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Valve hints at TI for CS:GO
Time: 2014-07-14 15:43
Game: Counter-Strike: Global Offensive

Valve chief Erik Johnson has admitted that CS:GO could have an event as big as The International in the future. 

The fourth edition of The International is currently taking place at KeyArena, in Seattle, with the biggest prize purse in the history of eSports - $10,7 million, raised by fans - up for grabs in this Dota 2 tournament.

With CS:GO's numbers increasing every month, many have been asking Valve to organise a similar event for this game, and Erik Johnson acknowledges that community response to The International "is something that is going to be pretty difficult to ignore for any game team".

"I don’t know if it would be called The International, but the guys working on Counter-Strike made a lot of progress on supporting the professional community around that game," he told Prodota.ru

"We all work at the same company and share a lot of ideas, and given how successful this tournament [The International] has become I don’t see any reason why a lot of the same things couldn't be applied directly to Counter-Strike."

In recent months, Valve has supported two different tournaments - DreamHack Winter and EMS One Katowice -, and the company will also be supporting the upcoming ESL One Cologne event, which will take place from August 14th to 17th.

2014-07-14 15:44:16
2014-07-14 15:49:35
2014-07-15 01:23:58
you've gotten that wrong. should be "n1"
2014-07-14 16:18:48

Post edited 2014-07-14 16:53:20
2014-07-14 16:53:13
It's fine, he is #4.
2014-07-15 11:17:41
If someone interested there is the interview

2:24 Morf-designer asked the question and Erik Johnson answered to it.

Post edited 2014-07-14 16:57:36
2014-07-14 16:56:21
nice x2 :D
2014-07-14 18:38:27
2014-07-14 15:44:42
2014-07-14 15:44:45
2014-07-14 15:44:50
2014-07-14 15:45:31
Valve <3
2014-07-14 15:45:45
Despite that..they got 40 milions in pocket just from compendiums, while prize is "only" 10.7m.
2014-07-15 00:51:46
Its the biggest esports prize in history and youre still complaining lol...
2014-07-15 04:09:53
Should I appreciate that ? Yes I should and I do. But should we ignore fact how money they are getting in their pockets (beside all expensives) ? No we shouldnt.

If someone gives you 5000$ for PC - For some reason you dont have paypal etc, so that person need to send money on your friend paypal (which you cant contact in person). Then you ask for a PC from that money and he buy you PC for 2000$ you are going to be happy right (pc which can handle everything) ? Should you forget about other 3000$ and be happy or you are gonna atleast notice that ?

Post edited 2014-07-15 19:55:48
2014-07-15 19:53:59
Imagine how much of that money was used to organize the tournament + the initial 1.6m that they funded. Also, you should think about the first two internationals where they didn't sell any compendiums. Where also they had to organize the tournament and fund the prize pool.. Don't be that narrow-headed
2014-07-15 09:19:42
What about market ? Dont justify what are they doing because we all know how Valve works. Maybe they are providing good tournaments but they are getting much much money then what they should. Don't be that deceivable. After all tournament wasnt 40m for sure.
2014-07-15 10:48:12
"They got 40M and ONLY put 10.7M as prize money"

Do you have ANY idea how much money this tournament costs to HOST? Were talking flights, hotels & food for the players AND casters. Venue hire, Production... The list goes on and on. Stop being retarded for one second.
2014-07-15 13:53:31
Not 40m for sure. Start thinking for one second. I'm not talking with you so whats your point here ? Casters are MAYBE get payed but if you dont know anything about Dota 2 then dont talk ok ? They are honored at first place to be there. 40 milions is way to more then what they needed.
2014-07-15 19:49:26
Fuck.. Valve is a business. And you know what is the main goal of a business? I hate to break it to you but it is - PROFIT. You should be thankful that Valve is community driven and that it supports, takes suggestions from the community. I don't really think you would find any other big corporation that would care about the people that surround them. AND if you will throw out an argument that "OMG you so deceivable, u no udnerstand that they make mooneys from community ololololo", don't. I clearly understand that. But i am happy that they do it while letting the community participate in the growth, not only of the company, but the games themselves.
2014-07-15 16:45:44
They are doing everything beside taking suggestions. You dont need to type here long replies since I'm in gaming industry more then you and I know how everything works. You can be happy, I'm happy - Who said that I'm not ? But dont be brainwashed. Valve is getting more profit then what they should and YOU beside most other people doesnt even realize.

Count how many items are sold on DAILY base, and if you ever sold/bought from market you know that they are getting percentage in their pockets for nothing. There are over 10,000,000 items sold during one day. Cheapest price to sell item is 0.03 (where they get 0.02 and you only 0.01). So do your math.

If you really want to argue about this we can do math about TI4 aswel.

Post edited 2014-07-15 19:51:26
2014-07-15 19:47:53
Maybe valve are going to put that excess into a csgo tourny
2014-07-16 02:46:56
Ok, now i'd like to hear about your "time in the gaming industry". I can't see proof. I can start talking about how much i am in the business industry.
And please don't talk about the market, i surely know how much does it cost to sell an item on their market. You're just assuming that i'm a 2-week steam use. You shouldn't.
2014-07-16 08:38:37
You are assuming same. I'm not gonna prove anything on hltv.org, its enough that I know where I stand in gaming industry. I'm not talking about esport only but overall. And I'm not gonna arguing about those stuff in public neither. If you really wanna talk you can PM me for more info.

Leaving info/contacts or even "proof" in troll communities (which I'm not saying that this is the only one) is not smart. Also starting discussion about this neither but sometimes people need to pay attention and beside appreciation still be aware of what is happening around.

Post edited 2014-07-16 12:43:47
2014-07-16 12:40:55
Even though our positions might be different about Valve, i really appreciate this comment +1 sir.
2014-07-16 15:14:08
You know lots I'm sure.

Can you name any other company giving even 5m of their profits to a prizepool? or 2? How about 1? I can only think of one other company, which according to it's users and developers makes more than Valve.

They are selling a product with which they promise they'll make tons of new content for. Tons of stretch-goals and awards for buying it. It's a good way to make people support prizepools and such. Without those awards I doubt they'd get even 1/10th of that prizepool even if 100% of the money went to the international.

Post edited 2014-07-16 21:21:32
2014-07-16 21:12:16
If company gives 5m of their profits for prizepool, sell product for with which they promise they'll make tons of new content for, tons of stretch-goals and awards for buying it doesnt means that they need to get 40m only from compendiums/tournament. Even if was only 20m, still be aware. We share same opinion though, but dont be naive.

Post edited 2014-07-18 18:00:28
2014-07-18 17:59:27
2014-07-14 15:46:09
i know that if you bought some item in dota2, some money would go to the tournament. what is that item? what advantage it gives to the players?
2014-07-14 15:46:11
It was the compedium and valve would unlock more features such as solo mid MM for the commmunity.
2014-07-14 15:48:30
wasnt it "compendium" ?
2014-07-14 15:48:47
Valve should sell skins instead of the members.
2014-07-15 00:05:03
The item is the Compendium.

All the info you need about it: http://www.dota2.com/international/compendium/?l=e..
2014-07-14 15:50:30
i see. thank you all for the info.
2014-07-14 15:56:00
No problem. ^^
2014-07-14 15:58:06
I hope if this happens in csgo the compendium would be like 0.5 mil and they add tuscan. In that case many people would buy it :)
2014-07-14 19:43:24
It gives you 0 advantage over others who doesn't have it. Just custom effects and such..
2014-07-14 15:52:36
Just like skins in cs :D So maybe they could add nade skins or C4 skins or something like that
2014-07-14 20:14:29
Compendium and Compendium points.
2014-07-14 17:25:45
betterest news from today
2014-07-14 15:46:17
2014-07-14 15:57:44
2014-07-14 16:49:46
2014-07-14 15:46:17
expected, "get ticket" will finally be put to use?
2014-07-14 15:48:02
he said they could not that they would i will believe it when i see it.
2014-07-14 15:48:53
Hopefully no de_overpass and de_cobble in the tournament if it takes place
2014-07-14 15:49:15
And +tuscan, please!
2014-07-14 15:51:53
I want overpass because GuardiaN <3
2014-07-14 16:04:57
blind fanboy
2014-07-14 18:38:08
oh im sorry im being a fanboy, im so sorry please dont kill me :(
2014-07-14 18:43:00
its hard for me but i won't kill u can go :/
2014-07-14 18:54:01
thanks :(
2014-07-14 19:04:27
Don't get your hopes up. If you see the whole interview you would know he just answered the question vaguely but you could understand that from his tone that nothing of the sort is in the pipelines .
2014-07-14 15:51:14
Valve already gets a lot of money from cases and keys. I don't think it will ever happen.
2014-07-14 15:55:38
They get a shit tonne from skins/items/cases with DotA2 aswell.
They won't be sat in an office discussing this and saying "No guys, we have enough money".
If there is a chance for profit, they will do it. And judging from this years international, I imagine many games will try take this approach.
2014-07-14 17:39:57
its not about that, you either have 4-6 tournaments with 250k prizepot or u have one BIG tournament, but whats the point cause games boring for the other 11 months of the year )))
2014-07-14 17:59:58
You know that there are other tournaments for DOTA aside from international too? Common misconception
2014-07-14 18:53:24
2014-07-14 21:39:35
Im pretty sure valve gets more money from dota 2 then cs go
2014-07-14 21:37:11
Of course they do. Dota 2 community is 3x bigger than GO's.
2014-07-14 21:39:09
Exactly my point if they make more money off of dota and do it for dota they would do the same for cs go
2014-07-15 03:20:38
They would, but will they? I don't know and don't think so, at least, not a tournament as big as The International. For me, this interview says nothing at all.

And in my opinion, if they do something like TI, they should do it in parts. Not a big tournament as TI, but divide the prize with smaller tournaments.

i.e. 1M = 4 tournaments with 250k.

They already organized tournaments with 250k. So, they should organize more. I'm pretty sure it would be better than only one tournament.

Post edited 2014-07-15 13:14:53
2014-07-15 13:13:11
Will they is the question and i highly doubt it would just be $1m because they would do what they did with dota they would crowd fund.

Post edited 2014-07-15 17:51:42
2014-07-15 17:47:36
1M was just an example.
2014-07-15 18:20:46
Was about to comment this. Vague is the correct word
2014-07-14 17:07:38
great but change mappool
- cobble
- overpass
+ season / tuscan
2014-07-14 15:52:02
2014-07-14 15:55:54
2014-07-14 16:16:01
Because that's most important in face of such news...

2014-07-14 16:37:08
Train should be coming soon. They're currently working on a new version.
2014-07-14 18:09:36
2014-07-14 19:42:33
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/.. has a different looking version of de_train in one of the screenshots.
2014-07-14 22:08:07

It's not an official annoncement but it was a subtle hint in the latest penetration update blog.

Post edited 2014-07-14 22:20:59
2014-07-14 22:20:20
Saying it's not impossible and hinting at it are two completely different things. What a click bait title.
2014-07-14 15:52:32
2014-07-14 16:31:49
2014-07-14 16:55:31
2014-07-14 18:13:07
de_international? wtf volvo no more maps omg
2014-07-14 15:53:14
lol'd on this
2014-07-14 18:38:51
lol n1
2014-07-14 15:53:18
2014-07-14 15:53:35
yes, future. 2060
2014-07-14 15:54:34
Along with tuscan!
2014-07-14 15:57:06
March only
2014-07-14 16:25:53
March 2060
2014-07-14 17:46:34
Hold your horses. He didn't give any precise info on how and when, so let's face it, there'll be no next "TI" in CS before 2016.

If a 10M $ prize pool was ever to be in CS, the qualifiers would need to be held on LAN and no BYOC and not even own equipment.

Besides, they had so much time to implement new ideas to CS scene, but failed to do so, why....

2014-07-14 15:55:25
"and not even own equipment."

2014-07-14 16:03:58
Rumours say that we will will see aimbot mouse from SteelSeries in 2016.
2014-07-14 17:25:57
For how much?
2014-07-14 20:44:52
there wont be any 10m prizepool in cs, stop dreaming :D

dota community is a realy thankful community which actually loves to give valve their money.
while csgo community is raging at valve over every fucking update even when its obvious that some things will be changed after every patch xD
2014-07-14 16:05:07
10m for CSGO community would be ez
2014-07-14 16:27:20
nope :|
1m-3m ez
3m-5m hard
not gonna reach 10m
2014-07-14 16:34:33
the player numbers are nowhere near dota2's so no, it wont see $10m unless CSGO player base increases x5 in the next year.

as the person above me stated, $1-3 mil is achievable, over that will be difficult.

Post edited 2014-07-14 16:52:15
2014-07-14 16:52:01
Bacause dota 2 is actually a really good game and the updates are good and makes sense.

Cam't say the same about go = less support.
2014-07-14 17:11:16
dont get me wrong. some updates have some bad stuff but i talk about obvious mistakes which will be fixed. like tec9 last patch. it was an obvious mistake and they just fixed it 1 day after but before people go crazy about it.
2014-07-14 17:25:04
2014-07-14 16:05:29
Schypher - HLTV.org
Besides, they had so much time to implement new ideas to CS scene, but failed to do so, why....

Probably because they see CS as their baby and answer to no one when it comes to it.

While with Dota, it already had a huge following when they picked it up, so when something changes for the worse, they can't really strong-arm the community like they do with GO. (i.e. skins, diretide, weather effects etc)

Either that or Icefrog is a real pain the ass to them. Meanwhile, in the CS department it's been almost 3 years and they still haven't figured out how CS was ever popular without skins.
2014-07-14 17:40:14
2014-07-14 16:00:39
First allow to view games on GOTV
2014-07-14 16:00:47
without any lags and with a spectator like dota!
2014-07-14 16:02:35
They would probably implement a ticket system like in DotA where you would have to pay to watch GOTV for certain events, etc.
2014-07-14 16:32:09
april fool
2014-07-14 16:02:08
2014-07-14 16:07:22
Just face it everyone,Valve gives too much importance to Dota 2,this game is one of their priority when you open Dota 2 you can notice that (even i dont like the game and i dont play it but i can see what Valve have donne to the game so far),but CS:GO comes in the second if not the 3rd position that's why i hate this company.
2014-07-14 16:07:48
I don't hate Doto but Volvo seem likes they only care about Doto.
2014-07-14 16:31:15
CS:GO International Incoming. :D
2014-07-14 16:08:15
1 000 000 enough to first Int ^_-
2014-07-14 16:10:26
ITT: ignorant fucks who dont understand that valve has nothing to do with releasing tuscan
2014-07-14 16:11:40
They could pay Brute...
2014-07-14 16:32:39
Why should they?
2014-07-15 17:48:43
To support community map makers and have a map come out quicker? Why not?
2014-07-15 21:32:35
Cause they are a company and only look out for their best interest.
2014-07-15 22:11:19
Having a highly competitive map is in their interest if you are able to look at the bigger picture. Actually you don't even have to. It's in their interest, period to have good maps.

Post edited 2014-07-15 23:30:57
2014-07-15 23:30:29
Not necessarily people are buying these operations even with bad maps and they arent paying anyone to make them. They are paying them to use it.
2014-07-16 01:11:00
The better maps a tournament has the higher motivation professional players have for tournaments. Less animosity towards Valve and other organizers. This in turn leads to a higher level of play and more all around respect for the game. A thriving esports scene goes a long way towards making money on the game (as shown by LoL).

It's not just about the visible money hitting Valve's bank account... I thought this was obvious.

Post edited 2014-07-16 14:09:36
2014-07-16 14:08:50
the international would make csgo hit 400.000 users for sure!
2014-07-14 16:12:54
how did the updates helped the competitive scene?!

pretty flowers?
2014-07-14 16:16:35
2014-07-14 16:26:53
+lag -fps +ddos
2014-07-14 16:32:11
no please!
2014-07-14 16:19:14
yes please !
2014-07-14 16:22:34
Huge news
2014-07-14 16:21:36
I hope this isn't another way of trolling CS community.
2014-07-14 16:24:09
Why would they troll about "It's not impossible".

It's not like they announced it or anything.
2014-07-14 18:14:02
Dota2 needs the international, because it has to compete with LoL .....

CS:GO ....doesn't need to compete with any other game.

Dunno, i doubt there will be a TI for CS:GO any time soon.
2014-07-14 16:25:09
A good reason to form a TI-like event would be to stay ahead of the game. Great companies aren't judged by how they deal with competition but with how they stay ahead once they are ahead.
2014-07-14 16:33:30
I just want a fxckin $1m for da prizepool :<
$250k prizepool is such a shame for the biggest event of one of the best esports in the world.
(sorry for my bad English)
2014-07-14 16:26:22
and the way Volvo let their developer messed around with dust2 and map-pool made me think that lord GabeN didn't care about CS anymore.
2014-07-14 16:29:05
2014-07-14 16:30:15
best idea valve has ever had
2014-07-14 16:26:32
i don't agree that this is a hint for TI in csgo.
2014-07-14 16:27:07
Schypher - HLTV.org
2014-07-14 17:42:56
Yeah. Moar chickens firdt tho. Right?
2014-07-14 16:30:30
hint? its nothing lol they should make game proper first of all but no they release shit updates and making shitty mappool for tournament which pro players and community dont want this game going no where for now on.
2014-07-14 16:34:33
Cs:go deadened game.

2014-07-14 16:39:45
i know its growing and game is not bad just saying that valve doing wrong updates even simple user like me can mention thousands things that can improve game
2014-07-14 19:09:48
See, this is what pisses me off. You really think ''Oh I'm gonna make quickscopes come back and fix the movement, this will make the game better'' Don't forget that not all CSGO players came from past pro scenes or were very good players. Some of the community is actually new and doesn't know jack shit about how and who played the past versions of Counter-Strike,Valve knows this and so they are trying to make changes to the game which would adapt better for both sides of the community, The Casuals and The Pros.
2014-07-14 19:22:47
i agree with you cs go actually new game and should have new things and changes from previous cs parts but look what they update usually new operations and trying put some new maps in map pool and what about keep improving Match Making so casual players will lately turn "pro" and etc problem is valve trying more for casual players sometimes
2014-07-14 19:28:21
2014-07-14 16:43:13
This is what it would take to put CS:GO over the edge and into greatness.
2014-07-14 16:43:20
No more overpass and cbble plzzz
2014-07-14 16:49:34
n1 c:
2014-07-14 16:54:47
N1 volvi
2014-07-14 16:56:29
How is that a hint? Like, at all?

"I donít see any reason why a lot of the same things couldn't be applied directly to Counter-Strike."
2014-07-14 16:56:59
I agree. This isn't a hint at anything it's just him saying there's no reason why it wouldn't work for CS.

These 250k tournaments are our mini 'internationals' just spread out during the year.
2014-07-14 17:24:56
Which to me is actually far better.

TI comes around once a year, so you get mega hyped for it. However we get four of these spread through a year, and that means we get four chances to see the best teams slog it out for a good sum of money.

In future with the natural growth of the scene, maybe we will see 500k tournaments as opposed to 250k, or maybe Valve will do three 250k tournaments and 1 500k tournament just to raise the stakes. However what we have now is amazing for the competitive community.
2014-07-15 10:04:23
I agree. These 'TI' tournaments are hyped for 2 - 3 months a year, our mini tournaments are hyped everytime they come around. Everyone talks about the next tournament and when it is. If it's not announced people want to know when it'll be announced.

Constant exposure and thirst for the next tournament.

I think Valve has enough bank to increase the money for the tournaments already, maybe not double the price pool but most likely to increase it to 350 - 400k.
2014-07-15 10:12:47
n1 valve
2014-07-14 16:59:03
2014-07-14 16:59:07
2014-07-14 17:04:30
No need for a 10m prize pool even a 1-2-3 m will be good!!!
2014-07-14 17:06:30
i would prefer some kind of valve sponsored league system with a significant price money over a single tournament, kinda like code S in korea.
2014-07-14 17:08:35
2014-07-14 17:08:58
overgrown > overpass

+1000 times
2014-07-14 17:09:32
This isn't a hint at anything, it's someone not involved with CS saying a concept like TI would work for CS if they wanted to create one.
2014-07-14 17:25:28
64 tick tournaments on troll maps, CAN'T WAIT.
2014-07-14 17:25:44
yeah the tournaments on lan are on 64 tick KAPPA
2014-07-14 17:26:47
1st volvo should fucking listen community...
2014-07-14 17:26:59
2014-07-14 17:27:06
if its not called the international,what is the tournament should be called ? lmao O_o
2014-07-14 17:27:55
"The Global". :)
2014-07-14 17:42:01
in 3100 years?

Post edited 2014-07-14 17:41:11
2014-07-14 17:40:31
this is it!
2014-07-14 17:41:23
Last I saw Dota had 10 mil uniques in last month whilst CS was 3 mil. If a CS tournament can raise a 3rd of the Dota prize pool it's a huge, yet realistic target.
2014-07-14 17:45:27
See dis sooon
2014-07-14 17:50:02
NICE! #hype
2014-07-14 17:57:09
2014-07-14 18:00:02
nice clan
2014-07-14 18:01:00
TI=better CS:GO
2014-07-14 18:16:53
2014-07-14 18:30:58
Would be awesome!

Post edited 2014-07-14 18:46:27
2014-07-14 18:46:20
csgo worst game ever =\
2014-07-14 19:03:18
Yeeeeeeeees N11111111111
2014-07-14 19:03:58

Post edited 2014-07-14 19:09:52
2014-07-14 19:09:06
I think it's only a good idea if they keep the 250K tournaments. A healthy scene needs more than one big event each year. Especially if it's going to reach this kind of ridiculous prize money...
2014-07-14 19:09:48
Who cares about the TI for CS:GO?! We have some maps to rage about right now!

I will be surprised if Valve do anything to make this community any bigger.
2014-07-14 19:11:09
You dont see valve listen to us and they update csgo to be better for all.The movement is csgo no 1.6 cant be csgo movement like 1.6 so fuck off whit this movement update !.
2014-07-14 19:25:58
doubt it, what would valve be able to do to get this type of money? also have you seen the # of players playing each game? dota 2 has around 7x the number of players that csgo has. that means alot more people to buy the compendium thing, also look at twitch, dota 2 is on top like 24/7
2014-07-14 19:33:43
cant wait for it to happen
2014-07-14 19:40:56
2014-07-14 19:42:36
bascially we already have something similar probably that guy just doesnt know
2014-07-14 19:43:56
nice, i read it today in PC Gamer but i didnt thought that it were real :O
2014-07-14 20:54:39
Very good news! <3 Valve (apart from trolling me when I open CS:GO weapon cases :D)
2014-07-14 21:20:54
Its coming guys. ;)
2014-07-14 21:30:16
2014-07-14 21:31:00
LOL YEAHH +1 valve!!
2014-07-14 21:46:51
wow nice <3 valve now
2014-07-14 22:05:49
"I donít know if it would be called The International, but the guys working on Counter-Strike made a lot of progress on supporting the professional community around that game,"

not sure if trolling

Post edited 2014-07-14 22:30:29
2014-07-14 22:30:14
financial support
250k tourneys

get it?
2014-07-15 11:00:17
He's saying it objectively, his statement confirms nothing at all, apart from the fact that valve acknowledges a growing cs community. So....sorry to everyone who think TI will definetely come to CS GO.
2014-07-14 23:22:33
No they're acknowledging a growing bank balance due to the CACK drop chance on decent guns from chests.
2014-07-14 23:24:19
GG valve :D
2014-07-14 23:36:30
that would be fantastic!
2014-07-14 23:45:46
and you should make some really shitty maplist for the tournament, smth like this one:
GG valve, as usual
2014-07-15 00:12:42
I wouldn't even complain if they added Chinatown. I like that map.
2014-07-15 01:45:39
Lets bring back the old legends :)
2014-07-15 00:32:28
nice !
2014-07-15 02:54:11
2014-07-15 02:57:18
wrong post

Post edited 2014-07-15 04:51:51
2014-07-15 04:51:06
still so many retards on hltv.org, why cant we just get rid of them?

Im guessing that when CSGO reach 500k peak/day, 2 mil tournaments and 500k viewers on twitch they will still be here with "oh noz, the MOVMENTATION is bed", "1.6 4 3v3r"... will we never be free of those cancers?
2014-07-15 07:58:02
Not going to happen. I love 1.6 myself; but this current trend of complete cynicism is disgusting.
2014-07-15 11:54:32
2014-07-15 18:24:51
2014-07-15 08:11:37
2014-07-15 09:16:08
WHEN IT???????
2014-07-15 09:45:29
Lol csgo will never get a prize pool as big as the dota 2 international.
2014-07-15 12:51:50
I say to you djdoodoo you are not so sure just stop talking about dota2 when this is for csgo.Wtf s many noobs in csgo come here to troll whit there post about csgo so bad csgo never will be dota2.OMG why ppl are so bad?
2014-07-15 15:11:33
Few years ago number of DotA 1 players was not even half of the current Dota 2 players.wp gaben
2014-07-16 14:23:07

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