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METHOD =DD!
GG comments on spectator matter
The GameGune organisation has issued a statement to address the comments made about the spectator issue.
"First of all, the title misquotes blatantly our words. Nobody from the organization said that and the only thing you will get writing this is making people think that GameGune is a tournament that does not give a damn about spectators, and that´s not even close to the truth.
"The article is not sincere about what really happened. The schedule that ORG people sent to the press before the tournament is approximate and everybody knows that. If everything goes better than expected (which is what happened), and a match can start earlier, so it will. For us, the most important thing is to take care of players. Our goal is that when the tournament is over they are happy with the organization and the facilities, so they will repeat next year and tell everyone about us. If we were such a bad organization as the article seems to imply, teams would never come to our tournament year after year. You can ask every single team of the tournament if they have had any problem with org people, computers or schedules.
"We´ve always asked every participant about their opinion in order to improve and that made us what we are now. I know that advancing matches is not good for spectators and I want to apologise for the inconvenience we may have caused. But, as I said, it´s not true that we don’t care about spectators. From the very first match of the first group, HLTVs are up and running. We have every demo of every match recorded. We have all POV demos recorded. We also have server logs to do statistics with your website program. So, happily I can say that, the only problem in the tournament has been this 30 minutes of advancing the match. This could have been fixed if HLTV.org people had talked to ORG people right after the previous match and had asked when the next match was going to start rather than just writing down what the approximate schedule said.
"To sum up, GameGune ORG is sorry for the inconvenience we may have caused, and we invite everyone to come to Bilbao and see how things are run here and how teams feel about the organization. Players would rather have an earlier start. We care about them because they are the single most important part of the tournament, because without them, there is no GameGune."
From HLTV.org, we would like to apologize if our piece damaged in some way the image of the GameGune event in the community. We have worked with GameGune for many years and established a good relationship with them, and we hope it will continue like that. However, we feel it was our obligation to report on words which, despite probably not having been fully thought out, were still produced.
I would like to be the first to comment on the matter, as it was me who brought the post in the first place.
First of all I’d like to underline that GameGune for years I’ve been in HLTV.org, has always been very cooperative, with this year being no exception. MIRAA and I got picked up in the airport, dropped off at our hotel and generally served with the best conditions press could pray for. The GameGune organizers, especially zoR, made it really easy for us, in terms helping us getting HLTV setup, gathering POV demos and so forth.
Turning over to what was said to us, when we were confronted with the fact that a match in the lower-bracket would start 30mins earlier, I stressed that it is a really bad idea to pre-pone matches. As stated by zoR, matches could start earlier than schedule, where to I responded that they should not, drawing parallels to football, where this would never happen. I noticed that several users had complained about matches starting before time earlier in the tournament, which made me fight hard for the matches to begin at the “scheduled” time.
What I quoted zoR for (We don't care about spectators, it is better for us and for the players), was his words and not something we fabricated. As nothing was recorded, it will come down to our word against his.
On a personal level, I can totally understand how zoR reacted to this. Had I been in his shoes, I would most likely have reacted the exact same way. Together with many of the other guys in the crew, I am a good friend of zoR for the past many years, which made it even harder to bring the post, as I knew it would do damage. I do however feel as a reporter, that we are obligated to report such situations, that it will damage a long-time friendship is simply the downside about getting close with the people who’s tournaments we cover.
As mentioned, I can totally understand that zoR feels offended and disappointed in a friend. I do however still think of zoR as a friend, if it’s likewise only zoR can decide.
Post edited 2010-07-26 17:20:23
First of all I’d like to underline that GameGune for years I’ve been in HLTV.org, has always been very cooperative, with this year being no exception. MIRAA and I got picked up in the airport, dropped off at our hotel and generally served with the best conditions press could pray for. The GameGune organizers, especially zoR, made it really easy for us, in terms helping us getting HLTV setup, gathering POV demos and so forth.
Turning over to what was said to us, when we were confronted with the fact that a match in the lower-bracket would start 30mins earlier, I stressed that it is a really bad idea to pre-pone matches. As stated by zoR, matches could start earlier than schedule, where to I responded that they should not, drawing parallels to football, where this would never happen. I noticed that several users had complained about matches starting before time earlier in the tournament, which made me fight hard for the matches to begin at the “scheduled” time.
What I quoted zoR for (We don't care about spectators, it is better for us and for the players), was his words and not something we fabricated. As nothing was recorded, it will come down to our word against his.
On a personal level, I can totally understand how zoR reacted to this. Had I been in his shoes, I would most likely have reacted the exact same way. Together with many of the other guys in the crew, I am a good friend of zoR for the past many years, which made it even harder to bring the post, as I knew it would do damage. I do however feel as a reporter, that we are obligated to report such situations, that it will damage a long-time friendship is simply the downside about getting close with the people who’s tournaments we cover.
As mentioned, I can totally understand that zoR feels offended and disappointed in a friend. I do however still think of zoR as a friend, if it’s likewise only zoR can decide.
Post edited 2010-07-26 17:20:23
2010-07-26 17:18:08
I agree
2010-07-26 17:23:06
I agree too
2010-07-26 17:23:53
Agree
2010-07-26 17:25:15
Lol nixon u are a noob
2010-07-26 17:25:38
lol wtf!
2010-07-27 08:18:08
i witnessed the conversation between nixon and zor and can confirm that the sentence nixon quoted was not made up by him.
Post edited 2010-07-26 17:35:12
Post edited 2010-07-26 17:35:12
2010-07-26 17:34:58
I hope zoR will understand you. They were right about playing the games eariler, but wrong about saying such a thing. I think you made a mistake posting zoR's words, but as you said you are a reporter so its your choice ;)
Its my opinion, dont attack me, pliz! ;<
Its my opinion, dont attack me, pliz! ;<
2010-07-26 17:43:29
You are right about the quote but you will agree that the headline sent out a really wrong message. That was my first impression on reading that article and that's why I didn't post anything there.
"Had I been in his shoes, I would most likely have reacted the exact same way" This pretty much sums up what I am trying to say. If you know the organisation is not like that, the fact that they do care about players and specs, make it reflect in the headline too.
The vast majority of cs audience won't go into the nitty gritties of the event. They will just discuss this statement "We don't care about spectators: Gamegune" and that's it. The image of Gamegune not caring about specs will be the dominant opinion at the end of the day. Add to it some people missing out on matches and you have got a perfect storm brewing up.
Although reporting on it was fine but the headline was more sensational than objective.
P.S Please don't think I am being overtly critical or anything like that but simple mistakes like these can seriously harm the reputation of events.
Post edited 2010-07-26 18:04:52
"Had I been in his shoes, I would most likely have reacted the exact same way" This pretty much sums up what I am trying to say. If you know the organisation is not like that, the fact that they do care about players and specs, make it reflect in the headline too.
The vast majority of cs audience won't go into the nitty gritties of the event. They will just discuss this statement "We don't care about spectators: Gamegune" and that's it. The image of Gamegune not caring about specs will be the dominant opinion at the end of the day. Add to it some people missing out on matches and you have got a perfect storm brewing up.
Although reporting on it was fine but the headline was more sensational than objective.
P.S Please don't think I am being overtly critical or anything like that but simple mistakes like these can seriously harm the reputation of events.
Post edited 2010-07-26 18:04:52
2010-07-26 17:59:29
Journalism is a fucked up world, I think most people who read the papers know this.
About the quoting, what was said was as I posted "We don't care about spectators, it is better for us and for the players".
It's quite natural that after our post that they defend their position and let the spectators know how they feel.
But that fact that pre-poning matches is really bad from a spectator point-of-view, I really don't see how this can be sensational over objective, as those words were the ones that were stated.
About the quoting, what was said was as I posted "We don't care about spectators, it is better for us and for the players".
It's quite natural that after our post that they defend their position and let the spectators know how they feel.
But that fact that pre-poning matches is really bad from a spectator point-of-view, I really don't see how this can be sensational over objective, as those words were the ones that were stated.
2010-07-26 18:56:28
No one is saying what you wrote is not true! I am talking about the impression your headline creates...consider yourself an audience member and imagine seeing HLTV.org feed to get the idea.
One can always argue endlessly whether pre-poning was a good idea or bad idea in GG's case. You have a very valid point and they have also made their concerns known. But since this topic had the potential to tarnish the organisers reputation, the original article, in my opinion, should have carried an official statement from Gamegune allowing them to explain in detail rather than only quoting a small albeit powerful statement by one person. That doesn't do justice at all.
Post edited 2010-07-26 19:29:47
One can always argue endlessly whether pre-poning was a good idea or bad idea in GG's case. You have a very valid point and they have also made their concerns known. But since this topic had the potential to tarnish the organisers reputation, the original article, in my opinion, should have carried an official statement from Gamegune allowing them to explain in detail rather than only quoting a small albeit powerful statement by one person. That doesn't do justice at all.
Post edited 2010-07-26 19:29:47
2010-07-26 19:20:50
"MIRAA and I got picked up in the airport, dropped off at our hotel and generally served with the best conditions press could pray for."
WOW, i wanna work to HLTV.org too \o/
WOW, i wanna work to HLTV.org too \o/
2010-07-26 18:28:48
zoR is a person who did not deserve this "evil" treatment in the news published by you (GG too). I also consider him a good friend.
I'm glad everything is settled at last :)
I'm glad everything is settled at last :)
2010-07-26 18:54:14
And as I stated, its very unfortunate that it zoR, when I know him that well. It could have happened at another event, where I wouldn't have the same personal bonds and then it would be a totally different story.
2010-07-26 18:58:24
The decision to advance the game was the organization and players together (to go to eat) because they had more than one hour ahead of scheduled. You only had one previous schedule sent by zoR
You just do not like the decision... and is understandable, but I do not see this no problem, in the GG or any other tournament.
Sorry my english, greetings.
Post edited 2010-07-26 19:16:55
You just do not like the decision... and is understandable, but I do not see this no problem, in the GG or any other tournament.
Sorry my english, greetings.
Post edited 2010-07-26 19:16:55
2010-07-26 19:16:33
Journalists sometimes have to twist storys, or switch a few words around to make it intesting or a good story to read otherwise it would just be a pointless article.
But "What I quoted zoR for (We don't care about spectators, it is better for us and for the players), was his words and not something we fabricated", As if you can say that to a journalist and not expect them to go write an article, even if he didnt think before he spoke, a journalist will always do the upmost to produce a good article (Sort of like a drug, If you have shit drugs you lose costumers, If you write shit articles, people wont be coming back to read it)
Spectators are everythink in the counter strike scene, lucky enough there are so many fanyb0ys who keep it going.
Note to gg: THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK
But "What I quoted zoR for (We don't care about spectators, it is better for us and for the players), was his words and not something we fabricated", As if you can say that to a journalist and not expect them to go write an article, even if he didnt think before he spoke, a journalist will always do the upmost to produce a good article (Sort of like a drug, If you have shit drugs you lose costumers, If you write shit articles, people wont be coming back to read it)
Spectators are everythink in the counter strike scene, lucky enough there are so many fanyb0ys who keep it going.
Note to gg: THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK
2010-07-26 19:27:08
Respect NiX!! Respect to you man, you deserve it!
2010-07-27 08:14:59
What did happen? can someone reply with what happen in 2 lines?
2010-07-26 17:24:28
and me agree +1
2010-07-26 17:25:20
Where are all the POV demos of GG?
2010-07-26 17:26:19
I understand both sides but I think that in order for a tournament/organization to be completely professional, it needs to stick to a pre-determined schedule.
Listening to the players is very important, and they are a huge part of the mix, but the spectators are even more important.
You can't bend over backwards for your players at the expense of the fans, or the organization will never grow or be taken seriously.
Listening to the players is very important, and they are a huge part of the mix, but the spectators are even more important.
You can't bend over backwards for your players at the expense of the fans, or the organization will never grow or be taken seriously.
2010-07-26 17:27:11
when IEM shanghai starts?
2010-07-26 17:31:41
This week.
2010-07-26 17:47:10
Media like media...reporters like reporters .. always making a big deal out of something
2010-07-26 17:34:23
+1. The problem is that sometimes media can cause big damage and in this case I think that GameGune organisers don't deserve that.
When talking about tournament schedules, it happens often that matches start late or even are postponed to the following day and everybody complains.
If it is possible to play the matches earlier and the players agree, it is a natural choice to prevent future delays.
When talking about tournament schedules, it happens often that matches start late or even are postponed to the following day and everybody complains.
If it is possible to play the matches earlier and the players agree, it is a natural choice to prevent future delays.
2010-07-26 18:14:46
But if matches are delayed you do not (necessarily) miss them, if they are ahead of time, you (most likely) miss them, and that is why delays are much better than starting early, simple as that.
2010-07-27 10:44:23
That's a good point, but each side has different points of view and different priorities. I guess I'm more with the organisation POV this time since GameGune is the only international event we have in Spain and there was no need to harm the event's reputation with such headline.
Most of the times I agree with hltv.org comments since I'm a spectator and an active user of this site from long time ago. But I have to say that sometimes I read headlines which are closer to cheap journalism (sadly this invades world media nowadays) than to professional sport coverage. That's not a problem when using humour or joking with headlines to get the attention from the readers. But this time there were better ways to inform and make your point.
Most of the times I agree with hltv.org comments since I'm a spectator and an active user of this site from long time ago. But I have to say that sometimes I read headlines which are closer to cheap journalism (sadly this invades world media nowadays) than to professional sport coverage. That's not a problem when using humour or joking with headlines to get the attention from the readers. But this time there were better ways to inform and make your point.
2010-07-27 12:33:01
i think that playing that match earlier was a good choice.
no matter what decision you make, some ppl will be against it.
we whine every time when certen match is not started at the exact published time... if they start earlier we were not able to watch the whole thing because we missed some rounds
if they are late, we whine because we are sitting in front of our computer waiting for that match to start
so to sum this whole thing up, we r watching those matches because of players, and if they feel that they can perform better 30 minutes before official start and admins are ok with that, they should be allowed to reach an agreement between themselves
no matter what decision you make, some ppl will be against it.
we whine every time when certen match is not started at the exact published time... if they start earlier we were not able to watch the whole thing because we missed some rounds
if they are late, we whine because we are sitting in front of our computer waiting for that match to start
so to sum this whole thing up, we r watching those matches because of players, and if they feel that they can perform better 30 minutes before official start and admins are ok with that, they should be allowed to reach an agreement between themselves
2010-07-26 17:34:52
Hey, thats just wrong.
Do you want turning a big event into some amateur tournament?
Did you ever see some big event in sports changing its schedule just because the players and the organizers decided to do so?
Where's the profesionalism?
Do you want turning a big event into some amateur tournament?
Did you ever see some big event in sports changing its schedule just because the players and the organizers decided to do so?
Where's the profesionalism?
2010-07-26 22:07:16
they have every right to change schedule, it's up to us wheater we want to watch it or not. Besides, you can always download that demo afterwards.
also, i'd rather see start of a match earlier then later
also, i'd rather see start of a match earlier then later
2010-07-27 02:29:21
Yes, its not up to us. But what im talking about here is professionalism ethics.
And btw, do you prefer watching a recorded football match than see it live?
I guess we have a different taste then :)
And btw, do you prefer watching a recorded football match than see it live?
I guess we have a different taste then :)
2010-07-27 10:18:51
you can't actually compare this to football, where players are paid shitlod of money and medias are paying to cover certen event
1st place reward in CS equals ammount of money that average football player earns in 1 day or even less. Not a single media house has to pay to cover a certen tournament in CS or any other e-sports game
so my question is: why shouldn't they change the official schedule +-30 minutes if that does not cost them?
1st place reward in CS equals ammount of money that average football player earns in 1 day or even less. Not a single media house has to pay to cover a certen tournament in CS or any other e-sports game
so my question is: why shouldn't they change the official schedule +-30 minutes if that does not cost them?
2010-07-27 12:30:44
First of all, professionalism has nothing to do with high salary. All it means is that you do your job in an efficient manner and that it shows expertise in your line of work with the correct attitude for it. One of the most important parts of professionalism is the attitude: if you act like any other rag-tag tournament that doesn't follow their pre-determined schedule (especially when they could have), I'd say that it doesn't show quite the professional attitude. Please read Kieturakis' post as well:
www.hltv.org/?pageid=18&threadid=49888#r971944
spectators are an important part of the model in the business, and you're not maximizing your profit if you're cutting short of the maximum potential of spectators that can be achieved. Who knows if 500/500 if those mentioned spectators that missed the game happened to be looking for new gaming gear and saw the hltv ads or sponsors? Unlikely as it is, I'm just showing an example of why it isn't a good idea to cut short potential profit for no reason. Now if you want to argue, "who the hell buys stuff based off of hltv ads or sponsor tags?" True, it's not the most efficient form of advertising, but it's a sunk cost (unavoidable), which means that the sponsors might as well make the best of it. And this isn't the best way to attract sponsors/consumers, to say the least.
Post edited 2010-07-27 18:38:08
www.hltv.org/?pageid=18&threadid=49888#r971944
spectators are an important part of the model in the business, and you're not maximizing your profit if you're cutting short of the maximum potential of spectators that can be achieved. Who knows if 500/500 if those mentioned spectators that missed the game happened to be looking for new gaming gear and saw the hltv ads or sponsors? Unlikely as it is, I'm just showing an example of why it isn't a good idea to cut short potential profit for no reason. Now if you want to argue, "who the hell buys stuff based off of hltv ads or sponsor tags?" True, it's not the most efficient form of advertising, but it's a sunk cost (unavoidable), which means that the sponsors might as well make the best of it. And this isn't the best way to attract sponsors/consumers, to say the least.
Post edited 2010-07-27 18:38:08
2010-07-27 18:35:56
2much text so i wont even bother
2010-07-27 19:02:19
"why shouldn't they change the official schedule +-30 minutes if that does not cost them?"
good question.
Now if this is about money from the last event, ofc they're not gonna lose anything.
BUT, as you can see there's already controversy right now, which give them a bad reputation.
And you know what happens if you got a bad reputation, money wont make your reputation clear.. and surely they would lose profit if its continues like this.
You prefer got a bad reputation and earns some money, then losing respect in front of us?
for me : Reputation/Trust > Money
Ah, and also... if my answer is "2much text" for you, dont bother to read it.
I wont get anything even if i try to make you understand. And I dont expect you to understand either. :)
Post edited 2010-07-27 19:17:09
good question.
Now if this is about money from the last event, ofc they're not gonna lose anything.
BUT, as you can see there's already controversy right now, which give them a bad reputation.
And you know what happens if you got a bad reputation, money wont make your reputation clear.. and surely they would lose profit if its continues like this.
You prefer got a bad reputation and earns some money, then losing respect in front of us?
for me : Reputation/Trust > Money
Ah, and also... if my answer is "2much text" for you, dont bother to read it.
I wont get anything even if i try to make you understand. And I dont expect you to understand either. :)
Post edited 2010-07-27 19:17:09
2010-07-27 19:14:38
who cares ? did u ever play a "semi-pro" (atleast) tournament? waiting 1 hour at night, to play sucks... it's better to keep playing and end up earlier.
don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking you, I'm just pointing it out... the key-factor here, are the players... and you as organizer, must try to please their needs.
Post edited 2010-07-27 10:40:13
don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking you, I'm just pointing it out... the key-factor here, are the players... and you as organizer, must try to please their needs.
Post edited 2010-07-27 10:40:13
2010-07-27 10:38:40
First of all, please read my comment again.
Im not mentioning "semi-pros" or amateur tournaments here. We're talking about a big international tournament that many spectators look up to.
Second, its a professional players match. You can read others comment also, and many of them stated the same thing. The pro player, sponsored by the company to represent them in front of spectators. And if there's no spectators in this industry, can you assure that the sponsors would still sponsoring the teams? and you can imagine the after effect by yourself.
And the last, "Who cares?" Im as one of the spectators and a fan "CARE" about it, and im sure some or many of CS fan here would agree with me.
Oh, and about if you worried about they play sucks after a long waiting. They can blame themself for that. There's a schedule already and they know the schedule, So they must prepare themself at the right time, ready or not.
Post edited 2010-07-27 11:43:54
Im not mentioning "semi-pros" or amateur tournaments here. We're talking about a big international tournament that many spectators look up to.
Second, its a professional players match. You can read others comment also, and many of them stated the same thing. The pro player, sponsored by the company to represent them in front of spectators. And if there's no spectators in this industry, can you assure that the sponsors would still sponsoring the teams? and you can imagine the after effect by yourself.
And the last, "Who cares?" Im as one of the spectators and a fan "CARE" about it, and im sure some or many of CS fan here would agree with me.
Oh, and about if you worried about they play sucks after a long waiting. They can blame themself for that. There's a schedule already and they know the schedule, So they must prepare themself at the right time, ready or not.
Post edited 2010-07-27 11:43:54
2010-07-27 11:41:07
You're not right, players ask, organizers calls. Sponsors? They have sponsors all over their t-shirts, being in a final is more than ok to a sponsor, I think you're wrong, does MSi gives a sh*t about fnatic playing 30 minutes later so 500 ppl more can watch it? when there are thousands already, and thousands downloading demos+watching photos+visiting web page?
2010-07-27 14:47:37
First please read #118. CraZykAi has already answered your question better than I could :)
Yeah, MSi maybe doesnt give a shit about this time. But we're talking about a long-term here.
If the players or the org keep giving us a hard time as spectator, just think about what would happen next.
And about the demos, honestly do you prefer watching a recorded football match than seeing it live?
Then its the same for us who give much respect to CS as much as we respect football match.
Look its as simple as this : Players/ORG NEEDS Sponsors NEEDS Spectators, you can interprete that as Spectators comes first.
If you cant respect spectators and following the spectators needs you'll going down for sure.
Post edited 2010-07-27 19:08:56
Yeah, MSi maybe doesnt give a shit about this time. But we're talking about a long-term here.
If the players or the org keep giving us a hard time as spectator, just think about what would happen next.
And about the demos, honestly do you prefer watching a recorded football match than seeing it live?
Then its the same for us who give much respect to CS as much as we respect football match.
Look its as simple as this : Players/ORG NEEDS Sponsors NEEDS Spectators, you can interprete that as Spectators comes first.
If you cant respect spectators and following the spectators needs you'll going down for sure.
Post edited 2010-07-27 19:08:56
2010-07-27 19:08:01
oh please, how many tournaments can you find that start earlier in terms of schedule? 90% of the tourneys starts with 30 min. delay.
2010-07-27 21:05:13
Then you admit that pre-poning the match is a wrong attitude?
"how many tournaments can you find that start earlier in terms of schedule?" actually this is the first time i heard about it. And the response is no good, you could see it for yourself.
Im just saying, thats a wrong decision by GG.
And as Nixon stated, its better to having a delayed match than an earlier match.
"how many tournaments can you find that start earlier in terms of schedule?" actually this is the first time i heard about it. And the response is no good, you could see it for yourself.
Im just saying, thats a wrong decision by GG.
And as Nixon stated, its better to having a delayed match than an earlier match.
2010-07-27 21:19:48
and here we go again, better for who? open your mind. spectators ain't EVERYTHING.
2010-07-27 21:32:00
Yes, I understand your frustration with the delays and all.. I hate waiting too!
The difference is that I stated that they HAVE THE ABILITY to start on schedule. When there are delays, those are external causes that they cannot control. Like several others have already stated, this isn't just any local tournament.. GameGune is known much more than that. Reputation is not easy to build, and if you let slip that kind of statement, it could hurt consumer (spectator) confidence. Just trying to apply stuff from my class, sorry :]
The difference is that I stated that they HAVE THE ABILITY to start on schedule. When there are delays, those are external causes that they cannot control. Like several others have already stated, this isn't just any local tournament.. GameGune is known much more than that. Reputation is not easy to build, and if you let slip that kind of statement, it could hurt consumer (spectator) confidence. Just trying to apply stuff from my class, sorry :]
2010-07-27 21:20:00
and yes, I prefer to watch a demo, don't compare it with football, I don't watch the "strats" of football, I do with CS... I watch the strats in a demo.
2010-07-27 21:06:18
Well, you've got a different taste than mine then. :)
But Im sure many people here would like to see it live.
There's once a match that its spectators is up to 30k people seeing it live.
Imagine if that match was pre-poned.
And also, We as CS 1.6 fan, hoped that this game would be as success as football.
Why we couldnt comparing it with football?
Post edited 2010-07-27 21:34:41
But Im sure many people here would like to see it live.
There's once a match that its spectators is up to 30k people seeing it live.
Imagine if that match was pre-poned.
And also, We as CS 1.6 fan, hoped that this game would be as success as football.
Why we couldnt comparing it with football?
Post edited 2010-07-27 21:34:41
2010-07-27 21:26:31
because like I told, dude, YOU DON'T NEED TO WATCH STRATS at football, I do it at CS, and you can't watch a strat LIVE, you need to back and forward the dem.
2010-07-27 21:30:07
lol, we're not talking about learning strats here dude...
Do you think many people see football live just because they want to learning strategy or football??
This is ENTERTAINMENT, Dude !!!
And again, dont take your own thinking as a standard for other people. Some people want to see it live just because they want some Action, Excitement, etc.
True, if you want to learn strats and gameplay, Watching the demo is the source.
Post edited 2010-07-27 21:39:57
Do you think many people see football live just because they want to learning strategy or football??
This is ENTERTAINMENT, Dude !!!
And again, dont take your own thinking as a standard for other people. Some people want to see it live just because they want some Action, Excitement, etc.
True, if you want to learn strats and gameplay, Watching the demo is the source.
Post edited 2010-07-27 21:39:57
2010-07-27 21:37:44
wow u're fcking dumb, I will stop replying you, bye bye. You missread everything, cya
Post edited 2010-07-27 23:32:18
Post edited 2010-07-27 23:32:18
2010-07-27 23:31:58
ah my bad, Im on half way to sleep back then :p
I should reply like this
"Do you think many people see football live just because they want to learning strategy or football??"
---EDIT---
Do you think that thousands of people whos watching CS live just because they want to learn strats?
I should reply like this
"Do you think many people see football live just because they want to learning strategy or football??"
---EDIT---
Do you think that thousands of people whos watching CS live just because they want to learn strats?
2010-07-28 07:54:22
no I don't think so
2010-07-28 09:29:59
It's alright everyone makes mistakes.
2010-07-26 17:43:54
-wrong post-
Post edited 2010-07-26 21:45:13
Post edited 2010-07-26 21:45:13
2010-07-26 21:44:19
The earth won´t stop turning after such an accident. Hopefully you two will continue to cooperate and it won´t cause on your efficiency. Good luck in future, I´m sure it won´t happen anymore.
2010-07-26 18:08:02
Nixon - I think You were wrong. Bad call. And some ppl here where quite happy about sooner matches... As said - it is 100000 times better than delays - at least for me personally.
I think You made a wrong and immature decision, perhaps You wanted to punish GG for not listening to You ?
I am HLTV fan but I was unhappy with the post quotong GG. They have made AMAZING tournament.
Thanks to GG as well as HLTV for being up there for us.
I think You made a wrong and immature decision, perhaps You wanted to punish GG for not listening to You ?
I am HLTV fan but I was unhappy with the post quotong GG. They have made AMAZING tournament.
Thanks to GG as well as HLTV for being up there for us.
2010-07-26 18:15:27
I disagree that starting matches earlier is better than delays. I of anyone know how annoying delays can be, but I think I speak for the majority, when I say that starting before time, is one of the worst things possible. (You have your opinion and I have mine, nothing wrong there).
About punishing GameGune, now why would I do this? As I stated in my post, we got treated with the best possible conditions and press could ask for.
About punishing GameGune, now why would I do this? As I stated in my post, we got treated with the best possible conditions and press could ask for.
2010-07-26 18:49:50
Thanks for Your reply, I appreciate that. I think it's great that You are responsible (ability to respond - from original Latin translation). This is what is all about.
2010-07-26 20:41:37
I definitely agree nix0n! I think what nix0n meant is that for people who are on a tight schedule, it definitely is, for those people, the worst option possible. And I agree, since I can imagine a whole lot of people who could be affected by sudden changes like that.. of course, it's still entertainment, so it's still worth watching even if you miss 4-5 rounds :P
2010-07-27 21:23:15
I didnt see the match Na`Vi - Fnatic because of this so Nixon did everything right! U cant manipulate shedule just because u want the tournament to end sooner...
Little offtopic - will HLTV.org do a full coverage on Shanghai tournament? I mean will somebody be present there?
Post edited 2010-07-26 18:34:11
Little offtopic - will HLTV.org do a full coverage on Shanghai tournament? I mean will somebody be present there?
Post edited 2010-07-26 18:34:11
2010-07-26 18:32:06
I will be there and we will be covering the entire tournament. Nine matches will feature HLTV, while seven will be shown on ESL TV.
2010-07-26 18:44:48
esl tv sux -.-
2010-07-26 22:24:42
Oh, the eDrama. It never stops.
It's like a bunch of 13-year olds fighting over the plastic rake at the sandbox.
"BUT I LET YOU BORROW MY BUCKET AND SHOVEL THE OTHER DAY WHY CAN'T I HAVE THE RAKE NOW I WANT THE RAKE PLZ"
Jesus christ, it's a computer game.
It's like a bunch of 13-year olds fighting over the plastic rake at the sandbox.
"BUT I LET YOU BORROW MY BUCKET AND SHOVEL THE OTHER DAY WHY CAN'T I HAVE THE RAKE NOW I WANT THE RAKE PLZ"
Jesus christ, it's a computer game.
2010-07-26 18:32:17
It's a computer game true, but the industry wants to be more serious, accepted as a 'sport' and generally be a lot more professional. With that comes (in my opinion) things such like specific start times and so forth.
2010-07-26 18:47:30
"BUT I LET YOU BORROW MY BUCKET"
Lmao xD IWANTMYBUCKET BACK YOU GODDAM PINGUIN!
Lmao xD IWANTMYBUCKET BACK YOU GODDAM PINGUIN!
2010-07-26 19:57:09
That's exactly what they're trying to change mate. You're right it's just a computer game, soccer was once just a kick-the-ball game. Look where they are now! And I think it's great HLTV.org is fighting for a better scene and I really think they are succeeding, great job guys! Keep that up ;)
2010-07-26 20:54:23
fair enough nixon.. The truth must be told.. spectators is what makes e-sports!!
2010-07-26 18:54:55
Imagine tuning in on the World Cup final and first half was already played. THAT TELLS EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2010-07-26 19:03:33
It's a bit hypocritical to compare the GG with the World Cup, do not you think so?
It's totally different
It's totally different
2010-07-26 19:19:44
people have their preferences, i prefer watching people control virtual characters and shoot each other, whilst others prefer watching 22 guys run around some grass kicking an inflated leather sack.
things are subjective, when you're on a CS news website you're going to be interested in CS and when tournament organisers show a lack of respect for the people that make these events worth sponsoring it damages their credibility and its HLTV.org's job to report this.
things are subjective, when you're on a CS news website you're going to be interested in CS and when tournament organisers show a lack of respect for the people that make these events worth sponsoring it damages their credibility and its HLTV.org's job to report this.
2010-07-26 19:42:12
it IS the same, what're they doing is professionalism.
Post edited 2010-07-26 22:14:06
Post edited 2010-07-26 22:14:06
2010-07-26 22:12:41
How much money HLTV.org pay to the GameGune organization? oh wait...
It's not the same, mate.
Post edited 2010-07-27 01:47:14
It's not the same, mate.
Post edited 2010-07-27 01:47:14
2010-07-27 01:46:45
and whos talking about money?
im talking about ethics here mate :)
and also, if you want eSports become as big as football or basketball, why dont we take that as an example?
Post edited 2010-07-27 10:23:14
im talking about ethics here mate :)
and also, if you want eSports become as big as football or basketball, why dont we take that as an example?
Post edited 2010-07-27 10:23:14
2010-07-27 10:19:51
In this world, the money is everything. You should know that. In Spain, Real Madrid gets 120 M € only for TV rights, if you receive that quantity of money, you just follow the schedule. If you don't, you prefer the players comfort, that's simple.
I hope that some day HLTV.org has to pay for the HLTV rights, because this would significate that the eSports are become professional. Then, the GG organization wouldn't have any excuses for change the schedule.
I hope that some day HLTV.org has to pay for the HLTV rights, because this would significate that the eSports are become professional. Then, the GG organization wouldn't have any excuses for change the schedule.
2010-07-27 11:24:14
Ok, if we're talking about money.
How about this, Pro Players and The Event Organizers sponsored by a company right?
And the sponsors needs the spectators, correct me if im wrong.
"Pro Players/EO < Sponsors < Spectators"
You can imagine the rest by yourself.
You're talking RM got alot of cash from TV rights, so how if the TV always disappointing the spectators for pre-poning the match and the spectators couldnt see the game. Surely the TV station would got a bad rep and they wouldnt gain profit. If they got no profit, where's the money to buy the RM TV rights?
How about this, Pro Players and The Event Organizers sponsored by a company right?
And the sponsors needs the spectators, correct me if im wrong.
"Pro Players/EO < Sponsors < Spectators"
You can imagine the rest by yourself.
You're talking RM got alot of cash from TV rights, so how if the TV always disappointing the spectators for pre-poning the match and the spectators couldnt see the game. Surely the TV station would got a bad rep and they wouldnt gain profit. If they got no profit, where's the money to buy the RM TV rights?
2010-07-27 11:54:57
shit was blown outta proportion
2010-07-26 19:09:54
GG fail....
2010-07-26 19:13:54
Since this has become a spectator sport, due to it's sponsorships and advertising qualities, you really should consider the viewers. I mean big named sponsors will not sponsor an event just to advertise to those who attend. The sponsor also consider the online viewers as part of their target demographic that they are attempting to appealing to in accordance with their marketing strategy.
2010-07-26 19:59:29
when friends trade arguments and confrontations in public, i think something went wrong, lol
2010-07-26 20:00:20
You did great making that article. If there isnt any spectators to watch pro games who is going to give esport money to live ?
Who buy the Steelseries/razer/asus/intel/etc stuff ? Gamers, People who are watching the pros playing.
Now how they are watching it? By Hltv media, so if you screw Hltv you screw all the people who bring you the damn money.
Unprofessionnal behaviour from Gamegune staff but else there is nothing to blame on Gamegune staff they did a great show once again. The page is turned no need to do another Gay-ming drama like SK/Fnatic did.
Who buy the Steelseries/razer/asus/intel/etc stuff ? Gamers, People who are watching the pros playing.
Now how they are watching it? By Hltv media, so if you screw Hltv you screw all the people who bring you the damn money.
Unprofessionnal behaviour from Gamegune staff but else there is nothing to blame on Gamegune staff they did a great show once again. The page is turned no need to do another Gay-ming drama like SK/Fnatic did.
2010-07-26 20:14:05
When I was exchanging thoughts with zoR I did not refer/reply to his comments on his long time friendship with Nix0n as I thought the issue should not be seen from that perspective.
It is not between Jon and Marc but GameGune|zoR and HLTV.org|Nix0n or HLTV.org staff in general.
Just as Nix0n has stated it is nice to establish a friendship with people you work with at the different events but that does not make you act less professional if your work is being affected.
And, believe me, I know what I am talking about.
On this I even recall that match on ESL TV where the teams started to play with the stream not being ready (and the admin caring more about his dinner). A match broadcast focused on the spectators but in the end they were the less important ones for the teams?
As I told zoR I understand the organization caring about themselves and the attending teams but nowadays the 50% of importance, and even more refering to other sports events, is that of the spectators because if there weren't these sponsors would not care and none would travel anywhere.
It is not between Jon and Marc but GameGune|zoR and HLTV.org|Nix0n or HLTV.org staff in general.
Just as Nix0n has stated it is nice to establish a friendship with people you work with at the different events but that does not make you act less professional if your work is being affected.
And, believe me, I know what I am talking about.
On this I even recall that match on ESL TV where the teams started to play with the stream not being ready (and the admin caring more about his dinner). A match broadcast focused on the spectators but in the end they were the less important ones for the teams?
As I told zoR I understand the organization caring about themselves and the attending teams but nowadays the 50% of importance, and even more refering to other sports events, is that of the spectators because if there weren't these sponsors would not care and none would travel anywhere.
2010-07-26 20:24:45
Hehehe! the GG's administrator is in his right to defend what is him.
However, I lost some part of the initial matches cause of that. What Nix0n wrote is true, who was online in that moment knows this.
However, I lost some part of the initial matches cause of that. What Nix0n wrote is true, who was online in that moment knows this.
2010-07-26 20:41:00
interesting....my only thought is: why were the players playing in lawnchairs hahaha
2010-07-26 21:19:58
The problem was the ways that compose the news.
Post edited 2010-07-26 21:20:35
Post edited 2010-07-26 21:20:35
2010-07-26 21:20:20
lol imagine had not nix posted that news about it, bunch of people here wouldn've been flaming at the HLTV.org crews for the inaccurate/sudden change of the match time.
2010-07-26 21:45:23
This is a spectator sport and zoR should probably choose his words more carefully rather then try and attack the reputable news source that is HLTV.org. Nix0n as well the rest of the HLTV team have brought cs1.6 news for awhile now, so I highly doubt they've decided to start lying all of a sudden. zoR's statement just shows how far he's willing to go to discredit those who show him in an undesirable light.
2010-07-26 21:54:16
nah, i believe zor did the right thing.. you all hating cuz youve never organized a tourney yourself.
unrespect to hltv.org staff for this. i cant believe you think of yourself as friends..
unrespect to hltv.org staff for this. i cant believe you think of yourself as friends..
2010-07-26 22:09:09
So because zoR organizes tourneys gives him the right to be rude to the press?
2010-07-26 22:11:26
Tournaments depend on sponsorships, which make their money off of the advertising at the event and of the event. Basically the big companies that sponsor the event leave it to the tournaments to promote their event and by proxy their product to a target demographic, gamers. If you cut out the spectators you lose a large percentage of your “gamer’ audience, only advertising to the participants. This will lower the advertising potential of the event, which causes sponsors to stop sponsoring, due to the the decrease in cost to profit ratio due to lower sale, and thus kill the event.
NO SPECTATORS = NO MONEY
NO SPECTATORS = NO MONEY
2010-07-26 22:32:00
It's true taking care of your players is important. But remember, eSports is not all about the players, as also in other professional sports in general, the spectators role is as important as the players to make the game more attractive and interesting.
Imagine a World Cup game with no spectators, how interesting is that? Or an NBA Finals game with half-empty stadium? Will it look good as an event?
I personally think HLTV.org did was right. Journalism is about staying true what's happening out there. It's the GameGune responsibility to manage and control their staffs of things being said to journalists (whether it's in formal or informal situation).
Post edited 2010-07-26 22:22:40
Imagine a World Cup game with no spectators, how interesting is that? Or an NBA Finals game with half-empty stadium? Will it look good as an event?
I personally think HLTV.org did was right. Journalism is about staying true what's happening out there. It's the GameGune responsibility to manage and control their staffs of things being said to journalists (whether it's in formal or informal situation).
Post edited 2010-07-26 22:22:40
2010-07-26 22:20:27
NO SPECTATORS = NO MONEY, only this.
2010-07-26 23:12:08
"Players would rather have an earlier start. We care about them because they are the single most important part of the tournament, because without them, there is no GameGune."
But no people ,no money no sponsors , no game gune .
So players know that , if people buy they staff, mouse ,keybord , close etc organization is happy and make money.
If people dont follow them , then organization dont make money.
Sorry, but always spectators first, then players :]
Post edited 2010-07-26 23:36:49
But no people ,no money no sponsors , no game gune .
So players know that , if people buy they staff, mouse ,keybord , close etc organization is happy and make money.
If people dont follow them , then organization dont make money.
Sorry, but always spectators first, then players :]
Post edited 2010-07-26 23:36:49
2010-07-26 23:25:26
NO SPECTATORS=NO MONEY=NO TOURNAMENT AND DONT CALL THE WORD ''DAMN''
2010-07-27 00:10:25
No need for capitals only. Thank you.
2010-07-27 00:16:52
Nix0n stop crying, you were wrong with your stupid words like a kid, you work is be ready to this situation if you are covering a tournament...
advance > delayed
GG good job !
Post edited 2010-07-27 03:01:23
advance > delayed
GG good job !
Post edited 2010-07-27 03:01:23
2010-07-27 02:56:20
no spectators, no money.
and I think this apology was nothing more to organize the next GG.
Everything is marketing.
I hope that for the next tournament, we make these teams are there, so we need to give us the privilege, I think if you put a match to 10 respecting the time or take a new organization, as all things have to be organized.
If you are in a hurry to finish and do another event, then organize better.
I have the following question ....
Why the party forward?
and I think this apology was nothing more to organize the next GG.
Everything is marketing.
I hope that for the next tournament, we make these teams are there, so we need to give us the privilege, I think if you put a match to 10 respecting the time or take a new organization, as all things have to be organized.
If you are in a hurry to finish and do another event, then organize better.
I have the following question ....
Why the party forward?
2010-07-27 04:32:23
The problem is GG won't realize the importance of spectators until they grow much more. Only the biggest event organizers care (WCG, ESL, ESWC) because they value the importance and they want to make eSports like a professional sport.
GG just wants to get money from hosting a tournament.
GG just wants to get money from hosting a tournament.
2010-07-27 10:38:44
I agree that they should care more about specs in terms of schedules but as someone here said, as a player it sucks to wait 1 hour for matches to begin, for example at night. If both teams are there and ready to play, they would want the match to begin soon. I hope a better solution comes up to take care of both specs and players (maybe some kind of a buffer time to give an approximate idea of how early or late a match can start).
If you see from tournament standpoint (especially where a lot of smaller and local teams are playing), the players are of maximum importance. If they are happy with every arrangement they would come next year too and there would be general goodwill. And when these top players come, you will automatically have an audience, like it or not.
I don't believe that GG is here to make only short-term money. They have been running these tournaments for many years now and the courtesy they extended to Nixon and Miraa is well known. A greedy organiser won't do that.
If you see from tournament standpoint (especially where a lot of smaller and local teams are playing), the players are of maximum importance. If they are happy with every arrangement they would come next year too and there would be general goodwill. And when these top players come, you will automatically have an audience, like it or not.
I don't believe that GG is here to make only short-term money. They have been running these tournaments for many years now and the courtesy they extended to Nixon and Miraa is well known. A greedy organiser won't do that.
2010-07-27 11:46:10
I took in account that players would like to play early. Now without being a dick:
Players are here to play the game. They are the professionals. However, if they want to be sponsored to go to an event they need to understand that the organization wants them to be seen playing. For that reason, the organizations do not want matches to be moved. They want a set match time. When a team joins a professional organization, they give the organization certain deciding powers.
If the players are so much more important, it could be argued that there should be no HLTV's since it MIGHT IN SOME WAY ruin server performance.
------
In all professional sports, players don't have anything to say on when matches are. They are on at the time required and they play. They only worry about playing not what time and where. If eSports wants to be taken seriously, players will have to understand that unfortunately THEY ARE NOT the most important. The most important for an organization at the end of the day is business which cannot be acheived without spectators.
Players are here to play the game. They are the professionals. However, if they want to be sponsored to go to an event they need to understand that the organization wants them to be seen playing. For that reason, the organizations do not want matches to be moved. They want a set match time. When a team joins a professional organization, they give the organization certain deciding powers.
If the players are so much more important, it could be argued that there should be no HLTV's since it MIGHT IN SOME WAY ruin server performance.
------
In all professional sports, players don't have anything to say on when matches are. They are on at the time required and they play. They only worry about playing not what time and where. If eSports wants to be taken seriously, players will have to understand that unfortunately THEY ARE NOT the most important. The most important for an organization at the end of the day is business which cannot be acheived without spectators.
2010-07-27 12:27:13
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