It's painfully annoying to watch when Carn just interrupts Lurppis every time.

lurp is nice guy,respect!

GO CS 1.6 ALL!

i hope that you will make it something like Live On 3 the Djwheat's show! (still it is my favorite esports show ever! ) anyways good job and it is enjoyable enough

This is a great podcast, and I think you three are the most qualified people to be casting it. You all have great minds in different ways, that just works in a show like this.

You can discuss infinitely about cs.

very interesting so far

regarding the problem of ESC: they are now in a German organisation and afaik ESC got a bootcamp-base in Germany (or had one and is building a new one now?). they should play the important internet matches from Germany.

Post edited 2013-03-05 15:48:42

Thorin wearing his jacket with polar bear hears, is it that cold at your place ? xD

utubes blocked in china dammit :(

I disagree with the "only ranking-based invitation". How could unknown but strong newcomer-teams qualify? In offline qualifier tournaments?! Way too expensive for the tournament-host since they would have to organize such offline qualifiers in several different regions...
Or were you thinking about offline events which are independent from the actual big tournament?! Let me explain it to you Scandinavians why this isn't possible:

Outside Scandinavia there are almost no small offline tournaments left! For example in Germany we only have like 5-10% of the LANS we had in 2004. There are simply not enough open offline tournaments anymore - and almost none that would bring you any credibility.
How should a unknown but very good team of young talented players find their way into the big tournaments? They NEED online qualifiers.

I'm for the hybrid-system: A certain number of invited teams (which get invited according to some always-up-to-date global ranking) and a certain number of team that qualified in online qualifier + maybe an BYOC tournament(of course not every tournament organisation is able to hold a BYOC; only an BYOC wouldn't be a fair solution either because it only supports amateur teams from the local area - amateur teams from far away simply can't afford it).

Post edited 2013-03-05 16:37:03

Just as Thorin said quakeworld has ways of simulating ping dosnt cs have the same, I've never tried it but there is a "fakelag" command in cs you can use to simulate a higher ping. Not sure if this actually effects you or just your delay or if it just adds to your ping on the net_graph.

oh wow lurppis, very clever to talk about how you tried to cheat on the HLTV community, very clever :D

but ye, MVP awards were always a joke. that will never change. having only a jury wouldn't be a good solution either since the members of that jury would most likely be friends of some of the nominated players and therefore not fair-minded.

While the invitations may seem like a good idea with the purpose of always getting the world's top5-8 teams to your event (especially the Poles), I don't think they make any sense from the point of view of people who invest in e-Sports and who actually provide the money the teams end up playing for.

If the tournament someone decides to sponsor directly invites all the best teams, it leaves the online qualifiers to semi-known and unknown teams. That means they will get far less exposure throughout the season and during the qualification process, which is in comparison much longer than the 3-day LAN event that follows it. In addition to that, the qualifications often hype up the upcoming LAN, create stories with upsets and rivalries, and give chances to less known teams to become known. With the expansion of streams in the past 2-3 years this has become particularly important.

So it makes much more sense to have NiP compete in various online leagues all the time than to have them automatically qualified for every LAN event, as a lot more people will watch NiP play online than the other teams, which automatically means the brand gets more exposure.

With ESL's past IEM events when the Poles got in through the back door, they got the best of both worlds, everyone played online in the most prestigious league/qualification process, and later all the best teams were on LAN. I can't really blame them for anything, they always did it by the rules, even in that UMX case mentioned in the podcast :)

I guess that might be a too global way of looking at it, but the ones who give the money have the right to expect the exposure. Ofc there are tournaments who don't really depend on that so much, as their sponsors focus more on the main event itself and not so much on CS in particular, like DreamHack, ESWC, GameGune, Cph Games. But the ones we've got going in the next few months like EMS, SLTV StarSeries, ESEA all have online leagues for those purposes.

And besides, isn't it better for the fans to watch all the best teams play few times a week than just once a month at a major LAN?

Good podcast again guys!

Now then, I will start by saying I was a css player, and never played 1.6 competitively, even though I don't think it should matter. Anyways, after listening to the podcast i was hoping there would be some good discussions, about various things, and while I completely understand its a podcast and therefore meant to be subjective I feel like this episode has been so disrespectful to some people in certain moments that I just wanted to turn it off. Rather than listening to a dicussion about problems fans are always having to put up with we saw a discussion about how s**t certain individuals are in the opinion of some of the show presenters. A first example here would be the whole fnatic conundrum, with them picking up Rytter and Jokern, and how they were later replaced by MODDIII and StingeR. First of all while both of them might have no done anything of the sort in 1.6, they were still part of top danish teams in css, and therefore lan experienced and known in the community, probably not at the level of their 1.6 counterparts in the team, but that is all down to the number of events 1.6 had in comparison to css and the world wide range of them. Secondly i feel that both player actually played quite decent for Fnatic and at time were the standout players for that team, and played way better than trace and Friis. That said, I was quite appalled to hear, how much Thorin disrespected them, pretty much saying how bad they were and unknown they were, and how they should have never been in fnatic, and even though both the players have nothing to disrespect the org, and as stated by Thorin himself, Rytter had at a certain point asked sorry for not playing as well as fnatic was expecting and hoping to not let down his and the teams fans down, he still adds onto the insult of saying how nobody cares as nobody every followed him anyways. To be honest if I was rytter and that podcast came out right before the EMS cup, i would've probably refused to play it, considering he helped the new fnatic getting to the semi-finals of said cup. Well to me that sounds like the reasoning of a 16 year old, as every grown man would have a way more objective reasoning about that, especially when you are in a podcast made for cs.go fans, where im hoping it is another way to make the game grow.


That gotten out of the way i'll speak about my opinion about invite based tournaments, which i think are great but should not be the sole tournaments in the scene. It is great to be able to see lans where teams like Esports Serbia in Vienna that nobody knows off goes, and beats some teams that are considered way better than them, the same way in which the champions league has unknown quantities coming in and doing really well, as Rubin Kazan for example a couple of years ago, or the Porto - Monaco Final. (since we like doing football comparisons). Also the online / world cup qualifier comparison doesn't work. AS the world cup is played on a couple different fields in one country, with a certain weather, football field, and temperature while the qualifiers are played in various different fields around the world making it two different ways of qualifying and then playing the tournaments just like in CS.

Finally about the MVP situation, i think this is very situational and subjective, yet in this case the vote had nothing more than face value, so it didn't really matter, but in my opinion if for example, in football terms again, Faroe Islands (no disrespect for anyone from Faroe Islands) qualify for the world cup and get 3rd place, with a great goalkeeper, then yes he will probably win MVP, as nobody would expect them to get 3rd place.
Im sorry if my english isn't great. Anyways those are my two cents

Another great podcast. O agree with the comment that you guys could discuss infinitely about cs. Keep em coming.

I understand the bashing of the skill of German teams by lurpis, because it's partially true.

You're talking about the best teams and how it would get you more viewers.

What?

Biggest nonesense. Without a German team representing their country the views would drop dramatically, same goes for other countries too. In fact it would actually help the community the most if there is a top 5 German, American & Russian team.

If I can give some advice to cArn it would be to try and be a little bit more decisive. I understand you have a reputation to uphold but it isn't that interesting when you're so middle-of-the-road on every remotely controversial point made in the podcast.

Also agree with Gugli, it was pretty disrespectful of Thorin toward Rytter considering he's one of the most well-liked and respected players in the Danish scene and has been for a number of years, I'd imagine he does have a fair amount of fans. That's also without mentioning the fact that both him and JOKERN performed well with the team (JOKERN was excellent at HKLAN).

I understand the whole 1.6-bubble but, as cArn said, you have to respect that CS:GO is a new game that features both 1.6 and CS:S players and contrary to what a lot of people (generally morons) think, they're pretty equal in terms of ability.

Post edited 2013-03-05 19:37:38

They should just stop handing out those awards at every tournament. Also they shouldn't be decided by a community vote thats just garbage. Rather hand it out once a year like heaven media for all their tournaments they hosted/will host in 2013.

What I really dislike is that the tournaments in general just offer too few spots for everyone who wants to attend. I'm sure that this often happens.

Also the ESEA system sucks I totally agree and n!faculty won't do any damage at the finals. Even the american teams have a decent chance to win versus them. I wouldn't underestimate them anyways. I'm sure that ESC would've done a great show on the finals. Even that they haven't beaten the best yet they always play close on lan. 15:15 versus Navi, 11:4 lead versus NiP and lost 1:2 to VeryGames.

I'm not that long in the competitive CS scene as others but if I know it right some years back there were even lan qualifiers for every country to attend this one lan tournament. Like Kode5, WCG and others. I'd love to see this again.

The admins of the ESL are garbage. It doesn't matter what kind of admin it is. If it's just a community admin and whatnot. I remember the last online qualifiers for IEM in 1.6 and in the first round there got like 16 of 32 disqualified because they were using net_graph. Hilarious since it's allowed like everywhere except there and I'm not sure if anyone is using that for cheating. haha

Since it's CS:GO now I don't really see a big problem anymore with having a ping of 50 or something.



Post edited 2013-03-05 19:52:19

I have to say I think these podcasts are amazing. The way you guys discuss CS is interesting to listen to and will keep me tuned in for the next episode.

On the topic of the difference between the Quake community and the CS community:

The mods made for Quake to grant equal ping would be very good for CS online competition wise. The problem with the CS community is finding someone willing to code it, or tournaments picking it up.

A big example of this is maps. There have been no real new maps for ages. The big tournaments simply do not pick them up. I think a lot more effort should be put on designing and picking up new maps for tournament play.

The old maps have been played over a million times. Obviously also because they are very good maps, but refreshment is much needed.

For example de_train in CS 1.6 was in my opinion the best/diffucult map. Both from a player as a spectator point of view. Where in CS:GO it seems more forced upon because we used to play this map in 1.6, even though the GO version is not that good. In 1.6 train matches were by far my favourite to spectate.

We are hanging on to the old maps because of their legacy, even though they might not have translated their 'features' which made them so loved from 1.6 -> CS:GO.

The community and big tournaments should be more accepting on throwing in a different version of a map (like fixing Inferno Banana) or adding completely new ones.

Obviously having a new map being played requires the big teams to make new tactics on them, I think it is more so the players stopping the new maps from showing up in the map pool rather then the modding community itself.

Maybe an interesting topic to discuss on your next Podcast?

Is CS growing boring with the same maps over and over. I'm still watching after 13 years so probably not BUT, why is there no much needed refreshment.

Great podcasts, it is something that the community lacked. I wish there was someone playing devil's advocate more.

I agreed on most things except the MVP thingy, I posted on the other topic why I voted for Nico. But I agree that if it was named "player, fan appreciated the most" would be more correct. Which in reality isn't a big deal.

good show, keep doing it :]

I love this show! It's perfect with cArn, Thooorin and lurppis.

Hoping you will invite players to the show in the future that gets to answer questions from the three of you and from the public aswell.

Good job!

Great work on the cast.

from what you guys laugh at the very beginning? :>

Kpr > Mvp.
K/d > Mvp.
Most amount of frags (not including overtimes) > Mvp.

My conclusion of this is either have the mvp vote but only ask the players because fanboys dont care who really was mvp.
Most amount of frags (not including overtimes) in my opnion is the best way of saying who did best at the tournament.