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Zwarte Piet Netherlands
Jesus | 
Netherlands ZeelandUser69 
Dutch zwarte piet/black pete is part of the Dutch tradition of Sinterklaas. Sinterklaas is basically the Dutch equivalent of Santa Claus but is celebrated at a different time than Chistmas. Zwarte pieten are the servants/helpers of Sinterklaas and dive down chimneys to deliver presents to children and give them treats. They also send the bad children back to Spain. Here are some links to research the topic further if you want. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet youtube.com/watch?v=NhepTDg5H7w youtu.be/il5rF5HTjuc youtu.be/IfB4eWyjy3I nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/12/blac.. All of these sources are biased to some degree, some in favour some against. So what do you guys think of them? Are they racist and should they go or should they stay? /discuss
2019-11-12 16:36
Topics are hidden when running Sport mode.
tl;dr Zwarte Piet is the helper of the Dutch version of Santa Claus but there is controversy around him because he's got blackface.
2019-11-12 16:37
#29
twice | 
Korea Tzuyu 
wrong, theres no controverrsy because hes blackface, the entire image is that of a slave, and its meant to be the case, the only reason it exists till this day is becuase of the excuse that we do it for children clearly its an old thing that was made by a hard racist
2019-11-12 23:33
They are black because they go through chimneys which contain soot ?
2019-11-13 09:15
#69
 | 
Netherlands HetIsPatat 
Is that also why they have bright red lips, big hoop earrings and black curly hair? 😂 I grew up with ZP myself and have fondness for the tradition of Sinterklaas, but anyone claiming that the image isn't meant to be that of a stereotypical African is either lying or literally retarded.
2019-11-13 13:21
And anyone who let traditions be destroyed by refugees is a fucking shithead. Grow a pair and stand up for your traditions u fucking lefty. I can garantuee you that no kid will think .. hey it's the black man again carrying the load. Isn't that racist ?
2019-11-13 15:38
#87
 | 
Netherlands HetIsPatat 
So what you're saying is that anyone who acknowledges Zwarte Piet's racist background is automatically a "lefty"? That's where the line between left-center-right is drawn, ZP? I also think Trump is an orange baboon, does that make me antifa now? What if I told you I also dislike the amount of refugees being let into Europe... Did that just shatter your claustrophobically small view of the world? 🤔 Also, I literally just said that I have fond memories of the Sinterklaas tradition so why do you think I would argue against your comment about what a kid would think about ZP's repesentation? And besides that, why is whether kids like something or not even relevant in the question whether a caricature is racist or not? Finally, how does me acknowledging that Zwarte Piet is in fact a racist caricature equal me turning my back on Dutch traditions? Did I say anything in the lines of wanting to change the tradition?
2019-11-13 16:13
Big no. Leave my country.
2019-11-13 10:49
#89
twice | 
Korea Tzuyu 
im not there and the entire imagine of zwarte piet is literally that of a slave, its a old thing, it was inheritly racist, i never said i want it to stop, but it is racist
2019-11-13 17:20
yeah ok and?
2019-11-13 18:41
#95
twice | 
Korea Tzuyu 
As long as its clear that it is racist, im done
2019-11-13 18:43
yeah but why does it matter.
2019-11-13 18:50
#105
twice | 
Korea Tzuyu 
i dont care, i just dont want people pretending its not racist
2019-11-13 19:51
It wasn't racist however all of the attention it has gotten means that dressing up as a traditional piet has become a statement. People who just want a fun childrens event have to comply by dressing up as the alternative pieten to evade the screeching mob of racist antiracists.
2019-11-12 16:42
+1 Amen
2019-11-12 20:55
#3
RattlesnK | 
Belgium rpRj 
Why do you give a fuck about what other people from other countries think? Also, not just a dutch tradition.
2019-11-12 16:43
#4
RattlesnK | 
Belgium rpRj 
Also, not racist at all. The Pieten being black have nothing to do with skincolor, but with dirt. Period.
2019-11-12 16:44
Yeah and the golden earrings, big red lips and the hairstyle are also because of going down the chimney right?
2019-11-12 16:54
#16
RattlesnK | 
Belgium rpRj 
yes, dirt in your hair makes it fuzzy and the lips are red because they scraped the chimney.
2019-11-12 19:45
I know you guys do it too, but as far as I know the controversy is nowhere as large as in the Netherlands. nltimes.nl/2019/11/12/man-threatens-zwar.. Literally everyone I know apart from one of my teachers is in favour of Zwarte Piet so I was wondering what other people think of it.
2019-11-12 16:46
So people are standing up for it? Praise the lord
2019-11-13 18:53
Roetveegpiet is verdriet
2019-11-12 16:49
Cya in 10
2019-11-12 16:52
Why that I know all the rules and I won't get banned for a opinion
2019-11-12 19:00
Welkom op HLTV
2019-11-12 20:42
Reported please comment in English
2019-11-13 09:12
#48
 | 
Netherlands PasscaLl 
#6
2019-11-13 10:15
You got me :(
2019-11-13 11:59
ROETVEEG PIET IS VERDRIET!
2019-11-13 10:11
Yes stop thinking everything is racist. And the most irritating part is that mostly immigrants are against zwarte Piet while it's not even their own country
2019-11-13 11:57
+1 I always say to them: If you dont like it, go back to your own country. Like wtf do they think?
2019-11-13 12:01
They really think that they can come here and change our culture
2019-11-13 12:21
Wuth this goverment it will get changed. Remember this and vote PVV/FVD in 2021!
2019-11-13 12:35
#98
 | 
Netherlands gotnorarity 
+1
2019-11-13 18:52
+1
2019-11-13 20:06
#8
720 | 
Estonia HDTanel 
dikke bmw jongens
2019-11-12 16:54
#15
RattlesnK | 
Belgium rpRj 
HAHAHAH
2019-11-12 19:41
#39
 | 
Netherlands JeffreyC 
Ahhahah
2019-11-13 10:05
#66
ropz | 
Netherlands Lil_p33p 
LOL
2019-11-13 12:41
lmao he's meant to be a moor, not some central african wtf
2019-11-12 17:03
You actually did research Respect
2019-11-12 17:06
+1
2019-11-13 20:05
Unpopular opinion: Whenever a large amount of people are offended by something that has been common in the past then maybe it is time to make some changes. Holidays are supposed to be for everyone and if a vast amount of the population in The Netherlands feels personally offended by a character then we as a society should be able to look into it. To me it doesn't matter if these Pieten are having all black or just some patches of black on their faces, what matters is that we are supposed to look after one another and should consider other people's feelings especially during the holdays.
2019-11-12 17:03
#38
 | 
Brazil 1stworlder 
But that's the thing. There is no large amount of people. It's just a vocal minority of snowflakes desperate for attention because they'd rather collect welfare checks instead of having any meaningful contribution to society.
2019-11-13 09:54
+1 Thank you 1stwordler, for having a brain.
2019-11-13 10:11
I disagree, obviously the majority of the people are not affected by this because they are not affiliated to this 'caricature'. That doesn't mean that the feelings of those who are affected by it is not as important, if not more important then of those who ain't. I do believe that the intentions of some of these protesters are not necessarily for the same purpose as of those who genuinely are feeling hurt by this and it is a shame that these people are using this as a platform for their own good. But on the other side of the story I honestly don't believe that the people that are 'pro-piet' are doing this because they are so fond of the legendary "Piet", these people just want to, as we say in dutch, tegen zere schenen schoppen.. Which basically translates to intentionally wanting to hurt others.
2019-11-13 10:16
Here we go again: “feelings are more important than ...”... It’s ruined the social sciences and it’s beginning to ruin the traditional sciences, comedy, culture etc. Unbelievable, magazines are forced to put faddys on their cover - instead of people who work on their body 24/7 - because them faddys are feeling offended. In Germany the traditional christmas markets had to be remained, because Muslims were offended. You can continue this list for pages. It’s madness and it’s freaking ridiculous.
2019-11-13 19:01
I actually agree with you regarding the magazines and the German Christmas markets, but these things have nothing to do with any type of racial caricature what so ever. Muslims being offended by Christmas is just tough luck for them honestly. That shouldn't even be up for discussion.. But that is FAR beyond the issue that is going on right here.
2019-11-13 22:30
#80
 | 
Poland maerts 
Why the fuck people come to country and then cry about it's tradition (doesn't matter how silly it is). If I moved to place I want to move last thing I would do is to force changes on locals. AGAIN, WHAT THE FUCK PEOPLE
2019-11-13 14:17
If you move to a different country then sure of course you'd have to adjust. But these people are BORN in The Netherlands as well. How can you justify it then? You can't..
2019-11-13 16:01
#94
 | 
Poland maerts 
They should blame their parents, not country
2019-11-13 18:42
#14
 | 
Netherlands poeya 
I dont care tbh it can be kept, but tbh have to admit the Idea is kinda racist and weird some old white guy is boss off all these petes
2019-11-12 19:01
nt black pete
2019-11-12 19:45
Ja, maar dat betekent niet dat het helemaal afgeschaft moet worden.
2019-11-12 20:43
#28
 | 
Netherlands poeya 
ja true is wel leuk voor de kinderen, dat zie ik als de enige reden om het te behouden
2019-11-12 23:31
#36
ropz | 
Netherlands Lil_p33p 
waarom janken wij hier eigenlijk om?
2019-11-13 09:29
#88
 | 
Netherlands poeya 
omdat sommige wel kunnnen nadenken en meeleven met andere mensen en andere zijn retardos
2019-11-13 16:18
#90
ropz | 
Netherlands Lil_p33p 
Het is voor kinderen
2019-11-13 18:30
#91
 | 
Netherlands poeya 
#28
2019-11-13 18:38
#96
ropz | 
Netherlands Lil_p33p 
True, dat is het ook
2019-11-13 18:48
#103
 | 
Netherlands poeya 
maar je hebt gelijk veel mensen zijken veel, vooral als je gaat protesteren bij zon kinderfeets vindt ik heel laag
2019-11-13 19:10
#104
ropz | 
Netherlands Lil_p33p 
dan staan er 1000 kinderen en naast die kinderen staan er 50 mensen op de vuist omdat ze het willen afschaven
2019-11-13 19:23
#34
ropz | 
Netherlands Lil_p33p 
Broer, Sinterklaas is een turk.
2019-11-13 09:27
Just like any other company, your argument is invalid, asf. No hard feelings tho
2019-11-13 20:05
#116
 | 
Netherlands poeya 
haha your argument is invalid btw, get with the times the idea is racist esp for black immigrants in netherlands
2019-11-13 21:36
Cry is free, #6 #25
2019-11-13 22:24
It's never meant to be racist, it's being made racist by ppl who's only job is to cry about everything. As #25 tells you, 'Zwarte piet' is meant to either be an moor or an chimney cleaner, not an African American.
2019-11-13 22:26
#127
 | 
Netherlands poeya 
chimney cleaner bla bla bla just look at sinterklaas en zwarte piet
2019-11-13 23:10
>They also send the bad children back to Spain. This Zwarte Piet has big cojones , poor kids. Weird thing from you, Dutch
2019-11-12 19:50
This is an international site, please write your comment in English. Comments in another language will be deleted.
2019-11-12 19:53
#61
lan | 
Turkey Styyx 
It never gets deleted tho
2019-11-13 12:30
#74
 | 
Norway k3ron 
Wrong
2019-11-13 13:32
like wtf how special snowflake did the world become. soon everything is banned u cant do shit anymore.
2019-11-12 19:55
BROER HIER BEN IK, <3 zwarte piet tho
2019-11-12 20:43
#24
Coffee | 
Netherlands p2dr 
should be banned
2019-11-12 20:47
Like you
2019-11-13 13:30
no, if it has no racial meaning - "blackface" is to symbolize chimney tar since the helpers of sinter niklaas go through them to give children presents and "sending children to Spain" is also historical, commemorating the dutch revolt (IMO, i never cared about controversy in first place)
2019-11-12 20:53
#46
 | 
Netherlands PasscaLl 
+1
2019-11-13 10:14
+1
2019-11-13 10:14
Don't really care what they do with it. The sad thing is that it's a thing for kids and every year you see crying kids because people are protesting and fighting during events, fucking ridiculous. Let the kids enjoy this holiday
2019-11-12 21:02
#35
ropz | 
Netherlands Lil_p33p 
+1
2019-11-13 09:28
#45
 | 
Netherlands PasscaLl 
+1
2019-11-13 10:13
#51
 | 
Netherlands Kaasplankje 
+1
2019-11-13 10:51
+1
2019-11-13 20:03
#32
ropz | 
Netherlands Lil_p33p 
Ah shit, here we go again.
2019-11-13 09:26
#57
 | 
Belgium HLTVnewfag 
+1
2019-11-13 12:27
#33
 | 
Netherlands staticNL 
As long as we have a unified piet, that is unrecognizable from the actors themselves to children (most pieten are people the children know). Then im fine with it. I dont like a different style of pieten in every school, village and area. I also really dislike people protesting during sinterklaas. Leave the children out of it.
2019-11-13 09:27
KOZP are just a bunch of retards, that life of a uitkering. :)
2019-11-13 10:13
Ahahahaha +1 kut volk
2019-11-13 12:29
Gelijk terugsturen!😎
2019-11-13 12:36
+1, kansenparels en azijnzeikers hoeven we niet niet
2019-11-13 13:17
Het ergste van alles is nog, dat die triesten mensen subsidie krijgen van de regering... Dus onthoud dit, en stem goed in 2021 ;).
2019-11-13 13:18
FvD :)
2019-11-13 13:29
Stem persoonlijk PVV, maar FVD mag ook zeker aan de macht komen. Jezus wat ben ik klaar met VVD, D66, GL, CDA, PVDA en de kutste partij van alles is Denk.
2019-11-13 14:07
Kuzuuuuuu debiel
2019-11-13 20:03
Echt belachelijk dat er uberhuapt 3 Turkse onderdanen in het parlement zitten.
2019-11-13 20:04
+1, geïndoctrineerd tot op het bot
2019-11-13 22:27
#37
 | 
Netherlands gay_marriage 
Idc if IT gets changed or not Christmas is better
2019-11-13 09:46
#44
 | 
Netherlands PasscaLl 
Its a tradition so if immigrants choose to live in the Netherlands they should accept that this is our tradition (which is not racist cuz they are black because of the chimneys and they are having fun helping)
2019-11-13 10:13
+1
2019-11-13 12:27
Lui verneuken alles hier in NL en Markie de imbiciel knikt maar ja en amen zodat ie zelf geen klappen krijgt op straat, pussy politiek. Edit: even drugaddicted WakaFlakkaAbuserFlame is trying to get into this on Instagram, he won't come to NL untill it's fixed, who cars lmao.
2019-11-13 12:28
#73
 | 
Norway k3ron 
Reported for Dutch language
2019-11-13 13:31
Nt secretyekindarfan
2019-11-13 13:42
#76
 | 
Norway k3ron 
Who? Yes, I'm fangay of YEKINDAR, no shit
2019-11-13 13:43
Nt alterino, reported
2019-11-13 13:44
#78
 | 
Norway k3ron 
What's my alt, kid?
2019-11-13 13:44
Kid insult. Nice lmao, I guess I'm twice your age judging by the fact that you're trying to get into an altercation, why tho?
2019-11-13 15:19
#82
 | 
Norway k3ron 
I used "kid" as a "buddy", not as an insult
2019-11-13 15:21
Then call me buddy, not kid. Have a nice day sir.
2019-11-13 15:31
#84
 | 
Norway k3ron 
u2 buddy
2019-11-13 15:31
#59
 | 
Belgium HLTVnewfag 
Society boys
2019-11-13 12:28
#62
OCEAN | 
Reunion 1iquser 
looks pretty chill if someone is offended by this, they have a small brain
2019-11-13 12:32
#63
lan | 
Turkey Styyx 
Idk maybe not make their whole face black, just a little bit dark and some stripes so it actually looks like they went down the chimney
2019-11-13 12:33
#70
 | 
Netherlands HetIsPatat 
They are actually trying that, but half the country doesn't like it.
2019-11-13 13:28
#92
JaCkz | 
Belgium Jasper55 
Not racist, leftists being leftists
2019-11-13 18:39
#102
 | 
Poland PanArek 
Men i love Sinterklass, ofc they should stary with it
2019-11-13 19:03
+1 Can't wait till 5 december.
2019-11-13 20:05
#115
 | 
Poland PanArek 
My dutch friend also xd i talked with him today bout this
2019-11-13 21:35
I’ve already begun stockpiling food, water, batteries and weapons. You should tell your friend to do the same.
2019-11-13 23:07
#113
 | 
Poland friendlySeb 
I think they should go tbh, i prefer normal Santa Claus.
2019-11-13 20:07
#114
 | 
United States jay_320 
Obviously racist. I'm sure people will just say it's my American perspective and Europe just doesn't have the same issues we have here. Which is nonsense. It ignores Western Europe's central role in the North Atlantic Slave trade. Which I should add was protection of the shipping lanes that brought them to the new world. No one can really make the argument in good faith. The origins definition in wikipedia is actually pretty clear. According to a long-standing theory first proposed by Karl Meisen,[11] Zwarte Piet and his equivalents in Germanic Europe originally represented such an enslaved devil, forced to assist his captor. This chained and fire-scorched devil may have re-emerged as a black human in the early 19th-century Netherlands, in the likeness of a Moor and as a servant of Saint Nicholas. Just lose the extremely poor optics and be done with it. We are talking about a fictional character in the modern world. I will say that it's hilarious the bad children get sent back to Spain. I would love to see some parent threatening that when their kids asking for a switch or something.
2019-11-13 20:22
i dont think many would bother if they just ban this clownery.
2019-11-13 22:33
You are beyond wrong.
2019-11-13 23:05
mostly just elderly ppl will care cuz they think its a win for the black race or some shit.
2019-11-13 23:09
Literally everyone I know disagrees with it.
2019-11-13 23:10
#124
rko | 
Saudi Arabia WWF 
Black Pete Willy Willy weed
2019-11-13 23:08
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