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Major finals
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United States GameZesus_Christ 
Why are they still a Bo3? Almost very big event is using Bo5 finals now why is the Major not following this trend? (unpopular opinion; Bo5 semis and Bo7 finals for Majors would make it really interesting) /discuss
2018-10-11 00:22
because bo5 is much for device.
2018-10-11 00:23
or everyone is too scared that GODOCEAN and subtLe will win because they have a 24 map pool
2018-10-11 00:24
#27
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Germany zeolikk 
OCEAN MAN
2018-10-11 01:10
#42
yes | 
Germany MoreOnTop 
TAKE ME BY THE HAND
2018-10-12 00:56
#47
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Germany zeolikk 
TAKE ME TO THE LAND
2018-10-12 01:39
+1
2018-10-12 00:46
#3
rain | 
Slovakia Fragolaaa 
Like who would watch bo7 final?
2018-10-11 00:25
I say that because it shows that you can play all maps but i probably wouldn't watch the enitre thing i.e NaVi vs Astralis on Nuke where it would just be a squash i wouldn't bother
2018-10-11 00:34
#29
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Germany VeryFlaMezGuy 
lets say you have the major final of navi vs mouz ... navi would get rekt on cache while mouz would get rekt on overpass ... so the standard ban of each team would be a stomp and prepare cache for 2 tourneys where it isnt even safe you reach the final isnt really worth it for navi in this example either is overpass for mouz
2018-10-11 01:16
#38
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Brazil W0NDERCHiLD 
+1 lol 7+ straight hours of cs
2018-10-12 00:40
fucking awesome
2018-10-12 00:47
#4
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Croatia mds818 
teams get tired a lot of times its just one team getting rekt people wouldn't watch bo7 for sure you would see a lot of mistakes etc
2018-10-11 00:25
I say Bo7 finals because it shows you can play the entire map pool. I doubt it'd go to all 7 maps no matter what. I still want Bo5 finals regardless because it's like watching a standard event with Bo3s
2018-10-11 00:35
#15
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Croatia mds818 
it wont show anything, 2 maybe 3 maps will be played properly and the rest of the match goes with random rush b because they're tired both teams certainly wont know maps people wont watch one match for 9-10 hours etc
2018-10-11 00:41
it'd be more the first 4 or 5 since most teams are trying to win is as fast as possible and realistically it would probably be like a 4-2 for most Majors. the final 2 - 3 maps would be more to show endurance. Bo5s are the better system for sure and I never said Bo7s were the better way I just thought it would be an interesting concept
2018-10-11 00:43
#19
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Croatia mds818 
aite let me change the question a little bit have you ever played ON LAN 2xbo3 in one day or 5+ matches in one day? and once again ON LAN?
2018-10-11 00:47
You realize this is all hypothetical and you keep focusing on the fact that I think Bo7's would be an interesting concept but ignoring that i still say Bo5 is the better system and should be played. Not once did I say "I rather have a Bo7" I just say it'd be an interesting concept to flirt with and see if there is any way to input that system in
2018-10-11 00:49
#21
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Croatia mds818 
I do understand that but we already had some bo5s and in 9/10 matches you either have 16 0 or 17 19 with 12 3 11 4 13 2 halfs, you don't have a close match where you have 8 7 half or something... and even if it is hypthetical you need to think about it how would it work in practice, and I can tell you that it wouldn't work(bo7 most certainly not, bo5 is not worth the semi finals and bo5 grand final is pretty much the same as the bo3 grand final)
2018-10-11 00:51
you seemed to be focusing on the completely wrong part of what I was saying with the Bo7 system which is why I pointed it out. Bo5's make sense with majority of big LAN events utilizing them and while most Bo5's are a 3-0 or 3-1 it still makes much more sense than using a Bo3 finals. It makes it so it seems like events like IEM Sydney which utilized this would be more important to win as you would have to put more work in to win. A good concept would be the NaVi v Astralis final from the previous Major. NaVi was completely thrashed but if they had a Bo5 there is a chance they win a map and that the veto would end up being changed a bit and could've had a completely different outcome. Of course this is all entirely a hypothetical thing and realistically it probably would've been Astralis winning regardless but with the Bo5 system it lends itself to being a lot more unpredictable as teams with perma ban maps (i.e 2016 Astralis with Cobble or VP with Cache) having to adapt more. side note: these are how forums should be, constructive debates
2018-10-11 00:58
#31
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Croatia mds818 
vp didn't ban cache really(they started once dust was removed) it wouldn't be any different in navi scenario, they got completly rekt through the two maps and the third map would end up being same, and with the lack of confidence(since they're already 2 0 down) it would be even worse hltv.org/matches/2322426/faze-vs-astrali.. iem sydney... you had 3 close maps but still 3 0, somewhat one sided but lets say it can pass so you get +1 here but on the other hand here hltv.org/matches/2301187/luminosity-vs-f.. it's exactly what I'm talking about, one team destroying other( all 3 maps ended with the 12 3 half time... that's one sided and most certainly not interesting) and there were plenty of more one sided matches hltv.org/matches/2316478/sk-vs-virtuspro.. good bo5 hltv.org/matches/2302460/tempo-storm-vs-.. terrible bo5 5 maps, 3 one sided af 1 somewhat aite and 1 one sided af hltv.org/matches/2315348/virtuspro-vs-sp.. again terrible bo5(3 one sided maps, at first map ss had 13 5 lead or smth=
2018-10-11 14:57
Great evidence with your argument. Not many people can provide evidence that actually helps their side of a debate. while yes Bo5's can flop there's still always the unknown factor. Bo5's are fairly 50/50 on how they play out and with the potential of 5 maps it gives a lot of room for highlights hltv.org/matches/2324406/natus-vincere-v.. NaVi vs BiG should've been a steamroll for NaVi even with the way BiG was playing (scorelines it was but sometimes the scoreline doesn't show how close a game was) and if you loo kat the amount of highlights it shows that even if the teams are playing fairly sloppy (NaVi on D2) it can still create a lot of highlights like the ace nex had which imo was one of the best there's been in awhile and could slot its way into the top 10 maybe even top 5 for best of all time (depending on how it's viewed). Not every map or even series is gonna be amazing. The best match from the Major was the Bo1 between Liquid and Astralis which was the group stage, not even a map in the playoffs and the playoffs themselves were really lackluster. The Bo5 system creates that unpredictable level as in a standard situation its the best 5 maps between both teams as both would normally ban their weakest and also provide a lot of diversity and see different series variations instead of the usual Inferno, Dust2, Cache and Mirage picks with an occasional Train or Overpass and rarely Nuke.
2018-10-11 22:02
#33
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Croatia mds818 
Your system could work in the world where players were replaced by bots, which means no emotions no fatigue only do x if x doesn't work do y and go to z etc. but those factors are always going to be here... that is why once again im returning to the fact of you can have 2 maybe 3 maps at best being played properly Those maps are banned with a reason train: you have shitload of one sided halfs, teams are pretty much getting shut down, not a lot of teams know how to play it(take fnatic and their 13-3 leads turning into 13-16 loses for example) nuke: map just sucks, sounds are terrible for teams, specatating is impossible, casting is impossible, there're no real executions.. rip+plenty of teams challanged astralis at nuke recently Overpass is here on the decent level Also highlights... more maps doesn't really mean more highlights, highlights are created by both good plays and the good PUBLIC, and imo if you ask me this is the best highlight by far youtube.com/watch?v=98eJoWKSePA and also the best match I have ever watched(and it was bo3) not because of that one spraydown but because of the story line(vp being the legends fnatic being hated by everyone losing only 2 and 3 rounds in group stage etc) then you had the whole arena cheering for vp for 3 maps straight etc etc those are the highlights
2018-10-11 22:16
I can see where i said "more maps means more highlights" gets misconstrued but I meant more as there is much more room for highlights. In reality a single Bo1 could have more highlights than 3 different Bo3's combined. Also with the ideology of players needing to be bots in order to withstand a Bo5 is in a way a bit invalid as they are played. With the Bo7 idea i brought up with the original post I knew it would be rejected which is why I just said it would be interesting. With your storyline point that can be created in literally any situation like the Liquid and Astralis Bo1 at FaceIT London which saw the 2 favorites going at it in the group stage. Same can be said for the NaVi and Astralis game in the opening round. Even the insane OT game vs NiP which was the best team in the world going against the legendary team that's finally starting to rise back and get back into the Major cycle. The storyline factor is what does make matches great but that doesn't really weigh up on a Bo3 vs a Bo5 for finals as regardless it would be the same storyline if you had 2 teams that had a story between them
2018-10-11 23:24
#35
yay | 
United States threeiiis 
bo1 major or no balls.
2018-10-11 23:27
+1 Would be fucking awesome actually
2018-10-12 10:05
#36
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Croatia mds818 
Nah dude you misuderstood me, im trying to point out the fact that highlights are not only kills... that is why I said storyline fans/public etc. dude even in the bo5(proper bo5 with 4 or 5 maps it wouldn't work you just get tired... that is why I asked you if you played ON LAN because there's one hell of a difference) ...no you can't be in any situation, good fans in arena are rare, you don't have whole arena booing one team or one person calming down the whole arena(in fact now the whole scene starts crying if someone says one wrong word) etc
2018-10-11 23:44
I meant situational wise with how a series is. With fatigue affecting players it's still a variable for how the series goes but with Bo5s still being played in other tournaments I don't see why it shouldn't be the same for a Major. highlights of course aren't only kills but it's usually what's remembered in most matches. Not many highlights are remembered from crowds other than dumb little things like Sydney flipping off HenryG (I believe it was him) or send them home chants during every C9 match at ELeague Boston which even then was only highlighted in what would be like a preview package for the next Major or like the documentary-esque showing of the Major ELeague aired on TBS, not in most highlights montage.
2018-10-12 00:39
#56
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Croatia mds818 
yeh in the terms of a major vs normal event sure but still you have better chances of legit bo3 than legit bo5, on the other hand it wouldn't be a big difference maker Regarding highlights in terms of making history/being remembered... sure I might remember some highlight frags etc but by highlights I ment highlights in terms in this moment exactly, not watching it after 10 years
2018-10-12 14:48
While yes a Bo3 has more potential to be competitive as both teams in a perfect world would get their best map and would, ideally squash their opponents but, with CS it's always unpredictable. StarSeries alone has shown that thus far with ENCE going 3-0, BiG going down 0-2 and Mouz, HR, and and coL going out in groups. That's one of those unknown factors that would make a Bo5 a bit more interesting since Bo3's tend to be fairly predictable. WIth a Bo5 it both lends itself to higher teams but gives upset potential with the amount of maps played since most top level teams don't study all the low level teams, giving them the edge. Granted you won't see a team like Rogue or Fragsters in a Major final but there's still been some that were shocking to see (Gambit, Immortals, C9, Liquid, FNATIC (Znajder, Devilwalk lineup), LG, and LDLC (not saying they were bad but they only got there because FNATIC FF'd the rematch because the boost)
2018-10-12 15:03
they should play all maps that are in the map pool in the final
2018-10-11 00:25
#7
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France ZinedineZywoo 
Yeah and spend 15hours for one match good idea
2018-10-11 00:29
hahahah i wasnt real
2018-10-11 00:31
#9
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Portugal Pokemine 
1st day 3 maps, 2nd day the rest xD
2018-10-11 00:33
#6
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Canada Timings 
Almost very big event
2018-10-11 00:26
Cuz bo7 would take at least 5 hours (assuming one team wins 4-0) as there are like 10-15 minute breaks between maps and if 1 team does not trash the other a map is around 50 mins to an hours. Imagine 4-3 scoreline that would take nearly 9 maybe 10 hours. People will get bored, players will be dead exhausted, casters wouldnt last too much etc. Bo5 is an interesting option but takes too much away from the underdog. For instance Astralis can play every team on 6 out of 7 maps either better or at least on equal footing meaning they would effectively start 1-0 2-0 against any team diffrent than Faze, Liquid maybe Navi. Whereas in bo3 if you manage to to steal a map a good begining in the next one keeps it real for the lesser teams, makes it more exciting and unpredictable. I think both bo3 and bo5 are fine.
2018-10-11 00:36
I only say having a Bo7 because it would mean you're team can play atleast 4 out of 7 maps in the pool and that can show that the team that wins would be the undisputed best in the world. I would vote for Bo5 over Bo7 just because of the time extent but if some sort of system was made for a Bo7 to make things efficient it would be an interesting option
2018-10-11 00:38
Bo7 is obviously ridiculous. But if you want teams to play all maps - which I actually agree could be interesting - I think a better solution would be to force those maps somehow.
2018-10-12 01:19
The whole idea of it is just concept. My real point of the topic is that they should be a Bo5
2018-10-12 14:44
#17
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United States Farrukh_M 
There was literally a Bo5 that took 8 hours. (SK vs VP at EPICENTER or something)
2018-10-11 00:44
bo7 is useless. every team has a perma ban, and theres only 7 maps in the map pool...
2018-10-11 00:45
Astralis doesn't have a perma ban atm C9 hasn't shown any real perma bans I'm sure there are tons of lower level teams without a perma ban
2018-10-11 01:00
#44
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Denmark Asstralis 
C9? Have you forgotten about N U K E ??????
2018-10-12 01:15
#22
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Denmark Drakem 
1 map 1 hour 7 maps 7 hours LOL
2018-10-11 00:51
"Almost very big event is using Bo5 finals" wrong, get your facts str8 "bo5 semis and Bo7 finals for Majors would make it really interesting" you cant, just CANT be serious with this rofl
2018-10-11 01:05
#26
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Turkey Dust2isBest 
agree
2018-10-11 01:09
#28
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Canada Surzz 
bo5 would be exhausting for the players. but i guess since youre mentioning bo7 this is a dumb bait.
2018-10-11 01:11
In dota TI the team from lowerbracket has to play BO5 and BO2 in the same day and keep in mind playing dota is far more exhausting than cs
2018-10-12 00:52
#45
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Denmark Asstralis 
The ti also has a SIGNIFICANTLY^624627643732746371727 times the prize pool of majors. SO no
2018-10-12 01:16
#48
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Canada Surzz 
keep in mind that dota has a higher prize pool.
2018-10-12 05:24
So you think cs pros arent payed enough for playing couple games a month (including praccs)? If it was 1.6 in 2009 I would agree with you
2018-10-12 10:01
#51
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Canada Surzz 
when did i say that?
2018-10-12 10:06
So what are you implying there? That the higher prizepool in TI gives more motivation to players causing them to feel no exhaust ?
2018-10-12 10:19
#53
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Canada Surzz 
no
2018-10-12 11:07
Then what
2018-10-12 12:18
Bo7??? Flags check out
2018-10-11 01:27
Because no one wants to sit through a 9 hour final.
2018-10-12 01:11
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