Fiskoo: "NiP is absolutely thrilled"
Time: 2013-08-15 07:57
Game: Counter-Strike: Global Offensive

Over at NiP's website, the team's manager Niklas "Fiskoo" Fischier has posted a lengthy blog about NiP's visit to Valve's headquarters and the latest CS:GO update.

The blog is titled "Counter-Strike Evolving" and explains how NiP have been in contact with the CS:GO developers ever since ESWC 2012, where some of Valve's people traveled to.

As NiP were planning on flying across the pond a few days early regardless to get adjusted to the timezone, they made plans to stop by Bellevue, WA en route to Dallas, TX.


NiP playing CS:GO at Valve HQ (Photo: nip-gaming.se

According to Fischier the future for CS:GO is bright, and he also credits the development team for their understanding of the game and how different changes might affect others.

Below is how he explained the process of getting the M4A1, including the much-awaited silencer, brought back, and how Valve adjusted its price according to NiP's thoughts:

"Let me give you an example. Yesterday we got the chance to play the new update, and among other things it would bring back the Silenced M4A1. We were so excited we couldn’t wait. When we finally started playing we saw the awesomeness we had been waiting for so long. We got even more excited until we saw…. that it only had 20 rounds in the clip. Disappointment beyond belief is the only way to describe what we felt. But since we have experience working with the dev team from before we held our disappointment under control and asked for the reason. And here comes the good part. They as per usual had a counter question:

"Well if it had 30 rounds would that make all of you buy that weapon every round?"

-"Yes!"

"Ok, there is your reason"

"Would anyone of you buy it as it is now"

-"Yes, I would" (Only f0rest)

"Well if we lowered the price to $2900?"

-"Yes then we would too" (Xizt, Fiff)

"Done!, I will go change it straight away"

The blog ends with an intriguing promise as Fischer tells us how long Valve had been working on this update, and what else is in store in the near future from the Bellevue office:

"Worth mentioning is that todays update has taken a year to finish, and for you critics they are still working on:

"• Deagle

"• Movement

"• In game color and readability

"• General pistol balance (Glock in particular atm)

"Biggest problems with changing movement and pistol balance is that different opinions always clash."

You can read the full blog at NiP-Gaming.se. It also features some photos of NiP at Valve HQ, including one of Robin "Fifflaren" Johansson setting the latest CS:GO update live.

n11111
2013-08-15 07:59:33
you live in hltv.org? o_O
2013-08-15 08:21:32
juu
2013-08-15 08:41:12
Valve logic:

"Are you going to play with that weapon?"

"yes"

"Ok then, let's fuck it up like the rest of the game"
2013-08-15 08:53:12
by: .xtR
#60
+1
2013-08-15 09:19:17
good
2013-08-15 09:32:43
hahah..
2013-08-15 09:51:02
+2
2013-08-15 10:12:18
i think the new m4a1-s would to op if there would be 30 rounds in 1 magazine, its op anyway
2013-08-15 10:20:45
+1
2013-08-15 10:26:12
this
2013-08-15 10:29:48
hurr it has a silencer it's op durr

wot
2013-08-15 11:30:53
recoil
2013-08-15 11:31:46
People can't control recoil so they think it's OP

lame
2013-08-15 11:51:48
actually... people CAN control the recoil, and that's why they think it's OP. It's perfectly fine. Anyone bitching for the ammo count, clearly doesn't wanna see cs be more diverse than your typical M4/Ak shit
2013-08-15 13:09:33
Thing is, to me at least, it makes it really hard to actually hold areas and control them. Think about it, it's 33% less bullets than in the original m4a4. If the terrorists just plays it slow they can outpeek you really easy, and you will have to fall back faster to reload - and during that time the T's can advance and gain control/positions.
It makes for more diverse play, definately, but it will take some time to get used to, and will be hard to find a good balance. Especially in MM when you play with randoms.
2013-08-15 14:33:01
I wasn't clear.
People can't control the recoil of the AK47 and M4A4 so they think the silencer with better accuracy is OP.

The smaller bullet clip doesn't compensate at all. Unfortunately I'm not f0rest and I can't do headshot taps, so I have to reload after every spray.
Furthermore the AK47 can 1-hit from long range; neither M4 can.
Still going to keep preferring the AK.
2013-08-16 01:56:19
It's perfectly fine. Either get better at aiming, or go back to M4A4. This gun isn't a replacement, it's an addition. It's meant to be used tactically and carefully. The only thing it personally needs is 20/60 instead of 20/40. But except that, the 20 bullets make sense and even though I don't personally use the weapon, the recoil and level of accuracy you get with it is insane, you don't even have to pull down close-mid range. It's only at long range, do you have to pull down slightly on the gun, or better yet, just double burst for HS.

As for the AK comments. That's the point. It's a far playing field because:
CTs: Have the better side (defending) but have expensive guns and weak guns. However they have silencers to help.
Ts: Have a harder role to play (attacking and planting) but have better and cheaper weapons. They also don't need some features like defuse kits which are $400. Without the money system, CTs would be overpowered.

Post edited 2013-08-17 04:07:45
2013-08-17 04:05:38
"Either get better at aiming, or go back to the M4A4."
That comment doesn't apply. Why would I need better aim to use the M4A1?

You're completely missing my point. I'm saying as long as you can control recoil (it's not that hard), aim for any of the 3 rifles are the same. It then all comes down to bullet clip size and damage, in which the AK47 is superior, then the M4A4, then the M4A1.

I understand the economic system is supposed to work like that, but then CTs almost always pick up AKs whenever they kill a T, then it's pointless.
2013-08-17 11:25:38
No... they think it's OP because it has lower recoil, and a silencer.
2013-08-15 23:32:11
I wasn't clear.
People can't control the recoil of the AK47 and M4A4 so they think the silencer with better accuracy is OP.

The smaller bullet clip doesn't compensate at all. It's a worse weapon.
2013-08-16 01:54:55
lol
2013-08-16 04:48:40
accuracy
2013-08-15 13:24:19
silencer plus 1 shot hs?? definitely op
2013-08-15 22:28:17
its as op as ak is,thats the whole point of balance no?
2013-08-15 13:53:58
I dont understand all the people whining about it, even with 20 bullets the gun feels pretty strong. 30 bullets and it would be ridiculously overpowered
2013-08-15 14:22:12
do you think the m4a1 was OP in the previous CS versions when it had an attachable silencer?
2013-08-15 15:10:38
it's not the same fucking weapon though, do u not get it?
2013-08-15 15:56:56
no, it's not but they shouldn't have added another weapon, simply adding a silencer to the m4a4 was way easier.
2013-08-15 16:22:49
they want to see diversity, not just the same weapons being picked over and over again
2013-08-15 18:17:09
ok, diversity, there is diversity right now and I'm fine with it, people use shotguns, duals, autosnipers, etc but the fact is that the silencer was brought back because of our love towards it in the previous CS versions.
2013-08-15 20:20:56
Then it would be the exact same as 1.6 and source. With only 6 guns getting any real use with 1being used only because it was the default (glock)
2013-08-15 20:01:59
#325
In this game a lot more guns are used and it's great but if Valve brings something back from previous game and it's something we liked a lot like the silencer then it should have returned in the way we liked it.
2013-08-15 20:23:37
It adds another layer of strategy to the game.

Ex. If I'm so playing train I'd load out the silencer. If I'm playing dust2 and holding b for my team I need the extra bullets the m4a4 provides

If the silencer came with the usual 30bullets then no one would even use the regular m4. It has a low enough recoil that the extra bullets would be too much.
2013-08-15 21:00:41
well thats why they should have added the silencer to the m4a4, the AK has always had more fire power than the m4a4/m4a1, in exchange for losing even more fire power you got a way easier-controling recoil in the m4a1, that's what they should have done with the m4a4. That's what all the people who wanted the silencer back wanted. Not the addition of an old gun.
2013-08-15 23:19:58
Do you really think that the m4a4 with a silencer, reduced recoil and 30 bullets is balanced? It would reduce already ct sided maps into 15-0or 14-1 halves
2013-08-15 23:31:21
xD
2013-08-15 11:57:03
+1 :D
2013-08-15 13:05:35
:DDD
2013-08-15 15:50:34
i lold
2013-08-15 17:02:44
Someone drop me an ak
2013-08-15 17:10:49
good one
2013-08-15 18:30:40
madmadmadmadmad
2013-08-16 02:53:15
jOELz noob lan dodger haha
2013-08-15 12:49:46
Are you still going for it? Fucking hell... get over it.
2013-08-16 16:01:10
No I cant. Because I am 100% certain that jOELZ used cheats in 2011 CS 1.6 clanbase matches. EAC undetected hacks. I just hate kids who cheat to get their dreams come true.
2013-08-16 16:40:18
rofl
2013-08-16 17:14:39
I'd be thrilled too if I had money coming out of nowhere in my pocket. Fuck off Volvo
2013-08-15 16:46:44
I feel that NIP could have done much more damage at valve office, the game is broken. This makes me think that NIP players do not understand how the game mechanic works. Why would you have to pick a weapon from inventory slot, instead of just pressing B and buying it? Unbelievable
2013-08-15 11:58:10
Did you even read the post? Com'on man..

""Worth mentioning is that todays update has taken a year to finish, and for you critics they are still working on:

" Deagle

" Movement

" In game color and readability

" General pistol balance (Glock in particular atm)"

How about... try making a game and then getting feedback on various things that need to be fixed. But not all of the opinions are the same. How do you satisfy everyone? You can't. Give it time.
2013-08-15 13:11:40
How do you satisfy everyone? Easily. Valve does not listen to the community and thats a fact.
2013-08-15 13:13:04
Define 'community'? Does the person who just joined yesterday deserve for his opinion to be heard as well? "Worth mentioning is that todays update has taken a year to finish" - Which means, they're getting to issues like deagle and movement and all of the other problems you seem to have. Fixing it the way YOU want the game to play, isn't always the best thing for the game.
2013-08-15 13:21:58
Why would they work on this thing in the first place when the community has been asking for certain fixes since beta, last summer? Their priorities are fucked up. Why was deagle not hotfixed, and why was it changed at all in the first place? Its been like that for a decade, why touch something that works? The community was against the changes. Community is the old players that came from 1.6 or source. The game has to be equal to or greater than 1.6 for it to have tournaments equal to or greater than 1.6. So far its not.

Post edited 2013-08-15 13:27:02
2013-08-15 13:23:52
"Did you even read the post? Com'on man..

""Worth mentioning is that todays update has taken a year to finish, and for you critics they are still working on:

" Deagle

" Movement

" In game color and readability

" General pistol balance (Glock in particular atm)"
"

Did you notice the word deagle in there? I did. They don't want this game to be like 1.6 or Source because in their mind it was boring that everyone used the same guns and do you know what, they are right. Just relax and see where it goes. If you don't like it move on.
2013-08-15 14:01:46
I don't think I've ever seen a more pig headed person on this site. And that's saying a lot.
2013-08-15 22:31:25
Because the game need diversity to stay interesting. You people are out of your fucking mind if you think the same formula can be repeated time and time again, with graphic updates to keep a game interesting. It's just not going to happen. The deagle in my opinion, serves a role. It's no lower a weapon you buy as a side arm when you have lots of money. It's a weapon for holding angles and people with precise aim. I get HS daily with that gun and it's super fun to use. I feel like the only people bitching about it right now, are the that are A. Not using it correctly, or B. Using it at wrong ranges. I personally think that the gun should be spammable for the first 2 shots, then the third is complete chaos, and that the accuracy should be slightly improved for long distance. Because I've tried killing AFKers in the head, and still somehow missed.
2013-08-16 01:52:04
So, if they continue this pace going forward. Maybe, we'll have a playable game 2018?
2013-08-15 22:55:34
that wasnt nip´s choice, and yeah f0rest have played cs for about 12 years or more i think he knows how "the game mechanic" works better than the most people :) and again it wasnt nip choice to fix inventory it was valve AND you need that shit to make it bigger for casual players
2013-08-15 13:46:52
your a crying cunt mate. I have only seen your name on this site recently bitching about the exact same thing in different ways. What they did is the best way they could have done it. You know how I know? Because they have spent months deciding how these things should work and they have YEARS of experience making games. You on the other hand are a retard. See the difference?
2013-08-15 16:38:56
If they had years of experience making games then the community would not have to ask valve for certain obvious features.

Post edited 2013-08-15 16:54:14
2013-08-15 16:54:04
People cry as I asking for changes without stating what they want those changes to be.

Valve have to go thru and look at every possibility and decide what's best for everyone. Not just the few vocal retards crying the same thing after every patch
2013-08-15 20:05:31
by: Jonathan E. - HLTV.org
#354
No need to call anyone names. Thank you.
2013-08-16 02:43:02
Paid PR by valve!
2013-08-15 08:02:46
by: Alth
#5
To be fair the M4a1-S is absolutely beautiful. Even with the 20 clip magazine it's just wow, so nice. Only issue is, and it is a big one, the 60 bullets overall is nowhere near enough. Should be 80-100.

Same with the USP but the issue is even worse. USP feels extremely nice one tapping pistol, better than the P250, but it has 36 bullets overall, it just isn't even close to enough.
2013-08-15 08:06:37
Indeed. The new M4 is a pure headshot machine if handled correctly. the 20 clip mag prevents the gun from completely dominating the game, and balances it. I really don't get why so many people are bitching about it.

The USP on the other hand feels weak and inaccurate. But then I haven't tested it enough yet.
2013-08-15 08:44:13
Should have 80 bullets total imo though.
2013-08-15 11:49:36
If I'm not wrong, the 20/40 is just a bug and it is in actuality 20/90.
2013-08-15 12:34:57
You are indeed wrong. NiP confirmed that it should be 20/40 and that the 20/90 is a text bug in the buy menu. I personally think it's hould be 20/60 but whatever.
2013-08-15 13:23:54
Well, fuck me sideways. If that's the case, it's fucking ridiculous.
2013-08-15 13:31:59
"NiP confirmed that it should be 20/40 and that the 20/90 is a text bug in the buy menu."

source?
2013-08-15 15:10:46
20/90.. Are you serious?

So in the last clip you got 10 shots instead of 20. Come on, think for at change ;-)
2013-08-15 15:11:43
Well that's what is showed in the inventory. Look at Famas 25/90, last clip 15? :)
2013-08-15 15:38:49
first bullet i ever fired with the usp, oneshot from inferno banana's car to terrorists start of banana. It's a headshot machine if you ask me. But I agree with the bullets, it's not enough. You spray a mag in a smoke and there you go only two more sprays and you can drop your gun.
2013-08-15 12:58:40
You just have to tap it and then only spray once you hear it hitting someone.
2013-08-16 23:34:50
Yeah. The HS% is absolutely stunning. The fact it only has 20 clip size, is a nice fact. First we were all like "What" Then we were like "So GoUD!"

I can only imagine the insane first kills we will see with that weapon in the future. It is made for peaking. :D

the USP seems... Well, gotta learn it first, but my impressions so far are, that it has good potential, as it can hs/spray kinda 2-3 kills fast, if u have good control. But I like the five seven better for now, though it costs 500. :/

Post edited 2013-08-15 09:23:42
2013-08-15 09:21:26
dude, that is just server settings. ive played 3 gathers so far and all servers include 64 usp and 110 m4 :P
2013-08-15 11:52:17
Read the "NiP talk about their help with the changes" thread on Cadred, and read Fifflarens replies. He says the 20/40 and 12/24 for the m4 and USP are intentional. Seems really stupid imo, unless you literally have THE BEST one tap aim alive you are 100% gonna run out of bullets before the end of the round.
2013-08-15 11:56:30
Thats nice tho, now we get more knife duels in matches.
2013-08-15 12:39:19
From Reddit:

It's a server config problem. If you check the Inventory it says 20/90 for M4A1 and 12/52 for USP but the ammo_* cvars have the wrong values. The correct ones should be:
ammo_357sig_small_max 52 (instead of 24 for the USP)
ammo_556mm_small_max 90 (instead of 40 for the M4A1)
2013-08-15 11:57:37
Can't be 90....? 10 bullets in the last clip?
2013-08-15 15:13:42
From Fifflaren:

"No bug. It will stay as it is. Just that they forgot to change the text.

M4a1 - 20 / 40. Correct.
Usp - 12 / 24. Correct.

The reason for this is that they don't want the weapons being used by all. It should be situational. So now, people have a choice. If you have a play style like say forest The m4a1 will suit you, u won't need more bullets.
If u are a sprayer, then the m4a4 will be more suited for you."
2013-08-15 20:20:11
that's crap, seriously.

No matter what style you have it's nice to be able to randomly shoot thru smokes and when going around corners to prefire. With the new m4a1 you can't do that, whilst playing yesterday I found that out the hard way.

Hope since there is a cvar for it that people will push for that to be used, even 20/60 for the m4a1, which means you have as many clips as with the m4a4, you get 3x reloads with both guns. makes no sense to only get 2 with the m4a1 even if it is supposed to be a situational gun
2013-08-15 20:46:34
It's a bug don't worry, valve is working on it.
2013-08-15 12:14:05
#323
2013-08-15 20:20:20
I think they gave m1 only 20 because of noobs. I'm low and as I noticed people of my lvl or lower don't know what's happening if they are being shot by usp/m1. I could easily get three or four kills because of that.
2013-08-15 12:48:33
thats why NiP isnt asking them for F2P csgo
2013-08-15 08:34:53
by: lepiz
#3
NS
2013-08-15 08:03:31
This is basically the same blog what gtr posted on tv6.se, great read nonethless.
2013-08-15 08:04:18
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#8
yup, but if you read the text (and have read text written by both of them in the past) it's clear that it was written by fiskoo, and get_right simply shared it on tv6. well written regardless, as you said.
2013-08-15 08:08:30
i dont support the logic behind 20 bullets, if you asked them, would you buy m4a4 with the new silencer they would still say yes. also, if you are terror and you ask them about the ak, everyone always buys ak, i dont see the problem with 30 bullets. the gun is really op, nerf it a little and give us m4 plus silencer with 30 bullets!!!

Post edited 2013-08-15 08:27:16
2013-08-15 08:21:29
Yeah, the part about forest and get_right gave it away.
2013-08-15 13:00:06
This is awesome :)

Take a look at this too:
http://steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&a..

Imagine that with f2p...
2013-08-15 08:06:43
what i can see in this graph is : some people logged in to test the new update out for a few hours, were like "yeah okay", then everything went back to normal
2013-08-15 08:45:45
Then you clearly don't understand graphs. CS:GO's peak was much higher already a few hours after the update (many probably didn't have the chance that time, I didn't).

The amount of players at this time (08-11) will of course be less than at its peak, although you can see that percentage-wise there are many more players online now than usually.
2013-08-15 08:53:22
I do understand graphs very well, what I don't really get is your point, the higher number of players than usual can be explained by them testing the new update out, it will go back to normal probably in a few days, so again, what's your point?
2013-08-15 09:28:58
My point was that it went up.
Your post was:
"what i can see in this graph is : some people logged in to test the new update out for a few hours, were like "yeah okay", then everything went back to normal"

Read it again, then read my post, then read what you just wrote in #65. Do that again, then strive to becoming a more sensible person in the future. Thank you :)
2013-08-15 10:10:15
yeah whatever mister obvious.
2013-08-15 10:16:16
It's like comparing the size of the Earth and Sun xd
2013-08-15 12:51:16
Ye lets go compare f2p was p2p xD
2013-08-15 13:41:40
That graph totally shows that 1.6 was the worst game ever right?
2013-08-15 21:36:28
nice hidden path and vavle small steps count
2013-08-15 08:07:01
Hp dont work on the game anymore but i get what you mean:)
2013-08-15 08:12:54
so who works valve?
2013-08-15 08:53:03
Yup just valve :)
2013-08-15 10:26:48
Now you can delete my thread.
2013-08-15 08:08:49
Cool
2013-08-15 08:08:57
Sure they are xD
2013-08-15 08:13:34
Nice sponsor you got there NiP..

NiP.VALVe | GeT_RiGhT
NiP.VALVe | f0rest
NiP.VALVe | Xizt
NiP.VALVe | friberg
NiP.VALVe | Fifflaren
2013-08-15 08:18:18
You just went full retard... Never go full retard.
2013-08-15 08:46:41
hahaha :D:D Tropic Thunder
2013-08-15 10:51:36
didn't u see his name ;d
2013-08-15 11:10:42
we should helppp him :D
2013-08-15 11:37:43
Valve should not just listen one team opinion!!!
2013-08-15 08:22:25
+1
Anyway , "Counter-Strike Evolving" is the right title to describe this new update ...
2013-08-15 09:10:59
Get_rigth, can you please ask them if they could fix the inventory bug? would be kinda nice to actually try the new weapons. but dont tell them i think theyr fucking amateurs. thanks
2013-08-15 08:26:21
The usp and silencer are the most awkwardly implemented additions. For some reason Valve loves making things unnecessarily complicated. Adding a silencer to the current colt was the simplest and BEST idea. Generally speaking simple = best; 1.6 proved that.

Implementing a whole new weapon with a small clip and still a really high rate of fire. I'm sure f0rest and ScreaM will be thrilled. But the rest? You run out of bullets so so so so fast. Feels extremely impractical. It'll be interesting to see how it's used professionally.

And why is the USP being promoted as a silenced weapon? The USP was almost always used un-silenced. It feels so awkward having to un-silence it every single round. It should be un-silenced by default.

Top lel about how USP is a source fan favourite. Pretty sure 1.6ers have been pushing the hardest and loudest. Good indication of how out of touch the developers are.

And lastly, this quote

"Well if we lowered the price to $2900?"

-"Yes then we would too" (Xizt, Fiff)

"Done!, I will go change it straight away"

Is it just me or is this ridiculously haphazard? Surely they could've tossed a few more ideas around and had a bit of a discussion. Boggles the mind on how they spend a YEAR on an update yet put so little thought into it. And I'm not even gonna start on the myriad of other unaddressed and ignored problems the game has.

So, was this worth a year? Nope.
Does Valve have any idea what they're doing? Nope.
Is this ship still sinking? Yes.
Have NiP sold out? Highly likely. It's pretty ridiculous to expect them to give an unbiased opinion when their lively-hood depends on the success of the game. Of course they're gonna talk it up.

Gotta commend Valve on one thing though. Their ability to implement features which generate them revenue is top notch.

Money grubbing incompetents.

Post edited 2013-08-15 08:29:17
2013-08-15 08:27:07
hi friend, weve been waiting for you, youve reached the top of the mountain of wisdom, in this location ignorance and lies will not trouble your sigth and soul anymore. truth shall be your companion till the end of your days. lets hope our other friends joins us soon.
2013-08-15 08:34:02
n1111
2013-08-15 09:23:27
I couldn't agree more overall.

"Have NiP sold out? Highly likely. It's pretty ridiculous to expect them to give an unbiased opinion when their lively-hood depends on the success of the game."

+9999 on this one.
2013-08-15 08:52:10
wait, what?!
You ask Valve to listen to community, and when they listen, you tell the community to be sold out...

And before you ask why I suggest NiP stands for the whole community, please watch some Artosis and Idra SC2 vlogs on balance - the only level at which it matters is the highest pro-level, everything lower than that comes to not-knowing how to play efficiently.
2013-08-15 11:14:06
they might listen to us yeah, nonetheless there's always a "but", "alright we're gonna implement the silencer but...."
2013-08-15 11:16:28
So your`e saying that the game should be developed so the pro players are happy? what about 100 of thousands other players that plays the game. When developing a product, you have to/should listen to feedback from the community, Or else it will never be successfull.
2013-08-16 14:05:30
USP has better recoil with silencer than without it.
But it would be better to make attach/detach FUCKING FASTER.

Agree with making M4A4 with silencer insead of adding another one is better decision.

It's ridiculously stupid to make decisions based on
-"Yes, I would" (Only f0rest).
I think not everyone of us is f0rest and can make 3-4 bullet-frags everytime.
At least there are more than 10 men who consider 20/40 bullets isn't enough but they like silencer/recoil and want to use this gun. But what about 20/50/100 men do not agree with? After asking only f0rest they decided it'll be better for whole community.
Valve is hypocritical bastards.

Post edited 2013-08-15 09:06:58
2013-08-15 08:58:38
m4a1 with 20/40 is a bug, they're gonna extend the mag to 20/90
2013-08-15 11:18:00
its a bug dude chill out :) its gonna be 20/90
2013-08-15 12:57:55
sure, but it also makes less damage with the silencer than without it, thats why no one used it silenced
2013-08-15 15:05:34
How the fuck are they money grubbing lol. Jeesus fucking christ. Whatever you criticize Valve of being suggesting they have gone EA or Blizzard with regards to financing their games is preposterous and is not in keeping with the reality. They kept the game at a low pricepoint, is regularly on sale, implemented Operation Payback of which they took NO cut and have improved the game dramatically since release.

The skins WAS worth the wait. They are aiming to generate more revenue of which a portion is going to fund tournaments. How the fuck is that a bad thing?

There are a lot of people dependent on CS for providing revenue beyond just NIP. Hell, hltv is fucking dependent on a CS scene. I really don't know what you are implying.

The pro community has shown themselves to be incompetent at showing consensus for what shit should be changed to. Look at the various proposed movement values and how differently people respond to each of them.

If valve aren't providing a proper medium to discuss shit, implement your OWN pro-only community forum. PRIORITIZE stuff to be done and keep that discussion transparent so that Valve/rest of CSGO population can SEE what people are discussing and what is important would be the best way of implementing it.

Ultimately I feel that giving a list of stuff that should be changed without showing what it should be changed to, or providing a way to see how popular such changes are, is contributing to the problem. I agree Valve have shown that they are incapable of fixing the game by themselves but rather than beating them over the head with it try and implement a way to HELP them see the issues.

Eh, I feel I just wasted 5 min of my time. Most people here just wanna bash Valve, are incapable of seeing the greater issues and even when an update hits that potentially allows for new and bigger tournaments still don't grasp the implication of such stuff. Thats why CSGO will never really grow. As I wind down my time I spend gaming, I just take CSGO as it is - a fun game with friends but I don't pretend its gonna be much more than that.

Post edited 2013-08-15 09:02:07
2013-08-15 08:59:47
of course valve are money grubbing, they are a for profit company, they will always be souless money grubbers. They only release updates because they see potential to gain money from it. I hate it, but I love cs.

My biggest question is do valve have a dedicated dev team to csgo and who are the people updating this game? I think there is immense evidence to suggest that valve are inept at providing pro level updates to this game.

The vast majority of changes we want arguably require the very least amount of thought and ability to implement. It things like the deagle, the pistol balance, competitive maps, 128 tick, mm bomb timer. Many of these I could fix myself if valve allowed me.

Its that shit which emphasises how ridiculous the decision making process is in the csgo dev team.
2013-08-15 11:54:16
Yeah, you're completely right that valve are allowed to make a profit. But to what extent are they going to take this? When it starts to impact on gameplay then it's gonna be a problem. I don't wanna play CS:GO version TF2.

Also, the main reason I brought it up was to draw a comparison between how quickly they implemented things that generate profit and how slowly they have implemented game changes. They got their revenue raising shit in lightning quick, while we're still sitting here with a broken dgl glock movement etcetc.

And no the pro community is not incompetent at all dude, you're fucking insane. When pro players talk about what's lacking in the game there are very common themes which they all identify. Valve just ignores them or listens but implements it in a way that's completely wrong. See post #50 and #64 for more.

Basically, I wouldn't give a shit if Valve made millions of dollars off this game so long as they FIXED it. It's just very frustrating when they're turning it into a casual cash cow. I love cs and I've played it for over 10 years, and it saddens me to see valve sticking their casual cock down it's throat and ruining it.

Post edited 2013-08-15 12:51:27
2013-08-15 12:49:14
exactly my thoughts.
2013-08-15 23:21:24
Valve just made it again to screw another simple thing up. Their steps are just not real and understandable and the logic is a logic of ameteurs, but we keep on playing, what else should we do, investing time in cs since years to pick the fruits one day.

they should have rather increase the amount off bullets for usp and m4a1-s over night.

60 bullest are faster jizzed than you can count to three.

But maybe i will face entlightement through the pro scene cause they gotta handle everything the same way we have to do.

i see it positive as i can and i like the update in general, but some decisions are just not wisely implemented.

today i will play it non stop and for real and after this day i will look at the over all result and my gathered experience with the m4a1-s and usp. ^^

Post edited 2013-08-15 08:36:13
2013-08-15 08:29:32
imho i like 20 bullets it is perfect for the passive players and if you want to spray and pray then pick the other m4. it will give such edge finally to defending bomb sites...
2013-08-15 08:36:58
i am not talking about the clip brother, i am talking about the overall amount of only 60 bullest.

20/80 or 20/100 would have been nice.

i mean the m4a4 has 120 Bullets to offer.

Post edited 2013-08-15 08:49:03
2013-08-15 08:42:55
yea i understand man but tbh it is doable in my opinion you cant just randomly pre-fire like we are use to we need to think about and be wise when it comes to shooting random bullets and 80 bullets over all thats 16 bullets on each person thats do able :D
2013-08-15 09:06:23
I've read that it says 20/90 in the buymenu and 12/52 for the USP.

I also read that it is a simple server command restricting the amount of bullets in the gun, so it should go up to 20/90 and 12/52 as soon as they fix commands.
2013-08-15 11:05:15
its a bug it will be 20/90
2013-08-15 12:58:17
tldr version

valve asks questions to NiP

they reply with yes and no
2013-08-15 08:33:22
you probably shouldnt do a TL:DR version when you havent read the thing yourself
2013-08-15 13:58:46
That shows how casually Valve made these decisions and what they want to do is just to offer more weapon buying options.Thanks to Nip,we don't get a m4a1-s cost $3100 now.
2013-08-15 08:36:19
I swear the first comment i read on every article is n111111 or something to that effect.
2013-08-15 08:36:40
They should have stuck to 30 rounds per clip...its an awesome gun...20 buulets/clip and 60 bullets in total is way too less...
2013-08-15 08:42:02
it would be stronger than AK with 30 bullets..
2013-08-15 15:06:15
I mean one is clear. we first gotta try it out alot more days cause we guys like to jump on early conclusions but we will see.

I understand that 60 Bullets are enough to defend a spot and the upcoming t-attack and if you are still alive after a attack you can pick up a fallen brothers weapon or the enemy weapon but 60 bullest just feel a bit castrated.

I mean one aspect is kinda cool that you have to be careful with your few 60 bullets and you could see it as a tactical aspect given to the game.

but theory and praxis is a different thing and we really have to see how it works out.

Post edited 2013-08-15 08:52:23
2013-08-15 08:48:05
The opinion shared by two pro players were crucial for the changes made in CS:GO! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH

and that fucking crash-to-desktop bug in WinXP FFS PLS FIX
2013-08-15 08:48:40
hehe you don't making jokes of this holy news or?

shame on you brother. cheers bro. XD
2013-08-15 08:50:27
in a little way, i meant it! :P
2013-08-15 09:54:41
ok people let's make a compromise here: 25 bullets in a clip, 50 on the side, 75 total!
2013-08-15 08:50:32
30/90 = 120...
2013-08-15 08:58:40
but that's no compromise!
2013-08-15 09:01:33
120-90 = 30

30 / 10 = 3

half life 3 confirmed.
2013-08-15 09:55:06
Dunno why but I actually lol'd :DD
2013-08-15 10:04:51
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA omg idk why i laugh so hard with theses jokes about hf3
2013-08-15 10:33:22
I never understod the big 'hype' around the silencer. The point of having a silencer in previous versions of cs was that people didnt instantly know where you were shooting from. Right now you have laser-things coming out of your gun, so it's pretty obvious what your position is. That, and the fact that some people claimed they had better recoil-control (wich i personally believe came from the fact that those people spent 10x more hours playing with the silencer then without).

Less bullets encourages better aiming doesnt it? If you have less bullets to take people down, you will probably stop wasda-spraying at everyone you meet. I think this is fantastic, as my biggest problem with the game is how noob-friendly it is right now.
I get that people expected the silencer with 30 bullets, but let's face it, they are trying to make CS into a viable competitive game again and that requires some changes. Look at the numbers playing Dota2/LoL, that is what they are aiming for
2013-08-15 08:53:28
"they are trying to make CS into a viable competitive game again."

so instead of going with what has proven to work and please people for 14 years they try to re-invent cs.

at this point i can't even wrap my head around how fucking dumb that entire dev team is.


"ya, don't add the silencer to the m4, add a second gun, and give them less bullets" -the secretary in the hall

it takes a special kind of ego to think that you know better than a community of people that have been playing this game for 14 years.





Post edited 2013-08-15 09:07:31
2013-08-15 09:07:16
Pretty much. You can definitely tell they are trying to add their own 'touch' to the game.

It's akin to an amateur painter taking a professional painters canvas and painting over it with shit.

Post edited 2013-08-15 09:26:28
2013-08-15 09:26:00
I think the point was that if normal m4 would've got the silencer & 30 bullets everyone would use it as CT. It would be easily the best gun in the game as well.

Now that it has a deficency people are going to buy different guns and the gameplay gets more versatile and interesting. Some people who don't spray a lot will probably want to use silenced m4 and others will probably stick to normal m4. It doesn't have to be just like it was before, the devs want to make the game better and I think they're doing amazing job at it. But its true that the new m4 should have more clips.
2013-08-15 09:29:23
interesting for who?

does valve think cs lasted 14 years by pure luck? cs was already interesting without this dumb shit that valve things belongs in this game.

this isn't CoD, variety is not cs.
2013-08-15 10:04:50
I think these updates will get more _new_ players and helps cs:go grow
2013-08-15 10:15:51
No. It'll do the opposite. Make a shit game that rejects the cs fanatics and doesn't even appeal to new blood. They're failing on all fronts.
2013-08-15 12:40:27
well expected this from hater, well go play whatever you play and stay away from here
2013-08-15 13:00:44
Just because I critic the game doesn't make me a hater nor does it make my opinion invalid. I've been playing the game for over 10 years and I have a pretty good idea what CS is and what made CS great.

I literally don't understand you people who defend valve's terrible decisions. It's like you enjoy eating shit and don't want to stop. The game is dying buddy. It certainly isn't attracting new blood and it's pushing away old school players who love cs, like me.

Post edited 2013-08-15 13:12:39
2013-08-15 13:11:17
Nope, In my opinion there is nothing bad on this update expect 20/40 , it should be more.
2013-08-15 13:13:47
I guess cs lasted 14 yrs because it was designed well. The fact that CSGO is different doesnt mean it's not designed well.
2013-08-15 11:20:00
no, but the fact that 99% of the community hates it and does nothing but bash cs:go/Valve means it's not designed well.

even if Valve doesn't wanna listen to the community, they should take notes from Starcraft 2 and Dota 2 devs. those guys aren't morons and realized that keeping the game very similar is a smart idea.
2013-08-15 11:52:21
Actually many of the dota2 devs are working on CSGO as well, are they still idiots?

99% of the users hate CSGO? Sure man.

I've barely even played CSGO and I like it 10x more than 1.6.
2013-08-15 12:55:54
Play it 200 hours more and you will get bored.
2013-08-15 13:41:07
Might be, only one way to find out
2013-08-15 14:36:47
get bored because u suck at it?
2013-08-17 03:33:38
at the beginning it felt so shit ;) but now i LOOOOOOOVE IT
2013-08-19 11:46:21
It was interesting before with no other games matching it, but it is not fucking 2004 anymore.
2013-08-15 12:47:12
Different times, not compareable. Nowadays you need stuff like that to attract players, the same tricks that worked for 1.6 are not necessarily good for CSGO
2013-08-15 12:53:58
It was luck, timing is everything.
2013-08-16 23:51:31
They wont attract many players by just remaking cs once again. They tried that with source, and it clearly just split the community instead.
The number of players playing cs has decreased a lot the last 7(?) years, so they pretty much have to re-invent the game, or else i think FPS in general is going to be outnumbered by Dota2 for instance. We saw this already when 1.6 got dropped from big tournaments a while back, and we cant reject the fact that they want viewer. So if dota has 1mill+ more 'noobs' watching then that's what the sponsors are gonna pour money into.
I get that the people already playing CS would love for it to be the way they are used to, but we gotta accept that the way cs is NOW is never gonna get many new players.

People call the developers retarded/dumb for not 'sticking with what is working', but i think everyone can agree that some of the changes they have made are pretty good. They are trying to increase the tactical elements of the game by adding more options.
Let's say this is like SC2. Sure, original starcraft is the best there is, but the players dont mope around the fact that they developers try to add new units to make it more exciting for the viewers/different strats to evolve. It's a different game, but you can also see the fundemental difference in the mentality of the players playing it.
2013-08-15 10:59:09
The reason it split the community is because source wasn't even close to 1.6.

Wanna know the recipe that would've made GO a hit? Make 1.6 with improved graphics. The only reason 1.6 started fading out is because the graphics weren't good and it looked ugly. It didn't attract sponsors etc.

But game play wise - 1.6 was fucking perfect.
2013-08-15 13:16:19
Remaking 1.6 would make it a success in your eyes. 1.6 was dying because of a combination of lack of sponsors and lack of new blood coming into the scene. We've been watching the same 30 people in the proscene for 7 years.
2013-08-15 20:11:09
what do you mean source wasn't even close to 1.6? Source had more players playing it the last 5 years or so. Ofc, source had an insane amount of public-players, but that is what a game needs to bring new players to the scene.

Remaking 1.6 would have been a waste of money tbh. 1.6 had a good run, but esports is evolving and the mechanics of 1.6 simply wasn't entertaining enough for the majority of game-enthusiasts.

And no, im not saying 1.6 was bad, im just saying it would have died within 3 years if a new game didnt come along. FPS as a competitive game in general probably would
2013-08-16 11:30:09
silenced guns dont have "tracer-bullets"... hf
2013-08-15 11:21:55
I dont understand how can they be thrilled about this update?I mean look at all the other things in csgo..they need to be fixed ASAP
2013-08-15 08:55:31
The dialogue is funny as hell. This means Valve make conclusions based on 3 people.

How easily decisions are made..

2,9k $ ? OK!
CHANGING IT NOW!
2013-08-15 08:56:13
for the first time in a long time, Valve has made an update that i personally think can bring new players and bring back old players into the game. did u guys see matchmaming yesterday? it was insane, how many people were playing/searching. now we only need a proper ranked system, f2p and majors in csgo for it to become huge. at least imo. the new skin packs is great for casual gamers, and some serius gamers may like it to. i like the new knife :D. great idea with the new inventory system. this might ad a new aspect to competitive play, at least if they ad some more weapons to swap with. people then would have to optimize their loadout :D. i would be nice to see weapon bans in the future, instead og fx. champion bans in lol.
2013-08-15 08:59:31
I honestly wish more people thought like you. The cynicism here is fucking awful. And most of the time it's unfounded and based on assumptions without any thought.
2013-08-15 09:30:00
ty, and you are totally right :D
2013-08-15 09:45:05
20/60 2900$
30/90 3100$
lol
2013-08-15 09:06:54
*20/40
2013-08-15 09:08:16
this will most probably be fixed as it seems like a bug.
2013-08-15 09:09:13
Bug was in buymenu: it said you have 20/90 but after buying it you get 20/40.
But this bug was fixed. Now you have 20/40 in buymenu and get the same in-game.

Post edited 2013-08-15 09:11:59
2013-08-15 09:11:18
that is just

fucking

lame
2013-08-15 14:52:24
ammo is too expensive lol
2013-08-15 09:14:09
the most tactical update in the history of the game.

2013-08-15 09:08:28
ROFL
i am cried xD
2013-08-15 10:32:29
nip players should be ashamed 1 fucking year or partnership and nothing did realy imporove gamepla ywise,valve;first of all fuck you then we might need some mouvment changes,a recoil fix would also be nice but most importantly,you have to give a big fuck about the community that's keeping the game alive until despite its shit.
2013-08-15 09:11:13
sick
2013-08-15 09:14:01
by: rvT
#59
But why we have to chose between M4A1-S or M4A4; p2000 or USP. I would like to play both of them, without choosing which, every time in my main menu "backpack".

P.S. Oh and WTF??
M4A1-S: 20/40
USP: 12/24

Post edited 2013-08-15 09:17:42
2013-08-15 09:15:42
You can switch just press ESC then Inventory
2013-08-15 13:12:33
by: rvT
#238
Oh, thanks :) But still, it would be easier if both of the M4's were in buymenu.
2013-08-15 15:09:00
30 bullets, anything other is fucking lame, sorry for the flame but bad job nip jesus
2013-08-15 09:19:47
Valve are fucking idios and NiP also if they didn't know how to respond to that question
"Well if it had 30 rounds would that make all of you buy that weapon every round?"
-"Yes!"
"Ok, there is your reason"
OK OK But you must give as a reason to buy m4a4 without silencer also like higher damage and better acuracy on long rong while the m4a1 with silencer has better recoil control on close range etc just like previous versions of cs thats balance not 20 fucking bullets.

Post edited 2013-08-15 09:30:55
2013-08-15 09:29:23
fucking lurppis did not meniton this:
Worth mentioning is that todays update has taken a year to finish, and for you critics they are still working on:

Deagle
Movement
In game color and readability
General pistol balance (Glock in particular atm)


again hate-news from him, displaying csgo only in a bad shape

Post edited 2013-08-15 09:33:24
2013-08-15 09:32:20
It's a year in and the pistols are broken, it's hardly worth shouting about that you are "working" on it.
2013-08-15 10:25:44
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#98
i can't copy the entire blog from nip site, but there you go ;]

Post edited 2013-08-15 10:57:43
2013-08-15 10:49:53
You could make this news SOFTER for haters but you did not do. You specially choosed thing that makes people angry, i mean how valve makes changes in balance. Do you see someone is discussing what valve is working on? NO
you such a hater, hate all the time, mb you should try to decrease your butthurt of dying 1.6?

You should just mentioned what i copypaste and news would be ok

Post edited 2013-08-15 12:16:34
2013-08-15 12:14:00
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#151
this news isn't about valve plans to do, it's about nip's visit to valve's hq.

you're the only one who is butthurt here.
2013-08-15 12:20:44
o rly? its news about nip's blog and information you added later is much more important coz people are waiting for fixs of pistols/movement for a fucking long
2013-08-15 14:29:58
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#225
that would be more important if the news was about cs:go updates or valve's plans for cs:go, but it's about fiskoo's blog. it's obvious valve are working on those things, they just take 92342374823 years to get anything done, as evidenced by fiskoo saying it took them a year to get this update out.
2013-08-15 14:38:40
its not obvious coz people did not have this fact before this blog, its very critical information, coz people whining about it for a while
2013-08-15 15:51:54
patheticcccccccccc
2013-08-15 09:51:53
That's because f0rest just oneshots people in the head, he doesn't need more then 20 rounds
2013-08-15 09:55:44
ScreaM needs 10 bullets for 1 round
2013-08-15 10:16:19
don't even try..
2013-08-15 15:54:35
there are 5 opponents, so i think 5 for 1 round? :d
2013-08-15 16:40:21
m4a1 needs 2 hs hits :/
2013-08-16 08:03:48
from close distance, not :)
2013-08-16 11:07:16
aighty
2013-08-16 12:15:56
because he is dead before he can fire the rest
2013-08-15 19:05:53
It's highly unlikely that they will be buying too much in real games.
But we can't know for sure, so let's wait.
To me it looks like the m4a1 would be used very seldomly, most likely it won't be a lot of people's choice in normal gunrounds but in forced buy rounds.
2013-08-15 09:58:13
Valve hq: lets invite those NiP kids here, and say a couple stupid things to impress them so they make the community love us. Infact lets pretend to lower the price of this new gun so it looks like we are listening to their feedback and actually making changes because of it.

Losing respect for NiP, they need to get out of valves ass and stop pretending to be the end all of the CS community, they are too easily impressed by little gimmicks. Send lurpiss next time



Post edited 2013-08-15 10:07:58
2013-08-15 10:07:27
Yeah because its NiPs fault, lets bland them for not wanting exactly what you want. I see who's the kid here, do you?
2013-08-15 10:42:43
Thats a nice constructive counter argument, thanks for that.

If you don't have the brain cells to come up with a legitimate argument, please don't just call me a kid, that's something a child would do ;)

Also, if you are opted as the Voice of the CS community, you have a responsibility to act, and not just orgasm at Valves tiny little PR gimmicks. Nothing against NiP, Valve really should be asking a larger portion of people before making changes. Changing the price of the gun because Friberg and Xizt said they would buy the gun if it was cheaper, before they even had chance to play with it? That's just bollocks quite frankly, why aren't they doing big community wide polls to get that info?
2013-08-15 14:31:58
And the community can have different opinions? Just because you and the most of the community don't like it doesn't mean NiP players doesn't and they don't really go there representing the community.

And I'm not saying they did a good job helping Valve either.

Btw didn't really read your text.

Post edited 2013-08-15 15:47:25
2013-08-15 15:46:29
Actually i would love to see Valve getting lurppis feedback, i think he knows the cs community better than NiP.
2013-08-15 13:13:42
they should have asked this:

"you guys want a normal gun with silencer or you want 2 diffrent guns and the one with silencer got only 20 bullets"

i dont understand why they overcomplicate things like this. rest of the changes is good.there is so much potencial in this game but they have to stop make things which have no rationality at all.
2013-08-15 10:18:00
that's why you are not a dev
2013-08-15 11:13:38
Valve once said they feel like CS:GO is CT favored. So I guess they had the fear that giving the existing M4A4 a silencer would make CT side overpowered. You get a strong weapon with 30 bullets + silencer which makes it more accurate.
Having the M4A1-S with only 20 rounds forces you to play different you cant just prefire like hell or try to bang like hell or spray like hell.

What I am interested in is how this will get into competitive. Given the fact that you have to chose your weapon in advance and the M4A1-S costs less I feel that every team gets like 1 or max 2 players that get to/have to play this weapon.
2013-08-15 11:18:58
Why would a silencer have to make it.mote acurate?

Put silencer on m4a4, make it slightly less powerfull/accurate. TAADAAA :) Its not like ct was overpowered in 1.6 :) You could wallbang witj silenver to mask ur shots and hear the dinks, look under/through smokes, hell u could even hold an angle properly back in zhe days.

Peakers advantage, 1 hit headshotting AK, OP smokes... I would say T is OP now ;)
2013-08-16 14:02:58
It's cute to read little kids thinking it's 1 team's fault that they couldn't get exactly what they wanted xD
2013-08-15 10:19:06
Just the stupid community as always. Every update is just pure hatred. I dont get why they even come to this website anymore they already established to themselves that the game is shit but they keep returning to say the same boring thing.
2013-08-15 10:41:38
NiP always playing update before other teams, that's why they got always such an advantage, that's lame.
2013-08-15 10:33:38
It's fine, although I would have preferred just a 30 bullet M4A1-S at $3100.

But this loadout thing I really dislike. I don't want to constantly change my "inventory" to get another gun...
2013-08-15 10:51:07
so... they make decisions based on a 5 person focus group. LOL
2013-08-15 10:54:22
M4 look like a plastic toy
2013-08-15 10:59:20
There was nothing wrong with how it was in 1.6 (imo) - The game was balanced on 1.6. CT's had silencers and T's had cheaper, more powerful Rifle? That's a good balance, especially considering the game is of two halves anyway!

Post edited 2013-08-15 11:04:30
2013-08-15 11:04:05
yes but its not 1.6. go play 1.6 if you want your appreciation of pperfect
2013-08-15 12:57:01
Sell out wankaaaas
2013-08-15 11:05:59
Great update. I just wish I didn't have to go to the inventory thing to swap the m4a1 and M4A4... I guess i'll deal with it
2013-08-15 11:15:03
There is an option, a command for us to use so u can adjust the clip quantity. i played with 20/90 all night on our own server. Have to say, its not so op when u have 20 bullets but its nice not to run out of bullets after 10 seconds. Overall great update.
2013-08-15 11:17:56
What bugs is that GtR,even though he is the master of lurking and sneak attacks and he would be favoured by the silencer more that any other NiP player,didn't choose it over the old one even with the lowered price!
I guess i won't buy GO yet,still waiting for a good game.
2013-08-15 11:28:13
by: lurppis - HLTV.org
#152
get_right is a sprayer - for him it's more beneficial to use the m4a4 thanks to its larger clip size. furthermore, lurking is a bigger deal on the terrorist side, not so much as a counter-terrorist.
2013-08-15 12:23:42
Yes,but i saw him often sneaking behind terrorists when defending,a silencer could be more usefull than a larger clip size(my opinion).He certainly have the skill to kill 2-3 opponents(from behind) with 20 bullets.I repeat,my opinion only!

Post edited 2013-08-15 13:34:57
2013-08-15 13:34:25
gtr is lurking on T side on ct he owns everybody face2face and he needs 30bullets :)
2013-08-15 12:36:07
lol did they have to make a new m4? wouldnt it have been easier to just add the silencer to the already existing m4a4? silenced m4 wasnt OP in 1.6 and sauce...
2013-08-15 11:30:22
lol NiP bunch of brown nosing get paid by valve this bald guy fister "thrilled"

valve: Oh you want full girlfriend?

fister: yes now

velve: i slept with her first

fister: oh im so thrilled

fucking morons
2013-08-15 11:38:38
hahah
2013-08-15 11:39:27
hahaha
2013-08-15 13:37:52
'Counter-Strike evolving...'
bitch please
2013-08-15 11:39:04
gl AmErIcA AhAhAhA
2013-08-15 11:41:45
the 20 clip mag is not a problem , but you have to do like 20/90 or something. cuz now you cant shoot anywhere unless its an enemy there. i mean like you cant spamm through a smoke unless your 100% theres a hit.
2013-08-15 11:43:26
This blog basically proves that valve will listen to 4-5 people who agree with them and ignore thousands upon thousands of others who all agree on something different.
2013-08-15 11:52:56
It proves how much valve doesn't understand e-sport. They keep f... changing rules all the time and don't care that people spent 5 years and more developing skills. All this talking about amateur being competitive is just stupid. New players have to learn to become better, simple. I play this game a lot and I have great kills. But what is important for me: unpredictable, stupid movement (hit doesn't slow), etc.. is not being addressed
2013-08-15 12:02:07
by: Striker - HLTV.org
#317
Tell that to LoL/DotA players. They get updates that change a lot of champions every month or even more often.
2013-08-15 19:54:10
I really care what NiP fiskoo has to say on the matter, everything is okay now.
2013-08-15 12:08:34
The amount of British shitposting itt is rly embarrassing.
2013-08-15 12:18:42
+1
2013-08-15 13:29:46
true dat
2013-08-15 15:52:18
why are you embarrassed? makes you even more pathetic that you care
2013-08-15 18:23:19
The annoying thing about patches like this is that there are some good things, but they end up masking the bad things (especially when its stuff that appeals to the simple mentality of the majority, aka "yay skins!!!!121121!!"). Sure I really like the feel of using the new M4, and the skins and shit are pretty fun, but little things like the 20 bullet solution and the whole philosophy behind it are pretty annoying.

When it comes to balancing weapons and gameplay there's always so many angles you can take, and it's always push and pull (you have to sacrifice things here, add things there, etc). Yes, the 20 bullet thing adds a limitation to the m4a1, providing a balance of sorts. But what of the alternatives? I mean for a start, the m4a4 with a silencer would have been less powerful than this new m4a1, with its easy recoil and high accuracy. Wouldn't that have been a more logical and much simpler solution lol? But as evidenced by the NiP interview, I don't think these devs, or even most people tbh, think about things from all angles, instead of just a few. How often guns are bought is far from the be all end all of game balance when it comes down to it, and yet it appears they'll doggedly chase it without considering all the other consequences? It just doesn't seem very well thought out.

The deagle and glock changes in the past were a perfect example of that, the whole "herp derp people not buying dese guns let's buff them in some random ill-considered way". It's like they're thinking heaps about how often people buy the guns but then being lazy as fuck when it comes to considering *why* they don't buy them, lol. The very fact some of the excessive changes with those guns happened in the first place shows how little some of these devs understand the game. That'd be fine if they didn't then go and think they always know what's best for the game, and only do it right after they learn from doing it wrong first lol.

But anyway I'm not surprised.

Post edited 2013-08-15 12:30:53
2013-08-15 12:28:28
"Biggest problems with changing movement and pistol balance is that different opinions always clash."

Is there someone who thinks glock shouldn't be nerfed? or is there someone who thinks movement shouldn't be (more) 1.6-like? I doubt it. Or if there is, they have no idea about CS
2013-08-15 12:46:54
wasn't get_right saying movement is fine? There you go..already 1 pro not wanting a change.
2013-08-15 12:48:44
And aslong as someone thinks in the way valve does, they wont probably change anything.
2013-08-15 14:57:59
The glock should actually have a bleed DoT too, say 12hp per second? Make the defuse kit $1000, we are in hard times, afterall.
2013-08-15 12:50:25
Can someone please explain to me why they didn't listen to the players in the first place? lol
2013-08-15 12:51:10
The problem for me is not to aim for a kill with 20 bullets. That's mostly manageable.

For me, personally, the problem is, that after loads of years I kind of knew by heart how many bullets I have left in my gun. I knew I was shooting for a while so it is time to reload, without even looking. Now I have to constantly check the magazine, only to find out what I am supposed to do next. Reload? Go for the frag with what's left? Spam those last few bullets to the wall? Nah, I have only 40 bullet's left, can't spam...

This bugs me the most :(
2013-08-15 12:53:39
that's a new game with a new sets of skills needed ;)
2013-08-15 13:03:01
Not in this case, actually.

I have no problem learning recoil, movement and maps again. But the magazine size was one of the few skills that was entirely transferable. Now it is not and I have to get used to it again :/
2013-08-15 13:30:28
You still can use the old m4.
2013-08-15 14:44:06
meh, it feels funny :)
2013-08-15 15:58:52
that's WHY i said it's a new set of skills you need to LEARN not transfer even tho it should be pretty easy to get used to it !
2013-08-15 14:58:33
I know it's not a show-stopper, it's just bothering me, because I was finally getting used to all the new stuff :))
2013-08-15 15:58:33
all those complaining about the 20 mag clip size are fkn low sprayers gtfo and learn to aim.

good update nuff said seeya nerds
2013-08-15 12:59:13
"Biggest problems with changing movement and pistol balance is that different opinions always clash."

I love how they can use that statement to explain their inability or unwillingness to change a key aspect of the game, but before they included a completely new weapon that will undoubtedly change the game drastically they asked ONE player (f0rest).

Awesome.
2013-08-15 13:00:05
Ask from 1000 and get 100 different answers , then choose what u will do
2013-08-15 13:05:49
You really distort reality if you make it seem like it was f0rest and f0rest alone who was behind this update being implemented .. x.x
2013-08-15 13:18:05
u should practise your reading skills for sure...
2013-08-15 13:34:56
Hahaha so true


I love that email where they explain some guy who suggested new movement values that everyone who plays GO needs to agree with that first, but then they change the whole game without asking anyone.

Post edited 2013-08-15 16:43:36
2013-08-15 16:43:09
great update valve , keep up the good work !
2013-08-15 13:10:35
I would rather have the M4A1-S nerfed abit and added 30 rounds.
2013-08-15 13:20:59
+1
2013-08-15 13:36:55
ITT: Everyone are experts in game development.
2013-08-15 13:33:02
Don't forget that NiP is a bunch of money grabbin people who only try to make this game better for them ;)

That's what this thread taught me :D
2013-08-15 13:49:53
some delusional kids out there for sure.
2013-08-15 15:00:03
n11
2013-08-15 13:37:13
20/40 really valve? REALLY?
2013-08-15 13:43:12
"Well if it had 30 rounds would that make all of you buy that weapon every round?"
So valve knows people would just buy silenced m4 all the time(which is fine and not boring),and they dont want to enable it.Guess what buying only ak/m4 was never boring.Why?Because that was such a small part of the game,emphasizing variety of weapons killed that brutal economy 1.6 had,and that is one of many reasons csgo is less skilled,there is just less things to worry about.Having said that its cool that silencer is finally here and i have the feeling they will make some changes soon with its magazine.
2013-08-15 13:51:58
To bad they release the update when 90% of the game is bugged. There are bugs everywhere.
2013-08-15 13:53:04
like a boss
2013-08-15 13:56:15
hopefully valve dont read the crap that the users on this site post about them
2013-08-15 14:01:03
why? they wouldnt give a shit anyway...they dont care what the community says or thinks...
2013-08-15 14:12:21
+1
2013-08-15 15:22:40
#sellouts
2013-08-15 14:12:21
So they did it in this manner because people only bought m4 & ak. Now after this update they'll only buy m4/m4s and ak.

Wow that really opened up the game and changed everything. Seems a rather hollow justification to be honest.
2013-08-15 14:21:22
after reading some comments i conclude that the community does not know what it wants.
2013-08-15 14:40:39
its called having opinions.
2013-08-15 15:08:24
well the community cant decide on specific things and the game will never be tailored to each player.
2013-08-15 15:38:48
you cant please the whole community you should be aware of that.
2013-08-15 15:39:22
thats why they cant settle on what they want from the game durrrrrrrrrr
2013-08-15 15:40:31
thats why valve should have started from the beginning to balance shit out and let the kids talk. But now if you change something there is always a counter part in the community saying NOOO stop it was fine before the update and another part which exactly wanted such a change and then another part saying useless! focus on the parts like deagle or awp and so on.


Problem even though is there are enough people that want such chanes as in lets say the deagle but valve doesnt seem to bother. Better make DLC's :D

Post edited 2013-08-15 15:45:29
2013-08-15 15:42:37
Oh my gawd so good update?? Though why not just make silencer removable since you won't use it anyway sometimes...
2013-08-15 14:44:13
It is removable, both on new M4A1 and USP
2013-08-15 15:23:53
then why is there still m4a4 ingame and why is m4a1 with 20/40 ?!?!?!?!?!
2013-08-15 15:36:40
because of the creator of m4a4... they don't want to hurt his feelings!
2013-08-15 16:28:05
Well there was no m4a4 in CS previous versions so why should there be now? Same for P2000
2013-08-15 16:36:18
if cs1 was In 2D would you like go to be in 2D aswell ?
2013-08-15 18:26:58
Any point of this ? I just seem to wonder why add 2 different weapons to CT side...
2013-08-15 18:47:33
interesting how they didnt mention fixing the shitty awp, i wonder why

Post edited 2013-08-15 14:58:06
2013-08-15 14:56:20
because it's fine
2013-08-15 15:25:15
maybe its because awp is not shitty, but you are shitty with it
2013-08-15 16:46:37
his comment might aswell be sarcastic looking at the fools saying "oh my god 20 bullets?!!! how am i supposed to spray?"
2013-08-16 11:18:58
Oh jesus
2013-08-15 15:07:48
hilarious
2013-08-15 15:20:57
How unserious..as unserious as the cs community is...it consist of 50k 14-17 year old kid's.
2013-08-15 15:31:35
You need to stay away from this site if you want hope for the CS community, HLTV is the premier site for tournament coverage and game information but the entire community here is vocal and vociferous mongoloids who use wooden PCs with Windows XP and IE6 to play cs 1.6
2013-08-15 15:41:02
you guys really run out of arguements since 2012
when cs:go was released

Post edited 2013-08-15 15:44:14
2013-08-15 15:43:56
"you guys"

I'm not affiliated with anyone in any camp, I just have enough wisdom to look beyond my own biases (even if I am using common insults for the less mentally developed on this site, but that's because provocation is the first move of the pawn on the chessboard).
2013-08-15 16:25:29
wow hi i look so smart here trying to use something that i define as ''big words''
wow
so cool
wow so smart
2013-08-15 20:56:19
There is not a single big word in there. 0/10- you fail.

Post edited 2013-08-15 21:09:37
2013-08-15 21:09:25
dude you're a fucking spastic.
2013-08-15 22:21:45
k.
2013-08-16 08:02:46
I've heard that having a superiority complex is unhealthy for you.
2013-08-16 18:02:42

Nigguh I'ain't part of any gang in here. Meh just know mah shizzle enaff to have my own state of mind ya dig it? And aggressivity ain't nothing but weakness. Peace

but seriously licho nicely said tho. He didn't try to sound smart, he used the appropriate words to describe how he feels about this community. A wise choice of words is never bad and using "big words" doesn't make a point less dumb when it is. This one isn't.

Post edited 2013-08-15 23:50:33
2013-08-15 23:49:35
you are really smart, so smart you didnt notice the sarcasm
2013-08-16 01:16:07
:)
2013-08-16 08:03:02
how does the ie version matter?
2013-08-15 15:51:40
Its tragic really. Working at valve on csgo, knowing anything you do will be brutally torn apart by a community who think they hold the holy grail to fps domination.

They'd be better off deleting all versions of cs and telling this community to fuck themselves.
2013-08-15 15:46:47
So true
2013-08-15 15:49:24
I think If the update was something like this people wouldn't be moaning:
Movement update
Deagle update
Glock nerf
Auto snipe nerf

Let's be honest valve have done a shitty job at working on this game thus far.

2013-08-15 15:56:07
Some people will always hate a game. That doesnt give them the right to blindly abuse anyone who likes it and constantly demand change.

The deagle is actually pretty decent, the p2000 is damn accurate if you dont suck at aiming and the autosnipe.. learn to adapt to some new variatiom in a game, it's not overpowered. Movement is an opinion and one mainly held by 1.6 fans, I dont see any problem with it, other than the peaking issues which frustrate me sometimes.

If those things were updated by valve, no doubt people would say they've updated it wrong, because everyone loves a good moan.
2013-08-15 16:23:44
Nah, I disagree - what's tragic is Valve's updates.

If I could tell the developers what to do, and they did it - I can guarantee the competitive community would be happy.
2013-08-15 16:50:58
I heard trolling makes your hair fall out :O
2013-08-15 17:18:53
I ain't trolling!!!!!

and my hairs actually growing back now i'm in a surplus, VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2013-08-15 17:41:06
I've always championed Valve (and got a lot of abuse for it in the past) but this update left me hugely underwhelmed.
2013-08-16 15:44:21
I'm surprised they didn't do it yet.
2013-08-17 00:26:32
Best team in the world thinks highly of CSGO and DEV's. Think about that you whiny noobs.
2013-08-15 15:55:24
so valve prefer 20 crappy weapons instead of 2 good ones? O.o
2013-08-15 16:22:40
damn you kids whine about everything it's both pathetic and hilarious
2013-08-15 16:37:38
+1
2013-08-16 11:28:02
I don't see why they should work on the glock now that the CT's have the USP
2013-08-15 16:37:56
Not sure why people are bitching. The m4a1-s is beneficial to a certain type of player ( one that tap aims more than sprays )...If you are not that type of player and get mad when the clip runs out too soon, I am sorry but that is not Valves fail, that is your fail.
2013-08-15 16:47:46
+1
2013-08-15 17:43:24
apart from the fact that many other players who may not fit that style want to use the m4a1 with silencer....
2013-08-15 18:34:35
It's too bad that everybody didn't reach professional level in this game like f0rest did.
2013-08-15 20:25:44
next news, call of duty modern warfare 4 replaces CS:GO in ESWC, Dreamhack and Xperia Games.

after...

NiP swaps to COD: MW 4!
2013-08-15 17:17:38
nah they will just be thrilled that cod is in eswc. blame nip for bad game, valve listening to these idiots because they get pay
2013-08-15 18:35:27
The E-Sports event of your choice and the creator of the contents in the E-Sports Case will divide the income.

We in theory are possible to create our own major then ^_^

If so which
2013-08-15 17:19:02
hope we don't have to wait too long for those changes
2013-08-15 17:25:55
New M4A1-S is so bad, that I would rather stick with default version of the gun. Looking at the tips which describes the gun, there is a line which says that new M4A1-S is much accurate then original one, well I can disagree with that as it's much inaccurate at long ranges then the original one, it's only affective at medium/close range.

In my opinion valve haven't added anything useful to the game.
2013-08-15 17:48:57
Well you might be the kind of player who is aggressively facing opponents, but for my playstyle the A1 is very convenient :)
2013-08-15 18:30:43
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Valve are trowing dust in your eyes.
CS:GO is half-dead game with the speed known and unknown team disband there wont be anything left by the end of next year.

Good job valve making a complete joke of the best team FPS game out there, turning it to a shadow of it's former self aka this pile of crap that brain dead people praise so much while the truth is it is a complete garbage and unless the foundations of 1.5-1.6 are returned to the game it will never have even a remote success.

Go put some more money in moba's because its quite obvious that is where all of your money are going to now days, ever since the release of dota 2 beta everything started to go downhill for CS.




Post edited 2013-08-15 18:14:41
2013-08-15 18:14:18
Very interesting, I'm hoping the international slowed down this update because 1 year to push this is pretty slow.

Looking forward to the future updates and hope they get pushed sooner.
2013-08-15 18:20:08
Am I seriously reading HLTV trolls calling NiP "shills", "sellouts", and "retards"? What?

This update was great and it added variety to the game. I think the new m4 is awesome, even with a 20 bullet clip. The gun is clearly designed around tapping, which many of us were asking for. I think it should have 60 bullets in reserve instead of 40, but we'll probably see that change soon. The USP is awesome too, but also needs 48 bullets in reserve.

The skins and crate drops are new and exciting--a breath of fresh air that this game needed.

some of you guys need to take a deep breath, calm down, and open your mind. The game is currently the most fun it's been since march-april 2012 of the beta
2013-08-15 18:23:39
+1
2013-08-15 18:31:58
agree

should be to #305

Post edited 2013-08-15 20:12:10
2013-08-15 20:11:24
+1
2013-08-15 22:26:55
Well put m4a1 with the same price of the m4a4 so... it's so obviouse how to not fuck it up... but valve try to always have genius ideas about everything that they discard the obvious part of the things.
2013-08-15 19:02:45
Great! Make the game Nip want it to be...

LIsten to the community, not nip pls
2013-08-15 19:17:40
" Deagle
" Movement
" In game color and readability
" General pistol balance (Glock in particular atm)
"Biggest problems with changing movement and pistol balance is that different opinions always clash."
-------------
IZI
Deagle-less damage more acc
Movement-accelerate 5,friction 4
IN game color-?Whats wrong with color?
General pistol balance-less glock,more acc for usp
END
CMON,IT'S not so hard.

Post edited 2013-08-15 19:27:13
2013-08-15 19:24:37
it is a nice update but the movement update has to come soon.
20 rounds on m4a1-s is logic but why only 2 clips when every other weapons have at least 3 clips :/ on the m4/ak you have 120 rounds and only 60 with m4a1-s... same for usp (btw much better without silencer)only 36 rounds when the glock has 120! that is kreuazy :-(
2013-08-15 19:58:27
Only 8 guys work on CSGO or it's just a part of the csgo staff at Valve ?
2013-08-15 21:08:06
Valve doesn't have "set" people dedicated on games, they do what they feel like to as they see fit afaik.
2013-08-15 22:07:33
If I did an update for cs go and the community responded to me like this one does I would not choose to keep working on it then if i had the choice.
2013-08-15 23:54:33
Kinda why 1.6 and Source weren't updated at all.
2013-08-16 09:32:22
Then dont make fucking changes nobody wants....

Its not that hard, we clearly state what we want and they just ignore or do something along the lines, but fuck up anyhow ;)
2013-08-16 13:36:03
nobody means you?
2013-08-16 16:20:03
Name 10 people who wanted another different m4 with silencer that has 20/40 bullets ;)


Cheers retard, dont try to win this argument cuz u just wont
2013-08-16 17:00:35
why would I even try? with random guy on the internet? :)
It's impossible.

get a life bro :]
2013-08-16 18:41:49
Madcuzbraindead?
2013-08-16 19:33:52
n1 valve :D
deagle & mouvement change soon, fast fast
2013-08-15 21:26:35
who da fuck cares...
2013-08-15 23:00:53
I wonder if anyone prefers that kinda m4 in real life =D
2013-08-15 23:24:17
What I love is all the hate for the developer.
They want changes, and improvements, and ALL sorts of things, and Valve in the mean time is trying to innovate a game, where the fan base is a bunch of whining babies, who cry rape when they release an update and add 2 new guns, and with one of them reduce the ammo capacity by 10 rounds, granted you shouldn't need those 10 rounds because the gun is really accurate and comes with a detachable silencer.
Rather than bitch and moan, we should actually support Valve, if you think they're trying to ruin the game on purpose you guys need to get on or off whatever meds you are or aren't taking.
Sure I know they're working on movement and that could be fixed soon, and the net code can be fixed very shortly; but it's not a 5 second fix, and an update. If they fix one thing, they could break another; and the way some people have been complaining about the servers, you can see, just by releasing new guns and new features the servers are breaking. Be patient or go back to 1.6/Source.
2013-08-15 23:37:46
So sad to see the HLTV kids bashing both NiP and the developers for delivering changes that's both balanced and a breath of fresh air to the gameplay. Great work Valve!
2013-08-16 02:59:50
+1
2013-08-16 16:19:10
I just don't understand why more pro's aren't in the valve office disccusing things about game. NiP VIP or wtf ? if you wanna pedal this game faster get more people and more minds to talk about game. get more info, easier to what and how to fix. Instead we get a pic of NiP playing in Valve office. FFS
2013-08-16 03:34:55
Perhaps because it costs teams/Valve to fly teams over for discussions.

Through skype NiP have been in contact with Valve, unsure on other teams, they originally had a "pro feedback forum", but hasn't since been used.
2013-08-16 09:33:39
So everyone is supposed to play CS:GO because "Nip is thrilled"? Next thing we will hear is f0rest likes boys so we should all "GO" gay.
2013-08-16 11:39:07
This is good news.. At least valve is working on the issues stated by the masses.

It will soon become evident how the feed backs will end up.


2013-08-16 11:39:32
Then NIP is absolutly retaded :)
2013-08-16 13:29:31
absolutely*

Better luck next time Forest
2013-08-17 01:03:27
now they need to fuck up the ak as well, because people also buy it every round as T
2013-08-16 13:40:40
Well you did point out a flaw in the Valve logic there considering that is really THE weapon you want as Terrorist. Wouldn't be surprised though if Valve introduces even more weapons (altough I wouldn't like that).

This is a really interesting post by NiP though as it gives us some insight on why valves makes these decisions. I'd really love to read or see an indepth interview with Valve on their philosophy behind CS:GO and how they want to further develop the game. I believe this could really help the community aswell where a lot of people have a hard time to understand their decisions.


When I first read about the new weapon and then the clipsize I felt disappointed. Now, after playing couple of hours, I don't think this was such a bad update at all. The m4a1-s is a decent weapon and I agree on the 20 bullets. Perhaps 25 would give you a bit more headroom, but 30 is to much IMO.

Played a pug yesterday and on some maps where CT's can hide easily its sometimes damn difficult to locate them. Im sure that 10 more bullets and this accuracy with simple recoil super silence would make it too strong.

The only real problem I see is the way the m4a1/m4a4 loadout works. You HAVE to choose pre-game and stick with that. That in my opinion really sucks. During a competative game I want to be able to pick all weapons that are avalible (considering CT/T side and money ofcourse).
2013-08-16 16:43:21
30 bullets may be too much for the current version of the M4A1 to not be overpowered, but why didn't they just engineer the gun to be worse in other aspects? Spraying with the silenced M4 was the most favoured shooting technique of thousands of players for years, and even if I can accept them introducing the silencer with a whole new gun instead of just adding it for the M4A4 and even to some degree understand their reasoning behind doing so, it just seems like they are methodically trying to do the exact opposite of what constituted CS in the past. It feels like their ego gets in the way of actually improving the game, because by for example simply adding the silencer for the M4A4, they would likewise admit that they were simply wrong about not adding it in the first place. Or by taking away what made CS so popular in the past it's as if they wanted to prove how modern they are, and how they have revolutionising ideas for the game and are innovative. But guess what, people that demand the deagle to be more like it used to, or an effectively sprayable silenced M4, or a consistent AWP or more freedom of movement are not stuck in the past, they simply are not forcing "innovative" ideas onto a genre that CS had prior to GO pretty much conquered and perfected already.

Some of the stuff VALVe is trying with GO gameplay-wise I accept and some others I even grew fond of (more viable weapons or the grenade placement), and esport-wise this update shows that they're finally interested in at least somewhat financially helping the game grow, and as this blog mentioned, they are still working on gameplay-related stuff the community wants and as it seems they are tweaking some things without mention�ng it aswell (after this update, the bunnyhopping mechanics have definitely changed positively). I see potential in this game and the development process, there are enjoyable features to it that feel reminiscent of what made 1.6 as enjoyable and are at the same time unique aswell. But on the other hand, numbers don't lie. VALVe should realise that their approach failed massively, not because the current community is "bitchy" about the game, but because the current community is patheticly small. A company as big as VALVe should realise that something has to be wrong with a game when there are still four times the players playing a version of the game 10 years older. I mean, there is so much financial potential for the company in the CS merchandise, with this big opportunity, I wonder when they will finally reconsider at least some parts of their concept with GO.

http://www.hltv.org/?pageid=18&threadid=426948..



Post edited 2013-08-17 00:59:17
2013-08-17 00:57:07
Well I agree with you that Valve definetly seems to take a diffirent direction than they did with CS 1.6. This is exactly the reason why I would love to read an in-depth interview with Valve on their vision for CS:GO.

I am hoping that their decision making isnt just based on what you describe as ego. I would love to hear them explain their thoughtprocess.

In the other post you linked there are some good points aswell (I liked the cs1.6 death animations better too). However just like you there are many things in CS:GO I had to accustom too in the beginning, but really like them now (too late to elaborate on those).

Last thing I want to metion for now. The reason why CS:GO doesn't have a large community might not have so much to do with the game at all.

Every time a new COD or BF comes out, I somehow know about it. They invest a shitload of money in promoting their games. I personally didn't see any advertising on CS:GO. I bet there is a shitload of young gamers that never heard of CSGO and play CoD every day.

Thats my rambling for now, time to sleep;)!
2013-08-17 02:44:10
Thanks for reading both my "blop" posts.

Fine, let's for a second forget about if and to what degree VALVe's developer teams' "ego" plays into their approach to GO. There are more problems. I've recently watched Thorin's interview with Artosis. There it is made quite clear that all the gameplay changes and balance tweaks within Starcraft are done solely with the conditions of the very top of competition in mind. As Artosis rightly states, it would be ridiculous to even try and look at other levels of play to improve the game's balance and playability. VALVe on the other hand concentrate on the casual community way too much, even though probably more than half of the players playing the game do to some degree all have a competitive appeal. They use "heat maps", "global statistics" from their servers and "indicators" from the matchmaking servers (that btw. do due to the 64 tickrate not resemble usual GO gameplay). Now the best players in the world are running around with P90s and dual barettas, mis-throw grenades daily, glock-rush each T pistol round, ADAD-spray their main rifles and have to put up with inconsistencies within weapons like the deagle or AWP because some matchmaking kid decides to buy a deagle in the pistol round and randomly aces or because most of the time, when 14 year old absolute strangers play together, they will struggle to get rounds on the more strat-heavy T sides, etc. They seriously have to stop throwing "global statistics" and "heat maps" in the faces of professionals and knowledgable people that suggest stuff like maybe making the maps wider or maybe considering to do something about the pistol round dynamics.

Another aspect of their approach from the start was to create a more realistic game. This goes too deep gameplay-wise to talk about it here without ending up creating another blop, but it does also affect the "feel" of the game in terms of layout, HUD, sound and so on. The game is designed to be, look and sound more realistic. But people amp up their saturation settings because otherwise the game looks like a war setting - all these shades of brown and grey. When flashes go off, you feel like you're in a war setting again. The weapons sound realistic, have echoes to them and so forth. But the appealing thing about 1.6 was that it had an arcade game aesthetic to it and was as goofy. The HUD was flashy and distincively seperated from the in-game design, with shiny bright colors, whereas in GO the HUD is in a smooth sepia and designed to blend in with the game's aesthetic. The weapon and model animations and sounds in 1.6 weren't realistic or smooth at all (the goofily big bullet flying out of the AWP, the AWP sounded as if thunder had struck, how the gun models reacted to full-on spraying, the cartoonish sound of the hysterically big flashbangs, the pop-up when you killed someone, the headshot animation, etc.). These things stuck with you though, you had a very unique feeling to playing the game and not only generally, but each and every move or weapon had an unqiue feel to it due to the peculiar sounds and animations. What was considered as bugs, flaws and bad coding by outsiders is what constituted the unique playing experience of CS.

In GO, everything just kind of blends in together and nothing sticks out enough to really get stuck with you. Now again, these are just general trends I see within the game's approach - I don't find it to be that bad, there are unique and satisfying features to this "realistic" approach, and some of the more goofy 1.6-y elements have been kept and are as I mentioned in my previous post reminiscent of the unmistakable CS playing experience.

About the size of the community nothaving all that much to do with the game(play) itself: There could be an argument made for a lack of promotional work by VALVe, but as I stated - the CS community is rather large with hundreds of thousands of people still playing one of the three versions regularly. 1.6 and Source players do know about GO. They do not switch because they like the old versions better. Of course there are other reasons for them not switching aswell, such as performance issues (which could also be helped by the developers though) or because they surf or play mods and stuff, but the main reason can only be that GO doesn't convince them to be a natural successor of either 1.6 or Source.



Post edited 2013-08-17 03:59:02
2013-08-17 03:51:16
I really share many of your opinions on CS:GO. The part where you elobarate on the arcade game feel of 1.6 is spot on. There were many goofy things in CS 1.6 that made it such a lovable game.

I wonder though if the new generation of gamers would still appreciate these goofy parts of 1.6, if they would start playing CS today. The shooters to which CS is competing today are so different than in CS1.6 time. Sure back then we had the first verions of COD and BF1942, but these games have evolved game experience wise too in the past years.

Besides that, I also think its really hard to get passed the feelings you have towards the favorite game you played for so many years. I can hardly imagine to like a game again as much as I liked 1.6. But I bet thats mainly due to my nostalgic feelings to the game.

There are still plenty people playing CS1.6 and CSS. I don't have any real experience with CSS, but in the 1.6 community, I think there are players that will rather quit instead of changing to a different game. Even in that time there were many people complaining about game changes and new elements going from 1.3 > 1.5 > 1.6. Back then though it was: you go with it or you quit. Because after a while Valve would just deactive the authentification server (it was called WON right?) of the older version.

Answering this: "GO doesn't convince them to be a natural successor of either 1.6 or Source."

What would it take to convince all 1.6 players?
What would it take to convince all source players?
Is it possible to satisfy those both segments in one game?

No one knows the answer to that.
When I read the changelog of the last update I was really skeptical, to put it mildly. Actually I was raging on the inside: WTF VALVE NEW M4, 20 BULLETS, ALSKJA:LSDJASL:.

10 hours playing after the update, what are my thoughts?
Skins are awesome.
M4A1S (its a good weapon, 20/60 bullets would be perfect for me)

Only thing I still really dislike is the fact you need to choose pre-game is m4 of m4s.
Other than that I enjoy the game even more than before the update.

From my own behavior and from what I read. I think most of us are biased as fuck. Most of us think that the cs 1.6 approach was perfect. But back then I never asked myself why don't we have 2 colts? I just took the game as it was, never even questioning if it made sens or not. And I think many players didnt do that either.

1.6 has flaws, CS:GO has flaws and both games could still use many improvements. I guess judging which game is more "logical" actually depends more on your own frame of reference than anything else.

In your defence, CS:GO doesnt have the same player numbers as 1.6 had. But I think we should compare with all the other online shooters of today. What is currently the most populair online shooter? I can't find the answer on google. But:

1. BF3
2. TF2
3. CS:GO
(Valve and www.gamestat.co.uk, not sure if reliable source)

I can't find about other free2play shooters. As far as I can judge, online competative FPS overall isn't nearly as populair as it used to be. And from that perspective CS:GO isn't doing such a terrible job.

Post edited 2013-08-19 11:33:45
2013-08-19 11:31:12
Plenty of good points to comment on - I had a huge post typed out in response to you and I don't know if there's a limit to HLTV.org's user posts, but somehow when I hit the reply button, nothing came out. Unfortunately I hadn't copied it; all is lost. I really think it would have made my standpoint very clear, however, maybe it is for the best not to end up with another pile of text. What it basically came down to is this: Everything that your pointing at is implying people (or me specifically) believe 1.6 to be the perfect game, better, more "logical" or whatever than GO. But all I am saying is that 1.6 is where the roots of CS lie and that it is necessary for GO not only to "convince" 1.6 or Source players to be a "natural" successor of their game in the literal sense of "having naturally grown from its roots", but also to get new players to pick it up and stay with it, because nowadays that there are as many alternatives, if there ever was a time for CS to need some of its unique features to be successful, that time is now where it otherwise is just "another shooter" - and a graphically inferior one at that.
To make it at least somewhat clearer without going into the lengths of the lost post, here are the parts where I quoted myself presenting my point of view:

"[...] and even if I can accept them introducing the silencer with a whole new gun instead of just adding it for the M4A4 and even to some degree understand their reasoning behind doing so, it just seems like they are methodically trying to do the exact opposite of what constituted CS in the past.", "I'm O. K. with the development team trying to modernise CS and go different directions with it, but does that necessarily have to mean taking away what made CS so popular in the first place?"

I also used your M4A4/M4A1 example to highlight this by stating that I am not against the idea of considering adding a new gun to the weapon pool, and am not somebody to use "because it wasn't that way in 1.6" as an argument, because I also want to look at these thing as unbiasedly as possible and consider why for example there couldn't have been another version of the M4 in 1.6. But what I can't understand is why they, by reducing the clip size, effectively decided for the silenced M4 to not be used like it was used to be anymore. What is the reason to introduce the silencer for GO in the first place when what always made this feature so attractive to players is not? Especially considering how it doesn't have any impact on the gameplay in GO, certainly not to the extent it had in 1.6.

To end this and to not sound as opposing to what you said, I want to mention that I had also gone into detail on the more positive things there are to talk about and had built in the things that you said into my argumentation because there definitely are things I agree with (such as GO doing considerably well and the impossibility of objectively judging the quality of a game, especially in terms of gameplay). It's just that those points I never really said anything against. Again, I don't want GO to "go back to the roots", but to be designed so that it is at least noticeable where its roots are.



Post edited 2013-08-20 08:23:29
2013-08-20 08:21:26
Always a big shame when you typed up a nice piece of text and it gets lost due to a glitch. Happened to me on multiple occasions on different forums, very frustrating and a pitty too, because I would have liked to read it.

Again some interesting points on which I like to comment.

"But what I can't understand is why they, by reducing the clip size, effectively decided for the silenced M4 to not be used like it was used to be anymore.... etc"

Just speculating here but, I think the reasons for valve to add the silencer back in the game in its current m4a1s:

Basically, Valve wanted more weapon variation. The community wanted a silenced m4. They probably saw a great opportunity there to combine both. They wanted to distant the gun character from the m4a4. Valve did this by making it more accurate, very silent and to balance gave it less bullits.

Perhaps I am overlooking something but to me the reason to use m4 silencer in 1.6 was:
- Harder to locate wallbangs for opponent - useless in CS:GO as there are not many wallbangs
- Ability to stealh attack enemy - this it got even better at as to my ears the silencer is more silent than in 1.6.

So im keen to hear your point of view why the silencer was so important in 1.6 (besides the wallbanging). I didn't find the little different recoil (and decreased damage) an attractive reason to use the silencer that much. Only in the situations stated above I saw added value.

What im also interested in is to what m4a1s characteristics Valve could/should have given the silenced m4 in your opinion? Less accurate, more bullets or just 30 bullets and higher price?


You rightly point out that CS:GO should have some unique features to stand out from CoD, BF etc. and I agree it for sure ain't going to be the graphics :P. For me the roots to CS 1.6 are still there: weapons, the maps, competative play, no iron sight, importance of money system.

Recently I discovered there are bunnyhop and surf servers again, I guess this kind of movement things are not possible in BF3/CoD?

Maybe what I still feel as roots is for you just as you described "reminiscent of CS 1.6".

I know you have been describing many parts of CS:GO that could use improvement, but it would be interesting to define and summarize in this conversation what gameplay elements (lets skip the other factors for now) need change according to our opinions to:

"CS:GO to become a natural successor for CS1.6 and Source players. While clearly differentating from other (competative) online shooters, creating the most satisfying FPS experience and have the largest world-wide FPS playerbase"

My shortlist:
- Deagle changes, I find that weapon to be the only really unpleasant weapon to use in the game.
- More satisfying death animations, especially headshot (more arcade like, the current headshot animation just doesnt give me as much of a kick)
- Brighter ingame colours
- slightly decreased jump penalty (really feel like a bag of potatoes sometimes, and you cant fastpeak by jumping or tapping crouch button like in 1.6. Could also state ability to fastpeak with adad around corner)
- Tagging, when players are being hit they should get a movement penalty. In the current format we perhaps have aimpunch, but that is not so noticable when you have armor.

Post edited 2013-08-20 10:51:56
2013-08-20 10:50:15
Very frustrating indeed, didn't feel motivated at all to even go ahead and type something out after that and that's also maybe why you didn't understand all of my points from that post. But seeing as we are getting less and less horizontal space for our posts, we might want to continue this conversation using the private messaging system before it gets ridiculous, haha.

However, to quickly touch up on some of the things you mentioned:

Yes, a larger pool of viable weapons to choose from is indeed the reason for VALVe introducing the silencer with a seperate rifle. That's what they said at least - they think players would find it boring otherwise. However, I have like I stated no problem with them going different directions with it, and maybe for a game to be successful today you need that whole customization and personalization stuff that all the big boys in the industries offer, but what I do have a problem with is that they took away from the silenced M4 what made it so attractive for people in the first place (spraying, which is now not effectively possible).

As for the use of the silencer in 1.6, not only was it harder for an opponent to avoid a wallbang from a silenced M4, but it was also easier for the person wallbanging to know if they were hitting something. On top of that, sound tracing was far more prevalent in 1.6, so the difference between a silenced and a non-silenced M4 actually made a difference in that aspect (not only because it was simply harder to make out where or if there's an opponent there, but because you could also use the silencer to create the illusion of there being more players than there really are. For example, wallbang into dark from B on dust2 unsilenced, then go down mid and spam the double doors silenced to create the illusion of a standard 3-1-1 when you are really stacking A). You could also spray into smokes without people running into them noticing. Using the silencer was also a tactical decision to make considering how the damage output was lower on far ranges, but higher on low ranges.

There was a thread comparing the new and the old M4, but as I understand, the M4A1-S now practically is a silenced M4A4, just with 10 bullets less and a bit cheaper. Both do the same damage, have nonnotable RangeModifier differences, the recoil pattern is the exact same without the silencer (with the silencer it's still the same pattern, the backpunch is just weaker, as in the bullets land slightly below the ones of an unsilenced one) and the drawing and realoading shemes are exactly the same. So, why no just add the silencer for the M4A4 and decrease the backpunch and damage output on ranges? Especially considering that for a good reason nobody is using the new M4 unsilenced, what was the actual purpose of introducing a whole new gun for the silencer feature? However, those are questions I am not really eager to have answers to. I am admittedly rather happy to see the M4A1 back in the game, and am not against an alternative version of the M4 being available. So, I'd tweak it by making it the same prize the M4A4 is, giving it an alternate spraying spattern and a 30 bullet clip and decreasing the damage output when silenced.

Yes, the CS fundamentals in terms of gameplay are still roughly there, and although it heavily lacks finesse in regards to that, what I meant primarily with GO "forgetting" its roots was the "feel" of the game and the stuff that I was talking about in terms of how the variety of features created an unique playing experience.

I think exchanging our "wishlists" and thoughts about them via PM will be more interesting. ;)
2013-08-20 20:17:40
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting
but reading all those cooments i wonder when
1) 1pixel6 tryhards will understand that they are not "the community"
2) random ppl who state things like "communtity needs other things" will also understand that their opinion isnt the opinion of community
2013-08-18 14:53:05

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