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#20
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Spain G3CK0 
>Nazis -Jews rob us -Adoctrinate children in school -Faking and idealising history -Detention of media -Sport as politic tool -Police from the regime (SS) >Catalonia -Spain rob us -Adoctrinate children in schools to hate spain -Faking and idealising history -Detention of media -Sport as politic tool -Police from the regime (Mossos)
2017-10-01 11:00
#23
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Spain Silber_ 
Plus fucking 1, people don't realise they are being used by the incompetent catalan government, it's not bad like they want people from outside to think it is, things are normal around here, just a bunch of adoctrinated People and immigrants making a lot of noise.
2017-10-01 11:10
#25
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Spain G3CK0 
They are oike fucking sheep lol
2017-10-01 11:11
#30
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United Kingdom AlywOw 
Is there any particular reason why Catalonia should be considered as independent?
2017-10-01 11:20
#40
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Spain G3CK0 
Not really
2017-10-01 11:30
#46
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United Kingdom AlywOw 
So it's just bunch of people that don't like the Spanish government and call for independency? That's childish, isn't it? Soon we can have all countries split into 10 different inter-countries lol.
2017-10-01 11:33
#48
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Spain G3CK0 
Omg, probably your the most coherent person I have met in this topic forums. Thanks
2017-10-01 11:34
THIS /CLOSE THREAD
2017-10-01 12:51
More like soon we will have feudalism and the laws of a militar dictatorship back again. God bless the Queen/King.
2017-10-05 00:37
there are also historical reasons. but obviously they are stupid because life goes on.
2017-10-05 02:21
That is the big mistake of Spain : when u want to unite a country u speak one language, period.
2017-10-01 11:37
-first country was already dependent and a renown european power -second country is a region unfairly occupied by spain that's being dragged down by it's shit economy
2017-10-01 11:52
#94
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Spain G3CK0 
Catalonian independence is also a danger for france, maybe your catalonian counties unite the spanish catalonian. You also have bretagne and french basque country
2017-10-01 12:12
i'm actually a catalonian french. It's different however, the catalan culture/sentiment died 200 years a go here. There's practically almost no catalan element anymore. It's sad, but ya. Maybe spain should've done the same :)
2017-10-01 12:59
Because spain is not as repressing with provinces as france
2017-10-01 15:03
Wasn't Catalonia part of the independent kingdom of Aragon that lasted for over 700 years? I don't know much about this conflict and i don't wanna take any sides, but how is it different from Scotland voting for independence for example?
2017-10-01 13:15
#259
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Spain G3CK0 
Castilia conquered aragon several times, and there is no inceoendence agreement. If Aragon was the one that wanted independence it would make more sense. But catalonia was a county in the reign of Aragon
2017-10-05 07:58
Funny u compare Catalans with Nazis. Do you know who had shown support for 'División Azul'? The spanish government.
2017-10-05 01:15
#21
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Poland Commonwealth 
You're all acting like Spain is bad, but all of you would do the same if you were about to lose a very important piece of your country. For example Poland and Germany losing Silesia.
2017-10-01 11:04
#22
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Croatia Jack Russell 
I don't think so. I would be sad but I believe everyone should have the right to vote about this if the political climate is right (like with Scotland).
2017-10-01 11:09
#27
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Spain Silber_ 
The problem is, that people Who want to split up are a minority, but they make a lot of noise. And the government took a bad position from the beggining and they cannot fix what's done, they have to stick with their position and the law now. If thet had allow a referendum like in England for the brexit from the begging everything would already be over and Catalonia would still be Spain, period.
2017-10-01 11:13
#31
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Croatia Jack Russell 
That's exactly what I had in mind - it's better to prevent it than to fix by force. Of course, you know more about this than me, but I did some research and talked to some Catalonian natives (Erasmus students lol) and realized this independence thing is a bit exaggerated.
2017-10-01 11:20
#38
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Spain Silber_ 
The problem is, people who are against are the people Who actually work and lift up the country, and they don't have time to argue, life goes on here, people go to work and stuff, but mostly students and people who are retired go riot, because for example (lived it by myself) in school you get teached catalan history and literature first, then the spanish ones, and the history you get told is biased towards catalonia, and not by little. Ex-catalonian president, Jordi Pujol, robbed us during more than 20 years! Millons of euros! And people who want independence still praise him, for example. There is a lot of manipulation also, to exaggerate things. The thing is the government fucked up in the beggining and now we don't have an easy fix.
2017-10-01 11:27
#42
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Spain G3CK0 
They treat catalonians as sheep
2017-10-01 11:31
#55
 | 
Croatia Jack Russell 
Sounds like a "statlemate" position tbh, I hope there won't be more trouble and violence. Btw how come everything is so calm in Basque country nowadays, I used to hear about ETA on the news regularly when I was younger, now it's all sorted out? btw Jordi Pujol - most Catalan name ever? :D
2017-10-01 11:42
ETA was disarmed and dismantled although their political leader is now free and supporting catalonia. Which means a terrorist supporting referendum
2017-10-01 15:00
how do you justify francos regime over catalonia?
2017-10-01 12:00
Why u bring up franco??
2017-10-01 15:00
#34
 | 
Poland Commonwealth 
You do keep in mind that let's say that all of your lands that are next to sea would be taken from you then your country would literally get completely destroyed? Catalonia has 20% of spanish GDP.
2017-10-01 11:25
#39
 | 
Spain Silber_ 
Catalonia needs spain to pay their debt (they would be not solvent without Spain) and Spain equally needs catalonia. The problem is both governments are not doing things right, Pp and Rajoy are dumb, but the catalan one is using the people to profit and using public money to pay for this while they keep getting richer.
2017-10-01 11:30
#52
 | 
Croatia Jack Russell 
I guess you're right. Here it's a close to impossible scenario, but maybe I would change my mind in that case. Anyway it's a complex question with many different perspectives and consequences, there are always winners and losers.
2017-10-01 11:38
#26
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Bulgaria BroN 
ofc you are right ,but this does not mean that catalonia are wrong ... i understand spanish ppl (cuz i probably will react the same way) ,but in the same time i support catalonia ,cuz they have the right to choose
2017-10-01 11:12
#61
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Croatia Jack Russell 
Guardia Civil has Twitter? Milion followers? What the fuck Spain lol.
2017-10-01 11:47
#92
 | 
Spain G3CK0 
Ofc it has twitter
2017-10-01 12:10
No they dont because the rest of spain has the right to choose
2017-10-01 14:58
free catalonia!!!
2017-10-01 11:15
why they just not chilling with spain and always want to be separated from whole country?
2017-10-01 11:22
because spain is a shit and poor country. The northern provinces are basically the core of spanish economy, especially catalonia. Most of spanish industry resides there, and catalonia is the richest province. Because of that there's a lot of economical differences between the southern and most of the central regions of spain because they can't compete as much economically.
2017-10-01 11:55
#100
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Spain leonsegui 
And it is like that because the spanish government put every resource in the industrial revolution of Spain in those regions, depite the others. Now they want to leave Spain after getting not only the money (includiong structural funds from eu) but the human and capital resources we had, people from andalusia had to go to catalonia and work there being exploded for years just because the government supported the industrial revolution in that regions, although they had some own resources and they were closer to Europe than the rest of Spain. But it still unfair.
2017-10-01 12:21
Sorry to say i live in the most industrialised province of spain and it isnt in catalonia. Although it is in the north
2017-10-01 14:56
Probably around Bilbao or Galicia. Don't deny it though, Barcelona also has a big share of the industry, more than most of provinces in center/south.
2017-10-01 19:05
Voting for independence aint democracy, it's a national treason thus it shouldn't be allowed as it only causes war and hatred.
2017-10-01 11:25
time to change that
2017-10-01 11:56
International law is more important than national law.
2017-10-01 12:47
International law doesnt support that either
2017-10-01 14:53
Sad.. Franco's Spain back again it seems... Destroying the basic democratic pool, a holy grail of western democracy... I hope that Spain will be sanctioned and I wish the independence to Catalonia ppl
2017-10-01 11:46
Catlonia have no international support
2017-10-01 14:53
Imagine hltv during ww3
2017-10-01 11:48
Maybe more relaxed than now kappa
2017-10-01 14:52
This shit's so similar to 1920's - 30's Spanish civil war about to start, an agressor annexing "historical territory" by breaking the law and forcing an "unbiased referendum", an asian country with huge ambitions threatening the US, a right wing party recieves more and more support on the german elections, the west not quiet helping against an agressor... shit's about to go real.
2017-10-01 11:48
#125
 | 
Poland Commonwealth 
And how exactly does "home war" in Spain has to do with WW3?
2017-10-01 13:13
Wtf is up with 2 of the same comments of mine being posted at the same time?
2017-10-01 14:42
Can you read? "This shit's so similar to 20's - 30's" And it did indeed have quiet a lot to do with ww2. The germans fought their first battles and tested all of their exuipment, so did the soviets. Also, that kinda closed the gap of tension between Italy and Germany (mussolini spoke against the german regime and called his ideology fake and gay), they've basically shown to each other that they have similar views on which way the world should be going.
2017-10-01 14:42
Had Catalonia in the past there own terroritory until Spain took it or is it the same like Kurdistan ?
2017-10-01 12:04
they had around 250 years of independence till 18th century
2017-10-01 12:14
False
2017-10-01 14:51
ok the first few times i thought they were yelling USA was like da fuck. but ya sucks for them..
2017-10-01 12:14
Lemme guess, the biggest support of Catalonia independence is coming from France?
2017-10-01 12:17
From UK actually
2017-10-01 12:18
They have absolutely no international support
2017-10-01 14:50
Are they afraid of getting Gibraltat taken from them or what?
2017-10-01 15:05
what are the chances of a 1936-1939 rematch?
2017-10-01 12:40
It wasnt spain vs catalonia. It was republicans vs a golpist general
2017-10-01 14:50
could say thing or two about Spain but you know it's us - Poland that's supposed to have problem with democracy 4Head still incidents are in the news so democracy is Spain is still in better shape than in Germany...
2017-10-01 13:10
Double standards. :)
2017-10-01 15:07
"democracy is Spain is still in better shape than in Germany..." ????????????????????????????????????
2017-10-01 15:21
Serbia supports full territorial integrity of Spain...
2017-10-01 13:08
Spain wouldnt vote against kosovo independence if they didnt had similar situation with Catalonia, otherwise they would say yes easily so fuck spain and fuck catalonia
2017-10-01 16:12
So why are you trying to explane me something that is quite obvious?
2017-10-01 19:20
Wasn't Catalonia part of the independent kingdom of Aragon that lasted for over 700 years? I don't know much about this conflict and i don't wanna take any sides, but how is it different from Scotland voting for independence for example?
2017-10-01 13:16
#131
 | 
Portugal Zedonp 
Not different from our stand point but alot different if you look at spanish law i think. Imo they should ahve the right to decide their fate, and stopping the votes was a very wrong move on their part, will lead to alot more complications and also put all EU eyes on their country.
2017-10-01 13:23
If u talk about history, catalonia has only been separsted from spain once when in th middle of war with france they treasoned spain and asked france to be part of them. Afterwards due to the fact that frech treat the provincew worse they came back.
2017-10-01 14:47
#149
 | 
Portugal Zedonp 
I'm not talking about history, i just believe All the spaniards should have a vote on the matter, and that the way they stopped the referendum was wrong.
2017-10-01 15:00
The spanishnlaw says that. What is the other way to stop referendum??
2017-10-01 15:01
why would you stop it? Oh wait you're democratic and constitutionalist
2017-10-01 15:05
as long as the constitution ... aka the highest law of a country after the human rights says that it's not allowed it is not allowed ... catalonians can cry as much as they want but it's illegal ...
2017-10-01 15:08
Are you justifying the police armed force against the people that are just trying to vote¿
2017-10-01 15:25
police is there to controle the law ... and the law says that this vote is illegal so the police got all rights to stop sth thats against that law ... they're just doing what they have to ...
2017-10-01 15:27
The national police is a way to opress the people, keep defending this kinda of shit, i have nothing to talk with you. These are the "human rights" and "law" that you defend? twitter.com/ExtremaduraRoja/status/91444.. twitter.com/ExtremaduraRoja/status/91439.. twitter.com/diariARA/status/914393481082.. twitter.com/edusalespifa/status/91442492..
2017-10-01 15:33
because people there arent saying any thing or fighting back
2017-10-01 15:44
Armed police against unarmed people, okay
2017-10-01 15:46
what u want police to be unarmed...
2017-10-01 15:47
#161
 | 
Portugal Zedonp 
imo if the referendum lead nowhere then they should've been allowed to vote. Dragging people out of there, and using mass police force is for sure not a reasonable way to do things. But also spanish government should take initiative in talking with the government of catalunha to reach a peacefull solution. What i saw was delays and reverted decisions from your government wich led to more fustration for the people of catalunha. Maybe its our TV that is not showing the whole picture but again i'm only talking from the informations i got, i might be wrong.
2017-10-01 15:06
Im completely opposed to the goverment but u have to know that judges order police not goverment
2017-10-01 15:09
#176
 | 
Portugal Zedonp 
They are in contact with each other and work together to stop this for sure. Btw why not make a referendum for the whole spain about this matter?
2017-10-01 15:20
catalans dont want that
2017-10-01 15:39
#202
 | 
Portugal Zedonp 
Ofc not, but it's not their decision to make alone. I agree with many of their points but even so they should respect the whole country, you either stick to the bad and the good or might as well not call themselves Spanish. I would take catalunha decision more seriously if it came before Spain entered EU, now that EU money is not coming as strong everyone wants their own independence.
2017-10-01 15:47
they even want to be part of the euro
2017-10-01 15:48
Yeah, this is democracy in EU. Don't forget to talk about 'totalitarianism' in Poland, just because we have our own opinion about Europe. But there is everything okay in Spain, right?
2017-10-01 15:20
why are you trying to make everything about poland? no one gives a fuck about poland the topic is catalonia
2017-10-01 15:22
#200
 | 
Europe Meoxik 
+1
2017-10-01 15:46
This guy is right, "no one gives a fuck about Poland" but UE parliament is saying that polish democracy is in danger so lets see what they gonna say about Spain after free beat up of people who had free choice of voting.
2017-10-01 16:33
when the spanish constitution says that you can't just vote for independence like that then they have no free choice of voting and what they do is illegal so the state is right to interfere even with force if needed.
2017-10-01 16:35
So what? let them vote and waste their time, if it is illegal it won't be counted anyway, you don't have to beat people.
2017-10-01 16:34
if they become their own state seems like some football teams like fc barcelona will be fucked up xd
2017-10-01 15:39
barcelona supports independence officialy so why be in spanish league??
2017-10-01 15:45
ye but it would ruin their football clubs they wont get any money in some shit catalonia league no classico no top matches anymore etc
2017-10-01 15:50
then fuck them
2017-10-01 15:50
the top matches their would be fc b vs espanyol or against girona
2017-10-01 15:51
and lhospitalet
2017-10-01 15:59
la liga would lose more. Barca can easily join french league and make as much money, la liga on the other hand..
2017-10-05 00:23
but i doubt they would join the lique 1 but if they do it in my opinion they should invite all the teams from their to play in their leagues like espanyol girona etc
2017-10-05 00:27
if they have no choice, they'll join it. Ligue 1 president is very open about it and said he doesn't mind them coming. Barca coming to ligue 1 will benefit both parties, while spain suffers in la liga. Of course they're going to find a solution for that, but it's all barcelona that matters. None gives a shit about espanyol or whatever
2017-10-05 00:49
espanyol would be a solid top10 team in france
2017-10-05 00:52
yeah but still, i'm talking about what matters. Barca will bring a shit ton of money, and honestly, i can very well see a triple rivalry between PSG, monaco and barca easily develop.
2017-10-05 01:09
The same thing happened in Kosovo, the EU supported Kosovo's independence and there are problems. First, Scotland sought independence, now the Catalonia ....... The EU said that everyone has the right to call a referendum, if the majority of the population agrees
2017-10-01 15:48
Actually Kosovo is a one-of-a-kind and exceptional case that can not be applied to any other one. Even if pro-independents have tried to compare their case to it. Scotland, in order to be able to organize their referendum, needed for the British government to allow it. Additionally it is seen as a valid example as to how things should be done: both sides exposing the pros and the cons of the outcome of the referendum. If the EU did state that everyone has the right to call a referendum it was in the light of it being a negotiated, and ultimately legal, one. Even though there was a lapses on behalf of Jean Claude Juncker erroneously hinting that the Catalonian one was acceptable; the pro-independents obviously tried to take the most of this lapses. Despite the obvious fact that it goes against the European treaties that ask to respect the territorial integrity of the EU members. As you can see, even though the frustration of the Catalonian people is understandable, it does not mean that automatically the referendum is or should be legal. Especially since it isn't actually a referendum at all. It is just a farce organized on behalf of the secessionist Catalonian government to backup the agreements already passed by the local parliament; a passing that, unsurprisingly, also ignored each and every law applicable. In the end, what has happended? The national police, as usual in most of the cases, did not know how to act in this kind of situations; not even the local one who ignored their legal duties and are also known for their reprehensible behaviour in the past. Both governments have also failed. The national one being incompetent with regard to ignoring how to best deal with this kind of situation and leaving it all to the judges who are the ones that are commanding the police forces; and the regional one by desperately seeking the confrontation and the violent outcome each and everyone has witnessed today. As we say around here, birds of a feather flock together.
2017-10-01 20:05
Kosovo is a unique and exceptional case that can not be applied to any one else. Why, please explain what the difference is? The Albanians wanted a state in the territory that belongs to Serbia, they got it. According to the Serbian Constitution, they do not have that right. The other story is if we look at Montenegro, it had the constitutional right to secede from Serbia What I want to say is that Kosovo declared independence and thus violated the constitutional law of the Republic of Serbia.
2017-10-01 23:29
From the legal point of view, The International Court of Justice, when it was consulted, ruled it that way on basis of the 'factual context', one-of-a-kind and exclusive to Kosovo.
2017-10-02 19:40
You're wrong, but it does not matter. People from the EU will never understand the Balkan problems
2017-10-03 00:53
According to you, what did the International Court of Justice rule then?
2017-10-03 13:44
The International Court of Justice, it's all a capitalist gang that when you pay well work for your benefit ...... And why they supported Kosovo's independence, read here: "you need to translate" newsweek.rs/serbia/81213-sokantni-cia-iz.. So the United States supported the Kosovo extremists (they gave them a consent to form the state), and these extremists gave the Trepça mine as a support award. So I tell you, if you pay well, you will have the support of all courts
2017-10-03 17:06
I refer to the ICJ and you bring up some CIA whatever scheme? Additionally the Kosovo Independence was suggested by the United Nations Special Envoy for Kosovo as 'the only viable solution' thus in the end it was the UN itself who appeared as the speaker for it. That is why the IJC included a second argument in its ruling where it states that the 1.244 resolution did not include an specific prohibition to proclaim the independence. As you can see more than being 'a capitalist gang' it simply replied to what it was consulted about, that Kosovo did not break the law and not if there was a right to proclaim the independence. And this is a important difference as that prohibition was indeed set when the Security Council referred to the Republika Srpska in its 787 resolution. Unless, of course, each and everyone is 'a capitalist gang' too.
2017-10-03 17:43
Okay, who was that special UN envoy? How can one person decide on the state issues of a sovereign country? btw: Maybe independence of Catalonia is 'the only viable solution' ?
2017-10-03 19:49
It was Martti Ahtisaari who, unsurprisingly, was sought to be discredited by the local Balkan media that was against that proposal. A proposal made in the light of knowing that with the European Union Rule of Law Mission in Kosovo (EULEX Kosovo) the (former) Serbian province had been disconnect and run independently from (the rest) of Serbia during 10 years with a political structure on its own. As for Catalonia, ignoring the 60% of the local population who do not support the current process, branding those who publicly do speak against it as fascist and, besides ignoring the Constitution, knowingly ignoring the local laws for their own political benefit...does that sound like 'the only viable solution' to you? I am aware that you used that expression to compare it - maybe even mockingly - with that of Kosovo but just as you should blame those who screwed up the relationship with Kosovo and precipitated this unwanted outcome, I am blaming the secessionists; who, with the help of the national incompetents, are fooling everyone pretty well as far as I see.
2017-10-04 18:46
#224
 | 
France MrTasy 
Catalonia LUL they are maybe the richest part of spain but if they get their independence they will need to left the europe and their money will worth nothing. Inb4 they become the poorest country in Europe LUL
2017-10-01 18:42
#227
 | 
France MrTasy 
They'll be alone without any help and will need to create a new money tfw if you join the europe and use the euro as a money you become dependant of the Eu
2017-10-01 18:44
+1 Don't know if the poorest, but they are doing worse for them with their own hand. They will fuck up and we will stay laughing about how they struggle like idiots.
2017-10-03 17:46
#226
 | 
Brazil bvkzin 
free catalonia
2017-10-01 18:44
Whoever wants to free Catalonia is free, but they are doing worse for them with their own hand. They're just idiots, thinking that independent, they will be better.
2017-10-03 17:45
I hope Spain crushes the separatists. separatism is an evil in the world.
2017-10-04 09:13
#244
 | 
Other Kiley 
Before this thread gets closed or my account shut down: When you sleep only 2h in a day and a half and spend 13h in a row with your family defending the people's vote in a school from being raided by brutal and abusive forces (who almost did it) the last thing you expect is to read so many empathic comments towards Catalunya. I just want to say thank you so much! and for those who are curious about what's happening here, just search for neutral international coverage because Spanish media is incredibly manipulated and Spaniards will say the same about Catalan one. One last big hug to every democratic buddy in this site and for those who calls us illegal just remember that Spain will always turn illegal any single try of Catalunya to know what his people thinks. Hopefully someday both sides will sit and talk.
2017-10-04 18:55
you're full of shit. and that referendum is full of shit. before it even started, boxes were already filled with "YES"'s. you have to debate the law not disobey it.
2017-10-05 02:23
#257
 | 
Other Kiley 
This was the kind of comment i was expecting xDD. To understand whats happening you have to be here or at least dont believe every bullshit around in the inet cos that boxes statement is beyond ridiculous. You have a lot of neutral witness but no will to seek the truth.
2017-10-05 02:54
No you don't. You don't need to be in Roman empire to know what it was like.
2017-10-05 18:10
#262
 | 
Other Kiley 
Think what you want, you are manipulated and even workers in Television Española are protesting against Spanish media manipulation (yes your own media workers). There is no point on keep discussing this so think what you want. Also.. you think and talk like and spainard and and even your nick is a fail, in Latin: Skull = Cranium not Calaverum (in spanish Calavera = skull). I dont know why you need to fakeflag to attack others with your lies.
2017-10-05 18:19
maybe it was supposed to be calavera but it was already used. and it's not because I have a "spanish" nickname that I am spanish. It's not fakeflag. My nickname is in honor of the great Manuel Calavera from Grim Fandango.
2017-10-05 20:01
and no, im not being manipulated, you are. Gracias i adios mi amigo
2017-10-05 20:03
#266
 | 
Other Kiley 
Nice arguments, adeu.
2017-10-05 20:08
wait, did you gave me arguments?
2017-10-05 20:19
#269
 | 
Other Kiley 
2017-10-05 20:21
#256
 | 
Argentina YH!one 
#FreeCatalunya
2017-10-05 02:41
#263
 | 
Norway Napapijri 
Welcome to Russia, Catalonia! :)
2017-10-05 18:21
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