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Top1 2020 - An Objective take, in my humble opinion
Sadokist | 
New Zealand SWARN151 
Looking objectively (in my humble opinion), Zywoo has a slight edge over s1mple, at THIS juncture. Since the rating (Rating 2.0 already includes everything like impact, KAST, ADR, KDR, multi-kills, clutches, entries, and 12 more factors) is exactly the same, let's talk about achievements: s1mple was in 5 finals, and won 2 (ICE Challenge 2020 - grand finalist, IEM Katowice 2020 -winner, ESL Pro League season 12 - finalist, IEM Beijing - finalist, Clutch Island - winner). If we want to count Blast Spring 2020 regular season and Blast Fall 2020 regular season, then 7 finals total and won/jointly won 3. But I am not counting those 2. In addition to this, he and his team are top3/top4 at Dreamhack Masters Spring 2020, top3/top4 at Blast Spring Finals 2020, top3/top4 at ESL Pro League season 11. And finally of course, the only actual official LAN MVP of 2020 is with s1mple, for the most important tournament. Zywoo has been in 5 finals and won 1. Just like above, I am not counting Blast Fall 2020 Regular season, or the blast spring showdown 2020 where ENCE was jointly first. Only absolute winners are counted, just like for s1mple. If we counted these, then again 7 finals for Zywoo/Vitality and won/jointly won 3 tournaments. But, we don't count those. In addition, Vitality actually had a slow start to 2020, and picked up pace after May/June. There are no other top3/top4 finishes for Vitality, the way there are for Navi, simply because Vitality has been to almost every single grand final since then :D. And the ones where they didn't make it to grand finals, they were out long before top3/top4 (example: Knocked out in groups of EPL-12). Thus, rating wise, both are exactly the same. In terms of number of tournaments - absolute victories/joint victories, they are exactly the same (7-3 for both). Therefore, the difference between these 2 arises, because of a slightly more high-rated performance at more tournaments in 2020 by Zywoo, even if Vitality lost. That alone puts him at a slight edge over s1mple, at this point. Hence, in their remaining 2 tournaments (BLAST Fall Finals 2020 and IEM Global Challenge 2020), if Zywoo wins one, he is at a significant advantage over s1mple for the Top1 spot. If Zywoo wins both, his top1 is undisputed and guaranteed. If s1mple wins both, he is at a significant advantage over Zywoo for the top1 spot. If s1mple wins one and closely loses the other, and Zywoo wins it, then they are literally equal. If both fail and don't do shit, Zywoo is already has an edge over s1mple (just like right now), and in that case Zywoo would take top1. PS: I have tremendous respect both the "players". I hope that this leads to a civil discussion and not a keyboard war.
2020-11-23 11:49
Topics are hidden when running Sport mode.
TL; DR: Read the last paragraph.
2020-11-23 11:50
#2
 | 
Czech Republic pureG0D
FURIA TOP 1 just kidding How the hell can they think about replacing HEN1 ?? I mean.. Junior is great awper and young talent, but would you risk going international just to have slightly better awper than HEN1 ?? Communication will be a big issue for them btw. top 1 xantares or zywoo
2020-11-23 11:50
1 reply
thread is about simple and zywoo and you write bullshit about furia, cmon, write it on the other thread !!!! :D
2020-11-26 21:35
Just saying: Rating 2.0 takes all of this into consideration: Impact, KDR, KPR, ADR, multi-kill percentage, damage difference, 1vX clutches, opening kills, KAST, and about 7-8 other factors. They mash it up and arrive at 1 rating, which describes all of that in one number. That is rating 2.0. The one thing that Rating 2.0 does not count, is the Tier-level of the opponents/tournaments. The only thing that matters therefore is, where did that player get that rating. Depending on that, a weighted score is calculated and we have the winners. In case of a tie, MVPs+EVPs are used. There are also other criteria, but usually the winners are kinda clear.
2020-11-23 11:59
Objective opinion
2020-11-23 12:02
3 replies
I meant, it is objective in my opinion. I am not a computer, right? What I say as "objective" is still my opinion, without my inner biases and subjectivity into the content. Hope that makes sense :)
2020-11-23 12:05
2 replies
These two words are contradicting themselves.
2020-11-26 21:20
1 reply
Yeah, I do get the point. I was just trying to be modest :D I tried to be as objective as I could, in this post, basically.
2020-11-26 21:28
I agree and it’s also hard to measure certain things - like mental resilience, their influence on the team and other subjective issues that influence themselves and their team. being 2 - 0 down and still keeping your head in the game and trying your best is not an easy feat - it would be easier to roll over and give up - is what makes zywoo a better overall player for me even if it’s obvious that simple is more mechanically sound and the stronger individual player NaVi had great teamwork until they started crumbling mentally - people want to blame the coach’s etc but the loss is really the players fault - going back and watching how NaVi played as a unit on dust2 and nuke and how different it was by inferno. They crumbled. That’s simples biggest weakness IMO. He lacks mental fortitude.
2020-11-23 12:03
3 replies
Agreed :(
2020-11-23 12:06
Idk imo NaVi didnt choke this time . Vitaity have much better map pool. It was just luck for NaVi nuke and d2 were first 2 maps. I think they could win on mirage as well map wise speaking but I think Vitality have better map pool and because of that they won. Other thing is s1mple played whole game and wanted to win you could see that on every map but Vitality were just better. And last thing I dont think HLTV gives higher place to player with better mentality :D
2020-11-26 21:46
1 reply
if they picked mirage 3rd map i think they would've got it, their mental state must've been below 0 after those 2 maplosses in a row after leading 2-0 :[
2020-11-28 18:10
Nt NiKo will be top1
2020-11-23 12:06
#9
RpK | 
France pol44r
Everything was said here.except: If you count events having atleast half of the teams in top 15 or 10 ,vitality played 5 and Na'vi 3 finals
2020-11-24 23:20
"There are no other top3/top4 finishes for Vitality" IEM New york 2020 ?
2020-11-26 21:18
3 replies
Yeah, my bad. I meant to say top3/top4 finishes at S-Tier tournaments. I didn't count IEM NY for both the teams actually (both were top3/top4 in respective regions). But yeah, they were top3/top4 at IEM NY Europe, which is a much more credible achievement than CIS, definitely:)
2020-11-26 21:39
2 replies
You count ICE challenge and Clutch island for Navi, which are far away from S-tier
2020-11-26 21:37
1 reply
Yeah, you're right. I missed out on IEM NY EU. Thanks :)
2020-11-26 21:40
#18
ropz | 
France Naiizo
#9 (didnt check but probably true) + the fact that zywoo plays more rifle than s1mple, entries more and still has same rating 2.0 and some stats better.
2020-11-26 21:51
1 reply
1) It's true that Clutch island was CIS RMR, and ICE Challenge didn't have many Top10 teams, and hence only 3 actual Tier1 finals for s1mple. However, HLTV Top20 only counts "big events", and hence his performance in low-tier tournaments probably won't matter anyway, regardless of good or bad. s1mple's rating against the low-tier CIS teams has been worse, than against Tier1 EU teams, because of this exact reason that those tournaments don't matter for top20 rankings. Example: His entire 2020 rating dropped from 1.30 to 1.28 in IEM New York CIS 2020. If we consider only Tier1 LANs (2020) and Top-Tier EU Tournaments (2020), this is the list (check left for events I filtered): hltv.org/stats/players?startDate=2020-01.. 2) Opening kills performance is already counted in Rating 2.0. Since you brought it up separately, let's talk about Opening (entry) kills: hltv.org/stats/players/openingkills?star.. Yes, Zywoo entries more (on T-side especially), *because* he uses the rifle more than s1mple. This is because Vitality plays Inferno and D2 a lot, where Nivera/shox pick up the AWP and Zywoo often goes with rifle. S1mple uses the AWP more than Zywoo. On CT side, s1mple is the CT rotator, and keeps moving from A to B and back, depending on enemy info, and is usually the one to take more 1st contact and get the kills. That is why his CT-side opening kills rating is high. Being a primary AWPer, him taking 1st contact on CT, against aggressive T's, is advantageous tactically. However, an AWPer doesn't entry on the T-side usually (unless the spawn is favourable or it's a special strat), since he just has 1 chance to adjust aim and hit a shot, and if he doesn't hit, he's dead and also loses 6500-7000 dollars of total investment. Riflers have the opportunity to adjust aim, get control and spray down, AWPers have to adjust and hit the 1st shot, or they're dead. Even if you kill an enemy, you'd be immediately traded and again lose a lot of investment. That's why AWPers are used for trades/ killing long-distance from behind, because the enemy is focused on riflers at the front (something that retards call baiting). Most, if not all T-side permanent entry fraggers are riflers. AWPers entry, when the spawn is favourable (like long-spawn on D2), or if they have a rifle, or if it's a special strat. Zywoo entries on T-side, using AK (which he uses more than s1mple, recently). s1mple uses the AWP more, and hence less entries on T-side.
2020-11-27 06:06
s1mple is way ahead of Zywoo because he has been godlike for several years longer while having worse team mates over all.. If Zywoo keeps his form and S1mple drops off for like whole of next year. Then we can have this discussion. /thread
2020-11-26 21:53
1 reply
its this years best player though.
2020-11-29 14:42
hltv.org/stats?startDate=2020-01-01&endD.. following your logic, s1mple is top1
2020-11-29 14:33
objectively =/= in my humble opinion, stopped reading after that tbh
2020-11-29 14:35
1 reply
+1 it's obviously device or Nico
2020-11-29 14:43
winning a LAN-tournament means more than an online tournament and S1mple absolutely dominated that
2020-11-29 14:42
I think s1mple has a small advantage because he played much better on LAN and big events.There were very few of them but they became more important because of it. "because of a slightly more high-rated performance at more tournaments in 2020 by Zywoo" Also this is just not true at all,s1mple has 14 more maps against top5 and 8 more against top10 so you are completely wrong
2020-11-29 14:58
FURIA
1.55
Cloud9
2.55
Sangal
1.86
Young Ninjas
1.94
ALTERNATE aTTaX
2.09
PACT
1.69
Bet value
Amount of money to be placed
Winning
Odds total ratio
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