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EPL EU matches outcome group 2
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Sweden Lagge15 
I know a lot of people misunderstand how the deciders work if people end up on the same point in the group stages, even though we've had it utilize in almost all groups of EU and NA EPL so far. First part are points, basic 3 point for win and 0 for losing, and 1 for draw, but you can't draw in EPL. If 2 or more teams end up on the same points it will be decided by head 2 head, explained in EPL rule book liquipedia.net/commons/images/5/5b/ESL_P.. Chapter 4 paragraph 4 If after any point from 1. to 10., the number of tied participants is reduced or divided into several groups of tied participants, the still tied participants will in each case be compared again starting with the first point. 1. Points amassed between the tied participants (direct match win > direct match loss) 2. Map difference between the tied participants (3:2 maps > 3:3 maps) 3. Number of map wins between the tied participants (3:3 maps > 2:2 maps) 4. Overall map difference 5. Overall number of map wins 6. Round score difference between the tied participants (23:21 > 23:22) 7. Number of round wins between the tied participants (24:22 > 23:21) 8. Overall round score difference (39:31 > 40:33) 9. Overall number of round wins (40:32 > 39:31) The matches today: FaZe vs OG (unimportant for this "article") Fnatic vs Na'Vi (maps unimportant, only win and loss make a difference) Astralis vs Mousesports (maps are only important if Astralis win) Scenario 1: Fnatic win & Mousesports win Fnatic 12 points Mousesports 12 points Na'Vi 9 points Astralis 6 points Tiebreaker between Mousesports and Fnatic. Fnatic won 2-0 against Mousesports and therefore go directly to final, semis between Mousesports and Na'Vi Scenario 2: Fnatic win and Astralis win 2-0 Fnatic 12 points Mousesports 9 points Na'Vi 9 points Astralis 9 points Tiebreaker between Mousesports, Na'Vi and Astralis 1. Mousesports 3 points, Na'Vi 3 points, Astralis 3 points 2. Mousesports +/-0, Na'Vi -1, Astralis +1 Astralis are now in 2nd place and the tiebreaker between Mousesports and Na'Vi go back to 1. Mousesports are in 3rd place due to them winning over Na'Vi 2-0 Scenario 3: Fnatic win and Astralis win 2-1 Fnatic 12 points Mousesports 9 points Na'Vi 9 points Astralis 9 points Tiebreaker between Mousesports, Na'Vi and Astralis 1. Mousesports 3 points, Na'Vi 3 points, Astralis 3 points 2. Mousesports +1, Na' Vi -1, Astralis +/-0 Mousesports get 2nd place, Astralis get 3rd place and Na'Vi get 4th place. Scenario 4: Na'Vi win and Mousesports win Mousesports 12 points Na'Vi 12 points Fnatic 9 points Astralis 6 points Tiebreaker between Mousesports and Na'Vi Mousesports get 1st place due to their 2-0 victory over Na'Vi Scenario 5: Na'Vi win and Astralis win (maps doesn't matter) Na'Vi 12 points Fnatic 9 points Mousesports 9 points Astralis 9 points Tiebreaker between Fnatic, Mousesports and Astralis. 1. Fnatic 6 points, Mousesports 0 points, Astralis 3 points Fnatic 2nd place and Astralis 3rd I hope this makes it more clear for everyone. Fnstic is in 2ne place and
2020-04-09 11:35
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nice!
2020-04-09 11:37
#4
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Sweden Lagge15 
Thanks. Just tired of all the question threads that will appear today so I hope people can use this as a navigator.
2020-04-09 11:37
quick and easy 2-0 for 100T
2020-04-09 11:37
#7
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Sweden Lagge15 
How? They don't got any matches scheduled for like 2 weeks
2020-04-09 11:39
#3
2020-04-09 11:40
#9
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Sweden Lagge15 
But #3 doesn't make any sense, since 109 thieves 1) doesn't play in EU, 2) doesn't play at all today, 3) already got eliminated, 4) wouldn't even win 2-0 against ENCE with their current form
2020-04-09 11:41
#3
2020-04-09 11:42
#12
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United States Jack1CS 
+1 so ez for 100t
2020-04-09 11:43
Read his name
2020-04-09 11:43
#5
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Sweden Lagge15 
The weird thing is that they could've just put it around 8pm cest to get as many viewers as possible but for some reason they chose 6:25 pm
2020-04-09 11:38
#13
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India ROFLaala 
We are going into the finals!
2020-04-09 11:45
#14
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Sweden Lagge15 
Most likely yes.
2020-04-09 11:45
#16
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Sweden Lagge15 
Since Golden returned to Fnatic they haven't been worse than 4th in any event (unless if you count EPL s10 EU as a sepereate event from the whole EPL circuit)
2020-04-09 11:47
#46
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United States 10YearBansRUs 
na there's no other teams worth being in the event. all the top 5, a lot of the tier 1
2020-04-09 15:16
#49
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Sweden Lagge15 
Sorry, but I think I misread your comment. Read it several times and don't really get it. Are you saying Fnatic is the only "legitimate favorite" for EPL EU s11?
2020-04-09 15:30
#54
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United States 10YearBansRUs 
sorry i wrote that a bit weirdly. I basically meant the EU event is a tier 1 event in its own right and that it doesn't need any of the other teams to be considered one. Liquid and EG are out of the top 5 so no need for them. We've got the best CIS and EU teams and i think thats enough to justify it as a big tier 1 event.
2020-04-09 15:37
#55
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Sweden Lagge15 
Oh you mean past season where they came 7th-8th and qualified for the finals even though they had a bad event? Now I get it
2020-04-09 15:38
#47
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India ROFLaala 
Absolutely, the consistency is right there. Hopefully Floosha rekts s1mple today and they telecast it as the main game.
2020-04-09 15:22
#48
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Sweden Lagge15 
The issue with Fnatic so far has mainly been them being too confident (overconfident) and therefore lose maps, rounds and matches due to that. In the beginning of EPL, and earlier this year, their issue was timing, but now they seem like one of the meanest machines in the scene. But they still lose because they hold angles with an awp while expecting to get tripple peeked. The match against Mousesports are the most obvious one where this made them lose rounds because of them just "fucking around"! Important rounds and they go for plays that smurfs usually do, just to try out "will this work on this low level?", and then it doesn't work and they lose.
2020-04-09 15:26
#15
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Germany KaiusMaximus 
In Scenario Nr.3, why does Astralis get 3rd Place. Mouse gets 2nd Place, then the 3rd Place decision is Astralis vs. Navi. Navi won 2-1 against Astralis so they get the 3rd Place, or do i have a failure in my thinkings?
2020-04-09 11:46
#17
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Sweden Lagge15 
Because during point 2 of the tiebreaker Astralis got better than Na'Vi. It isn't tie after point 2. But if they were tied then Na'Vi would get 3rd spot
2020-04-09 11:48
#29
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Germany KaiusMaximus 
Can you explain more? In my head is: Scenario 3: Fnatic win and Astralis win 2-1 Fnatic 12 points Mousesports 9 points Na'Vi 9 points Astralis 9 points Tiebreaker between Mousesports, Na'Vi and Astralis 1. Mousesports 3 points, Na'Vi 3 points, Astralis 3 points 2. Mousesports +1, Na' Vi -1, Astralis +/-0 Mousesports get 2nd place, Tiebreaker between NaVi and Astralis 1. NaVi 3 Points, Astralis 3 Points 2. NaVi won against Astralis Navi get 3rd place and Astralis get 4th place. Edit: Remember this: If after any point from 1. to 10., the number of tied participants is reduced or divided into several groups of tied participants, the still tied participants will in each case be compared again starting with the first point.
2020-04-09 12:20
#30
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Sweden Lagge15 
Yeah. But the point 2 decides for all 3 teams and not just for 1 team. Astralis is ahead of Na'Vi in point 2 when we account for all the 3 tiebreaker tesms
2020-04-09 13:22
#18
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Sweden Lagge15 
To make it more clear than #17: The tiebreaker brings in Mousesports as well, then the all won 1 match each, but Na'Vi won 2-1 and lost 2-0 while the others lost 2-1
2020-04-09 11:52
#20
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India mr_magician 
But in scenario 2 you compared mouz and navi h2h, this is same condition as in 3
2020-04-09 12:00
#31
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Sweden Lagge15 
In #3 you count in for 3 teams h2h, not just 2 teams. When counting for all 3 teams Astralis is ahead of Na'Vi
2020-04-09 13:23
#36
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India mr_magician 
I dont get it man, there is something wrong either in s2 or s3, since they should dealt similarly. Nevertheless, I appreciate your detailed thread and analysis. gj
2020-04-09 14:45
#37
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Sweden Lagge15 
Had to re-read what I wrote. You are correct. Can't edit main post now. 2nd scenario is that Mousesports will get ahead of Na'Vi due to point 2, not because of starting over again. My mistake. I was distracted a bunch of times while writing this and I blame my collegues and my work for that mistake. Good eye though. So in Scenario 2 Astralis will get 2nd place because of point 2 getting +1, Mousesports get 3rd place because of point 2 getting +/-0 and Na'Vi will be eliminated because they will be -1 in point 2.
2020-04-09 14:54
#43
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India mr_magician 
yeah now it makes sense. ty for confirmation. gj
2020-04-09 15:09
#44
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Sweden Lagge15 
thanks.
2020-04-09 15:10
#38
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Sweden Lagge15 
Sorry for my mistake. it isn't Scenario 3 that is wrong, it is scneario 2. hltv.org/forums/threads/2277370/epl-eu-m..
2020-04-09 14:54
#19
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India mr_magician 
In scenario 3, shouldn't the tie breaker b/w astralis and navi go to head to head, resulting in navi 3rd and ast 4th? Edit:ok now I read #15
2020-04-09 12:01
#21
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France Latour12 
Wait if NaVi and Astralis win Mouz isnt out ?
2020-04-09 12:01
#22
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India mr_magician 
Yes they are See S5
2020-04-09 12:03
#23
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France Latour12 
this can be 1.navi 4-1 2.fnatic 3-2 (direct win vs astralis and mouz) 3.astralis 3-2 (direct lose to fnatic and win vs mouz) 4.mouz 3-2 (lose both direct games) I'm right ?
2020-04-09 12:05
#24
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India mr_magician 
Yuss
2020-04-09 12:06
#25
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France Latour12 
But this doesnt mean I want out Mouz Best scenario Navi and Mouz win 1.Mouz rest nevermind
2020-04-09 12:07
#26
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India mr_magician 
Lol ok xD
2020-04-09 12:11
#27
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France Latour12 
XDD
2020-04-09 12:12
#34
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Sweden Lagge15 
I can't decide one who is best because I think 3 teams deserve final spot atm.
2020-04-09 13:33
#35
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France Latour12 
For me also
2020-04-09 13:28
#32
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Sweden Lagge15 
Wow, that is even more clear than my mile long post
2020-04-09 13:24
#28
shroud | 
Russia FriZZeh 
high iq thread
2020-04-09 12:15
#33
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Sweden Lagge15 
Thanks bro. Check out my other more analytical threads if you got time for a long read
2020-04-09 13:24
#39
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Sweden flippig 
Hltv, hire this man!
2020-04-09 14:58
#40
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Sweden Lagge15 
Thanks. I might apply for an internship or junior writer.
2020-04-09 14:59
#41
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Sweden flippig 
Yeah well something like this would be great if provided by hltv in an article ahead of the final day of games.
2020-04-09 15:03
#42
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Sweden Lagge15 
I thought Prof or Striker used to present these stuff previously events, but for some reason they haven't this year. Perhaps too busy with real reports? I could just sell it to Miraa so he could get some reports out with positive reactions.
2020-04-09 15:05
#45
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Sweden Lagge15 
Have you read my other "long" articles?
2020-04-09 15:11
#58
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Sweden flippig 
yeah I started reading and read some of the top 30 teams one but too long mens))
2020-04-09 15:44
#59
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Sweden Lagge15 
which one? I can direct you to the interesting parts. Or just read the teams you care about. For Part 3 I suggest you read CompLexity and Heroic, even though I am wrong in my "guesses" on Heroic. Dennis and Cadian baited me for days
2020-04-09 15:46
#50
ropz | 
Czech Republic y0fl0w 
correct until (scenario 2) "Astralis are now in 2nd place and the tiebreaker between Mousesports and Na'Vi go back to 1. Mousesports are in 3rd place due to them winning over Na'Vi 2-0" the tiebreaker between mouz and navi is already resolved at this time, so navi and mouz won't start again with rule 1 that obviously makes no difference in the end tho
2020-04-09 15:30
#51
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Sweden Lagge15 
hltv.org/forums/threads/2277370/epl-eu-m.. yeah, no edit ability in OP. Scenario 2 outcome is correct, but the reasoning for the outcome is wrong.
2020-04-09 15:31
#52
ropz | 
Czech Republic y0fl0w 
ahh, all good bro ;) thanks for your time you put into this.. had useless discussions yesterday already with a bunch of idiots who weren't able to understand this not so super complicate system
2020-04-09 15:33
#53
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Sweden Lagge15 
yeah, it happened during last day of EPL NA group stage as well, where the casters were spewing lies/false facts, for a long time and even the players were confused on whether or not they were qualified. It isn't that hard if you just read the updated rulebook, which was published about 10 days before the first EPL match this season.
2020-04-09 15:35
#56
ropz | 
Czech Republic y0fl0w 
exactly.. that's the reason i made a suggestion to link the fucking rulebook on hltv's event page: hltv.org/forums/threads/2266511/link-rul..
2020-04-09 15:40
#57
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Sweden Lagge15 
I don't think they link to external stuff due to it being possible to change URL's. I got this from Liquipedia and got it downloaded on my computer and my phone
2020-04-09 15:41
#60
trace | 
Denmark esAq 
"(3:2 maps > 3:3 maps)" How is this to be understood?
2020-04-10 00:40
#62
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Sweden Lagge15 
See my reply below
2020-04-10 08:12
#61
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Sweden Lagge15 
Left columns is won and 2nd column is maps lost. So if it say 3:2 it means 3 son and 2 lost
2020-04-10 08:11
#63
trace | 
Denmark esAq 
In scenario 2 you write "1. Mousesports 3 points, Na'Vi 3 points, Astralis 3 points 2. Mousesports +/-0, Na'Vi -1, Astralis +1" How do you get the 3 points and the map differences? Their 3 wins? But how do you get 0, -1 and +1?
2020-04-10 10:51
#64
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Sweden Lagge15 
Scenario 2 is a bit wrong. The outcome is correct but not because of the reason stated. But lets see what the rulebook say: 1. Points amassed between the tied participants (direct match win > direct match loss) 2. Map difference between the tied participants (3:2 maps > 3:3 maps) You get 3 points for a win, 1 for tie (which isn't possible in EPL) and 0 for a loss. All teams in Scenario 2 won 1 match each, which means 3 points each. Second point is map difference. In Scenario 2 (which was the one happening) Astralis had 2 maps won against Mousesports, 1 map won against Na'Vi and 2 maps lost against Na'Vi. That leaves them with 3:2 maps. Mousesports won 2 maps against Na'Vi and lost 2 maps against Astralis, which makes them 2;2. Na'Vi won 2 maps against Astralis, lost 1 map against Astralis and lost 2 maps against Mousesports. Which leaves them 2:3 So that's how it is counted But mousesport won because of point 2, not because of the h2h reset as I said in OP.
2020-04-10 10:57
#65
trace | 
Denmark esAq 
Ah, thanks a lot. I counted all the maps from their matches and not alone their matches against each other.
2020-04-10 11:02
#66
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Sweden Lagge15 
oh ok. Nah when it is a tiebreaker h2h is above overall, been for a few seasons due to some issues some time ago. Expect them to revamp the rulebook for s12 though, because they made quick changes to make this possible for online CS, but they missed out a lot of rules that isn't applicable for online cs and that some rules are quite poorly phrased.
2020-04-10 11:05
SKADE
1.33
Sinners
3.17
Natus Vincere
1.78
FaZe
2.04
Nordavind
1.27
AGO
3.73
Bet value
Amount of money to be placed
Winning
Odds total ratio
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