Neymar so overrated!!
Every match against good teams he failed,I watched the match yesterday and he played terrible like a retard
I think he is not more than a "youtube-star" with some skills against low opponents
(219 replies)
Created 2012-08-12 11:53 by: ZackR
His mates didn't help him, they fucked up a lot of chances, specially last one by oskar
2012-08-12 11:55:03
oscar*
2012-08-12 11:58:15
whatever :D
2012-08-12 12:13:11
oscar ? omg u kidding me ? oscar is the best in Brazil , Neymar is a sh1t , and the coach is a fcking idiot q.q , Brazil cant win nothingggggg more !!
2012-08-12 15:11:26
so oscar is better than neymar? ok
2012-08-12 18:05:32
You clearly know nothing about football.
2012-08-12 18:11:14
jajajajaj
2012-08-13 03:11:33
obvious colorado is obvious
2012-08-12 20:01:29
not im not , Sao Paulo <3 , and yeahhhh Oscar > Neymar !!!
2012-08-12 20:09:27
colorado or bambi doesn't matter, same theory.

oscar is an average midfield.
2012-08-12 20:15:00
bambi ? wow funnnny man !
2012-08-12 20:18:19
will see how he will play in barca
2012-08-12 19:45:52
Neymar only play in Santos and WHEN HE WANTS in brazilian national team. Trust me.
2012-08-21 21:18:20
Brazilian youngstars are always overrated. They are suitable for more than a few Nike commercials nothing else.
2012-08-12 11:58:11
ur teams seem to disagree considering the number of brazilians ukrainian teams buy every year..
2012-08-12 12:02:24
ty
2012-08-12 14:02:41
True.
2012-08-12 17:59:03
brazilian youngstars like ronaldinho, ronaldo, kaka sucks, they are so fucking overated, oh god whyyy
2012-08-12 18:06:27
ronaldinho is not overated now
2012-08-12 19:45:11
but by our ukraninan friend said, he was.. only with time on europe this 'overrated' players can prove themselves
2012-08-12 20:00:20
that's right , but will see him in barca in january and lucas in psg
2012-08-12 20:10:07
hopefully, this guys are too awesome to stay too long in campeonato brasileiro :)
2012-08-12 20:44:21
they have got the pace, they can make some damage
2012-08-12 22:15:10
ofc he's overrated, but only by the brazilians, they worship him beyond any logic... i truly hope no Europe team gives more than 30M€ for him..
2012-08-12 12:03:50
this guy said it all.
2012-08-12 13:20:20
negative. only the midia think he's a great player.
2012-08-12 15:34:35
and all brazillian
2012-08-12 16:43:31
and the zerg and protooss
2012-08-12 17:09:13
LOL
2012-08-12 18:05:58
+1 lol he is the god playing against low football teams, if he cames to europe he would suck hard is obvious
2012-08-12 18:26:46
Santos has had to sell him before 2 years,now no one gives offer more than as you say
2012-08-12 12:09:15
he's OK, oscar and hulk is overrated imo.
2012-08-12 12:11:47
hulk its super player
2012-08-12 12:51:50
+100000000
2012-08-12 12:54:03
+23=489t6j894236u2340=trfhq230t
2012-08-12 13:37:08
+427857185718957128976128961
2012-08-12 17:24:32
Hulk overrated? lululululululu
2012-08-12 12:53:13
maybe not.. but oscar is.
2012-08-12 13:45:13
dont say sh1t pls , Oscar is one of the best in Brazil !
2012-08-12 15:12:46
ur country dont have football
2012-08-12 16:44:06
LMAO!!
2012-08-12 17:51:23
thats cuz of this no sense comments that portugal is always flamed
go die far
2012-08-12 18:29:12
i don't speak with ppl who have -18 years old, thank you
2012-08-12 19:02:21
or mby ppl that have more head mentality u? go back to school
2012-08-12 19:38:29
i feel so bad for ur kid, when u get one ofc
2012-08-12 20:36:02
I don't give a damn? Grow up kid.
2012-08-12 18:54:02
who said that? "he's OK, oscar and hulk is overrated imo."
u dont know shit about football thats for sure
2012-08-12 19:01:12
and why do you care?
2012-08-12 19:03:24
How is Hulk overrated? o_O
2012-08-12 13:47:03
by: carr~
#9
we will see when he comes to spain or other europe league
2012-08-12 12:45:29
hes going to barcelona at 2014 :)
2012-08-12 12:52:16
by: jr[:
#14
if that's true, pepe will put him in a wheelchair xD
2012-08-12 12:55:27
:DDD i hate barcelona so aggre
2012-08-12 12:56:26
by: jr[:
#54
ahahah I hate them too :D
2012-08-12 15:31:36
No, hes not going to Barcelona in 2014, its only rumours. Vilanova said in a interview, that nobody from Barca have talked about Neymar yet and its all the journalists who made this history. :)
2012-08-12 16:38:58
Spain is not that good league. Only few top teams, others are really bad. So that's why most of the players that Barcelona or Real buy become "good", cuz they score against some really bad opposition. That's why Ronaldinho never went to England, and it's the reason why supermodel C.Ronaldo switched to Spain.
2012-08-12 13:51:07
I don't like Ronaldo, but he was sick in PL aswell.
2012-08-12 14:41:28
That's why he is the best player in the world
2012-08-12 16:20:52
You can like him or not, but facts say that in England he scored 84 goals in nearly 200 games, and in Spain he already scored 112 in 100 games. Silly
2012-08-12 19:40:25
and what role did he have in MU? MIDFIELDER. You must be stupid.
2012-08-12 20:20:06
LOL. He was midfielder and now he's striker? He was always winger and always will be...never defends, always stays upfront, even when his strikers are back.
2012-08-12 21:11:45
you cant really compare like that...he has become a lot better player overall, so thats really useless comparision. i do agree that in spain only real and barca are good while in england there are many more teams that can do dmg
2012-08-13 03:03:34
Of course he did improve, but hitting 2-3 goals every game against some Granada, Valladolid bla bla, all the time...really silly.
2012-08-13 10:40:30
well but real is (imo) much better than man utd, so its also easier to score if you are in a better team. i agree that most of the teams in spanish league are easy to score against compared to teams in pl. i actually agree with everything you said except i dont like the comparision, everyone who knows football knows that pl is way more competitive and better than spanish league
2012-08-13 21:22:42
I doubt that Real is better then ManUtd...now...yes, I agree, but when he played in ManUtd, Real couldn't pass the 1/8 final in Champions League for years.
2012-08-19 15:49:38
i mean real now and man utd when he played for them
2012-08-20 08:26:20
Real was still bad when he joined them, whole 1st season ;)
2012-08-21 00:29:13
true :P
2012-08-21 21:09:36
yeah right, you own :D
he was always offensive winger...messi is a forward right? :P
2012-08-13 21:24:18
His role in man utd wasn't purely to score goals like it is in rma.

Whatver you might call his different positions.
2012-08-13 21:41:42
wuuuuuuuuuuuuut. This guy will be unstoppable, just give him some time bro:D
2012-08-12 13:18:35
we hope so... recently he hasn't made a decent match against strong teams. He is in fact overrated, but he has potential to become a monster
2012-08-12 17:25:03
Anyone who says his better than messi should jump of a cliff. And Pele saying that Brazil will get gold easy in the Olympics just shows how overrated Brazilian players are
2012-08-12 13:27:21
I have not seen pele saying that Brazil would get easy gold in Olympics, I saw him saying he thinks that Brazil wins the cup in 2014
2012-08-12 13:52:28
i was talking about Olympics, witch they obviously lost
2012-08-12 16:26:23
Felipe Scolari (ex-chelsea coach)
"Pele knows nothing about soccer. He's done nothing as a coach and his analysis turns out to be always wrong. If you plan on winning a title, you do the opposite to what Pele says."
2012-08-12 17:05:54
Well his right
2012-08-12 18:05:11
agree. And they compare him with Messi LOL.
2012-08-12 13:27:35
That's alot coming from a spanish :D Spain didn't score a single goal in the games
2012-08-12 13:35:24
So...? I can use your same logic. See, Spain won 2 european titles and the world cup in 4 years. Can we talk now?

You know, you don't need to had a better performance to talk about someone. I can say Neymar is overrated because he didn't play outside Brazil and his performance in some great matches has been low, regardless Spain has scored any goal or not.
2012-08-12 14:12:46
+1
2012-08-12 17:28:37
win
2012-08-12 17:53:17
spain cant win 2 european titles and the world cup in 4 years since that would be 3 big titles in 4 years, but the big tournament comes once every 2 years :D
agree otherwise :p
2012-08-13 03:06:51
Well, Spain won their european titles in 2008 and 2012, world cup in 2010. How many years have passed since 2008 to today? XD
2012-08-13 10:08:13
2008,2009,2010,2011,2012
2012-08-13 18:24:53
haha well ok didnt think the same way you did :P
2012-08-13 21:17:45
I love it.. we won two Eurocups and a World Cup in 4 years moreless making the best football in the world and probably in the history and now you're saying this about the Games? The point is that in the games we played with all the substitutes less 3 or 4 players.

So please before you come here to rage about Spain focus in your team and tell me what did they do in Eurocup, World Cup and also this Games. Have a nice day.
2012-08-12 14:56:36
the world's best football yes, not of the story
2012-08-12 15:55:52
by: zzN
#67
"the best football in the world and probably in the history"
omfg kiddo , get a clue idiot , you're talking about spain not about brazil .


Spain 4th @Group D with Honduras - Japan - Marrocos , lmfao..
and u guys finnished last with 3 games - 2 defeats and 1 draw, how can u possibly say something about brazil? get real nerd.
2012-08-12 16:13:05
Mental note: You have to win at least 10 WC, 100 Copa America, 200 Eurocups and 50 Olympic Gold Medals to post an opinion.

Get real, nerd.
2012-08-12 16:41:19
by: zzN
#77
ok now say something that makes sense please?!
get more original, nerd.
2012-08-12 16:46:40
It's called sarcasm?

Get real, nerd.
2012-08-12 16:49:37
As I said before, you're looking on scores in this Olympic Games and I said that we played with all the substitutes less 3 or 4 players. Go to see the last Eurocup, World Cup and the other Eurocup and then say something about scores
2012-08-12 17:04:08
+1
2012-08-12 17:28:04
"we won" ? no, spanish team won. you werent part of it in any ways
2012-08-12 16:54:29
another finnish raging? nice
2012-08-12 17:02:09
+1
2012-08-12 17:28:11
+1
2012-08-12 17:28:24
the football of all times was brazil in 1982
2012-08-12 17:28:56
+2
2012-08-12 17:28:57
best football in history? HAHA, dude pleaseee! You have a great team but that's it, get your facts straight before saying every single thing that pops up in ya head.
2012-08-12 21:40:32
how about you come back when finland qualifies for either: a) the olympic football b) European Championships or c) world cup
2012-08-13 03:12:08
He's a fucking 2nd Ronaldo egoist.
2012-08-12 13:41:20
agree, he is weak fag
no chance for him at europe
he should stay in brazil and make some youtube highlights vs complete nonamers
2012-08-12 14:03:29
+1 lol
Neymar is a fake, media made him a superstar..
2012-08-12 18:16:48
Yeah, you judge him by Olympics? You judge him by national team? C.Ronaldo is also piece of shit while playing with Portugal national team.
2012-08-12 14:06:07
yeah we saw that in Euro 2012 and he´s already de third player with the most goals with national team of all time, just 3 goals behind eusebio.
2012-08-12 14:17:18
how many goals he scored for portugal in official matches?
2012-08-12 14:21:58
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristiano_Ronaldo

most of them
2012-08-12 14:40:37
we dont care if he is almost best scorer

we want to see him play great like he does at real

and not dive all the time and miss so many shots like he does in his national team.
2012-08-12 16:26:57
Isn't best scorer = play great?
2012-08-12 17:30:19
absolutly not

you can have a best scorer in a game that will get 15 passes to score but puts 2 in the net

thats why i mean this guy is ...

he is much better in his club

anyways i dont support divers. (its cheating).
2012-08-12 17:43:01
haha shao xD you fool :D
2012-08-12 17:49:05
you have to see Portugal just have cristiano ronaldo and nani, look at our strikers, Postiga, Hugo almeida, nelson oliveira... I prefer one leg of any argentine or brazilian striker than those 3 together.
2012-08-12 17:41:47
You had one new young player on right wing on euro 2012 for portugal what was his name again ?

he was good, he even made a goal that was important ??
2012-08-12 17:47:47
varela, he is good but not a godlike player and he has 27 years old

Post edited 2012-08-12 17:59:23
2012-08-12 17:58:08
haha 27 and played 9 matches oh snap xD

thats old yeah too bad for him


tough he was much younger hmm
2012-08-12 18:02:24
He plays in Brazil, where the competitive teams lacks. If we cannot judge him by the few matches he plays outside his country (Olympics), we cannot judge him in any situation (including brazilian league).

So, those guys who says he's one of the best players or whatever, they cannot say that neither xD.

2012-08-12 14:18:46
u joking?! or u are just stupid?
2012-08-12 14:47:59
I am not stupid. Neymar is only 20 years old. Big clubs already chasing him. Imagine when he starts to play in Europe. Then all of you will be his cocksuckers when he is topscorer in Liga or EPL...
2012-08-12 14:52:10
that wasnt the part i was talking about..
2012-08-12 15:21:33
If he comes to Europe and perform as one of the best, beef top scorer, etc... I'll praise him, because he would show that he is one of the best.

But atm, people is just overrating him. Thats a fact.
2012-08-12 15:23:38
by: jr[:
#55
u sir, are a dumb ass.
2012-08-12 15:33:59
Agree. Same goes to Messi.
2012-08-12 18:01:07
But pressure +1000 compared to Neymar & co.
2012-08-12 21:42:59
And...? He is capable of suffering such a pressure, he is 3 times best in the world.
2012-08-12 22:00:31
? Yeah in barça pal.. He has a lot of pressure in Argentina.
2012-08-13 00:35:56
9 goals in 5 games since Sabella took over and made him captain. He sure is shit for his national team.
2012-08-12 21:45:03
Still nothing against good teams, Neymar also scored some goals against shit teams for Brazil, he did a grear match vs Brazil sometime ago but we our 2 defenders on that match are worse than a shit.
2012-08-12 22:02:51
Ofc he's overrated, but he's not the only one
The media talk about him like a star, because he is brazilian. That's it.
He would be Chinese Ukrainian Ivorian or Finnish, he would be an unknown. It's quite a business
2012-08-12 14:07:33
if he would be finnish he would be next pukki <3
2012-08-12 14:15:49
How can brazilians overrated so much neymar and underrated Hulk
2012-08-12 14:18:38
Neymar can play like a star only in Brazil!
2012-08-12 14:41:24
Exactly.

He only plays good if give him space to play. If the mark become tight, he can't do any good. That's why he owns here in Brazil. Br team's mark is not that good, so he has enough space to do whatever he wants.

But in europe... he'll suffer.
2012-08-12 16:02:08
Neymar = Justin Bieber of football
2012-08-12 14:49:34
AHUAHUAHUAHUAHUAHUAHUA. Christiano Ronaldo - Selena Gomez of football
2012-08-12 14:51:04
xDD
2012-08-12 14:52:18
Barcellona = One Direction of fotball
2012-08-12 17:31:14
Real Madrid = Pussycatdolls of football
2012-08-12 18:29:45
Pussycatdolls disbanded.

Better say Scrissor Sisters (seach them)
2012-08-12 18:37:07
:DD
2012-08-12 20:37:49
kkk'
2012-08-12 19:56:56
+1
2012-08-12 15:35:23
true
2012-08-12 14:52:10
future neymar > messi
2012-08-12 14:59:55
hahaha nice joke !
Messi > Pele > Maradona !
2012-08-12 15:13:54
omfg
2012-08-12 15:35:46
Seriously, shut the fuck up... Thanks
2012-08-12 18:01:53
mth back to teamplay pls :) , q.q go create idiots topics in teamplay pls, like "atx nao joga nada meu deus" , idiot n.n
2012-08-12 19:40:32
Never created such a thread, it's been a long time since I don't even post there (like 1 year at least)
2012-08-12 19:48:52
GAYUCHO DETECTED !
2012-08-12 19:57:30
:O , pls dont tell my secret , hahahahahaahahhaaahhaha !
2012-08-12 20:04:16
You really trolls hltv.org > futbol
2012-08-13 03:13:48
messi > pele HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA u so damn funny
2012-08-13 03:38:46
I dont know much football but after what I hv noticed in few yrs of football is that Neymar has got a lot to catch up till he can b compared to MesssssI.
2012-08-12 15:25:22
Neymar sux
2012-08-12 15:34:55
manne
2012-08-12 15:45:20
Neymar is onliner :D
2012-08-12 15:48:16
Brazilian players are thinking in the "balada". (club,grils,gays,beer,money.....)









NO MORE.
2012-08-12 15:54:39
+1
2012-08-12 16:02:55
1) Club
2) Grils (?)
3) Gays (??????????????????????)
4) Beer (Not compatible with number 3)
5) Money


(????)



?

Post edited 2012-08-12 16:44:05
2012-08-12 16:43:50
Neymar has only 20 years old guys, take it easy. He has so much to evolve yet.

Post edited 2012-08-12 16:03:33
2012-08-12 16:03:21
Messi was playing a WC at the age of 19. And won the olympics by himself. It's not a matter of age.
2012-08-12 16:46:47
Messi played a WC at 19 and??? He didn't anything special there...
2012-08-12 18:02:49
Do you know you gotta read the whole sentence? Read after the . (?
Plus, not liek Messi had a lot of time to play in 2006 WC.

Post edited 2012-08-12 21:45:00
2012-08-12 21:44:47
He scored 1 goal in the only match he played. He was there, in Germany. He was part of a team, a very good one. He might not win WC by himself, but he was there, and he did his best.

I don't recall seeing Neymar being at least a ball boy in Germany, nor in South Africa. That's the difference.

Please, it's not a matter of age.
2012-08-14 01:47:42
you must know that messi is over-druged ? =)
2012-08-13 00:48:48
I've try to do all his stuff in the field we always rent with my friends. It's impossible. :D
2012-08-14 01:43:34
we'll see if he plays in Barcelona what his real potential is
2012-08-12 16:44:10
Barca has better players than Neymar. He'd live in the bench forever. He needs another team being that the case.
2012-08-12 16:48:54
Neymar is a good player, but what I hate about this superstars is that no matter how bad they play, coaches never change them
2012-08-12 17:07:39
coach doesnt wants to get fired right ?
2012-08-12 17:54:50
he overrated just like mibr
2012-08-12 17:10:38
Country???
2012-08-12 17:27:54
I just hope he doesn't move to Barcelona, as he totally does not fit in their play style at all.
2012-08-12 17:20:41
i honestly think the only club he can play in Europe is Barcelona
2012-08-12 17:44:33
I think he would fit in teams like Milan, Real and PSG.. but as an average player, not a monster like he is here in Santos..
2012-08-12 18:18:52
You should judge CR7 and Messi playing for their national teams too. Neymar is a great player but with Mano Menezes as coach, he'll never play there how he plays at Santos.

Post edited 2012-08-12 18:06:46
2012-08-12 18:04:26
dasdasdadsadad

Post edited 2012-08-12 18:31:15
2012-08-12 18:31:06
Lucas Moura has more skills than neymar :)
2012-08-12 18:35:27
Not really, lol. Lucas is a good player ofc but he is miles away from Neymar.
2012-08-12 18:50:47
+1
2012-08-12 19:58:52
Neymar sux!

Post edited 2012-08-12 20:18:16
2012-08-12 20:17:39
I don't know why some people compares this guy called Neymar with the king Messi.
2012-08-12 21:20:58
stfu, king, --> Lions in Africa.
Messi is a big walking hormone who became best player in the world, just that.
2012-08-13 12:06:31
In Brazil, people tend to hate who is on top. Most of brazilians hate Neymar because he is rich, he fucks a lot of hot girls, he appears on TV everytime etc... People here dislike Phelps, Bolt, because they're the best, so I'm not surprised most of brazilians dislike Neymar.
2012-08-12 21:27:46
Shit way of thinking :/
2012-08-12 22:44:23
Sadly that's how 90% of brazilians think.
2012-08-12 22:49:42
not really :/
2012-08-13 02:16:05
Is he overrated? Sure.
Can he become one of the best players in the world? Sure.

He needs to move to europe ASAP, drop his superstar attitude and start improving his game. If he works hard and comes to a team where he isn't the main star and has good coaches who know how to mold him into a modern player that fits the european football I think he could become great after only a year or two in europe.
2012-08-12 21:50:14
You guys are really funny...

Wait untill he moves to Europe to see if he will prove himself.

Ronaldinho was owning everybody in Brazil, just like Neymar, but he NEVER proved himself in our national team. Ronaldinho played 5 really good matches for Brazil in his whole career.

Then he moved to PSG and barcelona, with a lot of people doubting about him and... Some spanish guys consider him the best player ever...

Its the same fucking boring story everytime one Brazilian Newgen appears, but nobody can tells he's or not overrated, WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE!

2012-08-13 01:27:22
+1
2012-08-13 01:40:12
Robinho. A star, one of the best in the world, etc.

He came to Madrid and....

Neymar will be similar case.
2012-08-13 12:04:44
Thanks, you just add one more point to my theory.

NOBODY CAN SAY IF ONE PLAYER WILL BECOME A STAR, OR A FAIL, WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE.

Its ridiculous what youre doing, saying he will fail just because you think he will fail...
2012-08-13 12:12:28
It's not only me, it's 95% of the poeple from the planet Earth.
And yes, maybe he won't fail, but as now we see, he is very far to be a top player, like messi, cr7, xavi, iniesta, benzema, etc, etc... he is just a good young brazilian player.
2012-08-13 12:19:35
no, it's ridiculous that brazilian guys say he's one of the best players in the world while he didnt show anything yet. every match against a semi-decent team he chokes and plays really bad. the way he played again mexico, I don't think any european team is waiting for him. it would be too much of a gamble.
2012-08-13 13:39:09
Seriously, I LOVE Robinho, he's the reason why I watch and follow football and honestly, Neymar is like 10000000x better than him.
2012-08-13 17:52:22
Lucas Moura need to play in first 11 ;]
I can't believe coach sent him in game in 80 minute ..
And last chance by Oscar was really good but Mexico was better team in this final ;]
I hope that Brazil will take Olympic Games once ..
This is great generation and i still can't believe they lost ..
2012-08-13 01:32:44
Our coach is a fucking moron.
2012-08-13 01:40:30
Neymar sux
Lucas sux
Brazil sux
yeahhh that's it...
spain >> world
2012-08-13 03:13:59
most of you guys are the couchy whiners who know nothing about football, just watch big games. who cares if hes not in shape in the last year or whatever. from his actions you can see that he has the potential to be a great striker. what do you say about rafael? hes playing for man utd and for me he was playing extremely bad in the finals. so why would man utd want to buy him? well obviously cuz they think he has the potential to become a great player (hes already but still needs to improve). you guys think that players just turn to pros over night or what? you listen too much to the media. messi was great at beginning but now hes excellent. go ahead and find a striker who has more potential than neymar (im sure there are some, but you see, its hard to find it). now i let you sit back on your couch and be smart again
2012-08-13 03:16:14
+1
2012-08-13 11:53:21
neymar go to europe and get big kick in ass!
2012-08-13 10:23:38
GEYMAR!
2012-08-13 10:33:21
I really think he is good, he is, but not that much as media say. He is a good young player, but he is very very very far to be one in the best players in the world. And we have to add that he plays in Brazil, where the football level league is low compared to top european leagues.

The only think I know is that Neymar will go to Barcelona, not only me, but people who live in Spain know it. Everything is already known. Also Alves always tells him to come.

Btw, f*** Barcelona.
2012-08-13 12:02:14
Brasil league is low? hahaha

Best league!!!
2012-08-13 22:57:47
-.-
2012-08-14 00:40:32
it isnt. and yes the brazilian football is largely lower than the eurpean football man
2012-08-14 02:14:57
You want to mean brazilian championships I think. Talking about skill brazilian football >>>>> world
2012-08-21 21:47:31
yes. I saw something in 2010, waiting for 2014 to know if ure true :p
2012-08-21 22:01:22
by: jz-
#208
neymar so peida na tanga...
2012-08-14 02:16:19
"peida na tanga" hahaha ,please translate it if you don't mind.
2012-08-19 16:49:46
retardad comment. nonsense
2012-08-21 00:43:00
Neymar Funny new celebration :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14kfz6wgA-U
2012-08-17 16:56:57
Ai se eu te pego! :@
2012-08-21 00:53:54
i heard neymar also switching to GO :s
2012-08-17 17:01:54

Login or register to add your comment to the discussion.