slighty to begin with -duration, radius, damage over time (epecially as long you are moving/-jumping), slowingeffect (close to zero or zero), fire and smoke effects from mollies, throwing speed.

Put inferno_ce in the standard competitive map rotation. Train is also in need of a new version, and there you have it, molotovs now a balanced item. :D

Post edited 2012-11-11 19:30:57
2012-11-11 19:27:05
Sadly won`t solve problem, as cts can find various methods ot prevent theyr mollies from beign shot down. I`m not even sure if it would be easy enough to hit them.

Post edited 2012-11-11 19:56:01
2012-11-11 19:55:36
It wont "solve" it entirely, but at least it also a adds an extra chance to counter it from a new point of view wich is, kinda based on skill ? -awareness along with rapid aim accuracy or howd to put it.. and just a sweet answer making your opponents eyes hurt a bit as $850 more or less was spend in vain.
2012-11-12 00:17:24
I think that hltv.org is not a proper place for this article. As we all know, devs from Valve have been absolutely unaware of the existence of this site, the community and the importance of hltv as a medium. You should try to publish this on PC Gamer - as news from this magazine's website appear on steam client under counter-stike news tab.
2012-11-11 19:56:17
captain obvious.
2012-11-11 20:16:23
Sadly not for everyone, as you can see
2012-11-11 20:21:19
So this game sux ?
2012-11-11 20:22:49
If i had the chance, i would remove the molotovs from the game, they dont belong in CounterStrike and they cant adjust it, so remove them.

Get the old Counter Terrorist start pistol back "usp" and the old colt "m4a1" with silencer since most people are used to play with silencer and because it gives the player a good "feel" while playing with it.

Money system needs to be changed to and i would like to see that players get to buy ammo themselfs, would make the game alot better.

Awp kill award - I dont know if they have changed it, but when you consider that the awp costs 4750$ why do you only get 50$ for a kill? There is just no way that you can earn the money back from frags, so to be able to keep playing with awp you would have to save almost each round with the awp, so you dont lose it.

Defuse kit, why do it need to cost 400$ ? Before you could buy grenades and weapon and still be able to buy defuse kit because you still got 200$ left to spend.

Kill award system - 1 thing i would like to see is that they change the money system for weapon kills, 300$ from a kill no matter what weapon the frag is made with.
2012-11-11 20:25:57
instead of a wall of text just say "make it like 1.6"

about the awp only giving $50 is ok... since it rewards a good awp... how?.... by not dying! = no need to buy more awps. you get the most money from winning rounds anyway.

continuing to the $300 only thing... i like the idea about you get more for a "bad" weapon, making low buys a god investment

the def kit... its a good thing to have it at $400. why?... becus now you have to buy them in a smart way now instead of the standard everyone "just" buys one... when even have one if you can buy one every round? then just make deffing to 5 sec permament..

the molotov is a cool new thing, but its just too powerfull atm.. but valve are making a update here before dreamhack where they have nerfed the molotov big times, so it becomes allmost not woth bying (fribergs words)
2012-11-12 11:18:37
Molotovs belongs in CoD or something like that.
2012-11-22 20:51:27
you can go keep saying that.... wont change the fact there in the game... + there pretty much useless atm
2012-11-22 20:58:04
Keep talking boy.
2012-11-23 18:25:56
funny you call me a "boy" since your just a teen
2012-11-24 01:11:56
Can't you just shut up? You are acting like a boy with that child like behavior.
2012-11-25 13:57:37
im not the one starting to go all "Keep talking boy."

and i just pointed facts
2012-11-25 16:37:21
lurppis, GJ!
2012-11-11 20:34:06
Dear Valve,
Me as a spectator I want to see players in CS to carry guns and shot from it. I want to see big highlights with f0rest shooting five one bullet headshots to win a round.

I do NOT want to see a player who blinded throw molotov and win a game. Or I dont want to see two players throwing their grenades to deny each other grenades. What highlights we will get ? It is not tactical even interesting, it is not counter-strike its volley-strike.

Please do NOT try to change counter-strike u have already changed it a lot.

sry 4 my eng

Post edited 2012-11-11 20:45:09
2012-11-11 20:42:52
one of the best articles i've read about improving a game. im not a big fan of you lurppis but that was really great, gj
2012-11-11 20:50:29
Give the ct's two flashs and silencer and remove incendiary, limit one flash by tr and nerf mollie damage.

2012-11-11 21:42:16
I miss 1.6 :(
2012-11-11 21:56:16
not sure if this has been said, but the main reason mollies don't work (besides that they are dumb) is that the classic maps (inferno,train,d2,nuke,etc) weren't made with mollies in mind. Neither has the 1.45min round time changed. Either change the maps to have wider chokepoints and give 2-2.15m per round or just get rid of mollies. But dont try and force mollies into a system that was designed without mollies in mind
2012-11-11 22:08:23
I do not understand any changes in gameplay made by Valve... They shouldn't touch things like cash rewards cause it worked fine for 12 years.
2012-11-11 22:26:09
Molotovs should be banned on competitive scene, if not, players should agree to not use molotov as gentlemens, about money system has to be changed, but csgo have less than a year, i think they will fix this :)
2012-11-11 22:36:09
couldn't agree more
2012-11-11 22:59:37
We need a ANTI-MOLOTOV that you can through the fire
2012-11-11 23:01:29
lol anti molotov kevlar... why dont hire some firemens?
2012-11-11 23:27:52
or we need to buy some bulbasaurs to deny fire, cmon
2012-11-12 06:49:20
Molotovs, allowing shit gamers to hold bombsites since 2012
2012-11-11 23:32:35
molotov stop this game! REMOVE THIS
2012-11-11 23:43:38
remove
2012-11-12 00:06:01
Keep molotovs put some asses on fire!
Seriously, keep it. I said keep it
2012-11-12 00:06:42
Here's my current list of issues/bugs in CS:GO. Right now I haven't listed the molotov as an issue but I might...

http://www.willamp.com/csgo/csgo.txt

Post edited 2012-11-12 00:48:42
2012-11-12 00:48:32
I think 1 molotov per round is good. more than 1 is too OP
2012-11-12 01:29:48
Amazing bro, pls do post it on steam.com as well, so that valve realises.
2012-11-14 17:04:37
I would rather have here CS:S2 than this CS:GO which is borring to watch and play. If this is plan how to unite both communities to beg for CS:S2 bravo its working great!
2012-11-12 01:48:21
ban this shit valve
2012-11-12 04:40:27
pub server,16vs16,
16 molotovs = disaster
2012-11-12 06:47:46
Agreed!
Molotovs gone! and the money system fixed!
If valve does not consider molotovs, boycott!
2012-11-12 07:26:03
I think that molotovs are a part of game . Yes , they are pretty powerfull , what makes them able to hold a rush or something but ithey make T think about taking CT's molotovs . Tactics become more tough and interesting. As for T side , afer planting a. Bomb T arr able to block the site .
It's a new game , its not 1.6 anymore , I don't think we should argue about this new thing , but to get on with it and make tactics considering molotovs firs .
2012-11-12 08:12:19
I agree with you to 100% lurppis!

The molos need to go and the money system is bullcrap :)
2012-11-12 08:43:49
what about nerf molotovs?
reduce - speed 30 %
- dmg 50 %
- reduce cost i.e 400-500 $

or molotov takes 2 slots of granades
or you have to choose HE/molotov only 1 of them

they will slow down rush but not 100% stop it


Post edited 2012-11-12 09:59:13
2012-11-12 09:57:37
basically, in short, bad players wouldnt mind molotovs to stay. for pros and high-skill players its nono for sure.
2012-11-12 13:42:04
remove molotov from the game
2012-11-12 18:39:28
why is this kid still talking about csgo?
2012-11-12 22:21:17
This is a good article
2012-11-12 23:52:27
I had an epiphany about molotovs last night.

What the game needs is to allow us to buy Fire suits (like a better-stronger-more expensive full body kevlar)
2012-11-13 07:22:43
or valve can do so that you can buy water balloons and throw them at the fire that sounded as stupid as your comment..

No molotovs in comdedetive gameplay, easy!
2012-11-13 07:26:43
This is the kind of open minded thinking we need in the counter striking community. This isn't suppose to be a 'bugs bunny' shooter like team fortress two, cs is a realistic tactical shooter based on real counter terrorist's attempts to eradicate evil doers in the world. Given this knowledge I think the existence of equipment such as Molotov's should exist. Further more the idea of fire repellant suits is a great one... Another potential idea is having defuse kids be Hurt Locker-esque bomb squad suits where you have a much larger model based on real counter terrorist bomb armor and move slower when having one equipped.

Lets make this game what it should be.

God Bless.
2012-11-13 07:33:52
100% agree - Molotovs have to go.

molotovs is a Joke! so funny~~~
2012-11-13 11:02:06
Oh shut it.
There is no way to nerf molotovs without making them uninteresting.
Just remove them completely.
2012-11-14 11:51:24
1st pls shut this game CS GO or build in graphics which are simpler and like CS promod, or it wont be interesting and also the maps more stuffed. Man lot of vehicles, trees, barrels, this makes the game very slow. LOL.
2012-11-14 16:11:33
It should not be blocked / removed because it is something new in the game, as in other recent games is always something nowego.Bez Molotovs this game reminds me of 1.6; <
2012-11-14 19:03:25
Molotov forces players to make smarter strategies, I don't see how it can be bad.


Post edited 2012-11-15 00:20:59
2012-11-15 00:20:36
I don't see why people should be so bitter and mean-spirited - there are good intentions behind wanting to keep new things in the game. However in this case it's best to trust the pro players, and it seems they are coming out in force against it.

I think the problem is simply that the concept of a molotov/incendiary in a game like CS is fundamentally too powerful. To be able to deny an area for the enemy to move for any period of time is just game-breaking. Normally, it would be possible to reduce the strength of something, or tweak it, etc., to keep it in the game, but in this case it just so happens that it won't work for this particular item in question. Unless the item is nerfed into oblivion (i.e. being non-functional in its role) it will still be game-breaking as long as it's serving its role in some function.

If you were to nerf it though, I think the idea of having an HE or a molotov (but not both) is an excellent idea. Reducing the duration is also a good idea. Something like 3-4s maximum would be acceptable.

In any case, I think as it stands it needs to be banned immediately and sent back to the drawing board. To all the players with good intentions, we respect you, but take the recommendations of the pro players to heart on this one.

edit:
Also, I wanted to bring up an earlier poster's excellent comment (entfy): a big reason why molotovs are the way they are is the incredible bottlenecks present in our current set of maps. Something to ponder on.

Post edited 2013-01-17 10:05:14
2013-01-17 09:58:01

Login or register to add your comment to the discussion.