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A few facts about CS, stats and Valve.
2012-11-05 16:23
During ESWC we got the chance to sit down and talk to some of the CS:GO developers from Valve.

They were truly awesome guys. Apart from talking to us they also talked a lot to basically all CS:GO teams attending ESWC. 5 days of nothing else but getting feedback from all pro players.

We decided to give feedback regarding just two subjects, because talking about "everything" would just not be constructive.

I wanted to focus on movement, recoil and as a little bonus the silencer :)

I basically asked them what their plans for movement and recoil was. I expected them to say something like "well we wont change it now, but maybe later" But instead they said "Well it's funny you ask, since we just enter the numbers we get from j3di. He is giving us all the convar values for both movement and recoil. We don't have anything to do with that."

And for you who don't know who j3di is; he is the guy behind zblock and has lately been heavily involved is CS:GO development. He is also the one that released this: www.hltv.org/forum/187310-csgo-with-cs-feel

Valve has even tried to contract j3di to Valve but without success so far.

J3di is still tweaking movement and recoil and when he finds new numbers he will get feedback from pro players and Valve will just put them in. So that was awesome news imo.

Regarding the silencer it was a totally different story. The silencer is on the "todo list" but not a priority. Valve developers also think that CT is slightly overpowered atm and do not want to give them a buff. If they add it to the game they need to make sure balance is not compromised, and they have not found a way to do that yet. This is basically their way of thinking on all aspects of the game. They know that even the slightest change will have an impact on a lot of other aspects as well. This is also the case with molotovs. They want to see how the game is working with the molotovs in it's current state. If it has too much impact, for example CT being more favoured like it is today, they will first try to change the way molotovs work instead of just removing them. Maybe just make them last shorter or maybe remove the slowing effect so that you can rush through them without losing half of your HP.

We kept on talking and we asked about the steam stats and other stuff related to the success or lack of success of CS:GO. I commented on the pretty low numbers we have seen so far for CS:GO and asked them if they had numbers for the first months of Source when it was released. They gave me an example from November 2004. One month after game release Source peaked on 4.000 players in a day. But they also told me that Steam Stats is very misguiding and not telling the full story. The numbers is just revealing the peaks and not the total number of players in a day. If you count the total of unique players the story is totally different. 1.6 for example have its user base concentrated to a few geographical areas where it's very strong thats why we get these high peaks, and Source and CS:GO is more evenly spread globally we don't see these peaks in the same way. But since 2007 Source have more players globally playing every day than both 1.6 and GO with quite a big margin too. GO and 1.6 have about the same numbers today.

This is very interesting numbers and i don't know why they don't share these numbers as well as the peaks. Their comment was that they agree that it is misguiding and should be changed.

So hopefuly j3di will release some numbers for movement and recoil soon for us to try out and give feedback on. Of course not everyone will be happy as it always is, but it will be good enough to get used to.

PLEASE NOTE THAT MY INTENTION IS NOT TO THRASH ANY VERSION OF COUNTER-STRIKE. I JUST SHARED THE INFO I GOT.


I've read j3di's cadredcomments and it scares me that this guy is the man that is responsible of such things. For example he's a supporter of the molotov, and i've also seen him write that the current movement is fine.

great of you bringing up the movement tho :-)

"But since 2007 Source have more players globally playing every day than both 1.6 and GO with quite a big margin too. GO and 1.6 have about the same numbers today."

This is bullshit, CS 1.6 is before CSS and CS:GO at every minute of the day in current players.

Post edited 2012-11-05 16:31:53
2012-11-05 16:29:12
Well, regarding j3di's thoughts regarding movement i have no doubt he thinks it's fine. It is his numbers. But he also wants feedback from pro players which he is getting right now. I spoke to some of the players during ESWC and quite a few of them have tried different numbers on movement.

And regarding steam stats. I don't have the numbers so i can't say more than Valve themselves is saying that they have so much more info than steamstats itself is showing. I have no reason to doubt them. Why would they lie and say that Source is the most poular version of Counter-Strike if it was not?
2012-11-05 16:39:25
No idea why they would lie (except for some theories of mine), but i'm telling you that you won't find CS:S or GO ahead of 1.6 any time of the day, and if you do it's only by a very small margin while 1.6 has a huge advantage at it's peak hours.



Post edited 2012-11-05 16:41:12
2012-11-05 16:40:52
I dont think you understand what they said.
"1.6 for example have its user base concentrated to a few geographical areas"

Meaning very few people outside that area are playing 1.6. Meaning most people playing it are the same people.(50k or whatver)

They are saying therefore that CS:S and CS:GO actually have a much larger base of players, they are just spread more globally. So the 20,000 playing 1 day, may all be different to the 20,000 playing another day etc.

They are talking in unique players. Therefore cs:s and cs:go have more players than 1.6.

Like people always say, don't read into the steam stats as a first glance answer.
2012-11-05 17:51:36
Still doesnt count just like non-steam 1.6 stats dont count.
2012-11-05 17:55:03
Ah, I see.

But that means that 1.6 beats CSS and GO in concurrents and average playtime, which according to 2GD, Hellspawn and dignitasNewmaN is what sponsors cares the most about (source: the gdstudio).

Wouldn't that also mean that CS:S/CS:GO most likely has more casualplayers considering 1.6 has the same people playing everyday while CS:S/CS:GO doesn't have a fanbase near as fanatic?

Also, I really dislike counting nonsteam numbers but with them included I am 100% certain that CS 1.6 is the most popular CS-game on earth and there's probably a shit-ton of nosteamers watching progames/browsing this website, but that doesn't really count and as the guy above me pointed out these "ghostnumbers" doesn't count either as there's no way to prove them.

Also keep in mind that OP has no evidence of these interviews existing, I doubt that they'll address the movement when I think about the conversation I had with phoon:

http://imgur.com/a/Uq3oY

Post edited 2012-11-05 18:00:24
2012-11-05 17:56:42
+1. Your 'Casual' theory actually makes a lot of sense :D
2012-11-05 19:19:23
I don't care about "who is more evenly spread" LOL, a game can have 10 players in every country of the world, having a ridiculously low number of players globaly (~3000, but it would be the MOST EVENLY SPREADED GLOBALY GAME EVER. That means shit.

Here is what matters.
All day long, 1.6 has more concurrent players than CS:GO, ALL DAY LONG, according to steamstats. BOOM, thats evidence that 1.6 has more players than GO, and thats also evidence this blog is full of shit, either the OP is lying, or Valve is lying when they claim GO and 1.6 have the same number of players.

The only way out of this, is if 1.6 players on the avarage would be playing the game for many many more hours per day, so the same 1.6 player would be part of the concurrent stats all day long, as opposed to GO players, who play the game for very short time, so the GO concurrent stats would be made up by many diffrent players as the day go by. Thats of course, bullshit, since there is absolute no reason to believe 1.6 players play more hours straight, than GO players... Common sense would tell you they play about the same ammount of hours ON THE AVERAGE.

And btw, concurrent 1.6 players reach 55K and GO players reach 20K, thats AN ENORMOUS HUGE diffrence.

So here you have it, thats evidence this blog is full of lies, you have no way out of this, unless you want to ignore the rules of statistics and maths.

Bye!
2012-11-05 18:15:18
+1

I love when HLTV'ers rapes cadtards with perfect logic. And btw, lets not forget about the non-steam players, who are a huge number in asia and south america...

You are right, unless that cadtard wants to ignore the rules of math and statistics, there is no way to beat your argument.

Congrats m8!
2012-11-05 18:19:08
I will reply to you so retards who +1'd him can see it.

Part of his undeniable logic was made up by:

"Thats of course, bullshit "

There is no point to this discussion until any sort of useful information is released.

His logic also doesn't escape the fact cs:go could have an overall larger player base you complete fuckwits.

Post edited 2012-11-05 19:07:43
2012-11-05 19:05:29
+1 loved the logic.

Here is our math / statistic problem for dAND3h:

Consider this graph from Valve:

http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&a..

Q: Since steamstats is showing that 1.6 has more concurrent players than GO, all day long, please prove how 1.6 and GO can have the same number of players, as "Valve" stated?

Additional facts: Don't forget 1.6 has on the average 3 - 4x more concurrent players, and when you get tired of it, try to include the non-steam players into the equation



-------------------




cadret people must have really low IQ, since they failed to see this. Like fifer4 said, the only way out of this, to justify "Valve"'s statment that GO and 1.6 has the same number of players, would be if the average 1.6 player would be playing the game for many many many more hours straight, than the average GO player, and there is absolute no reason to assume that, in fact, it would be insane to assume that, and even if you want to assume that, you need to PROVE it. Care to prove?

hahah loved this!

Post edited 2012-11-05 18:30:33
2012-11-05 18:27:39
#59
2012-11-05 19:08:23
you are a fucking cs:s who is just complaining all the time what a looser
2012-11-05 19:14:47
Never played css
2012-11-05 19:15:30
never played CS and still talking shit at CS like you are an oldschool
2012-11-06 06:54:47
I played cs since it first came out.
2012-11-06 18:39:56
and you're the 410000th user on the biggest cs site... seems legit
2012-12-23 12:31:57
retard
2012-12-23 13:51:05
#68
2012-11-05 19:21:57
so lets say it like this if csgo players play on average 1h/day and 1.6 players play on average 2h/day so if csgo has 25k players all day it make's 600k UNIQUE players/day and if cs1.6 have somthing like 50k all day it makes the same amount of UNIQUE players. (i just thrown those hour's from my head, but my point is that there can be same amount of UNIQUE players even if csgo has less players online.)

Post edited 2012-11-05 21:18:40
2012-11-05 21:15:24
1. Do you really believe people who play 1.6 are so much "different" from people who play CSS/CSGO? I bet the average daily playtime of the average player is almost the same in all three CS titles.

2. The average CS 1.6 player would have to play more than 3x times longer than the average CS:GO player (15k - 50k).

3. "Valve" was arguing with the global spread:
" 1.6 for example have its user base concentrated to a few geographical areas where it's very strong thats why we get these high peaks, and Source and CS:GO is more evenly spread globally we don't see these peaks in the same way."
This makes no sense since the peak of 1.6 is higher at any time a day.
2012-11-05 21:42:09
It doesn't matter what i think. I just make clear it is possible to have same amount of unique player's with less player online same time. Im not here to argue about which game has more unique players. My point was that it is possible that csgo has same amount of unique players than 1.6. It's just foolish to argue these kind of things when no one has any clear proof of these things.
2012-11-05 21:53:54
I admit, your theory is "possible" even though it's completely unrealistic.

But the point is: Valve's theory (global spread..) makes no sense.
2012-11-05 21:58:04
its very realistic actually. We're not talking about 100k players who fill these peaks but hundreds of thousands per weeks, probably millions over a month. 1.6 is better game so it has players playing more frequently it so monthly playerbase can be smaller but still achieve higher peaks daily.

global spread have nothing to do with peaks like you said
2012-11-05 22:53:20
the "number of current player" is higher at any time. a higher number of unique player would mean the average 1.6 players plays a lot longer than the average CSS/CSGO player. IMO this is very unrealistic since the average 1.6 player and the average CSS player aren't that different in their habits (don't even think about competitive players, the average player is still a casual player).
2012-11-05 23:02:42
are you kidding? Look at any indians steam profile for example. Some have 5000 hours 1.6 and they have steam since 2008.
2012-11-06 20:04:04
Which steam profile did you see? Link?
2012-11-07 22:19:04
Not going to go searching for the post. Maybe it is a slight exaggeration but most are definitely on their way to 4000 hours!
2012-11-08 01:58:57
Still exaggeration. Avg for guys who play a lot of CS on Steam since 2008 is like 2000 or less hrs.
2012-11-08 06:42:35
(is it the same time in Germany as opposed to Australia.... that is what Valve is talking about, do people play at 2pm in Japan, when it's night-time in America etc, that is Global spread).
2012-11-06 00:43:49
so?
I mean I understand what "Valve" said, but it doesn't make sense since the current player number is lower at any day time.
2012-11-06 00:47:27
Thanks for having brains and understanding
2012-11-06 19:58:20
Well, as i stated before, and was my conception of the problem is that "Steam Stats is not showing the whole picture"

Meaning some info is left out or missing. They were not only talking about concurrent/unique players. They were saying steam stats have missing or incorrect information. They told me not to trust the numbers on it; plain and simple. Steamgraph is using Steam Stats numbers so you can use that graph all you want to try to prove a point. If Steam Stats is not correct, steamgraph will never be correct either.

And i seriously don't understand what's wrong with people here? I have clearly stated all along that i don't want to bash either game. I'm just sharing the info i got. Lies or not, thats the info i got.

I am convinced we will see some news regarding the stats and the general development of GO soon. Rich from Fragbite, Casper from Esplanet picked up on it, and i'm pretty sure MIRAA did aswell.







2012-11-05 21:56:41
Ok, i can't say that you are wrong. Like i said i don't have they real numbers. I just have the same numbers you have. What i'm saying is that Valve told me that steamstats as a feature gives a false image of reality. They also stated that in their stats which contains more info (whatever that means)is showing another picture. Maybe the stats is not showing players from all regions? Maybe Asia or Australia is not included? I don't know.

If you would have told me, i would not have believed you. But now they told me this. And i'm sharing. Simple as that.
2012-11-05 18:29:09
you lost all your credibility with this thread, because its now proved (see #46), that either Valve lied to you, or YOU lied to us. Seriously, its hard to believe that Valve would blatantly lie like that, so...

Better luck next time bro.

Post edited 2012-11-05 18:32:56
2012-11-05 18:32:23
All things he said are true. I had same talk with Ido from Valve later that day.

All we need is to find correct values for movement/recoil, try it and then send it to Valve so they can add it to the game. That's exactly what Valve said to me.

They also asked me to gather proteams feedback and send to them.

It is time to unite and tell Valve what we want for CSGO !

If you have stuff to address please mail me there : [email protected]
2012-11-06 09:57:44
when you say steamstats gives false image, the newbies from LoL will crush us(dota2 players)
2012-11-11 03:44:32
Yes, probably. Maybe CS in any form is not even on the top 10 list at all.
2012-11-11 15:02:34
It is not about the spread. It is about the amount of UNIQUE PLAYERS you braindead ape. Do you understand what that means?

2012-11-05 19:10:19
I think you are dumber than what I thought. He is talking EXACTLY about UNIQUE PLAYERS, you are just too dumb to see it. Read #46 again because you are looking really stupid here. Pretty sure everybody reading your comment here, is realising how dumb you are.

We ARE talking about unique players, thats all we are talking about, haha. I expected more from cadtards, you are really really dumb.

What fifer4 said, and what I said in #46, is proving that GO can't have more unique players, thats exactly the point. Read #46 again, looks like your brain needs more time to understand it hahaha

Post edited 2012-11-05 19:23:25
2012-11-05 19:21:27
90% of the 50k playing 1.6 are the same people over and over(We know this from 3rd world steam pages where people have 3,000 hours in 3 years). Therefore it has max 70k with steam users.

2012-11-05 20:11:10
I am a csgo supporter, but I have to say this. You are looking really really stupid here. Unfortunatly, they are obviously right when they say 1.6 has more players than GO. There is just no question about it, when most of the day 1.6 keeps its concurrent number at 50,000 while CS:GO keeps its number at 20,000.

Btw, your post #86 doesn't even make sense, I also believe they are right when they say you really didn't understand post #46. Just my 2cc, the more you write here, the more stupid you look.
2012-11-05 20:21:42
I don't care about concurrent numbers. Lol. There is nothing to say which game has the most unique users which is what all of you fail to understand.
2012-11-05 20:35:50
you always talk about unique players, where is the prove
2012-11-06 05:39:58
I am just using the information from the OP I have no idea if it is accurate, I was just trying to explain it
2012-11-06 18:39:27
okay
2012-11-06 19:35:30
actually csgo used to have more players in morning CET time than 1.6 2 or 3 weeks ago, dont know if this keeps the same havent check steam stats in the morning for some time.
2012-11-05 19:35:53
its not happening, and when it did, it was something like

1.6 - 11000
GO - 11300

thats not really relevant or doesn't really qualify as GO 'having more players" in this kinda statistics... Too little diffrente, for only 1 or 2 hours a day. Makes zero difference, you might call that "same number of players" really.

Now, during 80% of the day, 1.6 has 50K concurrent players vs 20K GO players, NOW THAT MEANS having more concurrent players in this kinda statistics.

Post edited 2012-11-05 19:40:08
2012-11-05 19:38:45
Yes it is a large difference, but your analogy to 10 people in every country doesn't relate to what Valve/OP was saying.

They are saying the games have the same number of players on average per day. This means they can track the number of log-ins to their games per day.

Essentially, CSGO's "low" peak numbers are the result of the time zone differences. CS1.6 and CSGO have around the same UNIQUE (key word) visitors per day. (According to OP)
2012-11-05 22:22:45
Honest;y that dandeh guy is dumb as bricks.
2012-11-07 22:50:33
Why are you even argueing about the numbers, maybe Valve is wrong. Does it change anything? Stop being so negative concerning everything other than CS 1.6. It will always will be THE legendary game but it's time to move on. It does not matter what numbers, how many viewers etc, Valve obviously will not go back to full supporting CS 1.6/Source but they want to improve CS:GO. Is it not better for the whole community to focus on improving CS:GO instead of bickering about some statistics.
2012-11-05 20:38:08
The numbers proves that CS:GO is a flop, and if the numbers continue to look like this CS:GO will die (which I hope it does).
2012-11-05 21:28:53
Ok imagine CS:GO does die what then? Do you honestly think sponsors will go back to 1.6 then? Or are you more realistic and see that it would mean the end of the BIG competitive CS tournaments.
2012-11-05 22:04:34
I'm realistic, I know that unless CSPromod gives us a miracle CS will die.

I welcome the death of CS tho if there isn't any worthy successor, I rather see the esportsmoney go to SC2/DotA 2 instead
2012-11-05 22:06:37
Ok, Don't you have any emotional ties to FPS in general and the CS-format in particular? Why are you spending so much time discussing, writing, researching and writing in several forums for?

I myself love FPS and CS. It started with CS Betas which blew my mind. I played every possible minute, thought about it when i was not playing it and dreamed about it when i was asleep. But it never made me narrow minded to the extent that i wish life out of a whole genre if it's not going my way.

If killing CS is your main objective i suggest you head off to Team Liquid.

I know you will answer that you still have high hopes for Pro Mod. It's admirable and almost cute in a way. Almost like the dog Hachiko. I don't know what to think just yet, but i want it to succeed but right now chances look bleak.

Post edited 2012-11-05 22:45:04
2012-11-05 22:44:04
I've tried/i'm trying to provide feedback to make CS:GO better, however, the feedback gets shut down by half of the community because they don't know better, and in those cases when that didn't happen Valve ignores it instead. Anyways, i'm here because this is still a 1.6 community and I still play a lot of 1.6 for funzies. Writing in forums is also a great way to kill time between games.

Also, CSPromod can definitely succeed if they release the god damn game. Everything that matters in todays esports is spectators, players and globality and 1.6 has a huge ass community. It can happen yo, i'm here until I see how things turn out atleast :))
2012-11-05 22:57:13
You have some valid points when it comes to changes needed in CS:GO. It's too bad the Pro Forums failed. Another thing Valve admits to, but they never realized it would be so much prestige in it. Making people focusing more on how they look in the spotlight rather than focusing on the feedback itself.

Many of your wishes have already been heard. Not directly from you, but you and your peers have created a pattern seen by both developers and people in direct connection with developers. They basically do what everyone else is doing. Filtering out the noise and noticing trends and patterns in the general opinion about the game. If many enough complains about the same stuff it will get noticed. But if a random guy writes "GAME IS SHIT WHORE WITH UGLY MAMA" not much will happen based on that critique.

They also listen to feedback that has a explanation to it. For example, "The p250 is OP, needs to be nerfed" would have to be "The p250 is OP, needs to be nerfed BECAUSE it gives CT too much advantage in ECO-rounds and pistol-rounds. CT win to many pistol-rounds and while on ECO. Nerf damage done WITH armor, without armor is fine"

Then they will take it in to consideration and extrapolate what impact it will have on other aspects of the game and what the best solution is to make it more balanced. Raise the price on that particular gun. Nerf damage made overall, or just with armor. Is there room for nerfing the CT-side or will the sides get unbalanced. How do we balance pistol-rounds without making it impossible to win eco's? Should eco's be possible to win? And if winning ecos is bad, who is it bad for? Spectators might love seeing won ecos, but it might be bad for teams with better economy-control?

Thats what i have learned so far, and when i started using this method myself, a lot of the complaints i had just crumbled because i couldn't put them into perspective. I just knew i hated some stuff.
Like molotovs. I hated them like a turd in a swimming-pool, but i have to admit they bring an extra dimension to the game that we have never seen before in CS. Maybe CS could last longer if it had regular changes like this so that it never stagnates like it has in past couple of years. Same strats, same frags by same players. It would be interesting to both players and spectators if somethings changed once in a while. Even if it's just a new pistol or new map. But for that to work we need to be more open minded. Changes like these have been implemented before. But it has been done only by very brave men. Remember the addition of de_mirage 2010? My god the crying in the beginning. But now it's considered a standard map almost.

Sorry for another wall of text. Find it hard to stop ;)
2012-11-05 23:47:54
Ofcourse you have to explain why and how it should be changed, that's something i've always tried to do, and I believe that i've done that succesfully a long with others, and yet we still see us being ignored by Valve.

You bring up molotovs as an example of a thing you hated before, but you can see the purpose of it because it changes things up and gives another dimension blabla.

I agree with you that change is needed once in a while, but molotovs (and new weapons and stuff) isn't the way to go, especially not molotovs as it is unfair. It doesn't take much skill to throw a molotov, and if you're a player getting the molotov thrown at you you're fucked because even if you're the most skilled player in the world you cannot avoid the molotov because the game doesn't allow you too. Also it sucks to watch.

New maps is the way to go when we have to refresh things, we need to keep the mechanics the same. I have always believed that long-term gameplay consistency is a necessity if eSports is to continue to grow in the big picture of things. We simply cannot have the core gameplay of our titles change every few years and expect to maintain a consistent player base, spectator following, and group of recognizable professionals. Imagine trying to play and follow the game of basketball if the court and rim sizes changed drastically every few years - it just wouldn't work.

That's why the whole "reinvent the wheel" thing is retarded, no one is thinking of the long term future. The graphics will be outdated in a few years, and Valve will create another Counter-Strike that is a bit worse than it's predecessors and so it continues. And then people claim that us 1.6/CSP fans are the one's that aren't thinking of what's best for the scene?

So i'm tired of hearing all this "open minded" stuff, I'm fine with change as long as it's as good or better, but even then it's terrible because we have to find something that works and keep it that way forever if we want CS to grow to become as big as possible.

Post edited 2012-11-06 00:34:02
2012-11-06 00:32:48
Dude, really - I don't know why peoPle hate you so much in here. You actually have good points, and I agree with you in many of them.
2012-11-06 06:33:17
Some people can't take that a 15 year old is smarter then them, I guess that's the reason atleast since I always get comments like "15 y/o -.-' herpderpderp"
2012-11-06 15:24:59
You could be less whiny :P

Belieber.
2012-11-06 16:26:14
The game is great and I was a hardcore 1.6 player and now I play csgo everyday because I enjoy it . If you don't like the game from your point of view that doesn't mean others don't enjoy it and I couldn't care less about the steam statistics since I only care about the competitive scene .
2012-12-24 10:43:14
1+ this guy
2012-11-06 10:33:50
+ if you could count those who play non steamed.
cs 1.6 would be like 99999999+
2012-11-07 18:07:56
Cool , I would take anything that zaihtam writes seriously since he tries to flame csgo at every little opportunity he gets.

Its just a matter of time before the stats start rising anyway, I'm not worried about that.
2012-11-05 16:35:26
It's true tho, facts are facts. Stay up tonight and watch for yourself! :-)

Amusing that you say that people shouldn't take me seriously when I speak about CS:GO when you have made yourself known as the #1 CS:GO-fan here on the forums. I'm actually using facts, you just write stuff on emotion.
2012-11-05 16:53:04
You use facts? I stayed up at night plenty of times I know at us times csgo and 1.6 usually have around the same players of course it does not mean csgo has more players than 1.6 or as many, but valve did not try say it did.

Post edited 2012-11-05 16:58:36
2012-11-05 16:57:57
""But since 2007 Source have more players globally playing every day than both 1.6 and GO with quite a big margin too. GO and 1.6 have about the same numbers today.""

Valve didn't try to say that CS:GO has more/the same amount of players as 1.6 and that CSS has more then both? Is my english failing me or isn't that exactly what they said according to OP?
2012-11-05 17:04:31
#32 please.
2012-11-05 17:52:16
Let's see how it goes.
2012-11-05 16:38:00
by: Mirze
#6
Good guy Valve meme:

> Ppl say 1.6 has the largest playerbase

> Doesn't tell them sauce is actually the largest

Or

> Ppl laugh at CSGO numbers

> Doesn't tell them it's about the same with 1.6

You so humble Valve :]
2012-11-05 16:41:04
sounds to me like they don't know shit about what they are doing.
2012-11-05 16:49:00
+1
2012-11-05 17:05:31
"GO and 1.6 have about the same numbers today."

Yes, and by 'today', you mean 'today, when people could download GO for free' right? Look:

http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&j..

As you can see, the game had a HUGE increase because of this, let's see on the next weeks how much of these people will buy the game. Also, look how good was the 1.6 peak last weekend, it was the largest amout of players on the last months: 58300.

If you comapre last days 1.6 numbers to the past months, you can see that it has incresed, while CSS has decreased, and GO numbers had a HUGE decrese since it's releasement. They need to improve the game to change the way things are going. It's good to see that they will change the recoil/movement, that's a very, very important aspect for the success or failure of GO, because right now the gameplay is crap. At least they will try o change it.

Post edited 2012-11-05 16:53:16
2012-11-05 16:50:50
My god what a bunch of bullshit...

So valve started to lie to the community?
CSS had 4k peaks by its release?

CSS was insanely hyped when it was released, almost everybody bought it, it had more than 100k players from the start, and from a long time (2004 to 2008) it had more players than 1.6 in the steamstats. Iremember it very well from gotfrag, when saucers where pointing out the steamstats, and 1.6ers were pointing out non-steam stats. If gotfrag forums archive wasnt dead, I would post evidences for you, but Im sure everybody that followed cs from the beggining knows this.

Thats how desperate Valve is. They need to lie to the community, to make GO look better.
Pathetic.

And btw, that guy J3DI is not the best guy to try to fix GO. He is a random sAucer, not a pro player, lots of his comments shows he is clueless about many aspects of counter strike.
2012-11-05 17:04:21
well its why he told that the settings will be tested by pro players.

Read first, comment then.

Post edited 2012-11-05 17:22:03
2012-11-05 17:21:33
+1
2012-11-06 05:42:53
Brace yourselfs, 1.6 heretics incoming.

OT, sounds good to me and IMO the silencer isn't that big of a deal.
2012-11-05 17:04:49
+1
2012-11-05 17:11:32
Userid 411xxx

So, you registred last week to post bullshits like this?
I doubt Valve would be insane enough to blatantly lie like that. Everybody that followed cs in 2004 would easily know they are lying. 4k peak for CSS? Lol...

I doubt Valve would be that stupid. Looks more likely to me, that YOU are the one lying.

Desperate enough GO fanboi?

Haha
2012-11-05 17:13:13
But it's true. Sauce was despised(or was it me who despised it?) so much on it's first release month it peaked only at 5k concurrent players.

Post edited 2012-11-05 17:20:17
2012-11-05 17:17:44
No its not true.
Its very easy to claim bullshit whitout evidence right?

Look at this one:

1.6 had 300k players in 2003 steamstats.

Its easy to make things up right?
This blog is full of lies, just to try to make Csgo look better.

Look at that shit: 1.6 and go have the same number of players

LMAO

GO fanbois are very desperate indeed, funny shit.
2012-11-05 17:22:59
sauce was really huge in 2005 dummy. It had 40k specs for wcg.

Do you have any evidence it was instantly huge from the get-go?
2012-11-05 17:28:17
Yes, i think that the 4k number was an example on how low it was in the beginning. Remember that this was during it's first weeks. And it took three years before it passed 1.6
2012-11-05 17:28:50
by: prl - <3 Neo
#21
^ this
2012-11-05 17:26:01
Why would i lie? How would i benefit from that?

Do you think everything i wrote is a lie?
2012-11-05 17:40:49
Csgo fanbois are desperate, thats a reason to lie. Bye. Next time you post evidences to support your claims, or it means nothing.
2012-11-05 17:45:06
Desperate 1.6 fanbois like you are just as bad :]
2012-11-05 17:47:17
I'm userid 724, and I've heard the same as OP

Shit's legit, dude, just look at my userid!

.. honestly though, some of you are so in denial it's painful to observe.
2012-11-05 18:04:54
Your source?
2012-11-05 18:09:05
Players who were there, feel that's a secure source

Edit: I would at least take it any day over the conspiracy crew of HLTV.org

Post edited 2012-11-05 19:58:15
2012-11-05 19:57:41
OH REALLY?

Then answer #46, which is proving either Valve or the OP are lying. Can't do it? You lose, bye.
2012-11-05 18:40:56
OH RLY? Show something more than "I've heard the same as OP"
2012-11-05 19:58:51
All things he said are true. I had same talk with Ido from Valve later that day.

All we need is to find correct values for movement/recoil, try it and then send it to Valve so they can add it to the game. That's exactly what Valve said to me.

They also asked me to gather proteams feedback and send to them.

It is time to unite and tell Valve what we want for CSGO !

If you have stuff to address please mail me there : [email protected]
2012-11-06 10:02:33
good to know about j3di & co.

/really care about stats counter
2012-11-05 17:18:18
+1
2012-11-05 17:28:53
Who are you?
2012-11-05 17:34:03
Facts?

Where are the facts? All I see is some made up shit full of lies, written by a csgo fanboy.
Next time post evidences, or it wont mean shit, just like this blog.
2012-11-05 17:43:24
Fact no1:
Valve developers were at ESWC to get pro-player feedback. They will be back for Dreamhack as well

Fact no2:
Valve thinks CT is op atm and will not release silencer just yet because they think it will give ct a buff.

Fact no3:
J3di is in charge of the convars controlling movement and recoil.


Fact no4:
Valve wants to hire j3di


Fact no5:
Pro players are trying different numbers on movement as we speak.


Fact no6:
We will see changes to the molotov after the ESWC evaluation instead of removal.

Fact no7:
Valve told me that Steam Stats is not showing the whole picture.

Fact no8:
Valve told me and approx 60 other people at the same party including most pro teams at ESWC, that Source had bigger numbers in unique players per day than 1.6 since 2007.

Of course i have no proof that anything i heard is true. I did not ask for that as you can imagine. I never stated that this is the plain truth, i only stated i'm sharing the info i got.
2012-11-05 18:02:16
Not a single fuck given by all that crap, when you can't answer #46, which is proving either you or Valve lied. Cya!
2012-11-05 18:39:09
#162
2012-11-07 22:15:16
I dont wanna be offensive or anything, but can you proove you actually talked to developers , many here including myself are just wondering if your just a average user who made that all up in order to shut haters mouth. thx =)

Post edited 2012-11-05 22:16:40
2012-11-05 22:16:25
You are not offensive in any way :D

I am for sure an average user in most aspects. But i did indeed talk to the developers. But i was not the only one. They had private discussions with teams on the 1st and 2nd day of November. In the evening on November 2nd they had a Coctail Party at restaurant L'lle. Teams were invited to talk to the devs since they have little time to do that during the day.

NiP, Area51, Verygames, some female teams and Mousesports was there. Aswell as some other people. Valve had 6 guys in paris. Brian, Ido and Marc was the devs i spoke to.

2012-11-05 22:58:50
Well that's the problem. Go will never move up without 1.6 players, and they will not join without 1.6 teams. So if only ex-css teams are helping with the developement, the game will never succeed.

And they talked to NIP???
Why would NIP want to change anything??? :)
2012-12-23 15:16:33
i just wanna ask about fact8 if thats true how is there always more spectators for 1.6 then?
2012-11-05 22:44:54
LoL that haters.....
2012-11-05 17:47:06
Hey, you do realize you are not counting no-steam players right? source and GO are nowhere near cs 1.6 steam + no-steam.
2012-11-05 17:48:44
This blog is a lie. Please delete it. No evidence of any of the claims. No pictures, no video interviews nothing. And who the hell are you and why would Valve developer talk to a random kid like you?
2012-11-05 17:52:13
Nice blog, didn't know that info.
About the "ct-t balance", they have to implement silencer, and if they want to keep the balance, they just have to change the maps. Nothing affects more to the balance than the maps, so If they found that molotov+silencer gives Cts an advantage, then make the maps more t-sided, and that's it :)
2012-11-05 18:10:11
I agree with you on the maps. Standard Nuke and Inferno is way to CT-biased. On Nuke you are happy to get three rounds as T if you are facing good opposition and lose pistol. If maps were more balanced CT could have a buff since being T is cheaper in general. Especially since the defkit now is $400.
2012-11-05 18:19:46
:D I had a feeling this flaming, thrashing, accusing would happen. Must admit i'm sad though since most of this are good news to anyone that wants a good new competitive FPS-title. I have hard rumors before saying that valve will not address movement at all. Same for recoil. This is good news and the reaction is to call the poster a liar :)

2012-11-05 18:12:09
Even though Nomad slayed many pointless bashers here, this site still full of 1.6 diehards who just want csgo to fail.

Thanks for you effort though, it gives hope for us, few open minded ppl here :]

Post edited 2012-11-05 18:27:04
2012-11-05 18:26:40
Nobody wants CS:GO to fail here. BUT nobody wants a shit game to succeed too.
2012-11-05 18:29:02
huh?
>doesn't want it to fail
>doesn't want it to succeed....
You seem confused :[

And nobody means not a single person in existence right? That makes your statement false since I want csgo to succeed.

...

Why do I feel like it's waste of time to argue with Indian person who are known as the most 1.6 diehards around here?..

Quick, I need few brits on my side! :]
2012-11-05 18:35:48
You might want to understand what i meant to say. We love CS. And CS:GO is not that good yet. If you or me or anyone else do not criticize the game, the game will never be improved.

So what i meant was, we want the game to be good first. Success will then come automatically.
2012-11-05 18:39:42
If you or me or anyone else do not criticize the game, the game will never be improved.

Flawless logic. Something half these source idiots don't understand +1
2012-11-05 19:18:09
+1 exactly, haters are actually doing the best job to point out problems, in a very strong and offensive way.
2012-11-05 22:18:43
hahaha. I'm surprise that guy wrote that, because many of them don't say why something is bad and how change it, they just say something like: "RECOIL SUCKS" "YOU CAN RUN AND SPRAY SHIT GAME" "1.6 4EVER" "CSGO DIE SOON" "STEAMSTATS"
2012-11-07 19:08:58
Yeah thats the difference between haters and trolls.

Haters do yell those same insults, but they usually point out the problems.

Trolls just say "CS:GO sucks" without being any specific to provocate cs:go supporters into a flame war.

Same story for past months since the release.
2012-11-07 22:03:41
:OP OP
2012-11-06 00:11:49
And nobody means not a single person in existence right? That makes your statement false since I want csgo to succeed.




BTW you come from cadred right?
2012-11-06 05:47:32
"no one wants csgo to fail here"

Nice try :))) but that's a blatant lie from you.
2012-11-05 19:38:51
You saucers will never understand. :)
2012-11-05 19:40:28
No,belive me I understand perfectly, you can say anything to me but me and you both know :)

Post edited 2012-11-05 19:50:38
2012-11-05 19:50:13
I bought CS:GO. And i have around 60hrs on the game. I want the game to be improved by Valve, but sadly they have disappointed us till now and until the game is good enough, it will be kept on being called shit by most of the 1.6ers and some of the intelligent saucers.

Post edited 2012-11-05 20:05:42
2012-11-05 20:04:47
#46 proved this blog is full of lies

Either Valve lying or the OP is lying.

There is no credibility left in the blog, unless someone can answer #46.

Better luck next time.
2012-11-05 18:37:03
No, you didn't? Everything theblanD said is plausible.
2012-11-05 18:48:28
"Everything theblanD said is plausible"

theblanD: GO and 1.6 have the same number of players

#46 is showing that statment is false, now tell again, how is everything he said plausible when he is obviusly wrong there?

LMAO, you cadtards are really dumb :)
Answer #46, face it, don't dodge it, then we will talk. bye!
2012-11-05 18:52:51
I think you missed the word "unique"
2012-11-05 19:18:52
I AM talking about unique players, you are just that dumb and can't see it. Read #46 again, and again and again, till you understand it. bye.
2012-11-05 19:34:28
You're hopeless
2012-11-05 19:38:59
Yes, everything what some randy said on internet without any proofs is true and everything what 1.6ers said with proofs is bullshit.

Saucers logic.
2012-11-05 18:55:43
If a Valve employee says steam stats are inaccurate, so why would I believe to something some random said.
2012-11-05 19:24:17
There is no proof that any Valve employee said that in the 1st place. No video interview. No esports websites covered this crucial information. HLTV.org was present onsite but no one has confirmed that anything like this even happened. This blog is a lie and you are dumb to believe in the OP.

Stop accepting everything like a sheep and grow a couple of brain cells of your own.

Post edited 2012-11-05 19:33:28
2012-11-05 19:32:52
He's french :D, and he could have been there. But, hopefully we'll see some real news material soon.
2012-11-05 19:38:15
Also I would rather thrust him, as he isn't an obvious troll than thrust you and the crew of haters from third world countries who want to see GO fail :D
2012-11-05 21:24:04
by: ptR2
#58
I love reading these retarded hltv.org comments, it makes me feel so smart.
2012-11-05 18:59:16
India is a third world country.

p.s sAuce is a very poorly made game and 1.6 is deaded their community consists of:

20% Ukraine
40% BR
40% India


Post edited 2012-11-05 19:23:36
2012-11-05 19:14:47
"sAuce is a very poorly made game"

Dont wanna call CSS a good game but, this statement is so pointless and ignorant
2012-11-05 20:18:33
the excuse for the silencer is retarded
2012-11-05 19:38:09
+1
2012-11-06 05:51:17
Nice read, thanks for sharing the info.
Yea hope they will balance the sides a bit, CTs are kinda overpowered, especially with the molotovs.
2012-11-05 19:52:17
Remove molotovs and add silencer?

TADA!!

Better balance =D
2012-11-05 20:06:30
"Valve developers also think that CT is slightly overpowered atm and do not want to give them a buff. If they add it to the game they need to make sure balance is not compromised, and they have not found a way to do that yet. This is basically their way of thinking on all aspects of the game. They know that even the slightest change will have an impact on a lot of other aspects as well."


LOOOOOL

Regarding the way they created CS:GO this statement is so ridiculous. Silencer could unbalance the game?! But 10 new weapons, a very "extreme" money-system and massive map-layout-changes don't? What a pathetic excuse.

PS: I hope they understand that adding a silencer doesn't just mean a new visual tool. The silencer affects recoil and damage-range-function.


"But they also told me that Steam Stats is very misguiding and not telling the full story. The numbers is just revealing the peaks and not the total number of players in a day. If you count the total of unique players the story is totally different. 1.6 for example have its user base concentrated to a few geographical areas where it's very strong thats why we get these high peaks, and Source and CS:GO is more evenly spread globally we don't see these peaks in the same way. But since 2007 Source have more players globally playing every day than both 1.6 and GO with quite a big margin too. GO and 1.6 have about the same numbers today."



Seriously, what the fuck...

If game A got a higher peak AT ANY TIME A DAY than game B the total number of players in game A can't be lower than the total number of players in game B.
2012-11-05 20:25:12
I thought you were a smarter troll... :)
2012-11-05 21:23:00
Interesting comment.
2012-11-05 21:24:23
#92
2012-11-05 21:24:45
Very good comment. Can't believe people can't understand this "level" of math.
2012-11-05 21:28:53
Tells you a lot about this kiddies on this website like zaihtaM, Piyush and Jack.
2012-11-05 21:44:02
I bet my "level" of mathematics is A LOT higher than yours or Jay Wilson's.
2012-11-05 21:46:17
How can you prove that and claim it so easily? Lmao
2012-11-05 21:52:52
I got a Bsc in Mathematics and I'm doing the Msc right now.
2012-11-05 21:55:49
I believe you. Nice troll.
2012-11-05 21:58:19
own3d loool :D
2012-11-05 22:01:29
People need to realise that Valve employees are americans - they're very good at talking.

I was so fucking hyped for CS:GO when I heard Chet Faliszet talking about it, and look how the game turned out.

"This is basically their way of thinking on all aspects of the game. They know that even the slightest change will have an impact on a lot of other aspects as well."

That's a blatant fucking lie from Valve's side, and some people here are buying it. I mean cmon, MOLOTOV???? MAP CHANGES? MONEYSYSTEM? How careful where Valve here??

Holy fucking shit.
2012-11-05 21:34:33
Jimmies rustled...:D
2012-11-05 21:42:35
You do realize they wanted to create something new right? You're taking this way out of proportion. It's not like they added tanks or rocket launchers.
And let me inform you that this is nothing that only Valve does. Do you really think that game developers just throw stuff in randomly without any thought? These are the same guys that develops dota2 and you think they don't have thought this through? You seem like a nice bright kid but sometimes your young age is a little to obvious. You have lived for a shorter period than some of these guys have developed games and you start accusing them of lying when they say they want to think stuff through before they make changes? Some of these changes was done just to create change, and they adjusted stuff around it to get balance back. Tweaking and more tweaking. If the community really wants a silencer, do you think that they would just toss it in there and see what happens? No they want to think it through before they do. Then they implement it.

If they haven't released a promised feature it means they are still planning for it.
Like the spectator client. We are getting the same system as dota2 has. Auto director based on prioritized events in the network stream that controls where the camera should go. They thought at first they had nailed it, but they realized that going to a first person view in shooters perspective totally ruined the experience since we as spectators would know what would happen. The person we were spectating would kill someone. They had to start over and make it even smarter. Thats an example on not "just doing it".

2012-11-06 01:58:30
Actually, rocket launchers would be a way better addition then the molotovs.

Also, I think I answered most of this in #145.
2012-11-06 15:24:19
say game A has 10 players who play 24 hours a day. game B has 11 players, but only one is online at a time.

game B has more players.


QED
2012-11-05 22:00:56
#101
2012-11-05 22:01:51
"If game A got a higher peak AT ANY TIME A DAY than game B the total number of players in game A can't be lower than the total number of players in game B."

This statement is not true. For example you have 50000 1.6 players, they all log on same time and the peak will register 50000.

Now take for example Source and peak is like 20k (made up numbers here). But during a span of 24 hours 80000 unique players log in to play, but never more than 20000 online simultaneously.

This means that the TOTAL number of players in Source is 30000 more than 1.6, even though peak hours would not indicate any of that.
2012-11-05 22:31:06
First of all: I've done some research but I couldn't find any information about how exactly the steam numbers get calculated.

You're speaking about the "peak of the day (24h)", but there's also the number of current players. By "higher peak at any time" I meant the current player at any time. I called it a peak because it's not a live number; it could be the average number in a certain time interval, the number at an exact moment (like every 5 minute) or what I assume: the peak in a certain small time interval. THIS number is at any time higher in 1.6 than CSS and CS:GO. Regarding this fact it makes absolutely no sense to argue with the global spread of the player-base.

Post edited 2012-11-05 22:50:32
2012-11-05 22:50:16
Are people blind or just damn right retarded? Valve clearly state css has a broader unique range of players than 1.6 ,They are not talking about csgo having more.

Post edited 2012-11-05 21:31:59
2012-11-05 21:31:44
A broader unique range of players but a lower peak at any time a day. Seems legit.
2012-11-05 21:44:43
i'm rather sure that changing recoil and movement cvars won't fix anything. i messed around with them a lot in the beta and CSGO recoil/movement will always feel like CSGO.

actually i disliked jedi's settings a lot. all they do is make recoil a little easier, but it was never too hard to begin with.

movement too won't be fixed by changing values. the whole code needs to be changed. we already changed movement values several times during beta. it's a much deeper issue.





such a pity that valve is basically trusting j3di on this one. they're putting their trust in the wrong hands :/
2012-11-05 21:58:17
"such a pity that valve is basically trusting j3di on this one. they're putting their trust in the wrong hands :/"

Ok I don't know this J3di dude but I tried the settings he posted and I did actually like them. So I guess that is something subjective, as is your opinion that it is in the wrong hands. Or do you personally know someone more fit with the necessary knowledge for the job at hands?

I believe there is no question about it that things do need changing, but I also do not believe it has to be an exact replica of either 1.6 or CSS. It can be unique in its own way but what it should have is a CS feeling to it.
2012-11-05 22:36:26
All 1.6 players saying, ohh look at steam stats, no one is playing CS:GO blablabla. You guys just got pwnd!
2012-11-05 22:01:28
movement + recoil from 1.6 = this game will be really good
2012-11-05 22:02:44
+1
2012-11-05 22:20:22
Oh and btw, j3di can't fix the movement with cvars only - sv_airaccelerate isn't in the game and that's what's needed the most, kneebending is in and you gain no prestrafespeed when you bhop.
2012-11-05 22:08:35
sv_airaccelerate is in the game tho :S
2012-11-05 22:20:58
Yeah, stupid of me to forget it since im actually using it myself, it is in the game.. but not in the game at the same time, it only works on your own listenserver if you put it in launchoptions.
2012-11-05 22:38:30
"J3di is still tweaking movement and recoil and when he finds new numbers he will get feedback from pro players and Valve will just put them in."
2012-11-08 02:05:27
HLTV SO GOOD AT OPINIONS
2012-11-05 22:32:18
They were truly awesome guys. Apart from
talking to us they also talked a lot to
basically all CS:GO teams attending ESWC. 5
days of nothing else but getting feedback
from all pro players.

So first the game was intended for casuals, console playing etc. and now, after the game is 80% done, they talk to pros. And one thing more, weren't they talking to pros during the process of making game? Like at IEM New York, Volcano, some players traveling to Seattle to Valve headquorters. Its been a whole year talking to pros and as i can hear, there are only slight changes, all teams say molotov is overpowered, many teams complain about maps, movement, recoil. I didnt play the game, CS:GO. I even wont, cause i got no time. But i will watch, and i dont wanna watch teams owning as CT.

One more thing. It looks like they listen to CS:S players more then CS 1.6. Maybe because there realy is more CS:S players. None of us can know statistics for that IF those steam number are inaccurate. Maybe even blog creator didnt get it right, cause this different time zones logic fails when 1.6 has more players than GO at any given time of day.

Hope i spelled everything right, cheers. :)
2012-11-05 23:40:45
The game changed a lot in 2 months, so it's not only slight changes.
2012-11-06 00:56:56
Can;t really tell if these settings are better until i play online, but cant
2012-11-06 00:15:51
CSGO its good game but need some upgrades but not like cs 1.6 better game.

zaihtman stop ASSLICKING all time 16 years old kid go drink milk and sleep. i think the game +18

TY
2012-11-06 00:20:11
Can you please repeat that in english?
2012-11-06 00:35:20
poor english but I can understand you
2012-11-06 05:56:28
*takes off tin foil cap* VALVES LIED TO US ABOUT STEAM NUMBERS GUYS!11!!1!!!!1!!
2012-11-06 00:22:09
Giving the new game a chance is a logical decision but bullshitting about stats is not! CS 1.6 has a strong user base in europe as well as asia and i am not referring to the pro scenes.
2012-11-06 00:22:53
can anyone explain me if the numbers are misleading how come biggest 1.6 tournaments had the similar number of spectators?
2012-11-06 00:30:00
I was once a diehard 1.6er but I realised in order for the game everyone here loves to stay alive, we need to encourage ALL FORMS of CS.

It doesn't matter how many of you fucking idiots say '1.6' is the best, all forms of CS are falling off the map and the only one that has a say in esports in this day and age is CS:GO.

That's the truth. GO is NOT the proper failure that CSS was, it has a chance to improve.

Stop shooting yourselves in the foot, the lot of you farm animals.
2012-11-06 00:44:50
well go has great graphic but 1.6 have movement+models+recoil and some other stuff, They just need to put this things together,or atleast be near
2012-11-06 02:19:48
Good job, I want to contact j3di , i need his emailid,Help.

Post edited 2012-11-06 02:00:32
2012-11-06 02:00:03
make molo only for Ts and add the silencer... problem solved
2012-11-06 10:03:18
:D
2012-11-06 11:02:40
All things he said are true. I had same talk with Ido from Valve later that day.

All we need is to find correct values for movement/recoil, try it and then send it to Valve so they can add it to the game. That's exactly what Valve said to me.

They also asked me to gather proteams feedback and send to them.

It is time to unite and tell Valve what we want for CSGO !

If you have stuff to address please mail me there : [email protected]
2012-11-06 10:07:38
Oh no! Does it mean no updates before dreamhack winter? :[
2012-11-06 11:42:11
Theres rumoured to be an update in November but I can't see them releasing it prior to DHW
2012-11-06 12:13:08
"make everything like in 1.6" mails incoming
2012-11-06 15:46:44
Need movement fix please. We need much more fluid and smooth movement and i hate that skating feeling.

Also would it be possible to make the game more colorful?
2012-11-07 18:07:29
digital vibrance +
2012-11-07 18:14:46
I would like just three things.

1. improvement in tapping instead of just spraying.
2. run and spray should be weaker. If you want good recoil you have to stand still or crouch. RUN AND SPRAY RUINS THE GAME.
3. movement should be more fluid (i don't know how to explain that)

Everything else is less important imo.
I will send you email...
2012-12-23 15:39:32
yeah fuck you 1.6 die hard fans saying OMG CHECK STEAM STATs

yeah fuck you all
2012-11-06 12:07:52
1.6 still had alot more viewers than source 9gs and GO
2012-11-06 15:57:48
Hi guys, I don't usually post round these parts but hopefully I can clear up some of what's been said here.

RECOIL
My publicised recoil model parameters came up from discussions with several pro players. My opinion is that they improve the competitive balance of rifles against the AWP/SMGs.

The functional changes they make are that tapping becomes slightly more accurate - you can tap a bit faster without recoil kicking the shots up.
Spraying becomes a little easier to control because the view-punch decay was increased - this means your mouse movements are less affected by the view-punch.
Due to the increased "view-punch decay" the amount of "view-punch" was then able to be increased slightly - this gives more feedback whilst shooting.
Recoil movement during spray is smoother, resulting in slightly slower horizontal shifting.
There is no change to the overall spray patterns and you'll be pressed to spot a visual change, though I'm sure all competitive players will notice a difference playing using these.

I'm still wishing for more feedback on these changes - even if you can only describe the feel that's ok.

Following on from this there is still quite a bit of tweaking to do as the changes affect ALL weapons and I don't wish to break GO's balance. So pistols etc. need to be re-tweaked individually and carefully.
Onwards from recoil I'd also like to make some small changes to the P90, AWP and possibly P250 - it makes sense to do this at the same time.
2012-11-06 22:10:15
MOLOTOVS (flame on?)
Zaihtam mentioned I'm "pro molotov", I sorta guess I am :) But not as it is right now!
CS is getting on now and needs rejuvenating to attract new players and keep the oldschoolers on their toes. I feel the molotov is a good gameplay innovation which needs tweaks rather than removal.
I've proposed a couple of suggestions on moving it toward area control rather than "throw and forget" defence.
Here's what I wrote on 'another e-sports news site :)':

"They simply need to make it possible but risky to pass through the flames, right now you can do so but it will take you down to very low hp, imo you should be on like 40-65 depending on how you traverse it.

1. Marginally slow down the spread of flames - so it's harder to stop a rush by throwing a reactionary molotov, but pre-molotovs still have a use.
2. Tweak the damage or speed reduction. My prefered approach would be to make the flames do a smaller base damage and the longer you stay in the more damage they do per second. So best to hop across them.

If this makes them too useless give them a small explosion damage bonus."

If we removed everything new so the game becomes "a 1.6 clone with better graphics" then unfortunately the gameplay will see the same fate, besides 1.6 (or CSS) do remain as an option for those who wish to play those games and graphics haven't stopped them yet.
If it still doesn't work out, only then would I ask for a cvar to remove their usage.
2012-11-06 22:10:53
MOVEMENT
My first concern when you mention "fixing" the movement is that not all of the maps in our competitive roster really suit the movement most are after.
So really we should first pursue more competitively viable maps - i.e. larger choke-points, areas better structured for jumping etc..
The sources for most maps are packaged with the game so anyone can get on with this - Volcano has taken it on himself to crack on tweaking a couple of maps, I'm sure he'd appreciate feedback.

The current cvar settings controlling running movement were provided from Steam forum feedback, of which I wasn't a part.
I am not particularly keen on the twinning of high friction and accel for competitive play, its less important to counter-strafe accurately and peaking becomes a bit easier.

But I'm waiting on changes from the devs as it's not possible to get the movement I desire by tweaking cvars (and I have access to engine cvars such as sv_airaccelerate).
For transparency as you guys don't get to see the pro forums, these changes include:
- Altering the acceleration so that it's weapon based (like CS1.6 and CSS), you'll then be able to counter-strafe the same amount of time with each weapon, have a mobility boost with pistols and accelerate slower with the AWP.
- Removing the application of the stamina penalty whilst airborne - which is reducing the effectiveness of "sv_airaccelerate" tweaking.
- Allowing public access to the cvar "sv_ladder_dampen" - which would allow us to remove the stickyness of ladders (like I did with zBlock in CSS).
2012-11-06 22:11:20
Well that turned out a lot longer than I was expecting ;)

Peace
2012-11-06 22:12:01
Thanks for the info ;)
2012-11-07 03:38:46
thanks for clearing things up
looking forward to those tweaks :D
2012-11-07 17:30:34
Interesting. Thanks.
2012-11-07 18:03:35
Starting with

Shorten its burn lenght with (example) like 0.5 - 1 sec, also its radius slightly and its DoT-impact aswell. How should the molotovs behave when stacked - how many additional percents (dot)dmg(?)

Some other important adjustments:

Tweak sight/-fire&smoke appearance - in order to make it more "dodgeable" and easierNfaster to pass by. Throwinglenght (plus mb its speed) and its bounce-mechanics - like how should it interact with the surroundings should it smash at first object impact or bounce on, etc.

If needed for 'perfect' balance perhaps intergrate separate moneysystem for molotovs? - making it less abuseable for the (currently winning) team with initially growing momentum for each round. Especially for CT's this can play out to a huge jackpot role getting the advantage and just steamrowll the shizzle to 13-2/14-1/15-0.. ? - even if the opposing teams lies on a quite equally skilled level, the (onesided) molotovlockdowns is a fact.

But more important, to balance it up - maps like Inferno really needs some wider passages, like in Banana. Since the nades in CS:GO plays a larger role - more powerful impacts. The maps in itself and how it is built around, rly shouldnt be the greater decider if you would like to avoid molotovs/HE's also flashes and smokes a little, little bit more frequent - ofc if skills in terms of brain, experience and awareness/focus is on your side and allows you to. Unless your opponents really are opportunistic and got that great sense of timing (sometimes ofc also combined with some luck factors) places them right in your teams face. By that, simply more or less winning them the round, then its Ok.
Like mentioned - the maps shouldnt be like narrow tubes, it will only turn it into more of a random-fiest.

That's how competitive CS should work, if I can say my opinion.. *..>

Perhaps there are more things concerning molotovs to think over.
But i agree with you, (competitive) CS should be ready for a new element after these 13 years of existence.. Its just more of a matter how big proportions there should be involved along with it. Tweak it right along with the right circumstances then it Should be nicely balanced "even" for competitive Counter-Strike.

Its both for in good and bad intentions - but this CS scene is conservative and "quite" rabid.

Post edited 2012-11-07 20:50:20
2012-11-07 20:37:23
thank you very much, keep up the good work! :)
2012-11-11 03:07:14
by: 100
#188
Do you know what movement cvars the devs are looking/willing to adjust? What exactly do they want to accomplish with movement?
2012-11-07 04:58:27
i guess you still dont understand that valve doesnt give a fuck about what the players think.. at least not to the extent they should, since the players are THE TARGET OF THE GAME
2012-11-07 01:37:14
Did you read at all? Developers coming in from the US just to talk to players for 5 days adn then do the same one month later for another 5 days. Flying in players to Seattle to talk to them and have them try out some of the changes.

How is that not "giving a fuck"?
2012-11-07 03:26:54
Lol couldn't have put it better myself
2012-11-07 03:39:31
so.. you just came from the moon dont you?

Post edited 2012-11-07 18:20:21
2012-11-07 18:19:41
It's fun to see that every thread conserning cs:go leads into fighting, arguing and bad-mouthing. It really makes you want to ask: hltv.org users, what the fuck?

:)
2012-11-07 18:32:18
+1 :D
2012-11-07 18:34:52
Everytime I read HLTV comments it makes me not want to be associated with the CS community.

Bunch of 12 year olds bickering over nothing and ultimately destroying CS from the inside out
2012-11-07 18:35:33
+1 :(
2012-11-07 18:38:33
+1 It's just sad. Hltv.org used to be a good site for all Counter-strike related. Now it's pretty much like this:

Valve sucks!!
cs:go sucks!!
cs 1.6> ALL!!
I don't like my mommy!!!
2012-11-07 18:40:25
Thanks for sharing with people not at eswc, lots of horrendous people commenting on this site ;(

Post edited 2012-11-07 18:45:28
2012-11-07 18:44:17
Nice outcome of the Blog overall. Clarified a lot of fuss-storm around. Good job Zaihtam. You nailed down really deep concerns about CS:GO. For all those who think he is against GO, he's not. He just predicted that if necessary changes are not made, GO will perish(and that may turn out to be true in near future, who knows).
And these kinda discussions will really help devs with the upcoming development of the Game. Nice to see people like Jedi stepping in and clearing things even more. Hope it will turn out to be a fruitful debate.
2012-11-08 07:37:22

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