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CZ BALANCE
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Cz is perfectly fine. Only noobs and salty pros think it‘s not. People only say it needs to be nerfed because 5-7 and Tec9 became useless and everyone started using the CZ. You can only loose antiforce buys to CZ if you play the round badly ( no utility usage, going to apps on inferno, etc)
2018-04-23 13:09
#1
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Seems like i am the only rational person here.
2018-04-23 13:12
#48
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Netherlands MerpNL 
seems like u are the only retarded person here.
2018-04-23 14:53
#50
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Great argument
2018-04-23 14:54
#51
 | 
Netherlands MerpNL 
thx kind sir!
2018-04-23 14:54
#124
 | 
Cyprus Sotiris 
+1
2018-04-24 13:02
#102
 | 
Netherlands MillkePlease 
Great argument
2018-04-24 10:26
#103
 | 
Germany cuzican 
There are a lot of my amazing arguments in this thread. :-)
2018-04-24 10:47
#106
 | 
Poland Kresowy 
I agree, pistols should be good, it makes game more dynamic, it was absurd that securing pistols gave you free 3 rounds, now when you win pistols you are still in the advantage but when you play stupid or oponent plays godlike you are more prone to lose it 5-7, tec 9, should be better p250 cheap but sliglyy better agaiins armored than defoult pistol
2018-04-24 11:54
lol, OP af gun, I guess if u are noob u wouldn't realize this tho...
2018-04-23 13:13
#5
 | 
Germany cuzican 
How is it op?
2018-04-23 13:14
#28
fnx | 
Netherlands BarraCSGO 
well close range it is a 50/50 fight against AK. close range is a 1 shot close range. Even a m4 is not a 1 shot on close range so how is this pistol not op????
2018-04-23 13:53
#41
 | 
United States drobotgamer 
Can't 1 shot a helmet just like an M4
2018-04-23 14:42
It can. If you stand LITERALLY next to your enemy, like hugging him. 1-shot inc.
2018-04-23 22:58
#82
 | 
United States drobotgamer 
It can't
2018-04-23 23:24
Dude, trust me, it can. If not, go test it yourself in an offline server.
2018-04-23 23:28
#114
 | 
Korea dev1sta 
just don't hug ur opponents and it will be fine
2018-04-24 12:39
wtf you talking about it can do 100 dmg
2018-04-24 07:04
#91
 | 
France DKdarKnight 
101 dmg exaclty at close range
2018-04-24 07:16
#153
 | 
United States drobotgamer 
I have to say I tested it personally but I'll admit I stand corrected
2018-04-24 14:31
#60
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Read my other comments to see how wrong you are.
2018-04-23 15:05
#220
 | 
Japan GR8B8M8IR888 
Why woud you close range with ak?
2018-04-25 00:32
#222
fnx | 
Netherlands BarraCSGO 
Maybe you don´t wanna be close range but sometimes its just happen. Lurking palace and cz w8ting. I prefer getting killed long range to a deagle because it needed some skill instead off being dead against cz on close range (:
2018-04-25 11:06
#30
flusha | 
Germany Kupferr 
I have never used it myself, since I stopped playing before it became this strong, but the running acc seems stupid - In pro matches there are way too many running headshots with the cz
2018-04-23 13:56
it was so much worse with the tec9 in 2015/16
2018-04-23 17:19
it didnt become this strong.. it was like this for a long time people just didnt use it because 5 7 and tec
2018-04-24 16:34
#149
 | 
Denmark U w0t m8? 
Did you see Dreamhack Marseille? It was basically 60/40 wether to the cz with duels against ak on close range, and too many rounds was won because of a 500$ investment. It ruins the flow of the game.
2018-04-24 14:26
+1 cs got bigger, noobs cant play against noob guns, so their logic is the same logic as LoL or dota fans: "omg I cant get better, so I DEMAND you valve, to nerf all the guns till I can play."
2018-04-23 13:13
#6
Noobster | 
Lithuania zilvA 
shut the fck up
2018-04-23 13:14
#11
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Nice argument
2018-04-23 13:16
I arent think that :c
2018-04-23 13:18
#21
 | 
Europe RBN_FRT 
+1 totally agree...
2018-04-23 13:22
+111111
2018-04-23 19:34
-(-1)
2018-04-24 14:57
#4
FalleN | 
Germany NumsaB 
Not 100% balanced. To lose antiforce to CZ you don't need to be playing the round badly, can be the enemies reading you or making good plays by themselves.
2018-04-23 13:13
#8
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Nope, it‘s impossible to lose to CZs. If both teams play the round perfectly, the full bought team will always win no matter what.
2018-04-23 13:15
#17
FalleN | 
Germany NumsaB 
Wrong statement. It's not possible that both teams play the round perfectly, because then they would always know what the enemy is doing and therefor countering it which leads to more counters etc Losing to CZ shouldn't happen, but sometimes you can't prevent it. Depends on luck too.
2018-04-23 13:19
#22
 | 
Germany cuzican 
It‘s not a wrong statement. It‘s hypothesis which is perfectly reasonable. Every single round that‘s lost to a team equipped with CZ‘s can be attributed to one of the following factors: - Bad Spacing - Bad utility usage - Going CQC - Throwing
2018-04-23 13:22
#25
FalleN | 
Germany NumsaB 
Don't forget bad aiming. Big factor. If the enemies aim like gods with CZ and prefire luckily you can't do anything but die. Also it is literally impossible to play rounds perfectly. If it would be like you are saying then no proteam would ever lose a round against CZ, because they are the best and consider all risks etc? Yet they do.
2018-04-23 13:26
#40
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Yes, if an entire team whiffs their shots they are going to loose against CZs. But this argument can be applied to every single round aswell, so it's completely irrelevant. Aim is the premise for winning gun fights, not sure why you would think it's an argument? You hardly can prefire with a CZ when you're mollied, blinded or forced out of a position. Also the CZ has 12 bullets with a long ass reload time, nobody that's semiskilled prefires with the CZ. Ammo conservation is the key with this gun. And yes, obviously pro teams loose to CZs. But that has nothing to do with the CZ being OP, but because of a multitude of factors: -> Teams nowadays play a lot more scrimmy and rely heavily on their aim and raw skill ( Best examples are Faze, Navi, Cloud9 ). There is very little structure in CS right now. -> Teams had a bad read and ran into a stack -> Teams had a bad read on enemies economy and didn't expect CZ's / a force buy ( teams nowadays manage their economy a lot different than some time ago, force buys seem to be the current meta ) You have no arguments, i am sorry
2018-04-23 14:38
#45
FalleN | 
Germany NumsaB 
It's not about an entire team whiffing their shots. One player not being 100% onpoint with a rifle against a player with a CZ that hits an absolutely insane shot can be the beginning of a lost round against a force buy (even though they did everyhing perfectly). You can't predict exactly what the enemy is doing in a force buy round and therefor you HAVE to take risks. You always do and there is no alternative. Taking these risks, which is unavoidable, CAN lead to losing a round. I do understand what you are saying, but still your statement "...impossible to lose against CZ" is wrong and you even gave arguments. Obviously force buy rounds can also be won by some SMG, P250 or Deagle. But the CZ makes it a lot easier due to the high bullet-rate, precise first shots from distance and capability of killing enemies fast in general.
2018-04-23 14:50
#55
 | 
Germany cuzican 
That's why it's the dumbest thing in the world to play a default against a force buy. You set up for an execute with decent utility usage (specially mollies and flashes) and enter the site with decent spacing. Ofc i am talking in hyperboles when i am saying that it's impossible to loose against CZs, but if the approach to the round is the correct one, which is: -> Fast paced execute with well used utility -> Decent spacing for tradefragging and teams don't go to CQC areas such as: Mirage B Apps Inferno A Apps Cobble A Long / Danger Cache Checkers Overpass Connector / Bathrooms you win 19/20 antiforce rounds, guaranteed.
2018-04-23 15:00
#62
FalleN | 
Germany NumsaB 
I can kinda agree on that, with the addition that every fast paced execute with perfect utility etc can fail if the enemy team is able to get some lucky flashes/timings/... That's the risk I am talking about. You never know how the enemy approaches the round and what setups/counterplays they use. You can minimize the risk of losing but it will always be there. Would rather say you'd win 9/10, but I think I won't be able to convince you there. Have a nice day
2018-04-23 15:11
#67
 | 
Germany cuzican 
I think we pretty much are on even ground now.
2018-04-23 15:31
#78
NAF | 
United States Jammin800k 
I really enjoyed reading that. So often when I see "CZ OP" spam the play is a direct result of a a player hitting a timing that he shouldn't be allowed to (is in a position he shouldn't be allowed to get to or hits a smoke timing whether it be before an execute or as CT is pulling out utility when he shouldn't) or winning a gunfight where an enemy player attempts to play close vs CZs.
2018-04-23 20:10
#79
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Yep, exactly that. Obviously the force bought team can be unlucky with it‘s timing and catch the full bought team offguard by pushing a smoke or something, but that‘s not the norm and can be easily countered.
2018-04-23 21:37
You can't avoid going CQC if you're T on anti-eco.
2018-04-24 13:00
So what? They forced and bought CZ's and if they make a good play/play the round better they deserve it. Most of the time it doesn't work, if the chance would be like 50% which is far from that then yeah it would be OP. Less damage and fast draw would be nice and would make it more balanced tho imo.
2018-04-24 07:14
cause everythings was is and will be perfect
2018-04-23 13:22
Even pros teams lose to cz’s often
2018-04-23 13:26
"Going to apps on inferno" EXACTLY. The first thing i explain to my teams when i start to pracc inferno is that you NEVER go to apps against a force
2018-04-23 13:14
#10
 | 
Germany cuzican 
I don‘t get why people actually need an explanation for that. Spacing is the most vital part about antiforce rounds, next to utility usage.
2018-04-23 13:16
#32
 | 
Poland bot_taz 
ez knife in the back just go apps please
2018-04-23 14:04
#9
 | 
United Kingdom swellis 
Deagle running accuracy is the problem
2018-04-23 13:15
#12
 | 
Netherlands Deji 
Shit bait
2018-04-23 13:16
#16
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Explain how it is a bait by delivering arguments, other than that you just get dismissed as a trollzor! :-)
2018-04-23 13:18
#18
 | 
Netherlands Deji 
$500 pistol can win duels vs AK
2018-04-23 13:19
#19
 | 
Germany cuzican 
So can a 200$ USP. Your point?
2018-04-23 13:20
#23
 | 
Europe RBN_FRT 
u mean free usp
2018-04-23 13:23
+1
2018-04-23 13:48
CZ is too good for the cost and has high running accuracy which diminishes some of the skill required to use it. I don’t hate it but I think that it should be made harder to use.
2018-04-24 14:34
#160
 | 
Germany cuzican 
The CZ has 12 bullets that are gone within less a second when sprayed, has a long reload time, is the most inaccurate pistol besides the dualies and only gives 100$ kill bonus. It's only viable in close quarters and the high running accuracy thing is a myth. Join a server and spray a clip while running at a wall that'S more than 5 ft away from you.
2018-04-24 14:39
“The high running accuracy is a myth” LUL, watch literally any pro game and I can guarantee there will be running cuz kills in there. The fact of the matter is that it is less than a fifth of the AK’s price and it is almost as good if you just hold a close angle. If the movement accuracy or fire rate was needed to make it a more skill based gun it would be fine, but as it is it needs a balance change.
2018-04-24 15:12
#193
 | 
Germany cuzican 
I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
2018-04-24 15:20
+1
2018-04-23 13:16
#15
 | 
France axel_ko 
+1 the truth has been spoke
2018-04-23 13:18
#24
VulkaN | 
Austria iVolkan 
1+ there was always an OP pistol. no matter what valve will do. atleast CZ adds some spice to the matches and Ecos are not 100% losses
2018-04-23 13:24
u are calling all pro players "noob" CZ stats are fine but they need to make it 700$ imo
2018-04-23 13:54
#34
 | 
United States Farrukh_M 
$700 is a bit much, seeing as many pros would prefer the Deagle over the CZ in that situation, but maybe $600 or keeping it at $500 but reducing the firerate slightly.
2018-04-23 14:09
#38
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Increase your reading comprehension, i never called any pro noobs.
2018-04-23 14:33
most of the pro players say the CZ is overpowered "Cz is perfectly fine. Only noobs and salty pros think it‘s not. "
2018-04-23 15:12
#65
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Thanks for proving my point. Do you have problems with the translation? If you want i can help.
2018-04-23 15:30
omg... du bist ein idiot hahahaha
2018-04-23 16:11
#71
 | 
Germany cuzican 
„omg... du bist ein idiot hahahaha“ Sagt der Typ der einfachstes Englisch nicht versteht. Ich übersetz dann mal für dich Hauptschüler: Die CZ ist vollkommen in Ordnung, nur Noobs und abgefuckte Pros sagen sie sei es nicht. In keinem Punkt des Satzes bezeichne ich Pros als Noobs. Hoffe du verstehst das jetzt. Kannst du froh sein dass Deutschland ein Sozialstaat ist und du später auf Kosten von Leuten wie mir leben kannst. Mein Gott, wie kann man so eine schlechte Bildung haben?
2018-04-23 17:11
noobs and salty pros EU brain
2018-04-23 17:11
#90
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Nice baits
2018-04-24 07:16
#97
 | 
Turkey Styyx 
Maybe we should look at the real idiot here
2018-04-24 08:10
#31
 | 
India bluejayylmao 
I agree. Playing with a CZ is really tough, you need to hold tight angles and chokepoints which are usually mollied anyway. I do agree that it should be $600 or more, though.
2018-04-23 14:00
#33
 | 
United States Farrukh_M 
Some CZ Stats: -600 RPM Firerate -$500 Price -33 Damage per shot -100 penetration power Some AK Stats: -600 RPM Firerate -$2700 Price -36 Damage per shot -200 penetration power To say that people are complaining about it are just "noobs" or "salty pros" is a ridiculous claim. Yes there are situations where pros have played it terribly, but there are also situations where a pro has played it pretty well, but the other team also played the eco with the CZs very well. The win-rate for rounds like that is too high for such a small investment, and the team is usually able to buy normally anyways afterwards so it is a small investment, meaning low risk, high reward, which is not how the game should work. Many people are just calling for a nerf that would make it less effective at winning rounds just because one sat in some off position and was able to get a double kill with it because of its fast firerate. You should be forced to hit the headshot or not have much chance of winning the duel with the CZ, not miss the headshot but still manage to find the kill by spraying it like an AK, even if you get traded immediately. Maybe decreasing the firerate slightly would still make it viable to win rounds like that, but also requiring the team playing the eco to play more carefully.
2018-04-23 14:08
#35
 | 
Romania Colt101 
+1
2018-04-23 14:11
#37
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Completely irrelevant argument, when you only look at the stats that are convenient for you. CZ has one of the lowest accuracy and highest RNG in it's spray. It is completely useless on long range fights and if a team has decent spacing and utility usage, kills are either negated completely or they will get traded immediately. It's not a ridicoulus claim at all. The argument many people make that "even pros lose to the CZ" is so dumbfounded , i don't know how to reply to that. The CZ is perfectly fine and needs no changes. What needs changes is the general approach towards the game which shifted to a more puggy kind of style instead of structured CS. Teams take unnecessary risks and rely heavily on their aim and raw skill ( Faze is the best example for this ), instead of properly playing rounds out.
2018-04-23 14:33
#39
 | 
United States Farrukh_M 
You didn't make any argument in your original statement other than "salty pros" and "noobs." Of course it is very low in accuracy and highest RNG in spray, but it is still very accurate while running an spraying, meaning that even if a close quarters position is mollied out, the CZ player can be running out while spraying at someone and still easily kill them. That is why when there are long range fights, one or two players will also buy a deagle. A CZ-Deagle investment has an extremely high chance of winning a round if it is played well, even if the other team plays a rifle round very well. It is not just about teams just running into sites, it's also that because these guns are still pistols, they still have a lot of accuracy when moving, have faster movement speed, and they are MUCH cheaper.
2018-04-23 14:37
#42
 | 
Germany cuzican 
And this is were spacing comes into action. Even if a running CZ gets a kill, despite being blinded and mollied and what not, it should instantly be traded. A CZ Deagle investment has only a high chance of winning against poorly structured teams. There is a reason why teams like Faze constantly loose antiforce buy rounds, but Astralis not so much. And i don't know where the myth came from that the CZ has insane running accuracy. Join a server and spray a clip while strafing, it's complete RNG. And yes, i made arguments in my initial statement, which was that if an antiforce round is played well enough with correct spacing and utility usage, the stars have to align for the team with CZs. You are just one of those persons that quotes what pros and analyst say, without rationally analyzing the real situation. Yes, you can win a forcebuy with CZs and deagles against a fully bought team. But for that to happen the other team has to play the round very poorly or run into a stack ( in which they still should have the upper hand with correct utility placement ).
2018-04-23 14:44
#44
 | 
United States Farrukh_M 
I didn't quote a single pro or analyst, I simply stated the stats, and other factors that are not explained directly by the stats, and the fact that most teams lose a lot of these anti-ecos. You talk about Astralis being a team that approaches every round tactically, which is true, but even they lost many of these types of rounds. You most definitely did not see the Astralis vs Fnatic game yesterday. In one of the halves, until the 10th round, both Astralis and Fnatic were losing these low buy CZ/Deagle rounds on Mirage. It wasn't until around round 10 where fnatic converted their eco round win to another round. Even Astralis couldn't find an answer to the CZ's for almost half of an entire map.
2018-04-23 14:49
#47
 | 
Germany cuzican 
I saw the match and the reason for the back and forth was a lack of utility. Not sure how often i have to say it, but utility and spacing is key. Oh and there was 4 CZ rounds for fnatic and 2 for astralis, not a lot in my book.
2018-04-23 14:53
#53
 | 
United States Farrukh_M 
So an SMG buy with scouts and M4s should still be won by another team that just invested around $1000 per player to buy CZ armor and maybe a little more on another player for a flash or smoke? That right there shows that the CZ is unbalanced. The fact that you need thousands of dollars of utility to be able to consistently win vs a simple CZ armor round when they just have to spend a minimal amount and still likely get 1 or 2 kills shows that it is a little bit overpowered. A small nerf wouldn't make it useless, but it would also prevent it from damaging the economy to that far of an extent.
2018-04-23 14:55
#58
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Utility would be mandatory even if CZ's wouldn't exist, not sure what you're getting at. Do you want people to be able to play Antiforce rounds with Mac10s and armor and nothing more or what? And no, a nerf of the CZ would feed even more into the antistrategic CS we've been seeing for a while now. Teams should just treat antiforce buys with the appropriate amount of respect and seriousness, instead of money farming rounds. Because from my observations most rounds that are lost to a CZ have been due to the overextention from one or more players, going 1 by 1 into CQC fights or just poor utility usage.
2018-04-23 15:04
#84
 | 
Poland ToxoFox 
Fuck off. There is no rng in spraying, its pattern is stable
2018-04-23 23:29
#85
 | 
Germany cuzican 
It‘s not though. Hilarious how little you know.
2018-04-24 06:59
#112
 | 
Poland ToxoFox 
It has a spray pattern... check it out before you talk shit. You can use cz on spray training maps and it will always get it accurate 100%
2018-04-24 12:35
#115
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Wrong.
2018-04-24 12:40
#139
NAF | 
Slovakia t4gg3d 
He is right lmfao, -8/8 b8 thread
2018-04-24 14:07
#144
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Guess eastern european stupidity serves as a magnet
2018-04-24 14:18
#148
 | 
Germany cuzican 
What is this link supposed to show me?
2018-04-24 14:24
#151
NAF | 
Slovakia t4gg3d 
The CZ75-Auto can be used to quickly eliminate one single enemy target at short to medium range by spraying bullets. Recoil from the CZ75-Auto doesn't push the gun upwards, but for some reason most commonly sideways, at first to the left, then right and then left again with just a slight smooth upward push.
2018-04-24 14:29
#161
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Yes, the gun has a recoil pattern very obviously but it's highly affected by it's inaccuracy and bullet spread, hence making it basically nonexistent
2018-04-24 14:40
#169
NAF | 
Slovakia t4gg3d 
But I basically proved you wrong - the CZ has a spray pattern. Have a nice day! (also don’t be so toxic)
2018-04-24 14:47
#173
 | 
Germany cuzican 
I am not toxic, i am just being truthful. And no, you hardly proved me wrong as the spray pattern never is the same, not even roughly, because bullet deviation.
2018-04-24 14:51
#176
NAF | 
Slovakia t4gg3d 
But it has a spray pattern, that’s what matters, it’s different by an inch at most.. Also "Guess eastern european stupidity serves as a magnet" "Fucking bellend with no understanding of CS" Cheers up!
2018-04-24 14:53
#177
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Both statements were stating the truth. And no, the bullet deviation is insane.
2018-04-24 14:54
#179
NAF | 
Slovakia t4gg3d 
If I could learn the spray pattern of the CZ, any1 can (not even kidding, it’s literally different by an inch every time, that’s not much) "Fucking" "eastern european stupidity serves as a magnet"
2018-04-24 14:55
Rng pistols and people demand to remove force buys LOL Pistol rounds should be removed then
2018-04-24 12:01
#116
 | 
Germany cuzican 
What are you talking about?
2018-04-24 12:41
That there's no valid reason to nerf cz as USP/Glock are far more random shit Which gives you usually 0-3, 0-6 or vice versa Cz the only thing i do not cry about in this bugged shit called csgo 2750 elo so im not mmbot
2018-04-24 14:00
Casting "talent" and "analysts" all jumping on a bandwagon, unable to have a true opinion of their own. The fact is that the CZ has not changed (significantly) since it was introduced. There was a nerf I think in 2015 which reduced fire rate and ammo capacity if I remember correctly but that was reverted only a little while later. So it is essentially the same gun it always has been yet now all of a sudden it needs "fixing"? I am very glad that valve do not hastily jump to update their game based on the opinion of redditards and youtubers. In the hands of another dev it might be a very different story. Good boys Valve.
2018-04-23 14:15
#43
 | 
Germany cuzican 
It actually got nerfed quite a lot in terms of his drawing animation, which is substantially longer than before it's nerf. But yes, people just jump on this bandwagon without having a clue what they're talking about.
2018-04-23 14:46
#46
 | 
Portugal RKO23 
jesus , you're so fucking annoying... i guess you're a pro then.... at being annoying...
2018-04-23 14:51
#49
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Are you mad because you lost your recent MGE match because of a lost antiforce round?
2018-04-23 14:54
#57
 | 
Portugal RKO23 
why would i be mad ? even after i stopped playing cs for 1 month now? you're the only one that doesnt realize that this game is filt with shit? proof? look at valve..
2018-04-23 15:02
#59
 | 
Germany cuzican 
I think you're not worth my time to be honest.
2018-04-23 15:05
#64
 | 
Portugal RKO23 
i am not? lol you're so self-centered ahahahha
2018-04-23 15:18
#66
 | 
Germany cuzican 
I am not self-centered but interested in coherent discussions, which i am fairly certain of you can not provide.
2018-04-23 15:30
#70
 | 
Portugal RKO23 
lol............. k then...
2018-04-23 16:21
a weapon that can make the eco team steal rounds is healthy for the game. make it $600 and will be just fine.
2018-04-23 14:54
#54
 | 
United States Farrukh_M 
No it's ok, if you have a different opinion you are just hopping on the bandwagon and your argument is irrelevant.
2018-04-23 14:59
+1 000 000
2018-04-23 15:00
#61
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Appreciate your +1000000 :-)
2018-04-23 15:08
ty
2018-04-24 16:31
#68
ZELIN | 
Portugal cautela 
It can be bought by both teams and the fact that its OP makes the game better. Force rounds make the game unpredictable and if there is no OP gun most the times it would be a waste to force your buys. I think cz makes the game more interesting and more tactical so stop asking for nerfs. IMO
2018-04-23 15:35
calling 5-7 useless, literally braindead shit
2018-04-23 17:13
#76
 | 
Germany cuzican 
A lot of pros use it, how could i be so wrong 🤔
2018-04-23 19:31
DMG spotted
2018-04-24 12:03
havent been playing mm for 3years btw, nt, 5-7 1tap easy, cz only 89 or some shit
2018-04-24 14:51
y from what distance? 57 is total garbage after nerf and it's as viable as Nova
2018-04-24 15:44
5-7 is op as fuck, ur just using cz, cuz professional players are using it
2018-04-24 15:46
I have over 2.7k elo you bot
2018-04-24 16:04
so? elo doesnt say how good u are btw xD
2018-04-24 16:13
CZ is good at short range, at long range you need a very good aim or a full mag with luck It's used in force buys so the ennemies probably have good weapons and they just need to not rush into a CZ like retarded silvers Stop hating on CZ, if you find it too OP then use it or buy a tec9 and get rekt. I play CZ and i don't feel guilty, i use it in force buy rounds to get 1 or 2 kills and then take an enemy gun to end round. Txh for reading this if you did
2018-04-23 17:16
#80
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Yup, this
2018-04-23 22:54
100 percent agree if you complain you probably silver noob lol
2018-04-24 07:04
How do so many people fall for this?
2018-04-24 07:11
#93
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Fall for what? Completely reasoneable arguments which you only can refute by whining „hurr durr, a 500$ pistol shouldnt be able to kill a person with 5000$ loadout“ Yeah no, that‘s no argument. If that is your argument, you might aswell remove every single weapon other than rifles, because why should a cheaper gun be able to kill soneone with a better gun amirite? Fucking bellend with no understanding of CS
2018-04-24 07:20
I never made any argument btw
2018-04-24 07:23
#92
 | 
Ukraine ph3n0m3n 
I think CZ should have lower armor penetration. Killing someone with CZ w/ headshot close-range is fine. But burst fire instakill into full-armored body is bullshit.
2018-04-24 07:17
#94
rain | 
Venezuela Kremator 
"Decent Spacing" OmegaLUL it's not like T side must plant the fucking bomb in a place surrounded by boxes/walls everytime so a CZ player can lurk and kill the remaining bomb planter in the last 20 sc. of the round & Omegalul, it's not like CS it's full of close corners everywhere (were you have to go sometimes there, even against ecos) so CZ is OP in like 75% of all maps P.S.: i think the new addition of dust2 will see a new meta where teams will buy CZ a lot less, since it's the only map you could truly play "only long angles and keep long distances" + CZ wont be able to spray-headshot all the team in the rushes since now the rush's entries are very wide (not like in train upside popdog)
2018-04-24 07:21
#96
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Most stupid comment in this thread so far, congratulations! For your first point: I suggest you learn what spacing means. For your second point: You have utility for corners and hiding spots. It's very apparent that you have no clue about the game, at all.
2018-04-24 08:07
It's also apparent that all pro teams have no clue about the game, as well. You must be a CS genius.
2018-04-24 13:02
#142
NAF | 
Slovakia t4gg3d 
+1 he is pronax but better
2018-04-24 14:09
#145
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Every single point he made has been refuted by me. And yes, i have no doubt i am less biased than pros and yes, i know for sure that i have more knowledge about the game than people like you.
2018-04-24 14:20
why make it about me? I am merely just stating your greatness. this is about you being a tactical mastermind, you being smarter than all of the pro teams who don't know the basics of playing anti-eco rounds. because they are so easy to play. if you were on a pro team, your team would never lose any anti-eco rounds. can we expect to see cuzican on a pro team anytime soon?
2018-04-24 14:27
#168
 | 
Germany cuzican 
You have no arguments and have to rely on ad hominem attacks masked by sarcasm. On a site note: My team only loses 10 % of antiforce rounds because we play structured CS. Have a good day and educate yourself.
2018-04-24 14:47
If anti-eco's are so easy, why do pro teams keep losing them? Guess I have to paint it out for you, when you can't read between the lines. If you play against 500$ pistols, you should be able to play unstructured CS and still win 9/10 rounds, but you can't, that's why it's overpowered. The very fact that you have to play so methodical against them is a clue that it's overpowered. 1. Spacing. Doesn't work on most maps. Especially if you're T. And good wielders of the CZ have no problem killing people mid range, and high range kills happens more often than you think. 2. Utility. Sure, works for taking out CT's hiding. But most people don't hide with a CZ, they take the fight to them, try to catch them off guard. Sure, pro teams do stupid things sometimes against CZ's. But that doesn't mean the weapons isn't overpowered. You try to minimize the effect of the problem, and then argue that it isn't a problem at all. Non sense.
2018-04-24 15:07
#191
 | 
Germany cuzican 
I stated before that most of the rounds lost to CZs are down to a multitude of factors and one of them is that the meta of strategy has shifted to the puggy, more aggressive and less methodical style. On a high tier level of CS you can't win 9/10 rounds against pistols if you play unstructured and go CQC. It's not possible, even if the CZ wouldn't exist. And it is hardly methodical to for example on Inferno molly sandbags at banana, take banana control, set up for the execute with two people playing antiflash, molly first and second oranges, throw flashes into the site and ct and just overpowering the players on there. The second point you made is why i said multiple times already that quick executes work the best against CZs, because you want to give them as little time and space to set up in weird corners and for plays. I don't know why you say spacing isn't possible on certain maps, could be because we have other definitions for it, YOu need to elaborate and give examples for me to adress that point. I am not trying to minimize the effect of the problem you think exists, that is CZs being too overpowered, i am trying to give instructions and objective approaches to minimizing the problem of loosing to forcerounds. There is a difference. You are talking about the gun being overpowered, i am talking about necessary ways to counter the gun. It's the same as for any gun in the game. Do CT's have an AWP? Do they have an Autosniper? Do they play with shotguns? Every single gun choice of the opposing team alters the way you play a round and which utility and so on you need.
2018-04-24 15:16
#98
 | 
Turkey Styyx 
Before 5-7/Tec9 nerf: CZ shit gun hahahahah After 5-7/Tec9 nerf: CZ TOO OP VALVE PLS NERF Cry me a river kids
2018-04-24 08:13
#99
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Summed up accurately
2018-04-24 10:14
#100
 | 
Ukraine ksay 
8 bullets clip and it would be fine the only op thing about it is that it can kill multiple targets at once
2018-04-24 10:20
#104
 | 
Germany cuzican 
It is perfect as it is. You can kill multiple targets with every gun.
2018-04-24 10:49
#105
 | 
Ukraine ksay 
it should be harder i mean it's easy as fuck spraying multiple targets u can kill whole team with one clip of p250 but its almost never happens. i don't mind cz killing in a close range and it's damage but it should be only one "easy" kill and then picking enemies gun as intended it should be about positioning not outaiming
2018-04-24 10:57
#158
 | 
Germany cuzican 
If a team gets sprayed down by a CZ, it's their own fault and they likely played the round terribly. If you read what i wrote before in this topic, you would know that i already named spacing as one of the main factors for losing antiforce rounds. If you get sprayed down by a CZ, then your spacing was terrible. That'S factual.
2018-04-24 14:37
#167
 | 
Ukraine ksay 
are u even reading? M U L T I P L E T A R G E T S yes spacing, positioning it's all good but sometimes u can't even trade a guy in front of u because cz can kill both with 12 bullets and movement accuracy it has advantage in this sort of situation over famas/smgs i personally love cz and i use it since way before this whole OP bullshit but weapon clearly need to require more skill being able to shut down few guys in front of u just simply by pressing mouse1 and sitting in the corner is kinda meh. 8 bullets and u need to be more precise/change position to reload
2018-04-24 14:49
#171
 | 
Germany cuzican 
You obviously lack reading comprehension skills, because i specifically adressed multiple targets. If a player with a CZ kills more than 1 person with a spray then it's the fully bought teams fault because of bad spacing between individual players. Not sure why you are talking about corners when i said multiple times that corners get irrelevant as soon as your utility usage is decent. EDIT: "...u need to [...] change position to reload" THe cz already has a reload time of 2.7 seconds. How long should it be? 5? You have no clue what you are talking about and just offer broad arguments without actually engaging with the ones i made throughout this thread.
2018-04-24 14:50
#181
 | 
Ukraine ksay 
wtf even is this bs answer? u can basically tell this about any weapon in the game. the difference is cz costs 500$ u need at least 400$ on utility (which is molly +flashbangs/nades). smokes in some scenarios will make it only harder. that mean u will use probably smg and need someone backing u up with ak on a long distance if u lose 2nd round u have 0 after this. there are certain spots u can't premolly safely so much effort against 500$ weapon? nah u losing your mind
2018-04-24 14:59
#185
 | 
Germany cuzican 
So you think Antiforce rounds should be played with Mac10s and armor only? Okay got you. Think before you hop into a discussion with someone like me. The most important thing about CS is utility. If you don't use it, you lose the game. Simple as that. You have absolutely no arguments. Yes, if you lose the second round you will have shit money. That's why you buy utility to maximize the chance of winning the round. Fucking braindead
2018-04-24 15:01
#194
 | 
Ukraine ksay 
people rarely buying fully this is like gold nova mistake (which u are i guess) u need fucking economy especially as ct cs is not only about utility u can't molly everything on maps like train or overpass set executions not working properly against cz's cus they always right in your face. it's tough to trade against cz's (a lot tougher then against any other pistol) even if u have 5 mollys u still need to take position to execute them on site (overpass as example) are u actually that retarded? do u have any clue how maps work? using cz's lonely in a choke spots needs to be more punishing. that's it.
2018-04-24 15:20
#195
 | 
Ukraine ksay 
i mean it's all cool if u rush with a premates on a site with few nades but pro's actually doing info plays and they tagging with scouts and using they're own nades pull your head from your ass ffs
2018-04-24 15:28
#196
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Can you please start writing in proper form because it takes ages to read your incoherent wall of texts. I I will respond to you anyways. First of all, maybe people not buying fully is the reason for so many lost antiforce rounds? Try to get that into your brain. Second of all, as CTs the correct play against pistols is to play retakes. If you are playing in cobblestone drop against CZs you are asking for humiliation. Third of all, no, you cannot molly everything, but you don't need to. You can clear out the most important angles on every site with 3 molotovs. Combined with well timed and placed flashes it's an easy site take with maybe casualties of two players maximum. Fourth of all, yes set executes are what works best against CZ's if they happen quick. CZs obviously want to get into your face, that's why you give them no time to do that and constantly apply pressure or just instantly rush a site. Fifth of all, yes it is harder to trade against CZs, but not that much, because unlike most pistols its a one and done gun most of the times. I think i have a lot more knowledge about the game as you think, as i am able to elaborate on concepts in detail and give factual arguments and coherent ideas about the game, which you don't. Try to insult me as a Gold Nova all you want, i am very comfortable with my skill level and have nothing to prove to some random guy that has little to no understanding of advanced cs.
2018-04-24 15:29
#198
 | 
Ukraine ksay 
u can keep theorizing as long as u want but reality of competitive cs saying very opposite and u need to be very ignorant to not to see this playing against random guys on mm/faceit is very different then playing against proper team on a force buy they can rush/info play they can support cz's with nades/scouts as well they can even retake successfully with pistols because u are wasted your utility and time on execution wtf is this narrow thinking
2018-04-24 15:42
#203
 | 
Germany cuzican 
The reality of CS isn't what i am talking about. I am talking about the perfect approach, which obviously isn't reality. To counter your points: -> They can rush and make plays for info Yup, that's why you go for a quick execute. Rushes will get easily denied and info plays are a nonexistent variable. They can support CZs with nades and scouts: -> Thats why you go for a quick execute. They can retake successfully with pistols: -> This only happens if you already lost to many people during the execution, because it was a bad execution or because you played the afterplant badly. I am very sure i am not the narrow minded person, because i have an answer for every argument, which means i have thought about it before you even came up with it. My opinion is just the objectively right one and you still can't refute that. If i were at home i could provide lots and lots of examples for lost CZ rounds that support my opinion. Unlike you i analyse every T1 match that gets played. I literally watched every single demo from fnatic, Astralis, Navi and mouzsports at dreamhack, which i am sure you didn'T.
2018-04-24 15:47
#204
 | 
Ukraine ksay 
-> that's why you go for a quick execute that's why they can stuck 4 ppl on a site and keep another one for info play +u always can safe your cz's btw if your team like to do this and someone watched demos they would do this for sure -> info plays are a nonexistent variable this is simply not true 3/4 guys can simply stuck in site and the other 1/2 play info if they die = they save or play for exit frags -> This only happens if you already lost to many people during the execution not really. they still can tag u with scouts/deagles deny planting in a safe spot by using molly they can play around smokes and their gaps u may think about some stuff but all u are saying is no where close to reality
2018-04-24 15:55
#205
 | 
Germany cuzican 
-"> info plays are a nonexistent variable this is simply not true 3/4 guys can simply stuck in site and the other 1/2 play info if they die = they save or play for exit frags" Just proves that you don't even understand what i am writing. It's really mentally draining arguing with someone like you. Atleast put some effort into your responses, holy shit.
2018-04-24 15:56
#206
 | 
Ukraine ksay 
ok if u rush then its less but on inferno for example one guy can see if anyone on mid/second mid in a few seconds and no one in their mind gonna rush b/ take banana blindly u gonna be fucked with your shitty slightly executed rushes very hard thats why teams seeking info about forced team and losing their players in process u stuck in your dream scenarious what a delusional kid
2018-04-24 16:03
#208
 | 
Germany cuzican 
The funny thing is that you call me Gold Nova, but think about a B rush on Inferno when i say quick execute on a site. Take some time and breathe man, you are getting your knickers twisted over this discussion. Constant insults because you didn't have one valid argument yet. You even prove my point with your statement "thats why teams seeking info about forced team and losing their players in process". Defaults are the worst thing against a force buys. But i guess you are the most knowledgable person on this forum. Do you mind sharing your Faceit or ESEA account? Preferably the one of your team`?
2018-04-24 16:05
#210
 | 
Ukraine ksay 
>Defaults are the worst thing against a force buys not if u are working in pairs >B rush on Inferno stop acting like a kid. i said it in a context of info plays. read pls u are risking a lot with your fast executes on a decent level. i can see a lot of ways how it would go wrong but such knowledgable person as u somehow not. goldfish tactics. cs is about risks. there is no perfect one way to play the round from start to finish. situations constantly change and u need to act upon them. chill
2018-04-24 16:16
#211
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Yes, working in pairs obviously makes it better. /s You are constantly contradicting yourself. You are saying that CZs can easily spray down multiple people and can get set up with flashes et cetera, yet you want to have the team be scattered across the map to be even more vulnerable against such plays. Great idea. Then you say fast executes risk a lot, but two paragraphs later you say CS is about risks. Holy shit man, START THINKING BEFORE YOU TYPE. And still, would you be able to send me a link of your team?
2018-04-24 16:18
#213
 | 
Ukraine ksay 
>yet you want to have the team be scattered across the map to be even more vulnerable against such plays. because u want to fast execute sites and they can be stucked/have their own molly/smoke and pro's watching each others demos so it is very possibly can go wrong. as i said there is no perfect play. both tactics can go wrong. >Then you say fast executes risk a lot, but two paragraphs later you say CS is about risks. so where is contradicting? i'm not saying fast ex is completely wrong. im saying that acting like u and saying that there is a perfect play against cz force is wrong. that's what im saying holy shit what an ego
2018-04-24 17:00
Make it 4/4 with 300bpm
2018-04-24 12:05
#101
 | 
Denmark vladr1 
CZ is only op if you can aim.
2018-04-24 10:22
600-700$ old reload
2018-04-24 12:03
My dream
2018-04-24 13:03
Give it an actual spray pattern and maybe raise the price to 600-700
2018-04-24 12:07
#117
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Nobody will use it anymore then.
2018-04-24 12:42
Pro's can surely make the effort and learn a spray pattern for 12 bullets, maybe make it cost 600 so you cant force it with helmet after losing pistol and it would be good imo
2018-04-24 12:53
#127
 | 
Germany cuzican 
600$ makes it obsolete, that’s what i am saying. Especially on T side
2018-04-24 13:04
Maybe raise the kill reward up to $300 again?
2018-04-24 13:08
#134
 | 
Germany cuzican 
It still wouldn’t be bought because of the lack of headarmor. The CZ is bought when: a) You lost the pistol round and as a terrorist didn’t manage to plant the bomb. b) When your economy got reset c) When your opponent is close to a reset In all of those cases you want to have head armor if you’re a T. You’re either going against SMGs or rifles and you want to negate the risk of getting one shotted. On CT it’s not that drastic as Terrorusts have aks antways, but still. Raising the cost of the CZ would mean full ecos for Ts in most cases after loosing the pistol.
2018-04-24 13:19
Agreed. Weapons in CS are very balanced, people just don’t understand it.
2018-04-24 12:36
#118
 | 
Kazakhstan RiNat1337 
I hate and not use CZ because he have not bullets! 12/12 are you serious?
2018-04-24 12:46
you have to master the 2 taps, and it's a very efficient weapon It's made for close contact, a few shots then get the opponent weapon
2018-04-24 13:01
#121
 | 
Switzerland VerySwissGuy 
I completely agree with you :)
2018-04-24 13:01
CZ are fine, people just don't get they have to refrag and don't split vs forcebuys Like going apps on inferno on a forcebuy
2018-04-24 13:02
#128
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Yes exactly that.
2018-04-24 13:04
rofl i just figured you talked about the inferno apps too You probably meet the same dumb mates on faceit
2018-04-24 13:05
maybe they can decrease the accuracy on long distance like ump, the only nerf that could be good
2018-04-24 13:06
#157
 | 
Germany cuzican 
The CZ already is the most inaccurate pistol at long distances besides the P250.
2018-04-24 14:36
not accuracy actually I made a mistake, I was thinking about bullet penetration like the ump update
2018-04-24 14:37
#163
 | 
Germany cuzican 
The damage drop off is among the highest aswell.
2018-04-24 14:41
you may be right, but idk to me it's easier to get a headshot on long distance compared to the deagle which is powerful, but is way more demanding regarding skill
2018-04-24 14:43
#166
 | 
Germany cuzican 
In all honesty i think it's easier to master the deagle than the CZ. It's probably easier to get to a decent and consistent level with the CZ, but to make it versatile in every situation you have to be a god, unlike with the deagle. Might just be me though.
2018-04-24 14:45
#131
 | 
Malaysia byaIi 
CZ on t side pistol round is hard if u have kelvar
2018-04-24 13:07
Its pretty broken man, like i have before many times, been on a force. run and just sprayed two people double dink them and i dont think that is what a balanced gun should be like
2018-04-24 13:09
#135
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Can happen with any gun.
2018-04-24 13:20
Does it
2018-04-25 14:42
its broken as fuck, the amount of cz round wins even in pro tournaments is just bullshit, you cant call pro players bad or nobrained everytime they lose to cz's, because its simply broken.
2018-04-24 13:22
#147
 | 
Germany cuzican 
I am not calling pro players bad or nobrained, i say that most rounds that have been lost to CZs can be attributed to one of the variables i talked about the thread. Next time, before you engage in a thread like this, make an effort to atleast read and comprehend the points that are being made. Your opinion is worth nothing because it's not based on any arguments and just emotional reaction.
2018-04-24 14:22
#140
 | 
Norway BBonden 
I'm a fan of the CZ, and used it before the 5-7/tec-9 nerf but I don't see a reason to have it. It's not op but is pretty strong against full armor. I'd be happy just to delete it from the game.
2018-04-24 14:08
+1 Its called meta
2018-04-24 14:09
The CZ only looks “op” when noobs who can’t use it see pros use it. When pros use the gun, they are mostly very good with it. The noobs see that the CZ, a pistol actually does something, and assume it is op.
2018-04-24 14:11
If cheap automatic pistol isn't OP for You then You don't know sh!t about CS. They should make it cost 1000$ and move it into SMG's or delete this weapon
2018-04-24 14:29
#156
 | 
Germany cuzican 
What's your argument here? There is none. Downright the second most stupid comment in this thread so far, congratulations!
2018-04-24 14:35
Its a fvckin automatic pistol with almost no recoil at close battles, easy to tap, really high damage (101 to the head?) and it cost 500 bucks. How the hell that isn't OP for You? Deagle for example - You actually need skill to kill people with it. CZ You need 500 bucks and some brain, You can be DMG and kill 3 people every round.
2018-04-24 14:41
#165
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Deagle is a lot easier than CZ to master. You can kill enemies at close distance with 2 shots or one shot them at any range. If they are within the range where a cz would be viable to spray, you can kill an enemy in the same time with the deagle aswell. THe only reason the deagle isn't played that often in force rounds is the price. It's miles ahead of the CZ though and i always would pick a deagle over a CZ. Besides that, the CZ is not the only pistol that can one shot an armored enemy at close range.
2018-04-24 14:44
Its pointless to talk with You about it. You clearly never played with high skilled players. I'm not talking about global elite sh!t. I'm talking about high skilled players or people who actually understand the game and simple strats. You can win rounds with CZ with simple strats if You have people who understand how to play rounds like this. Just keep playin ur GE rank and make dumb thread at HLTV. GL buddy
2018-04-24 15:37
#200
 | 
Germany cuzican 
So you have no arguments left and have to rely on ad hominem attacks. I guess you got beaten in the discussion by landmark, which was expected. But one last question: As you say that i never played with high skilled players and therefore have no right to talk, i am wondering with which high skilled players you play(ed)? If you send me your level 10 FaceIt account i am going to burst out laughing.
2018-04-24 15:41
I play mostly with my IRL/online friends from Polish scene. Lets say, all top 5 teams from Poland and some tier2 swedish teams. Not sure if thats high enough for You. Its not about not having arguments. You think that CZ is completly "OK" so I don't even see the point to talk about it cuz You wont understand. Its like talking with LEM/Global player who play CS since 2016. I shouldn't even bump this thread. My bad
2018-04-25 00:28
#221
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Sounds like a regular player to me, nothing too impressive. The CZ is perfectly fine. Bring coherent arguments to the discussion and stop making up things like you are playing with the top5 of the polish scene or some tier 2 swedish teams, LMAO. NiP is Tier2 and you are saying you play with people like that, hilarious. Link me your esea and faceit account, you should be in fpl or rank s, right?:)
2018-04-25 11:02
"NIP is tier2" we're done here.
2018-04-25 14:07
#225
 | 
Germany cuzican 
What tier are they? You are claiming things which you can’t backup. Your insecurity is showing.
2018-04-25 14:52
#154
 | 
Germany cuzican 
To give a short summary of the two different perspectives and the arguments that have been given so far. Arguments for the CZ being too op: - Pros loose rounds to it - The CZ can kill a fully geared player ( A 500$ gun shouldn't be able to do that ) Arguments for the CZ not being OP at all: - The CZ only got into focus after the 5-7 and Tec9 got nerfed, even though it has been like this for a long time - Rounds that were lost to the CZ can be attribituted to a multitude of variables, such as bad utility usage, bad spacing, going into CQC and no trade fragging - The CZ has a very long reload - The CZ is useless at range - The CZ is one of the most inaccurate guns in the game - The CZ has a RNG based spray pattern Seems like people have no real argument for the CZ being too op, especially not one person can refute the argument that most rounds that were lost to a CZ buy were lost because of the named variables above. So for noone could negate anything i and other people with the same opinion said, whereas it is very easy to refute the arguments of the opposition "A 500$ pistol shouldn't be able to kill a fully geared player" -> The implication of this argument would be that there only should be rifles available, as it is very possible to kill a fully geared player even with a USP that comes at no cost. "Even pros lose to CZ buys" -> Yes they do, but it's because the strategical meta of teams shifted to a more puggy style which consists of aggressive individual plays. Instead of relying on well thought out strats, teams have been stagnant and rely on raw skill and aim the most. The best example for this is a team like Faze. Teams with a more structured approach like Astralis for example loose less rounds to CZs, furthermore proving the point that it's down to the way antiforce rounds are approached.
2018-04-24 14:34
#170
COCAINE | 
Austria jj666 
noobs spray and pray with cz and get away with it on close range
2018-04-24 14:48
it doesn't make sense that a weapon with a very high fire rate also has high damage it's like a mini machine gun
2018-04-24 14:51
#175
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Which is perfectly fine as it can be easily countered by utility.
2018-04-24 14:52
your buy is better vs CZ but it's worse vs deagle because long range advantage so i don't agree with you
2018-04-24 15:00
#188
 | 
Germany cuzican 
If you actually read what i wrote to some guy before, i said that the most viable and perfect way to play against force buys consisting of pistols and armor is to do fast executes on the big bombsites of each map, with the main priority being molotovs and flashbangs, smokes can actually be skipped in a lot of scenarios as they give opportunity for pistols and create more angles to watch. Take for instance Mirage. Our team almost always does a very fast a execute with atleast 3 mac10s and 1 or 2 rifles. The first guys just get flashed out of a ramp and molly under balc + jungle and clear the site, taking positions close CT and connector. The rifles stay behind and flash over a and smoke stairs and CT. We never lose antiforce buys like this, hasn't happened more than once in 20 matches. It works because the other team doesn't have time to set themselves up, like the CZs going close to ramp and playing weird corners, and the deagles get smoked/mollied of.
2018-04-24 15:07
alright that's fine i prefer weapon balance in that five-seven/tec9/cz are all equally viable
2018-04-24 15:15
#192
 | 
Germany cuzican 
In all honesty i think they 5-7 still is very viable, it's just that the Tec9 got nerfed into oblivion lol. But in my opinion there'S not much of a difference between the 5-7 and the CZ, with the difference that the CZ obviously is automatic. But then again the 5-7 is more viable at long ranges, but pistols have their pros and cons, whereas the tec9 is completely useless.
2018-04-24 15:19
+1. Not OP and doesnt need a nerf, but you can't deny the fact that it is strong as fuck on close range
2018-04-24 14:54
too op
2018-04-24 15:00
best balance for cz is to delet it from game completely, 2013 csgo was the best
2018-04-24 15:01
#199
 | 
Netherlands davin 
2014 best
2018-04-24 15:43
AINT NO GRAVE
2018-04-24 15:02
#212
 | 
Sweden Bangs 
CZ was only op when it was first released, far from op now
2018-04-24 16:20
#226
 | 
Germany cuzican 
Yup
2018-05-25 11:00
What are you expecting? That you get a double round after you're team won a round and the enemys economy dropped under 4k per player? This is ridiculous
2018-04-24 16:32
I agree CZ is nice .. CZ main for a few years now
2018-04-24 16:35
#218
shox | 
Russia Shurnd 
do u know the meaning of the word "loose"?
2018-04-24 16:36
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