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Jamppis lawsuit
valde | 
Sweden meistr0 
dbltap.com/posts/jamppi-csgo-lawsuit-val.. Scroll down and read it. I hope he wins it. Even though i dislike cheaters (not saying that he cheated) i think they deserve a second chance and not a life time ban from Valve events. Same with throwers. Obviously they deserve a punishment, but "life" as punishment is brutal.
2020-04-02 18:59
Topics are hidden when running Sport mode.
april fools spotted
2020-04-02 19:00
#3
valde | 
Sweden meistr0 
Hey Jermans... Its 2nd of April.
2020-04-02 19:01
jerman brain KEKW
2020-04-02 20:13
Imagine making a fun of a nation's intelligence misspelling it and writting "KEKW", did u laugh like goofy afterwards? Cuz if you did that'd be just perfect!
2020-04-02 20:25
nt netherlands KEKW
2020-04-02 20:26
You mean neanderthalslands?
2020-04-02 20:31
very good. now go out and play with ice cuz thats the only thing you have up there
2020-04-03 11:48
retarded russian who didn't have any education. that's definitely not the dutch flag
2020-04-03 12:28
+1 lmao russki and swede
2020-04-03 15:37
you must be joking
2020-04-03 14:27
hahah nt hltv newfag
2020-04-02 20:29
Did I really just get called a hltv newfag? And nt for what? What a pathetic creature holy shit
2020-04-02 20:47
nt hltv newfag I am not racist, but I dont like JERMAN
2020-04-03 07:41
#91
 | 
China SwooksarV2 
Ok simple. Very cool.
2020-04-03 08:22
#95
 | 
Sweden extra_cheese 
to be fair you are new, and ur also slow in the head lmao
2020-04-03 08:27
2015-10-26
2020-04-03 11:48
#163
 | 
Sweden extra_cheese 
thats new imo
2020-04-03 11:49
So, you have to be on HLTV for a whole fucking decade to not be considered new???
2020-04-03 13:16
#282
 | 
Sweden extra_cheese 
at least
2020-04-03 22:15
You seem to be super cool and hyper intelligent! Your elementary school degree certainly proves so!
2020-04-03 12:46
hahha keep using cool words jerman defenwedwrr
2020-04-03 08:36
jerman sjw
2020-04-03 12:01
#232
 | 
Finland coolermannen 
+1
2020-04-03 14:08
+1
2020-04-03 11:02
#2
HenryG | 
Finland no_man 
he wont
2020-04-02 19:01
#4
valde | 
Sweden meistr0 
Why not?
2020-04-02 19:02
How's he gonna demand a private company to allow him to play at their events?
2020-04-03 09:29
#114
valde | 
Sweden meistr0 
"Demand". Thing is, we dont know if its his friend that got that VAC ban, clearly it seems like that is the case, maybe he can prove it having his friend step forward and tell the truth, maybe he can argue in court that life ban is a insane sentence because of you cheating in a game. Read his lawsuit.
2020-04-03 10:54
Valve can also just say that u shud read the TOS which clearly states that account sharing is not allowed & that you are fully responsible of your account, hence Jamppi cheating =//= his friend cheating on his ”old account”
2020-04-03 11:24
#143
valde | 
Sweden meistr0 
Tell me, how many 14 year olds reads or understand a T.O.S? Give him a minor ban for account sharing/selling (6m - 1 year) but banning someone for life because (if its the case) his friend cheated on his old acc is brutal.
2020-04-03 11:32
Im not saying lifetime ban is the right choice lmao. What I am saying is that valve doesnt give a jack shit cuz they clearly have stated out the rules which Jamppi has not been able to follow. E. Clearly cant be ”that old” acc cuz it links to his current acc either by hwid or some other unique id.
2020-04-03 11:39
#152
valde | 
Sweden meistr0 
Isnt s1mple VAC banned as well lol? I mean
2020-04-03 11:43
ESL banned.
2020-04-03 11:49
#168
valde | 
Sweden meistr0 
Well, for cheating
2020-04-03 11:51
+1
2020-04-03 11:54
Esl banned. Different thing. Esl actually had some brains and gave only a minor ban.
2020-04-03 11:49
#170
valde | 
Sweden meistr0 
Ye, but i mean for cheating
2020-04-03 11:51
Yes but its still different thing cuz he was never vac-banned so Valve did nothing.
2020-04-03 11:53
#249
 | 
Finland Goble81 
Different and "different". I don't understand how people who scream that "12 years young kid who didn't read Valve's user agreement about selling an account deserves a lifetime ban" can say 30 seconds later that "All cheaters deserve lifetime ban, but s1mple is good because he didn't cheat in Valve servers, he cheated only in ESL servers, so he is a saint and not really a cheater". Or he cheated in CS1.6, but we are now playing CSGO, so he is not really a CS cheater? Could I be a car thief if I'm driving BMW, but not if I'm driving VW? Now what kind of über humane logic is that? We all agree that cheaters deserve a punishment (account sharing to boost ELO, cheat code, selling an account, whatever). But Valve's behavior is too strict and one sided "black box". Lifetime ban for kids under 16 breaking rules in non-PRO-games is not really humane way of thinking (I'm now speaking in general, not just Jamppi case). They do deserve a punishment, but not lifetime bans. Semi-PRO and PRO-tournaments are a bit different story. On the other hand. Doesn't CSGO user agreement state that the game is 18+ (or in some regions 16+)? Therefore we all are cheaters and we deserve lifetime ban from all CSGO servers? Right?
2020-04-03 16:05
Where did I say Jamppi deserves lifetime ban? Lmao. All I said is that Valve has every right to give him perma-ban if they choose to, not that he deserves one. Vac ban is not the same as Esl one. Esl actually has some sense and bans for a period of time unlike Vac, so they are different.
2020-04-03 19:23
He agreed to the TOS. It's his job as a consumer to read through it and understand what it means before agreeing. Age doesn't matter.
2020-04-03 11:46
#182
valde | 
Sweden meistr0 
Mhm, so you yourself sit and read each and ever T.O.S that is 13 pages long filled with lines and lines of text? Literally no one does this. Did you read CSGO T.O.S the first time you started CSGO?
2020-04-03 12:02
"Literally no one does this." That doesn't mean that they shouldn't. I don't do it either, but I don't complain if I am punished for breaking them.
2020-04-03 12:06
#187
valde | 
Sweden meistr0 
"Complain". I wouldnt call Jamppis actions rn "complaining".
2020-04-03 12:15
What would you call it then?
2020-04-03 12:19
#190
valde | 
Sweden meistr0 
A "Last resort".. i guess to see if hes gonna be unbanned.
2020-04-03 12:20
#218
 | 
Serbia Freeman021 
It will still fail, he breached the TOS, period.
2020-04-03 13:44
#226
kaamos | 
Finland Nedi21 
Valve does not require any personal identification while creating steam account, and as he has not used his own credit cards, it is valve who is assuming that the person behind the account is jamppi in the first place. And as their tos states the vac ban is for the account not for the person, and as their major rules states that if the person has been caught cheating, he will not be eligble to participate in valve events, this requires identification on the actual person who has cheated. By eu law (gdpr) Valve is forced to release any personal information they have on jamppi, meaning that if they can identify the person behind the vac ban they need to release the information they have collected for him. This is for the reason that he can argue that on the time of cheating occured he could have been doing something else. I know it is very unlikely that jamppi will win the case, but the lawsuit was still interesting as people just assume that the TOS is somehow completely binding, it can also be illegal to have such terms in EU where they sell their game. I'm sure if you are caught cheating in offline tournaments they have right to ban you forever, but as they dont really require identifications on online games it is extremely hard for them to say who was cheating, and thus deny the right to participate.
2020-04-03 14:02
If there is hwid match or any kind of other ”legitimate” connection its already enough proof. Plus Jamppi kinda fucked himself by already stating out that it is indeed his ”old” account so gg.
2020-04-03 19:27
#275
kaamos | 
Finland Nedi21 
Yea hwid is probably something they try to argue would prove innocent also :) He did admit creating it i think. Or that he sold it etc.
2020-04-03 20:25
#116
 | 
Finland jUPPE! 
Because private companies that offer public service cant discriminate.
2020-04-03 10:58
#123
 | 
United Kingdom Hammondo 
Against cheaters they can.
2020-04-03 11:05
And Jamppi isnt a cheater
2020-04-03 11:15
#186
 | 
United Kingdom Hammondo 
He was banned for cheating.
2020-04-03 12:08
No he wasnt
2020-04-03 12:48
#200
 | 
United Kingdom Hammondo 
Yes he was.
2020-04-03 12:50
Did you even read the lawsuit?
2020-04-03 13:19
#208
 | 
United Kingdom Hammondo 
Yes, hes banned for cheating. He might claim it wasn't him and he sold his account, but hes banned for cheating. There are no VAC bans for anything but cheating, thats what a VAC ban is.
2020-04-03 13:23
He isnt banned for cheating. An account he sold is banned for cheating.
2020-04-03 13:24
Well isn't that what all the cheaters has said since 1.3 ? "I didnt cheat i loaned my account to friend / I sold my account" I have heard this excuse more times then i can remember.
2020-04-03 13:34
And you think Jamppi would lie in court? He probably needs that friend to confess that he cheated with his account so lying would backfire.
2020-04-03 13:40
If said friend comes forth and says that he cheated on that account, How do we know that he isn't lying? It wont be enough, just a tale. And people not lying in court ? You cute boy :> Everrrybody lies in court even the lawyers
2020-04-03 13:42
Who should I believe more? A guy who tells in court that he didnt cheat and his friend confirms it, or you who say that Jamppi for sure cheated because other people have done so aswell
2020-04-03 13:46
#234
 | 
United Kingdom Hammondo 
Valve doesn't have to believe either.
2020-04-03 14:09
#231
 | 
United Kingdom Hammondo 
Yea but valve have no reason to believe him, so hes banned for cheating.
2020-04-03 14:08
Of course they can when players break the rules
2020-04-03 13:11
#212
 | 
Finland jUPPE! 
Maybe. But currently we don't know whether Jamppi broke any rules since Valve haven't said or responded anything.
2020-04-03 13:25
It's against the rules to cheat and to sell steam accounts, so he probably did
2020-04-03 13:57
#227
 | 
Finland jUPPE! 
Maybe. We don't know yet what kind of evidence Valve has of the cheating.
2020-04-03 14:05
>evidence I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it's probably the vac ban
2020-04-03 16:43
#251
 | 
Finland jUPPE! 
Then Valve is fucked if that's all they have. I would have thought that they have somekind of ip-address or similar login data that ties Jamppi to the cheating account at the time when the actual cheating happened.
2020-04-03 16:48
Rofl, they're not fucked. You can't play in a major when you're vac banned. It's that simple
2020-04-03 16:56
Jamppi is not VAC banned. The account which has at one point in time belonged to Jamppi is. That doesn't make it Jamppi's account though.
2020-04-03 16:58
Except he already stated out that it is his account? Lmao.
2020-04-03 19:28
"According to the summon, in 2015 Olkkonen created a gaming account, which is now banned from VAC, during the game night he organized at home, ie LAN. Olkkonen has been 14 years old at the time. Olkkonen bought a CS game for the account with his parents' credit card and permission. Olkkonen had sold and handed over the game account that evening to his minor friend, who participated in the LAN. The gaming account received a VAC ban in November 2015." is.fi/digitoday/esports/art-200000645887..
2020-04-03 19:44
So? Its still his account no matter what he says. There is a link between him & the account, probably on hwid base.
2020-04-03 20:04
In general, it's not your account if it's not in your possession. Of course there is some kind of a link but you can have such a link without owning the account so I don't know what that means. Anyway this is irrelevant since they're not arguing the ownership of the account or the ban details but the fact that a lifetime ban is too much.
2020-04-03 20:28
I agree on that part for sure, but Valve being Valve they probs wont give a flying fuck.
2020-04-03 22:11
Yes he is vac banned, that's why he will never play a major. Doesn't matter if he sold his account.
2020-04-03 20:37
I believe he will play on a major, Valve will likely overturn that rule.
2020-04-03 20:39
This is why the lawsuit is made so that it is within the Finnish Consumer Protection Act and thus will be processed by the Finnish court system. Wise decision.
2020-04-03 14:16
i hope him and his family and all of his descendants are in eternal debt to valve
2020-04-02 19:03
csgo f2p tho
2020-04-02 19:05
this is not murica
2020-04-02 19:31
#46
JW | 
Canada sexiestuser 
lulw
2020-04-02 20:00
#79
Europe Eddz 
what a sad life you live
2020-04-02 21:17
#138
OCEAN | 
Reunion 1iquser 
should we tell him?
2020-04-03 11:29
he will never win obviously
2020-04-02 19:04
#40
 | 
Germany LuzZ_ 
have you read the article? He might not get compensation, but with the case being under the jurisdiction of european law I could very well see a ruling in Jampiis favour.
2020-04-02 19:47
#55
 | 
Iceland fatboislim 
still won't happen
2020-04-02 20:11
#57
 | 
Germany LuzZ_ 
why would you assume that?
2020-04-02 20:13
#61
 | 
Iceland fatboislim 
valve sponsored tournaments are separate from the game itself. when you buy csgo, you're not buying eligibility to play in the tournaments you just buy the game. valve can have different rules for the tournaments and they can bend them, they have the absolute freedom to do so.
2020-04-02 20:20
But Valve by not allowing him to play means Valve is prohibiting him from making a career and taking away his source of income
2020-04-03 11:16
Valve are allowed to do that. It's no crime to prohibit someone from entering a tournament. And Jamppi can still compete in non-valve tournaments.
2020-04-03 11:48
He can but no team will sign him because every team wants to play at majors
2020-04-03 11:49
Yeah, so Valve isn't prohibiting his career. The orgs don't want to sign him, that's not valves fault and certainly nothing they can be sued for. That's like not being signed to an NHL team and then suing the NHL for it
2020-04-03 11:51
#192
 | 
Finland Barista 
To ban someone from a tournament that is necessary for a professional athlete to compete in the given sport is effectively preventing the person in question from pursuing his/her career. The Finnish court will most likely take this as a case of legal right to work as an athlete, and Valve should not have a chance defending their arbitrary life-ban.
2020-04-03 12:24
If a skier was banned by the IOC for doping, would you sue them for disrupting your career? No. Valve clearly states that the original holder of an account is responsible for all activity on it, so it doesn't matter if it truly was Jamppi who was cheating. There is no legal right to work as an athlete and valves decision doesn't affect anything but valve sponsored tournaments. Again, you can't blame valve for ruining his career when the orgs decide who to sign. There are plenty of other tournaments with similar prestige and winnings that he can compete in.
2020-04-03 13:23
What you do not understand here is that they're questioning the validity and harshity of the lifetime ban / vac ban as it can't really be traced to the person who committed the actual cheating per-se or Valve isn't willing to show evidence for it and the Finnish Consumer Protection Act is valid for the case the way the case was built. This will be processed in a Finnish court and it's completely legitimate to claim that Valve has A) banned him without willing to let him prove his innocence or get any indication of how Valve has been able to determine it was him B) A life-time ban for at-a-time minor when cheating as a consumer when you don't even understand the possibilities and responsibilities life's gonna impose to you is way too harsh at any rate. And remember, nothing proves the ban is even by Jamppi himself and it can be even from public vac secure server play.. The situation would be very different if he had a actual possibility to be heard on the situation by Valve. I understand why Valve doesn't wanna hear all the claims by possible cheaters in the world but that will be their downfall in this case I predict.
2020-04-03 14:25
"it can't really be traced to the person who committed the actual cheating per-se " Exactly, which is why Valve banned the old account and don't let Jamppi play in majors. Benefit of the doubt doesn't play in here because Jamppi's case builds upon an account which can't be confirmed nor denied to be sold. "Finnish Consumer Protection Act is valid for the case the way the case was built." I don't know Finnish law, but I sincerely doubt he can make a case here. Valve states that if you want to play a game (in multiplayer) you've been banned on, you can purchase a new account. Jamppi did this and thus he has full access to the product. Valves majors aren't part of the product that they're offering though which means they fall outside of this jurisdiction. "Valve has A) banned him without willing to let him prove his innocence or get any indication of how Valve has been able to determine it was him B) A life-time ban for at-a-time minor when cheating as a consumer" A) Vac bans are automated and ban accounts when there's evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Valve don't need to tell why he was banned or how he was banned. They do however know he purchased the game (assuming that he paid with a debit card). B) That's not up to court to decide, nor is it up to you and me. Valve clearly states that previously banned players are not allowed to participate in majors and again, Valve is selling CS:GO, not majors so Valve can choose who participates and who doesn't. "The situation would be very different if he had a actual possibility to be heard on the situation by Valve. I understand why Valve doesn't wanna hear all the claims by possible cheaters in the world but that will be their downfall in this case I predict." The problem is that Valve can't be expected to do that. If they had to, tons of pro-players could be incentivized to be able to cheat and then just claim they sold the account before the ban. What Jamppi doesn't realize is that regardless if he is innocent or not, Valve can't let this through, because that will affect the European market negatively.
2020-04-03 15:33
"The problem is that Valve can't be expected to do that. If they had to, tons of pro-players could be incentivized to be able to cheat and then just claim they sold the account before the ban." BS, if you cheat in pro matches you will obviously receive a much harsher sentence (5 year ban, maybe?). If an account you played an official match with gets VAC banned and Valve sees the detection happened during the match, why would claiming that you sold the account do anything? It would be obviously untrue. In contrast to Jamppi's case where Valve knows that the cheating happened in a non-professional setting, regardless of if Jamppi cheated himself or not. There's no reason to ban someone for more than 2-3 years for an offence outside the pro scene at least. Why would it be impossible for Valve to give out new rules which would fall in line with every other sport out there? Lifetime ban is completely insane and I think it's obvious Valve will change this sooner or later.
2020-04-03 17:12
"BS, if you cheat in pro matches you will obviously receive a much harsher sentence (5 year ban, maybe?). There's no reason to ban someone for more than 2-3 years for an offence outside the pro scene at least." That's not up to us to decide. Valve has drawn the conclusion that cheaters should get a lifetime ban from their tournaments. This hard stance has done well to keep professionals from cheating to win, considering that we've only seen one tier 1 player get banned for cheating. "Why would it be impossible for Valve to give out new rules which would fall in line with every other sport out there?" It's not impossible to set new rules. It's stupid to do so in this case though. "in contrast to Jamppi's case where Valve knows that the cheating happened in a non-professional setting, regardless of if Jamppi cheated himself or not." Does it matter? They are looking to keep CS:GO competitive, which means letting all players in all ranks play on as level field as possible. Why should Jamppi get a reduced ban compared to the average MM cheater?
2020-04-03 17:21
Maybe they just haven't gotten caught? Anyway, I would be very suspect of this "harsher sentences = less offences" thinking. Compare the doping infractions in some traditional sports with more and less strict penalties and you likely wouldn't see a significant difference.
2020-04-03 17:21
Well, the finnish consumer law is quite strict and I am quite willing to believe that Jamppi has a shot on his case. Also, as a minor I doubt neither of the accounts he has bought were with his own credentials so Valve should ban his father from competing instead of Jamppi as the only thing they can prove is that the accounts are bought by his father? Huh?
2020-04-05 21:50
thing is does Finland recognize esports competitors as athletes officially? you can't make a case that they're not allowing you to pursue your career if it does not exist according to your state's laws
2020-04-03 13:27
#255
 | 
Finland Karppanator 
Ceb and Aleksib have already given their testimonies on how much he missed out on. It's a fairly large amount of money from a legally binding contract which is always going to be good in a court of law.
2020-04-03 17:05
two guys testifying doesn't make an unofficial job official which is what I was asking
2020-04-03 19:31
#272
 | 
Finland Karppanator 
It does validify the amount of money that can be proven to be lost though. It doesn't need to be categorized as a job, it can be whatever situation which is still legal and the court will allow it. E:They can prove that he would have gotten money from a legally binding contract no matter what it was from. You can give money to anyone and anything as long as it's legal and Esports surely is and it would not be dismissed in the court of law.
2020-04-03 19:41
thing is you called him a professional athlete which is when I replied to your post. If the sport isn't recognized officially you ain't a professional athelte by defition of your govt. Losing money because the organizer imposed such sanctions after breaches of their terms of service are completely valid by the way regardless of how much money you'd be losing. Look at Juventus being banned by UEFA, look at Man City, etc. They all broke the rules they agreed to when they decided to participate and the financial consequences were severe, I don't see how or why it would be any different for CS. Also keep in mind UEFA has the power to block them from making any transfers, meaning even more deficit and ruin. I'm not saying I agree with it, I don't like it either but I don't see how suing valve will lead to anything lmao. If their terms of service are not considered abusive by the court of law which I find impossible there is no way he's got the slightest chance at it.
2020-04-04 02:23
The case here is that the finnish consumer law might actually view Valve's ToS as violating towards the end-consumer as they don't have to prove their claim but can shut someone out from competing in their prestigious league which every team wants to participate in and so stop their career progression.
2020-04-05 21:53
#99
broky | 
Latvia keshancs 
I mean the fact that Valve refused to reply to him and solve this issue already says a lot. I agree with #40, he might not get everything from that lawsuit, but there is a big chance.
2020-04-03 08:36
#7
 | 
United States Koosh34 
He isn't trying to go to court. Just trying to get valves attention/trying to legally prove that the account wasn't his.
2020-04-02 19:04
it was his acc...selling/sharing accounts are against the rules and having 2 accounts as well(if i remember that second part corectly) so according to rules it was his account
2020-04-03 07:38
And playing 16+ (or even 18+) game at the age of 14 is also against the rules. xD
2020-04-03 08:14
against your houserules? there is no common law on the age restriction of games
2020-04-03 09:13
Of course, but then take all the responsibility for your actions and don't complain about too strong measures applied to you.
2020-04-03 11:04
haha, nice moral high ground. Imagine being one of the worlds best talents in football and finding out you can't compete because of something you did as a child.
2020-04-03 11:11
What I said has nothing to do with morale. Just objective reality. Yeah, sometimes life is unfair, deal with that.
2020-04-03 11:17
In this case it would be easily possible to change the reality to be more fair and yet you refuse to do that? Is this a Russian attitude in general? Because that would explain the state of your country...
2020-04-03 17:14
I don't forbid you or anyone else to do something to change it.
2020-04-03 17:39
#139
OCEAN | 
Reunion 1iquser 
the 18+ symbol is just a warning to parents, not a rule
2020-04-03 11:30
#87
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
Steam TOS doesn't mean shit against the laws of the EU. The EU law basically says that the account is more your property than steam's thus you are allowed to sell your account.
2020-04-03 08:15
Can he actually prove he wasn't the owner of the account at the time of the vac ban?
2020-04-03 08:34
#100
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
I have no idea about that but the point is that it's perfectly legal to sell the account.
2020-04-03 08:38
Yeah, but if he can't actually prove it, it doesn't matter if it's legal or not, valve can still claim(and probably prove) he was still connected to the account and keep him banned/win the case. I need to read the whole thing and see how they are trying to dodge, but doesn't look good.
2020-04-03 08:50
I am a lawyer in Brazil, and here there is a law that governs the consumer x supplier relationship. This law obliges the supplier to prove that the consumer is wrong, that is, the consumer claims but does not need to prove anything, who needs to prove that the consumer is wrong is the supplier. I do not know the laws of other countries, but I know that there are other countries besides Brazil that also apply this inversion of the burden of proof.
2020-04-03 09:23
#136
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
I would assume innocent until proven guilty is the most common thing all over the world
2020-04-03 11:28
Innocent until proven guilty is a principle applied to CRIMINAL lawsuits.. We are discussing the relationship between consumer and supplier in the civil area, not in the criminal area.
2020-04-03 16:53
#258
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
Yeah sure but still the thing is that valve has by its own rules given a ban for breaking rules. They would have to prove he has broken the rules wouldn't they?
2020-04-03 17:11
#261
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
Although I have no idea if it has any relevancy whether or not he broke the rules and got banned due to it at least in the big picture
2020-04-03 17:15
If it was in Brazil Valve would lose, because jamppi was under 18 years old, so the "contract" wouldnt be valid. Also, in Brazil when the costumer can't negotiate the rules of the contract (pré made rules not negotiable, as the TOS) and it have abusive rules, you can invalidate those rules. Brazil copied a lot of laws from other countries, so maybe its the same where jamppis lawsuit is being analized.
2020-04-03 18:20
#265
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
In Finland you become legally responsible at the age of 15 and I would assume the same unfair rules principle would be applied in his case
2020-04-03 18:25
As i said... i dont know the laws of other countries... thats why i wrote that MAYBE it will be the same as Brazil in his case. I dont even know where his case is being analized.
2020-04-03 18:53
I would assume so, seeing that it's a large part of his laawsuit
2020-04-03 10:57
#118
 | 
Finland jUPPE! 
If it goes to court, it will be Valves job to prove that Jamppi was the owner of the account. Valve will fight and try to prevent the case going to court. If it looks that the case goes to court, I think Valve will settle the case and unban Jamppi.
2020-04-03 11:01
Eu law means jack shit when its murican company.
2020-04-03 11:27
#135
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
EU law means everything for an american company working in the EU
2020-04-03 11:27
Valve doesnt give a jack shit about some random finnish kid crying in a whole different continent after failing to play by the rules.
2020-04-03 11:34
#178
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
How so?
2020-04-03 11:58
Why would they? > Break the TOS > Cry about consequences
2020-04-03 14:24
#241
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
Because TOS is against the eu courts ruling?
2020-04-03 14:28
Valve as a company has the right to choose their clients just like an entrepreneur does. Thus they have every right to come up with a TOS and if you fail to comply they have the right to choose if you are allowed to participate in their events. As long as they aren't discriminating they can do whatever the fuck they want. So go cry with ur EU courts while you don't even know the law lmao.
2020-04-03 14:39
#244
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
The court overrules the TOS. TOS doesnt mean shit. What is so hard for you to understand? TOS has to abide by the rules set by the governing bodies
2020-04-03 14:48
Retarded or just slow? Valve as a company has every right to set terms for customers & to choose who can participate in their events just like a shopkeeper can choose his customers as long as it is not discriminating.
2020-04-03 19:21
So Jamppi is attention whore.
2020-04-03 08:12
#137
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
Yup what a fucking whore for protecting his rights
2020-04-03 11:28
What rights? To play in valve tournaments? Come on.
2020-04-03 11:52
#179
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
His rights of not getting fucked up by some shitty rules that go against the laws of the european union?
2020-04-03 11:59
In what way does valves ruling go against EU laws?
2020-04-03 12:07
#194
 | 
Finland Barista 
Right to work, which, for a professional athlete, is essentially a right to compete.
2020-04-03 12:28
#201
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
+ the right to sell digital property such as games and accounts.
2020-04-03 13:01
Which is not yet an established European law.
2020-04-03 13:23
#221
 | 
Finland Barista 
According to the French court it is.
2020-04-03 13:53
#229
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
Thus even if it is not an established part of the law the principle can be used.
2020-04-03 14:07
Valve isn't hindering him from having a CSGO career.
2020-04-03 13:24
#224
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
How is valve not hindering him from having a csgo career when the sole reason he didn't get the OG contract was the connection to the vac banned account?
2020-04-03 13:58
#9
 | 
Poland morosek 
What about no. Cheaters know what they are doing so they deserve the punishment.
2020-04-02 19:05
yes at 12 lets let a minor mistake ruin someones potential career over fucking nothing
2020-04-03 10:58
#120
 | 
Poland morosek 
He wanted to do that and he did it. It wasn't a minor mistake.
2020-04-03 11:03
It was? He didn't fucking kill anyone? Really, he probably just gave a friend an account. That was his only mistake here. At MOST he ruined a few peoples games on MM. I mean, kids are cunts, what did you expect? There's nothing here that makes me think someone deserves a life ban for a fuck up so relatively minor.
2020-04-03 11:11
"At MOST he ruined a few peoples games on MM" I think even this is a serious issue.
2020-04-03 11:30
How? Like, ok, dick move, but I don't think he would deserve a life ban
2020-04-03 11:31
lol if u seriously think cheating in a video game is a serious issue then idk what to tell u about ur priorities
2020-04-03 11:49
Well, there are surely more serious issues. But my point is: A lot of people are seriously annoyed by the amount of cheaters in MM.
2020-04-03 13:02
yea and then 8 hours later u forget about it and it doesnt matter anymore lol
2020-04-03 23:47
Even as a kid you should know not to cheat, any of y’all never had friends or something like that? If you ever cheated in UNO then you’re mentally ill.
2020-04-02 19:05
#12
valde | 
Sweden meistr0 
Still. LIFE ban? Isnt that a bit overkill?
2020-04-02 19:06
It depends on where you cheat in my opinion. If you cheated in a professional match, life ban is deserved, if in an Valve server match, maybe like a year or 2. Any other server, depends on who it’s owned by.
2020-04-02 19:08
So what youre actually telling us is that you think Jamppi should be free. The vc ban happened when he was 14 and in a normal matchmaking game or some casual game. That is about 5 or 6 years ago
2020-04-02 19:18
Yes I guess I don’t know much about it
2020-04-02 19:19
#19
 | 
Poland kruky 
How else you gonna chase every cheater? > Ah you cheated? Here is your one year ban. See you soon, buddy!
2020-04-02 19:10
#22
valde | 
Sweden meistr0 
2 year ban*, not 1. Look at other sports dude, everyone gets a new chance. Also in Dota the players get a second chance. Jamppi and V$M would both improve OG/Ence and MIBR, 100%.
2020-04-02 19:15
#56
 | 
Iceland fatboislim 
uuuu 2 years
2020-04-02 20:13
I think vacbans in dota are life time too, at least is what i've heard.
2020-04-03 08:35
#113
valde | 
Sweden meistr0 
I meant with matchfixing as well. IBP got life. Dota players doesnt
2020-04-03 10:51
#27
 | 
Finland Karppanator 
2 year bans would essentially render them useless in esports, this profession is one of the most volatile to change and change happens too often to make a 2 year hiatus for any reason viable for a pro.
2020-04-02 19:27
#30
 | 
Poland kruky 
Or they could just skip majors and wait for unban playing other tournaments. CS:GO is too easy game to cheat in and hide that and I'm standing behind decision for permanent ban for every caught cheater.
2020-04-02 19:32
#32
 | 
Finland Karppanator 
Every caught cheater on every level is not ever going to be a fair and justified stance, especially on players who clearly can know no better. 2 or even 3 years is punishment enough from top tier play. Swag couldn't hold his own good enough to be worth the hype he has had all this time for a reason. He played through his peak while he was banned.
2020-04-02 19:33
#39
 | 
Poland kruky 
I'm not sure what you mean by "Swag couldn't hold his own good enough to be worth the hype he has had all this time for a reason. " But that still other story, he never used cheats and in this case permanent ban was a bit overkill. CS:GO has only one main issue - cheaters. Valve can't get rid of them and allowing (even after some time) to participate one of them in their flagship tournaments would be image suicide. TBH Valve will profit in long run from Jamppi case (because he has no chance to win it) because any wannabe pros will think twice before they gonna use any cheats.
2020-04-02 19:46
#53
 | 
Finland Karppanator 
They already let pros cheat as long as the game version isn't csgo, the image has never been clean in CS. Wannabe pros nowadays have a way better image as is because it's actually semi-viable nowadays to be in esports. Valve is sitting on a high horse where they get to decide which cheaters get to compete and which ones don't. So, they already don't VAC ban people who obviously cheat, like when s1mple got caught cheating on ESL gathers. They don't give a single fuck as long as it's not their ban system. That's what's fucked. They don't give a shit about anyone cheating as long as the little marking is on their servers.
2020-04-02 20:12
#35
 | 
Finland cuntycorn 
I've cheated in plenty of card games. Still I'm not banned from attending to any tournament. Do you know why? Because those people have above 10iq
2020-04-02 19:39
Cya in hell
2020-04-02 19:41
#38
 | 
Finland cuntycorn 
Grow up and leave your biblical fairytales, hell doesn't exist
2020-04-02 19:45
Hell does exist and it’s what you go through when you’re facing GOD HUNDEN
2020-04-02 19:55
#43
 | 
Finland cuntycorn 
who?
2020-04-02 19:57
#11
 | 
CIS ShimonSS 
well, he deserves his ban if hes retarded enough to think that he has at least 1% to win such case
2020-04-02 19:06
#13
 | 
Israel jablay 
so what happened if he win and valve still doesn't care? will csgo and all valve game become illegal in finland? or what? if I were valve I just won't give a shit about this
2020-04-02 19:08
#90
 | 
Finland RIQUE_ 
What happens when companies do not abide by law?
2020-04-03 08:21
When the judge gives a veridict he imposes a daily fine in case of non-compliance with the decision. If Valve does not comply, she will lose a lot of money.
2020-04-03 09:30
or they will pull out of finland and jumpi and finish court will fuckup everyone there
2020-04-03 11:51
I doubt you can break law in Finland and continue operating in EU so better pull out of EU completely
2020-04-03 20:44
Depends on who is making the rulling, i dont know if its finnish court or EU court if its EU court something will be done, if its finnish valve will probably not give a fuck
2020-04-03 22:10
#15
 | 
Brazil renatorib 
#FreeJamppi #FreeVsm
2020-04-02 19:09
#20
 | 
Brazil MonkeyLover 
#freeforsaken
2020-04-02 19:11
#34
K1KA | 
Finland Kivekset 
Yes... forsaken had exactly same situation...
2020-04-02 19:36
#63
 | 
Brazil renatorib 
relax, he has cognitive impairment.
2020-04-02 20:21
#133
Asuna | 
United States bxteme 
dumbass that was a joke
2020-04-03 11:24
Something needs to be cleared up, why are there two VAC bans on the account rather than one?
2020-04-02 19:09
#18
valde | 
Sweden meistr0 
Good question, i have no idea.
2020-04-02 19:10
#144
OCEAN | 
Reunion 1iquser 
maybe he cheated in 2 games idk tho
2020-04-03 11:32
#17
f0rest | 
Czech Republic rusteDD 
imagine being so stupid to tell anyone you got banned... or you sold acc. both cheating or selling acc is forbidden. theres no even a slight chance hes gonna win. after all any company can regulate who they want to deal with, so anybody can be denied if lord gaben wakes up and randomly bans.
2020-04-02 19:10
#48
 | 
United Kingdom AlywOw 
It is legal to resell digital software in European Union, therefore, you are perfectly safe to resell your account.
2020-04-02 20:02
#59
f0rest | 
Czech Republic rusteDD 
lmao, flag checks out, cba to answer this stupidity
2020-04-02 20:17
#60
 | 
United Kingdom AlywOw 
lmao what? You have no idea what you are talking about just spreading rubbish.
2020-04-02 20:19
#62
f0rest | 
Czech Republic rusteDD 
yeah yeah account is not software broski. you can resale a game ofc, but sharing accs, selling them is forbidden by tos, its not illegal, but they may terminate it at any time.
2020-04-02 20:21
#65
 | 
United Kingdom AlywOw 
Anyone who owns a digital device or has an online account should have a plan for dealing with that asset, whatever their age. There is no legislative definition of a ‘digital asset’ in the UK. Digital assets can be understood as any information about you or created by you that exists in digital form, either online or on an electronic storage device, including the information necessary to access the digital asset. Other digital assets Betting accounts Gaming accounts: Now, stop spreading rubbish kiddo.
2020-04-02 20:23
#68
f0rest | 
Czech Republic rusteDD 
sweden =!uk eu=!uk valve=us us=!eu us=!sweden ==> ur argument = invalid now piss off and wait for the result of the lawsuit
2020-04-02 20:27
#72
 | 
United Kingdom AlywOw 
Valve is registered in Luxembourg and even if would be registered only in the US, once you are offering multilingual services you are targeting the specific country market and, therefore, the local laws apply to the producer regardless of registration address. So, like I said stop spreading rubbish kiddo. Your arguments are completely misleading and have no valid points.
2020-04-02 20:31
#75
f0rest | 
Czech Republic rusteDD 
sure, cool, still he will lose. its completely up to valve who get to play a major wether their sold their accs, got banned and created new ones.
2020-04-02 20:37
#77
 | 
United Kingdom AlywOw 
That is the real question, whether, they can deny him from participating in major. If he qualify through an open qualifier he should be able to attend in major, if denied he is most likely to win the case in court. What is obvious is that he cannot be invited, that is Valve decision who they will invite to their tournament.
2020-04-02 20:44
Valve is registered in Bellevue, Washington though???
2020-04-03 11:30
#148
 | 
United Kingdom AlywOw 
Valve S.a.r.l., a subsidiary based in Luxembourg. You are talking about headquarter :)
2020-04-03 11:39
And you are talking about their European hq. Valve as a company is still registered on Bellevue.
2020-04-03 11:41
#154
 | 
United Kingdom AlywOw 
It doesn't matter whether their headquarter is register in the US. They are offering services in Europe on behalf their Luxembourg subsidiary. Local laws apply, anyway 72 registered address doesn't matter at all.
2020-04-03 11:45
True. But I think we all know they do not give a jack shit about some Finnish kiddo crying after he gets banned. They are free to choose who can participate in their own events as long as it is not discrimination just like an entrepreneur can choose his/her clients.
2020-04-03 11:52
#180
 | 
United Kingdom AlywOw 
That's the real question I would like to see if this goes any further, what would be the outcome. However, Jumpi himself wouldn't be able to open a civil case against Valve. he would need someone or an organization to provide him with funds and even then it would take about two year for the final decision.
2020-04-03 12:00
Afaik he said even himself that he does not want to go to court, the sue is just to get to talk to Valve. I guess even he knows that going to court is not gonna end well for him.
2020-04-03 14:26
That's officially not been made a law yet since that ruling is pretty new.
2020-04-03 11:57
#188
 | 
United Kingdom AlywOw 
The first case opened was in Germany in 2012 and EP have prepared implementation, there was a new regulation in 2017 where they approved a new legislation that online services falls under digital goods. It is still very unclear and you are right at some point.
2020-04-03 12:18
#21
cam | 
United States girls 
was this guy "known" yet when he was 14 ? in finland or wherever
2020-04-02 19:11
#88
 | 
Finland Karppanator 
No. In 2015 the most known Finnish players were playing under 3DMax and they got to one major and lost all games.
2020-04-03 08:16
Valve lifetimebanning Kids for cheating is like USA puttings Kids to Prison.... Barbaric and nothing more #FreeJamppi
2020-04-02 19:25
#26
 | 
Netherlands poeya 
No they dont need to change it, because if they will it gives more chances for players to cheat or throw withouth as big of a action against them. zero tolerance for them
2020-04-02 19:25
Agreed. It's the lesson. Not for Jamppi or swag & co, but to others.
2020-04-03 08:21
You may not sell or charge others for the right to use your Account, or otherwise transfer your Account, nor may you sell, charge others for the right to use, or transfer any Subscriptions other than if and as expressly permitted by this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use). /closed
2020-04-02 19:28
#47
 | 
United Kingdom AlywOw 
This is only Valve policy, it's legal to resell digital software in European Union, therefore, you are perfectly safe to resell your account.
2020-04-02 20:00
selling a game is not the same as selling your account
2020-04-02 20:03
#52
 | 
United Kingdom AlywOw 
It is.
2020-04-02 20:07
#93
 | 
China SwooksarV2 
But we're talking about valve here right? Sure you might be allowed, but since you're playing on valves service, won't you fall under their jurisdiction?
2020-04-03 08:26
What jurisdiction? You mean thier ToS, that can't overrule legalslation in EU or other countries? Same shit whit thier cases that have "random" drop rate. Until China made them tell the real chance in percentage. Valve jurisdiction my ass.
2020-04-03 08:54
#107
 | 
China SwooksarV2 
Huh. I guess that makes sense. (That was France not china I'm pretty sure. China's all in for gambling lmao. Or idk. I don't have the perfect world csgo. Only played Cs in Canada) But I still can't see jampii winning this. I doubt his law team can beat valves.
2020-04-03 09:04
He can't win of course since his goal is to be able to play in thier majors and that part is in complete control of Valve regardless what outcome this lawsuit will have. About that random drop rate thing I can't say I am 100% sure about it being China, could be some other country aswell. Read some news way back were Valve (and other game distributors that had drop cases where you had to buy them or keys) was forced make the drop chance public information.
2020-04-03 14:22
Just because something is legal doesn't mean its not against the tos
2020-04-03 11:04
#153
 | 
United Kingdom AlywOw 
I never said that but terms of service have to comply with local laws. I also own a business and sell goods online. I can state in my terms that returns are not accepted but European laws says the customer has 14 days return policy on goods purchased online and I cannot do anything with it. If I refuse the customer to provide with refund, they can suit me and I will be sure to lose.
2020-04-03 11:43
But I mean, just because its legal under eu law to sell digital games/accounts, does that mean valve HAS to allow it?
2020-04-03 11:46
#160
 | 
United Kingdom AlywOw 
Yes if they are offering their services in EU but their terms of service comply with US laws, therefore, it is illegal to resell digital assets in the US.
2020-04-03 11:48
Interesting, maybe jampi actually has a case then
2020-04-03 11:50
#31
 | 
Sweden flippig 
He's claiming the same reason as forsaken did when he got unbanned, maybe he has a chance
2020-04-02 19:32
Throwers absolutely deserves the ban, Jamppis case is a bit different - cause he didnt cheat in a official match, the throwers did.
2020-04-02 19:33
#105
 | 
Hungary Shiron212 
This!
2020-04-03 09:00
#145
OCEAN | 
Reunion 1iquser 
+1 ruining someone's career just because of his childhood immaturity is stupid
2020-04-03 11:34
#37
flusha | 
Bulgaria WEEDY1 
fucking cheater eat shit
2020-04-02 19:43
"I'm innocent! My friend was using my account, I swear!" - every cheater ever
2020-04-02 19:55
"I'm innocent! My little brother was using my account, I swear!" - every cheater ever "I'm innocent! My grandma was using my account, I swear!" - every cheater ever "I'm innocent! My dog was using my account, I swear!" - every cheater ever
2020-04-03 08:23
#94
 | 
China SwooksarV2 
Hello, This is [insert account name]'s father here speaking. I would just like you to know that [insert account name] was not cheating and it was just his brother. Please unban him now. Thank you.
2020-04-03 08:28
#44
 | 
Belgium ZxTox 
This is bullshit, he shouldn't have a lifetime ban. Instead of actually trying to fix the anti-cheat they spend their time with banning young talents. Cya in hell Valve
2020-04-02 19:57
??? if they fixed the anti cheat he would only get banned for life faster lol
2020-04-02 20:27
Forsaken should sue Valve
2020-04-02 19:57
why do you care, are you a cheater?
2020-04-02 20:02
#50
 | 
Turkey Kalameister 
GOD
2020-04-02 20:02
just ban him for 10 years only :)
2020-04-02 20:10
#64
 | 
Europe userfriendly 
he already said hes not going to do it, just trying to get valve attention to give his story about that account.
2020-04-02 20:23
He didn't say he's not going to do it, he said he doesn't want to do it, but he will if he doesn't get a response from Valve.
2020-04-02 20:24
It's held in EU, Jamppi has a chance now KAMAAN JAMPPI
2020-04-02 20:36
#76
 | 
Germany schwammkules 
Lifetime bans are not justified imo maybe 2 years and then if you cheat again for life. Especially if you are underage. Only thing is what i don´t get is that your items get locked, i understand the point of not being able to trade them but atleast selling them on the market should be possible even valve would profit from it but yeah otherwise meh, Valve is a big company but im still rooting for him.
2020-04-02 20:43
I hope not
2020-04-02 21:18
nt jaampi alt acc
2020-04-03 07:30
If you cheat in professional game ban would justified, but as a fourteen year old kid in matchmaking, I think there should be punishment, but not perma ban.
2020-04-03 08:09
I agree that he should receive a second chance. I think it's absolutely ridiculous how many people claim that a 14 year old should "know better", as if they had always had the knownledge of moral correctness throughout their entire lives. These people claiming to have the moral high ground are honestly pathetic. If everyone doing so had their history examined and punished accordingly they wouldn't talk shit. Remember that one time you had a fight with that other kid in primary school and hit them really hard? Well, you should know better tbh, so let's ban you from school, why don't we? This way of thinking is so incredibly unreasonable. People make mistakes, some more grave than others, and you Jamppi haters are telling me that he doesn't deserve a business opportunity, no, the opportunity to pursue his dreams because of one not even particularly significant mistake he wasn't even responsible for when he was 14? Where's your human side, guys?
2020-04-03 08:45
are you his laywer? this sounds like the "final speech" laywer would present to the jury
2020-04-03 11:40
Nah, I haven't got the slightest clue about the law. This is just my opinion.
2020-04-03 13:21
#222
 | 
Finland 7ones 
Exactly. This is en easy one.
2020-04-03 13:55
He should sue his friend, Valve have done nothing wrong. The fault is with Jamppi.
2020-04-03 08:49
#106
 | 
Hungary Shiron212 
#FreeJamppi
2020-04-03 09:01
#108
 | 
Spain N0Love 
It looks to me that CSPPA is a joke tbh
2020-04-03 09:06
#124
 | 
Austria t47ED 
people need to learn not to cheat with only a 1year or 2 year ban every 1 gives a shit about this ban and try to cheat for major spots
2020-04-03 11:10
I think 2-3year ban for cheating is reasonable. ofc if you cheat at high level tournament, it should be longer, 4 years maybe? If you cheat and get 2-3y ban, and after that cheat again, it should be lifetime ban. 2-3 years is long time in pro cs, and i dont think so many pros want waste almost half of their career in banned.
2020-04-03 11:20
valve gmbh?
2020-04-03 11:21
#149
 | 
Luxembourg r1zo 
Jaja das ist so
2020-04-03 11:39
#157
 | 
Latvia kamixx 
No way that he will win that shit its volvo man
2020-04-03 11:47
He should just quit CS, go outside get som sun and get laid. ez as that
2020-04-03 11:55
#freejamppi
2020-04-03 12:02
hahaha poor guy cant do anything else than blame everyone for his ban lmao he needs to be banned from FPL too. no point to have vacced guys in pro league neither fpl c
2020-04-03 12:25
#193
 | 
Estonia mr_abdul 
ahahaha fuck him, and no lifetime ban isn't ''brutal'', but sure they could make it like 5 years, career would be over either way
2020-04-03 12:26
it's interesting how many pro's friends are cheating on their accounts
2020-04-03 12:28
#197
 | 
Ukraine ksay 
look at all those losers that think that lifetime ban is deserved and expect high moral standarts from the 14yo jampii shows how much they lack rl experience i am sure that 90% of you cry about cheaters every time you get rekt
2020-04-03 12:34
#220
 | 
Finland 7ones 
Indeed. This is an easy one for Jamppi. Paying way too big of a price, losing the job and his biggest passion, for cheating at the age of 14. Prolly won't get nowhere near that cash but will be able to play again. Some justice will happen.
2020-04-03 13:52
i hope valorant takes over and gaben gets destroyed fuking money milking whore
2020-04-03 13:32
#228
 | 
Sweden GeT_CoRrEcT 
+1 actually. The ban on Jamppi is a fucking joke.
2020-04-03 14:05
Actually now my mind is starting to change. Jamppi might win this its held in EU and EU rules. 2nd Jamppi was a child. But still I think he still needs to be ban. Like 3-4 Years Ban or probably 1 year ban from Valve-Sponsored Events
2020-04-03 14:07
Since the ban occured in 2015 wouldn't the ban be expired by now then?
2020-04-03 15:35
#233
Took | 
Romania Took 
I think it's easier for him to switch to another shooter rather than all this mess.
2020-04-03 14:08
valve make game valve make rules simple
2020-04-03 14:40
#257
 | 
Finland Karppanator 
Valve make game Distributes it in other countries and has to work with their laws Simple
2020-04-03 17:11
riot will hire a lawyer and ruin valve, calling it already.
2020-04-03 15:34
baitzera
2020-04-05 22:29
Nemiga
1.72
Nordavind
2.07
Evil Geniuses
1.65
100 Thieves
2.28
Renegades
1.14
Chiefs
5.35
Bet value
Amount of money to be placed
Winning
Odds total ratio
-
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