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Christians come here
Magisk | 
Israel epicgamermoment420 
“God is good”. And yet the God of Christianity creates sentient beings only to suffer in hell for eternity, those who will not abide by his rules will be condemned to eternal damnation. Free will? Then God is not omnipotent. “I have free will but God already knows the infinitely possible choices and outcomes” - Then it is never Free will to begin with. Did i have a choice being born into this world? Able to feel? Have a soul? Able to think? No - none of these at all. Yet it was almighty God who chose me to be here, and when I am able to think just a little bit more - and know facts, logic, causation, and overall - philosophy, I am told to rely by faith. I am not denying a supreme being that created all things living or non. I am angry and mad, why would a creator give life and consciousness only to watch that poor soul suffer in eternal hell? For God knew beforehand who will pass under his judgement, even before he laid the foundations of the Earth, before the first material light came into existence, He knew exactly how many will suffer in hell for his “holiness”. This is the problem I have with the Christian God, and it disturbs me so much that I doubt one exists.
2019-03-19 05:48
#1
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Laos 23^ 
stay off the weeeeeed
2019-03-19 05:51
Tbf havent smoked for 10 days now so im clean bro
2019-03-19 05:58
Opinion discarded
2019-03-19 06:25
give yourself to the lord ,
2019-03-19 05:57
Already did, actually was a reformed christian years ago
2019-03-19 05:58
#63
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Ukraine EarthAintFlat 
was?
2019-03-19 09:29
Religion in 2019, lol that’s soooo 1500’s
2019-03-19 06:05
#7
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Turkey 0vercast 
Even 1500s are too much modern for any religion
2019-03-19 06:07
#6
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United States sicknasty 
Did someone just get done with grade 9 english?
2019-03-19 06:06
#8
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Turkey 0vercast 
Yes, he is speaking English better than all Americans
2019-03-19 06:08
Word usage depends on context, also expected from fateriburger lul rekt
2019-03-19 06:11
Unexpected from esrael
2019-03-19 06:20
#10
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Poland H!elo 
My name is not Christian but I came here. Don't ban plox
2019-03-19 06:14
Hell wasn’t intended for humans but when sin came into the world, humans were doomed for hell unless they did all those old convanent rules. The death and resurrection for Jesus gave humans a way to make it to heaven. If God wasn’t loving he wouldn’t have done that for us. Salvation is a gift to humanity and they have the choice to accept or refuse it. Although if you are to say why did God create humans if he knew what was going to happen. No one knows the definite answer to this because we can’t comprehend that idea with finite minds. I’m not pushing religion onto anyone I’m just informing what Christianity really is.
2019-03-19 06:16
Im not insulting you but I can see that your theology is still very young and thus you failed to actually put insight to my post.
2019-03-19 06:18
Apologies, I still have much to learn.
2019-03-19 06:23
Also, youre making it sound like sin coming into the world was a surprise and thus God “devised” a way to “cleanse” us from sin and that this is a “such a loving gift”. When in fact, everything from the start was already planned. It was knew from the beginning what would happen even before Adam and Eve were created, so, it really wasnt that much of a gift and love gesture from your God.
2019-03-19 06:21
I mean we can’t really know why God started everything if he knew what was going to happen. The closest answer I can think of is that without the option of sin, wouldn’t we just be robotic, breathing things that worship God 24/7 because that’s the only choice?
2019-03-19 06:26
Yeah, thats the dilemma of Gods self contradictinf nature. The bible says to leave it to faith and just believe. But if God cant even keep an ordered nature, all arguments pertaining to objective logic falls into irrelevance. If were not breathing robots and can actually think ahead of things that God wont know then that means we can know things God can not know - yet the bible says God knows ALL things: and that even the hairs in your head are counted and the sand in the ocean, but he cant know whether im rushing B or A.
2019-03-19 06:32
I can know whether you're rushing A or B and it still be your choice though, you can know something without yourself making it happen. The concept of God exists outside of time, while time is a measure of change God never changes in theory. He can know all that was and is to come while in this moment you are making decisions that propagate change.
2019-03-19 06:55
Yes I can be held accountable for the choices I make, and choose independently. But in a larger scale, God will already know if Im going to hell or not. Whats the point of creating millions of sentient beings knowing theyre going to suffer, and this is irreversible - accept your fate or nothing, just because it is my choice doesnt change the fact that this judicial system is entirely fucked up. I wont worship a God with such a bad judicial system.
2019-03-19 07:02
I don't understand how him knowing what decisions you will make is a bad judicial system. Just because the government knows you're gonna break the law doesn't mean you didn't break the law.
2019-03-19 07:04
Except that its not that simple, the bible explicitly says that everything that was is and will happen is according to his purpose - which strips you away of your freedom. I am accountable for my actions but the actions I did were Gods plan all along, its like playing in an opera as a dumb mule. See #31
2019-03-19 07:08
John 1:7 kjv "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe." If God's plan is for only some to believe, why would Jesus be a light that through him ALL men might believe?
2019-03-19 07:22
He is sovereign over what appears the most random acts in the world. Proverbs 16:33 says, “The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord.” In modern language we would say, “The dice are rolled on the table and every play is decided by God.” There are no events so small that he does not rule for his purposes. “Are not two sparrows sold for a penny?” Jesus said, “And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But even the hairs of your head are all numbered” (Matthew 10:29–30). Every role of the dice in Las Vegas, every tiny bird that falls dead in the thousand forests — all of this is God’s command. Quote on God’s sovereignty
2019-03-19 07:07
If you just post the scripture itself it would be difficult to extrapolate that to mean that to mean there is no free will. Proverbs 16 is about following the path God has set out for us (meaning following his laws). For matthew 10 it's not related to even God's knowledge, let alone "all powerful sovereignty" if you read the whole chapter. The commentary is clearly calvinist biased you can tell just from them using the words "God's sovereignty" which isn't even in the kjv. Here's the verses by themselves without the commentary: proverbs 16:33 kjv: "The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the Lord." matthew 10:29-30 kjv: "29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered."
2019-03-19 07:18
I prefer the term proper exegesis than Calvinism. Just because its commonly talked around the Reformed circle doesnt invalidate it - Gods sovereignty is a Fact and a strongly established nature of God woven in hundreds of verses within the Scripture, you simply just cant deny this just necause its “biased to Calvinism”.
2019-03-19 07:21
No it is not, it's not found explicitly anywhere in the bible which is why people need "exegesis" to come up with these teachings since there's no clear scripture that says it itself. Exegesis is another word not found in the bible, by the way, so not sure how that would be the "proper term".
2019-03-19 07:24
Ah that makes more sense. I take points from Armenienism and Calvinism in my point of view. When I look through the lens of full Calvinism, I can’t help myself questioning if God is good and loving if he orchestrated everything. Free will doesn’t exist in a Calvinistic approach.
2019-03-19 09:27
+1
2019-03-19 06:32
you need jesus
2019-03-19 06:17
0/8 nt baptist
2019-03-19 06:18
tbh im fr, i think you mind set will change once you give the lord a chance
2019-03-19 06:19
?? I was a Charismatic then turned to Reformed Christian for ovvious reasons. I gave and “opened” my heart to Jesus a long time ago until then..
2019-03-19 06:22
cya in hell
2019-03-19 06:23
i dont watch child porn sorry i cant come with u
2019-03-19 06:27
nt god fearing man
2019-03-19 06:30
So your problems with the God of the Bible comes down to: you believe free will and God being omnipotent are mutually exclusive, and you find the existence of the book of life "unfair". I don't remember the Bible every saying God is omnipotent actually, there are some things God cannot do (for example, he cannot lie). Personally I don't see how I can't have free will and make my own decisions while God is still powerful- but it's not really an important Christian doctrine, calvinists exist, although your second issue sort of stems from presuming predestination. Hell is an interesting idea, it's actually not used that much in the Bible and the fiery eternal punishment was mostly propagated by the catholic church into scaring people to follow them rather than from scripture itself. There's also a couple different things people refer to as "hell". From Greek there's "hades", where unsaved people who have rejected Christ's gift go, presumably in the center of the Earth. There's also a second compartment called paradise. Basically it's a land of the dead, there's not really "punishment" here. The eternal lake of fire that you're probably thinking of is gehenna, and people are only cast there after judgement in the end times. The best way to describe hell is being "without god", which is what living with sin is as well, disobeying God's law causes seperation from him. If you choose to reject God's free gift then there's nothing he can really do it's your choice, but if you want eternal life it's available for free.
2019-03-19 06:52
>then theres nothing he can really do its your choice You just invalidated your whole argument. See #31
2019-03-19 07:14
Did you read my post at all? I said that it was based on predestination and I described it from a non-calvinist perspective.
2019-03-19 07:19
Salvation and the gospel is indeed rooted in predestination. As early as in the book of Genesis.
2019-03-19 07:22
wrong
2019-03-19 07:25
You literally just said that tje bible doesnt say anything about God being omnipotent - what bible are you reading? If theres anything the bible wants us to tell its that God is sovereign and all powerful.
2019-03-19 07:27
King James Version
2019-03-19 07:28
>muh kjv untainted translation You gotta have to be a special nut to be this close minded.
2019-03-19 07:35
Using a translation based on the majority texts is "close minded"?
2019-03-19 07:36
Also, your argument was only like 2 sentenced worth and you proceed to describe the historical context and origins of hell and its derived form in Christianity for the rest of your wall of text.
2019-03-19 07:26
It wasn't an argument, I was just explaining hell. What's there to argue, I just explained the points from your original post.
2019-03-19 07:26
And? Whats your argument? You didnt lay down a single point to add content to the current topic.
2019-03-19 07:28
I talked about the scriptural nature of hell and that you put some bias that makes it seem more "unfair". Of course it seems unfair when you believe God has decided who is the elect.
2019-03-19 07:33
The point is that mankind is supposed to suffer in an eternal separation with God and that he will be punished for the things God has planned for man to do, except that man is accountable for his choices(talk about epic wtf moments). If you cant accept Gods sovereignty then you dont understand jackshit about Christianity.
2019-03-19 07:33
Why do you keep saying God's sovereignty when that's not in the Bible? Why is it not in the Bible if it's such a core tenet of Christianity like you claim? If you read scripture instead of commentaries you wouldn't come up with this stuff.
2019-03-19 07:35
Because sovereignty is a word that describes who God is according to Him. Just necause the word sovereignty literally doesnt exist in the bible doesnt negate the fact that GOd is indeed sovereign. Thanks for making me laugh tho, you are literally the only person I know who rejects the idea of God being sovereign just because thr word is nowhere to be found in the bible. Lmfao
2019-03-19 07:39
It's so important that it's not stated anywhere :D The majority of Christians don't believe in predestination
2019-03-19 07:42
Yes and majority of the Christians only knows John 3:16. Speaks about the volume and depth of theology the Church teaches. Modern Christianity is all about prosperity and feel good go to heaven doctrine that they forget the meat of the Gospel.
2019-03-19 07:48
In the west sure most modern churches are just parties, but even among actual Christians most don't believe calvinism because it's stupid for the reasons you yourself laid out.
2019-03-19 07:50
Gods sovereignty and like topics were a common knowledge amongst Christians in post Reformation times. Only because of modernisation and the steady downfall of churches integrity that it slowly faded with time. Church started caring more about numbers and not hurting peoples feelings. Much can be drawn from the old preachers than the current we have. Dont be one of them and go back to the truth.
2019-03-19 08:04
It was never widely accepted, because it is not supported by scripture at all. I'm not interested in traditions of men.
2019-03-19 08:10
Lmfao ok im done talking to you. You dont even know your roots. Shame on me for not realizing ure a 12 y.o kid that only listens to his One True Charidmatic Pastor
2019-03-19 08:12
What are my roots?
2019-03-19 08:15
Nothing is true; everything is permitted. To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic. Might be a game quote. But it is true. Every actions that we do will have a possible outcome. This is the free will God gave us. To keep the outcome balance your actions should be rewarded or punished. It is the way we see through our heart and achieve what we desire. For one to be happy he can make others happy or he can make others cry. If everyone is saint in the world life will be boring. If everyone is rapist and murderers humanity will be lost. Every religion is trying to teach the same. I am not questioning your faith. As one christian to other christian I am asking one question. Why the great Pope living in a place like palace without doing any work and the other hand a hard working normal christian living homeless. Is that the way of Christianity? I may have little faith in god still, But I lost faith in the system.
2019-03-19 07:25
Free will is not as all Simple as you think.
2019-03-19 07:31
#60
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France mat660 
Flag checkout
2019-03-19 08:14
#64
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Ukraine EarthAintFlat 
How would you define "free will"? We are not ultimately self-determining no matter If religious or not. We can't choose many things nor can we run from our responsibilities. If you break the rules other people will most likely decide your faith be they authorities, family or divine creatures. You may have meant "Freedom", as It's different from "free will". The problem is there is no generally accepted definition of either “freedom” or "free will". The point is "free will" isn't when you can do whatever you want and get away with it. Do you get away when you commit a crime? No, authorities will interfere and punish you. The same goes with Christianity. The only difference is religion gives you the entire life on Earth and do not interfere during your life, so you get your "verdict" at the end of the road; that's what free will is according to Bible's definition. Free will cannot exist without responsibilities. To put it simply, you fuck up big times - you get the outcome you deserve. These are the consequences for taking advantage of free will.
2019-03-19 09:57
#65
Dosia | 
World zeree 
Kill all believers!
2019-03-19 09:59
#66
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Denmark Ulver 
Odin is the only true god.
2019-03-19 10:02
#67
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Germany mrrwombat 
All religions will die out slowly. More and more young people don´t believe in a (or multiple) god and that´s a good thing.
2019-03-19 10:06
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