Thread has been deleted
Last comment
ESIC is a joke
 | 
Brazil MrLucas 
This whole esic situation is actually ridiculous, for them to ban a professional with an accusation of cheating just because the guy didnt know how to react to a game bug, thats not even caused by him and without even considering if it affected the game is just absurd, they are fucking people carrers over something thats out of their control. Since its something thats caused by the game 99% of the time, they would need to have 100% sure that the person took advantage of it to punish him, and not just penalize everyone who was affected by the bug and did not know how to react instantly (there was not even a recommendation for these cases until a months ago).
2020-09-28 15:53
Topics are hidden when running Sport mode.
#2
ropz | 
Netherlands ONGix
Everything checks out
2020-09-28 15:54
what checks out?
2020-09-28 17:19
#112
 | 
Netherlands Pyreau
everything
2020-09-28 17:38
#122
ropz | 
Netherlands ONGix
+1 it's literally there
2020-09-28 17:56
+1
2020-09-29 17:49
#8
 | 
Russia VelsVivard
I agree, they could just forbid it from this moment on without digging a thousand graves and keep going, anyone who gets caught from the moment of discovery would be permanently banned, but banning for the past mishandle is ridiculous and wrong.
2020-09-28 15:57
#12
 | 
Brazil MrLucas
exactly
2020-09-28 15:59
#39
arT | 
Brazil logzera
Agreed.
2020-09-28 16:27
"banning for the past mishandle is ridiculous and wrong" ??? wtf, is this how law enforcement in russia works xD no, it isn't, especially that they didn't get lifetime sentences
2020-09-28 16:33
#50
 | 
Russia VelsVivard
Your takeaway should have been that the defendant may have provoked the feature switching on without even knowing it and then he either closes it or tries to investigate it that one time to never come back around it again and gets banned like he deliberately went for it and broke the fairness of a match by his own will.
2020-09-28 16:35
then, they are free to cooperate and contest their case this situation is not binary, coaches got punishment according to scale of their abuse and their cooperation with the investigation if it was truly a mistake/switching it on without even knowing, then the worst you can get is very mild punishment for now, it looks like those controversial cases like robban's are a minority, most coaches fucked up also the investigation is still ongoing so things can change, but saying "ESIC dumb hurr durr my coach says it was a mistake", considering that they may as well be lying is a joke
2020-09-28 16:43
#64
 | 
Russia VelsVivard
I have no questions to the more than one cases but singular reports seem to be mistreated by the Esports janitor.
2020-09-28 16:45
#68
 | 
Brazil _Awper
1 month in CS is like 1 year in regular sports and right now some people are getting banned by 3 or 5 months, some more... even tho they didn't take any advantage by a BUG that Valve knew and didn't patched.
2020-09-28 16:49
#141
Dosia | 
Russia Rapu
> is this how law enforcement in russia works xD The new laws are not retroactive in Russia (as in any normal country). Since you're talking about the law, the law should be the same for everyone. If we ban people for using the game's bugs, we should ban Olof and Astralis.
2020-09-29 17:38
except that there is no retroactivity in this case... this is not how it works, they didn't change the "law" retroactively to punish the players law IS the same for (in theory) everyone, but there are different clauses for different things universal rule, such as banning everyone for using "game bugs" is a shit idea, olofboost, big's jump bug and this coach bug should be reviewed case by case basis, saying that all those incidents are usage of "game bugs" is technically correct but meaningless to overall discussion
2020-09-29 18:15
#49
 | 
Brazil _Awper
+1
2020-09-28 16:35
Not only this. Its the fucking admins who knew about it. Several coaches told admins that they had this bug. So its ESL / DREAMHACK / BLAST and VALVE fault. Only coaches who really abused bug
2020-09-28 17:37
#139
 | 
Taiwan phrog69
okay so a man murders someone 3 years ago and there is evidence to prove it but it doesn't matter because it happened in the past, as long as he doesn't murder again he shouldn't be punished right? what kind of logic is this
2020-09-29 17:30
What kind of comparison is this, does breaking the law have no boundaries for you? Are you a human being at all? Where's the humane factor? Especially given that it's 90% of all the relevant coaches who were banned, exclude those who had more than one instance, one timers should be cleared and let go. Read what I wrote Bob.
2020-09-29 17:38
I'd wait for the rest of the cases in a month and then individually re review cases that appealed. its real hard on their side to do this stuff, as if they let one guy off the hook, everyone else'll be upset and stuff
2020-09-28 15:59
Yeah man. Forget about them using the bug because they were "confused" by having this bug and not reporting it. Nice.
2020-09-28 16:02
#14
 | 
Malaysia Suno[t]
+1 stupido
2020-09-28 16:03
yeah sure, they didnt cheat at all, nobody kekw
2020-09-28 16:04
its not about cheating my dude. Its about how these people were convicted without proff if they affected the game or note
2020-09-28 20:11
#16
 | 
Finland Jodecast
Its not like you can just activate it by accident lmao
2020-09-28 16:04
#22
 | 
Brazil MrLucas
The bug can be activeted intentionally, but most of the cases it happened randomly thats why its stupid to ban everyone who were affected by it and didn't know how to react instantly
2020-09-28 16:09
#23
 | 
Finland Jodecast
Yeah yeah nice story, been around since 2016 and nobody made any deal of it and now we start to talk about "intentionally"
2020-09-28 16:10
#24
 | 
Brazil MrLucas
??????? its their fault that Valve doesnt fix their own fucking game?
2020-09-28 16:12
#27
 | 
Finland Jodecast
Oh I got a easy solution, one fucking tweet about it would have fixed everything. If everyone knows about it then no problem and it would have been fixed in a day. But I guess not :)
2020-09-28 16:13
#32
 | 
Brazil MrLucas
oh yeah much more likely that its a conspiracy of dozens of coaches, many of whom have never spoken to each other in their lives, who decided to get together to keep this huge secret from the community, so they can abuse a bug for a coulpe of rounds of a random game
2020-09-28 16:18
#36
 | 
Finland Jodecast
Well tell me why nobody made one simple tweet about it then?
2020-09-28 16:25
#38
 | 
Brazil MrLucas
ok, there is no way this isnt a bait, gj got me this far
2020-09-28 16:26
#41
 | 
Finland Jodecast
Should just looked at your flag and not even talk with someone defending cheaters and is from a country where every single relevant coach that was coaching a brazilian team is banned
2020-09-28 16:32
#44
 | 
Brazil MrLucas
oh nvm your are just stupid
2020-09-28 16:32
#46
 | 
Finland Jodecast
Tell me how me asking for once simple tweet which would have fixed everything is stupid over a period of 4 fucking years
2020-09-28 16:33
#54
 | 
Brazil MrLucas
believing #32 says enough
2020-09-28 16:37
Ok i'm gonna tell you since you don't know - some pro (i don't know who, i think pita said it in his confession) contacted valve through twitter about this bug and valve has done nothing about it
2020-09-28 17:58
#125
 | 
Finland Jodecast
Everyone fucking know how well contacting valve directly has worked over the years. Brilliantly dont you think. You get things fixed if you make them public so that everyone knows
2020-09-28 18:00
true
2020-09-28 18:07
You don't have to talk to someone to agree with them. They saw an advantage, and wanting to continuing to abuse it, they kept their mouths shut. But hey, some people actually talk to together, so of course the bug spread out in 4 years.
2020-09-28 17:09
#114
 | 
Slovakia Daev0n
People were writing about it on twitter you are just too ignorant to see it. Take pita as an example. I really don't think a charity money stealer was the only guy who wrote something on twitter about it. Also he wrote a mail to valve how much more do you want?
2020-09-28 17:44
#118
 | 
Finland Jodecast
Please show me a tweet about it before 2020 made by a pro player/coach etc, gl because you wont find one
2020-09-28 17:46
#121
 | 
Slovakia Daev0n
Shouldn't contacting valve be enough?
2020-09-28 17:54
#123
 | 
Finland Jodecast
Because there is really no way to do it, considering how valve works as a company. Only way to get anything fixed is to make every player aware of it, why do you think they fixed the revolver so fast? Because everyone was crying about it, not because someone sent a email to valve.
2020-09-28 17:58
you can activate it unintentionally
2020-09-28 16:16
For me it's logical that who have been doing it intentionally would do it way more than just once or twice, like some.
2020-09-28 16:56
#19
 | 
Europe watdoink
I mean BIG players are still not banned, abusing a bug making a huge advantage for them. but if you stuck in that bug for a round you get banned for 10months at least LUL
2020-09-28 16:08
BIG players did nothing wrong and the bug was known and used months before the krakow major
2020-09-28 16:26
#40
 | 
Brazil MrLucas
its literally an intentional bug abuse, just because it was used before means that its not wrong?
2020-09-28 16:29
Valve said it's not wrong and PGL said it's not wrong so whats your problem?
2020-09-28 17:02
#69
 | 
Brazil Catatauu
just like this coach bug?
2020-09-28 16:50
and this bug was known too, so how u can be confident that ur opponents not using it right now? if anyone knows it mean anyone can use it, isn't it?
2020-09-28 16:56
Imagine comparing coach bug witch is basically an invisible big brother CCTV cam on the map with the jump bug lmao btw what about the smoke bug? radar bug? nvidia settings? There is a reason why the coach bug is punished and the other bugs are not.
2020-09-28 17:04
#105
 | 
Brazil Catatauu
all Big players was invisible also while doing the bug, also they abused it on major, much worse.
2020-09-28 17:23
That's your opinion and your opinion isn't relevant. The TO said it's ok and valve said it's ok. No one cares what you think.
2020-09-28 17:29
#108
 | 
Brazil Catatauu
Valve didnt had the balls.
2020-09-28 17:32
Yeah because they would have to ban the whole pro scene lmao. The bug was used by lots of players (Niko, shox etc.) and lots of teams. Almost everyone used it on mirage b and cache mid box. BIG just build their game around this bug and thats how it got attention.
2020-09-28 17:35
#79
 | 
Brazil ghcnvbkn
2020-09-28 16:57
#31
 | 
Portugal Agricultor
true
2020-09-28 16:18
Flair checks out
2020-09-28 16:18
Valve doesn't know hot to handle a game, their reason
2020-09-28 16:34
Many coaches reported the bug to the admin, and also to Valve. And still they were banned. Completely unfair. Most of them are legit and are being treated as cheaters.
2020-09-28 16:37
#53
 | 
Denmark Derige
I think they are doing the right thing so far. What i mean by that is find ALL cases of the bug that looks like abuse and now let coaches defend themselves. And if the coach actually can make a case that shows he didnt abuse it, then unban him. I havnt seen much but an example of a guy who i personally think shouldnt get punished is guerri.
2020-09-28 16:37
#56
 | 
Brazil lortBR
+1
2020-09-28 16:38
csgo needs a new engine, current one is full of bugs and cheat vulnerability
2020-09-28 16:40
I would insta switch to any game like CS.GO, which didn't have classes. I had hopes for valorant until i realized it had all these classes and shit. Fucking enough heroes shooters already, now they mix tactical and hero shooter into one. Not my type of game, i prefer one or the other. But their anticheat seems to be topnotch, and clearly had high priority from the very birth of the idea of Valorant.
2020-09-28 17:13
yeah valorant will slowly die off because of this. it will be the same old meta shit show we're used to in games like dota2. damn I didn't play valorant for a few months and when I come back there's this new op hero, changes to other heroes etc etc just gets boring
2020-09-28 17:22
#128
 | 
Europe watdoink
yeah same. when I saw the shooter part of the trailer i was so fucking hyped then the shit part hit in. freaking classes with skills. this game could be a cs killer but its a 1 max 2 years of joke like fortnite (they couldnt even keep the game alive with millions in prize pools LUL). CS is a buggy cheater filled shitshow, but my relationship with it is like the meme: "Fuck you and I'll see you tomorrow." (because there is no good other option)
2020-09-28 20:08
#67
 | 
Brazil YUB8
I think they're doing the right thing. even though it's clear some of the coaches didn't exploit the bug, they still should quit the game and report the issue. Maybe the time they're giving is too much but they should be punished nonetheless.
2020-09-28 16:48
+1 it's called the Esports INTEGRITY Commission if you find something that's an obvious exploit, you need to stop and report it right away. anyone who didn't do that must now face the music this isn't just about winning games, but actual real money being exchanged. imo there should be some legal ramifications as well. what if a winning team didn't use the bug? maybe other teams would have received more prize money and/or trophies. this is 100% cheating and needs to be treated as such.
2020-09-28 21:07
#72
 | 
Brazil Catatauu
True, many of them experienced the bug 1 round here, one there, these should be more analized. The ones that used like hard legion should be banned.
2020-09-28 16:52
#75
 | 
Portugal dracø
They failed when they started handing out bans without looking at the context. For instance: Dead gets 6.5 months, loord gets 6 months, robban gets 5.5 months. Loord actually reported it. Robban got the bug in a 16-1 loss and dead used it multiple times in multiple tournaments, some of them recent and is still denying it. But in the end the sentence is pretty much the same in all 3 cases lol.
2020-09-28 16:55
Dead is giving Brazil a super shitty reputation. Defending him as Brazilian will do nothing but give backlash to other Brazilians. What a fucking joke he is, honestly. I have more respect for thieves than liars. At least you know you lost something when people steal, but if they lie to you, they steal the truth, and you don't even know it.
2020-09-28 17:16
#102
 | 
Portugal dracø
Yeah, he can't change anything but he could at least take it like a man. Or if he actually believes himself to be innocent he could try to defende himself with actual evidences like guerri tried to do.
2020-09-28 17:19
#80
 | 
Finland ollli
They can appeal the ban if they think they were wrongly banned.
2020-09-28 16:59
#86
 | 
Brazil MrLucas
the problem with that is that most of them are being accused without any evidence that they actually abused and used the bug to their bennefit, they are getting accused for having it happening to them and not knowing how to react properly
2020-09-28 17:07
They didn't react at all dude. All they needed to do was write a message to a TO, and the ball would have rolled from there. But they didn't want their cake to be taken away, in case they got hungry later, so to speak.
2020-09-28 17:17
#81
 | 
North America 007DBR9
My take on this is anyone from now on caught using the bug should be perma banned and anyone that clearly swayed the outcome of a match should be temp banned
2020-09-28 17:00
I have a thread about this that im working on but here's some shit for you all to read 20% of evidence has been reviewed, leaving plenty of time for much more well known coaches such as xtqzzz, zews, zonic, keita and moses to be caught using it. More facts: Previous coach of Hard Legion "zoneR" used the bug in SIXTEEN GAMES. Former mouz coach Rejin used the bug in 7 games. 45% of Rejin's punishment was pardoned for admitting and working to discover and fix the bug. This means the full value of Rejins punishment was supposed to be nearly 41 months, LONGER THAN ZONER, and he used it HALF AS MUCH. Let's keep going. RobbaN and one of the FaZe members (rain) both say that he DID NOT speak for the ENTIRE MATCH due to the bug and FaZe went on to LOSE THE GAME 1-16. After experiencing the bug a second time, and confirming it was not a one-time thing, RobbaN reported the bug to ESL admins and they did nothing. Final statement: Several coaches reported the bug to both ESIC and TO's and nothing was made public or reported by them until the three original bans. Also, most of these one-time cases occurred YEARS AGO. For example, if RobbaN received his ban on the day he DISCOVERED THE BUG, he would have been able to serve his time 5 TIMES OVER by now. Fucking unreal decision making by ESIC, I hope coaches and organizations take action and sue / fight against this shitty mismanaged organization that knew about the bug for years according to others. What a shame.
2020-09-28 17:06
i totally agree with you. This case is shit. Not enough evidence were collected and yet they applied the sanctions.
2020-09-28 20:18
#93
 | 
Finland AleksiBOT
Valve is a joke. Bug has been there for years and they cant finf/fix it is fucking hilarious. Valve please delete your game and retire.
2020-09-28 17:10
#117
 | 
Slovakia Daev0n
They should just sell the game to someone who would care enough to fix the issues.
2020-09-28 17:45
they should take back from those teams all trophys and money prizes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
2020-09-28 17:11
and arrest all the players who knew about the bug!!!!!11
2020-09-28 20:58
exactly
2020-09-29 17:41
Pierre corno
2020-09-28 17:13
+1 Cd48 where are you? :V
2020-09-28 17:19
Yes PierreGabriel
2020-09-28 17:20
#107
 | 
Brazil oldStar
Valve's fault.
2020-09-28 17:32
Heres the thing ur competing in a tourny ur supposed to knowwhat to do
2020-09-28 17:33
It the coaches fault, why they did not say anything to Valve, even on twitter. They accept to use it, it a cheat and they deserve bans.
2020-09-28 17:41
#116
 | 
Slovakia Daev0n
pita?
2020-09-28 17:45
it the only one but even tho tell me if im wrong he only dm valve he didn't made a public statement on twiiter
2020-09-28 17:47
so many coaches reported the bug to different tournament admins, valve and ESIC themselves. no response until bans got dished out. power trip by ESIC in my opinion
2020-09-28 20:59
the only coach who reported the bug to valve was pita
2020-09-29 17:25
robban reported to esl admins during an event.
2020-09-29 18:13
Cry is free !! Use the bug, get banned, pretty simple and fair.
2020-09-28 17:44
They realized something wasnt right and instead of doing something about it they went ahead and used whether it benefited them or not it gave them an upper hand so cry a little more about how unfair it is.
2020-09-28 17:48
Guerri main cypher
2020-09-28 18:02
kkkkkkkkk
2020-09-28 21:01
#130
 | 
Israel tomnduck
welcome to life its how it works
2020-09-28 20:12
#140
Dosia | 
Russia Rapu
But it doesn't work. Many orgs will ignore the ESIC decision.
2020-09-29 17:34
Thos whole process is a joke. People getting banned without any sort of information given or based investigations despite POV demos. Theres no proff whatsoever if the coach provided the players information or not. Theres a big processual problem where not all the evidences were collected and yet bans were applied.
2020-09-28 20:14
I knew the flag before clicking!
2020-09-28 21:01
Eclipse
1.46
ImPerium
2.61
FATE
1.23
AVEZ
4.18
Sinners
1.27
GamerS1337
3.56
Bet value
Amount of money to be placed
Winning
Odds total ratio
-
Login or register to add your comment to the discussion.