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Faith (Religious only)
United States eggiebiscuit_god 
So I was having a thought. Is there a difference in faith via ignorance vs. faith in the face of contradicting knowledge. I'm not sure how to put this -- Let me try to clear it up with an example: Let's say there is a man (Man #1) who was taught Christianity by his father on a farm. He never learned of other religions or science. So of course, he is a faithful Christian. Let's compare him to a well-studied man (Man #2) who has traveled the world. He has studied and read about the big bang, evolution, etc. He has also learned about hundreds of the world's religions. He has questioned his religion and his surroundings all of his life. Even though he has learned all of this, he has decided to remain a devout Christian for the foreseeable future. So my question is: What is the difference in these faiths? Is it fair to say that Man #2 has stronger faith, and is even maybe a ""better"" Christian since he has learned so many things that are alternatives (not exactly the right word), but chooses to stay a Christian through a knowledgeable and rational process. Conversely, Man #1 is simply a Christian out of sheer chance. He simply believes in God because people he trusts told him so, and he never taught any better. Again, my question is: Is there a material difference in these faiths? Potentially in the eyes of God even? Also, is there more reading I could possibly do on this subject? I am quite interested. [Atheists trolls will be ignored; I was you once so I understand your ways.]
2019-12-13 21:31
Topics are hidden when running Sport mode.
Bump #1, thread instantly died for some reason
2019-12-13 21:34
#3
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Latvia latvianguy 
Because I don't think anyone cared enough to reply here.
2019-12-13 21:35
#2
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Finland tiktoklover 
Didnt even read, ofc the god loving kid is from the USA
2019-12-13 21:34
#4
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Latvia latvianguy 
I love Aleksib, he is so hot I would smash. 10/10
2019-12-13 21:35
cmonBruh
2019-12-13 22:00
#5
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United States sorcrcrc 
god omegalul shut the fuck up
2019-12-13 21:36
#86
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Estonia MorsAlbum 
+1 no one is fucking reading that but people who are really not good at living life/life in general
2019-12-15 01:43
I have more respect for Man 1, because it's his only truth. Man 2 know everything, but he still belive that shit, yeas is faith is stronger, but his iq much lower too IMO lol.
2019-12-13 21:38
#7
OCEAN | 
Reunion 1iquser 
keep worshiping in your ancient beliefs. get some new shit like simulation shit and other stuff
2019-12-13 21:39
I think this is a really interesting topic. From my point of view, man #2 has a much stronger faith than man #1, but I doubt an all knowing and all good god would distinguish between their faiths. I feel much more similar to man #2 than man #1, with the exception being that I couldn't continue believing with all of the information presented to me. I was raised catholic and participated in the church for ~10 years from elementary school to the end of high school, and I definitely did believe at one point, but I just can't truly believe anymore. I feel that if I was in the shoes of man #1, I could have been faithful my whole life. Being closer to man #2 is what pushed me to atheism.
2019-12-13 21:40
First of all -- I appreciate you being the first person to not give a low effort bait response. The more I think about it, Man #1 doesn't even have faith in a way. He simply believes it to be the definitive and only possible truth which contradicts faith in itself, which is trusting in something that isn't 100% definitive. Do you mind me asking how old you are? I was atheist for several years as well. I can definitely see how large churches can push you away from religion; many people are truly brainwashed and never question what they were told -- it's pretty scary and saddening. I do hope you find some spiritual peace in your life if you haven't already, whether it be through some god or personal experience.
2019-12-13 21:53
I'm only 20, so there's still time for some mindset altering experiences. I find a lot of comfort in friends and family, and living my life according to a lot of the values I learned through the church even if I'm not doing it for the same reasons. I think a lot of people simply go to church for the community aspect even though their personal views/beliefs may not align perfectly with the church. Definitely some are "brainwashed", but its much more interesting (and valuable imo) to talk to people that have seriously questioned their faith but are still faithful.
2019-12-13 21:59
@MidwestCalifornian have you heard about Orthodox Church and their beliefs i think u can find the Truth word u seek there
2019-12-14 20:11
I don't think one is held higher in the eyes of God, just one had more experience with the modern world, I don't think there is too much of a divide in these two outcomes.
2019-12-13 21:40
Yes it's very possible, Christianity just details how we all act anyway in a digestible format
2019-12-13 21:44
#11
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Italy Jureg 
I don't think that Man #2 will have a "stronger faith". I do fit in the persona of the Man #2. I'm a software developer, have my own software company. I'm surrounded by "really smart people". My brother is a Biology Doctor, and so goes on my friendship circle. Romans 10:17 says: "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." I do think that the Man #2 would be really better prepared for Christian Apologetics.
2019-12-13 21:44
#12
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Italy Jureg 
"Again, my question is: Is there a material difference in these faiths? Potentially in the eyes of God even?" For me, Yes.
2019-12-13 21:50
No, man #2 does not have a stronger faith
2019-12-13 22:01
I don't think so, faith comes from hearing. Pilgrim's author, for example, was not a cult man, but his teachings are wonderful. On the other hand, Lewis was very cult, previous atheist and his teachings are wonderful. The great thing is not about what you know, but about how closer you are to Christ, the Truth. The #1 man have his own temptations and doubts, and going through it is a proof of his love for God. Also, the author of Ecclesiastes writes about this knowledge x ignorance thing.
2019-12-13 22:16
#18
f0rest | 
Argentina Nawll 
There is simply no way a man that is that knowledgeable still believes in religion after learning about the many of them that exist unless he's just afraid of his religion's God, he can still believe in some kind of concept he has accepted as God dont get me wrong but religion is just stupid and you realise how pointless it is to pick a side.
2019-12-13 22:21
#20
flusha | 
Norway dr_fiji 
I have a lot of knowledge about the worlds religions. Many Muslim friends. I have a PhD in technology, work as engineer, generally smart, read a lot. And yes, I believe in God as described in the Bible. And no, the reason I still believe is not due to fear. My main reasons: - Bible is unique. - I have seen some miraculous healings, and read about many more. - I experience that the teachings in the Bible about life is good for me - I experience that living close to God helps me be a good person
2019-12-13 22:27
#23
f0rest | 
Argentina Nawll 
That's fine but do you think all other religions are wrong or what do you think about them? also there is just no way you have even read all of some of the others books that have the same intent as the bible (i doubt you've even read all the bible in the first place). The reason i said that is pointless to pick one is because all religions are pratically the same with some minor differences, except probably buddhism. I really dont see any point in believing in any religion and i actually find it more logical to make up your own concept of what an entity like a God would be like to be honest. Also: - As i said the bible is not unique, it's very much like any other holy book - What do you mean "miraculous healings" because if you throw a coin thousands of times you'll eventually see it land on its edge, wonder why no one has been able to grow new legs? because its fucking impossible, although you can see someone get cured from cancer because that's is indeed possible. -That is great im sure a lot of people from other religions feel the same about theirs tho. -I dont believe you need religion or the concept of a God to understand what it means to be a good person, not a religion not your parents either, although teaching definitelly help and speed up the process of learning for sure.
2019-12-13 23:59
#24
flusha | 
Norway dr_fiji 
short answer: I think all other religions are wrong. long answer: christianity and judaism have the old testament in common, so obviously there is many truths about God in judaism. islam is also to a large extent based on christianity and judaism (muhammed some knowledge about these), so even here you will find some trouths. Also, you will find some common ground about ethics, human wisdom etc between many religions, which is true. But I consider this to be "common sense" and not divine revelation. No, I have not read all holy books from other religions. But based on what I have read, I have an opinion on the origin of these religions, and I think their origin is not supernatural, but more based on myths, thoughts, and extacy (not sure if correct word in english). I think the bible is different in following aspects: - Jesus. A man claiming to be son of God, and an incarnation showing us who God is. - miracles, which cannot be explained by placebo, and the people have names, it is written where it happened, and it is told by eyewitnesses. - many prophecies which are fulfilled, mainly in Jesus If you compare with e.g. islam, even quoran teaches that Jesus was very different than Mohammed in that Jesus did miracles, and Mohammed did not. and yes, I have indeed read all of the bible :)
2019-12-14 13:39
#28
f0rest | 
Argentina Nawll 
Here you're spitting out random and vague nonsense that i wont even ask you to elaborate, unless you want to of course. I can also make up prophecies that i think will be likely to happen in the future, in fact i can actually predict the future if i appeal to science. -What i will say tho is that the only reason you're siding with christianity is because you were taught to do so from the moment you were born (i was the same way aswell). What you're saying about islam is actually just confirmation bias, you want christianity to be the correct religion so you just discard of others ones as a source for truth, and its funny cuz christianity itself is inspired by some forms of paganism.
2019-12-14 19:43
#49
flusha | 
Norway dr_fiji 
Of course I want to elaborate, at least a little bit:) You can read about the prophecies here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_prophecy#Jes.. Also, I recommend reading psalm 22 and Isaiah 53, and then compare with the passion of the Christ as described in the gospels. Also, check out this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_Sevent.. There are indeed some difficulties regarding prophecies: - Jesus knew about them, he could also just do what the prophecies told. This is true for some of the prophecies, but not all. - Some of the prophecies are "out of context", that is, their "prophecy" meaning is different to their original meaning. The jews were expecting a warrior messiah to fight against the romans, so Jesus did indeed not personate the role that most people had of messiah.
2019-12-14 20:39
#71
f0rest | 
Argentina Nawll 
is funny how the link you send literally has prophecies from islam and judaism aswell, im sure you believe those are correct aswell right? hehe No but seriously the mere fact that the same "profecies" written in the bible can be interpreted in different ways and that christians and jewish (which are the people who believe in those prophecies) people disagree with their meaning is enough evidence for me to completely diminiss its importance. im sorry
2019-12-14 21:08
#77
flusha | 
Norway dr_fiji 
1. Yes, I believe the judaism prophecies are correct as well. A lot of judaism is corporated into Christianity. 2. No, I don't believe in the islamic intepretations of bible listed on the page. 3. I'm sad that you dismiss all prophecies due to this. I think you do make a wrong judgement, and I highly recommend reading if just only Isaiah chapter 53, and then compare with the passion of the Christ.
2019-12-14 22:33
#78
f0rest | 
Argentina Nawll 
again we're not having an argument here the only reason you side with christianity is because the place and time you were born in, its just your biased opinion and i can't ever hope to change that wolrd view you have (not that i care), as long as you feel fulfilled believing in what you believe and if you're a good person is completely fine.
2019-12-14 23:23
#25
flusha | 
Norway dr_fiji 
Miracles: I have recently read a book which is a collection of stories of healing. Not just "stories", but testimonies which include statements from health profetionals. I understand your coin-flipping argument, but it doesn't hold against the storeis when you read them. For example: girl with hearing loss for many years, check hearing one day and she cant hear anything, prayer session for her in the evening, check next day, and hearing completely restored. The probability of gaining back hearing is extremely unlikely, and the probability of it happening exact the same day is extremely small. The book is filled with similar stories.
2019-12-14 13:44
#29
f0rest | 
Argentina Nawll 
Im actually quite intrigued, if you have any reliable source on any of these so called miracles please let me know
2019-12-14 19:44
#34
flusha | 
Norway dr_fiji 
The book I have read is called «dokumenterade mirakler», Google it, but it is in swedish..
2019-12-14 20:02
A book is not a proof. Of the hundreds of so called miracles, there isnt a single proof to any of them. Also have you read into the origins of christianity and how similar many parts are to older religions and mythic believes? Believing in the bible also means you dont accept evolution and you are basically a creationist.
2019-12-14 21:09
#76
flusha | 
Norway dr_fiji 
1. How do you know that there is no proof? Because you have not seen any? And you think that means there aren’t any? 2. The book is literally full of proof 3. Yes, I have indeed read about origins of religions. Currently reading a several hundred pages manuscript about this written by atheist friend. 4. I believe in the theory of evolution. I understand that you might think it is incompatible with believing in the Bible. The Bible is complex book. The main parts (gospels, most New Testamen) is easy to interpret. Old Testament very difficult to interpret. Some things should not be interpreted literally.
2019-12-14 21:36
I dont have to see something in order to believe it, but if something is against all logic, then there better is some support. Weird thats its always just people saying it. Also what exactly is a miracle to you and how does it happen? Is it god influencing the world? Dont you think its cherrypicking if there is millions of people praying to god and some of them overcome an illness? Is there any statistical proof that praying and believing in god cures anything? "The book" is not a source and I dont own the book, but feel free to reference me to any case that can be proven. Soe how come you call christianty unique, if there is clear evidence that christianity is heavily unfluenced by religions and mythic beliefs that already existed? Doesnt it matter that stories slightly changed aswell? The Bible is by no means standing on its own. "Some things should not be interpreted literally." Who are you to tell apart what is to be taken literally and waht not? Its nowhere specified in the bible. In otherwords you can choose what you take literally and waht not, so everything that would count as arguement against your point, can just be made irrelevant. This has happened in christianity all the time, its constantly changing what is to be taken literlly and how to interpret it all the time.
2019-12-15 00:14
#68
flusha | 
Norway dr_fiji 
I think this book is somewhat similar but in english: amazon.com/Miracles-Credibility-New-Test..
2019-12-14 21:05
you can barely compose the simplest sentence and claim to have a "phd in technology", as if that was even a thing
2019-12-14 19:53
#35
flusha | 
Norway dr_fiji 
Sorry, I am indeed capable of a more sophisticated writing, if that will contribute to reduce your sceptisism, but, given the circumstances under which my comments were written, I prioritized focusing on the content rather than the language. But yes I do indeed have a PhD, although this is hard to prove without jeopardizing my anonymity. I can see that it is confusing with a PhD in technology, given that PhD translates to doctor in philosophy, but such are the terms
2019-12-14 20:09
#26
flusha | 
Norway dr_fiji 
Yes, I agree that you will find smart, intelligent people in all religions. I recommend studying all religions with an open mind and without prejudice about the truth. you will find good people of all religions, and even find evil people who believe in christianity, although they seem to have missed the point. Personally, I think that people have a tendency of defend their own morality, no matter what they do, and that this effect is more pronounced if you do not believe in an objective morality. Also religios people have this problem. Thats why we focus on teaching, in order to make our own moral compass more aligned to Gods will.
2019-12-14 13:51
#30
f0rest | 
Argentina Nawll 
I agree with this statement entirely :).Except i dont think there is something such as "objective morality" there is just no way to make everyone agree 100% on such an abstract of a concept, Therefore you can think of it objectively but that does not mean everyone is goin to agree with your conclusion.
2019-12-14 19:49
objectivity does not rely on everyone agreeing, in fact it would be factual even if nobody agreed with it
2019-12-14 19:55
#33
f0rest | 
Argentina Nawll 
As i said morallity is no 2+2=4 and thats why you cant ever hope to agree with everyone on an objective level, its a human concept and humans are not perfect by any means.
2019-12-14 19:59
can't I just say that objective morality is to minimize suffering?
2019-12-14 20:13
#43
f0rest | 
Argentina Nawll 
I mean i dont necessarily know if morality is only tied to suffering so probably not, and even then suffering itself is also an abstract concept, someone suffering might be someone else's bliss.
2019-12-14 20:32
but objectivity does not mean that everyone has to agree, it just means that it's true. so if it's true that morality is to minimize suffering, it doesn't really matter if someone draws pleasure from suffering because in the end a moral action would be to minimize suffering. let's say that it's objectively true that the earth is round. that is true even though there are some people who seem to think otherwise. it was true even at a time when everyone thought it was flat (if such a time really existed) objective truth does not rely on people's subjective opinions, in fact quite the opposite
2019-12-14 20:38
#54
f0rest | 
Argentina Nawll 
The thing is the reason we know the earth is a geoid is because we know all the variables and cause and effect that leads objects as large as a planet to get that shape, (and because we literally observed it). But we cannot define morality with a 100% accuracy due to the fact that, it in and of itself is intrinsicaly tied to humans and humans are not equal or all that logical to begin with. Some people think is immoral to modify the human genome even if that would actually benefit not only the person but also potentialy everyone around him, as you can see there is no apparent "suffering" in doing that but a lot of people still believe it is immoral to do so.
2019-12-14 20:51
I don't think morality has to be tied to humans, it can be an abstract truth the same way the laws of logic works. If someone thinks it's immoral to change the human genome, they can be wrong. Or they can even be right. But morality can still be objective
2019-12-14 20:56
#74
f0rest | 
Argentina Nawll 
you may be correct but there is a reason morality didn't exist until we gave it a name and a meaning, and also who is to decide then which concept of morality is the absolute correct one? its certainly not me at least :)
2019-12-14 21:12
no, but you can say objective morality is only ever subjective. which is you dissect means that the only way to be moral is to not moralise others. which when put into practice is basically, 'treat others they way you want to be treated'.
2019-12-14 20:38
the way others want to be treated is different from how I want to be treated. the way I want to be treated might be considered immoral by others. if I treat them that way, am I being moral or immoral?
2019-12-14 20:42
that's my point. youll never be able to concretely decide whether something is moral, you can argue for things being more or less moral. but never definitively moral and/or immoral which is why the guy said 'ones suffering may be another's bliss'. this however, is too vague to be implemented in a real/legal way and so you compromise by saying 'treat others how you want to be treated'. because it is aware of the subjectivity of morality and therefore encourages learning and understanding of one another instead of applying overarching moral structures that will inevitably deny the morality of minor demographics. you are arguing for a form of morality that is quite new and influenced by a measure of utilitarianism that imo is not effective at discovering 'objective morality'. a really good example of this is historical perspectives on lying. compare Christian Europe and Confucianist China, to this day we believe that lying and cheating are immoral acts because we argue that it is underhanded and deceitful. While others argue that lying is natural and expected, this approach to lying removes our justification for its immorality, because if everyone expects cheating or lies then it no longer exists as an underhanded or deceitful act, but as a virtue. on the other side, candid behaviour is recommended in the West but looked down up in the places like China and Japan. so tell me, in the case of cheating, who is objectively more moral? and why?
2019-12-14 20:53
objective truths does not depend upon me or anyone else for that matter determining with my subjective perspective what is true or not. it's not for me to decide if lying is always bad, sometimes bad or never bad. let's say that two people are locked in a room and you ask each of them to rate their suffering from 1-10. now, one person tells a lie. if the average amount of suffering increased, then that specific lie in that specific context would be immoral if you start with the assumption that objective morality is to minimize suffering. that doesn't mean that lying is always immoral and much less that I have to decide with my subjective opinion if lying is always immoral.
2019-12-15 08:19
#27
flusha | 
Norway dr_fiji 
A personal story: A refugee used to live in our home for a few months. He had several health problems: - Troubled arm after grenade explotion in africa - Infection in his teeths. He could not chew well, even chewing banana would be somewhat painful. He had visited dentist for initial checkup, and had scheduled apointment for fixing the problems, but it was very expensive, and he had to pay all by himself since he had not been given permission to stay yet. So, we drove to meeting with a preacher which also did pray for sick people. After the preacher had prayed for him, he was clearly disappointed, as he felt no difference. But, the next day, his face was shining in a big smile. In the moring, he had woken up with a lot of goo in the mouth, and the infection was gone, and he chewed hard on a metal spoon to prove that it did not hurt. Also his arm was fixed, he could use it without pain. Some time after that he also helped us carrying heavy boxes and furniture when we moved to another appartment.
2019-12-14 13:58
if pointless shit like this is your only reason to refuse to grow up i have bad news for you.... Human body is able to heal alot over time
2019-12-14 20:40
#61
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Norway Respeckpls 
Ignore him, he literally opened with a rambling about how smart and normal he is because he knows how weak, unscientific and backwards his position is.
2019-12-14 20:58
how can a fucking grown up believe in something that is so blatant obvious a fucking myth.... christianity is a fucking stolen religion made up from different stories nothing about it is unique N O T H I N G i detest religious people...
2019-12-14 20:37
#19
flusha | 
Norway dr_fiji 
I think #2 does often indeed have stronger faith, and even the Bible tells us to be ready to answer for our faith at all times. But, the Bible also tells us to have a big faith, that is a belief that god might to big things. I think maybe #1 may have big faith, because #2 tend to be more impacted by secular view and be less expectant to miracles etc.
2019-12-13 22:22
So I am Christian but also have a university degree and love studying about science and space. What if God is an extra dimensional being not constrained by time but rather something else. This would explain why God is omnipotent and omnipresent. That being said, who is to say our day is one day for God? That's why evolution and creationism can go hand in hand honestly. But idk that's just what I think
2019-12-13 22:27
#73
Russia 1922 
Wow, that sounds like a very interesting theory.
2019-12-14 21:11
man #2 has had all the chances to change faith. He was surely tested more. Maybe he even stopped believing for a moment and questioned Christianity, which is considered a sin. Luke 15:7 : "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent"
2019-12-13 22:55
I AM MUHALLA MUHAMMED MEIKIL SALIM HALAM
2019-12-14 20:11
Imo there is no proof, so every faith is equal
2019-12-14 20:18
dont spread lies please there plenty proof for those who seek the Truth . faith and religious not the same word . How can you know that every faith is equal ? Some people have stronger faith than others so its not equal
2019-12-14 20:25
it's equal since it's not proved. There is the same chance dragons exists as same as god exists (doesn't matter what religion). 0%
2019-12-14 21:01
I agree with dr_fiji answer #19 . I can add from myself that faith is not only the knowledge but also the way you believe and abide the commandments of our God . Stronger u believe and follow in God's word = more faithful you are or in other words stronger your faith is
2019-12-14 20:19
while mankind can rationally argue that man 2 has a stronger faith since it persevered through all his experiences and through tests both external and internal it will be stronger. but this assumes that God will expect you to eloquently describe and justify your faith before being allowed in heaven, which would be ridiculous. These two points show the issue of this question: the ignorance and lacking capabilities of mankind compared to God, which is why I ultimately believe that while you cannot argue for either being more pure or true, you can say that in material world, man 2 would be a better advocate for proselytization than man 1. imo, from Gods perspective, they would both be equal as they would both have complete faith in their god (assuming they abide by all the rules and all the rules are just in the eyes of God, but this point doesn't have much purpose in this theoretical argument but does show the unbridgeable disconnect between humanity/reality and that above us). Furthermore, it is not fault of man 1 (unless he actively avoided engaging in discussion, which in Judaism would not be a good sign as debate is a cornerstone of our faith) that he has not had his faith tested or challenged (either from external or internal forces) and so he cannot be punished for it. so you have to default to the basis of it all and the supposedly the question we are asked before going into heaven. which is- did you have faith? any assessment of the purity and/or strength of ones faith is a matter that is immediately grounded in the physical aspects of our world (features we are impossible to dissociate from). unlike from the perspective of an almighty which would: a) know the individual better then themselves as he is omniscient and also privy to our 'soul' and so would know whether a man's faith was true or not. b) would not be concerned with an individual having a learned approach to his faith as long as the end result is the same, with both men truly being faithful to their God. Now this question becomes different when placed into a historical context and the substantial changes that most religions have been through over the last few thousand years. In such a case, it becomes very easy to argue for the second man being more faithful while the first being viewed as gullible, and even arguably an idolater as he just accepted the first answer given to him (as has happened historically in the catholic church, most notably, with all the shifting in rules). once again however, this is a definitely human perspective and to assume God would have a similar outlook would be arrogant.
2019-12-14 20:35
I think a being that would be omniscient and totally merciful would understand why anyone holds the position they hold and as a result accept them equally. Of course that would include any position, so non-believers or believers of different faiths would be accepted as well. Now of course the god you believe in may not be omniscient or totally merciful, or neither, in which case your question would be more interesting.
2019-12-14 20:38
how can non-believers or believers of different faiths would be accepted as well ? If they decided to not believe by their own choice or second group unfaithful who heard about Christ but still decided to stay in other religious can u explain this to me ?
2019-12-14 20:45
Because a being that is omniscient would know everything about what led anyone to any choice, including the choice of not believing or believing in a different god. If such a being is also totally merciful, then he would not condemn anyone for any of those choices, otherwise that would be a being that does not show mercy to at least some people, and as such it would not be a totally merciful being.
2019-12-14 20:52
In your point we can make conclusion that person should not live faithfully and try their best to abide the commandments of God's word because he anyways will be accepted and forgiven because "being" is totally merciful . This is false . What's future for 2 mans in your opinion who didn't repent at all and never felt sorry for his sins and other man who repented every day for his mistakes? "otherwise that would be a being that does not show mercy to at least some people, and as such it would not be a totally merciful being." = no it's called paying for your unrepented sins my friend. There's Heaven and Hell no 3rd place unfortunately and "being" knows about every wrong step
2019-12-14 21:00
"In your point we can make conclusion that person should not live faithfully and try their best to abide the commandments of God's word because he anyways will be accepted and forgiven because "being" is totally merciful ." You can draw that conclusion if you want, sure, but that's not the only possible conclusion. ------ "This is false ." What is false exactly? Do you mean that the god you believe in is not a totally merciful being? ------ "What's future for 2 mans in your opinion who didn't repent at all and never felt sorry for his sins and other man who repented every day for his mistakes?" I'll reply to how I understood the question, if you think I misunderstood you, feel free to rephrase the question. If you're talking about a totally merciful being, then this being would not punish anyone for any choice, otherwise it would mean that it would not show mercy to at least some person in some cases, which means that it's not a totally merciful being. Of course that would not mean that this being would consider all actions equal, it would only mean that it would not punish anyone for those actions. If you have a problem with that kind of being, that's totally fine, then the god you believe in is not a totally merciful being. ------ "no it's called paying for your unrepented sins my friend." It doesn't matter how you call it. Either the being is totally merciful or it's not totally merciful. If it is, then it would forgive anyone for any action. If it's not, then it would depend on how much mercy this being has and in which situations. ------- "There's Heaven and Hell no 3rd place unfortunately and "being" knows about every wrong step" What about it? Is this omniscient being totally merciful or not?
2019-12-14 21:19
thou shall not believe in bullshit written in a book by people that didn't even know where the sun went at night
2019-12-14 20:55
tis almost 2020 and you still in 1800 mens))))
2019-12-14 20:56
tldr
2019-12-14 20:57
#62
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Australia Slippin_Jimmy 
Thats why imo all that faith in god gets u to heaven is total bs, even if heaven exists its not like people that are faithful in god are the only ones getting there. Lets say that u were born in 3rd world country and never been taught about the god and the relligion and u die. Why someone like that should not go to heaven? Even if its true then god is an asshole. Its not like i believe in god its just something i never understood and never will
2019-12-14 20:59
#65
Russia 1922 
No, I think it's a matter of opinion. I think in God's eye neither would be better because both are devoutly Christian. Now answer my question (I am a reluctant Christian, I guess): Does God damn those who came before Him (of course, they didn't 'come' before Him per se, but they certainly weren't exposed to him)?And if not, wouldn't that mean that whatever deity (Dyeus Phter comes to mind especially, because there is absolutely no way a traditional Indo-European religious practitioner would've been exposed to God, whereas one of Odin/Zeus might've been) they were following would've been a representation of God? Expanding on this, wouldn't any religious philosophies still in the current day still be a representation of a 'creator' of some kind? I don't know why, but the Cosmopolitan religious philosophy makes a lot of sense to me. Is there any reason, in your opinion, why we should be Christians rather than Cosmopolitans?
2019-12-14 21:08
#67
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Turkey TheKaiser 
I think I've heard that researching and providing proofs to your faith in your mind while learning other faiths is better for your faith in the purpose of strengthening the belief. At least in our beliefs, I suppose.
2019-12-14 21:05
#69
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Turkey TheKaiser 
Oh and I am not a Christian, that's why I said in our beliefs.
2019-12-14 21:07
#70
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United Kingdom Lightning_DC_ 
Christian myself, so interesting thread. IMHO I would say you are correct when you suggest that #2 has stronger faith; the Christian/Biblical meaning of faith is not belief in spite of what we know, but because of it (see Hebrews 11:1). In questioning things about life, death and the universe, #2 has sought answers, which is a good thing to do and one that helps strengthen faith; Christianity has to be true for it to be viable and attractive. It is not bad to have doubts and questions, but it is bad to hold them and not seek to resolve or answer them. To say that #1 is a Christian out of chance is, again IMHO, incorrect. God calls everyone, and each individual chooses to answer yes or no. Many people such as myself were introduced to Christianity by our parents, which is a good thing and one I am thankful for. Without going too much into the mind-bending subject of predestination, I would say God chooses those who are saved, and those who are saved choose God. #1 chose to be a Christian just as much as #2 did, even if they have a very different knowledge base and made their choice by considering a different list of factors. Having weaker or less developed Christian faith does not disqualify someone from God's kingdom or disappoint God; each of us is on a journey of faith where we are hopefully growing. God delights in all those who choose him, and wants to see each of us grow, as none of us will have perfect faith or live perfectly on Earth. It is difficult for humans to judge if one Christian is a "better" Christian than another, as again, no-one is perfect. #1 may perform more deeds of faith than #2 (e.g. sharing God's Word with those who do not know, helping the needy, serving their Church), so even if their faith is not as strong as #2 they may be doing more work for the Kingdom. Each individual also struggles with their own sins, and it is dangerous territory to class or rank different sins based on our human morality and then suggest someone is a better Christian because "their sins are less frequent/bad" and vice versa. Sorry for long answer :)
2019-12-14 21:07
hey, as an agnostic raised in a semi-religious (jewish) household. id go to sunday school, had a barmitzvah and went on jewish camps but never really had that initial faith, and my parents didn't care what religion I followed as long as I was raised with a faith. I wonder whats your position as a Christian of clear faith towards my outlook (comment 44)? I just discussed this with my father, who believes in God wholeheartedly, and he disagreed with your first point but agreed with the rest of it. but he disagreed with my belief that you can make a case for one being more faithful than the other, if you don't attempt to take the stance of God.
2019-12-14 23:26
#83
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United Kingdom Lightning_DC_ 
You raised interesting points in #44, and honestly I don't really disagree with much, if anything, that you wrote. You are especially right when you say that matters of faith cannot be fully known and understood by humans, although one can only benefit from discussing them in a frank and respectful manner, and having your views tested (I would not normally expect either of these things on HLTV forums, but hey, nice to be surprised sometimes :) ) The key point, which I think we agree on, is whether or not both men's Christian faith is equally valid in the eyes of God with respect to being part of his family and receiving citizenship in Heaven, to which I would state unequivocally, yes.
2019-12-15 01:07
cheers and thank you for the feedback! im always interested in what believers think with regards to assumptions made on behalf of God* and more and more I find that the prevalence of dogma is overplayed for the average believer along with an increasingly nuanced approach to the relationship between physics and metaphysics. *which unfortunately as a child turned me away from God completely due to what I perceived as the arrogance of institutionalised religion in assuming familiarity, intimacy and knowledge of God, with Judaism being the only one I still respected, probably due to my childhood and familiarity, because discussion and deliberation is one of the foundations of the religious structure. have a good one. ngl I enjoy engaging in idiotic and inflammatory discussions, usually the only reason I come on hltv (this thread is 1/100000000), but like you said, nice to be surprised.
2019-12-15 01:24
#85
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United Kingdom Lightning_DC_ 
Thank you :) I fully understand how "religion" can actually put people off religion, when they see anything from apathy to arrogance or other unpleasant characteristics/actions. If you have questions about Christianity I'm happy to give answering them a shot :)
2019-12-15 01:41
Fatih best cs player of all time
2019-12-14 23:28
#81
OCEAN | 
United States KKonian 
Santa Claus is a religion. Being lied to saying that santa is watching and only gives presents to good kids
2019-12-14 23:31
#87
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Canada ProvexPyker 
They should learn to adapt to the evidence if they think their god is right. You can believe the evidence and still have faith. Basically, if their faith is so strong, they should learn to accept the new evidence and still have faith that their god is right
2019-12-15 01:49
#89
Poland $o$ 
Who cars
2019-12-15 08:25
Airborne
1.25
FURY
3.82
HellRaisers
1.43
Axis
2.77
DreamEaters
2.79
Wisla Krakow
1.42
Bet value
Amount of money to be placed
Winning
Odds total ratio
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