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Anti cheat at tier 1 events
Germany Boombl4_Top_1_Womenizer 
Honestly, I'm not saying anyone ist cheating but why are hosts still Not providing hardware-based Anticheat-devices like the ones which gameref supplies? I mean, it's obvious that VAC or ESEA are utter trash that are Not even able to detect cheap public cheats like EZfrags, that costs like 50-100 $. It is obvious that cheating on lan is easily possible so why don't they decrease the probability of cheating by increasing their AC possibilities
2020-02-17 16:11
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2020-02-17 16:13
2 replies
only "clean" tournament was the one in which kaspersky anti cheat had its first run. (starladder major) check out the player stats there for some indications on who might be fishy :)
2020-02-21 13:50
1 reply
Yes the first tourament where Liquid stopped doing all their BS plays, quite expected tbh. I believe S1mple also played poorly, however unlike Liquid he was pretty shaky before the tournament, where they were dominant up until it.
2020-02-22 12:34
Yeah, what to say. Customer made cheats cost between 10 and 70 k If you believe what coders are telling at defcon for example. That's a business itself with a lot of money involved. Also: imagine the image damage of valve and hosts If it came out that some pros have been cheating... We'll never know but I believe it's part of the scene
2020-02-17 16:24
4 replies
+1 flusha cheater
2020-02-17 16:28
3 replies
I'm 100% convinced he did it in some point of his career
2020-02-17 16:30
2 replies
bro he just lifted his mouse
2020-02-17 18:28
1 reply
2020-02-17 18:56
u cant cehat at back sekured serbers
2020-02-17 16:25
2 replies
2020-02-17 16:53
Yeah, I heard this "back" is pretty good.
2020-02-17 19:27
my theory is that in 2k14 when a private hack was leaked (smn kqly etc.) to valve, valve realised that they will never achieve safety in their technical outdated engine. from there on, there are 2 possibilities: 1) valve gave this information to the tournament organisers and they all together agreed that they continue like that, because they are all dead within a few weeks if it becomes public. keep the amout of viewers up, get the easy cash from crazy investors, like Tour de France. Everyone was happy before top drivers got busted, money was fine, the whole world was watching when the doped guys had their duels in late 90s. 2) valve didnt share the informations and they give lists and anti cheat advices/technics to organzisers, knowing that they wont catch anybody I think it`s 1). I mean EVERY market, EVERY serious, professional competition has a neutral, moral 3. PARTY instance without conflicts of interest, that controles the competition and takes anti cheat actions. CSGO hasnt. Why? It`s a multi million bizz and all we have is that valve and organizers say "everything fair in my competition! come watch here! come trade skins!"
2020-02-17 16:48
25 replies
Name one fps game cheat free
2020-02-17 16:54
+1000 its 1) without a doubt. If money is involved, especially this much money, things like this happen, basically human behaviour tbh
2020-02-17 16:56
Once it became clear that TO's can't be trusted to reliably secure machines Valve didn't really have many options. It's not so easy to say "We're going to run everything" , and take full control of CSGO's competitive circuit. If Valve did that perfectly and ran every major themselves 100% secure, players at a customer level would still be getting screwed by cheaters in pubs and qualifiers. Also there would be a chance to mess lots of stuff up, making the community angry or hurting their reputation Valve acknowledged that as long as players have physical access to their machines they can spoof. This suggests they seriously considered cloud computing to get CSGO to run off of Valve owned machines via streaming. That way cheaters would only get to work with the data clients were originally intended to receive. This would still be possible to cheat , though. There would still be the kind of cheat that reads colours straight from the monitors driver and responds by aiming like kjearbye and simple - they would undoubtedly trigger condemnation from an overwatch-trained review algorithm , but what happens is these players actually sue Valve saying "we didn't cheat, you can't prove it" .. In 2016 the European Union adopted new data-protection rules that include a legal right to an explanation of decisions made by algorithms. Valve ultimately has the same problem that other big corporations have, explaining why did an AI make the decision it made? It's very hard from an engineering perspective to develop a framework of communication for the same AI model trained on millions of hours of data to explain it's decision making process to a judge or jury or people who never even heard of counterstrike. It's possible to build such a framework, though. Even it would be possible to double check it's accuracy, have a player sit down in front of Valve and get 100 frags, if they can not demonstrate the same or similar parameters established through overwatch than they must be at least a different person than who owns the account and would deserve some ban. Even in 1000 frags, on a simple map like aim_botz , it would be possible for AI to compare a performance to a profile built over multiple games to determine if it is the same person playing. Valve will undoubtedly make steps forward, it's their job after all and they may be as qualified to do it as any other company +care more. If enough time passes they will be able to contract third party developers to handle the "black box AI" problem for them , then go full-YOLO and let overwatch AI ban everybody. That is assuming the world doesn't end before that happens.
2020-02-17 18:12
1 reply
Very interessting post. Thanks
2020-02-17 18:38
1.) makes definitely the most sense. The money in this business is huge and hosts would get broke if anything came out
2020-02-17 18:06
very unlikely, this is a typical conspiracy fallacy. the amount of people involved in this conspiracy and their conflicting interests plus the long time period make it extremely unlikely for it to be true. e.g. there are a ton of people that got angry/ended their career/want to become famous that would just make this public. E.g. why wouldn't the IBP guys either blackmail Valve to get unbanned OR make this public? how about journalists? how about ex employees of orgs? ex valve employees that moved to competitors? and so on
2020-02-17 20:51
19 replies
naive... 1) there dont have to be involved tons of people for things like that. and wtf ibp ???? 2) it happens every day. boeing, vw, libor, theranos, pharmaceutical etc... fraud over years and decades everywhere, and they are regulated and controled by 3.parties, in contrast to valve and TOs.
2020-02-18 02:31
3 replies
and you know about all those scandals because they came out as large conspiracies don't work. there is no reasonable explanation why and how this could be kept a secret for so long.
2020-02-18 02:52
2 replies
keep believing
2020-02-18 08:13
1 reply
"everyone that doesn't believe me conspiracy is naive" okay
2020-02-18 13:13
simply cuz the iBP guys didnt cheat and didnt know about it. remember it was all notable EU pros/semi-pros that got banned in that time period. also only the top echelon of the organization have to know about this. maybe a few guys from valve involved and the pro in question. lets use flusha for example, not saying he cheats but he has already won a major and was a top player for some time. in that scenario valve probably gave him the red light on cheating but didnt ban him or it would destroy the scene. its not beyond valve to do something like this since they used iBP, fyx0 and friends as a scapegoat to act like they give a shit about match fixing. they dont. ive benefited tons from fixed asian matches and its not like its a hard thing to prove. some betting sites r in on it too and the most they do is pull the match out if things start becoming too suspicious. valve dont give a fuck tho as long as it isnt too obvious so the fixing continues and teams know this
2020-02-18 08:36
14 replies
that's still hundreds of people and would have come out
2020-02-18 13:15
13 replies
first of all the number definitely isnt in the hundreds. id guess around a dozen for top tier including valve employees. also it hasnt happened for asian matchfixing and that i would guess is around a hundred or more. i dont know of anyone who snitched and even if they did, i wonder if valve would even give a crap about it cuz if they did a proper investigation most likely they would have discovered matchfixing. like i said, iBP and co were scapegoats probably just like kqly, emilio, smn, villig were for tier 1 cheaters who have already won significant achievements and were told by valve to stop but cant be banned or it would ruin the integrity of the whole pro scene
2020-02-21 07:51
12 replies
it's easily hundreds. why would e.g. faze be okay with astralis cheating? with all the employees and over the years it's very unlikely to cover up. you are delusional
2020-02-21 13:46
11 replies
as a casual viewer u have no clue about things that go on behind the scenes. thats ok. i used the match fixing examples to show u how not everything is as they seem and that ur wrong about ppl snitching. u seemed to have ignored everything i said tho. and to clarify i meant if the cheating scenario were as i described, its likely that only top tier tenured valve employees would know about it and resolve it with each player individually. the teams themselves dont have to be involved. in csgo, most cases of matchfixing multiple players to the whole team and other benefactors and collaborators r involved. yet even then there have been no leaks thus far. kind of destroys ur argument doesnt it? and just so u know pro players have publicly accused other pros of cheating. u seem to think the entire scene is in cohorts w/ each other but that isnt the case. the evidence lies w/ valve for VAC bans and unless the ban activates, which it wont for the reasons i described previously, everything is just fruitless speculation no matter the position u take. teams/players may suspect somethings up, but unless theres concrete proof is willingly provided by valve, it would be best for them to turn a blind eye cuz it would be damaging to their PR if they were to flat out accuse w/out proof now do i actually believe in my top tier cheating speculations and how valve making compromises? not necessarily. but i do believe it is possible and the most likely scenario given their stance towards matchfixing and their methods to save face by banning iBP and co. also my arguments mainly rely on my knowledge of matchfixing. i can provide evidence in the forms of trades and possibly old chat logs but i wont outright expose anyone. just enough to show u that this stuff is indeed happening. ask me to PM if u wanna see
2020-02-22 06:29
10 replies
as a delusional conspiracy clown you have no clue about things that go on behind the scenes. thats ok. again, this would involved hundreds of people and it makes no sense that everyone would be in on it.
2020-02-22 11:21
9 replies
wow. do u have a reading disability? obviously not, so why bother responding if u arent going to read? u can do better than that. i have responded to all ur points and even offered to show behind the scenes evidence to back up my own theories. at least try to correctly refute me instead of stating something that i didnt even claim
2020-02-22 11:53
8 replies
> do u have a reading disability? ironic considering that you keep spamming long rants while ignoring that the number of people involved makes it very unlikely. your whole argument is just the standard conspiracy fallacy. why would so many people cross so many years all be part of this conspiracy? many of those people even have conflicting interests. again, why would faze be okay with a small org like Astralis dominating the scene, essentially costing them a ton of money? is astralis paying off faze? and that's just two teams.
2020-02-22 12:05
7 replies
if ur not going to read #94, im not gonna bother responding anymore. ur not asking anything new that i havent already responded to and provided counterexamples against
2020-02-22 12:29
3 replies
And you dont think any ex pros would ever want to expose q teammate they didnt like or opponent just for clout?
2020-02-22 12:38
1 reply
sure they can and that has happened before even back in cs 1.6. but they would need proof. in top tier csgo, proof beyond reasonable doubt has to come from valve themselves. if top valve officials r in on it, theres nothing to be done
2020-02-22 12:48
all you do is make up dumb shit without any evidence. e.g. > its likely that only top tier tenured valve employees would know about it and resolve it with each player individually. that's not likely, that's extremely unlikely and makes no sense. e.g. obviously TOs would have to be in on this too and all the admins at events, IT at orgs and so on too. also you keep bringing up match fixing which isn't really the topic.
2020-02-22 12:53
How should a team like FaZe even prove that someone on Astralis is cheating? Should they open Mouse and keyboard by talking out the screws and check whether there is anything suspicious? If you want to cheat, you can do it. The only threat would be TOs or valve saying they have some Kind of evidence and they will use it against the regarding player
2020-02-22 12:35
2 replies
You don't have to be able to prove it to say it. If for example a player is kicked he could want to expose his teammates.
2020-02-22 12:39
why would valve start some kind of exclusive conspiracy with astralis, which wasn't even a big org? also other pros have already complained about astralis concerning the "smoke bug" and lots of pros used to make statements about fnatic / flusha during their era. seems really unlikely that they all remain quite yet know, or at least believe, that astralis is cheating. also, most importantly, there is no evidence for this conspiracy lol
2020-02-22 13:00
Germany DEBlL
im pretty sure that you cant cheat on vac secured servers
2020-02-17 16:50
How the fuck you are going to cheat on a lan event if there are admins looking behind their shoulder direct to the players screen
2020-02-17 16:53
2 replies
If pros cheat its nothing comparable to cheats you might know out of mm etc. slight information-seeking is enough to have a significant advantage. some signals trough sound wouldnt ever be recognized by any admin.
2020-02-17 16:59
And how do you think an admin could possibly see for example a tiny little 5 pixel aimlock ?? Completely unrealistic. Plus the admin would have to call a tier 1 player out without having any proof, also unrealistic
2020-02-17 18:08
As long as pro csgo makes so much money for organizers etc they couldnt give a shit. A busted tier 1 player would damage the scene so they would rather let them cheat as long as the moneyflow continues sadly
2020-02-17 16:53
Europe loonek4
ezfrags get detected every 2 months tho
2020-02-17 16:55
1 reply
Once in a while it does but EZfrags is literally one of the shittiest and cheapest cheats out there LUL
2020-02-17 18:09
Sweden Trkmag
Finally a sensible cheating thread. People are naive if they think people doesn’t cheat at big lans. The fact that players still get to bring their own mice/keyboards (you can easily install cheating software after the TO has had their check) is ridiculous. Your suggestion is great, I would love for a TO to finally take cheating serious.
2020-02-17 17:11
cheating on lan would only be able to use aimlock or smth like that and thats just to improve ur aim and get a tiny bit of knowledge where a guy is so i think the risk is simply to big for the payout since at all t1 events a guy is behind the team seeing their screens etc but early on people couldve cheated
2020-02-17 17:19
Back in early 2000 I lived near the gaming house of a CS tier 1 team and Myself I used to attend regional qualify for CPL, eswc, wcg. So I was never a pro player but I was well know in the community and very often I was invited to this tier 1 team gaming house to scrim with them so they had someone to pratice with. Okay, why Im saying that? Im pretty sure 99% of users here NEVER played against a tier 1 team... okay boomer whats your point ? Well when you play against them it feels they are cheating but they are not, they are just THAT good... those players would stick in the gaming house for 12 hours per day during the week, on friday to sunday they used to play nights in a row sleeping like from 6:00 to 12:00, so OF COURSE they get that good. Okay now I dont know how things are handled in events nowadays but I know from a collegue of mine that on League of Legends, they have the equipment sealed brand new and the player has to use that mouse/kb until the end of the event. Anyway, I dont believe they cheat in lan
2020-02-17 17:27
9 replies
"Okay, why Im saying that? Im pretty sure 99% of users here NEVER played against a tier 1 team... okay boomer whats your point ? Well when you play against them it feels they are cheating but they are not, they are just THAT good." That was never in question and is not the point of the thread. Sure pros at tier 1 are great, but so are professional sportsmen. The main question is: Is it possible to cheat on lan and is it viable. And the answer is: yes it is. "they have the equipment sealed brand new and the player has to use that mouse/kb until the end of the event." It's not the case in CSGO
2020-02-17 18:16
8 replies
So basically you are saying Astralis is cheating because I really doubt that a pro will loose a match using cheating
2020-02-17 18:26
7 replies
"So basically you are saying Astralis is cheating" I didn't say anyone is definitely cheating and I didn't even write the word "Astralis" in this thread, so the answer is no. I'm saying it is definitely possible to cheat and that valve and TOs should put more emphasis on decreasing the possibilities of cheating.
2020-02-17 18:30
6 replies
If no one is cheating why bother with that ? You know that is impossible to create an fps cheat free, right ? They will put more money and 2 months after that a new cheat will appear
2020-02-17 18:45
5 replies
"If no one is cheating why bother with that ? " I didn't say noone is cheating as well ;) Again, to clarify my point: I will not call out anyone here, because I simply don't know it for sure (by means of evidence). But I'm convinced there has been cheating in tier 1 CS. Independent of what I think (whether there is or has been cheating in tier 1), the key aspect is that it is possible and as you said with this statement "They will put more money and 2 months after that a new cheat will appear" the software based AC which we have now is not a proper solution. So I what like Tos and valve to either try out different AC (like hardware based ones) or to make the rules more strict (no own gear)
2020-02-17 18:48
4 replies
So if you convinced that tier 1 is cheating that point out Astralis again.
2020-02-17 18:57
3 replies
What do you mean? Saying that I'm convinced there has been cheating in tier 1 CS does definitely not imply that Astralis is cheating. Your comment does not make sense
2020-02-17 19:01
2 replies
Astralis is the team that is constantly winning so by logic they are cheating or are you saying that there are cheaters on tier 1 and they are loosing ? LOL
2020-02-17 21:17
1 reply
I'm saying it is possible to cheat at T1 events and that there should be more effort to prevent this. Not more, not less
2020-02-17 21:46
you cant cheat on vac secured servers
2020-02-17 18:11
look what technologies we have, saying its not poissible to cheat on lan ios dumb asf
2020-02-17 18:25
3 replies
Sorry, but this is plainly wrong. There are yearly conferences discussing cheating possibilities, e.g. defcon. There are hundrets of clips explaining how, I will just give you one talk of defcon 2017 as a reference If I was a pro and I wanted to cheat, ofc I wouldn't pull a forsaken move and download a .rar file, open it and execute some software. I would just execute it from a microchip in my mouse or keyboard.
2020-02-17 18:28
2 replies
see tour de france 200 ways of doping banned, they always find a way.
2020-02-17 18:29
1 reply
We are talking about E-sports, and in particular CS:GO. The doping control at Tour de france is good, yet you still have people doing it and getting caught in several sport competitions and ofc there are also people who don't get busted.
2020-02-17 18:32
i mean its already a problem that many ppl use performance enhancing stimulants at this events. so probably also cheating.
2020-02-17 18:46
1 reply
Yeah, but this is a different topic. I mean, we don't need to discuss that Methylphenidate (Ritalin) or D-Amphetamine (Adderall) are a thing, but this is impossible to check.
2020-02-17 18:50
They will never ban a tier1 player from a top team. It will kill the image of pro cs. Instead a couple times a year they ban a couple tier 3 player so they can say LoOkAnTiChEaTwOrKs.
2020-02-17 18:50
3 replies
Exactly, LUL and forsaken wasn't even caught by software based AC but he got busted because an admin saw something suspicious which is basically an embarassment for VAC and ESEA AC because he was one of those who really used EZfrags.exe to cheat. This is like a drug test that cannot even detect a bunch of coke that you took right before the test.
2020-02-17 18:53
1 reply
it was an ESL event so assuming the AC was "ESL Wire" client
2020-02-18 02:46
wasn't kqly a tier 1 player?
2020-02-18 13:36
Interessting posts in this thread. I cannot really tell if hardware based AC is already developed enough to use it in competitions. But what I don't get: Why don't they just provide the gear (Mouse, Keyboard) for the players?? I mean this is not a financial problem at all and it's also not difficult to implement. This would definitely be an easy possibility to prevent cheating.
2020-02-17 18:58
4 replies
Yeah, don't ask me. I wonder about that, too. Easiest way to prevent cheating, but I guess a lot of players wouldn't agree on that
2020-02-17 19:03
3 replies
it would be as simple as asking the players what gear they use and giving them a brand new/clean from any kind of cheats mouse & keyboard
2020-02-18 08:42
2 replies
Some have custom mouse
2020-02-18 09:37
1 reply
then inspect the gear for cheats before matches
2020-02-18 09:38
"Game:ref is built on the open-source Arduino platform" LUL
2020-02-17 19:03
1 reply
This was ONE possibility. Also, gameref are afaik not the only ones who provide such devices. There are several other options to decrease the probability of cheating like what #52 said
2020-02-17 19:05
Libya OG_TOP_1
they are playing on vac secure servers
2020-02-17 20:46
4 replies
That's the problem,cause VAC and ESEA AC are utter Trash
2020-02-17 20:48
3 replies
Libya OG_TOP_1
you cannot cheat on vac secure servers
2020-02-17 20:55
2 replies
2020-02-17 21:02
1 reply
you cannot cheat on vac secure servers
2020-02-18 02:53
Subroza and kjaerbye still playing so... I think they don't care anymore
2020-02-18 03:11
The day we have working anticheat is the day this game will blow up so much that there will be stadiums filled with ppl watching the game live :)
2020-02-18 08:36
There is no public cheats that works on esea? I just visited ezfrags site and their private cheats costs 10 usd not 50+? And its not even private and its just a copy paste cheat. Vac is shit tho, server sided acs never good
2020-02-18 10:35
Dosia | 
Russia Rapu
I heard that Kaspersky Lab makes its own anti-cheat. I think they can make a good product.
2020-02-21 07:58
I think, crowd cheating is enough. So LAN is trash. Real pros play good in online like AMKtares
2020-02-21 08:14
2020-02-22 07:04
China SwooksarV2
We all know you cant cheat on VAC secured servers
2020-02-22 07:12
ropz | 
Czech Republic y0fl0w
just let TOs provide gear for each player - which is only used and given out in matches. mouse and keyboard maybe around 150$ per player, 750$ per team - no problem for big events with 250k$+ prize pool fuck players who use outdated gear or if they insist on it, let them provide gear to TOs which will be checked and only handed out for the officials match pcs without any internet access - problem solved
2020-02-22 07:15
1 reply
This +1 Easiest solution, and whoever complains can just gtfo
2020-02-22 12:36
All competitive FPS games have tons of cheaters it isn't shocking.
2020-02-22 07:15
why dont they just scan computers likes of forsaken ez catch
2020-02-22 12:50
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