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Anyone else hoping for devve #1 so every s1mple fanboy just shuts the hell up already about "DevIcE hAs tEaM beHinD HiM thAtS WhY hE iS tHis goOd"
Only reason s1mple has that high stats is because 2/5ths of his team is useless and he can pad his stats by that. If s1mple plays on Astralis, he wouldn't be at the level he is right now.
Astralis 5 in top 20, NaVi 2 in top 20. Says it all, CSGO is a team game and Dev1ce #1
CSGO is a team game, but the top#20 is not for top 20 teams. is for PLAYERS, and s1mple is way too much better than dev1ce and im not even a s1mple fan /close
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Exactly
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astralis plays just as many games against t3 teams as navi
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wait, navi doesnt go as far in a tournemant, so astralis plays harder opponents
you are right, but astralis also plays more harder opponents than navi
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But even then, would you not agree that simple and even niko is on another level than device in terms of raw skill?
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dude this was 5 months ago why are you replying man :D
yes s1mple is better than device skillwise.
as a teamplayer, I would pick device tho
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hahaha someone mustve bumped the thread, didnt check date.
and fair enough
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+1 top20 is not about teams, it's about individual level of players. (elite / tier1 players only).
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This.
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Dev1ce prob my favorite player, but the raw skill of S1mple is just out of this world, i think he deserves top 1
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
OP CANT LET GO, THIS SHIT IS SO FUNNY
HLTV IS A DANISH SITE AND STILL KNEW DEV WASNT TOP 1
JUST STOP ALREADY
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I think SK were too hard on TACO tho, he was important to them and they realized that :), I don't watch any navi matches than the ones where they are in same tournaments as Astralis and I just don't see him play that well in those but it can be hard to put stats on a player who sacrifice himself I guess
botward has too many botward moments
True that. Although somehow flamie managed to get one of if not the highest rating this year in a single map at 2.99 and yet only have a 1.07 average. Big events only
hltv.org/stats/matches/mapstatsid/60171/..
That is actually an insane rating even though it is QBF. Still higher than anyone else I've seen.
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d3vic3
Yeah, so in 2015 pronax should have been TOP1 because he was a great team player... Device is shit, it is just luck that he is on such a good team. Any player would be as good in his spot.
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Yes, exactly, deserved
there wasnt even a question about it
pronax shit stats, device good stats in a godly team, what
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You say that it is about teamplay, not skill. Pronax - no skill, good team play (like device)
If it is about stats, Simple should be top1
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Where did I say it's about teamplay? I said that Astralis >>>>>>>> NaVi, and 2/5 of players in NaVi are useless, so S1mple can pad his stats WAY more than Dev1ce.
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"csgo is a team game and device #1"
So I say that if it is a team game, why pronax was not in top20 2015. Because he has no skill. Device also has no skill but the only difference is that whole Astralis play the way that he is the most fragging player. Every navi player plays for himself, when there is forcebuy, several times s1mple buys deagle when Zeus has AK. In Astralis everyone would buy awp instead of Kevlar for himself so as device has the awp. He has bigger opportunity to frag and still s1 is better.
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Where do u get that much inside info on the best team in the world? Can u introduce them to me if you know Astralis this good dude, all this insight!
Pronax wasnt there bcuz his stats are bad.
NaVi does this dgl/ak thing because Zeus wont kill with deagle 99.9%, but with ak he has bigger chance to actually get a frag. S1mple has to AGAIN make up for shit teammates, because he can do more damage with deagle then Zeus with AK. In an even team, S1mple wouldn't even be close to anything, because everyone would get the frags other players in NaVi doesnt.
thats just wrong if you are on a better team you win more and you always get better stats than if you are on a bad team
Show me an event where dev had a + 1.6 rating and I’ll agree with you
Oh w8 yu can’t
Cuz s1mple did
Rip you
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If that's how rankings would work, u are clueless.
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Fragging wise he is
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And Zeus didn't adapt and still is on NaVi, how and why
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Yeah won 3 majors with shit strats, at least his strats were interesting and fun to watch, unlike Borestralis
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dude l2r, shit STATS
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Oh my bad lmao
And what godly stats? Playing passive will get you godly stats ofc, ecovice
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Never did I say godly stats.
And since when playing passive isn't smart and what good players do wtf
Not like Device never does anything flashy
Device is shit? That's a bold statement. Try to go in a 1v1 with him then.
It's a mix of achievements and stats. That you claim/wish it to be otherwise doesn't change this fact.
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Ec3vice
If dev1ce gets top1 it will be unfair for s1mple. dev1ce gets lots of MVPs okey its just because his team made it to finals and probably won the event and thats why he is the mvp.
If NaVi could make it to finals same thing could happen with s1mple. Feel sad for s1mple.
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Yea, but thats the thing, if s1mple would have as good as a team Astralis is, he wouldn't have stats like this
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No, he would probably have better. The idea that simple isnt the best player of csgo ever is just insane. His current skill ceiling is so high, only one guy comes close. The kid that does come somewhat close is niko and no ones in a close 3rd behind him. Device's skill is so lacking in comparison to those two. Both niko and simple would destroy device in 1v1s with every weapon, even awp. The amount of work simple and niko have to put in to bring their teams up is like the opposite of what astralis do, astralis put in work to bring device up.
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"astralis put in work to bring device up."
thats just stupid, tf
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He has the best aim and reflexes. If that is all that CS is about to you, he is the best.
I hope I never play on your team....
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A team gets to the final because of their players. If anyone claims that s1mple carried navi to finals then they're delusional. Electronic helps in, zeus makes good calls, flamie and edward is setting their teammates up to succeed as well.
This is a ranking of what actually happened, not a speculation contest of what could've happened. Luckily for s1mple he still performed well enough to get #1 (Which he'll most certainly get). But the mistake most people make is thinking of a players skill ceiling combined with how they play in some games. Like NiKo's epic onetaps as an example. Those are sick as fuck but he doesn't manage to stay at that level for longer periods of time. S1mple and device both manages to maintain their level for most of the year which is why I think they both deserve top 2. S1mple #1 and device #2.
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I agree.
1. Speculations. Its impossible to know really. The ranking is after all based on what is and not what could be.
2. Petar has many times said or implied that it doesn't matter if the star player receives support or not. In fact the star players who recieves support is supposed to get higher rankings because that is their role on the team. To smash the stats and become #1.
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what
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Yep, exactly, team will play around him at ALL times, he can easily get the frags Zeus/Edward cant kill because they are too bad for current CSGO. S1mple wouldn't have these stats if he was in Astralis.
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Chemestry and comms aside, I still think s1mple would have good stats. They'd just be a bit lower than his current ones mostly because he'd have to fit into a completely different playstyle than what NaVi is using. He wouldn't get the same room to make his own decisions. And astralis is big on respecting their IGL and Coach so if he disregard their decisions he'll be right on the chopping block.
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Yea, of course, but I think the difference would drop him to exactly dev1ce stat level, so it is really hard to say who is better.
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Actually, 3/5 players in NaVi are useless, if we compare to Astralis. Flamie showing up time to time isn't enough to call him useful
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Obviously because they are better players and the kills even out between them, no? Not like s1mple
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definitely not lol
the fact that they win so many rounds (because of team play, comunication, and other stuff, not because of stats. stats are numbers, they don't get you rounds) has a positive impact on the stats. just think about it: if you win more rounds you will have more gun rounds with many nades and everything set up properly for you to win even more rounds, they play all the time against enemies who have to eco/semi-buy half of the rounds. you inflate your stats like this. you're obviously gonna get good stats in the long run if you are always in an advantageous position against your enemy
edit: trust me, I study statistics and know what a bias is. I know what I'm talking about. Astralis' players' stats are positively influenced from the fact that they win so much. We all know that stats are only partially a good predictor of who is gonna win a game.
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Dude, try to see it like this.
Kills win you rounds, damage win you rounds, Entries win you rounds, Multikills win you rounds, KAST win you games. It balances out. If a player gets an impact multikill in a full buy round for both sides then that is what wins you more rounds. Then the enemy team might have an eco in next round, sure but if they eco that means they'll be able to buy the round after that as well. I see players like s1mple, players like device and basically every other player have eco aces at one point. So what? It balances somewhat out.
The problem with your comment is that it factors in personal opinions and observations. You can't prove if Device boosts his stats vs eco only and s1mple dont. Not unless you want to watch like 400 hours of gameplay through just to make a fair assessment. And that would be just for 2 players. Then add the extra 5000 hours to watch every single potential top 20 player. I do think though that Petar and Striker will save all of the work they did to find the different MVPs and then glance through that. For instance, why did S1mple get MVPs even though he lost, was it close or was it a stomping. How close were dupreeh at getting the MVP at the major, stuff like that. So I'd say Petar and Striker have a pretty good understanding on who deserves what, did they boost their stats or did they earn it.
I got a bit sidetracked there I guess but you can't say that Astralis boosts their stats because of teamwork. Fun fact, you have no idea on how they communicate, is it effective. I'm sure their teamwork is excellent but the reasonable logic is that it is the same for every team. Good teamwork might help but so what? If the individual shines under good teamwork then let it be at that. If the individual is boosting his stats more than others against eco's then I'm sure that Petar will have notes on it. But my personal point stands.
I'd still argue that astralis winning isn't the sole cause of their good stats. Their individual skill is. Their teamwork is in no way the main difference maker regarding their stats.
EDIT: Might as well add that I've spent countless of hours just looking through stats on HLTV, reading tweets by Petar and Striker, reading articles explaining why someone got the MVP over someone else, why he was ranked where he was, how does he compare to a disputed person the community thinks should be higher. I've spent many hours just thinking why does it work like this. Wouldn't it be better to do it like this? And then I've thought of a reasonable explanation for why that wouldn't work in the real world. I've found a reasonable stand point for why everything works as it does. I've come to the conclusion that the current ranking system is the best possible way to rank people without personal bias. I'd say that I'm reasonably qualified to make comments on the matter.
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The thing is, you're arguing with me as if I said somewhere that the current ranking system is not good or that I think that it's unfair that astralis players are ranked the way they are (will be). I agree with you that the actual HLTV ranking is as unbiased and consistent as it can possibly be. I'm not arguing over Petar or Striker not doing their work properly. The bias comes from how the game itself works. If you win more rounds you will get better stats, that's a causality, even more if you win in such a fashion like astralis does. It's a team game and astralis are maybe the best team EVER at exploiting this. Think about nade stacks and all the stuff they do to allow ALL of their players to shine, to get multikills, to get good entries, and such. If you really watch them so much as you say there's no way you haven't noticed how damn good they are at getting ALWAYS the best odds. And it's not about raw skill is about much much more. They stated it themselves. This huge improvement they had and the dominance that it resulted from doesn't come from spending more hours on dm or aimbotz servers. They are improving over many other aspects of the game where other teams lag light years behind.
The ranking is fair. There is probably no way you could really make it more consistent than the way it is. BUT still, how the game works makes it so that players from winning teams will always have "inflated stats". And by inflated I don't mean in any case that it's not deserved, since they're part of the team and therefore indispensible factor of success. I just mean that if they were to play under other conditions they would in no way have the same stats.
Just to make a """"similar"""" example. If you have much money your chances of getting even richer are way higher than if you have less money. This doesn't mean that at the end of year your returns should be scaled so that it's fair for the others (if we make the assumption that your starting condition of having much money actually comes from hard work).
Having much money = astralis' infrastructure, staff, teamplay, communication, strategy book, coach, family, whatever makes them SO much different from the other teams
Chances of getting richer = chances of having better stats
Returns = HLTV stats
The stats of Astralis' players are right the way they are and they don't need to be scaled since they worked hard in order to "have much money". It's right that they have "higher returns" than the others, but you cannot forget the fact that had if they had "less money" they would get "smaller returns".
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Alright, I bow down. I'm often getting sidetracked when commenting and this seems as a mix of me misunderstanding you, me getting sidetracked and mistaking you as a typical HLTV user.
Astralis mentioned themselves that they don't focus on quantity but rather quality. They believe themselves to be one of the teams who practices the least amongst the top tier teams. So in reality it is also their discipline in giving it their all when countering their opponents and being not only on the same page but also on the same line that makes them different from all of the other teams.
I understand what you're getting at with your money analogy though the difference here is that some of the other big orgs have the resources to make it happen, they just don't. This should start changing this year at one point if astralis continues to dominate.
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I really hope so. Astralis is fun to watch. But watching them compete against other teams on the same level would be even more fun!
Anyway if you still are unsure of what I mean just go on and read the interview of gla1ve on his top8 placement. He states himself at some point that "looking good on a winning team is so much easier than doing it on the losing one". They're definitely the best team in the world and I'm happy that all of them got also individually credited, but hopefully 2019 will be a little be more competitive and then we won't have inflated stats :D
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You aren't alone and I'm bookmarking all delusional fans to laugh at them later
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s1mple is #1 2018
/closed
Simple for king
I'll come back when you'll be crying over s1mple being first and ecovice being 2nd :)
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idc who is first, i just love everyone riding simples dick
XD
How does one stat pad if his team plays badly. You know ranking is not made by comparing your stats to your team mates, it’s just made by using your own stats
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Well, if Edward and Zeus goes 5-15, someone has to get the frags they don't, there are more chance for more kills --> higher stats.
There is noone on Astralis who would often go 5-15 type of scores --> not that high rating, since it just evens out.
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there also way more chances to die, you they use K/D and ADR in the rating, not the amount of kills you get
So by your logic if we put YOU in Na`Vi instead of S1mple you gonna frag the same as S1mple, cuz Edward and Zeus are bad, right?
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Wtf how are u this stupid
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Sure, when you got 0 arguments you start shit talking. GJ to prove it again.
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No, u are just stupid, why would I ever compare myself to simple? I'm trash, I'm comparing two of the best players, u just write some random bs about things I've never said
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You said that's it's easy to be a fragger, when your teammates are weak fraggers. I already explained that it's absolute bullshit. It's much easier to be top fragger when you got well-structured team and all peaces are fine... So it's much harder for S1mple to be a carry and he is doing it much better than S1mple, even in much much worse conditions.
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It's not easy to be top fragger in a balanced team, because literally everyone frags. But I see your point, I don't deny that simple is doing rly fukcing good.
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atsukaa, paleka vel uz simple pipeles
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Lmao, kā tu man vari dirst par to kā es rakstu, fucking krievs, foršs favorite team btw
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Viss cool, dw
not s1mple #1
Since 2016 simple is god of csgo and he is much better than devve
If simple played in Astralis, he would have had much better stats
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obvious fangay
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lululllululululululullululululululullululululullululul. cry more
+111111111111111 People forgot how others compared him with coldzera for top1 spot. But HLTV put him too low only cuz his team was bad.
Without simple, NaVi is maybe a top 15 team, without device Astralis is still a top 3 team. S1mple is a better player
Its neither only stats and neither only teamplay. Its a fucking combination of everything - stats, tropies, teamplay and so on. Best player of the year is not only stats...
The same in other sports. A very skilled player in a bad team with zero trophies would never ever be player of the year. That would never happen.
Everything needs to be taking into account..
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Exactly, that's what tgw1rlis tweeted about, even though Niko might have been top1 in like 2016, we would never know, cuz he was bashing tier3 at the time.
dev1ce is a smarter player and hold angles
S1mple is mainly outdueling people cause he know he can
If you get both into a 1v1 purely based on aim s1mple would win.
For example if you put dev1ce in NaVi assuming they have no comms issue, NaVi may well crumble cause they don't have an extra player alongside Electronic to find openings cause dev1ce would probably just hold angles, not say his a bad player but clearly s1mple by far is better.
Take out achievement,team and etc and have every player to be at their prime, dev1 wouldn't even be in top 10 tbh, if he did it would be marginal.
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What the fuck
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It doesn't have as heavy influence as 2/5ths of your team being nonexistent and simple being able to get their frags
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Its never been like that
Take device and cold for examples
Last year neither player has become improved or declined skillwise but their teams have improved and declined leading to colds stats falling while playing just as well as he did in 2017 and devices stats rising while he hasnt gotten better as a player
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Good point, one of the rare ones that make sense in this thread.
S1mple is better. Proved by everything.
/close
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U mean 99% of who call device trash and simple the Jesus of csgo? Literally almost noone said anything good about device ever
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I mean, it's not the ONLY reason, but it definitely has huge influence on him having that much higher rating than device/any other player
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Niko didn't do shit to deserve #2
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Device has more save kills than s1mple lol
Device is the one padding stats lmao
Takes 5 min of searching on hltv to find this
He does have a Team behind - and that's why Astralis is winning. you don't win Tournaments by being the only one who consistently performs on your team.
s1mple is the better player Individually - but being a better player doesn't necessarily win you events.
HLTV's top 20 is a list of the best individuals not who won the most tournaments lists.
S1mple will be #1, Device #2, Niko #3
And I don't really get why people would say dev1ce is any worse because he has good teammates, it is a team based game after all. In my opinion, Device isn't even the 2nd best player in the world.
Niko is a better individual than Dev1ce but the fact that Niko Achieved nothing this year drags him down to 3rd.
Dev1ce is an incredible player but not nearly as good as s1mple.
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We can actually throw away the stats and teams. If e will compare device to his own teammates = device isn't even 2nd best player in Astralis. Boosting his stats only on Eco and Exitfrags. His is uselles against buy rounds and gets carried by Magisk, dupreeh and gla1ve. Never compare this ecobot to s1mple or NiKo.
CSGO has always had the privilege of the best player of the year always being on the best team of the year.
2014 is a bit less obvious where the best team was more debatable - but GTR still was consistently top 2 or 3 all year so fair enough.
For the first time ever, the best player of the year is not, and has never been, on the best team. I think people are conflating MVPs and victories with what the award it about, individual skill/hard carry potential/sheer impact on the scoreboard/ winning games for your team consistently. It just so happened that the players that were #1 were also on the #1 team, meaning that they would win the tournament and since they were the best on the team, they won the MVP. Simple. But now, in 2018, we have seen a player on the level that we have arguably never seen before in CS history. Never before has a player been so fantastic for so long and at such level of consistency whilst never being on the best team in the world in CSGO. The only other comparison for CSGO would be late 2014 to early 2015 kennyS where he was insane and not on the best team. His peak was a similar level to s1mple but for not as long. Fantastic player, but not a candidate for GOAT.
Now to back up my argument, here are some statistics:
-1.33 rating average on LAN in 2018
These are some god tier stats. Peak rating - 1.52 at DH Marseilles. Lowest rating - 1.19 at ELEAGUE PREMIER
and EPL s7 finals. Forget coldzera and his never dropping below a 1.0 rating, s1mple has never dropped below 1.19 rating OVER THE ENTIRE YEAR. 1.19 (remember NiKo's average rating is 1.21 and device is 1.24) NiKo's average is only 0.02 higher than s1mple's lowest and only 0.05 for device. Imagine being that far ahead of the other top 3 players. Just insane. Not to mention the times he went +100 or more during events. +141 at starseries s4; +103 at DH Marseilles; +161 at starseries s5; +142 at ESL One Cologne. NiKo only has one +100 at ESL One Belo Horizonte (+100) and device has never gone +100 in 2018.
-5 MVP awards
Second only to device in this category (with 7 MVPs) but I think it speaks volumes about the difference between these two players when you see that s1mple only won 3 of those tournaments whereas device won all 7. You will never see device winning MVP awards when he loses in the finals (although, to be fair, Astralis rarely lose). s1mple's performances at star series ileague season 4 and DH Marseilles were two of the greatest carry performances of all time against the absolute top of the field in CS. Remember how stacked those tournaments were (11/16 of top 16 in the world for star series according to hltv and 12/16 for DH Marseilles). Not to mention his ESL One Cologne MVP at the biggest and best non major tournament and most stacked tournament of the year.
-Rating in close games
In a recent tweet by lurppis he stated his issue with the HLTV ranking is that rating is highly influenced by round difference, meaning that since Astralis have been so dominant and have been winning with a large round difference It means that the consistently best player on Astralis (device) will have a higher rating than other players in worse teams regardless of skill difference between those two players.
twitter.com/tomi/status/1084259257044819..
There is a fantastic reddit thread in which it discusses the rating of players in close games (where the losing team wins at least 10 rounds.
reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/af..
The statistics here are mind boggling for s1mple. I think it is best summarised in the thread: "This really shows how consistently amazing s1mple's year has been, he keeps his exact rating in close games [1.35] that he had in all games [1.33]. The rating gap between him and niko (2) [0.16] is larger than the gap between niko and xyp9x (20) [0.14]. Absolutely nuts."
Remember, he also plays with the AWP. Now who would you say have been the best AWPers of 2018?
GuardiaN? device? oskar? s1mple?
Many people, such as myself, would argue for s1mple. Now imagine being the best AWPer in the world without even being a main AWPer. Imagine having an even better rifle. We used to say that GuardiaN's and kennyS' rifles were good "for an AWPer." For s1mple they are just good. Actually no, they are godlike. Best in the world by far. Imagine being better at rifling than AWPing, yet still having a better awp than anyone else. Absolutely insane.
Because of this play style, he is a very versatile player. Need a quick AWP pick down mid on inferno? s1mple's your man. Need a 2 man entry into bathrooms on overpass? s1mple can deal with that. He can always take over a game, you don't need to pump all the resources into him for an AWP that he needs - like a kennyS. That's the flaw of your best player being an AWPer.
Now what about the counter arguments for device?
Okay, so device has won more tournaments this year. 10 compared to 3.
device was more MVP awards. 7 compared to 5.
These are stats where you can say device is better than s1mple.
These two arguments can simply be explained by saying that device is on a better team than s1mple. Undoubtedly. device doesn't have a bot IGL, he has gla1ve, one of the best fragging in game leaders of all time. device doesn't have a player in Edward dragging the team down, he has Xyp9x, the "worst" player on Astralis but still the best clutch player of the year clearly and one of the best of all time and still #13 on 2018 ranking.
Since device is the best player on Astralis, it means that he will tend to be statistically the best on his team and therefore win the MVP award. Therefore we can say that device's MVP awards are mainly a team award, or at least, only available to him because of his team. And that's the crux of the debate. But we need to remember. This is a top 20 players list, not a top 20 teams list. Team achievements are not individual player achievements. Yes, you need to be on a good enough team in order to make it to the big LAN events to play against the best teams in the world but that's it. And are you really going to argue that s1mple is not on a team that plays at the big tournaments?
What I finally want to say is that I think that s1mple will be the NEO of CSGO. He has been playing since 2014 and is only 21 yet he has still been #4 2016 and #8 2017 on hltv rankings, and now #1. He has easily been a top 5 player for 3 years now and hes never been on the best team in the world. He still has a whole career ahead of him. If CIS ever has the best team in the world, expect this guy to be there going fucking nuts on everyone else. Don't be surprised to see him pop up at the top of the rankings for years to come, just as NEO did in the second half of 1.6.
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nice writeup, gj
0/8 device not deserve top20
DevveKING>s1mple
xaxaxaxaxaxa
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