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Zeus/Karrigan trash
United States SauceCSGO 
Why does everyone think Zeus/Karrigan are such good IGL? Obviously you guys think since they are so individually skill-wise trash that means they are great IGL. Zeus is not a smart cs player compared to others and Karrigan is nothing special. If you believe I am wrong change my mind.
2019-01-23 20:05
#1
Ukraine Pham_ 
Put gla1ve in envy and you will see no difference between karrigan and gla1ve himself
2019-01-23 20:07
Gla1ve is better individually so that will be already something, plus I would take gla1ve in any "thinking" situation over Karrigan. Basing on Gla1ve's clutch potential and plays.
2019-01-23 20:08
#12
Twistzz | 
Russia Roneee 
Idk about karrigan, but.. Zeus with NaVi - top2 team Zeus leaves NaVi to Gambit Gambit -major winners + top4 NaVi - top15 Zeus back to NaVi Gambit - top10 (i dont say about today roster, i say about old squad + fitch) NaVi - top2
2019-01-23 20:13
This is a solid argument but I think the Gambit major won was a transition period for a lot of CSGO teams and the "spirit" of that team won them the tournament. I think Zeus would be a great coach, but as a player I think IGL's should not only be calling strats but be some of the smartest on the map.
2019-01-23 20:21
#45
tabseN | 
Germany NatsuS 
great spirit if they wanna throw their coach out. But they didn't see Zeus reaction incoming and they destroyed themselves. Most important for an IGL is that players listen to you especially young players like S1mple and Electronic. And they respect Zeus. This is not something you have if he is a coach. Yeah, they would listen but there is nothing more than words. That is why coaching can do a guy like YNK who I would never respect as a pro player. Maybe as human but not as coach.
2019-01-23 22:39
I honestly, don't think S1mple respects Zeus. S1mple respects navi and probably Kane, but I doubt Zeus is super respected just because he is known for costing navi many times. Obviously, they are great partly because of him, but when you have so many chances to win and you do not, then questions arise.
2019-01-23 22:41
#50
tabseN | 
Germany NatsuS 
Kane? Why he should respect him? LUL. Navi was bad without Zeus no matter who played there. Luckily they aren't toxic like the French scene who hate their only IGL that had success. This is an important thing. Even if you don't win, you know there is no better option. Look at BIG with GobB. All players know without him they will lose and there is no option to replace him.
2019-01-23 22:47
s1mple doesnt respect zeus... man for real dont you see when s1mple want to make a call or something zeus shut him up, dont know if it still like that, but that happened one time
2019-01-23 22:49
#58
tabseN | 
Germany NatsuS 
You again LUL. Bye bye
2019-01-23 23:15
#46
 | 
Germany AdiZen 
zeus is a great igl what are you talking about his performance jsut sucks but he has won alot of cups. His arguments are better than yours...
2019-01-23 22:40
"zeus is a great igl what are you talking about his performance jsut sucks but he has won alot of cups." are you meming, are you retarded?
2019-01-23 22:42
#51
 | 
Germany AdiZen 
so basically you are the meme trying to tell that an IGL is bad even though every time he joined a time the team got better and when he left the team drastically got worse. Also, you can not find out if an IGL is good or bad just from the outside because you never know what strats they have and how motivated each player is or if in that moment someone else called. You can only see it from if he changed anything in the team so that they win or lose. Karrigan for example is a decent IGL from the outside perspective but he is not close to gla1ve or Zeus because they achieved alot. Karrigan is just overrated because he was in FaZe and they were playing well with him but thats usually the case in good firepower teams with decent igls.
2019-01-23 22:47
are u fuckin dumb
2019-01-23 23:00
#57
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Germany AdiZen 
ye nice argumentation just shows how hard you defend your opinion
2019-01-23 23:03
#90
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Lithuania N0PEr 
Lol he has nothing to say anymore
2019-01-24 11:02
no, did you just see what he wrote? "Karrigan is just overrated because he was in FaZe and they were playing well with him but thats usually the case in good firepower teams with decent igls."
2019-01-26 21:58
Na'Vi without Electronic top 15 with Electronic top 2, Zeus plays for Na'Vi like 6 months and he literally change nothing in 2017
2019-01-24 00:08
+1
2019-01-24 08:54
navi still sucked with zeus, when electronic joined it went upwards
2019-01-24 08:50
#42
ZywOo | 
Austria EL_HEFFE 
u remember any glaive highlights? i dont remember, nobody remembers
2019-01-23 22:37
#43
ZywOo | 
Austria EL_HEFFE 
but i remember karrigan clutches
2019-01-23 22:37
#91
 | 
Lithuania N0PEr 
I do
2019-01-24 11:02
#92
 | 
Russia og_loc 
+1 Yesterday I was so shocked when I saw kirrigan stats vs teamone. Now I'm surprised how Faze won anything at all with this bot
2019-01-24 11:08
Compared to yourself they probably are extremely good. Compared to gla1ve you are probably the bottom of the losers bracket.
2019-01-24 12:50
#4
 | 
Russia Mah_one_des 
"put gla1ve in the team instead of karrigan" thats how Astralis stopped choking lmao
2019-01-23 20:10
#8
device | 
Portugal kaseiro 
ahahha +1
2019-01-23 20:12
i.imgur.com/TXt2bkf.png Yeah they definitely stopped choking after adding glaive OMEGALUL
2019-01-23 20:21
<3 karrigan and you are so retarded for even putting anything against Gla1ve, he is a god.
2019-01-23 20:22
Yeah I'm retarded because I'm stating facts, they were choking whole year after adding glaive, but yeah, it's me who is retarded :*
2019-01-23 20:23
best team in history :)
2019-01-23 22:35
Only because Dev2ce stopped throwing every play-off game and they upgraded shakebye to tomato boy, that's when they stopped choking every event not after adding rat face glaive.
2019-01-23 22:38
ur a fucking idiot get off my screen u fucking toilet cleaner
2019-01-23 22:37
lol Someone is mad. Go lick glaive's ass.
2019-01-23 22:38
its okay my favorite team kicked gla1ves ass at boston and won it all while ur <3 choked on a massive TarikCOCK
2019-01-23 23:01
Cool, you want a cookie for that or what because I don't understand what it have to do with our conversation about astralis choking for over a year after glaive joined the team?
2019-01-24 00:37
Choking? Do you know what that means in relation to sports/esports?
2019-01-26 21:58
How do you call 13 months of not winning as single event finishing every time in play-offs?
2019-01-26 22:08
A team that has potential but can't win. Choking would be when Liquid let LG comeback or something like the football premier league and Chelsea would be first by 15 points and would lose that lead, that would be considered choking. Astralis wasn't number 1 in the world and never lost "everything" they just didn't gain much by not winning playoff stages.
2019-01-26 22:22
A major champion who can't win anything for 13 months 12 times finishing 2-4. If that's not choking...
2019-01-26 22:30
Its not
2019-01-27 01:10
OK, if you say so... de*cough*lusional... take care.
2019-01-27 01:21
toilet cough cleaner. karriedgan
2019-01-27 05:30
#26
 | 
Russia Mah_one_des 
astralis with gla1ve 2 majors TSM/astralis with karribot 0 majors
2019-01-23 20:31
only because dev2ce stopped playing in every play-off game like an utter bot not because of gla1ve.
2019-01-23 20:32
No it's because they got a GOOD IGL hltv.org/matches/2303384/virtuspro-astra.. Look at this shit, device +25 and karrigan is just a bit better than zonic Karrigan will never ever win a major Feels fucking good man.
2019-01-24 08:58
So what that karrigan will not win major, should I cry about it or something? Neither will Ence. But it doesn't change the fact that glaive turned astralis into the famous chokestralis after he joined.
2019-01-24 12:45
" turned astralis into the famous chokestralis after he joined." he literally won a major after 2 months LMAO You're so in denial it's almost laughable
2019-01-24 12:48
Have you even watched CS during 2017 or are you sucha a newfag that only thing you know is astralis dominating?
2019-01-24 12:50
yeah because 2017 is such a long time ago ahaha le chokestralis meme :D i'm le oldfag :D dumbass they were callied chokestralis because they were winning t1 events, even more so when they were in TSM, but they couldn't get in a fucking major final to save their life, guy went and won at this first try, Karrigan can suck his dick for life, end of the discussion. b-but it's was a f-fluke!!!
2019-01-24 13:22
of course it was a fluke lmao they won 3 events in their honeymoon period after glaive joined because teams didn't know how to counter their playstyle yet and after that they were irrelevant for the next 13 months not winning a single event in that period every time choking in play-offs. They can kiss VP on their asses for choking that major final harder than a virgin during deepthroat.
2019-01-24 13:27
yeah choking with dennis, rubino, pimp and other shitters they won their last even in March then they were shit for 6-7 months, then device got sick and they had to play with a different player every event "it was a fluke" imagine saying that with a straight face, after he won another major the next year "NO NOO IT WAS ALL MAGISK'S NOT GLAIVE, GLAIVE BAD, KARRIGAN GOOD!!!" cope. glaive is a better IGL, a better aimer, a better clutcher, deal with it
2019-01-24 13:34
"it wasn't a fluke" Imagine saying that with a straight face when they didn't win shit after that for 13 months. First of all please show me where I've said that glaive is bad. Are you actually an idiot or what? What I'm saing is stop treating this fucker like some fucking saviour, because he is only a part of astralis success and dev2ce becoming consistent plus adding magisk had a much bigger influence on their success than adding glaive.
2019-01-24 13:38
Also their 1st major was a fluke and a disgusting throw in a final by VP.
2019-01-23 20:34
actually it was magiskboy
2019-01-26 22:02
put Gla1ve in Faze they win a lot more events than they did last year
2019-01-23 20:12
#13
 | 
Luxembourg fowkingell 
I beg to differ, not only is gla1ve better individually he's also a much better igl.
2019-01-23 20:13
#67
 | 
United States ferric 
gla1ve going to envy and staying there for a few months would literally make them a top 10 team in the world just like that.
2019-01-24 00:06
#3
 | 
Ukraine Najara 
Zeus has spirit of chamion when karrigan is just another bot
2019-01-23 20:10
#5
 | 
Russia Mah_one_des 
2019-01-23 20:11
#9
 | 
Europe FoolishExpert 
spirit doesnt carry on to his performance
2019-01-23 20:12
#37
 | 
Ukraine Najara 
2019-01-23 21:09
You need spririt to win
2019-01-24 10:47
+1 theyre garbage trash
2019-01-23 20:12
+1
2019-01-23 20:12
#11
NBK- | 
Germany PeetM 
I agree on zeus But karrigan isnt that bad tbh, i think he can definitely play on tier 1 with stars around him
2019-01-23 20:13
I actually prefer zeus over karrigan. K is an absolute bot.
2019-01-23 20:19
You are talking like Zeus isnt a complete bot..
2019-01-24 08:58
#14
 | 
Brazil cadik 
zeus god without zeus s1mple is nobody
2019-01-23 20:14
Yeah maybe because S1mple has to kill everyone zeus can't hit
2019-01-23 20:20
three questions: what was faze before karrigan? what was navi without zeus? what was gambit without zeus? those 3 teams reached their peak with "bots" like zeus and karrigan in the team, i wonder why humm
2019-01-23 20:16
Faze has Niko Olof and Guardian as well as Rain, you are going to tell me Karrigan made them better? Smh
2019-01-23 20:20
everyone contributed for the team success, INCLUDING the igl aka mr karrigan edit: you still didnt answer the others, i wonder why
2019-01-23 20:22
I answered it above botpito
2019-01-23 20:23
3 questions, 1 answer nice NA math, mr burger
2019-01-23 20:37
Above as in the top of the thread, nice try retard
2019-01-23 22:34
questions: what was faze before karrigan? what was navi without zeus? what was gambit without zeus? answer: Zeus is not a smart cs player compared to others and Karrigan is nothing special. i wonder who is the retard! oh well, maybe thats why you dont understand, i forgive you burgerhead
2019-01-24 00:36
#25
 | 
United Kingdom Charlie___ 
I mean we will see how terrible the faze is with Niko IGL ing so we will see how good karrigan is
2019-01-23 20:23
#34
 | 
Germany Fabbsen 
I think his IGLing won't help them getting further. They can only rely on their aim which will be their downfall imo. They can do some damage but i don't think they can be a consistent force
2019-01-23 20:43
#30
 | 
Germany Fabbsen 
Funny how those players can't even win against a Ghost with a Stand-In and that twice in a row haha
2019-01-23 20:39
2 or 3 maps is not quite a good sample size to rush into conclusions, but no doubt that it is funny
2019-01-23 20:41
#32
 | 
Germany Fabbsen 
Ofc not but for players of that caliber its a humiliation to lose twice against a team like that who are even using a stand in. I think the team will be able to do some damage but i doubt they'll be a top team in long terms
2019-01-23 20:43
steel mastermind coming in clutch with igl skills only time will tell, but watching how current cs top teams are usually based on a structured way, i must say I dont have much hope for this line up, lets see!
2019-01-23 20:50
#49
 | 
Hungary Bonte 
Did you watch faze in 2016? Faze hasn't made the playoffs once until karrigan joined. He achieved the best result of the org with two days of practice. They were constantly improving before niko, olof or guardian joined. If this guy didn't change your mind, you're hopeless
2019-01-23 22:46
Its not that Zeus has so extremely amazing tacs. Its just that he is an amazing leader, he makes top players play better, motivates them and team gets more secure
2019-01-23 20:44
#35
NiKo | 
Belgium ZxTox 
Karrigan is the smartest cs player alive
2019-01-23 20:45
Two BOTs that never really were good in CS:GO, I doubt in any version. Money leeches, disrespectful abusers.
2019-01-23 22:55
+1 Karrigan is overrated AF.
2019-01-23 23:18
#71
 | 
United States jay_320 
Your both dumb. Zues and Karrigan were star players in 1.6.
2019-01-24 00:14
Two BOTs that never really were good in CS:GO
2019-01-24 16:17
Zeus great IGL my ass. I will never forget their B mirage setup with edward and zeus. Terorrists just went b every round and won until s1mple started to overrotate and caused chaos in positions. Any IGL with a bit of brain will never put two of weakest individually players on B site.
2019-01-23 23:01
#65
tabseN | 
Germany NatsuS 
Any Top ten send their worst players on B. Mouz best example Styko always alone on B. I will never forget Fallens Inferno mid go through the smoke at 14-15 against Astralis. But I would never say he is a bad IGL. He is the only reason why Brasil can compete at Top Tier 1 level. Same with Navi. Beside Navi CIS region has nothing to offer for top 20. And without Zeus we saw what happened.
2019-01-23 23:19
We haven't seen what happened, this version of Na'Vi with setup roles never played without those two BOTs. If they got some real talent, they could compete Astralis.
2019-01-24 00:00
#107
tabseN | 
Germany NatsuS 
We saw what happened. Zeus leave drop down into nirvana. Zeus joins oh Navi is alive
2019-01-24 16:11
It's not about Zeus, he was useless on either team. Na'Vi got electronic and s1mple working together, Na'Vi will be tier 3 without them.
2019-01-24 18:08
#114
tabseN | 
Germany NatsuS 
they had simple before Zeus came back again. Helped not so much in terms of becoming top 3
2019-01-24 18:15
He was tied with GuardiaN, as a result form of both dropped because they lietened to incompetent seized. He's even worse.
2019-01-24 18:17
lul zeus and karrigan are very good igl's. without karrigan faze wouldn't be top 1/top 2 team in 2k17 and in the 1st half of 2018 also without zeus NaVi suck for 2!!!! years, but with him igling they are top 2!!!! team
2019-01-24 00:10
#72
 | 
United States jay_320 
Karrigan is an excellent IGL and one of the most underrated CSGO pros of all time going off this post. I mean this guy brought together the core that became the best team of all time and then went on a short but dominant run with Faze. Stopped only a few times by SK and C9 who just wanted it more. He improves every team in the world but Astralis as far as I'm concerned. Zeus I never thought was that good tactically but he's got that ability to call games on T side and almost always get 7 rounds. He puts people in positions to win. So despite his assholish tendencies and shitty fragging power I'm going to say he's still one of the better IGL's in our scene.
2019-01-24 00:18
#77
Indonesia Elce 
Karrigan is smart, but lack of skill Zeus good in the old time
2019-01-24 08:38
karrigan wasnt even that bad individual player in 2015 when he was in TSM
2019-01-24 08:41
#84
 | 
Macau Bent0 
you may think that zeus and karrigan is trash but compare to other igl they are top tier lol I remember people talking about how Ange1 is top 1 CIS IGL lmao, HR is so fucking bad and I'm woxic and issa fan (rip bondick never4get). They have no strat and their mid round call is fucking bad. starix is a legend but he's so bad now in runtime.gg
2019-01-24 09:01
Zeus legend!
2019-01-24 09:05
#87
Zeus | 
Finland Olter 
zeus top 1 igl over csgo existance no doubt!
2019-01-24 10:48
Being top 2 team and being bad????
2019-01-24 10:53
#89
 | 
Turkey CHAMPTZ 
CS isn't just about going solo and getting kills.
2019-01-24 10:56
#97
 | 
Indonesia tsokai 
they WAS good but not anymore
2019-01-24 12:49
#126
 | 
Vietnam ponmemes 
were*
2019-01-27 05:45
Anyone who doesnt rate Karrigan as one of the best IGL's right now and of all time in cs clearly doesnt understand that cs isnt just about how many kill you can get
2019-01-24 12:55
He's the best from the bottom. He's handless, you can't rely on him, he pretends to be important while his mates always have to kill the double of default amount of frags because he's never able to do it himself. Every team he was on became better once that chubby checker got fired.
2019-01-24 18:12
#108
tabseN | 
Germany NatsuS 
Karrigan is the perfect IGL to build a team and give them a base to work on. He did it in Astralis. He did it in faze. But at some point he falls apart.
2019-01-24 16:14
#125
allu | 
Indonesia KAKKIKU 
I just leave this right here youtu.be/9gdri7m-ges
2019-01-27 05:44
#127
XigN | 
Korea crepes 
Karrigan has devoted his entire career to developing talent and has done so successfully in many cases. Also is one of the better IGLs out there currently.
2019-01-27 06:08
#128
 | 
Brazil spaark1 
trash?! gtfo
2019-01-27 06:25
zeus is a legendary IGL and player, clearly you have not seen his 1.6 fragging performances just look at where he took gambit and where they are after he left karrigan on the other hand is a good IGL but crap player i would not keep him around for too long
2019-01-27 06:43
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