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math experts need help
Estonia Haha2v4loseagain 
wtf is saddle point pls explain
2020-07-12 16:06
Topics are hidden when running Sport mode.
google "saddle point" if u need to know what a saddle point is.
2020-07-12 16:06
its too hard mens
2020-07-12 16:06
help
2020-07-12 16:08
The slope is 0 but it's not a extremum.
2020-07-12 16:09
Since usually, when the slope is 0, the corresponding point is an extremum
2020-07-12 16:09
bro what does extemum mean? like minimum, maximum value?
2020-07-12 16:12
If you think about a graph, maximum would be the top of a "hill" and minimum would be the lowest point of a "valley"
2020-07-12 16:16
ok kinda makes sense ty bro
2020-07-12 16:17
It is like a minima and maxima at the same point but in 3D if I am making some sense.
2020-07-12 16:11
like minimum, maximum value?
2020-07-12 16:13
Are you baiting, do you even study?
2020-07-12 16:13
no im not baiting, i like 3d graphics and i need to draw a monkey saddle surface
2020-07-12 16:14
I have no clue what is monkey saddle surface lol
2020-07-12 16:15
check article its some equations to draw it
2020-07-12 16:16
Checked, too above my level of maths :/
2020-07-12 16:16
ok ty for telling me that its gonna be impossible for me then, mens whyy((((
2020-07-12 16:17
#53
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India c0nsc10us
It's a point where a curve changes its behaviour of concavity and convexity. The slope of the curve at this point is zero but the point is neither a global nor a local extremum. In the sense if f`(x)=0, this point must be a maximum or a minimum. If f``(x) >0, it's maximum and vice versa. But at saddle point, this isn't true.
2020-07-12 19:07
Wtf no.. it's not minimum and Maximum at the same point, that makes no sense lol. Saddle point is a point where slope is zero bit that point is neither a local maximum or a local minimum
2020-07-12 17:16
I wanted to give an idea to the guy don't go on words. And also minima =/= minimum
2020-07-12 17:19
What's even the point of saying "minima=/= minimum"?? What exactly is the difference between minimum and minima apart from one being the plural of other???? Pff kid tryna act over smart lol
2020-07-12 17:34
Dude get some maths lecture . There is a lot of difference lol.
2020-07-12 17:36
Uhha and those are? You go to kindergarten again kid. Anyways expected from a guy who says saddle point is minima and Maxima at the same point( lol like that even makes sense) Nice iq
2020-07-12 18:24
Says the guy who don't know diff between minima and minimum ahahahahah
2020-07-12 18:33
#55
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India c0nsc10us
What he said is almost completely correct. Minima=/=minimum is a statement made completely out of context with no relevance to the definition of a saddle point either. An inflexion point doesn't denote a minimum or a maximum
2020-07-12 19:09
Please dude enlighten me with the difference between minimum and minima that's not plurality. In the previous comment also I asked to tell the difference, you couldn't cause you know you are wrong. Here's a tip, just don't memorise fancy words to look smart, cause that's dumb as hell. Try and actually understand, you might be able to do something in life other than being a parrot serving word salads
2020-07-12 20:00
Minima = point where slope is 0 and points to the left and right has greater value than value at that point. Minimum (more specifically global minimum) is a point where function has minimum value.
2020-07-12 20:17
Lol dude more pedantic bs than actual difference. Here's the logic Of course a global minimum will be called a minimum cause there can only be one minimum for a function There can be multiple local minimums for a function hence the plural term minima is used. Doesn't make any difference other being pedantic about words. But you do you man. You're one of those guys who prefers word salads and fancy terminology over clarity and understanding.
2020-07-12 20:22
#57
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India c0nsc10us
Minima is not just a plural for minimum. There's a global maximum and a global minimum for a curve. There can be any number of local maxima<= global maximum and any number of local minima>= global minimum. When considering specific domains of concentration in statistics or even demographical studies for example, these local minima play a much more important role in the understanding of a problem then a global minimum which might not fall within the selected domain's range. TLDR, minima is not purely a plural for minimum.
2020-07-12 19:15
Yeah and those have their own separate terms like local maximum and global maximum. one local maximum, and if you've several local maximums then those are local maxima, same for the global ones. I don't understand what's the point of being so pedantic with english words in maths.
2020-07-12 20:03
#71
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India c0nsc10us
Tell me about it! I can now look back fondly at my high school days and somehow manage to develop a fondness for the terminology. Memory though brings me back to the reality of the contempt I used to feel for the guys who thought it was a literary competition to be won in Mathematics.
2020-07-12 20:06
It's literally the same thing in my uni. Everyone's just all the time busy memorising all the fancy terminology that the prof uses instead of trying to understand what it is. Every calculus book I've used from spivak to lang almost always uses maximum and Maxima as singular and pluralr. So I still have no clue what's the actual difference supposed to be. But I appreciate your reply which had actual content and not just some smug reply.
2020-07-12 20:15
#75
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India c0nsc10us
People are still using Spivak? That is as classical as you could get at calculus. It was used as a punishment to students in our University. A more practical approach to calculus was Kalmanson that we used to prefer. I could never be smug when it comes to calculus. Just couldn't. Would be guilty of the opposite on most other topics though.
2020-07-12 20:26
Nah my uni uses a more modern book. I don't like it, so I use spivak. I believe if one wants to learn calculus or analysis there's no better way to do it than learning from Masters like spivak and rudin. Absolute legends
2020-07-12 20:50
well bro you are right, but partially. it's like when you see the projection of 3D graph on 2D plane (or derivate it), saddle point is local minima on x-z plane (or through y axis) and local maxima on y-z plane (or through x axis). hence when you see at 3D picture, it comes out to be neither loacal minima nor local maxima (since the projections give contradictory results), but with slope = 0
2020-07-12 18:59
Hmm.. Nice explanation.
2020-07-12 19:02
why do i feel like this was sarcastic
2020-07-12 19:04
Not at all, what makes you think so?
2020-07-12 19:07
nothing lol. leave xD
2020-07-12 19:11
In a 3D object, I can have sloped surfaces. When these surfaces stop sloping, I've usually encountered an extremum (a minimum or maximum point), however this may not be the case. I can have a point where I have no slope, but am not at an extremum. The simplest object that displays this is a saddle (the first image which shows up when you search "saddle point", and hence why it is so-named).
2020-07-12 16:17
what do u mean by "however this may not be the case" this confused me, everything else made sense
2020-07-12 16:18
Take the simple horse saddle (z=x^2-y^2). At (0, 0, 0), there is no slope. However, it is not a minimum or a maximum point, as I can slope up (to, say (1, 0, 1)), and down (to (0, -1, -1)). Take the term saddle literally. In order to saddle something, you need the higher points on some (opposite) sides to stabilize your body (as given by (1, 0, 1) and (-1, 0, 1) in the simple horse saddle), and some lower points (also on opposite sides) for your legs to go (as given by (0, -1, -1) and (0, 1, -1)). The "saddle point" would then be the point where (the center of) your body goes (i.e. (0, 0, 0)).
2020-07-12 16:30
i understand now, thank u for the explanation bro.
2020-07-12 16:31
#63
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India c0nsc10us
You could be a professor. Fairly easy definition to understand for people with beginner's knowledge. +1
2020-07-12 19:21
Saddle point is a point on a graph where the slope at that point is 0. That means the derivative at that point is 0. It is also a point before which the derivative was negetive and after which the derivative is positive. Look at graph of y=x^2, The point 0,0 is the saddle point.
2020-07-12 16:19
don't know what a derivative is, ffs
2020-07-12 16:19
Derivative is the gradient at that point, you can just google for a derivative if you have the function.
2020-07-12 17:47
#58
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India c0nsc10us
No. That's not a saddle point. Saddle points don't exist for curves with no inflexion
2020-07-12 19:17
The gradient (slope/derivate) is 0, and the point is not a maximum of minimum.
2020-07-12 16:22
what gradient??
2020-07-12 16:27
#59
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India c0nsc10us
dy/DX. How do you come across saddle point without first learning basic calculus mate?
2020-07-12 19:18
because ive only learned math in school from grade 1-9(we barely even talked about trig and thats via calculators lmao) i just turned 19 and since 18(started programming when i was 17) ive been interested in graphics programming so im learning math myself, so far ive learned trig, parametric equations and some other concepts now im learning about different coordintate systems(cylindrical coordinates atm)
2020-07-12 19:21
#66
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India c0nsc10us
Good for you. I can appreciate the effort you're putting in. But I'd suggest you follow a more orthodox approach in learning math in a hierarchical manner. Things could get real confusing otherwise in co-ordinate geometry and calculus. PM me if you need anything cleared up. Would always be willing to help a fellow man at math.
2020-07-12 19:24
yeah ive been skipping some things, because ive just looked at different wiki pages for equations to draw cool surfaces so i just try to learn whatever i need to in order to draw that surface. anyways sounds good i'll send u a pm and thanks <3 ot: i know that it might sound stupid asking math questions in hltv but im not doing it to bait any1 or look dumb, i know there are plenty of ppl in hltv good at math.
2020-07-12 19:27
In a given pay-off matrix, you find the minimum of each row and maximum of each column. If there is a common point it's called saddle point. This is also the minimax method.
2020-07-12 16:32
bro are u trolling, why are u talking about matricies its so complex pls stop
2020-07-12 16:47
...................................? do you know anything about 3d or did you just do a bunch of youtube tutorials?
2020-07-12 16:50
Thanks to you, now i know a saddle point also exists in 3D geometry. The definition i gave pertains to Game Theory (probably irrelevant to you).
2020-07-12 17:05
#60
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India c0nsc10us
Wow! Didn't expect to see that here. Thank you for the memories mate!
2020-07-12 19:19
In mathematics, a saddle point or minimax point[1] is a point on the surface of the graph of a function where the slopes (derivatives) in orthogonal directions are all zero (a critical point), but which is not a local extremum of the function.[2] An example of a saddle point is when there is a critical point with a relative minimum along one axial direction (between peaks) and at a relative maximum along the crossing axis. However, a saddle point need not be in this form. For example, the function {\displaystyle f(x,y)=x^{2}+y^{3}}{\displaystyle f(x,y)=x^{2}+y^{3}} has a critical point at {\displaystyle (0,0)}(0,0) that is a saddle point since it is neither a relative maximum nor relative minimum, but it does not have a relative maximum or relative minimum in the {\displaystyle y}y-direction. The name derives from the fact that the prototypical example in two dimensions is a surface that curves up in one direction, and curves down in a different direction, resembling a riding saddle or a mountain pass between two peaks forming a landform saddle. In terms of contour lines, a saddle point in two dimensions gives rise to a contour graph or trace in which the contour corresponding to the saddle point's value appears to intersect itself.
2020-07-12 16:42
It's nice mens) never knew about that site before
2020-07-12 17:20
the point on horse where you place the saddle
2020-07-12 16:46
Cool explanation
2020-07-12 16:54
It's a point on a curve where slope and rate of change of slope both are zero. It's point with zero derivative ( or zero gradient if 3d) which is neither a maximum nor a minimum. Also the slope at the point doesn't change if you move slightly in any direction from that point.
2020-07-12 17:26
wtf someone asking a math question over here LOL
2020-07-12 17:22
Google maybe
2020-07-12 17:27
hltv instead of google are you 12 yo?
2020-07-12 18:03
f''(x1) = 0 f''' (x1) != 0 as far as i remember its the point where f changes its gradient from + to - and vice versa. f'(x<x1) > 0 f'(x>x1) <0 vice versa
2020-07-12 18:31
See: geogebra.org/m/gaWjsbEs Here the saddlepoint is at (0,0,0). Also read en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle_point You need to know what the derivative of a function is first though & some other high school level math.
2020-07-12 18:42
Its not an extremum. In one dimension its a stable point or in other words an Inflection Point, in one dimension! In third dimension its called saddle point.... In the first dimension and second dimension a function is set by x and y, y = x. In the third dimension the function is set by 3 parameters: x,y,z , z = x^2 - y^2. To find a saddle point you have to find out if the function has positive and negative values, f''(x) > 0 | f''(x) < 0. Of course you have to find the derivative of the function.
2020-07-12 18:45
complex :(
2020-07-12 19:20
Math is the most boring thing ever
2020-07-12 19:22
no wonder ur so dumb
2020-07-12 19:23
hhahahahha
2020-07-12 19:51
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