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Who beats Astralis?
NAF | 
North America northamerican 
I think this information is interesting to look at: Since the faceit major, these teams have beaten astralis in a match: NiP NaVi FaZe MIBR Liquid The following teams have won a map in a losing bo3/5 against Astralis: Liquid Renegades NaVi Liquid (again) Hellraisers NiP fnatic MIBR Who do you think can rise up and beat Astralis consistently?
2019-03-25 18:33
Currently only Liquid and Navi.
2019-03-25 18:37
#2
 | 
Finland trashsports 
Liquid - yes NaVi - no
2019-03-25 18:38
They were the only team that consistently gave astralis a struggle. Even though they look very shake and deflated at the moment.
2019-03-25 18:40
#27
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Finland trashsports 
Dude... NaVi not even close to Astralis. Liquid is the nearest team to them
2019-03-25 18:45
#39
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Germany polycarp 
yes, liquid is indeed the closest. but navis playstyle can counter astralis while liquid is more of a weeker copy that can come close but will probably never surpass them. navi will never be able to be as consistent or dominant, but their unique playstyle gives them the biggest chance against astralis atm.
2019-03-25 18:50
#72
 | 
United States Jammin800k 
Question isnt about what team can upset but what team can surpass. Liquid can continue improving fundamentals and beat Astralis and have a much more direct path to doing so than Navi who have to completely rely on s1mple and elec playing world class.
2019-03-25 22:03
#88
 | 
Germany polycarp 
no, i really disagree. imo the way to beat astralis is not copying them. obviously you should copy being that professional and their approach in general, but you wont surpass them copying their playstyle because the copy never beats the original. also i think you misunderstood what i said about navi. first of all this "they rely on individiuals" has to stop because every team relies on players getting the frags they are supposed to get. also they are not just "upsetting", their playstyle counters astralis´. the thing with this is, that what makes them able to beat astralis (creating chaotic situations and benefit from them), also makes them fail to do it consistently. this still doesnt change the fact, that navi is indeed able to beat astralis.
2019-03-25 22:41
#101
 | 
United States Jammin800k 
That's not true the copy can surpass through hard work and dedication and continuing to find things out about the game that the original doesn't know. As well as improving their team cohesion and comms, just because they have a similar style doesnt mean they cant surpass. And based on head to head results and placements they are the closest team by far. Also if you cant see that navi rely on s1mple and electronic more than any other top 10 team relies on 2 players you're delusional.
2019-03-25 23:17
#106
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Germany polycarp 
- find things the original doesnt know - well, if so you are not really a copy anymore. also no one doubted they are the closest to astralis atm. however they dont look like they will beat them anytime soon. navi can beat them now - they just wont do it consistently.
2019-03-25 23:17
#117
 | 
United States Jammin800k 
So you think liquid do LITERALLY everything the same as Astralis and dont have a different playstyle at all? Liquid do not attempt to be as utility focused as Astralis, they also trust their aim a lot more and do 2 man pushes a ton on CT side. And have a lot more aggression mixed into their play. It's not like they're just 5 worse versions of Astralis, they do have strengths that Astralis dont have. They arguably have more mechanical skill. I could go on. Point being the teams arent copies they just have similar approaches and that approach currently (as seen by ence also adapting to it) seems to be the best approach we currently have. What Astralis really has over liquid is a top 3 AWPer and the best coach/IGL duo in the game. Liquid can beat Astralis in other ways and has maps that they are currently as good as Astralis on. The thread isnt about anytime soon and liquids process and approach to the game is better than anyone else's besides Astralis. Also Navi is a complete unknown, Zeus literally said he was retiring this year. We have no idea what the team will look lik after that and this navi certainly cant beat Astralis regularly. The last time that that "chaos and randmoness" ideology worked was over 7 months ago at ESL Cologne, Astralis have grown since then and Navi dont look much better, electronic isnt even close to the same form. Not to mention Zeus had to drop a 30 bomb for that to happen.
2019-03-25 23:25
#124
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Germany polycarp 
dude, please. just try to understand what im saying. look at the specific comment i replied to first. i just wanted to say that atm navi can beat astralis while liquid cant (which has to do with trying to copy them too much in that specific matchup imo). thats all.
2019-03-25 23:31
Well.... just recently Liquid actually DID beat Astralis. So saying they can't, seems a little bit..... you know... Beating them consistently is a whole different beast, of course. But also here Liquid seems like the strongest contender- by far.
2019-03-26 12:41
#174
 | 
Germany polycarp 
well, seemingly noone respects the results of ibpmasters (for good reasons i would say). first, just because of all the chaos and so on, but mostly because of it being the first event after the break and a "warmup-tournament" before the major. also north bodied astralis before the london major and it showed to be a anomaly that occured due to said circumstances.
2019-03-26 13:59
Make all the excuses you want. Arguing that Liquid can't beat Astralis, while they just DID, is flat out stupid. :)
2019-03-26 18:55
#195
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Germany polycarp 
being able to beat someone atm (which they werent able to at the recent tournament) and having beaten someone two months ago is hardly the same thing.
2019-03-26 19:42
Oh, come on man... If you really want to argue that way around, you could as well say that "being able to beat someone atm is hardly the same thing as actually having done so in the latest tournament". But seriously..... come on....
2019-03-27 02:42
#207
 | 
Germany polycarp 
i was just replying to one comment saying navi is far away and liquid is so close and i just wanted to point out, how navi has the potential to beat astralis in a tournament here or there without ever surpassing them because their playstyle allows it, while i dont believe liquid is able to do so YET for the same reason. if you take ibp into consideration, then fine, they can. i dont do it because it was two months ago and indeed more of a preparation tournament rather than serious competition. also liquid actually got slaughtered by astralis very recently. i understand what you mean and i accept, that we have different opinions and only the future will tell. also i dont understand why you act like ibp was "recent" while it actually wasnt. two months is actually a lot of time.
2019-03-27 13:31
I too respect we have a difference of opinion..! First off Astralis only play tournaments to win. I'm an Astralis fan and they have stated that very clearly. Of course I agree that the ibp tournament cannot be compared to bigger tournaments, but Liquid beat them fair and square. When was the last time NaVi came close to doing that? IMHO Liquid are just closer right now. BUT it's hard to say, since it's been 4 months since NaVi and Astralis played each other the last time. I guess only time will tell who will be the the first team to take them down.
2019-03-27 15:00
#225
 | 
Germany polycarp 
i never wanted to disagree with liquid being closer to astralis, i was just talking about a vague potential to beat them and wanted to point out, that navis playstyle could give them an edge - which doesnt mean they´ll ever win though. with ibp i dont know, for me its like a preseason tournament in football - you obviously try to win, but in the end it doesnt count. im also sure astralis was far away from playing to their full potential at that tournament due to said circumstances (for example lack of preparation for liquid because new roster, after the break even if you wanted to prepare you just couldnt). obviously we both dont know for sure, but i think the huge difference between astralis at the major + vs liquid at blast and at ibp could back my point up.
2019-03-27 16:17
Beat Astralis in tourny no one cared about btw.
2019-03-26 14:46
True - but that's beside the point.
2019-03-26 18:56
anyone can beat astralis then, they have lost matches in skirmish before. That tourny was just another skirmish for astralis lmao.
2019-03-26 19:04
Astralis only play tournaments to win. They made a very clear statement about that. Obviously it wasn't a high profile tournament, but calling it a skirmish for Astralis is a mis-statement.
2019-03-27 02:37
Initially every team went to that tourny to win but after what happened, they were there only to have fun and enjoy their stay. Even the casters said they could hardly consider that a "tournament".
2019-03-27 14:14
Of course it can't be compared to bigger tournaments. But still both Astralis and Liquid played to win and Liquid beat them fair and square.
2019-03-27 15:07
if you're not throwing, you usualy play to win, even in a skirmish. I play MM and faceit to win. How much effort I put into them is another story. It was easy to tell that Astralis werent putting as much effort in the ibp tournament, otherwise they would end up stomping just like they did in the last tourny.
2019-03-27 20:14
So true. Anyone who puts any value at all into the results at IBP should really stop commenting on cs.
2019-03-27 18:51
There's a difference from putting value to a tournament, to claiming the result doesn't exist.
2019-03-27 20:34
You are using this result to argue they can beat astralis in the FUTURE. Du sgu for blank mate, lad os holde her!
2019-03-27 20:35
And you are using NO reference to argue they have zero chance of beating them in the future.... Who is more blank, mate...?
2019-03-27 20:44
I was gonna say funny with the Google translate.... but it doesn't look like Google translate.... hmmm....
2019-03-27 20:48
Der ikke noget google translate involveret her, men din logik og evne til at argumenterer halter alvorligt. Du mener alle andre misforstår pointen, når det er dig, som ikke fatter, at den turnering INTET har at sige om nogens chancer for at gøre noget som helst. Tror lige du skal følge lidt mere med i skolen. Farvel!
2019-03-27 20:51
At du har behov for at tale ned til folk på den måde får dig desværre til at lyde både teenage-agtig og uintelligent. Turneringen var blot et eksempel på at der er forskellige typer turneringer med forskellig vægt og forskelligt fokus... og forskellige vindere. At du og et par andre stædigt bliver ved med at argumentere for at Liquid har 0% chance for at vinde - dvs. ALLE typer turneringer, lige fra ibp størrelse til major, fortæller mest om jeres forståelse af scenen. Hvis du har tænkt dig at argumentere videre for hvorfor du mener at Liqid har 0% chance for et win over Astralis, så drop venligst den teenage-agtige og nedladne jargon... er sgu blevet for gammel til den slags.
2019-03-28 03:01
Gad egentlig ikke fortsætte, når du fra starten har bevist hvor svagt begavet du er. Lad mig bare sige denne ene ting: Jeg har PÅ INTET TIDSPUNKT udtalt mig om liquids chancer. Her går du igen, helt galt og kan ikke fange pointen. IBP har intet at sige om, hvem der kan slå hvem - det er det ENESTE jeg har sagt. At du så, i din illusion og ignorante tilgang til en diskussion bliver ved med at sige, at jeg påstår liquid har 0 chancer, det må bare bevise at du har svært ved at læse eller er meget evnesvag. Prøv at læse korrespondancen igennem igen. Jeg forholder mig KUN til, at IBP er et lorte argument for at Liquid kan slå Astralis. På INTET tidspunkt siger jeg, at de ikke kan gøre det. Hvis du endelig vil vide det, så er jeg sikker på, at Liquid er tættest på astralis og har bedst chancer for at slå dem. Det er første gang jeg udtaler mig om deres chancer, prøv at forstå forskellen lille ven :)
2019-03-28 16:36
Har først lige læst resten af dit indlæg - behøvede ikke læse mere end 2 linjer første gang for at se, at din IQ formentlig ikke er højere end din alder. Du snakker om teenage agtig adfærd osv., men det er dig, som er så helt igennem elendig til at læse og argumentere, at du ikke fatter forskellen på at sige, at IBP ikke har nogen betydning og at sige at Liquid har 0 chance for at vinde over astralis. De to ting har intet med hinanden at gøre, det er du åbenbart bare for evnesvag teenager til at fatte. Hvis du RENT faktisk er mere end 15 år gammel, så er det utrolig sørgeligt, at din logik og evne til at argumentere er så underudviklet.
2019-03-28 16:46
Det er trist at du har så stort et behov for at nedgøre på det personlige plan og angribe både alder, intelligens osv. osv. - du skal vide, at dine reelle argumenter ifht. diskussionen drukner. Når nu du har så travlt med min alder og min intelligens, kan jeg fortælle at jeg er midt 40'erne, er CEO i et IT selskab som jeg tilfældigvis osse ejer. Derudover har jeg fulgt CS scenen tæt siden 1.3 - har bl.a. været til møder med Rfrsh osv. Jeg kan se på din måde at skrive på, at du er en del yngre end mig og det er helt ok - men det er din endeløse stime af personlige angreb ikke. Det er rigtigt, at du ikke har udtalt dig om Liquids chancer - jeg antog det (specielt da du ikke afkræftede det efter min kommentar #243), da det var hele emnet i denne undertråd. Hele min pointe var, at det er tåbeligt at påstå (og det er altså så ikke dig jeg taler om her), at Liquid IKKE KAN slå Astralis - specielt når der kan være alle mulige omstændigheder der spiller ind - det kan være alt fra sygdom, at en eller flere spillere bare har en dårlig dag - ELLER som det EKSEMPEL jeg nævnte: En ELENDIGT arrangeret turnering. Hvis du ikke kan koble de to ting, kan jeg ikke gøre så meget ved det.
2019-03-28 22:14
"Hvis du ikke kan koble de to ting, kan jeg ikke gøre så meget ved det." Denne del (og meget andet) er virkelig ironisk og komisk! Hele diskussionen opstod fordi du ikke kunne adskille værdien af et lan resultat med liquids overordnede chancer for at gøre noget i fremtiden. Du har ret, at jeg er yngre end dig, og jeg er lykkelig for, at jeg ikke skal sidde som 40-årig og være ude af stand til at indgå i en simpel diskussion, fordi jeg er så elendig til at argumentere og opfinder en masse sammenhænge og citater, som kun foregår i min fantasi. Hvis resten af dine fantasier skulle nærme sig virkeligheden, så antager jeg at du er "CEO" i dit eget, meget lille, ubetydelige foretagende. Nu må det være nok.
2019-03-28 22:24
"Hele diskussionen opstod fordi du ikke kunne adskille værdien af et lan resultat med liquids overordnede chancer for at gøre noget i fremtiden." Øh - nej...! Hvis det er det du har tolket ud af det jeg har skrevet, kan jeg godt forstå, at du er uenig. Men det er bestemt ikke min holdning og heller ikke det jeg har skrevet. Der var en der påstod at "Liquid ikke kan slå Astralis". Altså 0% chance. Det synes jeg i sig selv er en tåbelig påstand. Jeg brugte IBP som et skræk-eksempel på, at der kan være alle mulige omstændigheder der spiller ind. Og at Liquid under visse omstændigheder godt kan slå Astralis. Men jeg gider ikke høre på dine personlige angreb længere. Så ja - nu må det være nok. God aften.
2019-03-28 22:44
That isnt beside the point. When arguing whether or not they lost a game - true, they did. But we are aguing who has the best chance to surpass them and beat them regularly Mentioning IBP as an argument is asenine.
2019-03-27 18:50
You're missing the point in the context. We were having a '"side-discussion" here. A guy claimed that NaVi can beat Astralis and Liquid can't - and I was pointing out that it was dumb claim to make, since they actually beat them recently. Simple as that. And of course they can do it again if they play to their best and Astralis don't. The chance of surpassing them is an entirely different matter. I still believe that Liquid is the closest contender by far.
2019-03-27 20:31
Your statement and claim is more dumb, since he was talking about being ABLE to - as in can do it again. Winning the worst, most disorganized tournament in 4+ years says NOTHING about this. Hope you get the point at some point ;)
2019-03-27 20:34
No need to be patronising. So are you actually claiming that Liquid can't beat Astralis.... not even if Astralis don't play to their best and Liquid is on their A-game. Not even 1/5, 1/10 or even a 1/50 chance. If you claim that Liquid has 0/0 chance of beating Astralis, it says more about you CS knowledge. Hope you get the point at some point ;)
2019-03-27 20:41
"So are you actually claiming that Liquid can't beat Astralis" No i never claimed this, you illiterate retard. No wonder its impossible to have a discussion with you when you apparently can't read and just make up shit.
2019-03-28 16:38
#227
 | 
United States Jammin800k 
But Liquid is and has been closer to beating Astralis than any other team despite if their styles are similar or not.
2019-03-27 16:19
#229
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Germany polycarp 
i never denied that. although im not so sure about it because actually any difference between navi and liquid is much smaller than the difference between astralis and any team. (for example liquid beat navi in groups at the major, but navi got further or the results navi-astralis at blast lisbon and astralis-liquid at sao paolo are basically the same). also the fact the navi isnt able to beat liquid has nothing to do with their relation to astralis.
2019-03-27 16:27
#231
 | 
United States Jammin800k 
The thing about that is that to beat Astralis you have to actually face Astralis. Liquid have consistently beat all the contenders besides ence and put up the best results vs Astralis so therefore they are the closest team to beating Astralis. And your idea of Navi being able to create chaos and win is pure speculation, Astralis may very well have solid counters for those ideas 7 months later.
2019-03-27 16:30
didnt read. tldr. dont bomb me or get my oil
2019-03-28 03:07
#257
 | 
United States Jammin800k 
Useless comment
2019-03-28 14:46
#210
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India AMKW 
Copy wtf You got no ideas so copy them , nice Copying is the worst crime ever
2019-03-27 13:38
#226
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United States Jammin800k 
Whatever that means lol
2019-03-27 16:19
#116
 | 
Germany Fabbsen 
I feel like everytime the map is Overpass between them, NaVi has a good chance. On every other map it really depends on how good the teams are on today for NaVi to beat them.
2019-03-25 23:23
#131
 | 
Germany polycarp 
i wouldnt say its overpass, it was just navi being pretty good on it at that time while astralis had a weaker phase on it. in general there really is no chance for any team to beat astralis because their normal level is other teams perfect level. but if its their day, navis playstyle makes things very difficult for astralis.
2019-03-25 23:37
#132
 | 
Germany Fabbsen 
I feel like Overpass suits NaVi perfectly against Astralis as Astralis tend to struggle on it with their new LU in comparsion to other maps. And NaVi beat them quite often on it the last year.
2019-03-25 23:39
#139
 | 
Germany polycarp 
i agree, but i dont know anymore as navi barely played ovp this year (they also never picked it) while gla1ve said they put a lot of work into it and their results were quite good.
2019-03-26 00:02
True. I think Astralis stepped up their game on Overpass lately.
2019-03-26 12:43
#209
 | 
India AMKW 
+1
2019-03-27 13:36
But if they remove Zeus and Edward probably yes
2019-03-25 18:40
+1
2019-03-25 18:48
+1
2019-03-25 19:13
#222
gla1ve | 
Europe catre 
Zeus is hard position to find the guys can lead the team like hime, meanwhile i didn't know any one can replace Edward, Hobbit and Adren have a team now, maybe some youngster from Avangar?
2019-03-27 14:51
Liquid - no NaVi - no FaZe with s1mple - maybe when device gets too sick and dies people will beat them
2019-03-25 18:41
this liquid team is only 3 months old, and they have achieved so much in such little time. We need to give them more time, time to adapt to new roles, time to adapt to new coach, and also adreN has never coached before so they need to give him more time too. By next major, i am confident they can bring home another major.
2019-03-25 18:48
they never won a major? wtf regardless NAF has been performing worse since stewie joined and that is not a good sign
2019-03-25 18:49
what i meant to say was NA will have 2 majors when they win. Its only been 3 moths, are you suggesting they make another roster change? Like i said they need more time to adjust to new roles and new teammates.
2019-03-25 18:55
we literally say that about every team but how long do we have to give them before they are supposed to do something notable?
2019-03-25 18:59
#73
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United States Jammin800k 
I guess you and I have different definitions of notable. Taking a map off Astralis is "notable" rn. Theres like 3 teams in the world I would consider capable of doing that. Well 2 teams and 2 players.
2019-03-25 22:05
getting dominated in 2 maps by ENCE as a favorite to make the finals is notable
2019-03-25 23:05
#102
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United States Jammin800k 
Agree and ence are one of those 3 teams. Also I think that result said a lot more about ence than liquid.
2019-03-25 23:13
#50
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United States Mal14 
NAF had a 1.23 rating and MVP in the first tournament since picking up Stewie, they just need some more time.
2019-03-25 18:59
first off that tournament was shit but yeah he performed well however, keep in mind that they NEED naf to perform up to that level to win... he hasn't been
2019-03-25 19:00
#55
 | 
United States Mal14 
They have barely played any matches, can't expect them to beat the best team in the world when they don't even know what their map pool is yet.
2019-03-25 19:03
it doesn't take more than 90 days of cs every day to get strats down imo
2019-03-25 19:05
#57
 | 
United States Mal14 
lol, you think the knowing strats is all they need to perform at the highest level? It takes months of playing together to be perfectly cohesive as you have to be to beat Astralis.
2019-03-25 19:07
Astralis was performing at this level 3 months in
2019-03-25 22:00
#74
 | 
United States Jammin800k 
And Astralis core had been together for 3 years. Gla1ve also became the best IGL to ever touch CS:GO and they have the best coach, not every story is going to be the same.
2019-03-25 22:06
And the core of liquid have been together for a long damn time... astralis is clearly levels ahead of everyone else but it's clear that liquid isn't on pace to catch up anytime
2019-03-25 23:07
#103
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United States Jammin800k 
When did I say they were close? They're close than any other team though and that's indisputable.
2019-03-25 23:14
They're the team that faces them the most but they have lost every single time with the exception of a shitty tournament which even Liquid admitted. They are the closest team to beating them, aside from MSL's North back in the day PepeHands
2019-03-25 23:25
#123
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United States Jammin800k 
-MSLs north no longer exists - Astralis doesnt study north nearly as much as they study liquid -liquid is still the #1 contender
2019-03-25 23:29
-MSLa north no longer exists PepeHands
2019-03-25 23:30
#134
 | 
United States Jammin800k 
4Head
2019-03-25 23:42
u edited ur post on me now I look dumb :(
2019-03-26 04:13
#152
 | 
United States Jammin800k 
4Head
2019-03-26 04:14
#136
 | 
United States Mal14 
They are definitely on pace, look at their last 7 matches vs Astralis against their previous matchups with Taco. Liquid have won 3/7 last maps and lost one 16-13. Before that with Taco, they lost 18 OF THE LAST 20 maps with their only wins being OT on Inferno and a surprise pick on train that was a fluke win tbh. They literally have as many wins against Astralis in the past 3 months with Stewie as they did from April-December last year. They are on a much better pace now than last year with the old lineup.
2019-03-25 23:49
Don't even mention IBP masters that was a joke(according to literally everyone) and they beat ast on one map and proceeded to get fucked.
2019-03-26 04:14
#185
 | 
United States Mal14 
If you can't see that this team is already on a better track to beat Astralis than they were at any point last year, then there is no point in arguing. Your mind is already made up, even when the numbers right in front of you prove you are wrong.
2019-03-26 14:49
no point arguing with these new fag silver kids, they have no idea what the fuck team chemistry, timing and solid teamwork is. They forget or have no clue that even Astralis was choking for years, and even after they added magisk they went out group stages first major they played together. If after that major Astralis decided to make a roster change, we would never see the dominant Astralis we see today. Leave these dumb kids be.
2019-03-25 22:01
no point arguing with these new fag silver kids, they have no idea what the fuck team chemistry, timing and solid teamwork is. They forget or have no clue that even Astralis was choking for years, and even after they added magisk they went out group stages first major they played together. If after that major Astralis decided to make a roster change, we would never see the dominant Astralis we see today. Leave these dumb kids be.
2019-03-25 23:07
tnx for proving my point child.
2019-03-26 01:18
Astralis have dominated since magisk joined from day 1 only notable losses are the BO5 in Sydney(all close maps) 0-3 to FaZe and 2 BO3 losses to North at DH Masters
2019-03-26 04:17
You could say the same thing about liquid. Since stewie joined won the first tournament defeating Astralis, no matter how shitty the tournament a win is a win, and both teams faced same conditions. made legends stage at major. Next tournament they faced dominated mibr, faze, NIP all 3 teams in top 10, and tied with Ence to face the most dominant team in recent history, Astralis. Its only been 3 events since stewie joined, and they are still holding on to #2, wtf more do you want from them?
2019-03-26 04:37
For them to be better than their old roster... still waiting to see it
2019-03-26 16:29
like i keep saying, its only been 3 months, they are not going to be better than their old roster in 3 events, got to give them some time.
2019-03-26 20:53
Didn't they lose 2-0 vs navi 1 time in 2018? (I'm asking a serious question, got a sickness so my memory is playing tricks on me :/)
2019-03-26 14:05
2019-03-26 16:30
Stew is a team killer
2019-03-25 19:13
#75
 | 
United States Jammin800k 
-1
2019-03-25 22:07
+1
2019-03-25 23:25
#212
 | 
India AMKW 
They achieved "so much" nice they are the loosers of iem Katowice 2019 0/8
2019-03-27 13:39
HAha stfu no scener, i didn't ask for your input.
2019-03-27 21:15
#253
 | 
India AMKW 
haha stop it nolifer Thread is for commenting I don't need any permission to express my words
2019-03-28 04:51
Just take a look at stats Navi Astralis matchup something around 8-10 per maps Liquid Astralis around 8 30 So what are you talking about?
2019-03-25 22:35
#164
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Finland trashsports 
It means that Liquid played more games with Astralis
2019-03-26 07:28
Lul man I loled It means that Liquid suck too much
2019-03-26 08:27
#128
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France Aalkhaan 
+1
2019-03-25 23:32
-navi or simple ?
2019-03-26 14:06
#177
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Finland trashsports 
NaVi and s1mple
2019-03-26 14:36
+1
2019-03-28 03:11
#26
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Ukraine sparkie29 
+1
2019-03-25 18:45
flair checks out
2019-03-25 19:01
G2 , call it a bait or whatever , they can.
2019-03-26 14:40
#182
 | 
Germany AdiZen 
both not they had more than enough chances to prove that they can beat astralis and all the time they failed. Give other teams more chances and they will show you how good they are.
2019-03-26 14:44
only because liquid won a bo3 final against abusetralis axaxaxaxaaa 😎
2019-03-27 21:17
give ENCE time and there will be a good chance for them to beat Astralis.
2019-03-25 18:40
give ence sunny and they might win a map off them in a bo3
2019-03-25 18:50
#65
 | 
Finland Faifainei 
give ence sunny and they might drop out of their current form back to solid tier 2 team. Sunny wasnt that good at the end before they benched him.
2019-03-25 19:17
it's a risk worth taking if they can't perform up to par in the events to come
2019-03-25 22:03
Up to par? They were tier 2-3 not so long ago.. Your expectations are ridiculous comparing to what ENCE is actually accomplishing in the bigger picture.
2019-03-25 22:28
ENCE should aim to be tier 1. They have performed at a tier 1 level at ONE tournament. We will see how they do in the tournaments to come.
2019-03-25 23:09
They did good in blast too. Only losing to astralis in a narrow 16-14 and tie with liquid. I think if the format in blast was a little better they would make finals.
2019-03-27 16:24
#83
 | 
Finland Faifainei 
up to par against astralis is pretty high bar to put your goal to, they just have made their breakthrough to the very top teams.
2019-03-25 22:30
Not what I'm saying. I'm arguing that ENCE won't do what they did at the major at any other tournament.
2019-03-25 23:09
#112
EliGE | 
United States mehrfth 
this player wasn’t that good 2 years ago so he won’t be good now even though he was a top 20 player the past 2 years okokok
2019-03-25 23:21
#5
 | 
Australia Australis 
2019-03-25 18:40
they literally did and it failed omega
2019-03-25 18:41
#19
 | 
Australia Australis 
if not them, maybe VP from 2014?
2019-03-25 18:43
b r u h
2019-03-25 18:43
Not even the old legends will be able to beat this GOAT team nt
2019-03-25 22:38
ence
2019-03-25 18:40
+suNny
2019-03-25 18:43
#173
 | 
Europe cArn5 
No
2019-03-26 12:45
Lol they just got 2-0'd by Astralis in dominant fashion wym
2019-03-26 16:27
#197
 | 
Finland JHdash77 
I don't get everyone wanting sunny to join in, any roster change would be a downgrade right now IMO
2019-03-26 19:51
maybe, eventually they'll pick him up
2019-03-26 21:57
Nip didn't beat astralis in bo3 and will not beat with this line up. Faze/Mibr wins at iem chicago/ecs were not important as they choked later. Navi will not beat astralis in bo3 because they have no map pool.Astralis easily wins:Nuke,Inferno,Dust2,Cache. Only liquid can beat them atm but they need to play super well.
2019-03-25 18:40
16-2 overpass,16-8 inferno hello from past
2019-03-25 18:41
Astralis has really improved on overpass and liquid got tilted after inferno. But they're the only team that can fight very well against astralis.
2019-03-25 18:45
#17
 | 
United States kdog 
it said won a map in a bo3
2019-03-25 18:42
Astralis cant beat Navi ez on inferno and dust2, actually Navi beat Astralis on this maps in 2018
2019-03-25 22:36
They have beaten them easy many times.Look at face it major or dreamhack masters. Navi didn't beat astralis single time on dust2 on lan.One time at inferno when zeus had 30 frags so it was fluke.
2019-03-26 06:12
Navi beat them on overpass many times + almost every game on inferno ends up with 16-12 score, 2 times 16-14
2019-03-26 06:18
Zeus is gambling every time when they play inferno.Astralis overpass in 2018 was actually their worst map besides cache.
2019-03-26 06:24
They beat them bcs navi go crazy in mappicks like including Nuke or Cache or picking random pretty onesided Dust2. If they will play default maps for Navi like Train,Mirage,Overpass,Inferno + current established dust2 they have a chance.
2019-03-26 06:44
Gambling is not good, game vs liquid on mirage shows it. They could won this map but do some stupid rotation which led to another useless force-force- buy without nades.
2019-03-26 06:47
FaZe if they can get an ACTUAL GOOD IGL.
2019-03-25 18:40
good igl list: gla1ve
2019-03-25 18:42
there's gob b and chrisJ.. mouz has 2 igl why... they can get chrisJ IMO. It doesnt need to be a fragger but someone with ACTUAL GOOD STRATS not loose style like karrign
2019-03-25 18:46
pronax hehe
2019-03-25 18:51
#104
 | 
Other notAbait 
i see a world that he returns and fnatic era 2.0 starts.
2019-03-25 23:15
#76
 | 
United States Jammin800k 
Chrisj is one of the loosest IGLs in the scene, wtf are you on about?
2019-03-25 22:08
But glaive can frag also? Not many IGLs around who can do that.
2019-03-26 07:34
#90
 | 
Poland perun2033 
toao is free
2019-03-25 22:42
no thanks
2019-03-25 23:07
#9
REZ | 
United States bunnery5 
NiP gonna have a good tournament, beat them in a BO3 sometime in their life, then go back to losing tier 6 cs
2019-03-25 18:40
yes
2019-03-25 18:42
#52
Friis | 
Denmark baitzera 
It's called NiP magic, and only exists in fairy tales now :)
2019-03-25 19:00
#13
 | 
Brazil jmarcelo 
-Liquid honestly has a very good shot at beating Astralis; just give them some time and I think they can do it. -Renegades might have had a bit of luck in the major, but we'll see how they do in the starladder tournament this week. -NaVi has to have every single one of their players playing at the best possible level that they can, and honestly they aren't very good with that, but they can beat Astralis for sure, just not consistently. -MIBR are very "idk" at the moment lol. They did good at the major, but they lost to Windigo at WESG and went 0-5 at Blast SP, so I dont think they have any chance now, but if they get their shit together, they can definetly do it. idk tho, might be the fan in me talking lmao -As for fnatic, nip, hr, mous, and some other teams; I do think they can do it, it's just a matter of time and how much effort those teams put into learning Astralis' strats and beating hem at it. Just like every other team, Astralis has a breaking point, and one day they'll reach it and another team is going to be number one.
2019-03-25 18:41
Liquid won't do it, maybe beat them in like 1 bo3 and get pounded from there on out RNG won't ever do it unless all bo1 tournament NaVi won't since they're too reliant on s1mple and electronic has been underperforming MiBr is mouz v2 when they -styko +styko and won't do anything aside from farming dh opens fnatic would be able to do it but they prob lost all their confidence recently nip might do it for one tourney then suck again b/c that's how nip works HR OMEGA mouz maybe if karrigan can get players to shine but won't happen anytime soon FaZe +s1mple and +some upcoming igl maybe
2019-03-25 18:48
#45
 | 
Brazil jmarcelo 
Liquid have played only a few tournaments so far, I think they still can get a lot better. U r probably right about mibr. I dont think the team will accomplish much, but just like liquid, i think they can get a lot better.
2019-03-25 18:53
if faze had a decent igl they wouldn't even need s1mple
2019-03-25 23:22
They had karrigan- probably the best igl they could have for an international roster I hate to say this but the only real option right now is MSL. I don't think he's some mastermind, but he's proven he can beat Astralis SEVERAL times. Also, there's a lack of IGL's and he is not on a team anymore since Rogue is withdrawing from CS.
2019-03-25 23:28
+1, They just need to find a dedicated Igl so niko can move on and be a star player like s1mple, NiKo's peak is higher but s1mple is more consistent
2019-03-25 23:31
#15
 | 
Sweden fxzo 
Liquid took a map on last matches, if they improve they can beat them
2019-03-25 18:42
ngl not gonna happen even tho I want them to +stewie was a bad move from the start
2019-03-25 18:43
#108
EliGE | 
United States mehrfth 
they’ve drastically improved since picking up Stewie what do you mean?
2019-03-25 23:19
Apparently losing in major quarter-finals means they're better LOL if you're talking about IBP masters that might have been the worst "tier 1/2" tournament we've ever had in terms of production quality and tournament quality. Even Liquid players called the tourney shit, and Liquid have done jack shit to prove that wasn't a fluke.
2019-03-25 23:27
#130
EliGE | 
United States mehrfth 
if you watched their matches at iBP, the major, and BLAST, you could clearly see the Major was an unbelievable underperformance.
2019-03-25 23:33
They went from 2nd place all the time to.... second place....
2019-03-26 04:13
NRG?
2019-03-25 18:43
if daps clicks mouse 1 and cerq gets out of slump
2019-03-25 18:44
#29
 | 
Chile strong221 
i think ence and liquid, maybe navi if edward and zeus are not in botmode
2019-03-25 18:47
#30
 | 
Pakistan XtraticX 
Ence will beat them. In bo1 99% chances
2019-03-25 18:47
Liquid have the talent to do it, but they're not ready yet. They will need to work a lot if they want to get to Astralis' level in terms of strats and teamwork. But individually they're probably not far behind Astralis. As for mibr, if will depend if cold and fer can get back to their level of 2017, fer had a great major but cold doesn't seem to care much about the game anymore. I could be wrong though. But adding TACO was certainly not the way to get back to the top, he was already the weak link when SK was dominating, and he still is. mibr with KSCERATO would probably be a contender for #1 if the stars get back to their old level, which they probably would with the added motivation after a roster change. Or FaZe if they get s1mple. TLDR -Liquid with a lot of work -mibr if they remove TACO -FaZe if they take s1mple
2019-03-25 18:47
#35
 | 
United States burzeus 
the first to beat astralis will be a top 30-40 team , for example rogue envy or someone in that tier, bookmark this , 100% guaranteed
2019-03-25 18:48
ex-rogue definitely will b/c msl
2019-03-25 18:50
Astralis can only be beat if a mm team rushes b every round on Dust II and Overpass
2019-03-25 18:54
#67
 | 
Kazakhstan tomik0 
Lul xddd
2019-03-25 19:19
Navi - on the day they can beat anyone but then they will attend the next event and look like dogshit. Liquid - great team but the big names go missing against Astralis Faze - no chance, they need a new roster asap. Get Niko off IGL role, you have Sunny and Flusha without teams who would improve them. MIBR - OMEGALUL nice try Ence - looking better and better but I just think they are benefiting from a weak scene right now. So many teams making braindead roster moves and teams like Ence and Renegades are taking advantage with solid placings.
2019-03-25 18:49
+100
2019-03-25 18:52
+1 FaZe can if they do -adren -olof +Sunny +flusha
2019-03-25 18:55
#77
 | 
Iceland fatboislim 
well in major ence did beat navi and liquid, and those teams didn't make roster changes in ages. and they haven't really been playing bad either. but faze and mibr definitely has some issues and sadly mouz disbanded, so i guess you're on to something. renegades on the otherhand hasn't really done much, so i dont see them taking advantage.
2019-03-25 22:15
If you watched major you already saw that Ence do not win, its Navi and Liquid lose to themselves (choked) Liquid bcs of stew2k idiots aggression Navi bcs they do not control their economy and do force-force-buy without nades instead of double eco
2019-03-25 22:40
+ it was 1v5, electronic underperforming, flamie too
2019-03-25 22:41
#41
ritch | 
United Kingdom Meffus 
VP
2019-03-25 18:51
navi over astralis bo3 at cologne was imo the most convincing ,and i think they can do it ,although i've been thinking it for awhile now liquid at ibp? lol mibr? lol faze? lol ence? nah
2019-03-25 18:52
magicsk just joined astralis before ESL one so............ yeah astralis choked them in faceit major final
2019-03-25 19:10
#133
 | 
Other notAbait 
IMO, Zeus is the only igl that can do it right now. They just need to be more consistent and replace edward (even flamie as he is the most inconsistent). Not good if elec is off because of his children.
2019-03-25 23:39
honestly i feel like electronic doesn't always play well in big games ,but maybe i'm making it up IMO if edward and zeus play at "acceptable" levels ,with the other 3 playing well ,it is good
2019-03-26 01:51
#148
 | 
Other notAbait 
My problem with keeping edward playing at "acceptable" levels is that not all the times zeus is capable of carrying his own weight, and edward is not that consistent at keeping that level either. Plus you can't really count on Zeus dropping 30 kills to beat astralis every time like on cologne. Navi is really top heavy, and flamie performance on big games is closer to edward than to s1mple/elec the majority of the time, so is not that good. And for what i've watched of zeus igling, his igling really shines when everyone is fired up (that must be why he is so good at using the starplayers) But when a piece is off...
2019-03-26 02:58
new flipside
2019-03-25 18:55
#58
 | 
Kazakhstan tomik0 
Ence I believe
2019-03-25 19:08
lol didnt win single map vs astralis not even TRAIN which they had 100% win rate (3 months) before major final
2019-03-25 19:15
#64
 | 
Kazakhstan tomik0 
Yea Yea I just wanna believe in beautifully of the game when underground fins can stop astralis era
2019-03-25 19:17
#143
 | 
Finland decem 
ence finally just grinded to tier 1, give them time, their odds aren't bad.
2019-03-26 02:07
#60
Friis | 
Denmark baitzera 
Kirsten Elsebeth Hansen, a hot young blonde and Magisks future girlfriend, will beat Astralis. Magisk will fall in love and spend all his time with her. She will suck all the energy and his motivation to play CSGO out of him. That will be the demise of Astralis, and it won't be the first or last time a girl has destroyed a Danish CS team. Otherwise, Liquid will have to step up and do it for her.
2019-03-25 19:13
VP, but gotta be +TaZ
2019-03-25 19:19
ence if they keep improving their game and players become even better, used to play against T1/big stages. mibr if they figure it out how to be good again or do some right roster change cuz fer and cold still great just fallen who need to evolve his strats imo. i dont see faze or navi beatin them. faze players are too washed up, only niko is a top player rn. navi with deadweight of zeus and edward wont do it too. liquid wont ever be better than them. their system is too much of a copy of other teams and glaive can read them with easy. its sorta robotic.
2019-03-25 19:23
#107
EliGE | 
United States mehrfth 
Imagine thinking ENCE can be better when they’ve never taken a map off Astralis, but Liquid can’t even though they take maps off of Astralis.
2019-03-25 23:18
#144
 | 
Finland decem 
Yeah, imagine that.
2019-03-26 02:09
dude, ppl imagined ENCE would 0-3 in major, or wouldnt become top5, they were a meme team. but imo they are full of talent. sergej for example is 17yo, he can only improve and same for aleksib always better. and allu in his days is a top5 awper. they are grinding, improving, becoming better and can 'surprise' in near future. this lineup/team is literally only one year old, we dont know whats their skill ceiling. liquid meanwhile consistently loses in finals, choke against good oponents and keep their level the same. and as I said, glaive knows how to play against their playstyle/system too well to lose and also liquid's map pool is pretty much the same of atraslis.
2019-03-26 04:12
Any team with MSL
2019-03-25 22:16
MOUZ KARRIGAN WILL GET HIS REVENGE
2019-03-25 22:19
NiP for sure
2019-03-25 22:20
#81
Skadoodle | 
United States TOCU 
Old SK Gaming, VP and fnatic
2019-03-25 22:21
#91
 | 
Brazil JuaozaoOFERA 
me and my friends for sure.
2019-03-25 22:44
The Italian Superteam MarkE Pope John XVIII Da Vinci Mussolini Julius Cesar
2019-03-25 23:01
#100
 | 
United States AproximateCS 
Sorry most of them are 30+ years old. Too old for pro players, RETIRE!
2019-03-25 23:10
#251
 | 
Brazil DaVicii 
MarkE is not bulgarian?
2019-03-28 03:09
Virtus pro soon
2019-03-25 23:09
#105
EliGE | 
United States mehrfth 
Liquid has a BO3 win over them this year. Liquid has a map advantage on Dust2 over them. I think by the end of this year Liquid will singlehandedly dethrone Astralis. If they can improve their map pool slightly and their consistency, they can be the best team in the world.
2019-03-25 23:17
#110
ile | 
Finland Vkims 
Liquid should try to beat ence before trying to dethrone astralis XD
2019-03-25 23:21
#115
EliGE | 
United States mehrfth 
ENCE feels like a team that’s gonna punch above their weight for a solid 2-3 months and then fade back into tier 3 obscurity. The players on that team are far too inexperienced to be able to psychologically deal with constant let down. They are gonna implode, just wait.
2019-03-25 23:23
#119
ile | 
Finland Vkims 
Those guys have so strong mentality, their apprpach to game is something I have never seen from any finnish team. They are not going anywhere from tier1 games
2019-03-25 23:25
#188
Twistzz | 
Sweden davv4 
Nah I think ENCE will stay top 5, being a young and hungry underdog you are accustomed to defeat. They also still have room for development.
2019-03-26 15:00
#187
Twistzz | 
Sweden davv4 
They really need new and deep tactics on mainly Inferno to really surprise Astralis. It's a matter of going to the drawing board and start practicing tactics because the individual play and aim is there, it's just about building something bigger around the team to magnify existing individual skills.
2019-03-26 14:53
#109
 | 
Russia slyfoxxdd 
NaVi Liquid only
2019-03-25 23:20
#111
ile | 
Finland Vkims 
And ence
2019-03-25 23:21
#137
 | 
Russia slyfoxxdd 
+1 probably ENCE they play very good last time
2019-03-25 23:50
FaZe with a right IGL... I loved the team with karrigan and xizt , highly doubt they would work now...
2019-03-25 23:22
#138
ile | 
Finland Vkims 
Sydney final never forget
2019-03-25 23:51
Windigo Diwingo Gowindi Wingodi Digowin Godiwin and Ofcourse My dick
2019-03-25 23:32
Not sure about consistently, but ence will beat them the next time they meet, which is a long time away, possibly dh Dallas or cologne
2019-03-25 23:32
#135
 | 
Russia QibyVGZEN 
forZe and Spirit, +Vega +Runtime.GG
2019-03-25 23:45
#142
 | 
Palestine Baitor69 
me
2019-03-26 01:58
#145
 | 
United States Jammin800k 
Ya know one thing that might beat Astralis is Astralis dipping in form for a little, it happens to every great, cant be like this forever. Eventually magisk wont hit every headshot, xyp wont win the most 1vxs, and device wont get multikills every other round, gla1ve will chill on the smokes too.
2019-03-26 02:13
#146
 | 
Italy bennyhana 
Yea that’s the only way they lose which is sad for other teams but impressive on its own
2019-03-26 02:30
#147
 | 
United States Jammin800k 
I mean other teams would still be improving at this time, its the same way any top team comes down. Same thing happened to Fnatic and SK and NiP. Other teams improve while you stagnate.
2019-03-26 02:43
#161
 | 
Italy bennyhana 
If astralis were to stagnate here they’d be #1 probably forever
2019-03-26 06:46
#163
 | 
United States Jammin800k 
Thats horribly false lmao. If they for a second think they can stop working and remain top 1 then... well they wouldnt be top 1. As soon as you get complacent you fail.
2019-03-26 06:48
#157
 | 
Germany Constikdw 
Faze with s1mple, Niko and a decent igl. Or navi mby if they keep s1mple and get Jame and Angel Liquid could do it as well. Maybe even Fnatic without Jw and xizt but with golden and Flusha
2019-03-26 06:16
#165
zonic | 
Denmark Hulvin 
Mous
2019-03-26 07:30
#166
 | 
Denmark Xipingu 
Right now, Liquid. In the future: Liquid, Navi, FaZe eventually, struggling to believe in MiBR but yeah
2019-03-26 07:33
faze, if they get an igl cuz they're the only team to beat astralis a lot of times if im not wrong
2019-03-26 07:36
#169
 | 
Finland pornokarhu 
EZ4ENCE
2019-03-26 07:36
MIBR, HOLLY FUCK NO i think Liquid, ENCE and FaZe
2019-03-26 14:38
In current forms: NiP Liquid Na'Vi In potential future forms: FaZe (They need a good IGL, that's all they're missing) Wherever MSL is going (Hope North would take him back ffs)
2019-03-26 14:39
#180
Twistzz | 
Sweden davv4 
Will be interesting to see what ENCE has to offer in the future. If they are just sniffing on the top to soon fall and be forgotten or if they will be a force to be reckoned with. They have definitely given the top teams, even Astralis a really tough battle. If they develop more they could possibly be top 1, I would be really excited to see that happen.
2019-03-26 14:40
It's French to end astralis era
2019-03-26 14:44
yes im sure the next french super team will come soon .... again
2019-03-27 14:27
MIBR. It's just a matter of time honestly.
2019-03-26 14:51
#196
 | 
Bulgaria Omaiguudnes 
FaZe when they get an IGL will consistently beat Astralis, and form a new era
2019-03-26 19:47
#201
 | 
Sri Lanka ezfaze 
why didn’t they when they had karrigan then
2019-03-26 21:00
#202
 | 
Bulgaria Omaiguudnes 
When he was good, they did, when he became outdated trash in late 2018 then ofc they didnt
2019-03-26 21:01
2019-03-26 19:53
Only Astralis could do it realistically
2019-03-26 20:21
#203
 | 
Netherlands BigMarvin 
Me 😎😎😎😎
2019-03-26 21:03
I will help u men😎😎😎😎😎
2019-03-27 13:38
#232
 | 
Netherlands BigMarvin 
Thenk u men u will be good coach 😎😎😎😎😎
2019-03-27 17:01
#208
 | 
Romania cyber8 
Nip
2019-03-27 13:32
fnatic IF -Xizt +flusha (Brollan or flusha igl depending on the map cuz lets be real Xizt's strats are trash) IF +pronax coach IF +olof -twist (Faze trash atm bring olof back to fnc) IF JW consistently AWPs AGAIN :D
2019-03-27 13:43
#215
fnx | 
Brazil Den1sM 
Mibr. We will be back. I believe
2019-03-27 14:16
#216
 | 
France mdK_ 
Liquid in a few weeks maybe Renegades in a few months without Liazz ENCE maybe in a few months (even if they lost 2-0)
2019-03-27 14:22
EZ4ENCE
2019-03-27 14:23
#219
CAth | 
Brazil Anux 
Mousesports 2k19
2019-03-27 14:36
#220
shox | 
Romania HardeN_ 
G2
2019-03-27 14:43
Nordavind will beat them guys dont worry. Hallzerk top 1 2019
2019-03-27 14:48
#230
 | 
Belgium Ex666TenZ 
Team VeryGames
2019-03-27 16:28
#236
 | 
Asia Antay 
FaZe
2019-03-27 20:16
swole patrol
2019-03-27 20:35
nobody at the moment
2019-03-27 20:49
spacestation
2019-03-28 04:52
North can do it.
2019-03-28 05:09
FaZe and Liquid are the only one
2019-03-28 05:16
ENCE/Windigo
2019-03-28 14:58
#262
 | 
Denmark MIVELELE 
If NAVI replaced electronic with Jame, then NAVI could beat Astralis because of Jame's domination against other AWP'ers.
2019-03-28 16:52
#267
s1mple | 
Europe Sam2k 
4Head My name is Jame 4Head I'm a baiter 4Head I'll see you at the bomb site 4Head a little bit later 4Head 'If NAVI replaced electronic with Jame' 8/8
2019-03-28 22:47
#266
s1mple | 
Europe Sam2k 
NaVi - Yes Liquid - No ENCE - No M16R - No FaZe - No
2019-03-28 22:45
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