Forum thread: Valve should unban ex-iBP and ex-Epsilon

just your daily ibuypower thread nothing to see here.

2017-01-02 11:23

Yeah it's a hard punishment but i think it has a pretty good effect on anyone who might have thought about matchfixing since the punishment is so servere. However, i agree it would be very interesting if steel, swag, dazed and azk could play in the big tournaments, i think they would be a hard contender for #1 in the world..

2017-01-02 11:26

#1 Haha, what are you smoking? They were bombing out of major groups like any NA scrub team.

2017-01-02 11:35

NA scrub team? The beat Titan in a bo3 and LDLC in a bo3.

2017-01-02 16:15

Meh. Pulling off a few upsets was the best they could do. But yeah, they were by far the best NA team and they would be atleast in the top10 these years (although they wouldn't play together due to personal conflicts).

2017-01-02 16:25

Pulling an upset in a bo3 is a legit win. Don't act like they just got lucky and won a bo1.

2017-01-02 16:36

Upset or not, they did it very rarely. About 2-3 times a year. They weren't really considered elite.

2017-01-02 16:41

They are like C9 nowadays = have a winning streak for a month and then suck for the rest.

2017-01-02 16:47

So you consider C9 a scrub team?

2017-01-02 19:11

ROFL XD wat m I reading

2017-01-02 11:39

#1 NA maybe... #1 world???? what are you smoking??

2017-01-02 19:23

But they broke the rules and got caught ? They knew the consequences it's there own fault should be permanently banned from the whole game

2017-01-02 11:33

They've expressed that they didn't know them and Valve didn't even give the players a clear punishment.

2017-01-02 11:34

So? Just becuase they didn't know the punishment doesn't make it ok to match fix.. so retarded

2017-01-02 11:38

Like the UK Scene?

2017-01-02 11:45

Yes of course like the "UK scene" lmao you really are a turd

2017-01-02 11:47

Was that a low blow or are you going to use rational thinking instead of grudge holding now?

2017-01-02 11:50

The low blow was your "UK scene" bs. He makes a perfectly reasonable point, just because you don't like his position doesn't make it any less valid or "grudge holding". Cheater should never ever get second chances. And this is equal to cheating.

2017-01-02 12:41

You do realize there was no rule against math fixing right?

2017-01-02 11:49

there are national and international laws about match fixing....

2017-01-02 11:53

Yes but that isn't the case here, you do realize there is a reason that our government never got involved or honestly never even heard about it. They got paid skins...not a suitcase full of thousands of dollars, literally skins that go onto a gun in a video game. They hold no real value.

2017-01-02 12:04

its completely irrelevant.cash was involved and they fixed official match in sport where you can bet... another fact is that they stole money that way from people so they should be glad that they didnt go to jail lol

2017-01-02 12:06

Cash was not involved, they each got paid a few thousand dollars in skins. There is also a 0% they would go to jail since skins from a video game would not hold up in a court of law.

2017-01-02 12:08

what the hell are you talking about if you have absolutely no knowledge about law and things which already happened before? kotaku.com/two-gamers-are-going-to-jail-.. just 1 example

2017-01-02 12:10

In that games terms and services it must have stated that it is a violation of the rules. I recall from a game called Runescape, something similar happened because it was in the ToS. Valve at the time had no such rule and actually "encouraged" the selling and gambling of skins. That link has no relevance to this situation because of that.

2017-01-02 12:15

jesus are you really serious with this? hope not...no point to continue in this.it was against a law because there are national and international rules about it.you dont have to have special rule from valve aswell

2017-01-02 12:17

First off I just finished reading that link, and they went to jail because they hacked his login information and stole $6000 worth of items. It would be the same as if I hacked your bank and stole all your money. Secondly, you don't understand that those laws don't apply to the situation at hand, so their consequences have no impact on the IBP players.

2017-01-02 12:20

Hacking the account and steal items or fixing the match to unlawfully win the items. In both ways ppl stole things that didn't belong to them, the small details doesn't really matter. You seem awfully biased towards these banned players, why is that? Why does any cheater deserve a second chance?

2017-01-02 12:49

Cheaters clearly violate the rules and should be punished because they....violated the rules. People don't understand that teams "throw" all the time there just aren't skins involved. I remember in the past multiple times where a team didn't try at all because they already had their group won so there was no point. That is the same thing the IBP guys did except that got skins for it. If they didn't receive the skins, but still threw the game, all those people would have still lost the skins regardless, and they would not have been banned for their actions.

2017-01-02 12:57

Not giving it everything in game that doesn't matter is a problem that is hard to counter in any sport. However it is also a factor that anyone betting on that specific game will know before the game starts. So it is in no way even close to comparable to fixing a match. Sure any player can throw at any time in any sport, but when he has personal gain from doing that, it becomes a crime. A crime that carries heavy penalties and jail time even when done in very very low divisions and for fairly low amounts of money. Trust is super important both for the sport and the betting companies. These bans also carry huge value in the fact that they deter other kids from trying the same in the future. If Esport wants to be taken seriously, and it does, match fixing is just as bad as cheating and should be punished just as harshly. Again you seem heavily biased towards these kids, why is that?

2017-01-02 13:14

If I do recall correctly, that game had no impact whatsoever on the outcome of the league. IBP had only one loss that whole season and it was against Netcode, in a game which did not matter at all. What they did is exactly comparable to a team not trying in a game that has no importance. If they still threw the game, but received no skins, the same people would have lost their skins, and they would have not received a punishment. It is now illegal to bet skins, according to Valve, essentially saying that all the people betting at the time were also doing something "illegal". I use parenthesis around that word because the people betting didn't know they were doing something wrong, sound familiar to a few guys?? If there wasn't a rule in place at the time there should be no consequences. Also I am not biased towards these kids, just trying to make it so their unjustly punishment is undone.

2017-01-03 04:12

You keep trying to relativize their crime. As I already said, anyone can throw at any time, but when that throw carries personal monetary gain for the players who threw, it becomes illegal. And you are correct that if they did the same but didn't bet on themselves losing it would not be a problem and the bettors would still have lost the skins. But again you are trying to understate the importance of that little detail. It makes all the difference! Match fixing us a crime, no matter if it's done in Football, basketball, chess or CSGO. This is not something that each organizer/developer has to state for their sport. It is in no way comparable to the betting that you bring up, as betting is allowed in general, but match fixing is always a crime. And you didn't put it in parentheses, you put it in quotation marks, who is the native here? ;-P

2017-01-03 11:12

Skins which they stole off people which is still unlawful weather or not it's a video or anything else..

2017-01-02 12:08

What they did is wrong and shady, but not unlawful.

2017-01-02 12:09

Typical yank

2017-01-02 12:14

If you regonise esports as a sport then match fixing is most definitely not allowed.. same as in that thing you call "football" or baseball

2017-01-02 11:56

"i'm sorry officer, i didn't know i couldn't kill people " good logic.

2017-01-02 13:41

S1mple cheated on esl. Did he get vac banned? No. Did he get esl banned? Yes. Did he get permanently banned? No. Valves system is unfair. If it was fair s1mple would have a permanent ban now and same goes to m0e. Ppl can abuse these 3rd party programs with cheats as much as they want without the risk of getting banned from valve sponsored events xD. Just pointing out how retarded valves system is xD

2017-01-02 14:16

send this to valve. what can we do xD

2017-01-02 11:38

They stole from us, the community.

2017-01-02 11:41

They didn't steal from me and that's not really the point.

2017-01-02 11:47

What is the point ? Please go on..

2017-01-02 11:48

They stole from a few thousand people, if that....back then there wasn't any where near as many people that watch today. Also I can almost guarantee that most of the people who they "stole" from don't watch/play csgo anymore.

2017-01-02 11:54

Lol "a few thousand people" "Few"

2017-01-02 12:32

I hope you know that there are millions of people who actively watch and play csgo. Even if it was 10,000 people, that's not even 1% of the population that is involved with csgo. Keep in mind that this happened two years ago, so most of the "victims" involved aren't still playing or watching the game.

2017-01-02 12:36

It does not matter. It is still match-fixing and to steal from thousands of people is still much. And what absolutely does not matter is that the persons that got robbed is not in the game anymore. Why should that be a parameter?

2017-01-02 12:40

All I'm saying is they have been banned for two years, and the people that were impacted by the throw are gone. There is no reason for them to be banned anymore.

2017-01-02 12:44

Yes it is read my post #40 2 years is way too short for that big of a crime. Match-fixing should be equal to cheating because it have the same impact on the community. And I don't see them "un-ban qkly and Emilio" threads coming around. That is hypocrisy my friend.

2017-01-02 12:48

Cheating is clearing against the rules, so their punishments are whatever Valve sees fit. Teams in csgo throw all the time, the difference here is that the IBP guys did it for skins. There was no rule against this at the time, so there should be no consequences for their actions.

2017-01-02 13:03

"so there should be no consequences for their actions." ...I will not argue wit that. You have a different mindset to this world.

2017-01-02 13:39

You keep using that stupid statement, the fact that they did it for skins is a MASSIVE difference. Throw all you want in a game, but as soon as the throw ends up in personal gain it becomes a whole different thing. You seem to really stand up for them, why is that, why do they deserv anything?

2017-01-02 16:40

Throwing in csgo is allowed as long as it doesn't involve skins. This is the case nowadays after they threw the match for skins. At the time there was no rule in place or anything of the matter against this. That is why i defend them, because at the time they did nothing wrong, if they were to commit the crime now then I would be okay with it because a statement from Valve was released saying this is not okay.

2017-01-03 03:58

Wait, so you think the a games TOS somehow stands over normal laws? Match fixing (throwing with personal gain) is illegal at all times in all games. Or do you actually think you can do anything as long as it isn't specifically stated that you can not by the developer?

2017-01-03 10:56

They may have only directly impacted a few thousand people in a financial sense, but they indirectly hindered the growth of CSGO as a marketable sport for years and therefore harmed the entire community

2017-01-03 18:20

YOU PLACED A FUCKING BET YOU FUCKING IDIOT. THEY DIDN'T STEAL SHIT, IT WAS YOUR FAULT FOR BETTING IN THE FIRST PLACE. Your fucking problem if your fucked head takes betting so seriously.

2017-01-02 16:29

Purposely throwing games is illegal, in all sports. It is not even allowed for professional players to bet at all on the games they play, no matter if they bet on themselves or against. Doing this will result in heavy punishment including jail time. So since they bet against themselves, and then lost on purpose in a game they should have won, it is equivalent to stealing.

2017-01-02 16:44

Yes, I agree, they did something shady and malicious. But that wasn't my point at all. My point: Bettors can't use the "I lost my skins because of those thieves" arguement because it's bullshit. They lost their skins because they put them at risk when they placed their bet, the iBP players had nothing to do with their lack of responsibility. Personally, I had lost 2 asiimovs from that match but I am not acting like a bitch because I lost my skins by MYSELF.

2017-01-02 20:24

Fair enough, I just responded to your comment that it wasn't stealing, since I would argue that it pretty much was. This is a problem with betting that "allowed" under aged players. They can't cope with reality.

2017-01-02 21:27

Exactly. I just misinterpreted the meaning of #12, thought he was another salty bettor.

2017-01-02 21:29

i dont bet. but i am part of the community. so they stole from me. and also from u :D

2017-01-02 18:09

#102

2017-01-02 20:25

ur retarded xD

2017-01-02 21:43

Yeah... Probably

2017-01-02 22:16

I heard cheating DOTA 2 pros are unbanned after a year, is that true?

2017-01-02 11:47

Pretty sure it's true.

2017-01-02 13:36

I don't know if that is all DOTA 2 pros, but one group did after a year

2017-01-02 16:21

Pretty sure that isn't true. And since you have no facts to back it up I can go from pretty sure to just: I'm sure.

2017-01-02 16:45

Here's a link, sorry for getting back to you so late. vg247.com/2013/06/17/dota-2-team-receive..

2017-01-02 18:13

Just impressed you actually had anything to show. I don't have all the information, but based on your link it seems they threw a game that didn't effect the end result of the league. Basically that the teams where already eliminated/through anyway. These games are tricky in any sport. But if he made $300 and got 1 year ban for that. Then the ibp punishment doesn't seem so harsh, they got several thousand dollars worth of skins. Let's say the value was $3000, then the punishment should be 10 years. Which in Esport is basically a lifetime ban. Also the team in your link wasn't banned by Valve, they were just banned by Starladder.

2017-01-02 21:24

By that logic iBP should have been only banned from cevo, why did valve have to step in? As far as I know about the link, team threw, got relatively same amount as iBP in money, that $300 is for one person I think, got banned by tournament holder for a year. Why did iBP get banned from Valve and not cevo? Community backlash fucked them, and now the community regrets it.

2017-01-03 13:56

Why valve banned in one case and not the other we can only speculate about, and I am not much for conspiracy theories so I will give Valve the benefit of the doubt and assume that there are facts/evidence here that is not fully shared/understood. Maybe betting in DOTA 2 is not very common where as betting in CSGO at this time was massive. Maybe Valve wanted to make an example out of these guys. Again all we can do is speculate. I for one feel all kinds of cheating should be lifetime ban in every sport.

2017-01-03 22:02

why do u make a thread with fucking 20 pages of text over shit that everyones been knowing for a year csgo devs = subhumans everyone knows that

2017-01-02 11:50

ex-ibp guys if only they apologized instead of 4head "we did not throw valve" insta permanent ahaha

2017-01-02 12:02

Wouldn't have made a differnece

2017-01-02 13:37

Nop cause that what pushed valve to investigate

2017-01-02 14:53

agree

2017-01-02 12:06

you know the rules youtube.com/watch?v=IO9XlQrEt2Y

2017-01-02 12:29

They should definitly not be unbanned. Wtf, two years are way too short. Om the other hand, what they should get is a fixad sentence. And what I think is reasonable is a fixed suspension of about 5-6 years. Edit: I changed my mind. They match-fixed, that should be atleast 8-10 years.

2017-01-02 12:34

No one will play the game in 5-6 years, that's still basically an indefinite ban, still ends their csgo careers.

2017-01-02 16:22

You can never see in to the future and 5-10 years is fully normal when it comes to sports.

2017-01-02 22:50

LMFAO match fixing in real sports gives ~5-10 year ban. And then after that, there is still a scene for the athletes to compete in. In CSGO, your career at average is probably 5 years. So you think a matchfixing ban should be the equivalent of a life sentence.

2017-01-02 16:27

Thanks for agreeing with me m8

2017-01-02 18:14

Yes, that is correct and csgo career could be longer than in real sports. But csgo will probably be dead in 5 years. But you should still have 8-10 year ban.

2017-01-02 22:06

so you're saying that lifetime bans for match-fixing is ok. why bother even suggesting to change the time limit to their ban when it's permanent anyway?

2017-01-02 22:46

It is not lifetime ffs, it is 5-10 years. WE CAN NEVER KNOW HOW LONG TIME COUNTER-STRIKE WILL BE ALIVE. And yes, I think 5-10 years is fully acceptable.

2017-01-02 22:48

Either a new game will be released or players won't be playing then, he is saying it would basically be a permanent ban by then.

2017-01-03 13:53

Yes and I get that but I do not buy that. As I said we can never know how long counter-strike will last, that is why we should have a standard punishment around 5-10 years. What if counter-strike will live for a 100 years? We do not know.

2017-01-03 18:09

how do you repost the exact same thread twice in 17 hours and keep both alive? are you using some kind of exploit? i will not replicate it but i am honestly intrigued xd

2017-01-02 12:57

its a shame. swag was 17/18 back then - valve should at least fucking consider to unban him after 2 years wtf...

2017-01-02 13:00

Swag would get less of a punishment if he robbed a bank.

2017-01-02 13:37

explain please

2017-01-02 21:27

so fucking what, he wa still an adult and he needs to be responsible for his actions

2017-01-03 08:07

17-18 is not an adult you fucking moron. wtf is wrong with you... people are only allowed to drink after being 21 in US for a reason smart ass. "adult" by law doesn't mean shit.

2017-01-03 13:32

They should stay banned. The only exception people could even argue is Swag being a minor at the time.

2017-01-02 13:13

agree

2017-01-02 13:15

mushlings should be banned

2017-01-02 13:18

I agree

2017-01-02 13:39

Freeibp

2017-01-02 13:43

lmao fuck ibp and fuck your fakeflag, mr burgerking

2017-01-02 14:04

Get out of my country, rat.

2017-01-02 14:19

ibp is not going unban, go and cry in corner now.

2017-01-02 16:04

they have no ehtic, so they cant be pros. deal with it. Ste(a)ll(er), faggazed , swagay will never be pros cuz they are pieces of shit . i hope they can get vacbaned too in every counts they have

2017-01-02 16:11

Its not Ste(a)ll(er), its IBP STEAL you scrub.

2017-01-03 18:29

If they are unbanned then KQLY too

2017-01-02 16:23

I also think a ban lift would be fair. Valve have demonstrated and made a solid statement that if you get caught, you will be punished. 1½-2 years ban is more than enough. It is a severe enough punishment, if you are at the pro-level. For some semi pro or boarderline noname, you can still matchfix or whatever, and earn more money than you would playing. However, for the higher tiers or for players who have potential; or a future career it is a punishment to fear.

2017-01-02 16:33

Another thread about this? Accept it. They screwed up, they deserve the punishment for said crime.

2017-01-02 19:15

2017-01-02 19:16

CSGO betting has now been completely wiped, due to extensive CSGO gambling issues, scamming from big twitch/ youtube personalities, betting community invested, court cases against Valve

2017-01-02 20:26

good point, but did you consider the fact that this is completely irrelevant?

2017-01-02 21:27

look in the post please. i reposted it because it sounds retarded af

2017-01-02 21:27

oh sorry, didn't see. for OP: it's not relevant to ibp ban status if valve has removed skin betting.

2017-01-02 21:29

i think IBP players should be banned if they did like charity and stuff like Taz said.

2017-01-03 08:01

I don't, because even if valve removed skin gambling, there's still real money gambling. and they proved that they can't be trusted with the possibility of betting against themselves and ruining the integrity of the sport and stealing from their fans

2017-01-03 15:50

but still. a Dota 2 team did throw a game after the IBP incident. and they was banned only 1 year. its clearly that valve cares more about dota. better updates etc. Gaben travels to Shanghai every year to announce the final or whatever but never shows up to a cs go event?

2017-01-03 20:45

Swag would probably join a team, so would dazed, but AZK is a OW pro so dont think he would care, and dont think anyone would want steel on a team, at least not top tier.

2017-01-02 21:30

They should not be unbanned but free man kqly. Lifetime ban for cheats is wrong. 2years ban is sufficient

2017-01-02 21:48

Why are people so naive in this community? They believe iBP/Epsilon are the only teams that ever threw and they deserve the harshest punishment possible while other teams blatantly match fixed and bet on their own games, yet they don't deserve any punishment. Even believing ska didn't throw and deserves absolutely no punishment is hilarious. It was clear he threw and was said that he was to receive skins but it never happened. People only care about the end result, and whatever decision valve makes is always correct. Moral of the story is if you don't get caught nothing will happen to you. Even if you do get caught if there is no punishment, no one will care and people will forget about it. This community is filled with sheep that really don't deserve to have opinions of their own because their brains really can't function. Here is evidence of scandals that no one cares about anymore hltv.org/news/12476-csgolounge-on-bettin.. S1mple banned for cheating by ESL (no one cares because he wasn't banned by the all reliable VAC, another example of people only relying on valves decision) M0e blatantly cheating with blatant evidence. No one cares anymore but it doesn't matter cause he doesn't play pro.

2017-01-02 22:34

Gambling still exists...

2017-01-02 22:47

unban brax fuk the rest of them especially dazed and his tiny-penis fangays

2017-01-02 22:53

"- Most pros agree that the punishment that the players were given was too extreme and the pros are what make this game for the most part" Let's say only top30 teams are "pros". Can you supply a link to where 76 of the players are saying that? (most=atleast more than half). I must have missed it. "- CSGO betting has now been completely wiped, due to extensive CSGO gambling issues, scamming from big twitch/ youtube personalities, betting community invested, court cases against Valve" This makes 0 sense. "- Potentially hundreds of matches got fixed while these players did it and after they got caught" Why is this relevant? Any one else would get same treatment if caught. "- The players have expressed how sorry they are through several different networks and realised what they did was wrong, offered to do things outside of CSGO like educating the community about the problem associated with matchfixing" Hindsight is always 20/20. They are only sorry they got caught. TL;DR your post is bad and you should feel bad.

2017-01-02 22:56

Even Theft in the real world isn't treated this harshly lol. You pay a fine/serve jail time. People like Swag with a clean criminal record wouldn't serve 6 months in jail for a petty stupid crime such as this in the real criminal justice system xD

2017-01-03 04:11

they arent in jail. theyre just banned4life from a private competition in a proprietary piece of software. this isnt punishment. its just whats best for them. they cannot play for money without cheating. so they cant play.

2017-01-03 11:05

They are banned from playing a fucking GAME made by a private company. Go to your local hamburger joint, shit on the floor and you will get banned for life aswell. Go get a brain hamburger.

2017-01-03 18:30

Gamble - take risky action in the hope of a desired result.

2017-01-03 20:27

rip pepsilon

2017-01-03 04:15

2017-01-03 08:04