DreamHack Summer 2013 Finnish Qual.
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lurppis about CS:GO and CSPromod
lurppis comment on NBK's speech about CS:GO:
"it's ironic to me that all the people who say people should give it a chance or must support it or all forms of cs will die, are the people who are in a position to benefit the most from the game becoming popular. it's always either competitive gamers who wish to continue playing when cs:go takes over, or young kids who could never make it in cs 1.6 or cs:s but now think they stand a chance at cs:go.
in my opinion the game is getting exactly what it deserves (apart from the initial hyping) - if people don't like it, they will speak their mind. if people do like it, they will also do the same (as seen in comments). i think it's ridiculous to expect people to pretend like the game is better than it is, just to keep the word "counter-strike" alive - personally, and i have some skin in the game (will touch on that later), i couldn't really care less if the fps scene or cs-series dies as an esport, if cs 1.6 (which is the only title i am interested in esports) is no longer played. you're essentially saying that you should watch MLS if NBA was on the verge of dying, because otherwise games with a round ball would no longer be popular.
i'm actually a little torn because as many chances as i've given cs:go and valve/hpe, i think the game is really bad, has little chances of improving and the companies behind it are doing a terrible job making a competitive game. rationally, i think the game only deserves to fail. however, because of my place in the community and working part time within esports, it would actually benefit me as i would make more $ if cs:go got bigger. in the end, i think the game is bad and i wouldn't be surprised if it flopped as a competitive esports title, but if it doesn't, good for me i guess?
the people saying you need to play it for tens of hours to start liking it are essentially the ones saying you should just date fat chicks because you might learn to love them eventually and theoretically they could even lose the weight (even though in reality they just love food too much). if the game fails, it's because the game isn't good enough. if it makes it, it means it was good enough in the eyes of the general public (which might not be much of the current 1.6/cs:s scene anyways) - in the end, the game will get exactly what it deserves, as judged by the players. and if it fails because "people didn't give it a chance", it just means it wasn't good enough, and nothing else.
i actually feel a little sick because after so many years of playing, maybe i won't turn down the easy money doing little work for a game i consider shit, but it also goes against what i've done all my career in esports (which is speaking my mind). oh well, we'll see how it goes, maybe i'll learn to lie to everyone just like every politician and 99% of public figures in the real world (and mostly in esports) too."
Also some guy asked:
"lurppis,
Do you have a published view on CSP, specifically with regards to the new development team (a la 1.09+)? Any review (or short criticism) directed at CSP seems to think that the long time between releases makes it a non-starter but under the new development team the game seems to be making solid progress and the soon-to-be released (for real this time) 1.09 looked very, very akin to CS 1.6 during the short deathmatch alpha open testing awhile ago.
I would really love to see the general view of the CS scene be altered for CSP as it seems to be headed in the right direction. 1.09 will be a stable enough version for competitive play and one that I think if people gave it a fair shot would be embraced (not forced like CS:GO at the moment). Especially with new models being implemented in 1.10 I cannot fathom a reason for the CS scene to not gather support around it especially if the general consensus for CS:GO ends up being abysmal as I am afraid it will be barring a release date cancellation and VALVe forcing HPE to listen to the serious player base.
Anyways, thoughts?"
He answered:
"i have played the 1.09 version of csp and i think it's a great game, in fact i think it would be a solid replacement for cs 1.6 and i would have no problem playing it - in fact, playing a newer version of the same game might motivate me to play more.
i know the csp team is working on some cool stuff right now but the game's future depends fully on how that plays out - all we can do is wait and see, but i truly hope their plan works out because it could still save, to me, an interesting fps title in esports."
"it's ironic to me that all the people who say people should give it a chance or must support it or all forms of cs will die, are the people who are in a position to benefit the most from the game becoming popular. it's always either competitive gamers who wish to continue playing when cs:go takes over, or young kids who could never make it in cs 1.6 or cs:s but now think they stand a chance at cs:go.
in my opinion the game is getting exactly what it deserves (apart from the initial hyping) - if people don't like it, they will speak their mind. if people do like it, they will also do the same (as seen in comments). i think it's ridiculous to expect people to pretend like the game is better than it is, just to keep the word "counter-strike" alive - personally, and i have some skin in the game (will touch on that later), i couldn't really care less if the fps scene or cs-series dies as an esport, if cs 1.6 (which is the only title i am interested in esports) is no longer played. you're essentially saying that you should watch MLS if NBA was on the verge of dying, because otherwise games with a round ball would no longer be popular.
i'm actually a little torn because as many chances as i've given cs:go and valve/hpe, i think the game is really bad, has little chances of improving and the companies behind it are doing a terrible job making a competitive game. rationally, i think the game only deserves to fail. however, because of my place in the community and working part time within esports, it would actually benefit me as i would make more $ if cs:go got bigger. in the end, i think the game is bad and i wouldn't be surprised if it flopped as a competitive esports title, but if it doesn't, good for me i guess?
the people saying you need to play it for tens of hours to start liking it are essentially the ones saying you should just date fat chicks because you might learn to love them eventually and theoretically they could even lose the weight (even though in reality they just love food too much). if the game fails, it's because the game isn't good enough. if it makes it, it means it was good enough in the eyes of the general public (which might not be much of the current 1.6/cs:s scene anyways) - in the end, the game will get exactly what it deserves, as judged by the players. and if it fails because "people didn't give it a chance", it just means it wasn't good enough, and nothing else.
i actually feel a little sick because after so many years of playing, maybe i won't turn down the easy money doing little work for a game i consider shit, but it also goes against what i've done all my career in esports (which is speaking my mind). oh well, we'll see how it goes, maybe i'll learn to lie to everyone just like every politician and 99% of public figures in the real world (and mostly in esports) too."
Also some guy asked:
"lurppis,
Do you have a published view on CSP, specifically with regards to the new development team (a la 1.09+)? Any review (or short criticism) directed at CSP seems to think that the long time between releases makes it a non-starter but under the new development team the game seems to be making solid progress and the soon-to-be released (for real this time) 1.09 looked very, very akin to CS 1.6 during the short deathmatch alpha open testing awhile ago.
I would really love to see the general view of the CS scene be altered for CSP as it seems to be headed in the right direction. 1.09 will be a stable enough version for competitive play and one that I think if people gave it a fair shot would be embraced (not forced like CS:GO at the moment). Especially with new models being implemented in 1.10 I cannot fathom a reason for the CS scene to not gather support around it especially if the general consensus for CS:GO ends up being abysmal as I am afraid it will be barring a release date cancellation and VALVe forcing HPE to listen to the serious player base.
Anyways, thoughts?"
He answered:
"i have played the 1.09 version of csp and i think it's a great game, in fact i think it would be a solid replacement for cs 1.6 and i would have no problem playing it - in fact, playing a newer version of the same game might motivate me to play more.
i know the csp team is working on some cool stuff right now but the game's future depends fully on how that plays out - all we can do is wait and see, but i truly hope their plan works out because it could still save, to me, an interesting fps title in esports."
I completely agree i just hope that there will be big sponsors for Promod because its the perfect game to replace 1.6. I admit i didnt try it at first because it looked like Source but after i downloaded it and played its simply an amazing game the movement, the recoil is similar to 1.6 the graphics are great. Just hope that some sponsors will see how good this game is and we will have a great competitive Promod scene.
2012-07-20 03:40:09
Did you download it from pirat site, or there is one page from where I can download it? Is there pirat version and official version? (Has it some differences between full version and pirat version?)
I don't know nothing about this game, but after this interview i really want to play it.
sry4bad eng.
I don't know nothing about this game, but after this interview i really want to play it.
sry4bad eng.
2012-07-20 15:26:51
here you go:
http://wiki.cspromod.com/Install
There's no pirate version. You can download the official version right from cspromod.com.
Post edited 2012-07-20 15:43:33
http://wiki.cspromod.com/Install
There's no pirate version. You can download the official version right from cspromod.com.
Post edited 2012-07-20 15:43:33
2012-07-20 15:42:20
+1
2012-10-11 23:19:52
I only think that CSP should create new maps from scratch. Playing the same maps for around 10 years is getting boring and everything became predictable.
I remember back in 2003 when I started playing and until 2008 there was always something new to pay attention on the pro scene. Today is all about the same basic tatics and much more based on aim.
Bringing only new maps would make things more interesting in my opinion.
ps: I still think that the physics of 1.6 are the best for FPS games.
I remember back in 2003 when I started playing and until 2008 there was always something new to pay attention on the pro scene. Today is all about the same basic tatics and much more based on aim.
Bringing only new maps would make things more interesting in my opinion.
ps: I still think that the physics of 1.6 are the best for FPS games.
2012-07-20 03:44:20
true true
The maps should be:
Classic maps:
csp_dust2
csp_inferno
csp_nuke
csp_train
csp_aztec (they balanced it)
Best competitive custom maps from the past 12 years:
csp_season (new for 1.6 and casual players)
csp_lite (new for most 1.6 and casual players)
csp_tuscan (a lot of casual players still don't know this map)
csp_mirage (still very unknown)
csp_forge (new for CSS and casual players)
Also russka got some potential. Just some tweaks needed.
At least one completely new map:
csp_xxx
2on2 maps:
csp_dust
csp_aztec (with the classic layout)
Post edited 2012-07-20 03:59:25
The maps should be:
Classic maps:
csp_dust2
csp_inferno
csp_nuke
csp_train
csp_aztec (they balanced it)
Best competitive custom maps from the past 12 years:
csp_season (new for 1.6 and casual players)
csp_lite (new for most 1.6 and casual players)
csp_tuscan (a lot of casual players still don't know this map)
csp_mirage (still very unknown)
csp_forge (new for CSS and casual players)
Also russka got some potential. Just some tweaks needed.
At least one completely new map:
csp_xxx
2on2 maps:
csp_dust
csp_aztec (with the classic layout)
Post edited 2012-07-20 03:59:25
2012-07-20 03:58:03
I believe that they should create at least 5 new balanced maps. If people will play the exact same maps with the same tatics, I don't see the point in this game.
Organizers clearly want new stuff that will bring new people into competitive gaming, like Dota 2 and SC2. "But Dota 2 is simply a remake of Dota, so they don't want new stuff at all". Nop, Dota is always evolving with new heroes and items, so there is always new content. There's a expansion coming for SC2 too.
CS got stuck with an old engine and same maps for too long. So new players don't want to play it, because they don't have any chance against the old guys.
I think you got my point. I still like to watch some matches, but there's barely something new.
Organizers clearly want new stuff that will bring new people into competitive gaming, like Dota 2 and SC2. "But Dota 2 is simply a remake of Dota, so they don't want new stuff at all". Nop, Dota is always evolving with new heroes and items, so there is always new content. There's a expansion coming for SC2 too.
CS got stuck with an old engine and same maps for too long. So new players don't want to play it, because they don't have any chance against the old guys.
I think you got my point. I still like to watch some matches, but there's barely something new.
2012-07-20 04:11:38
Yes, I would love to see new maps too. But we shouldn't forget:
1. It's a lot of work to make a perfect balanced 5on5 map (especially to make it look good and clean in the source engine). In fact we only saw 2-3 new balanced maps in 12 years.
2. A lot of people still love the current maps. If they won't be featured in CSP they will dislike CSP.
3. The most important thing is to bring new people into the world of CS. These people don't care how old the maps are because all maps are somehow "new" for them.
The problem is a lack of level designers. It would be awesome if Brute (creator of tuscan, forge and russka) would be official level designer for CSP. I heard he's developing some new maps for CS 1.6. Maybe he could also make a CSP version...
Look at those idiots from HPE/Valve. They haven't made any new map for CS:GO (just revamped some CSS and L4D maps). They won't even feature the most popular custom maps of the past years (like tuscan). I mean that's a fucking game studio. They get paid for creating maps and stuff (the thing is: they have no idea how CS works and therefor how to create a balanced map; in fact not even one of the maps we play today is originally made by Valve/HPE).
Post edited 2012-07-20 04:52:13
1. It's a lot of work to make a perfect balanced 5on5 map (especially to make it look good and clean in the source engine). In fact we only saw 2-3 new balanced maps in 12 years.
2. A lot of people still love the current maps. If they won't be featured in CSP they will dislike CSP.
3. The most important thing is to bring new people into the world of CS. These people don't care how old the maps are because all maps are somehow "new" for them.
The problem is a lack of level designers. It would be awesome if Brute (creator of tuscan, forge and russka) would be official level designer for CSP. I heard he's developing some new maps for CS 1.6. Maybe he could also make a CSP version...
Look at those idiots from HPE/Valve. They haven't made any new map for CS:GO (just revamped some CSS and L4D maps). They won't even feature the most popular custom maps of the past years (like tuscan). I mean that's a fucking game studio. They get paid for creating maps and stuff (the thing is: they have no idea how CS works and therefor how to create a balanced map; in fact not even one of the maps we play today is originally made by Valve/HPE).
Post edited 2012-07-20 04:52:13
2012-07-20 04:41:38
Mirage is h*ll of a great map, it got fine dynamics and great balance.
For 1.6 its not an unknown map anymore. Parts of 2011 and especially 2012 it has been one of the main/core deciding maps at biggest and most prestigues playoff-matches.
For 1.6 its not an unknown map anymore. Parts of 2011 and especially 2012 it has been one of the main/core deciding maps at biggest and most prestigues playoff-matches.
2012-10-11 21:40:11
What i don't understand, people are saying CS 1.6 is dead. 90% of people are not "pro players" and they never played on "major tournaments" so why they are worried if SK or ESC will win 500e and not 5000e?. So if for example "SK Gaming" move to CS:GO, will this mean CS 1.6 is Dead? Ofc not. Also why people think this game is dead, go on esl versus (example only) and you ll find in any moment 500-600 people playing. Also statistic from steam says:
Current Players Peak Today
46,194 62,162 Team Fortress 2
38,974 67,216 Dota 2
27,748 34,746 Sid Meier's Civilization V
22,839 34,610 The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
21,860 52,795 Counter-Strike
18,529 46,506 Counter-Strike: Source
So game is still alive? Many of this 90% players will continue to play on some online cups, gathers, and other things. So in my opinion, CS IS NOT DEAD, its just have brake. You remember WCG 2005 when CSS was played? And on next one was out. Valve need money, they are not earning anymore from 1.6, so in my opinion after CS;GO release, and alot of ppl buy CS;GO (valve earn money) i think they ll put 1.6 back on place where deserve it. So, dont worry, and wait :)!
Post edited 2012-07-20 03:50:49
Current Players Peak Today
46,194 62,162 Team Fortress 2
38,974 67,216 Dota 2
27,748 34,746 Sid Meier's Civilization V
22,839 34,610 The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
21,860 52,795 Counter-Strike
18,529 46,506 Counter-Strike: Source
So game is still alive? Many of this 90% players will continue to play on some online cups, gathers, and other things. So in my opinion, CS IS NOT DEAD, its just have brake. You remember WCG 2005 when CSS was played? And on next one was out. Valve need money, they are not earning anymore from 1.6, so in my opinion after CS;GO release, and alot of ppl buy CS;GO (valve earn money) i think they ll put 1.6 back on place where deserve it. So, dont worry, and wait :)!
Post edited 2012-07-20 03:50:49
2012-07-20 03:49:26
Sorry, but this won't happen. We got an other situation than 2005. There's a huge lack of young players. Some years ago the German ESL ladder was full of teams (I guess more than 300), now there are just a few teams left. We're running out of players (and so does CSS). That's the reality.
Even though the player-base is still very strong, we have to do something before it's too late.
Post edited 2012-07-20 04:08:14
Even though the player-base is still very strong, we have to do something before it's too late.
Post edited 2012-07-20 04:08:14
2012-07-20 04:04:37
Lets wait and see what will happen :)! CS;GO series on ESL (tournament) you saw any 1.6 clan that played on this tournaments? No at all, only CSS. So in my opinion, it ll take more then CS;GO to kill 1.6 :)!
2012-07-20 04:09:43
CSGO in BETA yet and in USA ESWC Qualifiers.. look how many teams...
http://eswc.gamecom.plantronics.com/?page=stem&..
like old CPL's.. young players are coming.
Post edited 2012-07-20 18:07:28
http://eswc.gamecom.plantronics.com/?page=stem&..
like old CPL's.. young players are coming.
Post edited 2012-07-20 18:07:28
2012-07-20 18:06:18
i think a giant part of why people play counter-strike apart from it being fun is the competition. i know if i'm not playing for a team, i do not play cs at all. if there are no more big tournaments, all the top teams will stop playing and it will just be average players playing against each other - it may still be fun for those guys, but it won't be the same.
part of what makes any sport fun to watch is having a lot on the line - whether it is prestige, money or something else. to me, watching esc and sk (who seem dead as of right now in cs 1.6 anyways) play for 500e simply isn't interesting because i KNOW neither team is so into it. it's why watching teams play major events for $50k is by far the most important. you can already tell teams are practicing less and less for tournaments (and have been for some months) and to me that makes the scene less interesting.
i was probably a little too cynical in my esea news comment because if the top players switched over to cs:go it could still become a fun game to watch - but only if the top players moved. i would still watch f0rest and markeloff play cs:go sometimes, but i have no interest in watching teams like verygames or mtw (who just won the go4csgo cup) play the game.
on a side note, valve has nothing to do with cs 1.6 being dropped and that is why they won't "bring it back", the players will be gone quickly and no one will even think about. besides, valve has made so much money with steam that counter-strike isn't a big deal for them.
part of what makes any sport fun to watch is having a lot on the line - whether it is prestige, money or something else. to me, watching esc and sk (who seem dead as of right now in cs 1.6 anyways) play for 500e simply isn't interesting because i KNOW neither team is so into it. it's why watching teams play major events for $50k is by far the most important. you can already tell teams are practicing less and less for tournaments (and have been for some months) and to me that makes the scene less interesting.
i was probably a little too cynical in my esea news comment because if the top players switched over to cs:go it could still become a fun game to watch - but only if the top players moved. i would still watch f0rest and markeloff play cs:go sometimes, but i have no interest in watching teams like verygames or mtw (who just won the go4csgo cup) play the game.
on a side note, valve has nothing to do with cs 1.6 being dropped and that is why they won't "bring it back", the players will be gone quickly and no one will even think about. besides, valve has made so much money with steam that counter-strike isn't a big deal for them.
2012-07-20 07:25:27
Fat chicks aren't cool.
2012-07-20 03:53:34
i disagree in some things with him, but i respect him a lot for the way he expresses himself c:
2012-07-20 03:54:07
Totally agree :)
2012-07-20 04:25:54
Totally agree with:
i think it's a great game, in fact i think it would be a solid replacement for cs 1.6 and i would have no problem playing it - in fact, playing a newer version of the same game might motivate me to play more.
It's always fun playing a new game, and everybody has their chance to become one of the best.
i think it's a great game, in fact i think it would be a solid replacement for cs 1.6 and i would have no problem playing it - in fact, playing a newer version of the same game might motivate me to play more.
It's always fun playing a new game, and everybody has their chance to become one of the best.
2012-07-20 04:31:37
lurppis maybe you dont care about this but you have my respect gl little cryer xd
2012-07-20 06:14:38
People are only excited about csgo because they're hoping for a new and better community to be born. Game is secondary thing. Now that big leagues pulled the plug for 1.6 its found out that this community has done nothing in the past 10 ten years to really establish itself among esports world. this site for example is not a community hub for anything but simply a fansite for "pro"-players. just a tabloid for 1.6 and really not something that would make 1.6 any bigger. for css cadred is pretty much the same, it became from gaming organization this "neutral" newssite and instead of trying to push css forward they just bitched about 1.6 while waiting and waiting just to notice that when 1.6 finally dies its not gonna be css whats gonna be played. well played. biggest resources are just absolutely wasted
communities need to start fixing this shit and start making something up. its not game devs or sponsors you should worry about but the players playing your game. steamstats show plenty of players each day which are divided over several games and more likely over several mods/gametypes and finally over several different leagues. how the fuck can anyone be interested of that if you dont make it so?
Soon it turns out that gaming orgas dont have any more money to use because of cs:go and events dont need to add any FPS-games to their hosted competitions and in the end there will be just 3rd counterstrike game added to divide all CS-players. Elsewhere SM will die within a year because their whole game philosophy is to let create players own formats/maps which for competitive scene will never work. In the end we're stuck with the same fps games we're with today.
communities need to start fixing this shit and start making something up. its not game devs or sponsors you should worry about but the players playing your game. steamstats show plenty of players each day which are divided over several games and more likely over several mods/gametypes and finally over several different leagues. how the fuck can anyone be interested of that if you dont make it so?
Soon it turns out that gaming orgas dont have any more money to use because of cs:go and events dont need to add any FPS-games to their hosted competitions and in the end there will be just 3rd counterstrike game added to divide all CS-players. Elsewhere SM will die within a year because their whole game philosophy is to let create players own formats/maps which for competitive scene will never work. In the end we're stuck with the same fps games we're with today.
2012-07-20 06:17:55
I like Tomi, he doesn't bullshit you like most personalities in eSports (i.e. Tasteless (Day9 <3), Artosis (both seem to believe sc2 is eSports), most of the people related to eSports in USA, CS:S douches like the fat guy in charge of Cadred, etc).
Valve/HPE are doing an horrible job and what's worse is that they are not even trying to learn about esports and what makes CS 1.6 so good.
Post edited 2012-07-20 06:26:32
Valve/HPE are doing an horrible job and what's worse is that they are not even trying to learn about esports and what makes CS 1.6 so good.
Post edited 2012-07-20 06:26:32
2012-07-20 06:23:34
SC2 is esports at the moment ...literally ...it has produced more money in tournaments in 2 years than CS did in 10 .....
we can only hope CS will some day rise up to what SC2 is , but that is impossible
we can only hope CS will some day rise up to what SC2 is , but that is impossible
2012-07-20 10:09:27
glad to know prize money = esports
2012-07-20 12:15:57
its not just the prizemoney, its the salaries ...starcraft 2 players make 5 times as much as cs players , and thats just europe
2012-07-20 12:28:57
glad to know money = esports*
2012-07-20 13:27:44
Actually it is about money.
2012-07-20 16:57:49
thoughts like that make me not wanna have anything to do with esports
2012-07-20 19:09:37
so you're saying you would practice for 6 hours a day for no money or prizemoney ? seems legit
2012-07-20 20:29:48
i think counter-strike was perfectly fine the way it was up until 2011 ended. if we could have the 2010 cs tourney list forever i'd be more than happy. i don't see why more money (a lá sc2) is needed.
2012-07-20 20:41:02
+1
2012-07-21 02:24:18
A quote from yourself:
"watching esc and sk (who seem dead as of right now in cs 1.6 anyways) play for 500e simply isn't interesting because i KNOW neither team is so into it. it's why watching teams play major events for $50k is by far the most important."
"watching esc and sk (who seem dead as of right now in cs 1.6 anyways) play for 500e simply isn't interesting because i KNOW neither team is so into it. it's why watching teams play major events for $50k is by far the most important."
2012-10-11 21:24:22
Nothing new from Tomi to be illogical, he must be a high level troll...
Another statement that doesn't make sense, "i would still watch f0rest and markeloff play cs:go sometimes, but i have no interest in watching teams like verygames or mtw (who just won the go4csgo cup) play the game."
Like only established 1.6 players can be good at another game...
Another statement that doesn't make sense, "i would still watch f0rest and markeloff play cs:go sometimes, but i have no interest in watching teams like verygames or mtw (who just won the go4csgo cup) play the game."
Like only established 1.6 players can be good at another game...
2012-10-11 21:43:38
refer to the comment below.
how does it not make sense? i'm not interested in playing cs:go so i will never appreciate how hard something is to do in the game (i don't plan on watching it tons either).
i do however appreciate the skill of players like f0rest, markeloff or neo, so i will tune in when i have nothing better to do and see them playing.
mr. logic yourself there... as if it had anything to do with them being good at the game. emulate was arguably good in 2007, doesn't mean i would have EVER watched them play.
how does it not make sense? i'm not interested in playing cs:go so i will never appreciate how hard something is to do in the game (i don't plan on watching it tons either).
i do however appreciate the skill of players like f0rest, markeloff or neo, so i will tune in when i have nothing better to do and see them playing.
mr. logic yourself there... as if it had anything to do with them being good at the game. emulate was arguably good in 2007, doesn't mean i would have EVER watched them play.
2012-10-11 22:45:51
completely different, mr sound logic. i think cs was perfectly fine the way it was in 2005-2011, there was no need for sc2 or lol type money. there obviously needs to be something on the line (more than 500e) for teams to put in 110% effort, but i don't see the need to make gaming "huge" that everyone else does.
anything else?
anything else?
2012-10-11 22:44:31
you are being so hypocrite. you said that the players(including you) only get truly involved when its about money. then you said that "thoughts like that makes you feel like not having anything to do with esports". "oh, i only play cs when im in a team. other than that i dont even touch cs" - which means you only play for the money.
i admire you as a player. but you are not making any sense here.
i admire you as a player. but you are not making any sense here.
2012-10-11 23:08:36
money usually goes hand in hand with prestige. no one is interested in winning an online tournament after so many years of competition. i would however at any point fly to an interesting destination for a tournament, but i have no desire to ever go to germany, france or denmark if i don't absolutely have to.
people associating money with cs makes me not want to have anything to do with esports. you play for the competition, but without anything on the line the competition hardly exists. that's just a cold hard fact.
i play counter-strike for the competition. if i'm not on a team, i won't attend a tournament so there is no point in playing.
competition =! money =! prestige.
people associating money with cs makes me not want to have anything to do with esports. you play for the competition, but without anything on the line the competition hardly exists. that's just a cold hard fact.
i play counter-strike for the competition. if i'm not on a team, i won't attend a tournament so there is no point in playing.
competition =! money =! prestige.
2012-10-11 23:22:09
so, at some point, you play for the money. which is alright. you are the one making a big deal out of it, not me.
2012-10-12 00:32:25
nope, you play for the competition/prestige, which the money is a part of.
2012-10-12 00:34:34
you sounded like a politician, which is ironic.
2012-10-12 00:51:46
you are obviously delutional, CS 1.6 and its fame was what made esports to be in TV, Starcraft 2 is not even in TV (Broodwar has been and it is only popular in korea, it died loong time ago in the rest of the world).
Starcraft 2 is only popular in the USA, if it happens to die there [like many, many other bigger eSpors (i.e Quake, CS 1.6, DotA, Broodwar (not better marketed though)] it will die worldwide cuz sponsors are mainly there.
and btw, LoL > SC2 by far and both are terrible versions of good games. Wait to see a good game like DotA 2 shine and you will see what eSports really is. It's not far to replace LoL in the biggest competitions, it already replaced it in the WCG and ESWC.
Starcraft 2 is only popular in the USA, if it happens to die there [like many, many other bigger eSpors (i.e Quake, CS 1.6, DotA, Broodwar (not better marketed though)] it will die worldwide cuz sponsors are mainly there.
and btw, LoL > SC2 by far and both are terrible versions of good games. Wait to see a good game like DotA 2 shine and you will see what eSports really is. It's not far to replace LoL in the biggest competitions, it already replaced it in the WCG and ESWC.
2012-07-20 19:37:20
Starcraft 2 is only popular in the USA
hahahahahaha
hahahahahaha
2012-07-20 20:03:25
laugh as much as you want, everything big comes from the USA and Blizzard at this point. Dreamhack, ESWC, IEM/ESL Stuff is only what europe has to compete against MLG, IPL, and even some lifestyle brands sponsoring tournaments in USA. Only in SC2 you see tournaments paying players to attend their tournaments, i.e. MLG, IPL, and thats because it is a 1vs1 game, otherwise it would suffer as much as team games.
If it wasn't for Blizzard paying KeSPA to drop Broodwar it wouldn't be even popular in Korea. A country that still prefers Broodwar and look at new RTS like low developed games that will go away in a coupel of years. LoL is far more popular than SC2 in korea anyways.
Post edited 2012-07-20 20:17:21
If it wasn't for Blizzard paying KeSPA to drop Broodwar it wouldn't be even popular in Korea. A country that still prefers Broodwar and look at new RTS like low developed games that will go away in a coupel of years. LoL is far more popular than SC2 in korea anyways.
Post edited 2012-07-20 20:17:21
2012-07-20 20:14:12
you are delusional one sorry ...
Starcraft 2 is the closest thing to a global esport as it gets ...it's hugely popular everyone, but MOSTLY in korea, it was more popular there way before kespa dropped broodwar ....
and pretty much the top players are 90% korean ....
Starcraft 2 is the closest thing to a global esport as it gets ...it's hugely popular everyone, but MOSTLY in korea, it was more popular there way before kespa dropped broodwar ....
and pretty much the top players are 90% korean ....
2012-07-20 20:31:52
the koreans have dominated the Starcraft scene since day one, 15 years back in time, starcraft 2 being a much easier game than broodwar just made things easier for non top broodwar players to get fame especially outside korea.
just compare the crowd of the GSL and the crowd of the OSL, theres a huge difference. Starcraft 2 is nothing in korea compared to Broodwar or LoL.
PS: LoL and DotA are much global than SC2 with top teams from around the world. I wouldn't call SC2 "global" cuz there are only like 2-3 non-korean players worth watching, ironically none of them is from the USA, the country that is pushing more money for the game.
just compare the crowd of the GSL and the crowd of the OSL, theres a huge difference. Starcraft 2 is nothing in korea compared to Broodwar or LoL.
PS: LoL and DotA are much global than SC2 with top teams from around the world. I wouldn't call SC2 "global" cuz there are only like 2-3 non-korean players worth watching, ironically none of them is from the USA, the country that is pushing more money for the game.
2012-07-21 01:14:16
the gameplay of 1.6 is mainly!! the weapons, recoil, spray etc it must be the same but more modern! not oldskool
2012-07-20 07:16:53
lurpppis is right
but i don't think CSPromod will stand any chance if CS:GO is launched since it will simply attract more players
and tournaments will preffer to push CSGO instead of promod :(
but i don't think CSPromod will stand any chance if CS:GO is launched since it will simply attract more players
and tournaments will preffer to push CSGO instead of promod :(
2012-07-20 10:10:43
agree with lurppis
2012-07-20 10:13:40
also, source players are just as bad, they are just noobs who couldn't make it big in 1.6 ...so they picked source cus the skillcap is much lower
2012-07-20 10:27:17
+1
2012-07-20 10:48:33
+1
2012-10-13 07:47:15
really big talking over there lurppis im totally with u.
Valve is trying to kill something that made them rich,famous,good, proud (CS 1.6)
o/
Post edited 2012-07-20 11:02:02
Valve is trying to kill something that made them rich,famous,good, proud (CS 1.6)
o/
Post edited 2012-07-20 11:02:02
2012-07-20 11:01:03
1+
2012-07-20 12:23:45
CS 1.6 is great ! Why the hell do you want to replace it ?!!
2012-07-20 13:27:47
I certainly don't always agree with lurppis but I think his views on CS:GO are spot on.
If you don't like CS:GO you:
- Haven't played it enough.
- Haven't realized it is a BETA and that everything will be magically fixed when it is released.
- Are selfish because you like 1.6 more (= you don't want FPS eSports to survive).
Those points seem to be what a lot of CS:GO supporters go to and it really doesn't make much sense if you ask me. Since CGS Source has been featured in little to no major events and yet the community kept playing it. Now that both games are dying a lot of them seem to agree that we should all switch to CS:GO, but surely them switching to 1.6 (plenty of chances from 2003 to 2012) would have been better for us?
Carmac has said that the IEM sponsors have never mentioned graphics, so gameplay should be the most important thing, right? The Source community didn't switch to 1.6 all these years because they prefer that gameplay, but because we prefer 1.6's to CS:GO's we are suddenly selfish and retarded. Gotta love it.
Post edited 2012-07-20 15:48:34
If you don't like CS:GO you:
- Haven't played it enough.
- Haven't realized it is a BETA and that everything will be magically fixed when it is released.
- Are selfish because you like 1.6 more (= you don't want FPS eSports to survive).
Those points seem to be what a lot of CS:GO supporters go to and it really doesn't make much sense if you ask me. Since CGS Source has been featured in little to no major events and yet the community kept playing it. Now that both games are dying a lot of them seem to agree that we should all switch to CS:GO, but surely them switching to 1.6 (plenty of chances from 2003 to 2012) would have been better for us?
Carmac has said that the IEM sponsors have never mentioned graphics, so gameplay should be the most important thing, right? The Source community didn't switch to 1.6 all these years because they prefer that gameplay, but because we prefer 1.6's to CS:GO's we are suddenly selfish and retarded. Gotta love it.
Post edited 2012-07-20 15:48:34
2012-07-20 15:47:31
I'm kinda sick and noob in mood of reading all the interview , I just read the last sentence and yeah I say lurppis is right if I think he wrote what I think xD...
Yes probably CSP won't stand a chance to CS:GO because CS:GO it's gonna be "more attractive" when it's launched but one thing is certain : CS:GO doesn't stand a chance againts CSP in gameplay. Cause the guys who built CS:GO made a very big mistake.
The plan should have been this : Make from CS:GO a game with the gameplay of 1.6 with improved graphics , so people will still play it as a secondary CS1.6. ~ Instead of making this they put graphics of "source" and they "forgot" to add the gampeplay of 1.6(like shooting recoil , movements etc...) and they made everything similar to CS:S , so that kinda fucked up the game.
Hoping and waiting for CSP 1.09/10 to be ready soon , cause last time I played 1.07(currently installing 1.08 while speaking) I really enjoyed it more than CS:GO , and IF CS1.6 is ever gonna die , the "replace" game for sure WON'T be CS:GO(a console game btw) , cause it's a CS:S+CoD/BF mixed game and it's made by the same idiots from valve which ruined the series with CS:S , atleast CSP is made by someone listening to more feedback from the real CS1.6 Community.
Yes probably CSP won't stand a chance to CS:GO because CS:GO it's gonna be "more attractive" when it's launched but one thing is certain : CS:GO doesn't stand a chance againts CSP in gameplay. Cause the guys who built CS:GO made a very big mistake.
The plan should have been this : Make from CS:GO a game with the gameplay of 1.6 with improved graphics , so people will still play it as a secondary CS1.6. ~ Instead of making this they put graphics of "source" and they "forgot" to add the gampeplay of 1.6(like shooting recoil , movements etc...) and they made everything similar to CS:S , so that kinda fucked up the game.
Hoping and waiting for CSP 1.09/10 to be ready soon , cause last time I played 1.07(currently installing 1.08 while speaking) I really enjoyed it more than CS:GO , and IF CS1.6 is ever gonna die , the "replace" game for sure WON'T be CS:GO(a console game btw) , cause it's a CS:S+CoD/BF mixed game and it's made by the same idiots from valve which ruined the series with CS:S , atleast CSP is made by someone listening to more feedback from the real CS1.6 Community.
2012-07-20 16:12:11
None of organizations gonna pick up CSP, keep dreaming
2012-07-20 16:16:06
CS:GO will never be a better game than CS 1.6, keep dreaming
2012-07-20 16:49:31
+1111111111111111111111111111111
2012-07-20 17:03:13
in your world - yes
reality - its already better
reality - its already better
2012-07-20 18:22:18
Kinda fun to see that everybody is just buttfucking lurppis in this thread, it's awesome. :D
Cs 1.6 won't get bigger anymore and new games will come. Hopefully CS:GO is one of them. The game isn't bad at all. Promod won't success anyways. The graphics are outdated so why should it motivate new players to play it. It's the same like 1.6 right now. The 1.6 community is so stubborn, it's unbelievable. Obviously every CSS player will switch to CS:GO and many players from other games will join the community, so do some 1.6 pros. Lurppissed has/had always different opinions. So why would I give a fuck about one single CS 1.6 pro. =D
Post edited 2012-07-20 17:06:46
Cs 1.6 won't get bigger anymore and new games will come. Hopefully CS:GO is one of them. The game isn't bad at all. Promod won't success anyways. The graphics are outdated so why should it motivate new players to play it. It's the same like 1.6 right now. The 1.6 community is so stubborn, it's unbelievable. Obviously every CSS player will switch to CS:GO and many players from other games will join the community, so do some 1.6 pros. Lurppissed has/had always different opinions. So why would I give a fuck about one single CS 1.6 pro. =D
Post edited 2012-07-20 17:06:46
2012-07-20 17:04:29
It's obvious that CS:S players will switch to CS:GO because it's similar to CS:GO but not to CS 1.6.
And it's all about corporacy like Intel, nVidia, ATI, AMD, they want to sell their new products so they're searching for demanding games.
So simply CSP devteam will write that their mod need really good processor and graphic card, and voilà.
And it's all about corporacy like Intel, nVidia, ATI, AMD, they want to sell their new products so they're searching for demanding games.
So simply CSP devteam will write that their mod need really good processor and graphic card, and voilà.
2012-07-20 17:11:04
So simply CSP devteam will write that their mod need really good processor and graphic card, and voilà.
Kinda laughed right here
Kinda laughed right here
2012-07-20 17:17:31
Do you really believe CS:GO's graphics are up to date? Did you ever played games like BF3?
Neither CSP's nor CS:GO's visuals can compete with modern games like BF3 and COD, but while CS:GO is trying to get into the same genre as COD, CSP is going in a completely different direction (no war simulation, clean looking maps,...).
CSP graphics are pretty decent for a free game and they're still trying to improve them.
Look at TF2: it looks like a cartoon but it got huge after Valve made it free to play.
Post edited 2012-07-20 17:28:23
Neither CSP's nor CS:GO's visuals can compete with modern games like BF3 and COD, but while CS:GO is trying to get into the same genre as COD, CSP is going in a completely different direction (no war simulation, clean looking maps,...).
CSP graphics are pretty decent for a free game and they're still trying to improve them.
Look at TF2: it looks like a cartoon but it got huge after Valve made it free to play.
Post edited 2012-07-20 17:28:23
2012-07-20 17:26:33
Not sure if TF2 has any professional scene though.
CS:GO graphics are not up to date but they're way better than the source one. Yes, I've played BF3 and the graphic's are better obviously, still CS:GO got the best one from the Cs series.
No, CS:GO is not CoD like, did you ever play it so far?!
CS:GO graphics are not up to date but they're way better than the source one. Yes, I've played BF3 and the graphic's are better obviously, still CS:GO got the best one from the Cs series.
No, CS:GO is not CoD like, did you ever play it so far?!
2012-07-20 17:41:20
I didn't say it's like COD. But they try to keep things close to reality, like most modern games (e.g COD) do.
TF2 got a competitive scene in the USA (it's an official ESEA game), but that wasn't my point anyway. My point was: Free games can get popular very fast. People think "uhm, it doesn't look that good but I'm bored and it's for free, so I will give it a try". And believe me: Playing CSP is awesome!
Post edited 2012-07-20 17:50:03
TF2 got a competitive scene in the USA (it's an official ESEA game), but that wasn't my point anyway. My point was: Free games can get popular very fast. People think "uhm, it doesn't look that good but I'm bored and it's for free, so I will give it a try". And believe me: Playing CSP is awesome!
Post edited 2012-07-20 17:50:03
2012-07-20 17:47:51
I played it myself and I know it's good but it's 1.6ish and that's old.
I don't see where they want to keep CS:GO reality like. It still has bunnyhopping and stuff.
You talk about wallbanging? Won't come back to new games anyways.
I don't see where they want to keep CS:GO reality like. It still has bunnyhopping and stuff.
You talk about wallbanging? Won't come back to new games anyways.
2012-07-20 17:49:55
The grenades size (small like in reality and therefor hard to spot in the air), the grenade physics, the movement (very sluggish, no air-acceloration), the gun-sounds (very high pitched what makes them hard to distinguish), the scope (blur effect and dirt on the glasses),... list goes on.
Bunnyhopping:
Where's the sense of multiple jumps in a row if there's almost no air-acceleration?
Fact is: The game-mechanics of CS:GO make kreezing impossible.
Post edited 2012-07-20 17:58:00
Bunnyhopping:
Where's the sense of multiple jumps in a row if there's almost no air-acceleration?
Fact is: The game-mechanics of CS:GO make kreezing impossible.
Post edited 2012-07-20 17:58:00
2012-07-20 17:57:15
Sorry for double-post.
Back to CSP's visual. Some guy made a map comparison:
http://tinyurl.com/cd8gs5f
CSP is a huge step forwards if you look at aztec. They made very nice custom textures for aztec and it looks fantastic. In future they will create custom textures for all maps. Also they're working on other visual improvements like color correction and new particle effects.
The funny thing is: There are already a lot of people asking for someone to port the CSP maps over to CS:GO because the CS:GO maps are terrible to play. If we're really at the point where we need custom maps because HPE's maps are too bad, then there's actually almost no visual improvement in CS:GO left.
And the best thing about CSP is: They coded it from scratch and it's possible to port it over to newer versions of the source engine (e.g the one CS:GO is using). If this game succeed, CS will have a bright future.
Post edited 2012-07-20 18:11:34
Back to CSP's visual. Some guy made a map comparison:
http://tinyurl.com/cd8gs5f
CSP is a huge step forwards if you look at aztec. They made very nice custom textures for aztec and it looks fantastic. In future they will create custom textures for all maps. Also they're working on other visual improvements like color correction and new particle effects.
The funny thing is: There are already a lot of people asking for someone to port the CSP maps over to CS:GO because the CS:GO maps are terrible to play. If we're really at the point where we need custom maps because HPE's maps are too bad, then there's actually almost no visual improvement in CS:GO left.
And the best thing about CSP is: They coded it from scratch and it's possible to port it over to newer versions of the source engine (e.g the one CS:GO is using). If this game succeed, CS will have a bright future.
Post edited 2012-07-20 18:11:34
2012-07-20 18:09:37
cspromod is built and rewritten from scratch from the source 2007 SDK and CS:GO is on source 2009 SDK (portal 2) and I don't see how cs:go's graphics is any better (maybe because i don't really care about grahpics, the only thing that will concern me about graphics is if it hurts my eyes while playing it).
People here maybe or maybe not be stubborn about leaving 1.6, but one thing is they exercise their right as a human being to do what they want and love and that's playing cs1.6 or a game similar to it. and cs:go isn't one of them.
and this debate is just like back in the past when source first came out and the majority of casual players/pros disliked it. everyone thought cs:s was going to take over, but in time the game just proved that it sucked itself. remember when 3D|moto said how source is bad? link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHAOf7ECAtE
people NEED to support csp FIRST because they do it for free and will listen to the community feedback and will change things for the community. when was the last time someone out there was going to make a game for you for free the way YOU want it????? take the opportunity to help. and if csp fails, cs:go will always be around because a gaming corporation invested $$$ in it. it's not going anywhere.
People here maybe or maybe not be stubborn about leaving 1.6, but one thing is they exercise their right as a human being to do what they want and love and that's playing cs1.6 or a game similar to it. and cs:go isn't one of them.
and this debate is just like back in the past when source first came out and the majority of casual players/pros disliked it. everyone thought cs:s was going to take over, but in time the game just proved that it sucked itself. remember when 3D|moto said how source is bad? link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHAOf7ECAtE
people NEED to support csp FIRST because they do it for free and will listen to the community feedback and will change things for the community. when was the last time someone out there was going to make a game for you for free the way YOU want it????? take the opportunity to help. and if csp fails, cs:go will always be around because a gaming corporation invested $$$ in it. it's not going anywhere.
2012-07-20 17:56:57
The problem is play CS:GO (or future FPSs) with Counter-Strike 1.6 vision. We need remove This glasses.
All game are differents.
About PROMOD. They had his chance to make a new revival in CS competitive scene years ago, but they failed with the delays and more delays until now.
Now they have a impossible situation with VALVE and CSGO. Promod will be now only a fun game (and good game,sure)
Post edited 2012-07-20 18:14:17
All game are differents.
About PROMOD. They had his chance to make a new revival in CS competitive scene years ago, but they failed with the delays and more delays until now.
Now they have a impossible situation with VALVE and CSGO. Promod will be now only a fun game (and good game,sure)
Post edited 2012-07-20 18:14:17
2012-07-20 18:09:43
this site is full of crazy people ...some people think CS was ever bigger than starcraft 2 (not even bigger than sc1 considering it was mainly a korean scene and still had bigger prizes and more events) ....i mean cmon ...i know we all love cs 1.6 ...but get real ....the second starcraft 2 appeared it already had a spot in the IEM and a bigger prize ....not to mention 20 times as much events
that, to me , means a bigger esport ...holding 6 events per years vs holding 20 events per year......and the winner is SC2 by a mile
if we ever want CS to come back huge like it was in 2005-2007 we need to attract the ENTIRE fps community
i mean taking SC2 as an example, literally NO rts game besides sc2 is getting featured in tournaments....that is what we need to replicate with a future CS game ...we need to have 1 shooter only in tournaments ...and get people to only want to play 1 shooter game ....
Post edited 2012-07-20 20:45:12
that, to me , means a bigger esport ...holding 6 events per years vs holding 20 events per year......and the winner is SC2 by a mile
if we ever want CS to come back huge like it was in 2005-2007 we need to attract the ENTIRE fps community
i mean taking SC2 as an example, literally NO rts game besides sc2 is getting featured in tournaments....that is what we need to replicate with a future CS game ...we need to have 1 shooter only in tournaments ...and get people to only want to play 1 shooter game ....
Post edited 2012-07-20 20:45:12
2012-07-20 20:43:38
Blizzard made sure of killing their other RTS to make Starcraft 2 popular, for example they dropped Warcraft III and Broodwar from the Blizzcon and then they paid KeSPA to drop Broodwar tournaments in korea.
2012-07-21 02:12:48
once again: who cares if sc2 is bigger than cs? cs 1.6 the way it is now isn't worth playing, but 2005-2011 (i can speak from experience for those years) was good - there was plenty of money to go around, no one is trying to become rich from playing.
2012-07-21 02:15:00
+1 I just can't believe people play a bad game just because they want to 'save CS'.. To be attached to a game just because it has a "Counter-Strike" in its name is just plain idiotic, especially if you disregard the quality of the game itself.
2012-10-11 21:05:12
CS 1.6 need a new version with the same gameplay but new graphic, to atract the new generation, exactly like DotA2 and SC2 which have the same feeling of the previous versions. CS:GO is a new version of CS Source which never was a esport like CS 1.6
cof*promod*cof
cof*promod*cof
2012-07-21 01:38:12
when cs;go will be for free?
2012-07-21 03:26:02
WHoever says source players are noobs that couldnt make it in 1.6 are just blinded idiot as everybody does play the same game at the same time meanign that you have to be just as better then the others then in 1.6 to win cups and prizes and that for ppl that bought the game 8 years ago (yea 8 FKN YEARS) like me when it just released to be on an edge compared to others and you guys just never wanted to switch because alot of players said hitboxes /sprays were off .... THATS BULLSHIT just get used to a game an d you can become a pro even if it is mario bros or cs cz it doesnt matter you guys just loved your game so mcuh that you never wanted to quit for a newer version and im fine with that but everybody starts with the same game and its only the kn owledge and skills that determines a good player not the fucking game their playing. k bye i wrote this quite fast so dont whine bout faults
2012-08-03 01:26:37
Just copy pasting a reply and adding one line to it;
This a very big difference though.
Changing from 1.5-1.6 was changing mechanics, this is literally changing into a completely different game.
People thought these same things about CS:Source, and it wasn't more true then.
The sponsors need to pick back up 1.6, or CS:GO will change the CS community like never before.
It will be a sad day to me (as someone who has played since beta v1.0) if 1.6 goes down and CS:GO truly becomes the new game. It will be a CoD-esque feel and saying the name "counter-strike" will just not have the same meaning it used to.
The game is in a terrible state and it's currently run by a company with an awful track-record as of late in terms of producing a quality game. When the concern is money, and not player enjoyment, there is nothing in it for everyone else. CS is already a game in it's final breaths, and a complete overhaul of the game to try and rake in some $$$ instead of trying to do something for the players is the last way to keep the game alive.
There is little chance of CS:GO being a game that even contends with 1.6, so outside of players who still have some sort of aspirations that they'll "make it big" with CS:GO - or players who will be sponsored and paid to play it, the falloff would be noticeable and the new players coming in would be the nail in the coffin on the CS we used to know.
This a very big difference though.
Changing from 1.5-1.6 was changing mechanics, this is literally changing into a completely different game.
People thought these same things about CS:Source, and it wasn't more true then.
The sponsors need to pick back up 1.6, or CS:GO will change the CS community like never before.
It will be a sad day to me (as someone who has played since beta v1.0) if 1.6 goes down and CS:GO truly becomes the new game. It will be a CoD-esque feel and saying the name "counter-strike" will just not have the same meaning it used to.
The game is in a terrible state and it's currently run by a company with an awful track-record as of late in terms of producing a quality game. When the concern is money, and not player enjoyment, there is nothing in it for everyone else. CS is already a game in it's final breaths, and a complete overhaul of the game to try and rake in some $$$ instead of trying to do something for the players is the last way to keep the game alive.
There is little chance of CS:GO being a game that even contends with 1.6, so outside of players who still have some sort of aspirations that they'll "make it big" with CS:GO - or players who will be sponsored and paid to play it, the falloff would be noticeable and the new players coming in would be the nail in the coffin on the CS we used to know.
2012-08-03 10:04:12
I can't believe you share the same view as me, lurppis!
2012-10-11 19:17:10
CSP is dead. Lurpiss is feeble, he is just giving empty and useless hope for CSP developers.
2012-10-11 19:29:26
Why do u think GO can't improve? IMO spraying is the only thing that truly differs GO from 1.6.
2012-10-11 21:11:38
If you enjoy GO as it is that's fine but saying spraying is the only thing that truly differs GO from 1.6 is just a false fact.
2012-10-11 21:14:03
I never said it is a fact, lol. From my point of view it is the only thing that makes this game "worse" than 1.6. Maps are the same, movement is almost the same, guns are even better, graphics is even better. I can't think of anything else which is worse. Could you do that, or even lurrpis, please?
Post edited 2012-10-11 21:23:24
Post edited 2012-10-11 21:23:24
2012-10-11 21:23:02
Maps have the same 'essence', but they are not the same, different angles, boxes, more boxes, more boxes and a few more boxes.
Movement is the same? Seriously? That's the part that's more affected in the whole game. You can't do any of the stuff that made cs awesome and unique such as russian walk or bhop.
Guns are better, in which way? The models? Graphically, yes, but who the hell cares about how many pixels the models have? If you're talking about new guns, it's just ridiculous.
Graphics are indeed better, a lot better actually, it's like comparing super mario to crysis. But the thing is, games with good graphics have been out for a long time... We stick to 1.6 that has AWFUL graphism simply because it's way more awesome.
Movement is the same? Seriously? That's the part that's more affected in the whole game. You can't do any of the stuff that made cs awesome and unique such as russian walk or bhop.
Guns are better, in which way? The models? Graphically, yes, but who the hell cares about how many pixels the models have? If you're talking about new guns, it's just ridiculous.
Graphics are indeed better, a lot better actually, it's like comparing super mario to crysis. But the thing is, games with good graphics have been out for a long time... We stick to 1.6 that has AWFUL graphism simply because it's way more awesome.
2012-10-11 21:32:17
Well maps can't be a problem, and even if they are to someone it is because that someone got used to 1.6 and can't accept changes. Furthermore, I said movement the "almost" the same. You can jump and strafe like you could in 1.6. Guns are graphically better for sure, but as I said before, spraying is the thing which should be fixed in order to get more attention from 1.6 players. Your last sentence... now you're just being subjective.
2012-10-11 21:37:56
How am I being subjective? How can you explain 50k people everyday play a 10 year old game? It's a mark in history and it's really, really hard to achieve.
2012-10-11 22:20:08
. We stick to 1.6 that has AWFUL graphism simply because it's way more awesome. Objectively said 1.6 is more awesome?
#106 Now you went too far. You misunderstood me, probably because of my attitude towards GO, I'm not saying 1.6 is better than GO I'm just saying GO doesn't differ too much from 1.6 and those few changes could be done.
#106 Now you went too far. You misunderstood me, probably because of my attitude towards GO, I'm not saying 1.6 is better than GO I'm just saying GO doesn't differ too much from 1.6 and those few changes could be done.
2012-10-11 23:29:14
hahahaha
2012-10-11 22:49:31
While I certainly appreciate lurppis' thoughts on CSP (I mean, look at my user name ffs), I'm just not seeing anything happen there. I downloaded and installed, and there was only one public server up (which I had about 250-300 ping on). I didn't even put any search restrictions in. If CSP's going to get big, all the people that say they love it so much had better start playing it...
In regards to his comments about his conflict between the love of the game and getting paid: I really feel for him. "Eating shit" is the phrase that comes to mind. While he doesn't like the game and would rather see CS 1.6 come back to life, his paycheck is on the line if GO doesn't succeed (don't give me that crap about eSports players finding "real jobs"; would you tell a pro footballer to find a "real job" after they retire?). It really sucks that he, along with many other 1.6 players who are apprehensive to switch, have a lot to lose should GO, the game they so despise, fail.
Concerning his comments on GO itself... I'm not sure whether I agree or not. While I do agree that it's far from ready for competitive play, it's a great casual game. I like to just hop into pubs from time to time and see what I can get done with my teammates. Then again, CS 1.6 still has a huge casual scene. I'm no good at 1.6 (and there's hardly any pro 1.6 scene left in the U.S. anyway), so it's nice that I can just hop on 1.6 whenever I want and I'm guaranteed to find a server. Don't get me wrong, I still play 1.6 a lot more than I play GO, I like 1.6 better, and I would like nothing better than for GO to fail and 1.6 to make a triumphant return. But if Valve actually makes good on their promise to listen to and work with pro players to make GO more eSports-friendly, I don't see why it couldn't be a suitable replacement for 1.6/Source.
In regards to his comments about his conflict between the love of the game and getting paid: I really feel for him. "Eating shit" is the phrase that comes to mind. While he doesn't like the game and would rather see CS 1.6 come back to life, his paycheck is on the line if GO doesn't succeed (don't give me that crap about eSports players finding "real jobs"; would you tell a pro footballer to find a "real job" after they retire?). It really sucks that he, along with many other 1.6 players who are apprehensive to switch, have a lot to lose should GO, the game they so despise, fail.
Concerning his comments on GO itself... I'm not sure whether I agree or not. While I do agree that it's far from ready for competitive play, it's a great casual game. I like to just hop into pubs from time to time and see what I can get done with my teammates. Then again, CS 1.6 still has a huge casual scene. I'm no good at 1.6 (and there's hardly any pro 1.6 scene left in the U.S. anyway), so it's nice that I can just hop on 1.6 whenever I want and I'm guaranteed to find a server. Don't get me wrong, I still play 1.6 a lot more than I play GO, I like 1.6 better, and I would like nothing better than for GO to fail and 1.6 to make a triumphant return. But if Valve actually makes good on their promise to listen to and work with pro players to make GO more eSports-friendly, I don't see why it couldn't be a suitable replacement for 1.6/Source.
2012-10-11 23:44:25
csp won't be big as it is, the project is working on some cool stuff and its future depends on how it all turns out. obviously tons of people won't simply start playing it out of the blue, it's up to them to make people interested in playing it -- which they aren't doing right now.
it's not like i make a ton of money from esports (or ever did; the only time i made a nice living was during the eg years as my salary was really low otherwise), if i get bored i will simply stop hanging around and that's it. i don't really care if go succeeds or not tbh, i'm sort of indifferent to it. for hltv.org's sake i hope it does though.
there's no reason why we would have to agree; some people like the game, some people don't. i don't personally enjoy playing it, so i don't -- problem solved.
it's not like i make a ton of money from esports (or ever did; the only time i made a nice living was during the eg years as my salary was really low otherwise), if i get bored i will simply stop hanging around and that's it. i don't really care if go succeeds or not tbh, i'm sort of indifferent to it. for hltv.org's sake i hope it does though.
there's no reason why we would have to agree; some people like the game, some people don't. i don't personally enjoy playing it, so i don't -- problem solved.
2012-10-11 23:56:25
Glad to hear you're able to find work if 1.6 dies out. I also agree with you about CSP; the only way I heard about it was through word-of-mouth. Hopefully this new development team will make more of an effort regarding PR.
2012-10-12 00:00:08
i'm in school, i never planned on making a "career" out of esports. i've been offered a few "legit" jobs in the industry but it's not honestly something i want to work with in the long term.
it's not really about the pr before a solid game is ready, but there's no point going more into it; it all depends on how things pan out in the coming months.
it's not really about the pr before a solid game is ready, but there's no point going more into it; it all depends on how things pan out in the coming months.
2012-10-12 00:05:50
I always thought you'd do well with a career in eSports after your gaming days are up, but hey, nothing beats a good education. And if you have faith in this new CSP dev team, so do I.
2012-10-12 00:13:12
i don't doubt that i could, but i've dealt with a LOT of people in esports and in general it's just a very underdeveloped industry still, and will be for a while, and it's just not something i want to work with tbh.
i have faith in csp still, i do know they're working on some cool stuff, but we'll see whether or not it ends up materializing.
i have faith in csp still, i do know they're working on some cool stuff, but we'll see whether or not it ends up materializing.
2012-10-12 00:15:50
Hmm I hope for csp too (like every real 1.6 player do). I'm goin to finish my study at university next year, so my gaming days are almost at the end. Anyway I know that I will watch some games or play mixes with friends, but in game that I like to.
I like that cool stuff in 1.6, but when I take a look on csgo, almost all stuff disappeared. (Like fast quakelike movement with no delays in switching sides, crouching, recoil - but with no random stuff, clear maps, that makes the game even faster, ballanced moneysystem and weapons like rifles, grenades and so on...)
It all depends on players I think. When I start to imagine ideal substitution for 1.6, I think that next "onepointsix" should have graphics like borderland series where you can still talk about "nice to look" and "clear maps". And it will be extremly important to drop these "wannabe realistic and easy to play" console trends. CSGO is maybe the worst CoD title ever made, its singleplayer game with black and white textures, fogs, shaky scopes, some black boarders around the screenview and so on. But maybe someone in development team forgot to add SP campagain, so maybe in next DLC.
I think that Source engine ist so good for esport fps title, but csp development team did a great job so far. I hope for it event I know, that I will not play it competitively.
If someone say, that csgo is the future of fps esport, then I have to say "RIP", I dont want to be a part of this...
I like that cool stuff in 1.6, but when I take a look on csgo, almost all stuff disappeared. (Like fast quakelike movement with no delays in switching sides, crouching, recoil - but with no random stuff, clear maps, that makes the game even faster, ballanced moneysystem and weapons like rifles, grenades and so on...)
It all depends on players I think. When I start to imagine ideal substitution for 1.6, I think that next "onepointsix" should have graphics like borderland series where you can still talk about "nice to look" and "clear maps". And it will be extremly important to drop these "wannabe realistic and easy to play" console trends. CSGO is maybe the worst CoD title ever made, its singleplayer game with black and white textures, fogs, shaky scopes, some black boarders around the screenview and so on. But maybe someone in development team forgot to add SP campagain, so maybe in next DLC.
I think that Source engine ist so good for esport fps title, but csp development team did a great job so far. I hope for it event I know, that I will not play it competitively.
If someone say, that csgo is the future of fps esport, then I have to say "RIP", I dont want to be a part of this...
2012-10-12 00:41:34
<3 you, you are very confident of what are you talking about and I like this, I like csgo but have to agree with you, keep it up mate
2012-10-12 00:04:37
Hey, lurppis is the man. Even if you don't like him, you have to at least appreciate his articulation and self-confidence.
2012-10-12 00:19:43
what? U definitely missunderstood my previous post
2012-10-12 00:25:03
Lol, I know you're paying him a compliment. I'm just saying that people who don't like him seem to misinterpret his confidence as an inflated ego.
2012-10-12 00:26:28
CSP is great game and could've made it to become the most popular fps game, but I think they made few mistakes.
First, even 1.6 is pretty awesome (this comes from source player), they shouldnt have made CSP exactly like it. This sucks for competitive play, because it gives far too big advantage to those who have played 1.6 for years, this makes saucers and new players less likely to move to CSP, because it's pretty fucking hard to get on top level of CSP because others have played the exact copy of the game for years, they know the maps like their own butt, know exactly ever angle on every map, know all flashes etc.
You might say that you dont need saucers and new players, but that exactly what csp would've needed to become as big as LoL, SC2 etc.
If they wouldve just copied recoil + movement + wallbanging, then made new maps, which would've been something between source and 1.6. Because IMO even most 1.6 maps are better than CSS, the CSS maps still got somethings which I consider better than 1.6 maps.
But copying every map 100%, flashbangs, smokes, EVERYTHING..
I can't see anyway how CSP comes the leading fps game anymore, because if CSGO flops, ppl will just keep playing 1.6.
Post edited 2012-10-13 08:16:16
First, even 1.6 is pretty awesome (this comes from source player), they shouldnt have made CSP exactly like it. This sucks for competitive play, because it gives far too big advantage to those who have played 1.6 for years, this makes saucers and new players less likely to move to CSP, because it's pretty fucking hard to get on top level of CSP because others have played the exact copy of the game for years, they know the maps like their own butt, know exactly ever angle on every map, know all flashes etc.
You might say that you dont need saucers and new players, but that exactly what csp would've needed to become as big as LoL, SC2 etc.
If they wouldve just copied recoil + movement + wallbanging, then made new maps, which would've been something between source and 1.6. Because IMO even most 1.6 maps are better than CSS, the CSS maps still got somethings which I consider better than 1.6 maps.
But copying every map 100%, flashbangs, smokes, EVERYTHING..
I can't see anyway how CSP comes the leading fps game anymore, because if CSGO flops, ppl will just keep playing 1.6.
Post edited 2012-10-13 08:16:16
2012-10-13 08:15:16
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