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PROG4MER
Why the movement in CS:GO should be fixed
2012-09-22 19:53
Hi guys! I found an extremely well written blog by orb at TeamLiquid that explained why an esportgame needs to be hard (with some starcraftanalogies) to be succesful, so I decided to rewrite it but in a CS-theme, and the topic will be the current airmovement.
The current airmovement is a low skillcap mechanic. What I mean by this is that you do not need any fancy moves (nor is it possible) that you've practiced to use your airmovement effectively. You just jump and thats it. The only thing you can do is some very limited bunnyjumping to increase the effectiveness of your movement, but nothing more then that. The other mechanics are low skillcapmechanics aswell, but this is not what I will focus on in this blog.
But why is this bad? Well to understand it in the first place let's look at why this is good, and the design philosophy Valve seems to be approaching the game with.
There are two main conflicting philosophies for game design in this context that apply to Counter-Strike. The first is that you design a game that will be fun to watch and will inspire people to play. This philosophy relies on esports viewership enjoying watching the game and wanting to emulate what they see in pro matches on their own. For example, in 1.6 you might watch a ESC-gaming match with neo, where you see him absolutely demolishing people with some cute little movementtricks and/or his general movementskills, and you might get inspired to try this yourself.
Since movement in CS 1.6 is difficult, you may fail at first. With a little practice, however, you too can enjoy the fun. The second design philosophy (which seems to be what Valve is employing) is to create a game that everyone can easily grasp and understand, and thus you attract new players because they are not discouraged by the game being difficult. With this approach, viewers can watch pros demolishing everything with some CS:GO movement, and then even if they are total noobs, they too can enjoy the fun of moving like a pro around the maps (Here's the secret: no one thinks CS:GO movement is fun after a couple of times, and maybe not even to begin with).
The inherent problem here is the idea of replayability. When a game is too easy, it is fun the first couple times and then completely loses its charm and gets boring. I love Portal to death, but once you understand the puzzles and what you are supposed to do, it is so easy upon playing a second time through that it is just not fun or worth the time anymore. In order for video games to continue being played for years instead of taking the route of pretty much every single EA title, they need to have some inherent difficulty that is not knowledge based (because anything that's only difficult because you don't know what to do will no longer be difficult once you understand the solution). This is where execution and tactics in Counter-Strike 1.6 come in. If the game was only tactics and no hard mechanics, it would get boring extremely quickly and there is no way it would be an esport. It's the simple difficulty of executing a tricky task that makes playing CS 1.6 so fun no matter how many times you have already played it. The problem with Valve's design philosophy is that it overestimates the pros of low-difficulty, and underestimates the pros of high-difficulty.
Low difficulty mechanics
Pros: Newbies get less frustrated because there are less things to mess up.
Cons: Ever wondered why CS:GO is loosing players rapidly? These same newbies get bored quickly because there is nothing exciting to do (as all the excitement died after the first couple times executing something so easy).Esports is delegitimized and experiences more variance due to a lower skill cap and less opportunities for pros to excel. Pro matches are not fun to watch because any newbie could execute what they see just as well as the pros (obviously this is an extreme example taken to hyperbole). The game does not last nearly as long in popularity because there are no inherently rewarding things to do.
High difficulty mechanics
Pros: Newbies get inspired to actually spend time playing the game because they see professional players doing amazing moves that they didn't even know/think were possible. It encourages them to continue playing the game because they still have many things they haven't mastered. Players actually enjoy the game because there is an inherent enjoyment in having practiced something difficult and executing it correctly. Pro matches are more fun to watch and esports flourishes because people LOVE watching other people do things they can't do (don't believe me? Just look at the olympics... pro sports... COUNTER-STRIKE 1.6). The game's shelf life is extended tremendously due to the increased enjoyment in replayability.
Cons: Newbies get more frustrated because they cannot perform tactics they see professionals use upon first try and must actually spend some modicum of time practicing.
So now that I've explained why having difficult mechanics is important, let's look at the movement. There is absolutely no room to be creative here, and the movement itself isn't hard either. You do not have to practice at all because it is meaningless, the only thing you can do is bunnyjumping to a very small extent which most of the time is useless so you just sit there using wasd, bored out of your mind because you're frustrated because the game limits you so much. Pro matches will never be inspiring to anyone, because they know they could execute exactly what the pro is doing just as well (not hard to bunnyjump).
This is why I do believe that the movement needs fixing. I would emplore Valve to look at the design philosophies that made CS 1.6 so unbelievably popular and long-lasting. .
When you watch KZ-players or some very talented proplayers utilizing their incredible movementskills, it might look incredibly complicated and you can be assured that a newbie would not pick up CS and do these things perfectly in his first day, but in actuality it looks beatiful in pro matches and it's not so difficult to emulate at a low level. You might not be able to move as fluently as the pros, you might not be able to perform the longer jumps. But hey, you are still going to be able to execute a few jumps with a reasonable level of enjoyment no matter what level of player you are.
This is how I feel Valve should embrace every mechanic in the game. Make a mechanic that is difficult to use perfectly, so that it's fun to use every time and will inspire viewers. If you make an easy-to-use mechanic like the current airmovement, you might not discourage newbies at first but you certainly won't encourage them to continue playing, as it actually isn't fun after a while.
You may enjoy color-by-numbers as a 3-year-old because it's not overwhelming and you get some guidance. Once you reach any reasonable age, however, these types of "easy-mode" activities hold no enjoyment. Adults generally prefer activities with some reasonable level of inherent masterable difficulty.
So why is this game being designed for children when it is rated 18+ by pegi.com?
Your thoughts on this?
EDIT:
forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=32896727#post32896727
steamforums post, please show your support there by rating the thread and commenting!
EDIT2:
I posted this on cadred aswell, unfortunately they removed the thread and banned me :( too bad. I'm pretty sure I just got banned because of Richard Lewis personal agenda (he was basically stalking me earlier and got mad when I confronted him) versus me and not the content tho, so it'd be great if anyone here would like to repost my blog there :)
The current airmovement is a low skillcap mechanic. What I mean by this is that you do not need any fancy moves (nor is it possible) that you've practiced to use your airmovement effectively. You just jump and thats it. The only thing you can do is some very limited bunnyjumping to increase the effectiveness of your movement, but nothing more then that. The other mechanics are low skillcapmechanics aswell, but this is not what I will focus on in this blog.
But why is this bad? Well to understand it in the first place let's look at why this is good, and the design philosophy Valve seems to be approaching the game with.
There are two main conflicting philosophies for game design in this context that apply to Counter-Strike. The first is that you design a game that will be fun to watch and will inspire people to play. This philosophy relies on esports viewership enjoying watching the game and wanting to emulate what they see in pro matches on their own. For example, in 1.6 you might watch a ESC-gaming match with neo, where you see him absolutely demolishing people with some cute little movementtricks and/or his general movementskills, and you might get inspired to try this yourself.
Since movement in CS 1.6 is difficult, you may fail at first. With a little practice, however, you too can enjoy the fun. The second design philosophy (which seems to be what Valve is employing) is to create a game that everyone can easily grasp and understand, and thus you attract new players because they are not discouraged by the game being difficult. With this approach, viewers can watch pros demolishing everything with some CS:GO movement, and then even if they are total noobs, they too can enjoy the fun of moving like a pro around the maps (Here's the secret: no one thinks CS:GO movement is fun after a couple of times, and maybe not even to begin with).
The inherent problem here is the idea of replayability. When a game is too easy, it is fun the first couple times and then completely loses its charm and gets boring. I love Portal to death, but once you understand the puzzles and what you are supposed to do, it is so easy upon playing a second time through that it is just not fun or worth the time anymore. In order for video games to continue being played for years instead of taking the route of pretty much every single EA title, they need to have some inherent difficulty that is not knowledge based (because anything that's only difficult because you don't know what to do will no longer be difficult once you understand the solution). This is where execution and tactics in Counter-Strike 1.6 come in. If the game was only tactics and no hard mechanics, it would get boring extremely quickly and there is no way it would be an esport. It's the simple difficulty of executing a tricky task that makes playing CS 1.6 so fun no matter how many times you have already played it. The problem with Valve's design philosophy is that it overestimates the pros of low-difficulty, and underestimates the pros of high-difficulty.
Low difficulty mechanics
Pros: Newbies get less frustrated because there are less things to mess up.
Cons: Ever wondered why CS:GO is loosing players rapidly? These same newbies get bored quickly because there is nothing exciting to do (as all the excitement died after the first couple times executing something so easy).Esports is delegitimized and experiences more variance due to a lower skill cap and less opportunities for pros to excel. Pro matches are not fun to watch because any newbie could execute what they see just as well as the pros (obviously this is an extreme example taken to hyperbole). The game does not last nearly as long in popularity because there are no inherently rewarding things to do.
High difficulty mechanics
Pros: Newbies get inspired to actually spend time playing the game because they see professional players doing amazing moves that they didn't even know/think were possible. It encourages them to continue playing the game because they still have many things they haven't mastered. Players actually enjoy the game because there is an inherent enjoyment in having practiced something difficult and executing it correctly. Pro matches are more fun to watch and esports flourishes because people LOVE watching other people do things they can't do (don't believe me? Just look at the olympics... pro sports... COUNTER-STRIKE 1.6). The game's shelf life is extended tremendously due to the increased enjoyment in replayability.
Cons: Newbies get more frustrated because they cannot perform tactics they see professionals use upon first try and must actually spend some modicum of time practicing.
So now that I've explained why having difficult mechanics is important, let's look at the movement. There is absolutely no room to be creative here, and the movement itself isn't hard either. You do not have to practice at all because it is meaningless, the only thing you can do is bunnyjumping to a very small extent which most of the time is useless so you just sit there using wasd, bored out of your mind because you're frustrated because the game limits you so much. Pro matches will never be inspiring to anyone, because they know they could execute exactly what the pro is doing just as well (not hard to bunnyjump).
This is why I do believe that the movement needs fixing. I would emplore Valve to look at the design philosophies that made CS 1.6 so unbelievably popular and long-lasting. .
When you watch KZ-players or some very talented proplayers utilizing their incredible movementskills, it might look incredibly complicated and you can be assured that a newbie would not pick up CS and do these things perfectly in his first day, but in actuality it looks beatiful in pro matches and it's not so difficult to emulate at a low level. You might not be able to move as fluently as the pros, you might not be able to perform the longer jumps. But hey, you are still going to be able to execute a few jumps with a reasonable level of enjoyment no matter what level of player you are.
This is how I feel Valve should embrace every mechanic in the game. Make a mechanic that is difficult to use perfectly, so that it's fun to use every time and will inspire viewers. If you make an easy-to-use mechanic like the current airmovement, you might not discourage newbies at first but you certainly won't encourage them to continue playing, as it actually isn't fun after a while.
You may enjoy color-by-numbers as a 3-year-old because it's not overwhelming and you get some guidance. Once you reach any reasonable age, however, these types of "easy-mode" activities hold no enjoyment. Adults generally prefer activities with some reasonable level of inherent masterable difficulty.
So why is this game being designed for children when it is rated 18+ by pegi.com?
Your thoughts on this?
EDIT:
forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=32896727#post32896727
steamforums post, please show your support there by rating the thread and commenting!
EDIT2:
I posted this on cadred aswell, unfortunately they removed the thread and banned me :( too bad. I'm pretty sure I just got banned because of Richard Lewis personal agenda (he was basically stalking me earlier and got mad when I confronted him) versus me and not the content tho, so it'd be great if anyone here would like to repost my blog there :)
I hope this reaches Valve somehow. I intend on making a steamforums thread later on with a link to this blog and your reactions.
I feel that this is important and that Valve needs to adopt another mentality to the game in every single way as I don't find CS:GO to be good in a single way at the moment (but we'll begin with the movement). I found the game very fun to play in the beginning, but later on I got bored exactly as described in this blog (5 headshots on the pistolrounds with the p250 wasn't as enjoyable anymore after the first 4 times).
I feel that this is important and that Valve needs to adopt another mentality to the game in every single way as I don't find CS:GO to be good in a single way at the moment (but we'll begin with the movement). I found the game very fun to play in the beginning, but later on I got bored exactly as described in this blog (5 headshots on the pistolrounds with the p250 wasn't as enjoyable anymore after the first 4 times).
Valve nerfed CS movement after patch 1.3, so 1.6 is already nerfed.
Also, If u would compare to game like quake osp or cpma movement perfection would take years, and no noobs really start playing it. I tried to teach cpma to a few cs 'pros' like shatte few years ago but they were so bad and got frustrated and stopped playing the same week ... so no wonder they prefer cs:go
Also, If u would compare to game like quake osp or cpma movement perfection would take years, and no noobs really start playing it. I tried to teach cpma to a few cs 'pros' like shatte few years ago but they were so bad and got frustrated and stopped playing the same week ... so no wonder they prefer cs:go
Pffft.
CS:GO has amazing movement.
It was hard first times, but now, I'm doing strafe jumps easily.
CS:GO has amazing movement.
It was hard first times, but now, I'm doing strafe jumps easily.
"Amazing"? Do you realize that there isnt any movement in CS:GO at all(compared to 1.6)?
Post edited 2012-09-22 20:07:09
Post edited 2012-09-22 20:07:09
You do realise there is no movement at all in 1.6 compared to 1.3/1.1/1?
I have never played any CS versions except 1.6, CZ and now GO. But as far as i am aware, the only difference between 1.6 movement compared to its earlier versions is the jump delay which the earlier versions didnt had. And imo it was a good addition to counterstrike 1.x.
You think that it was a good addition *now*, much later, and having never played the original. In other words, you have an entirely different perspective than you do with CSGO and 1.6, having started with 1.6 and not with GO. At the time it was removed, bunny hopping was integral to the game and to the movement. It was a skill you needed to acquire and use well in order to succeed. That is precisely what is being argued is lost with GO's movement vs. 1.6.
note: I don't play GO (played the beta about 15 mins) and do not have the faintest care what the movement is like. I'm not arguing it should or shouldn't be changed, but only trying to point out a similarity between the differences between 1.3/1.6 and 1.6/GO in regard to movement :)
note: I don't play GO (played the beta about 15 mins) and do not have the faintest care what the movement is like. I'm not arguing it should or shouldn't be changed, but only trying to point out a similarity between the differences between 1.3/1.6 and 1.6/GO in regard to movement :)
And what has that to do with anything? People love 1.6. Not 1.3, 1.1 and so on even though they were nice version aswell.
you do realise that that 1.3,1.1,1 was unoptimised ? o.O loltard ^^
Was it? 1.0 was released as the retail version, indicated in it's version, 1.0.
Please don't comment on things you obviously have zero clue about.
Please don't comment on things you obviously have zero clue about.
movement in cs versions older than 1.6 was really bugged, you were floating along with flying legs ffs :D. It was too glitchy to compare to 1.6. What you are saying is "we should make everyone move like speed hacks, it will be better".
Erm, again do you people have no reading comprehension? My point is simple, 1.6 isn't the original version of the game nor was it the retail version. Give GO time.
knowing how much experience valve have in making games, and how little they listen to the community, i doubt giving GO time will make a difference.
(and p.s. its not our understanding of what you write that is the problem, you just suck at getting your point across :D)
(and p.s. its not our understanding of what you write that is the problem, you just suck at getting your point across :D)
Yes, Valve the developers of games such as TF2 and Dota2, don't listen to the community.. don't be ridiculous.
Not my fault your understanding of the English language is poor, but continue posting complete drivel.
Not my fault your understanding of the English language is poor, but continue posting complete drivel.
online argument here we go, hurray!
Valve dont listen, people wanted the ability to duck under the trains on the train map but valve said no, so in my eyes, no they don't listen to the community.
Valve dont listen, people wanted the ability to duck under the trains on the train map but valve said no, so in my eyes, no they don't listen to the community.
Its not amazing just because it differs from 1.6's movement?
Please leave CS:GO alone and play your CSP. It would be more useful
Please leave CS:GO alone and play your CSP. It would be more useful
This attitude of yours is bullshit. It's not because it differs, it's because it's worse.
Its bullshit? Really? Thats the best argument I got from you so far.
Tell me more.
Tell me more.
You only like it because it differs from 1.6, not because it's good.
Actually, 1.6's movement is better than GO's (at least for me)
But when you play GO daily, you really enjoy it, too.
Post edited 2012-09-22 20:38:43
But when you play GO daily, you really enjoy it, too.
Post edited 2012-09-22 20:38:43
Please describe the "amazing" movement of CS:GO.
Its about feeling, actually.
Unfortunately, you can't feel it. Maybe because you are stuck in the past and bad at adaptation
Unfortunately, you can't feel it. Maybe because you are stuck in the past and bad at adaptation
Have you read the blog? I'm not talking about feeling, t's not about feeling, it's about how skillful it is. Also it's pretty uncommon to find the CS:GO airmovementfeel nice..
Show me a movie of your amazing strafe jumps? :)
If you watched yesterdays streams, you probably already saw how bunny hopping is posssible in GO.
make a video u making tis kind of movement in CSGO. if u do. i cut my dick and make a video.
You'll cut your penis??? OMG
Actually, its very little (common for indonesians), so I don't think its a big deal...
Actually, its very little (common for indonesians), so I don't think its a big deal...
why u talking abt indonesians to me? u think my flag is indo? go study pls.and iam waiting for ur "amazing" movement .
Its Indonesian flag, uneducated moron.
look my profile. see wad country it is. man ur so dumb. LOLOL keeep sayin its indo twice.*FACEPALM*
Your stupidity has no limits. Every post shows how pathetic your life is.
The flag shown before your nickname is Indonesian.
The flag shown before your nickname is Indonesian.
Perfect blog. 10/10. I bought CS:GO but i dony like it. And movement is the biggest reason. I just hate the movement in CS:GO. If movement is fixed and made as smooth as in 1.6, i am damn sure many people who have left CS:GO and went back to 1.6 will try the game again. Maps arnt the issue as they can be made by community.
valve wants to address the majority of players. they want everyone to be able to enjoy the game. and that includes children, casual players, and unfortunately console players as well. this is the reason why the game is so simplified and offers you everything on silver plate. all the loading screen tips, in-game popups, achievements and similar trash.. you know what I'm sayin'? the movement was simplified as well. I can only hardly imagine doing a bhop, longjump, let alone groundstrafe or edgebug on xbox. but this is a general problem of today's games. they are all fucking SIMPLE. Watch this video to see what I mean. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1ZtBCpo0eU
Wow, nice video.
sorry editing
dont do drugs.
Post edited 2012-09-22 22:27:57
dont do drugs.
Post edited 2012-09-22 22:27:57
optimization PATCH NEEDED !!!!!
40fps max in this shity game.
In mw3 i have 120..
Of course its my low pc..
40fps max in this shity game.
In mw3 i have 120..
Of course its my low pc..
i got 150-250 fps and on medicore pc. 40fps? it has to be like 6yo pc.
40fps max, when i'm on ct spawn on de_train and looking the floor...
But mw3 has better graphic, so it have to be game problem, not my pc...
But mw3 has better graphic, so it have to be game problem, not my pc...
what settings u use? what is your pc config?
everyting low, cause difference between high and low is very small and not worth extra fps.
my pc config in profile, when i look on the floor its like 400fps
Post edited 2012-09-22 22:12:11
Post edited 2012-09-22 22:12:11
+1
look on the floor its like 400fps
look on the floor its like 400fps
with your config you should have better fps. tried formatting/reinstalling windows? also, clean the dust of your pc and let it open, how is the temperature? use realtemp
Post edited 2012-09-22 23:45:34
Post edited 2012-09-22 23:45:34
Even my Macbook with onboard gfx gets 60fps, sounds like there is something else in play with yours..
Im getting 60 - 120 fps on my C2D 2.0 Gz laptop.Its optimized pretty well.
But your fps is jumping, this is optimization problem...
it is not optimization problem since noone in go uses fps limiter, every game on the earth has jumping fps value when it is not capped.
why bother change it at all, I doubt the game will even last a year. This game is already dying, source+1.6 has like 5 times more players playing at this moment. This game should perish as all of the other shitty games
wait.. what did you just say.. do you rly think that cs:go should accomplish 1.6+source numbers in 2months when 1.6 has been sold like 14 years now in one way or another and source like 8 years?
according to your statement 2 months wort of purchased copies of cs:go should easily beat source's 8years & 1.6's 14years sooo.. 22 years against 2months.. HMMMMMMMMMMMMM nice logic fellow citizen :) in the year 2011 counter-strike franchise had sold 27 million copies. so basicly in order for cs:go to surpass those numbers in 2 months they should sell 442 thousand copies per day which makes like 18 thousand per hour, which makes 307 per minute & over 5 copies every second..
so please dont compare these two, atleast as of yet.
according to your statement 2 months wort of purchased copies of cs:go should easily beat source's 8years & 1.6's 14years sooo.. 22 years against 2months.. HMMMMMMMMMMMMM nice logic fellow citizen :) in the year 2011 counter-strike franchise had sold 27 million copies. so basicly in order for cs:go to surpass those numbers in 2 months they should sell 442 thousand copies per day which makes like 18 thousand per hour, which makes 307 per minute & over 5 copies every second..
so please dont compare these two, atleast as of yet.
Your logic is like a crack whore, fucked.
So according to your logic, you would need to sell 27 million cs:gos to have around 60k players?
Borderlands 2 was just released (four times more expensive than cs:go) and it has 6 times more players already. Why isn't cs:go this popular?
The amount of players (in cs:go) has been declining lately, and I see no reason why it would change.
So according to your logic, you would need to sell 27 million cs:gos to have around 60k players?
Borderlands 2 was just released (four times more expensive than cs:go) and it has 6 times more players already. Why isn't cs:go this popular?
The amount of players (in cs:go) has been declining lately, and I see no reason why it would change.
does not remove the fact that over 27 million people own 1.6 & source so its not a surprise to have 60k players online. borderlands 2 goes mad no doubt about it. still, imo we just need to sit back(play the game we individually like) and see what happens. its impossible to predict everything so no need for all this shit talking & analytics.
Also, if you want to read the original post (sc2ish) made by orb, go here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?to..
all credits to him really
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?to..
all credits to him really
the whole game needs to be changed and fixed
wait for promod
wait for promod
Couldn't agree more. I've watched NiP play and it isn't as fun to see someone(who's considered to be the best atm) play. There's no juice in it. It looks dry and boring. I try to watch but it's not the same as watching 1.6 imo. I cannot be inspired. The only thing I'm thinking when watching the games is, "where's the excitment the commentators are picking up on?". I don't see it. Someone can do an ace and I don't get it. Maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit but it's still not there imo...
"Easy to learn, hard to master", said a SC2 dev about what's important for e-sport games.
Post edited 2012-09-22 20:24:08
"Easy to learn, hard to master", said a SC2 dev about what's important for e-sport games.
Post edited 2012-09-22 20:24:08
+1
I personally don't like cs:go because of the mouvements
Compared to 1.6 its very hard to strafe
Besides Bhoping is nearly impossible
The only good thing in CS:GO is the graphics
otherwise ,its a fucking shitty game
Compared to 1.6 its very hard to strafe
Besides Bhoping is nearly impossible
The only good thing in CS:GO is the graphics
otherwise ,its a fucking shitty game
put it simply, the competitive level is too low to compete with cs1.6, deaded or not :P
Btw when promod will be released?
before CSGO -> after CSGO -> September -> ?
good joke .
Post edited 2012-09-22 21:00:33
before CSGO -> after CSGO -> September -> ?
good joke .
Post edited 2012-09-22 21:00:33
I did not read the whole blog as I didn't have time, but you are absolutely right.
Well, after all, CS:GO (Valve) chose to stay with the classic Counter-Strike maps, but still they seem to forget the main factors of 1.6 being so succesful. I'm talking about the movement and recoil. I agree that we need a new game - the technology and community are moving forward but why not keep the most succesful factors? 1.6 is still being played to a great extent after a almost a decade. If CS:GO adopted the movement and the recoil, I am sure we will have a new designed Counter-Strike that will take the world by storm - not only the competitive scene but also by the one's playing for fun.
Well, after all, CS:GO (Valve) chose to stay with the classic Counter-Strike maps, but still they seem to forget the main factors of 1.6 being so succesful. I'm talking about the movement and recoil. I agree that we need a new game - the technology and community are moving forward but why not keep the most succesful factors? 1.6 is still being played to a great extent after a almost a decade. If CS:GO adopted the movement and the recoil, I am sure we will have a new designed Counter-Strike that will take the world by storm - not only the competitive scene but also by the one's playing for fun.
As a CS:GO fan I do actually agree on that the movement should be a bit more like in 1.6. It make you feel so light and so free. It would also give you the opportunity to surprise your opponent.
n1
n1
just give us the movement we can adapt to recoil and maps without problems
Brace yourself guys, the official GO forums are now in HLTV.org.
I agree with the OP, CSGO needs a better player movement.
Post edited 2012-09-22 22:26:33
I agree with the OP, CSGO needs a better player movement.
Post edited 2012-09-22 22:26:33
agreed, bring back difficulty in games. like dark souls, where you are on your own, a world of things to learn, to master, and to explore.
Post edited 2012-09-22 22:50:57
Post edited 2012-09-22 22:50:57
The thing is, when Valve decided to make CS:GO, they also decided that it will NOT be on pc only this time, as it was with previous cs versions and it was a fail move actually, they thought that it will get really big on consoles and on pc, but you have to admit - it failed big on consoles, so why now they just can't focus on PC players and fix that movement and other stuff to get this game perfect atleast on pc!? You can't really bunnyhop or do sick movement tricks on concole as you can on pc and i hope that they will not fail this time with their decision and they will listen to pc gamers and focus on pc version as a MAIN version, because who made cs so popular as it is today? Ofcourse WE - PC GAMERS!
Post edited 2012-09-22 22:49:33
Post edited 2012-09-22 22:49:33
true story
too long to read... summary plz
summary: CS:GO's movement is too easy, therefore people will get bored of the game and quit.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.p..
steamforums post, please show your support there by rating the thread and commenting!
steamforums post, please show your support there by rating the thread and commenting!
I've been competitive 1.6 player and now made myself back as casual player(again).I am absolutely agree with this post, before I became a competitive 1.6 player I spent most of the times on public server(11+ hours tbh, I threw my life away that moment for only 1.6) trying to master ALL 1.6 skill yet, as of now Im still not able to master ALL 1.6 skill. I became unmotivated and fed up with the competitive scene because there is so much pro player at lan and what Im doing is not enough to even with them. Anyway it was fun learning experience that time because we had this cs community in server, and everyone recognized and labeled you as 'pro' because you deserved that. The 'pro' title is what makes you different from normal casual players and thats the most important thing for fps games in term of esport scene.
I'm 100% with you.
fun fact: cadred instabanned me when I posted this thread over there. No CS:GO feedback (atleast not from me) allowed :-)
stupid question but i need an answer why doesnt the recoil move up down left right like 1.6 :S? COD recoil tbh
Post edited 2012-09-23 00:16:31
Post edited 2012-09-23 00:16:31
Maps really need an overhaul. If CSGO did not have any competitive gameplay handicap when it was developed, why are pros mostly using custom maps for tournaments? Mirage looks best by far, no clutter.
I think the engine Source is really bad when we look at player movements. HL1 engine can offer the prime of gameplay, I doubt Valve will ever make another engine like that. If they just could remain with HL1 engine mechanics and just throw in modern graphics, it would be perfect.
source engine is awesome, almost everything can be tweaked, for example look what they did on csp (source engine)
Yes, but even on CSP the movement isn't as good as in HL1, CS, etc... at least in my opinion. But there is no doubt that CSP is far ahead of GO.
I though cs:go movement was "good enough" but gotta say i agree with it being too easy and it has to have wider skillcap somehow.
The movement however is close to 1.6 , i rly dont have proper english to explain what pacifically is WRONG, something to do with prestrafe?
You can basically bhop straight forward with small turns, but your incabable of doing fast/sharp turns or suddenly change your direction.
In cs 1.6 you can bhop full circle and gain/hold your speed (360 degrees.
In CS:GO you can only airstrafe with slightly below 90 degree turns or you completely stop. 45 are pretty optical.
The movement however is close to 1.6 , i rly dont have proper english to explain what pacifically is WRONG, something to do with prestrafe?
You can basically bhop straight forward with small turns, but your incabable of doing fast/sharp turns or suddenly change your direction.
In cs 1.6 you can bhop full circle and gain/hold your speed (360 degrees.
In CS:GO you can only airstrafe with slightly below 90 degree turns or you completely stop. 45 are pretty optical.
+1! it's pretty insane how much movement is overlooked, especially when it comes to de_train
Post edited 2012-09-23 06:13:51
Post edited 2012-09-23 06:13:51
nice blog again dude can agree more !
CSgo will be dead faster then we think if they dont fix changes...
CSgo will be dead faster then we think if they dont fix changes...
I miss u MJP^^ :(<3
+1, movement should be THE MAIN FOCUS, regarding updates. 99% of the reasons i don't play GO is because of the movement, i feel like a robot playing, just walking and making retarded jumps.
and the game being to easy, not just valve, every single game now-a-days is like this, i remember the game from ps1 and nintendo, we spent like a whole day trying to pass 1 level, that's why me and many others spent so much time on it, because it was fun, it was hard.
and the game being to easy, not just valve, every single game now-a-days is like this, i remember the game from ps1 and nintendo, we spent like a whole day trying to pass 1 level, that's why me and many others spent so much time on it, because it was fun, it was hard.
these are different games man, just stop comparing cs1.6, css and csgo
I was watching that "stan^" guy from Ukraine streaming, and he had some decent movement in CS:GO :P
i just read the replies u got on steamforum....omg,where do those guys come from :(
probably pubbers :(
Post edited 2012-09-24 20:47:28
Post edited 2012-09-24 20:47:28
CS players, who haven't encountered real jumping, probably have very little idea what jumping is in Counter-Strike.
People saying that 1.6 compared to 1.3 has "no movement" or 1.3 compared to 1.6 is like 1.6 to GO are totally wrong.
No point though in discussing differences. I'll just say that there are really a lot jumping techniques/jumps/moves. There is a whole community dedicated to jumping.
People saying that 1.6 compared to 1.3 has "no movement" or 1.3 compared to 1.6 is like 1.6 to GO are totally wrong.
No point though in discussing differences. I'll just say that there are really a lot jumping techniques/jumps/moves. There is a whole community dedicated to jumping.
movement needs to be somewhere in between balanced but not ridiculously unrealistic like it was in 1.3
if they wanted to make CSGO really balanced as far as movement goes is implement double-ducking, but not as much as 1.6, limit it to 2 maximum doubleducks, like a sliding mechanic ....that would introduce a new skillset similar to 1.6.
if they wanted to make CSGO really balanced as far as movement goes is implement double-ducking, but not as much as 1.6, limit it to 2 maximum doubleducks, like a sliding mechanic ....that would introduce a new skillset similar to 1.6.
Yeah everything that criticizes CS:GO somehow on cadred gets deleted or such.
f.ex. I sent a video of what should be fixed in CS:GO to cadreds media section and it was being deleted in next 2 hours. What is wrong with themmmmmmmmmm
f.ex. I sent a video of what should be fixed in CS:GO to cadreds media section and it was being deleted in next 2 hours. What is wrong with themmmmmmmmmm
Yeah, and they don't want to admit it. I confronted Richard Lewis about it and he claimed that I spammed every single CS:GO newspost on cadred, and that I had 8 accounts, both very false.
Well written blog and I agree that movement should have a higher skill cap than it currently does!
Glad a guy from the CSS-community agrees with me! :D Unfortunately that is rare, I got a ban on cadred for posting it there for example, and we really need both communities to push these changes :(
I've posted lists of stuff on cadred and people just reply saying that I'm moaning and that I should learn the game instead of moaning. Just sad when people are trying to put up suggestions on how to improve the game and then get flamed because they think I am "moaning".
Yeah sad, they don't realise that all they do is hurting the game in the end with their attitude.
Agree'd. With the movement as it is now i don't see CS:GO success ever, same goes with recoil and money system.
why richard lewis hate you?
I wrote that I thought that he was a horrible because of his bias towards CSS and him hating on 1.6, and after that he has been stalking me/lying about me whenever he gets the chance.
Skill-based movement would make this game so interesting.
For now it looks for me like bags of potatoes dicking around.
For now it looks for me like bags of potatoes dicking around.
Put "+sv_airaccelerate 100" in launchoptions and enter your listenserver... sooo much better.
It's reached Valve! They mentioned that they're keeping an eye on this issue
yeah it's got nothing to do j3di or anyone who actually looks into making these changes rather than writing shit blogs.
I know what you mean- most of Valve's interactions ring very hollow but the best we can hope to do is pester them.
The whole wave during the beta of people pestering them to make the game more like 1.6 has passed, and that's good; the game should be fundamentally different.
All I care about making sure that Valve understands is that even if the game is to feel different and behave differently, the skill ceiling needs to be very high. There need to be multiple ways for a player to develop and establish a meta-sense if the game is to survive and be a successful FPS.
The whole wave during the beta of people pestering them to make the game more like 1.6 has passed, and that's good; the game should be fundamentally different.
All I care about making sure that Valve understands is that even if the game is to feel different and behave differently, the skill ceiling needs to be very high. There need to be multiple ways for a player to develop and establish a meta-sense if the game is to survive and be a successful FPS.
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