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Minorities in Pakistan
Rinkal Kumari was abducted on 24th Feburary 2012 from Mirpur Mathelo, Sindh at gun point by the people belonging to Mian Mitthu, MLA from ruling party PPP. She was then threatened to change her religion and converted to Islam where as her family was pressurized not to file any case. She was not only forced to change her religion against her will but her marriage took place against her will as well. She was produced in the lower court under the strict surveillance of armed men from Mian Mitthu and later appeared in the press conference saying that she wants to live with her so called husband Naveed Shah.
The SC court of pakistan even ruled in mian mithus favor. Even when the girl said she wanted to go with her parents in SC they sent her to a remand room where she was again tortured and forced to change her statement. The MLA Mian Mithu even warned that he would set Mirpur Mathelo ablaze and kill hindus if Rinkle Kumari's custody were to be taken away from him, in defiance of the President's statement and of civil society activists.
Hundreds of hindu/sikh girls get abducted every month and they are sold off to muslim men. Most of these girls are aged b/w 12-16. Guess what local politicians are the abducters and sellers of these girls. Most of these girls end up in brothels or dead after being raped and tortured. Pakistani government, police and even judiciary support such kind of activities so you can imagine what dharmic minorities in Pakistan must be facing.
Why these people need help?
India was divided on religious line in after independence. Hindu majority areas were given to India and Muslim majority to Pakistan. Remember Sindh at that time had a Hindu majority that should make us wonder why was it given to Pakistan. Hindu/Sikh men are being kidnapped and killed in broad daylight while the women are abducted, raped and forcefully converted with blessings of police,judiciary and government. Just after partition minority population was more than 30% in Pakistan of these Hindus were 24%.
Now Hindu and Sikhs are less than 2% combined. This means a mass genocide has been conducted over the years which has been ignored by even the international media.
Compare Pakistan with India, India had less than 10% muslims after partition, now official estimates say we have 15% muslims but the real figures would be 25% without accounting the bangladeshi immigrants. If India can allow 50 million plus bangladeshi muslims to stay illegaly in India without any difficulty why cant they offer asylum to Pakistani Hindu/Sikhs and rehabilitate them. Even Burmese muslims are entering and staying illegaly in India.There are only few lakhs sikhs and hindus left in Pakistan. Where will these people go?
I urge all of you to watch videos/news on plight of Pakistani Hindu/Sikhs on internet. These videos will have a great effect on you.
My purpose of posting this topic is make more people aware of this genocide and get the attention of international media.
No religion bashing ! Hope mods dont delete this thread.
The SC court of pakistan even ruled in mian mithus favor. Even when the girl said she wanted to go with her parents in SC they sent her to a remand room where she was again tortured and forced to change her statement. The MLA Mian Mithu even warned that he would set Mirpur Mathelo ablaze and kill hindus if Rinkle Kumari's custody were to be taken away from him, in defiance of the President's statement and of civil society activists.
Hundreds of hindu/sikh girls get abducted every month and they are sold off to muslim men. Most of these girls are aged b/w 12-16. Guess what local politicians are the abducters and sellers of these girls. Most of these girls end up in brothels or dead after being raped and tortured. Pakistani government, police and even judiciary support such kind of activities so you can imagine what dharmic minorities in Pakistan must be facing.
Why these people need help?
India was divided on religious line in after independence. Hindu majority areas were given to India and Muslim majority to Pakistan. Remember Sindh at that time had a Hindu majority that should make us wonder why was it given to Pakistan. Hindu/Sikh men are being kidnapped and killed in broad daylight while the women are abducted, raped and forcefully converted with blessings of police,judiciary and government. Just after partition minority population was more than 30% in Pakistan of these Hindus were 24%.
Now Hindu and Sikhs are less than 2% combined. This means a mass genocide has been conducted over the years which has been ignored by even the international media.
Compare Pakistan with India, India had less than 10% muslims after partition, now official estimates say we have 15% muslims but the real figures would be 25% without accounting the bangladeshi immigrants. If India can allow 50 million plus bangladeshi muslims to stay illegaly in India without any difficulty why cant they offer asylum to Pakistani Hindu/Sikhs and rehabilitate them. Even Burmese muslims are entering and staying illegaly in India.There are only few lakhs sikhs and hindus left in Pakistan. Where will these people go?
I urge all of you to watch videos/news on plight of Pakistani Hindu/Sikhs on internet. These videos will have a great effect on you.
My purpose of posting this topic is make more people aware of this genocide and get the attention of international media.
No religion bashing ! Hope mods dont delete this thread.
I'm agnostic and it feels stupid that poeple are being killed over religion, or should I say power and greed? ;)
2012-08-16 13:35:01
Agreed. But voiceless people should be allowed to killed by their oppresors just like that?
2012-08-16 13:49:14
Uhm no, there are other things happening too right now, like christians being killed by islam extremists in egypt for example.
but that's not really being exposed either, except in the arab media, but just a tiny bit.
also I never said any form of murder should be allowed, I just find it stupid, religion is just the scapegoat for the whole situation probably.
Post edited 2012-08-16 14:26:03
but that's not really being exposed either, except in the arab media, but just a tiny bit.
also I never said any form of murder should be allowed, I just find it stupid, religion is just the scapegoat for the whole situation probably.
Post edited 2012-08-16 14:26:03
2012-08-16 14:23:42
religion should be abolished..many casualties have been stemmed from
these ethnic shit so far.
no fuckin religion ,
inter-nation judicature should be strongly enforced to gun down such people who are concerned in such genocide and blood-shed.
these ethnic shit so far.
no fuckin religion ,
inter-nation judicature should be strongly enforced to gun down such people who are concerned in such genocide and blood-shed.
2012-08-17 16:42:23
I don't think religion should be removed, or abolished.
To be honest, it should remain as it is, it's all based around opinions really and none of us really know whether there is a god or not and which religion is the most accurate or if any of them actually is accurate to begin with.
Just to add a few things like .. Well.
Poeple who praise a religion are sometimes very dependant on it and put in alot of time and effort, pray every night, etc.
It gives some poeple hope, is my point, and if it helps you with your life then that's GREAT. But it dosen't help me with mine. I have a christian background but I decided to stop following my religion and I read up some facts, christianity didn't fit me so I left it.
:)
TL;DR if religion helps poeple it shouldn't be outlawed or looked down on, and the reason of war is power and greed.
Post edited 2012-08-18 11:20:10
To be honest, it should remain as it is, it's all based around opinions really and none of us really know whether there is a god or not and which religion is the most accurate or if any of them actually is accurate to begin with.
Just to add a few things like .. Well.
Poeple who praise a religion are sometimes very dependant on it and put in alot of time and effort, pray every night, etc.
It gives some poeple hope, is my point, and if it helps you with your life then that's GREAT. But it dosen't help me with mine. I have a christian background but I decided to stop following my religion and I read up some facts, christianity didn't fit me so I left it.
:)
TL;DR if religion helps poeple it shouldn't be outlawed or looked down on, and the reason of war is power and greed.
Post edited 2012-08-18 11:20:10
2012-08-18 11:19:23
indienineal what religion do u believ in tribe? :)
2012-08-18 11:46:12
you get me little wrong. Actually I don't have any problem with religion, but seemingly other people have ,who fight in the name of religion. My provision of abolishing it was just based on the fact of wiping these fringes among the people off the face of earth and let them realize that they all are equal.
I understand your point but truth is you can't make it understand all the peoples. So technically its effective to remove religious boundaries to curb these disputes.
please check it out, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAHPsyWOBkY
I understand your point but truth is you can't make it understand all the peoples. So technically its effective to remove religious boundaries to curb these disputes.
please check it out, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAHPsyWOBkY
2012-08-18 11:57:33
Not to be disrespectful but that video is fucking HILARIOUS.
however.
Poeple don't fight in the name of religion, that's an illusion for them and a scapegoat for the poeple who are leading the army, the reason to fight is not religion, it's power and greed.
There is honestly no other reason.
If you think religion is the reason I think you're very closeminded and ignorant, i'm sorry.
Post edited 2012-08-18 12:09:52
however.
Poeple don't fight in the name of religion, that's an illusion for them and a scapegoat for the poeple who are leading the army, the reason to fight is not religion, it's power and greed.
There is honestly no other reason.
If you think religion is the reason I think you're very closeminded and ignorant, i'm sorry.
Post edited 2012-08-18 12:09:52
2012-08-18 12:09:45
ok ..
yeah it was hilarious. I was laughing too.
i am repeating my words again that i am not against religion. but i believe in science rather religion and ergo believe on effective and practical method of limiting these fighting.
yeah it was hilarious. I was laughing too.
i am repeating my words again that i am not against religion. but i believe in science rather religion and ergo believe on effective and practical method of limiting these fighting.
2012-08-18 12:21:30
Crazy people will do crazy things, whether religion is involved or not :P
2012-08-20 10:21:48
Thanks for the concern but all kind of people dwell on this world doesn't mean their can't be any alternative. Its inevitably unfetchable to preclude some crazy people form fighting and snowballing it to wide large. Fighting on some crazy shit is despicable in this new era of time. My pursuance is only pertaining to any prudent measure to keep such menace at bay. So that the people do not get disoriented merely on naught.
please do proffer your suggestion if.
please do proffer your suggestion if.
2012-08-20 15:24:04
I do somewhat agree with you, the misinterpretation of religion is the main cause for a lot of this stuff, but as ine9 mentioned, it gives a lot of people a purpose to their life, and banning religion as a whole would probably end up doing more bad than good :P
2012-08-20 15:39:55
Are you theist or atheist or agnostic ???
2012-08-20 15:46:51
athiest
2012-08-20 15:49:30
oh my god..
why is it every people disagreeing with me these day. Its very ironic that buck of them are agnostic or atheist who are defending religion.
why is it every people disagreeing with me these day. Its very ironic that buck of them are agnostic or atheist who are defending religion.
2012-08-20 16:05:50
i think agnostic and atheist people seems to have more fervent believe in religion.
2012-08-20 16:07:54
you're agnostic . ??
shouldn't you say that "it feels stupid that poeple are being killed over religion" SOME OF THE TIME, BUT NOT ALWAYS, I'M NOT SURE.
you're theist or an atheist ... MAKE YOUR MIND UP
shouldn't you say that "it feels stupid that poeple are being killed over religion" SOME OF THE TIME, BUT NOT ALWAYS, I'M NOT SURE.
you're theist or an atheist ... MAKE YOUR MIND UP
2012-08-16 14:04:17
no I consider myself agnostic.
also no cpu, poeple are being killed for cash and power.
what do you think I am, retarded?
Post edited 2012-08-16 14:25:51
also no cpu, poeple are being killed for cash and power.
what do you think I am, retarded?
Post edited 2012-08-16 14:25:51
2012-08-16 14:23:07
being agnostic is pathetic and weak . ... make up ur mind, boy . !!
2012-08-16 14:41:46
mens u r waek omgz i cnt blive u writ smth lyk dis.
Post edited 2012-08-16 15:42:41
Post edited 2012-08-16 15:42:41
2012-08-16 15:39:18
i don't u spastic . ....
nice argument there completely avoiding what i said .. noob
nice argument there completely avoiding what i said .. noob
2012-08-16 16:25:35
you dutch-bag ..
only nitpicking and whipping it into fuss without any reasonable account ..
don't jump on mere squat.
only nitpicking and whipping it into fuss without any reasonable account ..
don't jump on mere squat.
2012-08-17 17:05:15
relax hahahah we are just having laughs, he's acting like a downy on purpose.
Post edited 2012-08-18 10:54:33
Post edited 2012-08-18 10:54:33
2012-08-18 10:54:26
hahahaha.......ok
he was acting like a dick.
These people always bragging about English language and try to nitpick mistake of others even when they catch the drift.
Fucking irks me.
Post edited 2012-08-18 11:01:17
he was acting like a dick.
These people always bragging about English language and try to nitpick mistake of others even when they catch the drift.
Fucking irks me.
Post edited 2012-08-18 11:01:17
2012-08-18 11:00:24
Most of the people getting killed are due to religious issues. Few religions badmouth infidels doesnt mean every religion needs to be blamed.
2012-08-16 14:24:23
Gnosticism is about knowledge.
You can be theist/atheist and at the same time agnostic (or gnostic)
Learn before you speak.
You can be theist/atheist and at the same time agnostic (or gnostic)
Learn before you speak.
2012-08-16 19:01:05
+1
2012-08-17 17:10:24
Any non-muslim in an islamic state is given the status of "Dhimmi".
So these persecutions are obvious in any islamic country.
So these persecutions are obvious in any islamic country.
2012-08-16 14:23:40
UAE is different! After 1992 riots pakistani muslims wanted to harm Hindus in emirated but the king gave us all the protection and warned pakistanis.
Shouldnt we do some thing to help these few millions of minority left in pakistan?
Shouldnt we do some thing to help these few millions of minority left in pakistan?
2012-08-16 14:26:44
Then UAE is a good country unlike Saudi Arabia.
What can we do to protect these minorities in Pakistan, when north-eastern Hindus in India are being threatened to leave the cities of Bangalore, Mumbai, Pune? 10,000 north-eastern Hindus have fled these cities in the last 2 days. Muslims are trying to take our country away from us. In India there will be a civil war by 2030, I can guarantee that!
What can we do to protect these minorities in Pakistan, when north-eastern Hindus in India are being threatened to leave the cities of Bangalore, Mumbai, Pune? 10,000 north-eastern Hindus have fled these cities in the last 2 days. Muslims are trying to take our country away from us. In India there will be a civil war by 2030, I can guarantee that!
2012-08-16 14:35:17
We should obviously help them. If more people know of their plight better it is for them. We cant just turn a blind-eye and accept fate.
2012-08-16 14:44:03
The only solution could be India giving asylum to all Pakistani Hindus and Sikhs, and throw out all Bangladeshis out of India.
2012-08-16 14:48:09
+1
2012-08-16 18:48:47
+1
yeah, the hindu of pak should be given custody of india. But the bangladeshis too should be given asylum but on condition of forfeiting some of their rights.
yeah, the hindu of pak should be given custody of india. But the bangladeshis too should be given asylum but on condition of forfeiting some of their rights.
2012-08-17 17:27:53
Yea, and lets beat chinese population. WOOOHOOOO
2012-08-18 12:08:45
hahhhahhaahahhahahahahahah
loled to much
Are you fake-flagging
loled to much
Are you fake-flagging
2012-08-18 12:23:37
No one support south africa on HLTV so i'm taking the pace 8)
2012-08-18 12:24:48
backchod londe
i gonna change mine too.
i gonna change mine too.
2012-08-18 12:28:49
The status of what ?
2012-08-16 17:24:27
Dhimmi means 2nd class citizens. All non-muslims will have to pay a tax just for not being a muslim, the tax is called "jaziya"
2012-08-16 20:45:38
Don't know about other countries, but in all North african arabian countries, this doesn't exist.
2012-08-16 22:10:32
In many muslim majority countries this Dhimmi thing is not followed, but wherever there is Sharia Law, Dhimmi status is must for non-muslims.
I think all muslim countries should strive to become like Turkey. Turkey is a muslim majority country, but still its secular, there women are not oppressed, and non-muslims are not persecuted.
I think all muslim countries should strive to become like Turkey. Turkey is a muslim majority country, but still its secular, there women are not oppressed, and non-muslims are not persecuted.
2012-08-17 10:32:24
Dude, i'm telling you, here in morocco, we believe that anyone has the right to believe what they want, but the only thing is that, we do not allow gay people, even if there are a lot of them, and in ramadan, eating in public in against the law, so if you're not a muslim, you'll be treated just like everyone. And most north african muslim countries have the same thing, it's somehow like turkey tbh
2012-08-17 18:12:41
Whats the use of posting this here man ?? Enjoy living in UAE cuz no ones gonna help you.
Post edited 2012-08-16 14:49:38
Post edited 2012-08-16 14:49:38
2012-08-16 14:48:27
Hmm can you explain what he's trying to say here? I don't really catch the Pakistan/India conflict. Are you guys still at war?
2012-08-16 14:51:55
Not at war! But Pakistanis killing and raping minorities in their country.
2012-08-16 14:54:48
Dude I don't wanna be biased here, let's hear their side of the story okay? It's not like India is free from any problems too..
2012-08-16 14:58:30
Its some Pakistani Human Rights organization and the Pakistani media who have brought forward these issues. Their statistics say that every month 25 Hindu girls are forcibly converted to Islam. In the Census of Pakistan 1951, Pakistan's Hindu population was 21%, in the 1991 Census it was below 2%. Can you imagine what had happened to those Hindus?
2012-08-16 20:50:17
the sad fact is you didn't really catch the problem. In india Muslim peoples are not discriminated. They are free of their will. No additional taxes are hassled over them, infact they are given addition minority quota (education, etc) for their development and foreseeable future. Their population ain't abating rather they are flourishing here.
If we want to retaliate we could have also abducted, raped and persecuted Muslim very easily as we are in majority here in india, but we don't. The riot and blood-shed and other problems occuring in india between hindu muslim is facted on religion dispute but not on their segregation like in pakistan.
If we want to retaliate we could have also abducted, raped and persecuted Muslim very easily as we are in majority here in india, but we don't. The riot and blood-shed and other problems occuring in india between hindu muslim is facted on religion dispute but not on their segregation like in pakistan.
2012-08-17 18:27:15
you want me to give you stats about hindus killing muslims ? indian army killing innocent kashmir's ? apart from this israel army killing Palestine people ? it happens in every country , every country have racist people . its just not in PAKISTAN , why everyone create such a hype about PAKISTAN ?
2012-08-19 15:11:58
Its just a chain man, Indian muslims kill Hindus resulting hindus kills muslims and visa versa. In 2002 Gujarat riots, a bunch of muslims guys exploded a train which was carrying a boggy full of hindus resulting other hindus got mad and killed many innocent muslims :/ Its so bad, we are surrounded with such retarded people.
Edit: Recent stats of such massacres in India would be appreciated :s I know such incidents happened earlier but that was like 10-12 years ago. Our Government is taking care of such incidents.
Post edited 2012-08-19 15:31:21
Edit: Recent stats of such massacres in India would be appreciated :s I know such incidents happened earlier but that was like 10-12 years ago. Our Government is taking care of such incidents.
Post edited 2012-08-19 15:31:21
2012-08-19 15:29:16
i know that, neither i said anything about recent years.. its just India is now economically stable were as in Pakistan we used to be stable but not anymore, everyday people getting fired , industries closing and so on.. once the economic gets stable there will be a big change ..
2012-08-19 15:45:36
There's no war anymore. Pakistan can't stand the might of India's military. So now they are sending terrorists to kill our women and children. I hope you have heard about the November, 2008 Mumbai attacks.
2012-08-16 21:07:33
right, that's why your media is always crying about our nuclear power ? and building of new nuclear plants ? get over it
2012-08-19 15:12:46
Pakistan's nuclear power!? LMAO
India is not at all worried on that issue, and that's why our nuclear doctrine is "No first use policy". We know very well that Pakistan is militarily incapable of launching nukes on India.
I've heard Pakis have sacrificed a lot for building nuclear bombs. Pakis ate grass to get the money for those bombs. LOL. Bhutto said that.
India is not at all worried on that issue, and that's why our nuclear doctrine is "No first use policy". We know very well that Pakistan is militarily incapable of launching nukes on India.
I've heard Pakis have sacrificed a lot for building nuclear bombs. Pakis ate grass to get the money for those bombs. LOL. Bhutto said that.
2012-08-19 22:12:47
as a pakistani and a muslim, i condemn any such kind activity. islan was not spread on the point of a sword. you CANT force anyone to embrace the religion if they dont want to. if you do, you are goin against the teaching the so called muslims in my country "claim" to follow and preach.
the problem isnt the religion, its the people following it. they use the religion as a bait to do their dirty work knowing fully well the consequences on the day of judgement for such acts: hell (if you choose believe in it).
however, if there are problems in pakistan, so are in india as well. you are not going to tell me that hindus dont retaliate in the same way in some indian states against the muslims. but the population of india is too large be compared to the population of pakistan that i dun think statistics do justice (pakistans total population = 14% of indias population). muslims are treated the same way in burma, bosnia, chechnya, iraq, afghanistan and many other countries and syria is getting worse day by day. the media ignores that as well. when some1 tries to raise a voice against that, they are crucified. where hindus have a problem in pakistan, muslims have a problem all around the world including india.
im not trying to say that its fair, every human life is precious regardless of the religion/race/culture. but please try and be fair. present both sides of the story if you DONT want to create differences and create a wrong impression for others!
the problem isnt the religion, its the people following it. they use the religion as a bait to do their dirty work knowing fully well the consequences on the day of judgement for such acts: hell (if you choose believe in it).
however, if there are problems in pakistan, so are in india as well. you are not going to tell me that hindus dont retaliate in the same way in some indian states against the muslims. but the population of india is too large be compared to the population of pakistan that i dun think statistics do justice (pakistans total population = 14% of indias population). muslims are treated the same way in burma, bosnia, chechnya, iraq, afghanistan and many other countries and syria is getting worse day by day. the media ignores that as well. when some1 tries to raise a voice against that, they are crucified. where hindus have a problem in pakistan, muslims have a problem all around the world including india.
im not trying to say that its fair, every human life is precious regardless of the religion/race/culture. but please try and be fair. present both sides of the story if you DONT want to create differences and create a wrong impression for others!
2012-08-16 17:16:51
"islan was not spread on the point of a sword"
Stopped reading there.
Stopped reading there.
2012-08-16 17:29:14
please enlighten me!
2012-08-16 17:34:01
shouldnt it me islam?
2012-08-16 18:08:13
like u, i made a typo :)
2012-08-16 18:23:02
"Islan was not spread on the point of a sword. "
I think you got the quote wrong. It's a fact that Islam was spread by the sword. Muhammad slayed Jewish tribes to spread Islam in Medina and other wars were fought as well in order to spread the religion in Asia minor and India.
I think you got the quote wrong. It's a fact that Islam was spread by the sword. Muhammad slayed Jewish tribes to spread Islam in Medina and other wars were fought as well in order to spread the religion in Asia minor and India.
2012-08-19 16:49:25
" Muhammad slayed Jewish tribes to spread Islam in Medina"
anything to back that up?
anything to back that up?
2012-08-19 17:07:49
Scholars from the time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Ishaq
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medina#Muhammad.27s_a..
Post edited 2012-08-19 18:09:05
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Ishaq
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medina#Muhammad.27s_a..
Post edited 2012-08-19 18:09:05
2012-08-19 18:03:06
from the above links that you provided, i got this:
"In 622, Muhammad and the Muhajirun left Mecca and arrived at Yathrib, an event that would transform the religious and political landscape completely; the longstanding enmity between the Aus and Khazraj tribes was dampened as many of the two tribes embraced Islam. Muhammad, linked to the Khazraj through his great grandmother, was soon made the chief and united the Muslim converts of Yathrib under the name Ansar ("the Patrons" or "the Helpers"). After Muhammad's arrival, the city gradually came to be known as Medina (literally "city" in Arabic). Some consider this name as a derivative from the Aramaic word Medinta, which the Jewish inhabitants would have used for the city.[21]
According to Ibn Ishaq, the Muslims and Jews of the area signed an agreement, the Constitution of Medina, which committed Jewish tribes to mutual cooperation with Muslims. The nature of this document as recorded by Ibn Ishaq and transmitted by ibn Hisham is the subject of dispute among modern historians many of whom maintain that this "treaty" is possibly a collage of agreements, oral rather than written, of different dates, and that it is not clear exactly when they were made.[22]"
where does it say muhammed slayed jewish tribes so spread islam in medina?
"In 622, Muhammad and the Muhajirun left Mecca and arrived at Yathrib, an event that would transform the religious and political landscape completely; the longstanding enmity between the Aus and Khazraj tribes was dampened as many of the two tribes embraced Islam. Muhammad, linked to the Khazraj through his great grandmother, was soon made the chief and united the Muslim converts of Yathrib under the name Ansar ("the Patrons" or "the Helpers"). After Muhammad's arrival, the city gradually came to be known as Medina (literally "city" in Arabic). Some consider this name as a derivative from the Aramaic word Medinta, which the Jewish inhabitants would have used for the city.[21]
According to Ibn Ishaq, the Muslims and Jews of the area signed an agreement, the Constitution of Medina, which committed Jewish tribes to mutual cooperation with Muslims. The nature of this document as recorded by Ibn Ishaq and transmitted by ibn Hisham is the subject of dispute among modern historians many of whom maintain that this "treaty" is possibly a collage of agreements, oral rather than written, of different dates, and that it is not clear exactly when they were made.[22]"
where does it say muhammed slayed jewish tribes so spread islam in medina?
2012-08-19 21:27:02
"In 627, Abu Sufyan ibn Harb once more led Meccan forces against Medina. Because the people of Medina had dug a trench to further protect the city, this event became known as the Battle of the Trench. After a protracted siege and various skirmishes, the Meccans withdrew again. During the siege, Abu Sufyan ibn Harb had contacted the remaining Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza and formed an agreement with them, to attack the defenders from behind the lines. It was however discovered by the Muslims and thwarted. This was in breach of the Constitution of Medina and after the Meccan withdrawal, Muhammad immediately marched against the Qurayza and laid siege to their strongholds. The Jews eventually surrendered"
2012-08-20 09:38:51
lol man ur pathetic. this clearly states the jews in medina went behind the back and tried to kill muslims and violated the treaty that was signed. wat are u gonna do when people come and try to kill you? i guess ud just let them walk in ur homes and let them take over cause ur so peace loving.
if some1 else did that, it would be self defense. cause muslims did it, its "killings and massacre".
Post edited 2012-08-20 15:53:40
if some1 else did that, it would be self defense. cause muslims did it, its "killings and massacre".
Post edited 2012-08-20 15:53:40
2012-08-20 15:52:27
u forgot to highlight WHY muslims went against the jews:
During the siege, Abu Sufyan ibn Harb had contacted the remaining Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza and formed an agreement with them, to attack the defenders from behind the lines. It was however discovered by the Muslims and thwarted. This was in breach of the Constitution of Medina and after the Meccan withdrawal, Muhammad immediately marched against the Qurayza and laid siege to their strongholds. The Jews eventually surrendered"
During the siege, Abu Sufyan ibn Harb had contacted the remaining Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza and formed an agreement with them, to attack the defenders from behind the lines. It was however discovered by the Muslims and thwarted. This was in breach of the Constitution of Medina and after the Meccan withdrawal, Muhammad immediately marched against the Qurayza and laid siege to their strongholds. The Jews eventually surrendered"
2012-08-20 16:12:53
I never said anyone was at fault. You made the claim that Islam wasn't spread by the sword and I'm merely showing you the violent way in which they treated opposition. How am I pathetic exactly? Why are you insulting me all of a sudden? I'm not lying or citing negligible sources am I? Islam was spread through violence just like Christianity, Judaism and many other religions, that's all I'm saying. You can choose to disagree or swallow your pride and admit that Islam did spread violently but don't insinuate me being pathetic for sourcing you with facts.
2012-08-20 16:57:33
during those times, most wars were fought due to injustices and wrongdoings in those areas or to defend themselves. even if the wars was to conquer land, after the battles, the non-muslims who were captured were NOT forced to accept islam. if they did accept islam, they did it on their free will. The non-muslims were given different jobs (for example, to educate others with their worldly knowledge and labor).
i think u and i both interpret the phrase "spread on the point of a sword" differently. the way i say it, unless you point a sword at someone and force them 2 accept islam, the phrase does apply. and that was definitely NOT the case in the above mentioned situations.
There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. [Al-Quran, 2:256]
apologies for me being offensive. have a good day and peace be on you
i think u and i both interpret the phrase "spread on the point of a sword" differently. the way i say it, unless you point a sword at someone and force them 2 accept islam, the phrase does apply. and that was definitely NOT the case in the above mentioned situations.
There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. [Al-Quran, 2:256]
apologies for me being offensive. have a good day and peace be on you
2012-08-20 19:36:24
Both Islam and Christianity were spread with the tip of the sword.
When the Islamic empire was established in India, the rulers imposed heavy taxes(Jaziya and pilgrim tax) on all non-muslims. Most Hindus had already become very poor after islam came to India. Now if they had to pay huge taxes, they would have no other option than converting. Any educated man would call this a forcible mass conversion.
And you can add the murder of 80 million Hindus & Sikhs, and the destruction of 16000 Hindu temples to the list of islam's accolades.
When the Islamic empire was established in India, the rulers imposed heavy taxes(Jaziya and pilgrim tax) on all non-muslims. Most Hindus had already become very poor after islam came to India. Now if they had to pay huge taxes, they would have no other option than converting. Any educated man would call this a forcible mass conversion.
And you can add the murder of 80 million Hindus & Sikhs, and the destruction of 16000 Hindu temples to the list of islam's accolades.
2012-08-16 21:01:07
when i talk about spreading islam, i dont talk about the mughals or their invasion of the subcontinent. im talking about how Prophet Muhammed taught the muslims to spread islam. the mughals beliefs were against the teachings. if they did kill 80 million innocent hindus and sikhs then they will be held responsible for it on the day of judgement.
the Prophet declared the 1st battle in retaliation to the people of Makkah raiding muslim caravans and killing the people of Medina (battle of Badr). when they were at war, the warriors were strictly forbidden to hurt innocent women, children and all those who do not hold up arms against them in battle. they were also forbidden to hurt trees. that is the true teaching of islam: stand up for whats right!
the point im trying to make is that just because one claims to be a muslim, doesnt make them one if they dont follow the religion properly. so if some1 says that he/she is a muslim and blows up him/herself killing innocent people, that person is NOT a muslim and will pay for it in the hereafter. now days, muslims are the problem, not islam
the Prophet declared the 1st battle in retaliation to the people of Makkah raiding muslim caravans and killing the people of Medina (battle of Badr). when they were at war, the warriors were strictly forbidden to hurt innocent women, children and all those who do not hold up arms against them in battle. they were also forbidden to hurt trees. that is the true teaching of islam: stand up for whats right!
the point im trying to make is that just because one claims to be a muslim, doesnt make them one if they dont follow the religion properly. so if some1 says that he/she is a muslim and blows up him/herself killing innocent people, that person is NOT a muslim and will pay for it in the hereafter. now days, muslims are the problem, not islam
2012-08-16 22:30:31
I appreciate your thinking. But hazrat Muhammad didn't bring Islam into India, some barbaric muslim rulers like Muhammad Ghori did. And this vindicates that in India Islam was spread with the tip of the sword.
2012-08-17 10:20:23
i know. its sad how people deviated from the teachings and that makes other people judge the religion as a whole because they claim to represent the religion.
the same thing with this al-qaeda and taliban. just cause of these rotten people, people think the religion is evil and asks you to kill all non-muslims from the face of the earth. but that is not the case. i just moved to canada only recently and i can tell you that the non-muslims are far better people than the muslims now days (duznt matter where they are from).
the same thing with this al-qaeda and taliban. just cause of these rotten people, people think the religion is evil and asks you to kill all non-muslims from the face of the earth. but that is not the case. i just moved to canada only recently and i can tell you that the non-muslims are far better people than the muslims now days (duznt matter where they are from).
2012-08-17 15:44:56
Its very considerate of you if you think this way.I respect all religion ,besides its the other fact that i am agnostic. I am hindu ,and we never discriminate muslim people in our country. They are free of their will. No such taxes are hassled over them, infact they are given addition minority quota (education, etc) for their development and foreseeable future. Their population ain't abating rather they are flourishing here.
If we want to retaliate we could have also abducted, raped and persecuted Muslim very easily as we are in majority here in india, but we don't. The riot and blood-shed occuring in india between hindu muslim is facted on religion dispute but on their segregation like in pakistan.
If we want to retaliate we could have also abducted, raped and persecuted Muslim very easily as we are in majority here in india, but we don't. The riot and blood-shed occuring in india between hindu muslim is facted on religion dispute but on their segregation like in pakistan.
2012-08-17 17:55:57
in muslim countries that are wealthy, no one has to pay taxes which includes the non muslims. unfortunately, pakistan has deviated from the name of religion that i refuse to accept it as an islamic state. the rulers are thieves and thugs. they are oppressing even their own people let alone the others. illiteracy is at its peak. the economy is as low as it can get. GDP per capita is less than a $3000 a year.
during the times of the second caliph omar ibn al-khattab, there was so much wealth in the muslim empire that even the non-muslims use to get a wazifa (stipend) as well.
during the times of the second caliph omar ibn al-khattab, there was so much wealth in the muslim empire that even the non-muslims use to get a wazifa (stipend) as well.
2012-08-19 22:18:26
Extremist Islam is like old stalin communist... its pure terrorism.. and one thing is true! when christian piss or kick the Qu'ran , muslims revolts and do riots against Christians (no problem(, but when Muslims , spit , piss and kick the Bible the Christians dont do nothing! While Islam at his extreme is terrorism, extreme Christian is pure gold / money steal! Pure facts for anyone who haven't been brainwashed... love and peace is the way! Its about us help this brothers and sisters in Pakistan!
2012-08-16 17:23:06
I don`t get enitrely the problem but I have one question
Are pakistanis and indians the same nation (people) regardless their religion?
If they are I don`t how they could put religion over national identity we albanians have been always known to preach the 3 biggest religions , I have myself catholic albanian friends and I go with them as well as with my islam friends , we don`t see each other different because of religion , we don`t really give a fck about it , in prishtina there are maybe only 2% non-muslims and still there was built a cathedral in the center of it for them , and nobody really was against it , don`t see the point on smashing your own countrymen just because of religion. seems plain stupid to me maybe I`m missing something here but this is my opinion it maybe wrong though
Post edited 2012-08-16 21:15:42
Are pakistanis and indians the same nation (people) regardless their religion?
If they are I don`t how they could put religion over national identity we albanians have been always known to preach the 3 biggest religions , I have myself catholic albanian friends and I go with them as well as with my islam friends , we don`t see each other different because of religion , we don`t really give a fck about it , in prishtina there are maybe only 2% non-muslims and still there was built a cathedral in the center of it for them , and nobody really was against it , don`t see the point on smashing your own countrymen just because of religion. seems plain stupid to me maybe I`m missing something here but this is my opinion it maybe wrong though
Post edited 2012-08-16 21:15:42
2012-08-16 21:14:58
Same people but different mindsets.
2012-08-16 23:59:02
If you are saying that all Indians belong to the same ethnicity, then you are terribly wrong. The west thinks that all brown people in Asia belong to the same ethnicity, but its in correct. In India people from each and every state come from different ethnicity, different culture and different language. If you ever visit India you'll get the idea how diverse our country is. Even Pakistan is also a quite diverse country - the Sindhis, the Balochs, the Pastuns are all different peoples.
2012-08-17 10:26:36
You talk about the minorities plight well let me enlighten you sir the majority is no better. We are all suffering! We are a country at war sir whether we like to admit it or not is a separate issue. Please let us be and stop your hate towards us. You really want the world to bomb us back to the stoneage? Do we really deserve that?
2012-08-16 23:19:22
Muslim girls arent being kidnapped,raped and sold in broad daylight with help of your system. Nice way to run away from an issue.
The whole media there is a joke too. I couldn't believe even their media support such degenerates.
I thank god that my family wasnt born in other side.
The whole media there is a joke too. I couldn't believe even their media support such degenerates.
I thank god that my family wasnt born in other side.
2012-08-16 23:58:03
1.Infact they are! Flip through any Pakistani newspaper and you will know!
2.Im not running im right here :D
3.Yes the media here is a joke!
4.My family was born on the other side LoL like that made a difference!
2.Im not running im right here :D
3.Yes the media here is a joke!
4.My family was born on the other side LoL like that made a difference!
2012-08-17 00:07:35
muslims girls aren't being kidnapped ? you gotta be kidding me, they are being kidnapped at large amount its just the fact media doesn't highlight does thing .. do you even know how unsafe is it for us to go out late night after we started war on terrorism with bloody U.S every single pakistani is suffering from it ..
2012-08-19 15:17:42
India is also suffering highly by these terrorists, and our government is just fucking sitting on its arse without providing much against terrorism. Fucking motherfucker politician just steeped in scams, votes, fueling the ethnic dispute to work up their politics agendas.
Presently a huge exodus of N.R. peoples of india are being intimidated to head-off to their home from different part all over india. Their are bulk of mischievous sms have been sent to these people. And some little evidence has been recovered since on tracing these sms that they has been sourced from pakistan.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/india-asks-pak-..
Presently a huge exodus of N.R. peoples of india are being intimidated to head-off to their home from different part all over india. Their are bulk of mischievous sms have been sent to these people. And some little evidence has been recovered since on tracing these sms that they has been sourced from pakistan.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/india-asks-pak-..
2012-08-19 17:29:30
the infrastructure of the roads and the way people drive often reflects the attitude of the area and gives a general idea how things work in everything else in lfie in that region. Lets say i was blown away by the trafiic and driving attitude, if they can do stuff like that in streets they will easily do muuch much worse stuff when theyre angry or doing other stuff, considering this is only how their public transportation "systems" work... im kindof not surprised at the high birth ratio over there, cause if they had normal ratio, they would have all killed themselves in one way or another by now probably. everything is for a reason and now i now why the population needs to grow fast in certain places. its evolution i think.
2012-08-17 00:18:26
Pakistani leaders are quite blatant about killing Hindus and Sikhs. This guy Zaid Hamid is Pakistan's Security Advisor, see what he says about Hindus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAHPsyWOBkY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAHPsyWOBkY
2012-08-17 10:42:57
atleast he speaks out his mind out unlike the pakis who hate minorities and still claim to secular
2012-08-17 22:20:00
Its time for the Rajputs, the Sikhs, the Jats, the Gurkhas, the Marathas and all other believers of Indian faiths to unite and wage war against islamic aggression before its too late.
2012-08-18 10:17:01
Muslims have always had low regards towards female "infidels" Generally, Sharia law quite blatantly discriminates against everyone who isnt a muslim heterosexual male.
Muslims in the West often struggle to integrate and its not because of terrorism but the problem is their mindset. They fail to realize the West is secular and we no longer follow the chauvinistic, homophobic scriptures. We´ve been through that already, we never go backward!
Muslims in the West often struggle to integrate and its not because of terrorism but the problem is their mindset. They fail to realize the West is secular and we no longer follow the chauvinistic, homophobic scriptures. We´ve been through that already, we never go backward!
2012-08-17 17:31:15
Proof? Common thinking about Muslims in the west yet you guys come and kill our people. I don't hate the US people, it's the people in power I'm talking about. In Islam, we are thought to treat other religions/human being regardless of what their race or religion is kindly. And how is the word of Allah the Most Merciful from the Al-Quran making us go backward? Instead it asks us to think about the wonders of this world and we can make lots of astonishing scientific discoveries inside the book. Just open up the english translation of the Qur'an if you don't believe me..
Most of you don't even appreciate the works of Muslims such as Nasir-al-din Al-Tusi that discovered Tangent or Ibn Al Haytham with his camera obscura discovery.
Most of you don't even appreciate the works of Muslims such as Nasir-al-din Al-Tusi that discovered Tangent or Ibn Al Haytham with his camera obscura discovery.
2012-08-17 22:44:22
The topic of discussion is not religion, its about persecution of people on any grounds whatsoever.
There is indeed a lot of hateful and violent verses against non-muslims mentioned in the Quran, and I'm talking about the Quran translated into English by muslim scholars not western scholars. But this is not the topic of discussion so lets refrain.
There is indeed a lot of hateful and violent verses against non-muslims mentioned in the Quran, and I'm talking about the Quran translated into English by muslim scholars not western scholars. But this is not the topic of discussion so lets refrain.
2012-08-18 10:21:50
+1
2012-08-18 10:40:23
Well I wasn't replying to the topic, I reply to him. Hateful and violent verses? Well, they're more like taken out of context to me. Look, no matter if your an Jew, Christian, Atheist, Buddhist and etc, we as Muslims can not FORCE you to convert to Islam because tha t is not how our beloved messenger(S.A.W.)preached or teach us to do. Also, please look at OldSchool's post he pretty much summed up everything :)
2012-08-18 13:01:03
You can't change the fact that both the Bible and the Quran has hate and violence in them. Most Christians admit that but Muslims don't admit. Thats sad.
2012-08-18 14:49:12
Pakistan government doesn't let Hindus celebrate Independence-Day in their country.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh..
Indian and paki govt are so different.Our govt lets minority have the right to riot , arson and kill. In pakistan peaceful minority arent even treated as equal citizens.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh..
Indian and paki govt are so different.Our govt lets minority have the right to riot , arson and kill. In pakistan peaceful minority arent even treated as equal citizens.
2012-08-18 00:08:01
The biggest evil in history was Mahatma Gandhi. He was a fucking bastard. He didn't do anything to stop Bhagat Singh's execution.
And Gandhi is responsible for the present suffering of Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan. After the partition, Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan were 21% of the total population, and they were being continuously slaughtered there even after the partition was over. So the all the Pakistani Hindus & Sikhs decided to settle in India. But Gandhi didn't let that happen. He and Nehru ordered the sealing of the border with West Pakistan. This is the reason why Nathuram Godse shot that motherfucker Gandhi.
And Gandhi is responsible for the present suffering of Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan. After the partition, Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan were 21% of the total population, and they were being continuously slaughtered there even after the partition was over. So the all the Pakistani Hindus & Sikhs decided to settle in India. But Gandhi didn't let that happen. He and Nehru ordered the sealing of the border with West Pakistan. This is the reason why Nathuram Godse shot that motherfucker Gandhi.
2012-08-18 10:29:56
please don't use filth for Mahatma Gandhi..As you and me didn't experienced the situation past during Independence war. He sacrificed his whole life to salvage the dream of independent india. Yet some people have blasphemous opinion about him which just irks me (no offense).
It would be just a similar situation if later on after generations, people say filth about Anna.
It would be just a similar situation if later on after generations, people say filth about Anna.
2012-08-18 10:55:50
Don't insult Anna by comparing him with Gandhi. You don't anything about Gandhi. Gandhi and Nehru are responsible for the deaths of thousands of Hindus and Sikhs. Subhash Chandra Bose could not come to India after WWII because of these two pricks.
2012-08-18 11:14:21
How old are you? 150?
Your mind is exploited by reading too many books.
Your mind is exploited by reading too many books.
2012-08-18 11:44:37
Do you suck penis of Congress people?
2012-08-18 12:30:31
Bitch :x
I don't have voter ID card =(
I don't have voter ID card =(
2012-08-18 12:32:21
STFU!
I know you are a Congress agent.
I know you are a Congress agent.
2012-08-18 12:35:07
Mei Anna Hu 8)
2012-08-18 12:37:39
I hope you are not a double agent.
If you love India then get a voter's card and vote for BJP. Narendra Modi is our messiah.
If you love India then get a voter's card and vote for BJP. Narendra Modi is our messiah.
2012-08-18 12:40:36
And I seriously think you are a RSS/BJP agent. :P
2012-08-20 19:54:46
RSS & BJP the made of real Indians, not some Italian bitch.
2012-08-20 21:23:24
And that doesn't make them any better than congress. both Congress and BJP are pieces of the same shit, Indian politics. India needs a revolution, a hero! And I am sure that hero is not from politics.
2012-08-20 21:30:09
Narendra Modi is the messiah!
2012-08-21 14:02:27
The hero must command respect from all communities.. I highly doubt Narendra Modi fulfills that criteria. Hoping for the third front to come up!
2012-08-21 14:24:45
Islam is not Indian culture. It doesn't matter what muslims think about Narendra Modi.
We are talking about real Indians here.
We are talking about real Indians here.
2012-08-21 23:04:54
Who is a real Indian? Please enlighten me, Mr. genius!
2012-08-22 06:08:49
A Hindu or Sikh or Buddhist or Jain.
A person who follows and respect any faith/culture which originated in India.
A person who follows and respect any faith/culture which originated in India.
2012-08-22 22:11:42
i got your back..am kejriwal....
karo mu-chodi
karo mu-chodi
2012-08-18 13:40:17
ok ok
you and me have some clashing opinion on this context. No problem. Nothing conclusive in wrangling about that.Subhash chandra bose was a great man. I revere him even more than Gandhi. Just imploring to not blaspheme him.
And i am not insulting Anna. It was just taken as an example.
you and me have some clashing opinion on this context. No problem. Nothing conclusive in wrangling about that.Subhash chandra bose was a great man. I revere him even more than Gandhi. Just imploring to not blaspheme him.
And i am not insulting Anna. It was just taken as an example.
2012-08-18 12:10:12
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/forced-conversi..
http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1..
I'm So Sad, So Very, Very Sad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLz54rWO2xM
http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1..
I'm So Sad, So Very, Very Sad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLz54rWO2xM
2012-08-19 15:04:14
now its feel fair..
may the indian muslim too take off to pakistan..
may the indian muslim too take off to pakistan..
2012-08-19 16:37:19
yawn pakistan and muslim bashing again.
2012-08-19 16:57:07
link does not work
2012-08-19 18:05:06
Presently a huge exodus of N.R. peoples of india are being intimidated to head-off to their home from different part all over india. Their are bulk of mischievous sms which have been sent to these people. And some little evidence has been recovered since this far on tracing these sms that they has been sourced from pakistan. Its very reprehensibly gross if Pakistan is really backing and abating these terrorists behind the curtain.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/india-asks-pak-..
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/india-asks-pak-..
2012-08-19 18:19:17
if everyone believed what is in the media I bet we would be on world war 5 by now
2012-08-19 18:28:10
I don't mean to bash on Pakistan. But Pakistan have to account for these act. Besides these pakistan always involved in persecuting and discriminating hindu, sikh and other racial group languishing in pakistan.In india Muslim peoples are not discriminated. They are free of their will. No additional taxes are hassled over them, infact they are given addition minority quota (education, etc) for their development and foreseeable future. Their population ain't abating rather they are flourishing here.
If we want to retaliate we could have also abducted, raped and persecuted Muslim very easily as we are in majority here in india, but we don't. The riot and blood-shed and other problems occuring in india between hindu muslim is facted on religion dispute but not on their segregation like in pakistan.
If we want to retaliate we could have also abducted, raped and persecuted Muslim very easily as we are in majority here in india, but we don't. The riot and blood-shed and other problems occuring in india between hindu muslim is facted on religion dispute but not on their segregation like in pakistan.
2012-08-19 18:36:08
If you ask any pakistani they are fed up of their own government to the point they dont feel safe themselves let alone raising voice against discrimination of minority groups, most hindus in pak are in Sindh where they occupy vast lands where they grow red chillies and export them, the current government hasnt spared there own people in murdering and occupying land and other atrocities, hindus unfortunately are just in the mix. I am sure this isnt just about religion as much as it is about money and land they own.
Lawlessness is to the extreme in these times unless you are member of the ruling party.
Lawlessness is to the extreme in these times unless you are member of the ruling party.
2012-08-19 18:56:49
so basically it still pakistani gov. fault.
2012-08-19 19:31:55
Your links aren't working.
2012-08-19 18:28:46
oye ye link tere comment se hi copy kiya tha be....
2012-08-19 18:41:07
ye bata mera jhanda kaisa lag raha h????
2012-08-19 18:48:20
mera jhanda kaisa hai?
2012-08-19 18:57:17
are you quoting me or asking me?
2012-08-19 19:33:59
What about mass genocide by budhists against muslims that is happening at this moment in Burma ?
2012-08-19 18:10:31
please give me a link too. so i could pore over some detail.
2012-08-19 18:23:16
less than hundred people killed doesnt count as genocide.
2012-08-19 19:14:01
to me , killing one human is a genocide
so i don't care about genocide's definition
have a nice day
so i don't care about genocide's definition
have a nice day
2012-08-19 19:35:03
more and more useless threads ...
2012-08-19 18:26:55
I dont where u get the facts from, 2% hindus living in pak just pulling stats from ur ass, census hasnt been done in pak for god knows how many years.
2012-08-19 19:21:13
nice tread for a gaming forum
Post edited 2012-08-19 19:27:00
Post edited 2012-08-19 19:27:00
2012-08-19 19:26:49
its off-topic dude
2012-08-19 19:35:24
Am I welcome in muslim country if I obviously behave different than they do? Like eating the stuff they don't eat. Or during ramadam I just eat and such outside?! Or do you get buttfucked then by 100vs1?
2012-08-20 16:09:48
ati_npatch 0
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rate 25000
ati_subdiv 0
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2012-08-20 21:26:07
Wrong.
rate 20000
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2012-08-23 20:07:37
noob detector tuned you out...awesome ;)
2012-08-23 20:09:57
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