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FP2 haters please come
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Sweden Lagge15 
What are your biggest concerns with Flashpoint In general, and Season 2 in specific? Trying to gather as much compliaints as possible. Because I feel there is a huge gap of information between Site B and the general audience
2020-10-27 12:47
Topics are hidden when running Sport mode.
Thorin big buli((((
2020-10-27 12:48
2 replies
#7
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Sweden Lagge15
So one employee is enough for you to hate it? What about Blast Premiere Spring?
2020-10-27 12:51
1 reply
Thorin big buli((((
2020-10-27 13:01
#2
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United Kingdom the_NDR
It's Literally a CGS repeat. Can't end well, franchised Leagues don't work.
2020-10-27 12:49
17 replies
#9
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Sweden Lagge15
Sorry for being a new fag: CGS?
2020-10-27 12:52
12 replies
#24
HS | 
Estonia qoznyyy
Championship Gaming Series
2020-10-27 12:58
liquipedia.net/counterstrike/Championshi.. It was a CS source franchised league which collapsed (I only remember it because it was one of the only things UKCS won)
2020-10-27 13:01
10 replies
#34
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Sweden Lagge15
Ok, but hat was in a less stable scene
2020-10-27 13:16
9 replies
#37
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United Kingdom the_NDR
1.6 was relatively stable before CGS caused many players to look for easy money. CGS collapsed overnight due to 2008, ESL/ESEA Promotion/Relegation has survived several market downturns, meanwhile flashpoint struggled on launch and only looks marginally better now . Coupled with the release of Valorant, flashpoint can only add to the chaos surrounding the CS scene especially in NA.
2020-10-27 13:44
8 replies
#40
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Sweden Lagge15
Please enlighten me. Why wouldn't they use it as a lessons learned?
2020-10-27 15:19
7 replies
#41
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United Kingdom the_NDR
Flashpoint is backed by American and Chinese investors, the exact kind of people who have caused virtually every market crash by not learning from their mistakes.
2020-10-27 15:20
6 replies
#57
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Sweden Lagge15
Some valid point, but it is only invested by the teams/orgs and not by separate VCs
2020-10-27 15:34
4 replies
#66
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United Kingdom the_NDR
Several people and companies have invested in flashpoint, I can no longer find the source, but I remember HP's Meg Whitman was among them.
2020-10-27 15:39
3 replies
#70
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Sweden Lagge15
Maybe as sponsors but not a real investors.
2020-10-27 15:41
2 replies
#77
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United Kingdom the_NDR
I just checked, but most of the B-site team's parent companies have a repertoire of notable American businessmen and women on their boards and holding significant stakes in the teams, hence the investment. (Overactive Media Group, Immortals Gaming Club, Cloud 9, GenG, EnVyUs, and C0ntact Gaming all fit this bill)
2020-10-27 15:45
1 reply
#81
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Sweden Lagge15
Not surprised since that is how most NA esports is run
2020-10-27 15:47
Thank god ESL and Blast are fully free leagues :D
2020-10-27 16:51
this is not at all similar to CGS? It also has qualifiers and is run by people far more competent and understanding of the scene. Also, in CGS it was literally like 10x the budget with garbage formats combining multiple Counter Strike games
2020-10-27 15:39
#98
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Finland Jodecast
Says that to lol
2020-10-27 16:22
CGS was 12 years ago. It was an entirely different game with astronomically smaller players, viewers, and scene. The reason CGS killed the NA scene was that there were no other tournament organizers that could compete with them. Now we have Blast, ESL, and Starladder who are all equally as well funded. A big part of flashpoint's model was to have the players with them in the studio to build up storylines, create content, and find a way to monetize CS:GO because TO's are currently dumping millions of dollars and running at a loss. Flashpoint also only wants to run 2 tournaments a year. The model also makes it so teams have an incentive to have the best players and teams possible because they will be fined hundreds of thousands of dollars if they aren't at the top20. So instead of orgs not spending money to get that star player, they will just buy him and not have to pay the fine for being a bad team.
2020-10-27 17:02
1 reply
#126
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Sweden Lagge15
You're ruining this thread! I wanted the hate not the logical and well-read opinions! Stahp using facts and logic
2020-10-27 17:24
Besides less top teams compared to esl and blast,there is nothing wrong with flashpoint
2020-10-27 12:49
4 replies
+1
2020-10-27 12:52
#11
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Sweden Lagge15
So no real complaints then?
2020-10-27 12:52
#63
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France LorisDF
agreed
2020-10-27 15:37
flashpoint with big teams >>>>
2020-10-27 15:52
I don't really like the format Also they tried to make it look like a bigger deal than it actually was
2020-10-27 12:52
3 replies
#13
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Sweden Lagge15
What about the format is the issue? Because they haven't been able to use the format they wanted due to Covid
2020-10-27 12:53
2 replies
I don't like the double group phase
2020-10-27 12:54
1 reply
#21
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Sweden Lagge15
Ok. Won't be there in FP2
2020-10-27 12:55
#5
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Asia loveall
Not many good teams. Most of the top teams not playing. That's it. No hate.
2020-10-27 12:50
6 replies
#16
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Sweden Lagge15
So only the level of competition?
2020-10-27 12:53
5 replies
#22
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United Kingdom OllieUK
Didnt they manage to snipe a few ESL teams like Fnatic?
2020-10-27 12:56
1 reply
#42
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Sweden Lagge15
Fnatic was the only ESL partner. OG is a Blast Premier partner. big Isn't partnered with anyone
2020-10-27 15:20
#23
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Asia loveall
Yes. I don't have much problem with anything else also they are showing something new this time so let's see how that goes. And I know many people hate thorin because frankly he is an idiot but because of him we can't dislike whole tournament.
2020-10-27 12:57
2 replies
#43
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Sweden Lagge15
Yeah. He is just an employee
2020-10-27 15:20
people shouldn't hate the tournament just because of him but they do. go figure...
2020-10-27 15:56
#6
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Slovakia xaboff
i hate free practice 2, i think we should just stick with the format used in Imola, as three fp sessions give the teams tooo much info to have an unpredictable race
2020-10-27 12:51
5 replies
#8
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Italy davvasti
+1
2020-10-27 12:52
S B I N A L L A
2020-10-27 12:53
#17
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Sweden Lagge15
Woosh me
2020-10-27 12:53
+1 we need more randomness in the sport, but if you had friends who believed Bottas would win the sport is 10x better as HAM stole pole
2020-10-27 15:40
i think there should be 2 free practices since with 1 free practice it’s difficult for teams to get testing on all tires but with 3 there is no randomness
2020-10-27 15:54
#12
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France Poloqua
Actual promotional actions are so freakin annoying, like its a david vs goliath with this ginger dickhead vs people that don't give a single fuck
2020-10-27 12:53
5 replies
#18
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Sweden Lagge15
Please elaborate i don't get it more than you dislike one of their employees
2020-10-27 12:54
4 replies
#31
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France Poloqua
that's kinda it tbh, but this fucker is so annoying with this shit that i can't think of another thing when i hear about flashpoint
2020-10-27 13:04
3 replies
#45
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Sweden Lagge15
That's kinda weird. Did you stop watching DH because Scrawny was annoyingly bad or EPL because Spunj, Pansy and Machine was borderline burnt out?
2020-10-27 15:22
2 replies
#119
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France Poloqua
dunno i watch french stream xd
2020-10-27 16:47
1 reply
#124
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Sweden Lagge15
So why not doing that with FP? I think they leave the IP open to people who apply to cast it in other languages than English
2020-10-27 17:22
#15
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Italy davvasti
-Thorin - Overrated league - Format - Teams - Should stayed with the ECS tournaments
2020-10-27 12:53
5 replies
#20
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Sweden Lagge15
Overrated? What about the format? What about the teams? Ecs and Flashpoint isn't the same, you know that? This isn't a FaceIt league
2020-10-27 12:55
4 replies
#27
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Italy davvasti
- The best teams are in Pro League - It´s like a second blast tournament - Flashpoint has a big prize but it´s not attractive enough for teams and fans
2020-10-27 13:00
1 reply
#46
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Sweden Lagge15
Why wulndt ESL partners play in both? MIBR played in both Fp1 and EPL S11 and Fnatic is playing in FP2, even though they are ESL partner. OG is Blast partner. Why do you think it is like Blast? I would say they are quite far apart Why not?
2020-10-27 15:24
#29
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Europe tete4761
overrated because it has a huge prize pool but the teams are bad. Only decent teams are BIG, OG and FNC, MIBR plays there so kekw
2020-10-27 13:02
1 reply
#47
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Sweden Lagge15
They pay themselves for the prize pool, so what about Wesg who had the same prize pool but Windigo won. I don't recall them getting nearly as much (if any) shit
2020-10-27 15:25
#25
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Russia VelsVivard
The tier of teams, desk... or should I say, bar talent? But props for the enthusiasm and original HUDs. I also will be missing Hugo and Harry as they're tied to another one.
2020-10-27 12:58
17 replies
#30
cyx | 
South Africa bonkaz
How could anyone miss Hugo and Harry, especially if stunna is in the mix, too? Every third sentence is pure cringe.
2020-10-27 13:02
4 replies
#35
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Russia VelsVivard
It's hard to bear stunna there with them but the greatness of two makes him somewhat bearable, they're too good together so anyone missing out will seem okay.
2020-10-27 13:37
3 replies
#49
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Europe tete4761
Harry and Hugo are cringe af, only scrawny and Launders can be worse
2020-10-27 15:26
2 replies
#62
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Russia VelsVivard
Don't you dare putting them in the same line, how are they cringe if they actually enjoy together and have a great synergy together, since they're good friends I believe. Harry is small and well spoken, Hugo is very passionate about the game and has a soothing voice.
2020-10-27 15:36
1 reply
#153
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Europe tete4761
no I'm not putting them in the same line, Stunna is much better
2020-10-27 19:36
#48
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Sweden Lagge15
You don't like DDK, Maui snake, Barsolph and Anders? They haven't even released who I'll be talent in the event. So how is that an argument?
2020-10-27 15:35
5 replies
#59
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Russia VelsVivard
Argument? I'm not the one who wants to argue over one's preferences here, I'm telling you what I like and why. And no, I don't dislike any of those.
2020-10-27 15:35
4 replies
#61
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Sweden Lagge15
You dislike the talent before the talent has been announced... You don't see the error there?
2020-10-27 15:36
3 replies
#64
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Russia VelsVivard
I dislike the lineup that was in the first season, how would I dislike something that is not even there yet? Given it will be familiar faces, plus minus one or two people, no reason to change mind as the major guests most likely remain. And you want to create a fuss over nothing, I didn't come to argue here.
2020-10-27 15:37
2 replies
#67
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Sweden Lagge15
What if they signed all your favorite casters and analysts? Monte said they would have lots of talent there. Who didn't you like in FP1?
2020-10-27 15:39
1 reply
#73
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Russia VelsVivard
Then it wouldn't be an issue to me anymore, but the lack of established teams will always be the deciding factor here, they're lacking some big names. I didn't like potter, Maniac, Sean and Mauisnake, didn't catch up with Monte, he's the one in question too.
2020-10-27 15:42
#75
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France LorisDF
Interesting, personally I like Flashpoint's talent way more than ESL's.
2020-10-27 15:44
4 replies
#79
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Russia VelsVivard
It's a good alternative, I like a bunch of them but some of them are too much for me to lean towards their side.
2020-10-27 15:45
3 replies
#80
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France LorisDF
Who don't you like in Flashpoint? I'm just curious
2020-10-27 15:47
2 replies
#82
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Russia VelsVivard
Maniac, Sean, Mauisnake, potter and potentially Monte Cristo, can't get along with them, something is telling me there's something wrong, I differentiate with them too much.
2020-10-27 15:48
1 reply
#85
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Sweden Lagge15
Then it makes sense to me, what you said earlier. Because I think all of them are signed for FP2 and Most likely FP3 and 4 as well
2020-10-27 15:51
#156
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Sweden Lagge15
I rewatched the qualifier for FP2 to see the HUD. I would say it looks nice. It is quite simple, easy on the eyes colors and generally a good HUD But I can think some people think it is too big and others thinking it is too small. In my opinion it is he best out of the three big TOs
2020-10-28 09:29
#32
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Slovakia Reve_nant
League run by two of the biggest hypocrites in scene = Thorin and Monte Shitty teams, highest rated franchised team is GenG at 28, lol They rely on invites and qualifiers to get decent teams, considering quality of franchised teams, I surprised more decent teams didnt try to qualify They made promises, they did not fulfill "Analysts" But mainly Thorin/Monte with their behaviour on twitter and their hypocritical shitting on ESL and their teams, while not critizing Flashpoint at any point during their fuck ups, even though they said they would. To put is simply and shortly.
2020-10-27 13:08
6 replies
#50
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Sweden Lagge15
It isnt ran by them. They are employees just like Spunj is for ESL
2020-10-27 15:26
1 reply
#118
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Slovakia Reve_nant
Monte is commissioner, it is safe to say he runs the league. For your another reply. I dont care Thorin is the harshest to those teams. My point is, he only talks about ESL, shit on them for almost everything, while being quiet about every fuckup Flashpoint does. In January/February he tweeted (now probably deleted) he will criticize Flashpoint as much as ESL if they deserve it. SInce he have not any bad word about Flashpoint, even if he had enough opportunities. Problems with open qualifier? - not a single word Promises no timer between matches, broadcast will be full of content. They did not do it even for grand final - not a single word No top10 teams, while Dan Fiden openly talks about wanting at least 2 or 3 of them - talk about it, but not in a bad way/criticism Sound issues at first 3 days - not a single word FPX fiasco - tried to shift a blame towards Astralis, instead of criticizing FPX Not getting all 10 franchised teams - not a single word Currently not a single franchised team is in top25 - not a single word, insted of it he brags about invited and qualified teams Bragging about viewership higher than EPL, while there was live match on Flashpoint, while EPL was on break When found out about viewbotting (embedding on Faceit site) - tried to shift criticism towards ESL, while they stopped it, Flashpoint keep with viewbotting and still bragging about numbers. There is difference between 3k (EPL) and 36K (Flashpoint). Same as Monte. Conflict of interest in their teams (RMR related) - one tweet, when he said he will instruct teams, so this wont happen, nothing changed after that. FPX has no team - praises them for their GM Thats just only a few examples I remember. If he put his energy and time into Flashpoint, instead of talking about EPL, maybe they would get better teams. Edit: In another post, you said want to make video about Flashpoint. Here are some examples why I dont like it. It is not just Thorin or Monte, you can also here what I dont like about it generally. Another reason why I dont like watching Flashpoint is Potter. She is below average analyst, she does basic analysis, keep repeating basic phrases, talks about things everyone knows. Yet she is praised by many. Especially her prediction: Team X wins, because their Inferno is nuts, while having 30% winrate on it is perfect example of why I think she should not be there. Edit 2: Also I dislike, they talk about creating content, new features, etc. Casual fan doesnt care about it. I would not call myself casual, but I dont care about their content, while it is their main selling point. To make it clear, I like their effort, I dont like their constant talking about it.
2020-10-27 16:57
#51
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Sweden Lagge15
Who has been harsher on ex-C9, MAD Lions and MIBR than Thorin?
2020-10-27 15:29
3 replies
+1
2020-10-27 17:05
#145
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North America SeaTurt13
If c9 thought that picking up atk was going to make them "best na", I need to get them to hook me up with what they are smoking. Mald lions has made some absolutely braindead decisions, no excuses. Mibr is just a disappointment to anyone who remembers what they used to be, the fear they put into other teams, the time and effort they put into helping out the Brazilian scene. It is so sad to think about what they have become
2020-10-27 18:11
1 reply
#146
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Sweden Lagge15
I don't think anyone disagree with you there. That's not the point. I was just responding to "But mainly Thorin/Monte with their behaviour on twitter and their hypocritical shitting on ESL and their teams, while not critizing Flashpoint at any point during their fuck ups, even though they said they would."
2020-10-27 18:16
Hosts open qualifier days before closed qualifier Invites teams that didn’t make it through said open qualifier to closed qualifier
2020-10-27 13:16
1 reply
#52
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Sweden Lagge15
That is an issue but I think that has happened in other events as well
2020-10-27 15:30
flashpoint run by thorin (known racist) and then come out innocently asking why no one like flashpoint? not to mention low caliber of teams and talent. what did they expect?
2020-10-27 13:41
24 replies
#53
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Sweden Lagge15
Please elaborate these two claims: 1) Thorin runs the event 2) Thorin is a racist
2020-10-27 15:31
23 replies
hahhahahha
2020-10-27 15:53
1) He doesnt run it but hes the face of it. i was making a joke about the fact that he is very vocal about his thoughts on it. 2) Called poland a shit hole, called brazillians monkeys etc.
2020-10-27 15:57
21 replies
#94
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Sweden Lagge15
1) Monte is the face of it 2) he didn't call Brazilians monkeys. He implied that Potter did. And the Polish hing was Fully warrented at the time
2020-10-27 16:00
12 replies
1) literally not any better. 2) Bald face lie. pbs.twimg.com/media/DUGYVTgX4AMqZBG.jpg btw u are not here to learn other peoples position, u are here to argue with everyone. take your shittyy agenda post elsewhere.
2020-10-27 16:18
11 replies
#96
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Sweden Lagge15
No I try to learn but most people use premises that that is either false, unwarranted or just wrong. I do it because I will make a video about Flashpoint as I wanna cover as many concerns as possible But it is impossible since I barely understand the issues people got with Flashpoint
2020-10-27 16:20
6 replies
if you want to make a video, then research in an unbiased way instead you seem to have yyour opinion already made up and are searching for facts to back it up instead of looking at all the facts first BEFORE making a conclusion.
2020-10-27 16:26
5 replies
#108
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Sweden Lagge15
That's why I made the thread but besides people hating horin and the teams being shit I don't see any "stand points"
2020-10-27 16:28
4 replies
does it not make sense that if a notable figure in the organisation is detestable that people would avoid said organisation?
2020-10-27 16:30
3 replies
#114
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Sweden Lagge15
Whether he is or isn't is up for debate. Being a edgy person who loves being in the center of attention create this friction. But I don't think it is valid to HATE a 4 season league because of it as being rational. You may hate him and opt to not watch the event because you are a little snowflake who can't grasp the difference between what he say and how he say it, is valid. But hating the event is irrational behavior if this is the basis for it
2020-10-27 16:34
2 replies
right. im not here to argue with you. you wanted opinions, which i provided mine and some backing facts which you simply cant understand. theres little point in me arguing with you as your mind is already made up and now you are resorting to insulting me.
2020-10-27 16:36
1 reply
#154
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Sweden Lagge15
Sorry, missed this comment somehow. That was my mistake. I used "you" as a generic term here, and wasn't aimed directly at you as a person. But I see this all the time within CSGO. Not only with Thorin, even though he is the most noticable one, where people rather listen to HOW a person approach a subject or how they are as a public persona, rather than the information they try to convey. People hate on Pimp, not because he is wrong so often, but because of his accent. People like FalleN, because of his persona (also helps to have a legends status) no matter what stupid stuff he say or do. So being sensitive about jokes, tasteless or not, and judge a person for a few instances, instead of just condemning the instances, and listen to both the stuff you agree with and disagree with, is to me blatantly stupid. I learn more from listening to people I disagree with than people I do agree with. You can check a lot of my other threads (perhaps not the most recent ones), where I rather interact with people disagreeing with me, rather than the one singing me praises or just building up my arguments.
2020-10-27 19:53
#97
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Sweden Lagge15
Also again: he doesn't call them monkeys, he imply that Potter was referring to them as monkeys
2020-10-27 16:21
3 replies
No he didnt, u are so caught up just trying to protect thorin that you dont even know the aftermath of that tweet. i suggest u research everything first before you come out with these defenses. no offense to you if this comes off wrong but judging by your flair you are swedish, and english is not your first language but in the tweet, sue (NOT POTTER btw wtf?) is referring to faze and thoring jokes that its actually LG (the brazillians) that are monkeys. he doesnt make a mistake or imply that SUE was referring to them
2020-10-27 16:24
2 replies
#104
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Sweden Lagge15
No he is inferring that she calls LG monkeys He never does it he just imply that she is a racist.
2020-10-27 16:26
1 reply
this isnt getting anywhere because you simply cannot understand the context. this isnt even a debate, thorin himself would be on my side of this argument. you are totally wrong here.
2020-10-27 16:27
#99
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Finland Jodecast
Dude poland is a shithole lmao, but image being mad about that
2020-10-27 16:23
7 replies
you see its okay for some random hltv user to make that joke behind anonymity but for a vocal face of a tournament/organisation to be openly racist is strictly not okay, at least in my opinion.
2020-10-27 16:25
6 replies
#103
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Finland Jodecast
Dude how is calling a country poor based on reality = racist?????? Sorry I have to tell you but its not
2020-10-27 16:26
5 replies
4 replies
#111
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Finland Jodecast
Still not racism dude, if a place is poor then its fucking poor, are you going to claim that brazil for example is not a shithole?
2020-10-27 16:30
3 replies
as i said before, my claims on a countries status are irrelevant as im not a community figure, im simply an anonymous voice. i said in my opinion is not okayy for a community figure to make such brazen comments.
2020-10-27 16:32
2 replies
#113
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Finland Jodecast
Still you claim its racism even while its not, get some sense of reality, ofc its the nicest thing to say but its not fucking racism...
2020-10-27 16:33
1 reply
i'll concede that they arent truly racist but i stand by the fact that they are inappropriate comments nonetheless
2020-10-27 16:34
where to even begin...... well let's see: - Teams who failed during the open qualifier suddenly got invited to the closed qualifier anyways (this happened in season 1 as well, in fact in season 1 a team that first failed the open qualifier got invited to the closed qualifier, then after failing the closed qualifier they got a direct invite to the event anyways LOL) - They made a statement before their first season that they would surely sign 10 partnered teams. Then it became 8 and now since FPX is out it's 7. To make up for this complete failure they handed out direct invites to other teams (fnatic, oG and BIG) essentially fucking over the partnered teams who payed 2 mio. $ to participate lmfao - Oh and the fact that they have clowns like Thorin as creative director: "ESL schedules on top of Flashpoint on purpose".... later on "Oh wait it was actually the other way around my bad....", you can't have this big of a dishonest clown in such a position, it just doesnt work. He hurts the tournament a lot more than what he provides.
2020-10-27 13:56
1 reply
#54
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Sweden Lagge15
First two legitimate things
2020-10-27 15:32
I don't particularly hate it as ESL definitely needs competitor, I just dislike how franchise league work. The way I see it B site notices that there were many NA LoL orgs who wanted to enter CSGO scene but too lazy to properly compete & wanted some kind of safety net, so they dropped ECS and offered these orgs a franchise league scheme.
2020-10-27 14:09
16 replies
#55
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Sweden Lagge15
Good points but if that's the case wouldn't FP lose teams right now?
2020-10-27 15:32
15 replies
What do you mean by FP lose teams?
2020-10-27 17:24
14 replies
#128
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Sweden Lagge15
I mean that if the idea was to "lure" orgs from NA and AS into CSGO, shouldn't Gen.G and FPX leave CSGO now? BTW, dunnot why I missed this first time I read your comment: Flashpoint was announced months before ECS season 8 was played and about 3-4 months before FaceIt said they stopped the ECS. ECS was run by FaceIt, while Flashpoint is run by Flashpoint, so I don't see any reason why ECS is compared to Flashpoint more than the servers and some sponsors.
2020-10-27 17:27
4 replies
"ECS was run by FaceIt, while Flashpoint is run by Flashpoint" I just check Liquipedia and both tourney was run by Faceit. Although for Flashpoint they run it together with B Site. (Well I should've write Faceit instead of B Site in my original post. My bad.) "I mean that if the idea was to "lure" orgs from NA and AS into CSGO, shouldn't Gen.G and FPX leave CSGO now?" Both Gen G's founder and CEO are US Citizen so they still count as NA org. Only FPX is Chinese. But my point is majority Flashpoint founders orgs are mainly big in LoL and they seemingly prefer franchise model compared to ESL's open circuit. I mean, if they are willing to compete 'properly' they would've went Vitality/Team Secret route of climbing the ESEA wall instead of paying spot for Flashpoint.
2020-10-27 17:44
3 replies
#140
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Sweden Lagge15
Nah, Flashpoint got FaceIt as an employee or as a partner/technical supervisor. While ECS was fully owned by FaceIt. That's the difference. Flashpoint owned by B site which is owned by the Partnered teams, and 0.05% by FaceIt I never said they aren't NA orgs. I just say that even though Gen.G got bigger issues in CSGO than EG and 100 Thieves, they stick around, which show that they got bigger faith in Flashpoint than their ESL counterparts. I just think it is easier to get orgs who see the benefits for a Franchise league from other esports. When it comes to "new" orgs almost all of the ones who got into CSGO come from LoL. I made a point about this in a blog post about Dignitas. I can link if you wanna read it.
2020-10-27 17:59
2 replies
Well Faceit killed ECS because they wanted to focus on Flashpoint, so I believe my point still stand. About your other statement, I already answered it in #138
2020-10-27 18:03
1 reply
#143
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Sweden Lagge15
Nope because Flashpoint killed ECS before they were attached to Flashpoint!
2020-10-27 18:08
#131
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Sweden Lagge15
or to change the approach: Didn't EG reporedly wanna get out of CSGO, and 100 Thieves already left. Both ESL partners and Blast Premier Partners. While Gen.G didn't even leave even thought their IGL and future top prospect left. FPX doesn't leave even though they missed out on at least 2 rosters. Seems like the orgs that got experience in a lot of esports games feel Flashpoint makes more sense than ESL
2020-10-27 17:32
8 replies
Pretty sure EG's CEO already dispelled the rumour and 100T is simply unwilling to continue to invest in CSGO. "Seems like the orgs that got experience in a lot of esports games feel Flashpoint makes more sense than ESL" Well, the thing is unlike ESL and Blast which is open circuit/partially open circuit, FP is a franchise league which mean FPX already paid around 2M upfront. So it would be stupid for them to just quit before even tried. Granted forcing commitment from orgs is a good part from franchise league. What I hate about it is how the model is against standard competitive integrity.
2020-10-27 17:59
7 replies
#144
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Sweden Lagge15
oh yeah I agree with that. But it is also more open than ESL. Flashpoint got 2 Qualifying spots each season, and invites are just because they have't found the last partner teams yet. So for a new or smaller org it is "easier" to get to Flashpoint than to any ESL event.
2020-10-27 18:10
6 replies
If you mean ESL Pro Leagues then yes, it's kinda closed. But ESL also organizes IEM events which have open qualifier, not so different from Flashpoint. I mean, I hate franchise league, but yeah Flashpoint isn't that bad because their model is not 'pure' since they still have qualifier and invites, which may motivate the members further.
2020-10-27 18:23
5 replies
#148
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Sweden Lagge15
Most ESL events, doesn't matter which one, invites often goes to partnered teams or to ESL ranking, which makes it harder for teams to enter. As an older event host and a much broader event organizer it also get bigger qualifiers which makes it harder for newer teams to go through open qualifiers
2020-10-27 18:26
4 replies
Well as I said before you could climb the rank from ESEA MDL and then you'll be one of the top dog on ESL Pro League and may enjoy invites as long as you're not relegated. It's hard yes but as Ence and Vitality shown it's not impossible. It's meritocracy afterall. Meanwhile it's impossible for you to be a member Flashpoint unless you pay the expensive entrance fee, meaning you'll rely on invites or qualifier. In the meantime the permanent member may perform poorly and still play because they paid for it. "it also get bigger qualifiers " Liquipedia states that both Flashpoint and IEM Open Qualifiers involved around 500 teams, so not really.
2020-10-27 18:52
3 replies
#150
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Sweden Lagge15
yeah. but to go through the whole ESL/ESEA route, it would take 2 years, at least. unless you can get invite to MDL, like Vitality.
2020-10-27 18:51
2 replies
Well I guess that's one of the pros of franchise model: it's more interesting for richer orgs because it gives them instant access to be the top dog. But as a viewer I prefer the open circuit because I know that they are the top dogs because they spend the time and efforts to climb the wall, not because they are rich. Anyway I've stated why I dislike franchise league while admitting some of its good point, so good day to you.
2020-10-27 19:10
1 reply
#152
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Sweden Lagge15
I think you need the qualifying spots for a franchise league to work. Otherwise you can't say "this team is the best" because perhaps it is someone outside of that franchise to not show their worth. CSGO got a great scene in that sense (not in 2020 and 2021) where you get multiple TO's so you can see who is the best over time. But the ESL (and most other TO's approach) only would make sense with a better ranking system. We saw Virtus.Pro, MIBR and ENCE keep their ranking spots due to just being invited, due to their high ranking spots, even though all 3 of them wen't 4 months without winning a single BO3 against a notable team. The decay in rankings should be better for us to be certain the best teams get invited.
2020-10-27 19:22
#44
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United Kingdom OGtop1
I cannot stand a single second of thorin being on my screen
2020-10-27 15:21
1 reply
#56
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Sweden Lagge15
So Blast and ESL in the past? Starladder? Almost all big events at least at one point in the past
2020-10-27 15:33
nothing wrong with it gonna watch it and hf let's go VP
2020-10-27 15:34
Why would you hate F1 free practice 2?? That's the best 1 of the 3 practice sessions... Do you retard)))
2020-10-27 15:35
dog shit
2020-10-27 15:40
1 reply
#72
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Sweden Lagge15
Well out. I can truelly see how FP can improve now
2020-10-27 15:41
#71
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Netherlands NotJuan
Too much marketing for a tier4 event
2020-10-27 15:41
3 replies
#74
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Sweden Lagge15
Tier 4 with almost as many top 30 teams as all other events
2020-10-27 15:42
2 replies
#76
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Netherlands NotJuan
oh so tier5 then
2020-10-27 15:44
1 reply
#155
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Sweden Lagge15
If you take EPL season 3 (couldn't find ranking for 1 and 2 because lazy atm) you see 6 non-ranked teams. That is 1/4 teams being unranked, same as Flashpoint 2 I see Cloud9 and MIBR got ranks, but the ranking detail is just pure blank: hltv.org/ranking/teams/2020/october/19/d.. hltv.org/ranking/teams/2020/october/19/d.. Then the rest is top 30. How is this Tier5? How does your tier list work?
2020-10-27 20:01
it's production is much better but and i like how the teams could talk shit and stuff but i feel like the main reason why ppl don't like it is because of the teams that attend it like how they aren't good enough or some shit idk man i like it
2020-10-27 15:45
3 replies
#83
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Sweden Lagge15
So how could a new league not get teams like this (or worse) in this climate? I actually think it just is Thorin haters and viewers who think FaZe is a successful org
2020-10-27 15:48
2 replies
i'm not sure dude, i'm just assuming why they hate it cuz i like Flash point
2020-10-27 15:50
1 reply
#87
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Sweden Lagge15
Same here. That's why I made this thread to get why people dislike FP
2020-10-27 15:52
THE GOD DAMN HUD i cant see shit with all the glowing models
2020-10-27 15:53
1 reply
#91
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Sweden Lagge15
I didn't actually react to it at all, and I hate most custom huds
2020-10-27 15:55
lol I read the title as F2P Haters as in Free To Play haters.
2020-10-27 16:26
1 reply
#106
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Sweden Lagge15
That's another topic and a more valid one
2020-10-27 16:27
I think FP would be more stable if the best teams who can maintain a top roster for long periods of time were actually the same as the orgs who created the FP franchise. With teams getting fined for not being in top20, and then some participating orgs losing key pieces or not having a roster, it could fuck things up
2020-10-27 16:44
5 replies
#123
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Sweden Lagge15
IIrc the fines will get distributed to the teams that are in top 20.
2020-10-27 17:20
4 replies
I am pretty sure that it is any member team not in the top 20 will be fined 100,000USD. Which is worrying because of Envy, Dignitas, MIBR, C9, mad lions, gen.g, c0ntact, DIG, and FPX all currently outside of that mark (though imo C9, MAD Lions, and FPX if they sign godsent could all get into the top 20) Unless the teams inside the league are good enough to draw other teams in and make a very profitable enterprise for those involved, it can't last. However, like for FP2, if they invite big teams, then it gives the FP member teams time on air w/ viewers that they might not have otherwise, which is money, and also a chance for rosters to improve their rankings if they win
2020-10-27 17:40
3 replies
#136
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Sweden Lagge15
There is a caveat for the Fines. Monte have talked a bit about it, but it hasn't been fully explained AFAIK But for instance I doubt they will fine c0ntact, MAD Lions, Gen.G and maybe not DIG, Envy, Cloud9 and MIBR either, because they have done roster changes to try and get better for the future. But that is a bit arbitrary part of what they've talked about. What is a forced roster move and what is a roster move to get better? Who determines whether or not it is a good or not roster change? The whole thing will be a long term project, and first 2 years will just be proof of concept. I am fairly certain they expect all/most teams to be top 20 as long as they play long enough. FP2 got Fnatic (high rank, many profiles, many fans), OG (many fans, big org and loveable roster) and BIG who got a lot of fans. All of these teams should be good enough to get to semifinals, but that isn't a given. Which to me just make the league better.
2020-10-27 17:48
2 replies
I believe those 3 teams are coming to the event but are not a part of the franchise yet, though I might have read that wrong
2020-10-27 17:56
1 reply
#142
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Sweden Lagge15
oh I must have misinterpreted you. They can't sign Fnatic as a partner unless Fnatic leave ESL. Because it is literally impossible to be parntered with both unless you got a 10+ man roster. Too many events in too short time. BIG can do it, and I think they are invited mainly to show that Flashpoint doesn't hold a grudge. BIG qualified for FP1 but left right before the event started because of EPL Invite due to the Covid issues making EPL regional. OG is only partnered with Blast, and that Partnership ends after Blast Global Finals (or W/e the name is), and that means they will be eligable for 2021. So maybe. I think Flashpoint would go for Furia, because they haven't partnered yet, and Heroic, but I doubt Heroic is rich enough to buy into the franchise
2020-10-27 18:08
probs been said, but i think people dont like it because of the lack of "top tier teams".
2020-10-27 17:26
3 replies
#129
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Sweden Lagge15
But that makes literally no sense. Flashpoint 1 had 50% within top 30 Flashpoint 2 seems to be better than FP1 So then why hate the league? But with this development Flashpoint 4 (last one planned atm) should have 11-12 top 30 teams, which is the same as Blast got.
2020-10-27 17:30
2 replies
i have nothing against it. ill be watching all the games, but i think its thorin + the teams that make some people idslike it.
2020-10-27 17:32
1 reply
#132
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Sweden Lagge15
Seems like it is just prejudice against Thorin, and not even a rational one at that.
2020-10-27 17:32
FP really needs some member teams like C9, MAD Lions, maybe FPX once they sign their team, possibly this new MIBR lineup, to start performing at a high level and break into high rankings. That high level of competition as well as the large prize pools will bring more teams and viewership to their events, and possibly into the FP Franchise.
2020-10-27 17:41
1 reply
#137
 | 
Sweden Lagge15
I think the basic idea of Flashpoint is that ALL partnered teams will have teams that at least contend for top 20. Otherwise the fine rule would make little to no sense.
2020-10-27 17:49
OG
2.01
BIG
1.83
MAD Lions
3.82
MIBR
1.26
Natus Vincere
2.07
Astralis
1.78
Bet value
Amount of money to be placed
Winning
Odds total ratio
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