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hltv org is biased
United States h2ger 
Astralis were not in Top5. Fnatic won 2 events and placed 3-4rd in Dreamhack Astralis wins won event and is top1? Right, it´s danish org.
2018-04-24 12:45
#1
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Other Iockerboy 
+1
2018-04-24 12:46
fnatic won 1 tier 2 event and one tier9000 event
2018-04-24 12:47
#4
United States h2ger 
so did Astralis? They won 1 tier event.
2018-04-24 12:48
so did mouz? they won 2 events and are 5th right now. Still accurate though
2018-04-24 12:48
#6
United States h2ger 
So you think Astralis being top1 is fair? How would you justify that? I mean what is your thought process.
2018-04-24 12:49
#7
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Denmark MeToxi 
i think it have something to do with how dominating they were during those events
2018-04-24 12:51
So the rational here is if some unknown team comes to the scene, owns everyone´s ass is top5?
2018-04-24 12:52
#17
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Denmark myasmus 
No, because Astralis are not unknown. They've been on the rise since they signed magisk. Top 8 at Starladder, top 4 at Katowice and top 1 at dreamhack.
2018-04-24 12:55
#19
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Denmark MeToxi 
Well, if they win an event with the entire top 10 in it, then maybe they deserve some points. It all depends on how many points they had before, how many points those teams they beat have, and how many of those teams there is in the event. I think. If they only have 0 points and starts recking all top 10 teams then they'll probably get those 350 points that astralis got aswell. But that wouldn't send them to top 5
2018-04-24 12:56
Let me put it this way: If some other team outside of top5 would have won the event the same way Astralis did, i don´t think they would be ranked as top1. That is my claim.
2018-04-24 12:57
#41
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Denmark MeToxi 
Fnatic got 270 points for winning IEM Katowice. 8 teams in top 10 and lost 3 out of 13 maps. They didn't win their maps convincingly. Mouz got 299 points for winning Starseries. 8 teams in top 10 and lost 8 out of 22 maps. They didn't win their maps convincingly. There were some maps that they won convincingly, but far from all. Astralis got 349 points for winning DHMM. 10 teams in top 10 and lost 1 out of 10 maps. They won all of their maps convincingly or really covincingly and the one they lost, they only barely lost. You see the difference? The difference is approximately the same as the point difference, if you ask me. Don't think about the ranking itself, think about the difference in points earned by winning big event.
2018-04-24 13:13
I really really hope that the score of the games has no influence at all on the ranking point! Doesn’t matter if you win all games 2-1 (16-14, 0-16, 16-14) or if you win all games 2-0 (16-0, 16-0). It’s the wins and who was beaten that should matter, only!
2018-04-24 13:37
#76
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Denmark MeToxi 
I have not idea if it matters, i just wanted to mention it. But the difference in top10 teams should matter, and i think it does. Maybe they have a base on events so 10 top 10 teams is 350 points and then it goes down by 25-75 points depending on where the top 10 team not attending is. We can only speculate but this is roughly my suggestion for how its working. I could ofc be completely wrong.
2018-04-24 14:00
What is my thought process? Dude, they rekt everyone including fnatic. Not just in Marseille, but also online. Or wait, you forgot online matches also count right? Ya know, those online matches were fnatic sucked ass in?
2018-04-24 12:51
Don´t make me hold a position i don´t hold. I am not saying mousesports after winning 2 events should be top 5. I am interested in why Astralis is top1.
2018-04-24 12:51
Can you read? curious
2018-04-24 12:53
#13
2018-04-24 12:53
What matters is how good they play. Funny enough that's how ranking systems work. If fnatic gets a tournament win by just barely beating online soldiers in the finals in a tournament in which no relevant teams played, they ofcourse are gonna get less points. Marseille was a T1 tournament where everyone was supposed to play at their peak. If Astralis wins the tournament by beating FaZe, fnatic and Na'Vi (all top 5 teams by far) 2-0 then they deserve #1 spot 100% If you can't see that then please end this discussion
2018-04-24 12:58
There was a event called - IEM KATOWICE 2018 => hltv.org/events/3309/iem-katowice-2018
2018-04-24 12:59
Beating heroic, g2, liquid and choke clan clap clap clap
2018-04-24 13:01
And in the same event, what happened to Astralis?
2018-04-24 13:01
wait, when was katowice? and when was marseille? these ranking are accurate and ->recent <- /closed
2018-04-24 13:02
Yes, let´s close the thread when you can´t defend your position.
2018-04-24 13:03
No, you're just not vulnerable to common sense. Not gonna discuss anything with someone who is probably communicating while laying in a coma
2018-04-24 13:03
No, you are the one who is misreading the situation. The Ranking system here in hltv has always been a summary of atleast past 6 months of performance. Now, out of the blue Astralis is not even in TOP5 they win 1 event and they are top1.
2018-04-24 13:04
#42
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Denmark MeToxi 
With severe decay, month to month. IEM Katowice already lost half of its relevance.
2018-04-24 13:15
By the same logic fnatic should have been ranked top1 after IEM Katowice, but they were not.
2018-04-24 13:23
#57
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Denmark MeToxi 
Why? What did they do in like the 3 months up to katowice? Win WESG? Tier 2 event by hltv definition. EDIT: They were all the way down at like 300 points before IEM.
2018-04-24 13:26
One event before Katowice, fnatic participated @ hltv.org/events/3313/ecs-season-4-finals where Astralis also lost in the semi-finals. In conclusion: Astralis last lan event prior to Dreamhack they finished 3rd. Fnatic last event prior to Katowice they also finished 3rd yet they were ranked 3rd even after winning (WESG, which i agree is tier2). It seems biased to me.
2018-04-24 13:28
#75
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Denmark MeToxi 
astralis got like 70 points for a 3-4th and fnatic got like 60 points for 3-4th. The point difference gotta have something to do with point decay. Overall astralis had more points to begin with.
2018-04-24 13:56
#49
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Denmark MeToxi 
He's defending his position, you just decline all the points he's making because they don't align with your opinion.
2018-04-24 13:19
#46
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Denmark MeToxi 
They lost to FaZe 2-0 in semi's. Top 4
2018-04-24 13:18
Yes, the very same event where fnatic won over FaZe.
2018-04-24 13:47
#78
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Denmark MeToxi 
Yes, the very first event that astralis played with magisk, the very same event where fnatic never played astralis.
2018-04-24 14:06
Still they lost to a team that fnatic beat. I´m not disputing any facts. Astralis completely owned every opponent. Still doesn´t make sense to me why would they be ranked top1 after one event.
2018-04-24 14:13
Not to take anything away from astralis, but they beat FaZe with Xizt. There is a case to be made about that aswell.
2018-04-24 14:15
#91
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Denmark MeToxi 
True, but thats something faze has to survive with. It wouldnt make sense if their ranking didnt move at all for 6 months because they played without olof
2018-04-24 14:19
Ok, let´s just agree to disagree. I think this conversation has run its course.
2018-04-24 14:21
#98
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Denmark MeToxi 
I just wanna make sure that we understand it the same way: You think that even if FaZe gets last place every single event for the next 6 months or however long they'll play without olof they should still be nr. 1 with 980 points?
2018-04-24 14:47
You couldn´t be more wrong, i don´t underestand why they are Top 5 now.
2018-04-24 14:48
#102
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Denmark MeToxi 
Ok, that's just how i roughly understood it. Then the thing we disagree on is whether Astralis should be nr. 1, right? Because your argument is that Astralis lost to a team that Fnatic won over. Then i could argue that Astralis won over Fnatic that won over FaZe that won over Astralis 2 months ago. And that they did it more convincingly than when they lost. And if this doesn't change your mind, then yeah, lets agree to disagree. It doesn't really matter anyways. EDIT: typos
2018-04-24 14:54
Basicly yes, what i pointed out at #61: "One event before Katowice, fnatic participated @ hltv.org/events/3313/ecs-season-4-finals where Astralis also lost in the semi-finals. In conclusion: Astralis last lan event prior to Dreamhack they finished 3rd. Fnatic last event prior to Katowice they also finished 3rd yet they were ranked 3rd even after winning (WESG, which i agree is tier2)." It just seems to be that fnatic deserved to be top1 after Katowice, but they were not. That is what we ultimately disagree about.
2018-04-24 14:56
#114
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Denmark MeToxi 
I think that it's because the ranking is point-based in 3 categories. I don't know the details but one of the differentiating factors gotta be where astralis' points were based compared to fnatic's. Maybe all of fnatic's points were located in form and lan whereas astralis had their points mostly in achievements? Maybe astralis had more points than fnatic in late 2017 and kept it that way mostly throughout late 2017 and early 2018 since astralis also had a 3-4th finish at ECS? It would require extensive research on the ranking all the way back to PGL Kraków Major for us to truly understand how the ranking has worked since then and i don't think that any of us would like to spend time on that. But basically i think it goes all the way back to Golden an Lekro joining the team, and the lowpoint of fnatic with this core. Not their big lowpoint but rather when lekro and golden joined and they were 15# on ranking This is all just hypothetical with no facts supporting any of this. EDIT: Splitting up the text a bit
2018-04-24 15:07
Thanks, that makes a lot more sense. Although i thought Lekr0 has been part of fnatic quite a while now? I could be mistaken, i did not follow CS in 2017.
2018-04-24 15:08
#117
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Denmark MeToxi 
He was part of fnatic when the old, old lineup split up in godsent and fnatic but were left out when fnatic rejoined as the new old fnatic. Then he joined again to stay in august 2017 along with golden.
2018-04-24 15:10
#43
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Denmark MeToxi 
Only 8 out of 10 top 10 teams.
2018-04-24 13:16
Theres a event I made up its called "SHUT THE FUCK UP"
2018-04-24 13:21
In otherwords if you are Astralis and beat everyone you get to be top1, if you are fnatic and beat everyone you don´t get to be top1.
2018-04-24 13:00
#25 'everyone'
2018-04-24 13:01
The same choke clan who pwned astralis 2-0?
2018-04-24 13:10
#9
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Portugal rafaelpaisgk1 
Because they destroyed all the teams they had to destroy. Included Faze and Fnatic
2018-04-24 12:51
Okey, so what matters is how you beat your opponents? Not the actual torunament wins?
2018-04-24 12:53
#20
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Portugal rafaelpaisgk1 
At the moment, Astralis is Top 1 and they showed us on Lan that they are deserved Top 1. When Fnatic won IEM Katowice, they play really good but not that strong like Astralis. It's my opinion. But now the scene is so strong that the teams can beat each other easily
2018-04-24 12:57
#16
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Denmark RandomDane 
I don't think there is a top 1 team, and there hasn't been in long time. a lot of teams can beat each other.
2018-04-24 12:54
#69
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Sweden Bangs 
>katowice >tier 2 pick 1
2018-04-24 13:38
#15
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Finland kimi__ 
asstralis 🤮
2018-04-24 12:54
mouz 5th is baffling
2018-04-24 12:55
Honestly this is weird af, sure I think Astralis are number 1 right now because they were so dominant, but no way they should be the number 1 in the rankings considering Faze were in number 1 for so long and C9 in the top 5.
2018-04-24 13:02
#51
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Denmark MeToxi 
Mouz got 299 points for winning an event with less top 10 teams and lost 8 out of 22 maps, fnatic got 270 points for winning an event with less top 10 teams and lost 3 out of 13 maps, astralis got 349 points for winning an event with all top 10 teams and lost 1 out of 10 maps, winning all the maps convincingly and losing the only map 16 - 14.
2018-04-24 13:22
Mouz also won the V4 event and Fnatic won WESG, both got top 8 in major as well while Astralis crashed out in groups. I just don't think it's very fair to give them the number 1 ranking even though I do believe they're top 1.
2018-04-24 13:25
#62
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Denmark MeToxi 
Just remember that neither V4 nor WESG is considered a "big event" on hltv. WESG had 3 teams in the top 10 and V4 had 2 teams in top 10. That really doesn't give much points. Regarding the major, astralis lost 60 points for that while fnatic gained around 10 points. I honestly though it would've a bigger impact, dont have any explanation for that.
2018-04-24 13:31
V4 had the number 1 ranked team tho, WESG had number 2. Funny tho because both V4 and WESG had more prizemoney than DH Masters.
2018-04-24 14:09
#88
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Denmark MeToxi 
But its not the prizepool that defines the importance
2018-04-24 14:18
theyre not xd
2018-04-24 13:05
İts not about the win a title I think They are looking so strong,have a great form and right now they can beat any team easily.That make them top 1 and its %100 true
2018-04-24 13:05
it doesnt matter if youre top5 or top20, if you win a tournament youre top1 nomatter what, hltv rankings are bullshit
2018-04-24 13:05
I would absolutely agree with you if they would use the same standard to other teams aswell.
2018-04-24 13:07
#52
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Denmark MeToxi 
#51
2018-04-24 13:23
theyre still not top1
2018-04-24 13:27
#63
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Denmark MeToxi 
You're delusional
2018-04-24 13:32
Not really
2018-04-24 13:37
All im saying is that you should not become top1 instantly after you won ONE tournament, thats bullshit.
2018-04-24 13:38
#77
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Denmark MeToxi 
They didn't only become top 1 because they won 1 event. They did because faze were dissapointing and the other teams above them were close to astralis, pointwise. There is a reason for why neither mouz nor fnatic became top1 after their runs, and that was because of the current state of all the other teams. The way your way would work is that the entire ranking would be based around one team instead of all the top 10, top 20 teams.
2018-04-24 14:04
They need to prove themselves more than just winning 1 event
2018-04-24 14:06
#81
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Denmark MeToxi 
They did prove themself though at IEM katowice. They proved themself at DHMM itself. I realize that you can go far in events without actually deserving a better ranking or proving themself but its the way that astralis did it that matters. Or so i think at least.
2018-04-24 14:08
If they can be consistent at tournaments and not just go out in groups at some of them then they could be top1 for sure
2018-04-24 14:09
#87
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Denmark MeToxi 
True. We'll see after sydney. I hope they'll show up again :P Dupreeh hinted at a much deeper stratbook than what they showed at DHMM but then again. They didn't need to use it that much. EDIT: typo
2018-04-24 14:18
#39
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Turkey b0wsette 
They have beaten current top teams to win a championship, unlike fnatic They were top5 btw
2018-04-24 13:11
#72
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Sweden Bangs 
Fnatic beat FaZe twice to win Katowice tho
2018-04-24 13:50
#73
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Denmark Twick9x 
+1 they won agianst faze 2-0 and faze were the best team in the rankings at that time, and they won over fnatic 2-0 and over navi 2-0.
2018-04-24 13:51
fnatic won against fnatic? wat
2018-04-24 14:08
#95
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Denmark Twick9x 
Can you read English. I wrote that ast won over fnatic
2018-04-24 14:44
i read wrong lol
2018-04-24 18:52
Its dumb that mouz is top5 only
2018-04-24 13:16
i agree that it should take more time to build up points to be number one, but astralis has been almost unbeaten in ECS.
2018-04-24 13:17
#55
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Denmark MeToxi 
They just kept their points stable at 630 or so during the latter part of 2017 and therefor could easily be in contention for nr. 1
2018-04-24 13:24
As long as these rankings arent sponsored by xtrfy it's all good
2018-04-24 13:19
#59
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Czech Republic Spiritak 
For me I just dont get the FaZe 3rd rank. They did not win anything nor went to finals in ages, yet somehow HLTV still places team top 1 - top 3.
2018-04-24 13:26
#70
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Denmark BATISTUTA9 
Guys guys.... its Tgwr1ls who is running this list, the god of stats. He knows what hes doing
2018-04-24 13:42
#74
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Macau Bent0 
ok i belive u dude <3 Tgwr1ls top 1 astralis top 1 too
2018-04-24 13:54
why give s1mple the mvp if gla1ve IGL?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?
2018-04-24 14:16
I would like to see Tgwr1ls thought proccess behind the latest rank update. I want to believe hltv.org is neutral, but there is a case to be made why fnatic wasn´t placed top1 after Katowice.
2018-04-24 14:19
#93
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Denmark BATISTUTA9 
We are very much neutral, that is extremely important for a company like hltv.org which relies on stats and journalism. We would never compromise the cornerstone of our entire existence, to favor any country, team or player. That is simply not and will never be an option. Ask yourself why HLTV never had a CS Team.. We don't want to be in a position where our users can speculate that we favor one over another.
2018-04-24 14:31
I understand your response comes from good faith but i honestly can not name any media organisation that owns a sports team.
2018-04-24 14:35
#96
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Denmark BATISTUTA9 
SKY ? We talked about having it years back... Even just a sponsorship, but it all came down to the same principle.. Because these organisations conclude the same as we do, that its hard to stay impartial if you actively engage in it.
2018-04-24 14:45
Ok, well i guess exception defines the rule. Anyways that is offtopic. I just don´t understand why fnatic was not ranked top1 after Katowice. Their last 2 months performance was same in terms of results.
2018-04-24 14:58
#97
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Luxembourg alex24 
but but... this looks so very subjective... hard to belive the danish owned company named hltv is not involved/owned/sponsored somehow by the same individuals who are involved in astralis
2018-04-24 14:46
#100
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Denmark BATISTUTA9 
Well you could research it pretty easily if you wanted... But i guess its easier just to spew conspiracies and nonsense.. All danish companies are required to publish their books incl the ownership structure. So you could go and look up hltv.org and RFRSH.
2018-04-24 14:50
#101
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Luxembourg alex24 
also even the prime minister of Denmark openly congratulated Astralis on TV :) so i`m just gonna let this go for now, waiting for Astralis to jump 4 ranking spots at the next event they win in 2019
2018-04-24 14:52
what? did he? are you for real?
2018-04-24 14:56
wtf, thats actually awesome to witness
2018-04-24 14:58
#112
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Slovakia TatKo 
lol thats kinda awesome actually
2018-04-24 15:01
#106
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Denmark BATISTUTA9 
Phew, glad you did! We were getting close to a full on exposure there with the Prime Minister involved. The circle of evil is complete.
2018-04-24 14:57
#108
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Luxembourg alex24 
:DD top1 reply P.S. i also stopped because i thought i stumbled upon some large scaled conspiracy involving oculte forces :)))
2018-04-24 14:58
#89
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Brazil PhoKiLL 
Why don't they provide the Formula for calculating the HLTV Ranking? Even the FIFA World Ranking (Soccer) has the Formula available to everyone. I understand when they don't provide to us the CSGO Patent Ranking Formula to prevent abuse and fraud. But for the HLTV ranking I see no reason for this lack of transparency. I'm not against Astralis being the TOP 1 now, since it's a fact that all the other teams are far below their performaces, especially those who have recently changed their lineup like SK, C9, FaZe... But this score of points when compared to other major championships is very strange.
2018-04-24 14:19
#105
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United Kingdom Jonty04l32 
I'm sick of seeing threads that slander HLTV.Org just because they disagree with HLTV. The rankings are unbiased, non-Danish authorised and 100% fair. Thread reported... I respect your opinion, but don't spread it as fact just because you haven't the slightest understanding of the HLTV rankings. Have a good day.
2018-04-24 14:56
+1
2018-04-24 14:59
why report the thread, is he not allowed to express his opinion now or what? reported your comment for falsely reporting this thread and misuse of the report tool.
2018-04-24 15:02
#115
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United Kingdom Jonty04l32 
Yes he is allowed to address his opinion, however he is doing so in the wrong fashion. He is being unnecessarily objective and accusing HLTV.Org of malicious activity, rather than subjectively providing a viable argument. BATISTUTA9 even commented himself to explain how the Danish has nothing to with the ranking whatsoever. This being the fifth thread to exist complaining about that which they do not understand. You can report my comment all you like, you are entitled to do within your own personal reasons. Alike mine for reporting yet another thread objectively slandering HLTV for idiosyncratic arbitrariness. Have a good day.
2018-04-24 15:06
yea you can have all the reasons you want but you're still misusing the report tool
2018-04-24 15:40
#121
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United Kingdom Jonty04l32 
Maybe according to your opinion, but the same can be said of you. It is respected regardless. Have a good day, friend.
2018-04-24 15:43
if you want a serious answer, take a look here: plot.ly/~reidan/117.embed i've turned the hltv rankings into a graphic. if you zoom in on 2018 you can see why astralis is no.1 now and why fnatic wasn't. at the time fnatic won kato, faze still had way more points than they have now. that's why you can see the big gap between them, sk and c9, and the rest just before starseries. over the last 8 weeks faze has constantly lost points (a lot on apr2 because rosterchange), as you can see by all other teams going up during that time. it's due to the hltv rankings being CURVED in each category, which means: if the 1st place gains points, all other teams get pushed down; if the 1st place loses points, all other teams go up. another thing: if you win a tournament that gives you 500 points (uncurved) but the 1st place has 1500 points (uncurved) that won't get you anywhere near the 1st place, but if the first place only has 700 points (uncurved), those same 500 points will get you ahead immediately. so: when the field is close together, wins mean more.
2018-04-24 15:27
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