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Vitality Move Bad for the Scene
United States clannadqs 
I found the match funny, but this is going to put ESEA and maybe even Valve in a shitty position. I'm seeing a huge portion of this community saying you shouldn't give a shit about this happening, but I believe the opposite is true. This is horrible for the scene. In any sport, or event, trying to take itself seriously there would be a massive investigation opened if a team willingly threw a match. Much less if the literally admitted to doing so. While the team might not have bet against themselves, which isn't proven or disproven, who knows how far the word of them essentially throwing the match spread prior to the match. Now, I'm not saying they should be banned or anything, but this shouldn't go unpunished. It sets a horrible precedent for the esports community which is trying to establish itself and also sets a bad example for future games. What if no investigation is opened? This will 100% put the thought of matchfixing into shadier teams and screw it, they don't even have to hide it now. Can just buy bizons and say they were tired and needed a break. What happens if a future game happens with another top ten team and the same events occur, but it's discovered a friend of an organization staff member was told on Steam," Yah, they're tired so they're gonna be not taking this serious and you might see some bizon rounds lol" as an innocent conversation but that turns into that friend betting and telling another friend who does the same? Does that come back on the organization? You bet your ass it will. An example needs to be established here which will help organizations, players, fans, etc.
2019-07-15 21:00
#1
cR4zY | 
Myanmar xdcc 
arent read this
2019-07-15 21:00
#2
 | 
France Snabe_ 
/ignore to many word can u just do some line breaks plz
2019-07-15 21:01
+1 my god it's so annoying to read
2019-07-17 15:47
#302
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United States Hubterbean 
Unban brax
2019-07-18 02:25
TL:DR Vitality threw the match against heroic yesterday and the guy is bragging valve/esea to investigate and eventually to be punished for their actions as "being tired" is not an excuse.
2019-07-19 23:40
Too much letters. Just ban Vitality for 1 year and its fine.
2019-07-15 21:01
#183
 | 
Australia Junta 
+1
2019-07-16 09:58
#202
shox | 
France Malo0o 
+1
2019-07-16 11:58
+1 but nothing will happen
2019-07-16 12:21
#261
VINI | 
Brazil logzera 
+1
2019-07-16 22:10
#277
 | 
Romania cyber8 
How about not banning them at all?Match fixing=/not preparing for a match and playing for fun
2019-07-17 06:58
#4
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Switzerland MIBR_IS_BAD 
if you really believe this, flag checks out but seems like a bait to me
2019-07-15 21:01
Dude, it's literally matchfixing regardless of what you think. Go look at the wiki entry for matchfixing and they literally have a section for "protest action".
2019-07-15 21:04
#10
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Switzerland MIBR_IS_BAD 
flag checks out then were you aware that they couldn't forfeit?
2019-07-15 21:06
Irrelevant. I don't know how this is complicated. This was only bad for the scene and org. Nothing good came from it.
2019-07-15 21:07
#15
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Switzerland MIBR_IS_BAD 
and now your weak bait flopped, pathetic
2019-07-15 21:09
0/8
2019-07-15 21:13
Define throwing for me, because in my mind it's when a team purposely loses a match for their own benefit in a borderline criminal fashion, such as monetary gain from betting against themselves (i.e IBP). They just didn't care about the event and weren't allowed to forfeit so they put minimal effort into the matches. Big football clubs generally do the same shit when they've got no chance at the domestic cup for instance so they put the most random players they've got into their starting 11 that would otherwise never see the light of day such that the main boys are well rested.
2019-07-16 10:51
#209
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Sweden Akoulad 
Didn't you read the post? That's exactly what he said. How does anyone know if this was an actual throw (for money, skims etc) or not without a proper investigation. From what all we know, they may have used this "we can't forfeit, we already qualified so we don't care" excuses as a cover. It seems plausible, therefore Valve or anyone else haven't looked into it and now they are $50K richer. Or maybe it wasn't a cover, and nothing as at was actually going on. Which brings to my point, how are we supposed to know without a proper investigation?
2019-07-16 12:40
You'd be very naive to think that players with 20-25k+/month salaries would throw a match this obviously for 50k, let alone skins LOL. Not to mention the orgs and esports grew sufficiently to send their asses to court and prison should they attempt pulling off such a scheme. It's no longer 2014, players won't just get a slap on the wrist for such actions, not at this level.
2019-07-16 13:06
let alone skins? I dont think you have any idea how the betting world works aye? Youre the naive one here thinking they wouldn't cheat because they already get "enough" monthly/prizes... you dont know anyone irl or their ambitions so who tf are you to vouch for them here? do me a fken favor
2019-07-16 22:15
Why wouldnt they play a normal game and lose like it was a fair game? Throwing is something you should at least hide
2019-07-15 21:12
Which shows how stupid it is to force a team to play in a match/tournament they don’t want to play
2019-07-16 07:18
So ban Astralis as well. From Gods to a just average in 2 months. The scene is rigged af , MiBR threw a match so Donhaci can win his bet.
2019-07-19 23:41
Why should they get banned?
2019-07-16 10:04
They threw the game
2019-07-16 13:24
Proof?
2019-07-16 13:53
Watch the game
2019-07-16 16:27
Link pls Tak norge <3
2019-07-16 16:30
Breh, they were solo jumping through smokes into like three people staring at them, on gun rounds, with smokes while having bizons with 10,000 in the bank. All while laughing about it. I remember seeing ALEX having armor and 3,000 dollars and only kept the deagle when the rest of his team bought.
2019-07-16 16:32
Why did they throw??
2019-07-16 16:32
Overworked and didnt want to play the match
2019-07-18 02:08
They not threw just no have a fairy match But if valve want to it not happen again they will need to ban zeus and others 4fun guns for pro scene.. I think its not responsible to valve to punish them, the sponsors of the team are wactching
2019-07-16 17:57
#7
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United States Samsquanch_ 
If ESEA starts telling teams what weapons they can and can’t buy, or otherwise they will get banned, the CSGO Comp scene will die very fast. Your argument is understood and shared, but part of fair play is letting teams choose whatever guns and strats they want to play with; ESEA can’t contact vitality and tell them they are banned for rushing with smgs. No organization should be allowed to dictate how they play. Also, matchfixing and throwing are two very different things, and if you cannot tell the difference, then I feel sorry for you.
2019-07-15 21:05
There is literally a "protest action" entry in the wiki page for matchfixing. Don't know what you're on about. Just because gambling, which hasn't been proven, wasn't involved doesn't mean it's not matchfixing.
2019-07-15 21:06
#25
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Turkey Slapdash 
You are actually retarded
2019-07-15 21:24
It has already been stated hundreds of times on different sites that Vitality partially did this to spit in the face of ESEA. NBK even hinted at it on his Twitter with saying," We couldn't forfeit". Matchfixing doesn't have to involve gambling. How is that complicated? Hell, ESL is ran by ESEA as well and in their rules it literally states: "all Teams and Players agree to behave in a sportsmanlike and respectful manner towards other Teams and Players, spectators, the press, broadcast team, League Admins and officials and the executive board, including without limitation in accordance with the provisions set out in the code of conduct. Being role models is the occupational hazard of a team or a player and each team and player shall behave accordingly" It's always funny seeing the professional scene try to take itself seriously on the global stage and shit like this happens. EPL/ESL generally have the same rules as ESEA backs both and ESEA holds the ability to modify rules regarding sportsmanship within EPL. Vitality literally broke ESEA's rules and you think nothing should come from it?
2019-07-15 22:46
If you don’t get any bénéfice, it’s not Match fixing, just deal with it man.
2019-07-16 07:19
#143
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Finland Fliida 
Not entierly true. It can also be matchfixing if someone else makes money on it, although this requires them to be aware of said result in advance.
2019-07-16 08:58
That's partially true, but his response was blatantly false. Match fixing can occur even with no money involved. Literally a section for "Protest action" in the wiki entry for match fixing. Fits this situation perfectly as Vitality can easily be pinned to protesting them being forced to play in the event to keep their spot.
2019-07-16 09:00
You confuse everything. Match fixing requires A BÉNÉFICE for thé match fixer. Yes the bénéfice isn’t allways money, but without bénéficie, it still isn’t matchfixing
2019-07-16 09:09
#155
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Finland Fliida 
Simply throwing the game is not always cause for matchfixing. You see that behaviour all the time in football (soccer to you) when players want to see their manager replaced. It's a technical type of matchfixing in the regards that it messes with the end result but never punished. However esports as a growing activity can't really afford scandals left and right so I'd like to see them punished.
2019-07-16 09:11
"On occasion, teams tank games as a protest against actions in earlier games" How does this apply here? Vitality didn't lose because they protested, they just wanted to get out of the tournament and enjoy their break.
2019-07-15 22:48
It’s also a form of protest against the organizer who refused to let them forfeit no ? Funny way to see the whole picture here
2019-07-16 07:20
I don't think it is. They just wanted to lose the match so the tournament is over for them. But I can't read their minds so maybe there was an element of protesting involved
2019-07-16 10:36
They clearly stated that they had to play because ESL refused them to forfeit the tournament without loosing the slot.
2019-07-16 11:44
Yes, so they lost it to "forfeit" it this way
2019-07-16 11:45
Yeah but it still is not protesting.
2019-07-16 11:47
#116
cyx | 
South Africa bonkaz 
Ah. A graduate of the Wikipedia School of Law. Nice.
2019-07-16 08:16
#127
rain | 
Czech Republic CyberBOT 
Would you mind sahring the wiki link? There's a big difference between matchfixing, which is basically "The act of losing, or playing to a pre-determined result, in sports matches after betting against oneself." - Wictionary or "the act of arranging the outcome of a sports match prior to its being played" - Collins dictionary, and just not caring enough about torunament to give it your all and play seriously. Vitality didn;t want to win, true, but if their smg rushes etc. worked, they still would have won. If you want to talk about sportsmanship etc, what would you call teams buying 4-5 autosnipers/negevs/bizons when winning a half like 13-1 or 14-0, and then crabwalking up banana with duallies. Not very sportsmanlike, eh? But they were just having fun, and not a single occurence of this resulted in a ban or other punishment (to the best of my knowledge). How is this any diffrent?
2019-07-16 08:47
>how is trying to lose the game different from winning 14-0 Are you serious or are you legitimately retarded
2019-07-16 16:58
#229
rain | 
Czech Republic CyberBOT 
I don't mean the actual score, I mean the manner in which the teams have played. When you're loosing 14-1 and the opposing team crabwalks up banana, it's demeaning, it shows blatant disrespect. Not very sportsman like if you ask me. So if there plays weren't punished, why should this one? Also, if I'm not mistaken, they won their first two games, correct?
2019-07-16 17:06
They should be punished for losing on purpose, which is the worst thing for the integrity of the sport. I struggle to see how that is related to crabwalking when you're dominating the game. You haven't managed to explain why they are related
2019-07-16 17:36
#237
rain | 
Czech Republic CyberBOT 
I think we just disagree on the difference between loosing on purpose and not trying hard to win. I'm pointing out that both (not tryharding and crabwalking/trolling etc.) are un-sportsman-like, yet neither is specifically against the rules, or rather neither has been punished for walking the line
2019-07-16 17:48
Dude, they were jumping through smokes with a Zeus on gun rounds while having bizons and 10k in the bank. Then laughing it off when they got shot by like four people right when they exited the smoke. I implore you to try to zeus a few times every MM game during gun rounds like that. You would literally get a griefing ban...
2019-07-16 17:50
#240
rain | 
Czech Republic CyberBOT 
You wouldn't, not if the whole team was doing it. I had a few drunk games like that, no ban. Look. What they did wasn't right. I'm just saying it wasn't exactly wrong either. It's a bit of a grey area kinda thing.
2019-07-16 17:55
Enemies can also report for griefing
2019-07-16 18:46
#255
rain | 
Czech Republic CyberBOT 
True, but in MM, griefing is mostly meant against teammates, so if the whole team is trolling, it doesn't really count
2019-07-16 20:13
Not really. Bullshit argument, dude. Let's take NA ESEA as an example. I pay monthly to play on those servers for better competition. I feel just as shitty deep down when a player on the other team is griefing as when he's on my team. Sure, I'm happy for the win, but I'm not playing on the client solely to win games. I'm there for better, and more enjoyable, competition.
2019-07-16 21:02
#280
rain | 
Czech Republic CyberBOT 
I agree with you on ESEA and other alt clients (FACEIT, FACEIT PREMIUM, FPL...) that are meant to offer better competition and a more enjoyable competitive games, and generally when I see a guy from the other team griefing, I give him a report too. BUT how often do you get an entire 5-man team troling like this in ESEA? Things like this usually happen mostly in valve MM, And I'm only talking about the situation where EVERYONE on the team is doing it, not just one or two guys.
2019-07-17 08:36
#295
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Sweden Jackoberto 
Pros are pros for the competion not to have the opponent use the game for a laugh and to protest against the organisers
2019-07-18 01:49
I mean, I think a better way to counter his argument is to point out that neither are okay if the eSports community wants to be treated as a truly professional scene.
2019-07-16 17:48
+1 finaly thank you
2019-07-16 12:26
#8
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Romania RunnerB0Y 
Didn't read sorry
2019-07-15 21:05
#9
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Europe Brandburger 
TL DR??
2019-07-15 21:06
#13
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United States PrimeHype 
This won't happen in a premier LAN. It was just a bad scenario of events.
2019-07-15 21:08
how is this different than man city playing reserve squad against some league 2 team in the 3rd round of a cup game?
2019-07-15 21:08
I don't generally keep up with soccer, but I know what you're referencing. Do they generally beat those teams even with said reserve squad playing? They aren't going into the game with the thought," Our reserves will lose". Also, playing reserves in situations against lesser teams or when you are utterly destroying someone gives them experience in the long run which will benefit the organization as well in the future. Laughing about getting slapped while trying to bizon/taser and losing rounds and openly admitting they threw it is much different. You can sit here and play semantics, but you know it's much different.
2019-07-15 21:13
These teams generally win even with reserve. But what if Vitality generally win with their fun strats and our sample size of literally one game was just unlucky? There are many arguments Vtality could bring to talk themselves out of trouble, honestly
2019-07-15 22:46
Not any good arguments, though. Especially with NBK whining on Twitter before and after the match about being forced into it. People here don't realize that matchfixing can happen due to protest action and can not involve gambling at all. Also, this showing breaks rules laid out by ESEA in EPL and ESL.
2019-07-15 22:49
#44 Also, could you link the rules by ESEA that you're talking of? There has been much discussion about the topic but I don't actually know the rules by the TO themselves
2019-07-15 22:51
pro.eslgaming.com/csgo/proleague/rules/ play.esea.net/index.php?s=content&d=leag.. ESEA is behind both and it's clear that ESEA can easily apply section 1.5 to Vitality in the ESL rulebook when you tie that together with the first two lines of the ESEA league rules: 1. We reserve the right to change, modify, or adapt all rules as deemed appropriate by ESEA in order to uphold and maintain a spirit of overall fairness and good sportsmanship. 2. The League Administrators also reserves the right to make judgment on cases that are not specifically supported, or detailed in these League rules, or even goes against these rules may be taken in extreme cases, to preserve fair play and sportsmanship.
2019-07-15 22:54
Well with rules that vague, literally anything could be penalised. So yeah, if they wanted to penalise them, they easily could
2019-07-15 22:59
#113
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France SpooceCooke 
Yeah that’s right, ESL is going to ban the #2 team in the world just because they didn’t respect a meaningless shitty little tournament that is SO SHIT they have to force teams to play it. Geez m8 I don’t know what you’re doing but it’s stupid
2019-07-16 08:11
You're right. Teams that agree to play under those organizers shouldn't be punished for not abiding by the rules. Hold up, let me sign this agreement that says," Don't write in pen on the test" and go ahead and write in pen because," LMFAO, FUK IT DUDE. WUZNT AN IMPORTANT TEST L:MFAOOOOO"
2019-07-16 08:29
#173
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France SpooceCooke 
StUpId RuLeS sHoUlD bE aPpLiEd : the post
2019-07-16 09:37
If it is so stupid, care to explain why so many people are taking offence at this? Because you think it's stupid doesn't mean it is for others.
2019-07-16 12:42
#221
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France SpooceCooke 
Because most people like drama and the idea of banning a team makes their mouth water. Just because they want to be outraged by something, anything. Catch my drift?
2019-07-16 14:46
Dude, a decent portion of the community is decently mad about this as spectators and you can't always tie it to betting. I haven't bet for years and this still agitates me a little as a spectator. 1. Was a spit in the face for spectators (look at community reactions) 2. Was a spit in the face to ESEA 3. Was a spit in the face of the teams that were taking the tournament seriously
2019-07-15 22:57
I agree to all of these, but it still shouldn't be penalised in my opinion. It was a dickish move and I understand if people will dislike them, but there shouldn't be actions being taken from any authority. But that's just my opinion, I would certainly understand if you think differently to me
2019-07-15 23:01
I mean, it's not my decision but I firmly believe they broke rules here. It all comes down to how ESEA wants to handle this. I'm just putting my useless opinion out there.
2019-07-15 23:03
As I said in another reply to you, the rules are extremely vague(which is the case for any ToS/rulebook), so the admins can do whatever they want. If they want to penalise them, they can, if they don't want to, they just won't.
2019-07-15 23:05
By decent portion of the community you mean 1/3 ? There was a poll on HLTV and people voted that they shouldnt be sanctionned by something like 65/35
2019-07-16 18:04
And won 2 matches in global challenge group stage playing the same And as Far as I recall, they also bought Bizon in the MDL final match
2019-07-16 07:22
#78
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Denmark sNju 
His comparison with soccer/real football is flawed. Premier league has several cups, and they use the less important cups to keep their reserves in match fitness/keep them happy. There's no comparison since CS teams consist of 5 players that play all games. A comparison would be if Manchester City played a match they didn't care about, dressed in furry Mascot suits. And I agree 100% with your initial post.
2019-07-16 07:04
Your argument is flawed too. You see that from the reserve point of view, but if you see that from the main team point of view, it’s exactly the same : Main team doesn’t play cup matches cause they can rest and train for a week instead of playing every 3 days Just like Vitality players wanted to rest, practice and travel for their next tournament Exactly the same
2019-07-16 07:25
#96
 | 
Denmark sNju 
I already explained this in a way that most people with reasonable intelligence will be able to understand. I am very sorry that I can't help you understand aswell.
2019-07-16 07:32
Doesn’t mean you’re right though. Don’t worry, I understood what you said, but if you can’t undestand that regarding the schedule they had for the past 2 monthes, it’s perfectly legitimate for them to ask to withdraw fro ma tournament to gain 2 days of rest/pracc, I can’t do anything for you either. And I found it really ironic from an Astralis fan, team that forfeited many many tournaments to participate in Blasts tournament, which are organiséd by the company owning them.
2019-07-16 07:55
#129
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Denmark sNju 
It does. I am right, you are wrong. Astralis atleast didn't attend tournaments that would fuck up their schedule. And the truth has now surfaced. The players were very unhappy with BLAST, and are now being separated. So that's a nice own goal dude. Your insecurity that makes you attack others is a clear sign of defeat.
2019-07-16 08:50
#293
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Lithuania OnyxLT 
the baguette is correct pacan
2019-07-18 01:09
+1
2019-07-20 00:54
#40
COCAINE | 
Mongolia bozgor 
nice bait
2019-07-15 22:43
thank you
2019-07-15 22:49
#17
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
This is the equivalent of not trying/not playing your starters (not using actual tactics) in a summer/preseason game of the NBA or NFL. Nothing is going to come of this and theyve done nothing wrong.
2019-07-15 21:13
Way different. Look at #18. Also, summer/preseasons in those sports literally don't matter and that's not subjective. This was still an official event and other teams there were taking it very seriously. Also, they play non-starters to better the org in the future so they can give non-starters more experience. Entirely different, man.
2019-07-15 21:18
#24
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
It's not "way different" just because you deem it different. It's the same exact concept, a game of lesser importance in the scene not being taken as seriously. Just because other teams took it fully seriously doesnt mean Vitality needs to prioritize it, the teams taking it seriously are in a much different position. They didnt just come from a super long run at Cologne and have another large event at the start of next week. Just as much as summer games are still "official games" that represent the organization and fans can pay to watch, the games have equally as little importance to a team of Vitalitys stature. Context matters greatly in the CSGO scene as it's an open circuit, every team has different initiatives and goals. Same way they play non starters to better their play in the future, they avoid playing on their best maps and using tactics and structure in an effort to not reveal much and have better success in the future. All of the parallels are there. You're just choosing to ignore them because it doesnt fit your irrational narrative.
2019-07-15 21:23
Bro, it is way different in the context you laid out. Preseasons LITERALLY do not matter and that is objective. You can't just throw in "a game of LESSER importance" when comparing those two as one has objectively zero importance in the grand scheme of things and the other does have some importance regardless of how a team deems it. No one is arguing they should have prioritized it. I'm not and I haven't seen a single thread, or comment, that has said anything similar to that. I understand they have had a packed schedule and an event like this is the least of their worries. Thing is, there is a difference between not prioritizing a match and throwing a match. You can not prepare for a match due to time constraints, or taking time off, and still show up and TRY to win. What Vitality did was show up, did not prep, and did not TRY to win. It's not complicated, bro. Show up, log in, hit your buy bind for ak/awp/sg/m4, and run default strats and attempt to hit shots. That's literally all you have to do if you didn't prep for a match. If you lose, you lose. There was no throwing involved. As for your third paragraph, this doesn't make sense either. You can hide strats and still TRY to win. This isn't complicated, man.
2019-07-15 21:33
#28
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
And this does not matter at all for Vitality. You're conveniently leaving out that CSGO is an open circuit, this is as insignificant as a match can be for them, purely for prize pool with only weaker competition this is as close to a preseason match as you can get, tell me what could possibly matter less for a team like Vitality? They dont have to do what you suggested at all, they can choose to play however they want, they played their permaban and likely dont have strats on it anyway. All they're required to do is join the server on time and play out every round, they can do so in whatever manner they want, if you feel that's disrespectful that's fine but they broke no rules and even notified EVERYONE beforehand on multiple platforms. Dont you think theyd discuss this with the tournament admins beforehand? Again, they played out all the rounds and never intentionally tried to lose any situations, such as avoiding defusing or whiffing purposefully. Just because they didnt play structured doesnt mean they broke the rules.
2019-07-15 21:45
Dude, it's still an event and is extremely unprofessional. No way other teams at the event didn't see this as being unprofessional. Imagine you grinded your way to the lower-mid tier pro scene and make it to this event and then a team like Vitality is straight up throwing games/trolling just to paint a picture as to how useless of an event this was just to spit in the face of ESEA. Imagine if this happened in Overwatch where a team just picked 6 healers and people sit there saying," They didn't throw. They just were playing the game in a different way". Fuck off with that. Jumping through smokes with a zeus after buying a bizon with 10k in the bank, getting slapped, and then proceeding to laugh about it is literally throwing. Contrary to popular belief, matchfixing with no betting involved is literally a thing. It can easily be deemed unsportsmanlike behavior from Vitality which is against every leagues rules and ESEA themselves have entries stating they can judge whether something is unsportsmanlike or not. Hell, ESL is ran by ESEA as well and in their rules it literally states: "all Teams and Players agree to behave in a sportsmanlike and respectful manner towards other Teams and Players, spectators, the press, broadcast team, League Admins and officials and the executive board, including without limitation in accordance with the provisions set out in the code of conduct. Being role models is the occupational hazard of a team or a player and each team and player shall behave accordingly" It has been stated over 1,000 times on here, reddit, etc about how Vitality did this because they couldn't forfeit and ESEA was at fault. NBK himself said it. Clear disdain for being forced to play in it and these actions stemmed from it. ESEA holds every right to punish the shit out of them and honestly they should because the behavior is unprofessional.
2019-07-15 22:36
#71
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
You countered 0 of my arguments, its equivalent to a summer league game and they arent forced to play how you think they should. The fact that you think you should have control over what they do in the server, how they approach the games, and what they want to show is moronic. And if you actually think there will be any form of punishment you're delusional.
2019-07-16 05:02
They broke rules of any event hosted by ESEA whether it be EPL or ESL. It's up to ESEA now whether they enact any punishment. They probably won't be punished, but my opinion of ESEA would drop drastically since they aren't enforcing their own rules.
2019-07-16 06:10
#75
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
No, none of the rules in their rulebooks were broken by the actions of Vitality and no punishment will happen and if you actually think ESEA would benefit by banning one of the hottest teams in CSGO with potentially the #1 player this year you're indeed delusional, it's like you cant imagine any reality besides your hater narrative.
2019-07-16 06:54
#81
 | 
Denmark sNju 
You're wrong. There's a rule against unsportsmanlike conduct. They definitely broke that rule.
2019-07-16 07:12
#91
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Then Furia also broke it because they trolled rounds and used Zeus and weaker guns as well. Oh but of course that wouldnt be fair right?
2019-07-16 07:26
#93
 | 
Denmark sNju 
Why point fingers at others? We are talking about Vitality. If you can collect enough evidence to prove your case that Furia acted disrespectful, then go ahead and make a thread about it. If you are right, then I will support that aswell.
2019-07-16 07:28
#100
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
To point out the absurdity in your claim. What are you defining unsportsmanlike conduct as? Using a Zeus multiple times? Playing aggressively? I don't think you know why that rule is even in place.
2019-07-16 07:36
#122
 | 
Denmark sNju 
What are you even talking about dude. You're so far out, crazy bias.
2019-07-16 08:46
#135
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
I'm simply asking how you define unsportsmanlike conduct, yet all you can do is attack my character and call me biased, actively avoiding progressing the argument. Yet you call me out for insulting people, weird.
2019-07-16 08:52
#29
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Also have you noticed how literally no one relevant is speaking on it? No analysts, no other pros, nothing from ESEA. Because they all think logically and can process how little this tournament matters and the fact that their decision harmed no one.
2019-07-15 21:48
Because this isn't kiddy land anymore where orgs don't know what they are doing. They are treating eSports more and more like a business and I can tell you right now orgs probably immediately told players to not comment on this issue as it's a lose-lose situation for them. If stewie randomly hopped on Twitter and sided with NBK then the ones hating on NBK are on his back now as well as liquid's and who knows what ESEA's stance is yet. It's just best to keep their mouths shut.
2019-07-15 22:38
#70
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
The mental gymnastics you're doing to justify it are hilarious. And why wouldnt journalists want to break this story, why wouldn't a single analyst give their take, there are many who love being controversial? Because it's completely irrelevant and they broke no rules.
2019-07-16 05:03
dexerto.com/csgo/nbk-responds-to-critici.. You going to keep spewing bs?
2019-07-16 06:12
#76
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
So this Matt Porter person is now a relevant face in the scene? Not to mention we already knew NBK responded lmao irrelevant link that you somehow think helps your case. Let's just agree to disagree before you link more useless garbage
2019-07-16 06:49
#85
 | 
Denmark sNju 
You lost this argument dude. Read the article, even people defending Vitality admits that it's very stupid what they did.
2019-07-16 07:20
#90
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Actually I havent because they didn't break any rules I dont care if morons think it's stupid or unprofessional, its within their rights just like its within yours to have an irrational opinion.
2019-07-16 07:25
#95
 | 
Denmark sNju 
You've started insulting people. We both know why that is. Are you the kind of person that also start hitting people when you run out of words?
2019-07-16 07:31
#98
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
I presented facts, stop trying to take the moral high road. Theyve broke no rules, that's not how unsportsmanlike conduct is defined in any way.
2019-07-16 07:34
#123
 | 
Denmark sNju 
Yes it is.
2019-07-16 08:46
#132
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Maybe by you, not in any sports definition. Nt.
2019-07-16 08:50
#134
 | 
Denmark sNju 
You have to respect the integrity of the sport, and the competitive element. They are clearly not respecting the tournament or being role models. Also part of the ESEA rules.
2019-07-16 08:52
#138
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
This is the same level of respect as playing backups and not going hard on defense in summer league basketball and preseason games. Because of the outcome of the game is irrelevant to their success. They are trying to kill opponents and win the match and it worked in the group stage.
2019-07-16 08:54
#140
 | 
Denmark sNju 
Already countered this stupid argument several times. Cba doing it again, it's just too stupid and you know it.
2019-07-16 08:55
#141
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
You havent because it's an exact parallel. It's literally AS INSIGNIFICANT as an official game can be for a top team.
2019-07-16 08:57
Horrible analogy. This was still a professional event with teams that genuinely cared about being there. The event mattered to most of the teams there except Vitality. This is the same as a teacher saying," No pens on this test" and a student writing in pen and defending himself with." LMFAO FUK IT DUDE. ALREDUH HAD A HIGH GRADE SO DAT TEST DIDN"T MATTER LMFAOOO".
2019-07-16 08:58
#146
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
And a summer league game is still a professional game with different goals for each team. Stop hating and move on.
2019-07-16 09:00
"The NBA Summer League, also known as the Las Vegas Summer League, is an off-season competition organized by the National Basketball Association. NBA teams come together to try out different summer rosters instead of their regular season line-ups, including rookie, sophomore and G League affiliate players." Drastically different.
2019-07-16 09:02
#149
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
MDL is literally lower tier players by definition with the goal of giving them a platform to showcase their talent.
2019-07-16 09:04
Yet the end goal of the event was to have professional matches abiding by the rules laid out by ESEA that VITALITY AGREED TO.
2019-07-16 09:05
#151
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
And they did.
2019-07-16 09:07
They didn't, though. This is like arguing with a brick wall. You originally compared summer league with this event because in summer league they don't play their main rosters, but that's literally the point of summer league. It's a horrible comparison as this tournament is no different than a larger event other than the prizepool and viewership.
2019-07-16 09:10
#164
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
And the competition and the impact on their rank and literally everything that matters to a top org.
2019-07-16 09:32
Doesn't matter. They agreed to play in it.
2019-07-16 09:30
#167
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
And they did.
2019-07-16 09:31
Yet didn't abide by the events rules. You're just making this go in circles now because you somehow are missing the fact that actions like these literally break section 1.5 in ESEA's rulebook.
2019-07-16 09:32
#171
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
They didnt break any rules though? They arent required to play structured or use AKs and M4s. They literally won games doing the exact same thing so clearly they did not want to lose, they arent required to go 100%, just because you didnt get to see the match you wanted to see or lost a bet does not mean they broke the rules. /closed
2019-07-16 09:35
You're insanely delusional if you think this is professional behavior.
2019-07-16 09:36
#176
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
0/8
2019-07-16 09:40
Not taking an event seriously and trolling is blatant disrespect against ESEA and teams that actually cared about it. Must be so taxing getting paid to travel the world and play a video game.
2019-07-16 08:52
#139
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
0/8 why dont you do it then.
2019-07-16 08:55
#20
 | 
United States Acehavok 
1. Don’t bet on matches like this/matches that don’t count for anything. 2. Yes they shouldn’t have “not tried” 3. They didn’t say they were purposely going to throw (from what we’ve seen so far) 4. They didn’t didn’t bet against themselves So with the last 3 they technically didn’t do anything wrong.
2019-07-15 21:16
He is not arguing that Vitality necessarily have done anything wrong or illegal, he is arguing that there may be teams later on that do similar stuff with actual bad intent
2019-07-15 22:44
#47
 | 
United States Acehavok 
But teams already knew you could do this. They already know bad intent = ban if caught.
2019-07-15 22:49
And how is it a problem ? Some CSGO teams forfeit tournament slots every week and it has never been a problem It’s been a problem in this particular situation just cause ESL forced them to play or they loose the EPL slot they won instead of doing what they do every tournament : invite a replacement team, which would have been very happy to have a shot at a 25k prize pool Also, it’s funny how all Americans are crying about this situation when there was the Liquid situation in the ESL one New York qualifier situation. Imagine forfeiting a slot in a tournament, and ask to be invited because in the end, your schedule isn’t that full. Imagine how frustrating this can be for lesser tier teams that need those qualifiers to get some tournaments participations, imagine how G2 can feel after that. Was it fair ? Absolutly not. But the fact is that ESL just wanted to force vitality into playing for one and only reason : There was a reason with #2 team in the world for people to watch their shitty tournament no one watch the other years. And that’s why I think they can’t give vitality any ban, they also need them.
2019-07-16 07:34
#279
Ant1ka | 
Indonesia Frver 
+1
2019-07-17 07:25
#22
 | 
France LanaRhoades 
ESEA's fault. Expected from this shitty esea
2019-07-15 21:19
Guess what. There is literally a "protest action" as a section in the matchfixing wiki. If this scene is trying to take itself seriously this isn't a joke.
2019-07-15 21:20
Not really ESEA's fault. Vitality agreed to the terms of the tournament so they had to obey them
2019-07-15 22:42
Not sure that it was clearly stated before the tournament that you had to play global challenge to keep the EPL slot. Im even pretty sure it wasn’t, as global challenge is tournament you get your slot with your result in the league, not the playoffs. If as NBK stated they wanted to forfeit before the tournament, they could have invited another team to replace them
2019-07-16 07:37
i aint read that damn bible
2019-07-15 21:25
#30
NiKo | 
United Kingdom ExCeL1234 
Matchfixing is completely different to this. Also it wasn't a direct throw, they just didn't care about winning and wanted fun which i support and tbh can just blame ESEA for because they made em go for the EPL spot
2019-07-15 21:48
Literally a section under the matchfixing wiki page called "Protest action".
2019-07-15 22:10
You don’t stop saying that but I don’t see how it’s relevant In their eyes, it’wasnt Even a protest, it was just them not playing a match seriously
2019-07-16 07:38
#31
NAF | 
Canada Minami 
Hell yeah... Like tennismen that throw Wimbledon for Roland Garros should be destituated too..... yeah...
2019-07-15 21:56
+1 Notice it’s mostly fanboys who say they did nothing wrong. I doubt anything serious will happen to them if anything at all since vitality is such a popular team.
2019-07-15 22:34
Valve literally banned the most popular NA team at the time for life and you think nothing will happen because Vitality is popular?
2019-07-15 22:41
The scene wasn’t even close to what it is now. Csgo was still in its infancy. Not even close to comparable.
2019-07-15 22:51
Yeah, I'm sure Valve would protect match fixers nowadays that the game and the scene are established and could actually survive a scandal, but they wouldn't have cared at a time the scene was growing and any scandal would have destroyed the scene.
2019-07-15 22:54
#50
 | 
France Snabe_ 
yes men))))
2019-07-15 22:52
#52
COCAINE | 
Mongolia bozgor 
EPL is too cucked to uphold the integrity of their league
2019-07-15 22:52
Yeah, for matchfixing, aka getting a benefit from intentionally loosing a match
2019-07-16 07:39
Are you baiting or what ? IBP did win thousands of dollars of skins, did Vitality win something except being eliminated from MDL.
2019-07-16 13:20
You don't seem to understand what I've written. I'm on your side of the argument
2019-07-16 13:22
Nevermind, i misunderstood....
2019-07-16 13:29
ESL is ran by ESEA as well and in their rules it literally states: "all Teams and Players agree to behave in a sportsmanlike and respectful manner towards other Teams and Players, spectators, the press, broadcast team, League Admins and officials and the executive board, including without limitation in accordance with the provisions set out in the code of conduct. Being role models is the occupational hazard of a team or a player and each team and player shall behave accordingly" Also, ESEA states in their EPL rules: "We reserve the right to change, modify, or adapt all rules as deemed appropriate by ESEA in order to uphold and maintain a spirit of overall fairness and good sportsmanship." This shouldn't fly according to their own rules as Vitality literally did this partially to spit in the face of ESEA for making them play in the event and they even said so. I hate when teams fall into drama like this, but these event organizers need to enforce their own rules regardless of how popular they are because it sets a bad image for the scene. Orgs, ESEA, teams, etc all want to be treated professionally on the global stage (just go look at the ad playing during Cologne) but then they do stupid ass shit like this.
2019-07-15 22:42
+1 spot on
2019-07-15 22:53
#118
 | 
France ABxel 
-1 Notice it’s mostly haters who say they did something wrong.
2019-07-16 08:25
Notice it’s mostly fan boys who say they did nothing wrong
2019-07-17 13:49
#178
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Notice how literally 0 relevant people have talked about it on social media because they all understand how insignificant the match was for Vitality. Dont you think at least a few pros or analysts would have made it a talking point if it were against the rules?
2019-07-16 09:44
An argument from authority is meaningless. Just trying to protect their business. Just like sketchy aimlocks clips are rarely ever talked about and just ignored entirely. Evidence is evidence regardless who presents it.
2019-07-17 13:48
How much ?
2019-07-15 22:38
It's not about betting, it's about throwing a game because of disrespect.
2019-07-15 22:52
#56
Xyp9x | 
Europe NiQa 
Match-FIXING - Fixing is the act of playing so the game ends up in pre-determined fashion. ... Also, protest action doesn't fit this one - They didn't throw or lose on purpose. They just didn't play to their full potential. ... Your parallels don't work.
2019-07-15 22:54
You're right. The team didn't whine about ESEA forcing them to play /s You're also right. The team wasn't playing to their full potential. If they were playing to their full potential they would just buy a Zeus and jump through smokes mid gun rounds 100% of the time instead of 50%.
2019-07-15 22:58
So it's forbidden to play with zeus, pp-bizon. So if it is forbidden why this guns still in the game. For me matchfixin is : Killing each other, not defusing the bomb on purpose, never buy and not Moving. To finish, on inferno they buy M4 and Ak (except alex on round 3 and 4).
2019-07-16 10:49
While I agree it was a shitty thing to do, they didnt technically throw the match. Theres a difference between intentionally losing and not trying too hard to win because you dont care about the match. It happens a lot in other sports, if one team has already clinched playoffs in their league or something, they will start the backup players to rest the starters. Clearly they dont have to win the game, so why try super hard?
2019-07-15 22:55
Nah man. I can't agree with you here. Others here have tried to point out that they just didn't want to prepare for the match and wanted to focus on the events coming up instead. Except they ignore the fact that there is a blatant difference between not prepping for a match due to time constraints and running defaults and managing your economy and losing due to not being prepared vs. not preparing at all and buying bizons and jumping through smokes with a zeus mid gun round. Come on.
2019-07-15 23:01
You can’t agree but he is perfectly right. Every time people point a real sport example at you, you have something to answer, but it still how sport works. Yes when you’re qualified for playoffs you won’t play the regular season matches fully Yes you send reserve team to play a cup game cause you want your main team to rest/pracc Yes CSGO teams forfeit some tournament slots And so on. And’guess What, the rule from the ESEA you refer to, it exists in every sport, and no team ever get punished. So perhaps it’s not such a big deal ?
2019-07-16 07:46
+1 and betting exists in every sport as well so that argument wouldn't stand either. This is something that has existed in sports for years and will continue to exist. Granted, in traditional sports it's usually to prevent injuries to your starters in a meaningless game, but the point still stands
2019-07-17 01:01
In CSGO it’s to rest and practice. It’s really important to find new strats, work your playbook, etc
2019-07-17 06:49
#63
 | 
Turkey Slapdash 
I just don't get you, tell me, what should have they done? Clearly they don't want to be there and don't want to get tired.
2019-07-15 23:03
Not break the rules ESEA laid out? Dude, I can understand not prepping for a match due to time constraints and focusing on other events, but it's not hard to just show up, log in, hit your buy bind for your weapon of choice, and play a default strat and get the game over with. These orgs want to be treated professionally on the global stage yet allow shit like this.
2019-07-15 23:05
#68
 | 
Turkey Slapdash 
I understand you but this is not matchfixing. It's disrespectful and unprofessional yes, but it's neither breaking the rules nor it's matchfixing
2019-07-15 23:10
#69
 | 
Turkey Slapdash 
Like buying bizons and zeuses in the pro scene is disrespectful because of the fact that these guns are not in the meta and players won't buy these unless they don't want to win but it's in the game and it doesn't break the rules. This reminded me that 2018 wesg finals where in the final match golden bought auto sniper against space soldiers and turkish people hated on him for months but that was for the opposite intent, to win
2019-07-15 23:19
#88
 | 
Denmark sNju 
You play competitive CS with the intention og winning the matches. Vitality obviously didn't play to win. They openly told their intentions, and their actions leaves no doubt. Vitality should be banned from all ESEA/ESL tournaments until 2020 imo. Unsportsmanlike conduct.
2019-07-16 07:24
#94
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
How do you know they didnt want to win? They used the exact same playstyle vs teams in the groups and won, now because they lost it's a throw? That's just Furia being the team that wanted the win more. They were perfectly within their rights to use weapons in the game and push aggressively in the game. Playing for fun does not mean they were not trying to win. They never intentionally lost rounds such as timing out plants or not defusing. In no way was it unsportsmanlike as it didnt harm anyone and in no way will they be punished. Your viewpoint is irrational as you ignore the context of this match for Vitality, it's as insignificant as a tournament can be for an elite team, has a prize pool equal to their salary and prevents them for preparing for one of their largest tournaments to date for them.
2019-07-16 07:33
#97
 | 
Denmark sNju 
You're getting so desperate, that I am starting to feel sorry for you.
2019-07-16 07:34
#101
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
That's not an argument, I laid out very valid reasons why Vitality will not and should not be punished.
2019-07-16 07:39
#124
 | 
Denmark sNju 
You lost dude, just move on already.
2019-07-16 08:47
#131
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
0/8
2019-07-16 08:49
He stated his arguments and thats all you got to say, pathetic.
2019-07-16 13:24
#226
 | 
Denmark sNju 
I literally had 4 or 5 different threads going on with the dude at the same time. It was getting boring to listen to the same BS over and over again. Look how it's only fans of Vitality defending them. Use touro fucking brain for once. I know it's hard for a Frenchman, but please... Try and be better than the rest of France!
2019-07-16 16:36
Dont act like you possess the supreme truth, you're just repeating yourself over and over again, people these past days have given you a shit ton of answers and yet you're still trying to find excuses ...
2019-07-16 18:12
#248
 | 
Denmark sNju 
Read through this thread and the one the other day I created. If you really care and spend that time, then I will also care and spend time giving you a more fulfilling response. Until then, just gtfo and stop wasting my time. Unsportsmanlike conduct, they deserve a monetary punishment, minimum the same amount of the prize money they won, and then a strong warning, followed by a public apology.
2019-07-16 18:14
#347
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Nope that's just your biased opinion. In no way is it a fair or just punishment since they broke no rules. They should have been allowed to forfeit in the first place without losing their spot. Teams forfeit matches every day and they had a very valid reason for it. Their contract says nothing about MDL finals being required to keep the EPL spot.
2019-07-20 00:31
#252
 | 
Sweden Akoulad 
sNju: Vitality obviously didn't play to win. *They openly told their intentions*, and their actions leaves no doubt. "How do you know they didnt want to win?" twitter.com/NBK/status/11504491790361804.. NBK stated himself, that they wanted to focus on IEM Chicago, and no intention to take this tournament serious in any way because they were 'forced' to play. Obviously, Vitality aims to win Chicago. If what you're saying is true, that they wanted to win, wouldn't at some point in their match against Furia, losing so badly, take any timeouts? Or change tactics? Such as, stop buying Bizon and forcing every round. [1] "Playing for fun does not mean they were not trying to win." You just said, "That's just Furia being the team that wanted the win more.", obviously, that showed in the match score, which brings to my previous point ( [1] ). (Also, that's exactly what it means. Either you are playing for a win, or for fun. And wouldn't winning be more fun?) It is clear they had no intentions to win, which even the counterpart agree on (#109). (If this how they play when they want to win, then why even bother showing up in Chicago?)
2019-07-16 18:59
#259
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Not taking it seriously =/= not wanting to win they used the same exact playstyle in groups and won They arent forced to take timeouts, by m4s, or use their best tactics. Its moronic that you think you or esea has control of how they approach the game. As long as they are not intentionally losing rounds they've done nothing wrong. If they had no intentions to win then how did they win previously? Furia was just better than the level they showed. They are not required to give 100% in any setting, they are incentivized by prestige.
2019-07-16 22:06
lol Most retarded argument They asked NOT to play that tournament ffs. So yeah, perhaps that you play to win, but when you don’t want to play, obviously you don’t want and need to win
2019-07-16 07:48
#128
 | 
Denmark sNju 
Unsportsmanlike conduct.
2019-07-16 08:47
Yep. They signed an agreement with ESEA. There were two roads they could have taken and that was to play the match properly or to drop out. They literally agreed to the rules and no matter how small the event was to them you can't just break them because,"LMFAueao, nut importunt"
2019-07-16 08:49
Has never really been, in any sport, a reason for anything else than than a fine, at worst, and usually you only got reprimanded.
2019-07-16 08:51
#137
 | 
Denmark sNju 
What are you even talking about. I don't want Vitality to get a life time ban. I want their actions to be punished, so we set an example. A $10k fine would be perfect, and a warning that if they do it again they get a 1 year ban.
2019-07-16 08:54
I never said that. It’s just that you read everywhere people trying to justify that it’s Match fixing, IBP #2 etc (not what you said but what some other people said) I just notice that if the only thing you can blame them for is antisportive conduct (which should even be called disrespectful conduct, because it wasn’t antisportive) it’s not the big deal it seems to be when you see 15 threads a day on the subject. Just understand why they did it and move on. When an athlete comes to a meeting, doesn’t even try, and get paid for it by the meeting organiser, it shocks no one. Here, they aren’t even paid to participate in that event so yeah, they should be free to decide to play it or not. And not blackmailed to participate in a shitty tournament no one watches if you don’t luckily get #2 world in your league because it had to start from scratch
2019-07-16 09:03
#156
 | 
Denmark sNju 
They NEED to be punished dude. If this is accepted, then you lay the foundation for a fucking shitshow in the future. Obviously this is not IBP #2, but it's a serious offense, and I think that they deserve to get their prize money taken from them. It might be too harsh to tale their EPL spot since it's the first time they do shit like this. But you can't just downplay this as if it's nothing. It's not. They signed up for this, and it suddently wasn't convenient for them, now that they did so well in other tournaments. They should take responsibility for their own schedule.
2019-07-16 09:12
Yep. People defending them are somehow glossing over the fact that a lot of Vitality fans themselves were not happy with this and that is literally disrespectful to their spectators which is against ESEA rules as well. I can 100% stand behind a team not being prepared for a match due to timing as this happens all of the time. The difference is the fact that other teams still show up, play default strats, buy proper guns, and don't troll. Vitality as an org aren't anywhere near as professional as an org like Liquid and it shows. You think Liquid would have allowed this shit to happen? When was the last time you've seen Liquid, Astralis, Faze, etc treat even a bo1 against a tier 3 team like this?
2019-07-16 09:17
#260
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
When was the last time any of those orgs were forced to play an online cup to keep a spot in a separate tournament?
2019-07-16 22:09
That only makes the situation worse. Vitality wanted to keep the spot. It was ESEA's discretion for whether a team can forfeit or not. There were two options here to be respectful. Either show up and play competitively or don't show up and lose the spot. Showing up and blatantly disrespecting ESEA, when you agreed to not do so, is a no-go. Tell me how this would go. You agree to not cheat on tests at the start of the year. You were told you only had three tests throughout the semester. A while into the semester the teacher adds a fourth test, which is allowed, and you cheat on the test because," lmfao, I wuz forced 2 take it and didunt wunt 2".
2019-07-16 22:13
#267
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
They didnt cheat though, they played the match therefore maintaining the spot. Just like you arent required to go 100% on every test you arent required to go 100% at every tournament. You are incentivized for your grade/prize pool. If it has significantly less impact on your grade (almost none) you wouldnt try as hard as you did on the other 3 tests would you?
2019-07-16 22:48
Problem in this situation, for me, isn’t entirely on Vitality, and no one points it. ESL, as a TO, acted purely on a mercantile way, and it’s the problem. All they seen is that a shitty tournament no one watches will have 10k viewers because there is Vitality in it and refused the forfeit for this sole reason, even blackmailing the organisation which just putt tons of work to get back in EPL. And if you look at it closely, the ESL one New York qualifier was allready a sign of that, and imagine how tier 2 organizations that live from those qualifiers can feel after that. Imo on the subject, it’s not fair to invite a team to a qualifier if it refused the invitation in the first place.i don’t compare the 2 situations but that just shows how ambiguous ESL can be about all those situations and let’s be all honest one minute : do you guys think it was really the right move to refuse Vitality their forfeit, especially knowing all the work they putt in this qualification and the fact that your organization itself invited them for an event 3 days later because you want to have them because it brings viewers Kinda hyprocrit from ESL isn’t it ? TL:DR : i think that both side are to blame, and it shouldn’t have any consequences (except perhaps a fine) for this situation And let’s be honest : that kind of shit shows, like showmatches that no one takes seriously, are entertaining to watch, so why not keep the serious CS for the serious events ?
2019-07-16 09:31
cry is free bettorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
2019-07-15 23:04
they should played it seriously who cares if they would waste half of day of practice when they have zywoo
2019-07-16 06:15
+1 i agree, but lets be honest, vitality wont get punished
2019-07-16 07:01
what they did wasnt illegal so no punishment
2019-07-16 07:05
Salty idiot found, how much did you bet this time?
2019-07-16 07:07
#92
 | 
Denmark sNju 
You are the one that act salty. Are you mad that your heroes are actually idiots?
2019-07-16 07:27
I dont have heroes but thanks for the condescending assumptions
2019-07-16 07:39
#125
 | 
Denmark sNju 
You're welcome.
2019-07-16 08:47
No problem :)
2019-07-16 11:19
#82
 | 
United States ChocolateLab 
They 100% should be punished and people should NOT let this go.
2019-07-16 07:16
prnt.sc/oevd1h 2950 $ and he doesnt buy AK. Clearly not a throw . Its new strats
2019-07-16 07:37
Funny how allmost all people asking for punishment here got American flag...
2019-07-16 07:50
You're right. Teams that agree to play under those organizers shouldn't be punished for not abiding by the rules. Hold up, let me sign this agreement that says," Don't write in pen on the test" and go ahead and write in pen because," LMFAO, FUK IT DUDE. WUZNT AN IMPORTANT TEST L:MFAOOOOO"
2019-07-16 08:30
Man stop copy/paste your shit everywhere You forget one thing : context. Cause if it’s not clearly written in the rules that you have to play Global Challenge to keep the EPL slot you won in MDL finals (2 different tournaments), I don’t see how you can blame them to not follow the rules of a tournament they shouldn’t even be playing in the first place. Also, ethical riles like this are extremely hard to enforce, especially in this situation, cause they also won 2 matches playing as seriously as the match against Furia, buying the same weapons, etc. So how is it not a throw doing something and winning and it’s becoming one cause they loose ? Good luck to make a rock solid case with that one
2019-07-16 08:43
I actually 100% agree with you, althought i do not think that a lifetime ban from all events should be made, but getting without a penalty would not be ok imo
2019-07-16 08:03
much.txt
2019-07-16 08:12
#115
ceh9 | 
World mukas17 
'Best effort' rule should be applied in all sports including esports. It's against the code of conduct in like every sport. If you enter a competition you owe it to all the competitors to give it your best.
2019-07-16 08:14
Yeah and you see much athletes punished cause they don’t give their best efforts ? Even in invitational events, such as athletics meetings, you have some athletes that come, don’t even try, get paid for it, and getting invited the next event the exact same way. The reason ? As an organiser, you want the most bankable teams. Because don’t be fooled here. If ESL refused the forfeit, it’s simply because they had #2 world in their shit tournament no one even watch every year. If it was any other team than Furia and Vitality, they wouldn’t even have refused the forfeit in the first place
2019-07-16 08:47
#204
ceh9 | 
World mukas17 
Yes. Federer was fined for not giving his best effort.
2019-07-16 12:12
They didn't throw.... They tried a new meta and failed in the game :( pp-Bizon FTW !!!!!!
2019-07-16 08:19
They told beforehand that they wished to forfeit as the match was not important at all for them. they weren't allowed to. I would have played for fun too and I like them for doing so. fuck these butthurt gambling kids ¯\_(^_^)_/¯
2019-07-16 08:59
Not about the gambling. It's about being professional. All of these organizers, teams, organizations want to be respected outside of the eSports community but then they blatantly disrespect teams taking the event seriously, the organizers, and a good amount of spectators/fans.
2019-07-16 09:21
The best part is their excuse. They were worn out and needed a break due to their schedule. Go compare their previous month of games to Liquid and it's almost identical except Liquid has played a harder schedule. You don't see them crying on Twitter about it.
2019-07-16 09:25
#174
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Vitality played wayyy more qualifers in that time span and like 30 MDL matches
2019-07-16 09:37
Liquid played 43 maps over the last month while Vitality played 27. The fuck are you on about?
2019-07-16 09:41
#179
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
1 month seems a bit short and arbitrary. hltv.org/stats/teams/9565/Vitality?start.. Vitality 185 maps in 2019 hltv.org/stats/teams/5973/Liquid?startDa.. Liquid 138 maps in 2019. Vitality have had to earn pretty much every spot in big events recieving no events besides a last minute one. Their 2019 has been much more packed and grueling, especially with so many online.
2019-07-16 09:49
It's not short and arbitrary. Have you ever had a job? If you have a stressful first few months to a year and then the previous two months it was more relaxed you don't sit there and complain, like NBK did, that you need to relax in the latter two months. Liquid has nearly doubled their maps over the previous month all while still preparing for, and attending, the same event Vitality was complaining about this ESEA event getting in the way of.
2019-07-16 09:52
#182
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
As if that makes up for having played 50 more maps over the course of the year. Not to mention Liquid isnt currently being forced to play a lower tier tournament to keep their spot that they already obtained, why would they have a reason to complain. Vitality played the match out and lost and thats it, if they won with the same playstyle previously then how is it throwing?
2019-07-16 09:54
To be honest that is the most intelligent post i read on this subject. No fan or hater argument, just facts and clever interrogation Congratz
2019-07-16 09:08
#166
 | 
United States flybywire12 
+1
2019-07-16 09:31
#189
 | 
Turkey mustim 
Agreed.
2019-07-16 10:37
+1 (sry, pls no ban for "+1"! I correct it immediately: I agree!)
2019-07-16 13:06
Hère comes the American white knight Allways funny
2019-07-16 09:17
#159
 | 
United States iiScourge 
How much?? But yes they should be checking accounts to see if match fixing was involved
2019-07-16 09:18
#163
 | 
France |Lasso| 
Must we ban liquid and ence for their performance in last summit ? It's not normal to force a team to play an event like esea. Vitality was already qualify and they didn't want to play this shitty tournament. They didn't want to show their strat and they just want to focus in Chicago
2019-07-16 09:28
Who cares if they didn't want to play in the event? That's literally the problem. They threw because they didn't want to be there and in the end thats extremely unprofessional and childlike.
2019-07-16 09:31
#175
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
They didnt throw, they won matches doing the exact same thing.
2019-07-16 09:39
#234
 | 
France |Lasso| 
For the show, it's better to watch this match than blast's matchs
2019-07-16 17:21
#168
 | 
United States flybywire12 
1000% agree.
2019-07-16 09:31
Navi The best, dont be unprofessionals)
2019-07-16 09:52
#185
 | 
France Evocat 
Why did nobody react to vitality's way of playing in the first two BO1 they played at the event? Hell Rpk was awping but nobody said a word because they won these match. Of course they were going to lose playing this way against Furia (top7 in the world rn) but suddenly it's a big deal because...?
2019-07-16 10:05
They hate vitality and they are blind.
2019-07-16 11:08
#196
 | 
United Kingdom TiKoPigeon 
I like how people keep saying "They threw the match" like they were only throwing that Furia match. They've done the same thing all tournament lol.
2019-07-16 11:24
+1
2019-07-16 11:50
#186
 | 
Turkey mustim 
I’m on your side mate. Banning them is a bit harsh, but how arrogant and lazy must a team be to not even be willing to finish what they start because it’s a “shitty tournament”? This is ironic considering that apex called out Navi for not showing up on time to practise.
2019-07-16 10:27
#187
 | 
Germany AYEONV 
+1
2019-07-16 10:29
It's unethical (and unprofessional) to force competitors to compete in any event. The whole point of competition is that the competitors are here on a voluntary basis, otherwise it's just a modern form of slave fights. So if a competitor wants to forfeit, it's them who have the last word, and there should be no negative consequence to them (other than the obvious loss), otherwise this can be viewed as an attempt to constrain competitors who wish to forfeit into staying in the event despite their desire to leave. I don't know the details of the situation, but it's not hard for a team to simply not show up if they really want to forfeit, so the fact that Vitality played despite their desire to forfeit makes me think that there was some "incentive" thrown by ESEA (or some other entity) to make them play, such as a threat of losing a slot, or a fine on the prize, etc... If that's the case, then it would be a form of constraint. Of course it's another story if the conditions of forfeiting were already known in advance (so before entering the event) by Vitality and they wanted to change them in some way (for example if it was agreed that in case of a forfeit they would lose X or Y and they wanted to forfeit without losing X or Y). In that case it would be a matter of determining if losing X or Y in case of a forfeit was within the bounds of an ethical contract, that is: would it exert sufficient pressure over individuals that it would force them to stay in an event even if they didn't want to? If that were the case, then it's the whole contract that would be moot (at least ethically speaking). As far as I know, the rules of the ESEA league do allow a team to forfeit a match, without further negative consequences, which means that ESEA should have accepted their forfeit. If you're aware of rules that do not allow a team to forfeit, feel free to share the link because the rules I've read do not seem to prevent such a thing.
2019-07-16 11:02
#194
 | 
France Snabe_ 
ff = no EPL slot. NBK said it on twitter
2019-07-16 11:14
As far as I know, such a condition is not mentioned in the rules regarding forfeit. So even if they have a separate contract signed, ESEA went against their own rules by posing this condition. But again, even if they did have such contract, it would be problematic ethically speaking to prevent a team from competing in another event for forfeiting in this one, because that's a form of coercion to participate.
2019-07-16 12:06
#211
 | 
France Snabe_ 
That's why they wanted to lose to skip the matches and have a break for like a week
2019-07-16 12:43
Its not professional and specially want you earn 20.000 € per month
2019-07-16 16:47
#309
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Your opinion of what's professional or not is irrelevant. What matters is what the rules say. They say nothing about losing an EPL spot if MDL finals are not played. Not to mention literally every team has forfeited a match at some point, usually with the goal of focusing on another tournament, by your logic no team is professional. Furthermore they won in groups being equally "unprofessional" so how can you possibly punish them? They arent required to show 100% form in any setting, they are incentivized by the prestige, viewership, and prizepool of the tournament. The salaries are also irrelevant, if anything that's more of a reason to forfeit the tournament than play it.
2019-07-18 04:45
I do not say they have to be punish Just saying their attitude is a shame and thats not a opinion thats a fact When you are a professional and paid for that you just have to do your job even if you desagree.
2019-07-18 09:54
#311
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Nah that's purely your opinion. NBA players tank games every season for better draft picks. This isnt even close to that and the NBA ignores tanking for the most part. You and most of the people on this thread are just overreacting and speaking from a position of ignorance.
2019-07-18 21:35
Mickael Jordan would have never done that
2019-07-18 23:10
#316
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
0/8
2019-07-19 00:01
Finally someone with a brain looking the problem by both side of it.
2019-07-16 17:58
salty retarded bettors will stay salty. i enjoyed watching the game, it was fun to watch. but i guess people still bet too much on this video game lol
2019-07-16 11:57
Man you are full of shit in any sports there are tactics like this look at football for example. In tournament where groups are ppl let someone else top the group so they could play against shit team that by luck got there this happens pretty much in any sport with this type of format. It is just common sense to do so. If they did bet at this loss then its whole other story and should be banned for life
2019-07-16 12:25
They don't deserve to be punished for it, its fine to throw a match but if they're betting against themselves and then losing that's a different thing (tho I don't think that's what happened here)
2019-07-16 12:30
#218
Welshy | 
Germany PeetM 
Throwing isnt the same as not really trying. If you would punish vitality now you gonna have to punish every team that has a bad tournament/makes bad decision, because you cant now if they tried or not. Btw i know flag checks out for me /Closed
2019-07-16 13:27
Exactly. Unfortunately most people won't see this because this thread is full of long paragraphs of stupidity but you nailed it. They did the same thing vs. Party Astronauts and won. I guess they threw that match too lol
2019-07-16 18:13
#230
ZywOo | 
Sweden Le_Dieu 
Morons all around.
2019-07-16 17:09
#231
 | 
Denmark Xipingu 
Can we instead talk about how stupid it is to force teams to play events?
2019-07-16 17:12
#232
f0rest | 
Ireland 1iber 
Isnt it stupid to force teams to attend events?
2019-07-16 17:19
#233
 | 
Kyrgyzstan JimHalpert 
TL:DR anyone?
2019-07-16 17:20
Dont waste your time man
2019-07-16 17:59
the tournament was shit and vitality weren't allowed to forfeit without losing epl so no its not bad
2019-07-16 17:30
People are overthinking this so much lol Anyone suggesting that they lose their EPL spot or get banned has something wrong with their mind, because the punishment is not proportional to the "crime", being that they broke that one ESL guideline of being sportsmanlike. Nothing was played to a "pre-determined result" or "intentionally lost". They did the exact same stuff to Party Astronauts and won. People are blowing this way out of proportion. It's not that big of a deal. Just fine them for unsportsmanlike behavior and be done. Or do nothing. What's really bad for the scene is all these idiots complaining about it and proposing that the 2nd best team in the world gets banned or loses their EPL spot. No true lover of CS would say such a thing.
2019-07-16 18:12
The funniest thing about all of what OP said is "It sets a horrible precedent for the esports community which is trying to establish itself and also sets a bad example for future games.". Man, before speacking of the esports community as a whole, you should know a few things about it. 2 examples, in 2 esports games actually really well established or rising really fast : 1) In Magic the Gathering, any player, at any time, can just concede a game to a friend even if it's to give him some points to go through the swiss portion of the tournaments. HAppens alot if you are allready qualified for top8, which can happen as soon as 2 rounds before the end of the swiss portion. And in the case of MtG, the prizepool and the TO are the editor of the game. 2) LoL example. A game where the editor is both the TO and pays a part of players salary. In LoL, G2 blatantly thrown 5 games in the Spring split to give points to Fnatic opponents to try to disqualify them from playoffs. It was both totally random drafts, overaggressive plays, troll plays etc. Same, on Rift RIvals, a tournament of the exact same nature as Global Challenge (kind of like showmatches at the end of a league season) , G2 played totally random team compositions to try things out, and as a results, trolled 3 out of 5 games they played. And in both cases, Riot said absolutly nothing cause there was nothing to say. Fact is, it's not agianst the rules to troll some games, even thought it was way more borderline in the case of the spring split because it was clearly to eliminate another team (and it was stated as such on the social medias by the community manager of G2) So yeah, at least, if you want to speak about anything else than counterstrike, have your facts right. And consider that if it's not a problem for Riot or WotC for their games, peraps that it shouldn't be a problem for CSGO.
2019-07-16 18:30
This happens in traditional sports where in certain competitions the team will play a weaker team. it happens in football all the time.
2019-07-16 18:35
There are people with over 20+ posts in this thread acting very suspiciously in the way they defend what Vitality did. Just ctrlf+f and you will be strangely surprised. Also the poll had 1/3 asking for some kind of retribution, this is enormous and would garner sanctions in nearly all sports. A part of the viewers were clearly disgusted.
2019-07-16 19:20
Yeah, kind of fishy. Some of the posts here seem to have more insider information than what was put out to the public.
2019-07-16 19:53
nag
2019-07-16 20:18
#268
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Not trying 100% in an insignificant game would garner to traction in real sports. This is the equivalent of a preseason game for Vitality
2019-07-17 00:51
Are you trying to prove my point? You posted 36 times so far in this thread....
2019-07-17 00:53
#273
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Lol? I directly countered your point, this would be meaningless in any real sport because it's an insignificant match.
2019-07-17 04:25
It doesn't matter if it was a meaningless game or not. Orgs and bodies of control always go out of their way to enact sanctions if a great part of the fanbase/followers is pissed. They have a business and they do act upon such sentiments, anything detrimental to it and causing huge resentment and a possible drop of viewership get adressed quickly. As such, those numbers never would go under the radar, they would have already examined it. But it's e-sport that's all there is to it. You are still a fanboy posting over 30+ times, i highly doubt you are here to have a discussion apart from trying to shove your entrenched beliefs down people's throat. I made 2 points, you proved one of them, get a clue.
2019-07-17 04:38
#275
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Actually it matters a lot, because teams are not forced to give 100% or show tactics or use the best guns, they are incentivized due to tournament prestige, viewership, and prizepool. The same way professional athletes are much more incentivized during the actual season, because the matches carry much more weight. Just because you didn't see the match you wanted to see does not mean Vitality did anything wrong. No sanctions will be enacted as they know vitality have broke no rules, no one cares about a few uninformed viewers overreacting, theres a reason no pros, analysts, or ESEA hasnt spoken on it, because it's irrelevant. You really think that dropping Vitality from the league, one of the hottest teams with a young superstar would increase their viewership? Step outside of your hater bubble for a second and get some perspective. How did me saying that this would get no attention in real sports prove your point? It's the equivalent of not trying on defense in a summer league game and not using your starters. They used the same exact tactics vs other teams and won maps so how is this throwing? You calling me a fanboy is not an argument, the fact that you feel that you need to attack me to win this discussion is very telling in itself and the fact that you think I've proved any of your points is desperate at best.
2019-07-17 05:23
*You calling me a fanboy is not an argument, the fact that you feel that you need to attack me to win this discussion is very telling in itself and the fact that you think I've proved any of your points is desperate at best.* *Step outside of your hater bubble for a second and get some perspective.* Pot...kettle...black. FFS. Except i'm not even a *hater* and i have never said anything bad about vitality in the past. As if your judgement wasn't clouded with the ammount of shit you post, you have 0 credibility. Btw i watched all of their games. They weren't throwing like mad in the other ones, despite what you might say. Go rewatch them and you won't see the ammount of shit that happened during the last one. You are resorting to hyperbole as well, as if i was instantly asking for the worst outcome and harshest punishment. I never said such a thing, i enlighted the reality, Not using your starters is justifiable and most of the time result in a win for the better team anyway. It gives them experience, makes the match refreshing and give them some needed exposure. It's not really detrimental. People care about it, it would have been a good move to impose a sanction/light fine over this. No one would have been outraged from the 2/3 they would even have understood. As for the other 1/3 they would have calmed down. A win/win situation where everyone is more or less happy and the game and team reputation doesn't get tarnished in the process. I'm pretty sure the owner isn't too happy about this development and backlash anyway. You sure won't see them pulling that sort of crap for a long while.
2019-07-17 15:43
#287
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
All of your comments are pure speculation and ad hominem. You have no stake in this argument since your only method is attacking me, and mentioning "credibility" on HLTV is laughable. Do you really think anything you've said is credible? You're literally doing pure guesswork about how the community, esea, and owners feel. In no way is 2/3 of the community outraged that's a huge overstatement. If that were true there would be outpour on social media as well from relevant people. "It would have been good to impose sanctions" No it would have been very bad to punish a team who did not break any rules and would severely hurt their viewership. Is dropping them from the league not a form of sanction? Wouldnt that be the logical punishment if they actually threw intentionally? To not let them play in the league. That's not hyperbole at all, in fact if they had intentionally threw that would be a very lax penalty. "I'm pretty sure the owner isnt too happy" Why because a few people who werent fans of the org to begin with are complaining? The team is hugely successful and just earned an EPL spot, of course hes happy. This is getting no traction on social media, I highly doubt it's even relevant to him. "Team name doesnt get tarnished" Team name is perfectly fine, if anything this will just increase the hype around Vitality, especially going into next pro league season because there will be even more talk around them and people love to hate. You "wont see them pulling that crap" because there arent any more meaningless t4 tournaments that they're forced to play to keep a spot theyve already earned. They wouldn't need or even want to relax in a match because they have large prestigious tournaments coming up.
2019-07-17 18:01
Argument from authority the only go to for you? Known faces don't have to provide input. You can easily see a ton of people over on Reddit were pretty asshurt about it as well as people here.
2019-07-17 22:13
#290
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
"The only one I can go to" I literally listed like 15 reasons why vitality wont be punished. And yes the involvement of analsyst and journalists is usually prevalent if theres a case to be made. Especially if it actually were 2/3 of the community you can really justify 2/3 of the community complaining and no journalists or analysts touching on it? They literally wouldnt be doing their jobs if that were the case.
2019-07-18 00:59
Don't waste your time with him. He can't even phatom to realize why the analysts etc are tight lipped when it comes to this. Everyone that at one point were vocals and remotely critical were already removed from the core of the scene. If they were free to speech they would condemn such things of course. Look at this *Especially if it actually were 2/3 of the community you can really justify 2/3 of the community complaining and no journalists or analysts touching on it? They literally wouldnt be doing their jobs if that were the case.* The guy is utterly retarded and can't even understand basic sentences. You tells him it's 1/3 and 3 replies later he is still raging as if you said 2/3. A nutcase.
2019-07-18 01:16
#296
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
1/3 or 2/3 both huge overstatements not even 1/20 are outraged. Not to mention journalists exact job are to break stories. Why wouldnt they want to talk about this?
2019-07-18 01:54
A straw poll was done. I based what i said on this. I didn't say people were outaged stop using hyperboles to twist people's words ffs.
2019-07-18 01:55
#305
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
And that straw poll is inconclusive as a insignificant fraction of people who watch counterstrike voted on it. Not to mention HLTV is a very volatile and harsh community, half the comments on the site are literally trash talking pros.
2019-07-18 04:21
That doesn't deter from the fact you falsely claimed i said people were outraged. And then you attack the credibility of the poll. Here is another take that could be made, a mass of people started fanboying Vitality with their recent improvement. Thus leading to an increase in their popularity and lenient behaviour toward them. If such a poll was done for something similar 2 months ago the result would have been harsher. There is 0 weigh behind what you said and what i just said as well. I made this example in 10 seconds i could go on and post you 60+ lines over it, that would still not make it the reality or checkable etc.
2019-07-19 01:29
I hope one day you will wake up and realize how shit and flawed your arguments are. With your line of thought you could justify anything baselessly. Meanwhile you have my utter sympathy because it must be fucking hard to deal with that on a daily basis.
2019-07-18 00:26
#291
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
I hope one day you will actually be able to accept that you've lost an argument instead of trying to use logical fallacies to constantly pick yourself up. As soon as you run out of arguments you claim all of mine are baseless, pretty pathetic stance to take. Maybe actually elaborate on how its baseless instead of pretending that your opinion is fact.
2019-07-18 00:56
Grow up, the other guy told you the same thing i did basically. I don't even care. Only kids claim they have *won* an argument.
2019-07-18 01:08
#297
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Taking the high road once again instead of the targeted discussion. Like I said your standpoint is pathetic and your arguments have been countered. Just trying to do damage control now.
2019-07-18 01:52
Well you can't even read for shit, when you go so low it's hard not to take the high road. I would need a shovel to even reach your level. There is no damage control to be done, you couldn't even read properly what i said at one point, i should have closed it at your third hyperbole really. Let's derail this even more. Have a kiss :p. gyazo.com/62694e120d04aef9efd90e3dbb8165..
2019-07-18 02:02
#304
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Its perfectly possible I misunderstood what you wrote and if you'd like to point it out that's how youd progress the conversation like an adult. Not by calling me an idiot for missing them, that's childish. At this point you're just deadset on insulting me, something people usually resort to when they're out of relevant arguments and as I point out facts you continue with fallacies At this point I've countered every assertion that you made that Vitality broke rules and that they should be punished and gave very valid things to consider on why they will not be punished. "My third hyperbole" Please I'd like to know where I incitied hyperbole. The first one you pointed out was literally the opposite of hyperbole, the punishment I gave wasnt even up to the level of the crime.
2019-07-18 04:28
Hyperboles. When you call someone a hater for just judging badly a move done by your favorite team. Number 2 is when you suddenly claim i want the team to be removed out of the league while i never said so. Exagerating again to make me looks like an extremist. Number 3 when you *mistakingly* say i claimed it was 2/3 instead of 1/3. Excuse me for thinking it wasn't a honest mistake after you did all those *there is a fourth i didn't even list*. You used a passive agressive tone from the get go. What you did was highly despicable it's not how you hold an argument with someone. And when you do that kind of shit and then claim having *won*, despite the fact i didn't aknowledge any of what you said it's a pure fucking joke. I never made a single assertion that they broke a rule. My god you were craddled too close to a wall as a kid. I don't want to engage in a discussion with you, you are a fucking retarded fanboy that will post till the end of day to defend his team. Do you undertand that or do i have to repeat it slowly so you can compute. It's crystal clear what your stance is and you don't care in the slighest what others will say. As if you wanted to have a real argument.
2019-07-19 01:17
#321
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
4 posts of semantical BS and attacking me as I already counter literally all of those "hyperboles" most of which are irrelevant. They shouldn't and wont be punished since theyve broken no rules and the fact that youre bringing up IQ is incredibly obnoxious and pathetic.
2019-07-19 02:53
You countered absolutely nothing i already deconstructed your rebutal. Also a rule, no matter how vague it seems was broken. And the clear consensus and people who care about ethic told you so. But since youa re a fanboy you are willing to give a pass of it. A light punishment should have been enforced that's all there is to it. You called me a kid, i felt like i could prove you really fast i wasn't. But hey it must be fun to live in your fantasy world. You can flag everything as bs/ say you *won/ claim your argument hold valor and mine doesn't. At the end of the day i was pushing for something reasonable and you can't even phatom that people can have a different opinion from yours. You think that you convinced ANYONE in this thread with how you acted? NOPE Everyone you argued with just got his opinion strenghtened in the face of your shit attitude.
2019-07-19 23:14
#328
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Pathetic.
2019-07-19 23:21
Wow i won. *clapclap*
2019-07-19 23:22
#330
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
0/8
2019-07-19 23:23
Imagine going in a convo with someone and then claim *huhu i won* when the other party didn't agree with you at all. Retard you got schooled.
2019-07-19 23:24
#334
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
You didnt agree because you actively went against facts. That's on you for being ignorant.
2019-07-19 23:26
Wich facts? Where are your numbers apart from subjectivity? People already told you that when they fielded another team it was for good reasons etc. That's only you putting weight in your argument and disreguarding what other say and the rules, however vague they are, as nothing.
2019-07-19 23:28
#337
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Facts that the NBA regularly tanks games and no action is taken Fact that this was as close to a preseason game as you can get for Vitality The fact that you using a strawpoll from a toxic community is inconclusive. And the results STILL favored vitality. Fact that ESEAs rules are vague and it's completely at their discretion whether they take action. The fact that Vitality won games using the same approach. All of these are very valid reasons why vitality should not/will not be punished
2019-07-19 23:34
Go rewatch the fucking vod, Vitality wasn't throwing as hard. They saw it wasn't enough and went all out on the throwing part. And it clearly triggered people. We already told you, me and numerous people, that it wasn't even relevant because they had clear wins also by doing so in other sports. Aka in the long run it's not even detrimental, especially when you field new players etc. And give me a break you are one of the most toxic guy i have engaged here in a long while. You litterally polluted the whole thread by your rampaging fanboyism and inability to listen to what others are pushing. What is your problem seriously? Did vitality tarnish their reputation or not? Did you see how people reacted today when they lost? It fucking backfired in their face. And they not done so they would have received a lot less hate. Everyone would have been ok if esea pushed a little punishment or symbolic fine and NBK apologized on tweeter. It would even have been beneficial. Apex went out of his way to even speak about it now i saw. Clearly it's damage control.
2019-07-19 23:40
#342
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
They played the same way with the same ridiculous buys and aggression and good luck getting "they threw slightly harder" to go through in any court indistinguishable in every way. How is it less detrimental in the NBA than CSGO? Please explain that to me. "It would have been beneficial" To punish a team who broke no rules to please overreacting fans. Yes very logical. Certainly wouldnt have hurt viewership.
2019-07-19 23:59
Yes it would have been beneficial. People would have seen that ethic and moral were taken seriously. The punishment could have been light and not really a burden. Not enforcing anything here showed that teams were free to troll in that fashion if they wanted. It would have calmed the most rabid fans of the game that still represent a good portion of the viewers no matter what you say, and accusation of throws would have lowered for a while. Gtfo already with your NBA example when it's marred with accusation and scandals as of late. It's a shit example, football was a lot more accurate as people told you. They didn't play the same way. Ask anyone, make a poll and come back here to see. Or don't do that. Rewatch the other games and list me the throwing instances and rounds. I will list myself the other games specific throws. You will see that the other combined games don't even come close.
2019-07-20 00:10
#344
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
The fact that you think they played differently is laughable. They posted on Twitter and in interviews their approach to the tournament before the tournament commenced. No one mentioned football in a reply to me but yes I did also use that an an example. This is the same as a preseason football game. If I made a strawpoll people would cloud the fact that they lost with throwing harder. Fact of the matter is Furia is a much better team than they played in groups and simply were caught off guard less and capitalized on mistakes more.
2019-07-20 00:23
Fact of the matter*. Here we again. Seriously please do try such things irl for a good laugh. I asked you to make such a list i will do it for the last game. It's quiet simple, of course there is no way you are willing to risk losing face over this. That fit your chara well. Preseason games aren't used for *fun*. Teams still take it seriously, test new things and field players that need playtime. They don't suddenly hop on one leg during the game or run backwards because *HeY We ArE hAvInG FuN!!. The fact Apex felt this was an issue and tried to adress and justify it clearly shows the issue wasn't small. They got wind of this. That definitely counter your argument of: only an insignificant part of the community yadayda. He wouldn't have say shit otherwise.
2019-07-20 00:47
#354
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
None of this even remotely suggests a reason why Vitality should/will be punished. People overreacted and they got some bad publicity, they broke no rules.
2019-07-20 01:27
But you were quiet adamant that it was insignificant and that no one really cared? Could it be....that you were wrong? Even after claiming you countered everything. Give it up dude, what i said is relevant here. It is important to enforce such things. It's for the btterment of the game. If you don't agree then you are just a fanboy only thinking of his team and sucking their dicks. Everyone hate the nba teams tanking and even sport analysts criticize it. The ticket sales even get affected i watched 2 videos about it. They broke the rule, it is the case for me and a lot of people. The fact it is vague might leave it to interpretation but you can't say it isn't the case.
2019-07-20 01:31
#360
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
I can say it's the case that Vitality shouldnt be punished based on how the rules are read however ESEA can do whatever they want. If that's really the stance you want to take than have it. Doesnt change the cact that Vitality wont be punished.
2019-07-20 03:50
If Esea could have foreseen how the community would react they would have punished tem. Vitality will be sure to not do such shit for a long while as well as other teams. A light punishment was the thing to go with clearly. Apex defense clearly shows he misjudged the backlash they would get. You misjudged it as well. I went ahead and checked reddit, hltv wasn't any different this time around.
2019-07-20 10:11
#307
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Arguments are by definition won and lost, with the goal of persuading the other(s) to your side. Only a kid would claim an argument doesnt have winners for the purpose of refuting a loss.
2019-07-18 04:25
youtube.com/watch?v=c4m_Lwp-rS4 I'm such a kid. gyazo.com/74a20fc2917e033514730bca9874e3.. gyazo.com/62694e120d04aef9efd90e3dbb8165.. Every single shit you spew are utterly subjective. You never won anything apart from my disgust at your fanboyism and sheer stupidity. Grow the fuck up.
2019-07-19 01:05
#322
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Off topic again, surprising. Focusing on the ad hominem yet again
2019-07-19 02:57
Ha yeah you calling me a kid wasn't an ad hominem. I clearly was supposed to not prove myself and let it go. Only a kid claim all arguments have winners and losers. 0 constructivity. Having a vision so reductory of what you can get from engaging people on a forum is...blah i don't even want to say what i think.
2019-07-19 23:21
#332
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
I called you a kid because you said something I did was "kiddish" then I responded by saying how what you did was actually moreso. Arguments by definition have winners and losers. I already explained that to you. You clearly began with the ad hominem by claiming what I thought of arguments was that of a "kid"
2019-07-19 23:26
You remind me of a kid handling for the first time a controller in a fighting game and getting perfected. Then he goes on and say he won because he can't even figure out wich character he was controlling. You ARE a kid. Clearly. They don't there isn't a clear dichotomy in arguments like that.
2019-07-19 23:27
#335
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Another pathetic post of you attacking me. Yet you tell me to grow up and you still dont understand the end goal of arguments.
2019-07-19 23:29
You expect me to take you seriously when you say *pathetic*, calls me a kid and laugh at what i typed in the first place in a passive agressive tone?
2019-07-19 23:32
#345
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
As if your ad hominem didnt begin well before any of that. You literally made an entire post about me and another user being fanboys instead of attacking our arguments, that is quite pathetic.
2019-07-20 00:25
It wasn't my first post in the thread. But the post i made about you and the other guy wasn't riddled with ad hominem. It clearly put into light a strange behaviour, another user argeed with me there. Then you went and replied to it after our arguments started claiming you countered everything yadayda.
2019-07-20 00:41
#356
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
0/8
2019-07-20 01:28
Ctrl+f says otherwise :). This is how i would rate you :). prnt.sc/ohiu8q
2019-07-20 01:35
#359
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
0/8 didnt click
2019-07-20 03:48
A shitposter always click, thus i know you did :).
2019-07-20 10:12
lesswrong.com/posts/HxWdXMqoQtjDhhNGA/ac.. I knew after 2 posts i would never change your mind and i didn't even care. I solely posted afterwards because i knew that someone not participating and reading our exchange would mostly side with the one supporting ethic.
2019-07-21 02:41
#380
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
I don't care
2019-07-21 03:22
Good for you then.
2019-07-21 18:13
you too.
2019-07-21 18:23
No u ^^. When do you have your bank account?
2019-07-21 18:25
Yeah and 2/3 thinks they don’t need to be punished in anyway, which is even more And as I said, there are many many examples in many many sports and esports where it happens and the TO, which even sometimes happens to be the game editor, says nothing about it So I really don’t know what you mean by acting suspiciously, but I don’t bet if it’s what you mean.
2019-07-17 07:01
Yeahyeah many examples, and i can give you a ton of example where unsportsmanship and the likes were punished/fined for good reason, despite the majority of the public thinking it was ok. Cs go already suffer heavily from a lack of regulatory organism in place, Don't add oil on the fire, apply a light fine/punishment on this and everyone is happy. +the ethic of the game isn't tarnished.
2019-07-17 15:45
Mad kid, Vitality can do what they want whenever they want, why would they care about some tier 4 tournament? xD
2019-07-16 21:08
read the whole thing and I can just agree with you! Shitty behaviour from "pros".
2019-07-16 22:14
#266
VINI | 
Brazil logzera 
+1
2019-07-16 22:16
#265
VINI | 
Brazil logzera 
ez ban for IBUYPOWER 2.0
2019-07-16 22:15
#270
 | 
United States jay_320 
I don't think they should be banned but I think a punishment of some kind isn't unreasonable and I think it's embarrassing for CS as an esport trying to grow. CS a game that features fucking terrorists. For that alone it may be impossible for it to ever truly break through. Which is why players need to behave like absolute professionals when match integrity is on the line. We need that at the very least.
2019-07-17 00:55
Vitality move bad for your bank account.
2019-07-17 00:58
They said they were tired and already qualified for pro league, so they wanted to have some fun. How much did you lose btw?
2019-07-17 15:50
VforVictory and Jammin800k already posted 71 times in this thread to defend Vitality, that's some next level dedication. Pretty sure they do the same in every thread. But hey you are the hater and they aren't fanboys......
2019-07-18 02:20
#306
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Even if I was a fanboy and you were a hater I still pointed out WAY more factual and logic based reasons that Vitality shouldnt and wont be punished. But yet again all you can focus on is the ad hominem, not the facts.
2019-07-18 04:23
I pointed out way more than you did. *start to strout around* Nope you didn't, you claimed and distorted what i said to make it looks like i wanted some harsh punishment. Then you made correlations with real sports that were vague and totally inadequate in the context. You even mstakenly claimed i said 2/3 instead of 1/3, proceeded to act as if those numbers were insignifiant. But hey if you say you won you must have won right. That totally makes sense as well. I don't have arguments for the sake of winning, i see what the other sides has to propose, i check my own beliefs and see if they hold true afer what the other person said. I pity you if you think that engaging every single person having contrary though to yours is a battle with a winner and a loser, that's some fucked up mentality. Life will give you plently of wake up calls right in the face and you will instantly lose everytime you engage someone over 120 iq that is willing to put in the time.
2019-07-19 01:24
#323
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
The fact that you dont realize the insignificance of the percentages and the punishment is amazing.
2019-07-19 02:59
The fact you don't realize the significance of the percentage and the punishment is amazing? That one is the icing on the cake. Error 404 ability to make correlations and measures not found. A light punishment, do you understand what they are and meant right? Why such things are used? No, yeah i guessed so Mr black and white.
2019-07-19 23:16
#365
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
You still dont get it do you? ESEA has no reason to punish Vitality as they are the ones who broke the rules more severely by forcing them to play for the slot
2019-07-20 04:11
You are now resorting to pure lies. Esea didn't break any rules, it was their right to do so and they always try to enforce such things.
2019-07-20 10:08
#370
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Something not in their contract being enforced is a lie? Okay were done here
2019-07-20 18:55
It's clearly stipulated that they had to play if they wanted to retain their spot. Esea never *forced* them, they could have declined with the ensuing consequences. Also ESEA has an overarching “unsportsmanlike conduct” under their cheating section of the rules. And the first rule allows them to change or modify any rules in order to “maintain a spirit of overall fairness and good sportsmanship.” It’s up to them if they want to enforce the rules. In this case had they know the reaction of the community they would certainly have acted. Apex certainly didn't speak about it on his own, probably pressured by his management for good reasons.
2019-07-20 19:29
#372
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Where is it clearly stipulated? I didn't say forced I said being enforced. Exactly they can ban for whatever reason they want, that doesn't mean that what Vitality did warrants punishment though and they still have every opportunity to punish them so your "would have certainly acted" point is irrelevant. They wont be punished because ESEA knows they shouldnt have taken away the spot if they forfeit.
2019-07-20 22:32
*I didn't say forced I said being enforced.* And i never claimed you said so. Go reread maybe. The outrage already died down, water went under the bridge and if they acted now it would be way too late. With their reputation being further tarnished. As well as the collateral damage that would be done furthermore to Vitality. You can't make the most basic corelation and see how the actors play in their best interest like every fucking business. Or do you think they are dimwits sitting on their asses and that they have no idea what they were doing. They made a mistake and clearly knows how the community will react; i would bet a grand that if someone pulls the same kind of shit in the coming months they will get punished. They acted in an unsportmanship manner, you can twist it around all you want, at the end of the day that's what they did. Enforcing ethics and moral is NEVER a bad thing when it comes to sport or e-sport.
2019-07-20 23:21
#379
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Pure speculation on your part if ESEA thought their rules were broken a punishment would have/will be enforced unless of course they knew they did something wrong (like enforcing a rule they made up on the fly) then of course they wouldn't.
2019-07-21 03:19
Not really, Esea is a business and like every business that want to flourish they protect their interest. In retrospect it's clear that they would have acted if they knew. No one in their right mind would risk such bad publicity when it could have been avoided with a tap on the wrist. If they knew and still decided not to act they are a bunch of retards without a iota of intellect. That's applying general logic and if you present those arguments to a sane individual wich isn't a fanboy he will agree with them. Of course you have to do so without using a passive agressive shitty tone when you start such an argument. Esea can make rules on the spot IF they deem them necessary to enfore sprotsmanship etc already pasted it. Forfeiting a game you can play or throwing like they did is the epytome of unsportsmanship. No shit esea made them play.
2019-07-21 18:24
#385
NBK- | 
South Africa nimmaJ 
Pure speculation again. Hilarious you present what you say as fact as if you're part of ESEA.
2019-07-21 18:52
It might be speculation, but it's stemming from how most brand and platform act in this world. Humans can make such simple correlations easily. I'm sure you will say that Esea wouldn't have punished them EVEN if they knew what backlash would ensue. Suuuure. But hey i will refer you to the topic title. Only a retarded sycophant would say it's not bad for the scene. No one benefit from this and it tarnishes the game reputation for a lot of viewers/players.
2019-07-21 21:31
Literally the only people mad about this are people who bet on Vitality, or salty Vitality fans who got upset at being mocked in the stream chat as the game was playing. This is a non issue what happened. You shouldn't be allowed to force players to play which was what happened to Vitality. They didn't want to play but were forced to as they weren't allowed to forfeit the match. Why should they seriously play a match that they want to forfeit? Makes no sense. This also isn't match fixing. Before anyone can reply to me saying "b-buh in the wiki it mentions protest action", just know that wasn't protest action, it was just a lack of caring about the match.
2019-07-18 02:40
If you think Vitality should be punished considering the circumstances and the basic history of VItality's squad you're ridiculous.
2019-07-18 04:37
#312
 | 
Czech Republic Nevos 
8/8 right
2019-07-18 21:38
#314
 | 
Canada zizzle21 
100% agree..
2019-07-18 23:12
Yeah, then they go and get bodied by Heroic in Chicago. Surely this is a good image for them.
2019-07-18 23:14
Integrity and Fair Play 2019.07.19 Recently, allegations of match fixing in the ESEA Global Challenge Season 31 match between FURIA and Team Vitality came to our attention. The details are in this HLTV article: hltv.org/matches/2334883/vitality-vs-fur.. We can confirm, by investigating the historical activity of relevant accounts, that a substantial number of high valued items won from that match by Vincent “Happy” Schopenhauer were transferred to Team Vitality players and the Team Vitality founder, Valentin Abeloutchi. All together, the information we have collected and received makes us uncomfortable continuing any involvement with these individuals. Therefore we will be directing our CS:GO event partners to not allow any of the following individuals’ participation in any capacity in Valve-sponsored events: Vincent “Happy” Schopenhauer Mathieu "ZywOo" Herbaut Nathan "NBK" Schmitt Cédric "RpK" Guipouy Dan "apEX" Madesclaire Alex "ALEX" McMeekin Professional players, their managers, and teams’ organization staff, should under no circumstances gamble on CS:GO matches, associate with high volume CS:GO gamblers, or deliver information to others that might influence their CS:GO bets. In 2018 we witnessed the explosive growth of CS:GO as a competitive eSport, and 2019 has already started strong. But as CS:GO grows, it’s important to consider the substantial impact an individual professional Counter-Strike player has on the health and stability of their sport. Performing before an audience of millions of fans, they are ambassadors for their game – the strength of professional Counter-Strike comes from the integrity of its players and teams.
2019-07-19 03:08
Where is this from?
2019-07-20 00:35
Old IBP ban but with Vitality replacing the players/team name in the article.
2019-07-20 00:58
Wut
2019-07-20 00:50
#361
VINI | 
Brazil logzera 
Create a thread on this. Lol
2019-07-20 03:52
can't tell if you're being serious lmao hltv.org/forums/threads/2095218/vitality..
2019-07-20 03:54
Happy lmao
2019-07-20 03:53
#346
 | 
Argentina [Darkaren] 
This tournament shouldn't exist /closed
2019-07-20 00:27
I found the match funny, but this is going to put ESEA and maybe even Valve in a shitty position. I'm seeing a huge portion of this community saying you shouldn't give a shit about this happening, but I believe the opposite is true. This is horrible for the scene. In any sport, or event, trying to take itself seriously there would be a massive investigation opened if a team willingly threw a match. Much less if the literally admitted to doing so. While the team might not have bet against themselves, which isn't proven or disproven, who knows how far the word of them essentially throwing the match spread prior to the match. Now, I'm not saying they should be banned or anything, but this shouldn't go unpunished. It sets a horrible precedent for the esports community which is trying to establish itself and also sets a bad example for future games. What if no investigation is opened? This will 100% put the thought of matchfixing into shadier teams and screw it, they don't even have to hide it now. Can just buy bizons and say they were tired and needed a break. What happens if a future game happens with another top ten team and the same events occur, but it's discovered a friend of an organization staff member was told on Steam," Yah, they're tired so they're gonna be not taking this serious and you might see some bizon rounds lol" as an innocent conversation but that turns into that friend betting and telling another friend who does the same? Does that come back on the organization? You bet your ass it will. An example needs to be established here which will help organizations, players, fans, etc.
2019-07-20 01:28
learn how to format your text im not reading that shit
2019-07-20 10:20
+1
2019-07-21 02:48
#376
 | 
Europe loonek4 
Yeah allowing teams to throw the games they don't care about not only ruins integrity of the game but also allows potential matchfixes.
2019-07-21 02:54
kinda agree.
2019-07-21 02:54
Teams at almost every sport threw all the time. Sometimes it's just not worth it to fight every single match. However, Vitality should be given a warning or fine for openly announce it.
2019-07-21 02:54
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