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If electronic got so high it means LAN matter more than online, then s1mple>zywoo, then s1mple #1
CONGRATZ!
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I initially thought s1mple would get it, but when they announced the MVPs I thought OK, ZywOo's got it.
But then someone made a good post here showing how s1mple was very close to some of the MVPs that ZywOo got and he has the big win & MVP from Kato so now Im thinking s1mple again. He will win it.
Still I think ZywOo is the better player out of the two.
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2018 was clear s1mple 2019 was clear zywoo. 2020 they are basically neck in neck. s1mple being incredible on LAN but dipping a bit online with zywoo the opposite. I think 21-23 (if s1mple continues to be good) will be the years to see both at their "converging" peaks. I do hope s1mple doesnt lose motivation or get fucked over like olof with injures and shit teams tho.
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If navi didn't choke at navi vs vita final , then it would be confirmed s1mple
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But navi chokes epl12 and iem biejing, both are 2 of the 8 elite events of 2020,while other 4 of vitality were not tht important, navi choked 2-0 lead both times, otherwise mabi would be no1 team and s1mple would be no1 too
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I didnt say he was mechanically better, although that is debatable. I said he is a better player, meaning overall. ZywOo is more versatile, he is a far better team player and I think he is more valuable than s1mple for team's success.
ZywOo has carried alone a shit ton as well, the difference maybe being - as you pointed out, that when ZywOo is full carrymode Vitality wins and NaVi can still lose when s1mple plays out of his mind because he is more selfish player and doesnt have as much impact in the game. Still I think they are both phenomenal and by far the best two players to ever play CS. Thats all debatable obviously but this is my opinion.
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I respect everybody's opinion bro.
But imo s1mple is better with guns than zhywoo, so i do not agree with versatility thing.
They are both on same level more or less, but a match involves more things than team play and skill only.
Another fact is that vitality is way more solid as a compact team than na'vi.I'd say na'vi is all about skill and individual performance afterall, guess you follow the pro matches and unless you are in nova-mg rank ( no offence intended ) you would notice na'vi has no strategy whatsoever, storming a bomb site in the last 20 seconds it's 50-50 and not a strategy to work around it.
If they (s1mple or elec) does not take an opening than it's a big problem for the round.
Vitality has exp players overall and they don't choke that much, that's the reason they went strong the online era.
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I understand why someone would think s1mple is the better of the two, its very close anyways so I think it really boils down to a matter of opinion.
Im 3k ELO Faceit in EU and have competed in semi-pro lvl before, I know that NaVi style is more about individual skill and capitalizing on enemy mistakes. However its not true that they dont have tactics or that they do just individual plays.
Its true that this year Vitality has improved a lot on their teamplay and cohesion, however only last year we saw how ZywOo almost single handrdly carried the team to numerous titles and he didnt have a top5 player beside him like s1mple has Elec. Also according to the stats, ZywOo is doing more entry work than s1mple as well as clutching. One difference is that nowadays ZywOo also has some roles which are not traditional star player roles and which s1mple doesnt do, e.g. ZywOo is B anchor on Inferno and plays rifle, just because its a super hard role and ZywOo is so good he can have huge impact in that role (as proven by Vita's long win streak on inf since Nivera addition).
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Of course they are not clueless but compared to the big dogs na'vi are "little boys" in term of strategy, once an opening duel is won, it seems they are good, ironically, but other than that nothing brilliant.
Isn't inferno the only map zhywoo plays with guns more than awp?
In term of star players i'd say both dev1ce and s1mple have a better gun game or atleast use guns more often than awp.
Shox,nivera, misuta (lately) trio is way way better than boombl4,flamie,perfecto in terms of team play. Shox's playstyle is very unortodhox and he creates a lot of space for the team so it's easier even for zhywoo with stats. On the other side, electronic has godlike aim but he respects his role too much without assuming risks, like shox i.e pushing nuke ramp,appartments etc.
I will not create a debate because may sound biased,fanboys etc.
As a csgo fan (no player in particular) i follow many streams, didn't catch zhywoo playing fpl or smh but i can name you 3 players more skilled individually than zhywoo, twistz,s1mple and niko (yet to see zhywoo playing with the boys, other than his teammates)
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+1
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+1
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Haha you rekt him bro
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0/8
0/8
yeah... the comment threads are filled with with people going how, why... umm its given in the effing article just read it
You're saying this as a Na'Vi fan ? caring about rating ^^
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True
ZywOo has 3 "elite" MVPs, 1 big MVP (but not elite), and 2 RMR MVPs. He should have about 3 more EVPs (at max, I have checked myself). s1mple has 2 "elite" MVPs, and 7 EVPs (once again, you can check). Thus, 8-9 (MVPs+EVPs) for both. The difference is, Katowice is like twice of a regular one, while RMR ones are lesser than a regular one.
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Yes, definitely. I never disagreed with that.
My point was, it won't be actually counted as equal 6 vs 2, since all have different weights. CS_summit6 and DH Open Fall are actually silver MVPs, as can be seen in the released Top20 articles, and HLTV confirmed that RMRs are being depreciated. Blast Spring Finals is not "elite", officially. At the same time, HLTV said that Katowice was the closest to a Major, and it's like a major MVP. Overall, it is 3 elite MVPs, 2 EVPs vs 2 elite MVPs, 5 EVPs. And yes, ZywOo would have the lead of MVPs, numerically, obviously. How much would it actually affect rankings, remains to be seen.
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Even I think it favours ZywOo :D
That's not what that message was about. It seems people are blowing 6v2 out of proportion, while that's really not the case, and not even the complete picture. That was the point of the message. And since you said "slightly", it seems you understand :D
Have a nice day :)
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Better play-off ratings?? ZywOo has rekt him in playoff ratings.
events.y0fl0w.de
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There's no proof of that. It's just one guy calculating it, and many have done it, getting different results. We have no means to trust one and ignore the other.
Check the image in this message: hltv.org/forums/threads/2399599/top5-10-..
We had 3 LAN events in 2020 and s1mple played good at all of them, soo s1mple pretty much #1 confirmed
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3 LAN , whit only 1 stacked event, which is Katowice. True that was a very stacked even, mb the most stacked of the year, but the weight hltv gives to it is way too much. Even majors didnt have this weight to determine the top 20 the previous years. I have huge doubt that Katowice and that little Ice challenge event made electronic top 5 , even mb top 4, when overall he is behind ropz and blameF for sure.
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Blast was also stacked. #1 contenders s1mple and zywoo played in same group
I will contrast BlameF and electronic for you, since Ropz is 7th.
blameF did have better overall stats, but he has played literally *half* of what Electronic has played at the highest level: hltv.org/stats/players?startDate=2020-01..
Electronic also has a lot many more playoffs maps than BlameF (who had only 20 playoffs matches, with the lowest playoffs rating in Top7 players), all of them at the biggest events of 2020, both LAN and Online (Remember that Navi has been in every single Tier1 playoffs in 2020, except ESL One Cologne). Thus, electronic is better at the big/elite events, as well as in the big events' playoffs.
Electronic has an MVP (LAN), and at least 7-8 EVPs, all of them from quite big EU events, about 5-6 of them from "Elite" events. This is quite more than BlameF.
Electronic also has a much better rating against Top5 and Top10 teams than BlameF.
Is this enough to say that it was perhaps 55-45 in favour of electronic?
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On electronic vs BlameF , i agree it was perhaps not 55 - 45, but 50-50 between them, because we have also to take in consideration that electronic was on a slight slump the last 3-4 months of the year, which conpensates the gap of the amounts of maps between those players. Imo ropz was robbed of his 5th place, because this argument dosnt match on him, and he has been consistent the whole year, even if mouz didnt really shine this year. Dont forget it's an individual top and not team achievements, deep runs can have a weight on the top, indeed, but if it was the main factor, device should have been top 1 of 2018 and 2019.
Tldr : 7-6 : BlameF/ electronic , 5/ Ropz
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What I don't like is that HLTV makes concessions, exceptions for some players and not for others. They're making cases and excuses in favor of a certain player like s1mple in 2019 but not others like dev1ce in 2019 etc. They're not applying the same logic to all players and I think it's unfortunate.
Though To me, seeing Electronic higher than BlameF is way less shocking than seeing s1mple above dev1ce in last year's ranking.
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You clearly just hate navi
Based off the rankings we have, what's your top 5?
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At the moment:
1) ZywOo (52%)
2) s1mple (48%)
3) device (100%)
4) Niko (70%)
5) Electronic (30%)
s1mple and ZywOo are really really close. device is actually very much ahead of Niko, in terms of what matters most to HLTV rankings. Electronic and Niko are closer, but Niko should still take the lead.
Well we've already talked about it on another thread but though there are a lot of arguments in Electronic's favor, last year dev1ce was in a similar situation than Electronic but yet finished #3, you've agreed on this but here the story tells us that Electronic is above blameF etc. There seems to be a lack of consistency on choosing the right players and for which reasons (though admittedly Electronic has more maps like dev1ce last year, twice as more, and better rating against top 5/top 10). Well I won't complain too much either way, check my flair :D.
To me it makes more sense to have Electronic above BlameF than s1mple above dev1ce in 2019 to be completely honest.
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Yeah well, there are many stats where s1mple was nearly 0.15 or so ahead of device in 2019. The only reason that irks some people, is big events playoffs, and some big events performance. Note that, that's not the primary factor for rankings (important events' ratings is still 1st). The difference was also quite evident against TopX teams. Actually, there are many minor stats lines, where s1mple was quite ahead of device. Whether that was enough to overcome big event's playoffs and stuff, is debatable, and there were quite good arguments' threads last year. I am just trynna be brief :D
Electronic well, he leads in most of the things that matter, this year. The only thing is 1.19 in 66 maps vs 1.15 in 124 maps (such a difference for big events didn't exist between s1mple and device). And that should go to electronic, imo. Also, Electronic also would have 2.5x-3x more play-offs than blameF.
Also, Elec is very much ahead of blameF in top5 and top10 (check s1mple vs device in top5, top10, and others, last year)
MVPs and EVPs, well, are yet another point of contention. Electronic has better stats in all important cases (elite events, big events, playoffs, Top5, Top10) as well as more important achivements (LAN MVPs), and many more elite EVPs. Last year, there were multiple factors in s1mple's favour, and some in device's favour. This one was kinda clear to me.
Bro, S1mple was a fucking beast all year, while Zinedine was sleeping in the first half of the year. Also in my opinion it's fair Katowice be more value than others tournaments of the year because it was LAN, there's no comparison in LAN x ONLINE whatever prize pool.. LAN it's where all of them go to proof they are the best, at same atmosphere, same pressure, same PC and without ping and cheaters (not only software, look at those coach's, that's never gonna happen on LAN) and on.. So despite i love Zyw0o as a player and like his cute personality too, i can't argue against fact's and S1mple was the best player in the world in 2020.
It dsnt mean S1mple > Zyw0o just mean that S1mple was better this season, if it was actually possible both should recive #1 medal because they are magical
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u are 100% right man, finally a zywoo fans who is watching at this top objective
s1mple was playing good in the first 3 months, in the middle of the year and in the last 3 months so basically all year while zywoo was nowhere in the first 3 months of the year, in the middle was decent and in the last 3 months it was a beast.
yea if it was after me for the last 3 months i will give it to zywoo it was more better then s1mple but this is a top of all year and s1mple was everywhere in this year at the highest lvl.
1is group stage qualifier. Other t2 event which has less importance than many online events this year. Only legit claim for s1mple is kato mvp and epl mvp. Which zywoo has 3 similar level mvps. But kato is super big event this year,their mvps can be tied.
So the result depends on remaining number of mvp and evps both of them get.
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you're not fooling anyone ^^
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I know but I never saw him provide any argument what so ever, he's hating on ZywOo without any strain of thoughts. If I dislike s1mple's bait and switch playstyle then I at least provide arguments as to why. Like I don't like that s1mple baits on the T side (plays the awp 44% of the time but has very low opening frag attempt % even with the awp) and doesn't entry like Electronic does and stats prove it. I don't like Na'Vi putting every ressources, money included into him at the cost of having lower weaponry and equipment on his teammates, but I have proofs, stats and research, demo viewing on it ( I have a QUIZZ thread on it too which wasn't the original goal but it became obvious after seeing that s1mple never plays the default pistols or lower tier rifles, only prenium guns and equipment, always, every round, he plays CZ, p250, deagle, scout, never any other SMG, only AUG, krieg, ak, m4, awp. This is why Perfecto is one of the best famas player of the year and plays low tier rifles, pistols often; just like boombl4 playing SMGs or shotguns 24/7 (it's his playstyle too but I'm sure he'd prefer an AK). You know, though I'm bias because I don't like the idea, I don't like the playstyle, the chemistry within the team, I can still argue as to why I don't and provide proofs. I prefer Electronic in Na'Vi than s1mple but I can explain why, I can explain how Electronic entries a lot, lurks and is one of the most impactful players with ZywOo, how much space he takes without any support from his team often while s1mple is passive/laid back and never takes space or takes risks.
But him ? Nope I've seen dozen of his comments and never saw it once.
s1mple have way better rating agaist top-5 teams, same rating overall, navi was way more stable s1mple didnt pass group stage only in 1 event cologne, while zywoo coudnt pass group stage 5 times blast LAN! katowice LAN 11-12 esl season and last IEM with 500k prize pool
i Would put 7 events blast finals, blast lan katowice lan, cologne 11-12 esl and IEM 500k as 7 best events in 2020, other have or low prize pool or no navi in it EU quals.
So zywoo didnt managed to pass group stage in 5 out 7 best events in a year does he really deserve top-1 group stage stats farmer?>?>!>#!@
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Vitality were on rebuilt the 4-5st months of 2020, that is the main cause why vitality were barely a top 10 teams at this periods. Adding that ZyWoo is a better team mate than s1mple ( s1mple words), this phase may had a huge impact on his performances, because the rebuilt made the team very unstable. From June to Decembre, when the team was well rebuilt, and began to dominate the top cs scene, Zywoo started to shine again, even whit the team baiting way more less than in 2019. If we look at the 1st half of 2020, I agree that s1mple is clearly above ZyWoo. But From June to Decembre, Zywoo is ahead and even managed to catch the gap of stats between s1mple and him, that means that he played way better than s1mple when him, was indeed, very constant trought the whole year. If we have a regular top 20, it could go either way, top 1 could go to s1mple for his amazing consistancy trought the year, or to Zywoo for the huge peak he had on the 2nd half of the year. But because, the of the weight Lans have, especially Katowice which is the only stacked out of the 3 Lans, s1mple may take it because of this reason, and not thanks to his amazing consistancy.
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what the fuck, so if navi changing roster every day and s1mple didnt pass group stage in a single event for 11 month and 20 days and only in 1 lan he perform well and overall stats that was made by group stage stats( where you play agaist way more worse teams) he deserve top-1?????? excuses ?>??!@#
p.s. also my mistake there was blast EU spring where zywoo reached finals, so 5 out 8 events he farm stats in group there is no excuses rebuilding team or whatever you play most of big even only in group so your stats made by playing agaist worst team (you can see it in his stats agaist top-5 team, also check s1mple vs astralis or zywoo vs astralis, s1mple is way better)
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Being better vs 1 team is irrelevant. Check Zywoo vs Fnatic vs S1mple vs fnatic. Or better yet check S1mple vs Vitality/Zywoo vs Navi.
At the end of the day no way 1 katowice MVP makes up for 4 smaller tournament MVPs. 6 MVPs to two, better ADR, KAST, impact and clutches. Zywoo has it easier than last year tbh
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Yhea but HLTV does take into account subcomponents of rating, so I guess they're aware of this.
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Uh yeah? Same reason Zywoo won last year
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ZywOo won by miles because he has even beaten s1mple's stats record in playoffs rating. ZywOo had a 1.34 rating 2.0 in playoffs which meant he had 0.04 higher stats than against lower opposition. The closer you would get to the final, the higher his stats were. (Skilled player but that is not normally... this is ver y very I N S A N E). s1mple had twice less maps and 1.24 rating in playoffs in 2019, there was no debate, it was between him and Device but ZywOo was the favorite by 99%).
Now s1mple has worse stats on some component but has higher rating since his KD is inflated ( he had 1.4 KD in 2019 with 1.24 rating in playoffs while ZywOo had 1.34 KD and 1.34 rating in playoffs with 20 more maps).
If we consider roles, player playstyle etc, ZywOo Stats (1.29 rating across the board with huge impact 1.38 #1) then his stats are more impressive because of s1mple and Na'Vi's playstyle, how much they play around him, drop him weapons every round, play the better positions etc. But HLTV never does that!
6 MVPS > 2 MVPs . It should topple s1mple easely and yet there's so much importance given to Katowice, it seems way more impactful than any major we've seen ( and yet Katowice's opposition wasn't grand as people say it, we had other really stacked events but they were Online that's why they're undervalued).
Even dev1ce's major MVP in last year's ranking was shown as something trivial. No clue why they're putting so much because it was the only LAN of the year while they said themselves they wouldn't put that much more impact than other events since CS was forced to be played Online. But it seems they went back on their words.
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Most of the decisions your referring to have way more to do with the number of maps played vs top teams and playoff matches than it does with Katowice specifically.
It just so happens that the teams that did well at katowice were also teams that had consistent success throughout the year. Racking up maps vs elite teams in important matches.
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More so from their decisions of choosing which event is "elite" and which isn't then. Because there's not a single "elite" event I believe where Na'Vi didn't play, the reason why is unknown because other really stacked EU tournaments had the same or similar opposition. Bear in mind that Na'Vi wasn't in the top 5 anymore when these stacked EU tourneys were held hence it wouldn't make sense to not call them "elite" since Na'Vi at that time (though the ranking was funky in 2020) wasn't enough to dismiss it. Astralis and Vitality who were often both present on the other hand were among the top 5 period quite often towards the end of the year. As to why these events were depreciated remains unknown ^^. If we're talking about individual performances, failing to perform or be good at RMR with lower opposition should be taken into account ( s1mple with CIS RMR, Breeze with NA tourneys etc). We said ZywOo had a slump in the first part of the year. Maybe but a 1.24 rating at Katowice with a decent amount of maps in a dysfunctional team, a roaster with Alex nearing its end isn't a slump at all compared to s1mple unimpactful CIS RMR tournaments where he couldn't even pretend to MVPs even if they were MVP worthy. To me, it seems like stars alining in Na'Vi's favor (#2 team of 2020 according to HLTV which even GodB and Threat, old players and very good coachs of BIG and NIP respectively didn't agree with), Electronic's favor, likely top 5 with lower stats for the most part than both BlameF and Ropz overall and s1mple's favor contending for the top spot with ZywOo. Normally 6 MVPs against stacked EU events (3 of them elite tier events) shouldn't even be a question but HLTV's decisions are questionable, they didn't explain yet, to my knowledge ( maybe I should ask for answers or talk about it with SWARN151, as to how and why some tournaments weren't considered despite similar opposition).
All I'm saying is that, it almost seems like a setup considering how it aligns. It only aligns that perfectly for Na'Vi. Not for Astralis nor for Vitality. Luck works in mysterious ways.
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Yeah its an irrelevant stat, if you read my comment thoroughly you'd understand that comparing players in specific matchups means nothing. The ranking is for the whole year not who did better vs a single team. But if anything how they played vs each other is more important than how they played vs Astralis when comparing the two
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MVP = useless shit
2018 year device IEM even event win rating 1.15 = MVP
2018 year cologne electornic event win rating 1.31 = EVP (cuz of s1mple 1.37 rating)
Does it make device perfomance way better then elec if you compere these 2 events, or s1mple godlike perfomance making electronic playing worse????? MVP doesnt mean shit, yea it's cool to a guy that he was named mvp in some events but it make 0 impact on a perfomance, it doesnt chage your perfomance and shouldnt even make any impact on top-20 placements cuz it's really doesnt change perfomance
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Thats why you compare both rating AND MVPs.
Obviously if you're just comparing those two tournaments Electronics cologne was better than Devices IEM but thats not how the rankings work.
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okay if elec got mvp (cuz s1mple performe a bit worse and edward step up) with his 1.31 rating and "only evp" with same perfomance 1.31 rating it would mean that electronic with MVP played WAY WAY WAY better even tho he had same perfomance???? how is that even a thing, i just make 2 examples where you cant get mvp with 1.31 rating and also can get with 1.15, it means that MVP is kinda random and doesnt show your real skill and perfomance, also stats in winning team value more so mvp is way ez to get in winning team, and how that make any difference in perfomance, so if you lost finals with rating 1.3 and guy win it with rating 1.25, that 1.25 guy would take mvp even tho 1,3 guy had more impact but his team doesnt support him, MVP = useless thing that doesnt say anythink
You're saying this because s1mple has had 3 MVPs in the last two years while ZywOo got 11 of them^^ If s1mple gained more than the others, you would have used this argument in your favor hence it's a flawed argument^^. If you can't acknowledge that having more MVPs (which are of similar quality "elite tier" events from ZywOo is still higher than the 2 s1mple has) is an important factor to deciding on how to rank players then there's not even a need for a discussion.
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just explain me, how mvp make any difference in perfomance? so if in cologne s1mple played a bit worse and all his lost frags took edward and elec perform the same and same 1.31 rating but he got mvp it would mean that electronic played better? even tho he had same perfomance??!@?#!@# how that make any logic
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I'm sorry I don't understand your comment. MVPs are individual awards, trying to undermine them is worse than saying "it's an individual ranking NOT TeAm AcHiEvEmEnTs" nonsense when both are obviously dependent of each other.
ZywOo got the MVP over s1mple while both were finalists, not just because he won but because he had better stats in the whole tournament. How is that not relevant that he has 3 times the amount of MVPs s1mple has ?
Cry more
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Thats all you got loser? You're always so weak
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This is not where you write your diary.
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Didn't read. Thanks for the tears. Bye loser.
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Because 2019 was on LAN the whole year and Na'Vi was ranked #8 team of the year^^
Also, Na'Vi always does well at the beginning of the year and die out afterwards. Just like Na'Vi won Starseries in early 2019 and then disappeared. To put it in perspective, they haven't won anything relevant since Katowice (we play clutch island and gamers without borders are tier 2 and tier 3 respectively).
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"If"
With IFs you can make anything true according to your will and words since It's POTENTIAL.
It didn't happen, everybody played Online and yet Astralis despite changing roasters and players is still considered #1 and Vitality still made top 2-3 of the year just like last year season on LAN.
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ALEX left and they rebuilt their team (he couldn't put work in anymore and wanted to leave for a while), so how is that relevant ? That roaster was nearing his end and the change to Online happened with the change of putting apEX into the IGL role.
This is an idiotic take on that matter, irrational assumptions.
It's the same as saying if ZywOo didn't exist then s1mple would be the best player. That's the same level of assumption you're making and you don't realize it.
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"so how is that relevant" lol, and u said about 2019 with alex, ok
btw alex>>misuta
navi had new player too but they won second tournament in 2020, so why vitality couldnt?(cuz they r bad at lans)
s1mple was best in 2019 and best in 2020(zywoo is avg player and he has so good stats cuz his teammates have rating 1.00, they cant kill so u can steal their kills)
s0mple deserves top1 bro it is so close but zywho onliner
I can tell u flag+flair checks out xaxaxaxaxaaxax))
zy...wh0?🤔🤦♂️
flag flair name
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RMR CIS tournaments need to have a word with you. s1mple wasn't playing well, he had inflated stats in them but it wasn't the s1mple you've seen in 2018 or at Katowice in 2020.
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you can't just call the most important tournament of the yeat not important.
+1.
Even 75% of the pros say zywoo ahead of s1mple. So the case is closed that zywoo is the better player. Hltv ranking is ass so its ok
Replace 'people' with 'Vitality fans' and you got a fixed response. PEOPLE know zywhoo is number 2 forever.
true
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Yes but it was the same for Dev1ce in 2019 and yet he finished #3 so HLTV's logic may be flawed on this one.
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Don't get me wrong. I could have seen BlameF ranked #5 but Electronic being above BlameF is way less shocking to me than seeing s1mple above dev1ce in last year's ranking. But in terms of stats and maps played in playoffs and close enough rating (0.05 or under rating difference) the situation looks close than what it was^^. Since s1mple had 1.24 in playoffs but only 28 maps against dev1ce 1.19 and 52 maps and as Na'Vi had no 2nd places in 2019 then it means they only did one game in playoffs and went out so it would mean often lesser opposition (even less maps played against top 5 or even top 3). But still s1mple got it with thrice times less MVPs.
Electronic's case is stronger than s1mple's case last year to dethroned his direct competitor.
LOL. Everyone know 1st is shoxiejesuss. S0mple out of list.
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hfhfhf
so #0 xantares and #-1 NAF?
gotcha m8
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This was already confirmed when Dupreeh got 9 over Syrson.
They've given insane leverage to Kato. s1mple IS probably #1. And if he isn't then this list actually doesn't make sense.
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Still makes sense if he isn't. Dupreeh went deeper in way more tournaments and has more maps vs top teams. Zywoo has 6 MVPs, S1mple has two. The gap wasn't this big in the case of the lesser ranked players.
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#74
s1mple played insane the entire year both on LAN and online :)
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Then why does he have so many less MVPs despite being on a team that ranked higher for 2020 according to HLTV?
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ZywOo had 13 chances to get mvp/evp
s1mple had only 10 chances to get mvp/evp
s1mple have 2 awards from LAN and s1mple is the #1 player in Elite events by far with more maps :)
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Thats cause there were like 2 elite events during a period where Vita was rebuilding.
Not Zywoos fault S1mple didn't attend as many tournaments. Plenty of players who had just as many chances as Zywoo and also failed and plenty of tournaments where they both attended and Zywoo was better
18 replies
Not s1mple's fault that Vita were rebuilding.
Not s1mple's fault that Vita did nothing on LAN.
Not s1mple's fault that he got region locked and was forced to play against CIS cheating teams and didn't even get any MVP/EVP awards.
Didn't attend many events? DH Winter EU was the only event which wasn't region locked that NaVi didn't attend.
17 replies
But it is his fault that despite all of Vitas rebuilding Zywoo ended with better ratings vs top 5 and top 10, more MVPs and, more #1s on the leaderboard.
16 replies
ZywOo better rating vs top 5 and top 10? HAHHAHAHAHAHHA
You still don't even know the difference b/w Featured Ratings and Ranking filter
15 replies
You still don't know that featured ratings as been flawed for years and only counts when both teams are top 5/10
14 replies
LMAO
Its the other way around.
13 replies
Mmm nope? One is vs top 5 teams one is when both are top 5 its literally says it for you.
12 replies
11 replies
Can you actually not read?
10 replies
"Featured Ratings" talk about the player's performance *AGAINST* Top5/Top10, etc opponent teams.
Try harder
9 replies
Imagine linking something that proves you wrong and then doubling down on it like it's actual proof. Bye baiter.
8 replies
3 replies
And you clearly dont know that 6>2. Zywoo wins this race every time
2 replies
1 reply
Stay cringe
All right then, verify yourself, as per this year:
HEN1: hltv.org/forums/threads/2399599/top5-10-..
ROPZ: hltv.org/forums/threads/2399599/top5-10-..
I am not fooling around. Go and check it yourself. Somebody pointed out the inconsistency in HLTV filter, and I accept that. However, the point of that thread was to prove that HLTV uses Featured ratings in evaluation of HLTV Top20, since that provides the ratings *against* topX.
Have a nice day :)
Mate you've proven yourself wrong if anything.
2 replies
Delusional name and delusional take
1 reply
I believe s1mple was really close to mvps online, + he got the Kato. If thjs theory is correct, he will porobably get top 1
12 replies
How objective of you..
11 replies
Wdym, it's fairly objective.
10 replies
I dont even know what "really close to MVPs" means
9 replies
EVPs
seemed simple enough to me
4 replies
Thats a very weak argument. "He almsot did as well so he should get placed higher"
3 replies
Never said it was a good one my friend
But there is no point arguing in the first place bcz it's not gonna change the results whatsoever. Also, considering the fact that it comes in (~) 4 days, you guys are prob just gonna hate each other even more if anything 🤷
2 replies
Its fun to discuss :) Let me do me. Worry about yourself.
1 reply
Yea well all I do is recommend stuff anyways, if you enjoy this then go ahead xD. It's not like I have any authority.
EVPs?
That's the whole point of EVPs. Dupreeh has 0 mvp but 6 evps :D
3 replies
2 replies
Getting 9/10 in 5 subjects >>>> Getting 10 in two and 5 in three
1 reply
But i dont see how that applies. What subjects does zywoo have a 5 in?
And I would argue that's fair. It took a LONG time for a lot of people to adjust to online play. the rankings were always going to be skewed. I would argue you can look at the latter 3 months of the year when discussing rankings as some things started to return to normalcy, which may give Zywoo an edge, but you have to think it's s1mple if they're giving that much bias.
2 replies
Electronic over Ropz and Blame should be the final nail in the coffin.
Electronic, Niko, Device, Zywoo, s1mple. This is the order most likely.
1 reply
Electronic was always gonna be over Ropz and blameF due to # of matches in Big event playoffs and vs elite teams. Doesnt apply to s1mple vs Zywoo cause they both had a lot of deep runs
Maybe elec, isnt in top20. Who knows
1 reply
nah on twitter they said the some people that were outside of #20 and there wasn't electronic
s1mple the only real Top 1
0/8 keep dreaming
5 replies
No... He is right..
4 replies
3 furia players got in top 20 and they didn't even participate in Katowice. So he is wrong.
3 replies
2 replies
Zywoo 1
No need to debate
Stop trolling pls
11 replies
GOAT s1mple 1
No need to debate
Stop trolling pls
10 replies
I'll be there when you're crying, just like last year
9 replies
Never lol
8 replies
You always cry. Stay teary
7 replies
it's you
6 replies
Yawn, gigacringe weak comeback as always.
Wait a bit, the frenchies will be extra mald in 4 days 👀
4 replies
You're actually supporting him? Don't give him and his alts attention
3 replies
Why should I hate him? And besides, we are standing on the same side of the barricade. Seems like you're an intelligent man but your reflections on the s1mple fanboys issue are getting out of hand. Your "I love s1mple but the more time passed, the more I want to antagonize him" statement is just ridiculous. s1mple himself has nothing to do with formation of his fanbase, it's not like he could select the best of the best. Don't pay too much attention to behaviour of anonymous people on the internet, especially on HLTV filled with trolls and baiters.
2 replies
true but his behaviour on every thread is quite obnoxious.
1 reply
Just take it easy.
Edit: ty russkiy?
+1 s1mple will win that's facts
4 replies
old news we knew it since 2020-01-01
+1
GOAT S1MPLE TOP 1 2020
1 reply
+1 no doubts
Ok
well + one advantage for s1mple
top 20 ranking of 2020, powered by GG.BET and Xtrfy
GG.BET
Go to website
“We are sure that our partnership will lead us all to victories. We are looking forward to unbelievable clutches, breathtaking retakes and mind-blowing victories of NAVI. As for us, we will do our best to make sure NAVI fans can make bets on their favorite team and level up gambling culture around the world.”
fatality lose again and zywho with them(
5 replies
Didn't mean anything last year, stop being delusional
4 replies
3 replies
This year its just as obvious when you breakdown the key stats like Impact, ADR, clutches, opening kills and awards.
2 replies
1 reply
Not many deep tournament runs like Zywoo Device S1/Elec. Only 66 maps vs top 10 quality teams. For context Niko has 128 Device 124 Zywoo 118.
In the case of Zywoo vs S1mple they both had many deep runs and placed highly in a lot of tournaments so the deciding factor will be MVPs/stats
S1mple also has the same rating, but better vs top teams and his graph of stability is better than Zywoo.
165 replies
Its not better vs top teams. Zywoo has more impact vs top teams and more MVPs.
164 replies
162 replies
You know that they still breakdown rating and compare the individual metrics? Despite the ratings being quite close the only thing simple leads in are kills and deaths. Basically padded rating. Zywoo achieved his rating with more impactful kills. S1mple achieved his by trading off teammates and saving
161 replies
160 replies
You know there were like 2 LANs and they account for like 1/10 of the year?
159 replies
158 replies
Yes and he was better than S1mple the other 90% of the year.
90% of year without LAN > 10% of year with LAN. To deny that you have to be incredibly delusional.
Pretty sure the ranking is for 2020, not LANS in 2020.
157 replies
> "Yes and he was better than S1mple the other 90% of the year."
wrong statement
156 replies
Really is that why after Katowice he earned 6 MVPs to S1mples 1?
So funny when s1mple fans call me wrong but can't explain why. Seems to be a common trend heavily related to extreme bias for s1mple. No logic just "you're wrong" "s1mple was better" "that's no objective"
But can literally never say why. Why?
155 replies
MVPs =/= he was better
device also had more MVPs, but S1mple took top1 of 2018 + s1mple had better line of stability in his stats than Zywoo. and the rating was ~equal for both in general. so it menas S1mple > zywoo (2020)
65 replies
Its definitely an indicator that he performed better at those specific tournaments which yes some Navi didn't attend but there are plenty that they did and s1mple did not earn MVPs at.
Device had 1 more MVP and noticeably worse stats. S1mple has 4 less MVPs and equivalent stats. The years are not similar
In that case though what metric would you say suggests S1mple was better?
64 replies
it is an indicator that his team won more than NAVI this year, nothing more
for example there was an event (don't remember the name), which Vitality won, but S1mple was much better than Zywoo statistically. but zywoo still earned MVP
63 replies
Ofc you don't remember the name cause it didn't happen. Doing better up until quarters isn't impressive when Zwyoo had to continue performing for more maps to maintain his rating, ofc its statistically likely that the more maps you play the closer you get to the average.
And no most of Zywoos MVPs come from 2nd places.
hltv.org/news/30896/top-10-teams-of-2020
And according to HLTV they think that Navi had better success this year. So your argument about winning more is null. Zywoo simply had more outstanding performances.
62 replies
> "Ofc you don't remember the name cause it didn't happen."
wrong statement. this was an event where Navi lost 2-3 to Vitality
> "Doing better up until quarters isn't impressive"
but doing in grand final is impressive, even if S1mple lost it
> " And no most of Zywoos MVPs come from 2nd places."
wrong statement.
> "And according to HLTV they think that Navi had better success this year. So your argument about winning more is null. Zywoo simply had more outstanding performances."
wrong statement, the line of stability when you compared S1mple and Zywoo proves my point. S1mple was better in 2020
61 replies
hltv.org/stats/leaderboards?event=5524
You mean this tournament where Zywoo has a higher rating, impact rating, clutches, opening kills and also won the tournament? Seems fair and logical to give it to Zywoo to me.
They only give it to 2nd place when you are far and away the best player at the tournament.
How is it wrong? Vitality didn't even win 4 tournaments. The majority of Zywoow MVPs are indeed from 2nd place.
Stop with this wrong statement shit. Just because you don't like that it's true doesn't make it wrong. Its just cringe, you can't accept facts
60 replies
no, I meant this:
hltv.org/matches/2345221/natus-vincere-v..
(check the stats of this Beijing GF match)
59 replies
So 1 match makes up for the entire rest of the tournament? That's a take only a fangirl would have. Maybe if s1mple won but he choked the last 2 maps.
And even so if s1mple had that MVP it would still be 5 to 3. Accounting for the fact that Katowice was a massive tournament ill double its value so say 5 to 4. Zywoo is still superior.
57 replies
> "So 1 match makes up for the entire rest of the tournament?"
> "Doing better up until quarters isn't impressive"
so you prefer double standards, right? you are obviously biased towards Zywoo as we can see here
S1mple was by fact better player in 2020 than Zywoo and i already proved it, goodbye
56 replies
How do those statements contradict each other?
The second statement isn't even relevant anymore as you clarified the tournament you meant, a tournament where they were both in the grand finals. So the QF statement isn't applicable.
Not a single thing you've said points to Zywoo being better. You can keep being delusional but you have incredibly weak arguments
55 replies
use your logic, if you cannot do it "on-the-fly" then re-read our conversation
1. i proved that s1mple was better player statistically in 2020
2. i proved that MVPs were mostly not deserved (and you agreed with me until your usage of double standard). MVPs only prove that a player has better team.
3. i proved that you are biased
i think i did my job there
54 replies
You have no arguments bro, not 1 thing you've said indicates S1mple was better. Lower impact clutches ADR and entries and 4 less MVPs.
Zywoo will take it easily
I countered you argument about the statistics you can check the leaderboards here:
hltv.org/stats/leaderboards?startDate=20..
I never agreed with you, that statement is incredibly biased and you would not be making it if s1mple had the advantage.
You're the biased one trying to discount MVPs to support your argument. And even if your statements were logical Zywoo STILL has th advantage.
You lost bro, just accept it.
27 replies
#143
and ignoring arguments and saying "you have no arguments" is not a good tactic, it won't work with me
4 replies
Fine, you have arguments, just incredibly weak ones
Now stay quiet :)
2 replies
cry is free bro, i rekt you with truth and arguments, and proved
1. that s1mple was better than zywoo in 2020
2. you are biased
have a good day
1 reply
Lmk when you can counter my points in #144. Until then I'll drink this glass of your tears
21 replies
Check the other 90% of the year btw
20 replies
especially first 6 months when Zywoo had 1.12 / 1.13 rating and S1mple had more than 1.20
hltv.org/stats/players/compare/7998/s1mp..
btw
19 replies
Good thing the ranking is for the entire year right?
hltv.org/stats/leaderboards?startDate=20..
But leave it to you to find biased statistics and not look at the entire picture.
18 replies
hltv.org/stats/players/compare/7998/s1mp..
both 1.29 rating, but S1mple has 0.85 impact, while Zywoo only 0.81
17 replies
Bruh that's kills per round and that statisitc sheet counts games they played vs tier 3 teams.
hltv.org/stats/players/11893/zywoo?start..
hltv.org/stats/players/7998/s1mple?start..
The only thing s1mple does better is get more exit kills and save more which boosts his KPR and KD. Zywoo is superior in literally everything else
16 replies
hltv.org/stats/players/compare/7998/s1mp..
scroll down a little bit and check Yellow (s1mple) and Blue (zywoo) line of stability of 2020. and then you will calm down and at last admit that S1mple > zywoo (2020)
15 replies
Why is the line relevant when at the end of the year when you compare the stats Zywoo was better?
14 replies
so you just ignore whole year and compare only at the end?
again your "unbiased" double standards? :)
12 replies
And Zywoo came back in the rest of the year.
11 replies
10 replies
Then maybe he should have earned some MVPs
9 replies
Can you read this ??????
7 replies
And I alrdy proved that was a biased argument
6 replies
5 replies
Then by that logic. There shouldn't even be a 2020 ranking. Why you wasting time arguing something you don't think should be awarded?
4 replies
3 replies
K cool opinion bro
2 replies
Lol I know you can't read this, but good luck fixing this bug hltv.org .
1 reply
wtf happened here
Your English is dogshit bro.
I'm comparing the entire year. That's why I linked stats for all of 2020 not just a graph where I point to the beginning of the year like you.
25 replies
hltv.org/stats/players/compare/7998/s1mp..
scroll down and check the line of stability, Yellow = S1mple, Blue = Zywoo.
S1mple > zywoo
24 replies
hltv.org/stats/players/7998/s1mple?start..
hltv.org/stats/players/11893/zywoo?start..
I don't need to look at a line when I have their total stats for all of 2020 in much greater detail right in front of me. Where Zywoo leads nearly every relevant category
20 replies
so you prefer ignoring facts?
imgur.com/a/OVpwOTU
19 replies
How is that a relevant fact? Zywoo was weaker at the start and stronger at the end and overall achieved better stats and way more MVPs
7 replies
this just shows that Zywoo had 1.13 rating WHOLE SPRING... while S1mple had more than 1.25
6 replies
Good thing its top players of 2020, not top players of Spring 2020.
5 replies
so spring is 1/4 of 2020. what are you talking about?
1/4 of 2020 S1mple had 1.25+ rating and the same whole year
while Zywoo had 1.12-1.13 for 3 months
4 replies
And yet throughout the total year Zywoo was better than s1mple.
So what does that say about S1mples winter Summer and Fall?
3 replies
wrong statement without any arguments.
imgur.com/a/OVpwOTU
2 replies
hltv.org/stats/players/11893/zywoo?start..
Vs
hltv.org/stats/players/7998/s1mple?start..
Theres the numbers very big and easy to read for you ;)
1 reply
so you think that 0.01 rating more is better
while having a slump with 1.13 rating for 3 months? lmao
Yes that combined with the fact that he has triple the amount of MVPs definitely makes up for a small slump which was mainly due to losing their IGL
10 replies
MVPs = your team is winning 90% of the time = doesn't count as individual achievement mostly
9 replies
That was maybe true for 2018 device but 2020 Zywoos MVPs mostly come from him being exceptional despite his team only getting 2nd place.
8 replies
check Beijing Grand Final for example and don't forget your statement that quarters are not important
Zywoo's Beijing MVP was unfair for example
7 replies
Check Beijing total stats. 1.31 to 1.3 and BTW, who won?
6 replies
1.31 to 1.30 is not a big difference if you will check the Grand final when S1mple was +48 K/D and zywoo only +10 or smth
5 replies
So? Did that +48 result in a tournament victory?
4 replies
both had 1.31 / 1.30 rating
and S1mple had +48 in GF and Zywoo only +10
he just took MVP because Vitality won that final smh. and zywoo had 0.01 better rating, but S1mple was still 1.30 and +48 in GF while zywoo only
+10 K/D
3 replies
And yet he couldnt win with that +48 cause he choked on the final 2 maps.
2 replies
teams are winning, we are talking about individual performances and results
1 reply
And ive proved Zywoo's individual stats are better vs elite teamsa nd he earned more awards to support hat claim.
Bro I'm not reading that. Make a new line if you wanna post 2 paragraphs
2 replies
These stats in the final are so misleading. s1mple was great in the first 2 maps and then was unimpactful in the last 3. Of course, he had high KD but he was baiting/saving/ or trying to clutch but he barely won any clutches ( remember apEX, Shox, ZywOo, denying any of potential clutches). Hell even on Mirage he had higher KD than ZywOo while the frenchman made two 1v4 aces and basically gave his team 2 rounds which were transformed into 5 (pistol run+ double eco+ ace again + eco).
Tell me how s1mple was any good on Overpass, Inferno and Mirage ? He wasn't. Just looking at the demo tells you that he has good KD but he wasn't impactful.
Keep in mind that s1mple's playstyle or Na'Vi always allows inflated stats. s1mple had in 2019 higher rating since his KD was inflated ( he had 1.4 KD in 2019 with 1.24 rating in playoffs while ZywOo had 1.34 KD and 1.34 rating in playoffs with 20 more maps).
He has 1.43 KD this year and yet his Impact rating is 0.04 lower than ZywOo ( 1.38 #1) while the frenchman's KD is 1.33,
That means a lot of his kills don't have direct impact on round wins.
ZywOo is the best pistol player of the year according to HLTV, the #2 best clutch behind BlameF. The second best opening fragger #2 behind Art. The tier 1 star player who used the awp less with only 38% usage while dev1ce has 42%, s1mple has 44% and Syrson a whooping 65% usage. He entries as well while BlameF, Ropz and s1mple all play passive, laid back and bait with very low entry % attempt (individual playstyles and team gameplan aligned).
lmao
1. we shouldnt have online mvp(cuz its online...)
2. 6 zywoo` mvps:
1) Blast spring
"showdown", lmao this is lower bracket of Blast group stage(lan + s1mple didn't get even evp(99%) for it but zywoo got mvp for lower bracket)
2) cs_summit
eu event where s1mple cant play(he could take at least evp), ok zywoo is mvp here
3) Cologne
vitality played vs heretics(win), astralis(lost 0:2) and faze(win) in group stage and then played vs sprout(...), nip and heroic(lost 0:3)
vitality even didnt deserve to play in final, that was worst tournament for navi
4) dreamhack open fall
stavn has much more maps + heroic won tournament
5) Beijing-haidian
s1mple had 0.01 rating less with 2 more maps than zywoo(so that evp is almost like mvp)
6) luckiest tournament for vitality(astralis deserved more) + s1mple was better(but top 4 for navi so evp is almost mvp)
79 replies
This is just pure delusion at its finest 0 chance you would apply the same logic to S1mple
60 replies
9 replies
+1 he is just biased Zywoo fan...
You have no real arguments loser. Just trying to discount MVPs cause they don't favor the player whose cock is in your esophagus.
7 replies
6 replies
Say every MVP is worth 2 EVP is 1 and Katowice is +1 for both. Zywoo still wins.
5 replies
4 replies
Yeah... says the one who made the same super weak arguments last year. Losers never learn.
3 replies
2 replies
You were crying last year bro. Then after the rankings came out you said you understood why. You've made 0 relevant arguments for s1mple besides overvaluing Katowice.
1 reply
49 replies
Tell me you're not trying to imply an EVP is as important as an MVP.
#176 for the statistics counter argument
48 replies
47 replies
Except he's not higher vs top tier competition as I posted in #176
46 replies
45 replies
hltv.org/stats/players/11893/zywoo?start..
hltv.org/stats/players/7998/s1mple?start..
Uhh no? You just making numbers up now?
44 replies
6 replies
???? Now you're just reaching incredibly hard. Stay delusional. I'll be here for a glass of your tears when s1 loses
5 replies
4 replies
Bro I've never seen someone reach this hard. You're really butthurt hes gonna lose 2 years in a row. Your ego can't take it because you have no life and live through him, I get it. Its just really sad
3 replies
2 replies
If he's so consistent where are his MVPs?
1 reply
36 replies
Scroll to the top and compare EVERY stastistic and see that 80% of them favor Zywoo
35 replies
34 replies
Only when you include matches vs tier 3 (which s1mple played way more of due to CIS events)
Thats why I did you the favor of comparing them vs top teams in #176
33 replies
Check your #176 again
S1mple vs top20 teams (1.29 rating)
Zywoo vs top20 teams (1.28 rating)
32 replies
By padding K/D. Less clutches, ADR, KAST, entries, impact.
Check top 5 and top 10 btw
31 replies
yeah, when you lost your argument you start talking about "padding" "baiting" and other myths
30 replies
Did you check top 5 and top 10 buddy? Vs the most elite competition Zywoo is better in every metric. Only when you include slightly weaker teams is Zywoo not higher in rating.
29 replies
imgur.com/a/OVpwOTU
this is all you should know about who is better
6 replies
No, cause I'm not biased and look at the entire year. Not just 1 season
5 replies
you are not biased? xD are you trying to bait? check your posts, i proved like 5-6 times that you are biased and you are using double standards when you need to protect zywoo and attack S1mple
4 replies
Literally every time you said it was a double standard it was just you having garbage English and misunderstanding me. You're actually so lost.
3 replies
what exactly have I misunderstood? my English is decent especially for speaking with you
2 replies
Give me one of your double standards and ill clarify, ive made 0 double standards i judge all players ont he same merits.
1 reply
your main double standard was: when you said that quarter matches are not important, then I show you how zywoo won while S1mple was much better in the grand final. and you said that S1mple's grand final was not important. these two things are mutually exclusive
21 replies
Much better no? Slightly better because many were during Vitas rebuilding period after Alex left.
Despite that Zywoo still has more awards than S1mple at those tournaments.
20 replies
19 replies
Like I said its top of 2020. Not top of Katowice or top of Spring
18 replies
13 replies
LMFAOOOOO you're voting 1 Katowice over 6 tournaments. You're super super i credibly extremely insanely ridiculously delusional. Thats fucking hilarious how far you'll go. WOOOOOWWWWW!!!!!
7 replies
6 replies
Its still not worth 1/6 of a LAN MVP.
5 replies
4 replies
Nah at most 2 to 1
3 replies
They all go to places where they have good routing. Almost always under 50 ping, thats just an excuse and it certainly doesnt make it worth 4x as much.
4 replies
3 replies
7 months? Keep reaching bro
2 replies
+1 this zywoo fan is just biased, leave him. i believe in HLTV Admins' fairness
7 replies
Keep circle jerking loser. These are incredibly biased statements.
Just like you believed last year right? So cringe. I'll be hear to collect the tears
6 replies
you are talking rude which only proves that you are out of arguments and you lost
5 replies
My confidence does not mean im wrong. Calling you a pathetic fangirl is only a result of your exreme bias.
You're the one who has yet to respond to my arguments in #144. Keep deflecting and avoiding the argument cause you know you lost, its comical to see you struggle so hard to find a reason you're right.
4 replies
stop rekting yourself bro
s1mple > zywoo (confirmed by facts)
3 replies
Still no counterarguments, just "I'm right, you're wrong" expected from Slavic countries tho.
I'll be here in 5 days when you're weeping. Stay seething loser. And take an English class. Reading your rubble is super cringe.
2 replies
weak attempt, but don't worry that much
1 reply
Keep projecting.
you're textbook delusional or have idiotic takes everytime I see your comments. And everytime I still lose time replying to you. That's my sin, I am usually not easely tilted but you just never learn. We don't mind if you provide decent arguments but what you provide here is nothing but rubbish.
9 replies
8 replies
Very garbage bait. Thats not how logic works.
7 replies
6 replies
If that were true then why isn't Jame the highest rated player in the world. His teammates are worse than both Vitality and Navi
5 replies
4 replies
So by your logic he has better teammates yet is playing on a lower tier?
Also the sentence about gamesense and aim is insanely delusional. Zywoo is the most aware player I've ever watched. He literally always knows and never misses, less than any other player including s1mple because he plays the percentages.
3 replies
2 replies
how can u say 6mvps when 2 of them are from rmr events ?
s1mple leading by 0.03 in elite events he was good all year while zywoo was good past middle of the year
how can u give it too zywoo only for 6 months ?
this is a top of the entire year not only 6 months, yea sure give it to zywoo for the last 3 months it was better then s1mple and vita won more then navi but u cant say zywoo was better then s1mple whole year, zywoo was practically afk in the first 4-6 months
was bad at every single lan( 3 of them ) and bad in online events as well while navi was in every single t1 playoffs of elite events both lan and online ( i think they got out in cologne in group stage the only event) so s1mple deserve this one for sure
8 replies
How are you gonna discount RMR events when they had the best teams and lead to massive tournaments? Thats bias and delusional, you wouldn't do that for s1mlple that's for sure.
I'm giving it to zywoo by comparing the entire year. Better rating vs top 5 and top 10. More MVPs more finals.
You're literally basing your entire argument around Katowice and ignoring 90% of the year.
6 replies
I don't know, if HLTV puts s1mple first, I'll be calling it the top 20 katowice list. And next year if there's a major, I want the top 20 list of that major too !
Because Katowice seems to have more weight than any major we've had. I've been upset by dev1ce's robbed #2 last year. I don't really care if s1mple takes #1 but it'll just confirm that the ranking is quite flawed.
wait what ? better ratings againts top 5 and top 10 ? xdddddd
s1mple againts top 5 1.31 rating
zywoo againts top 5 1.29 rating
and s1mple has 11 more maps then zywoo played againts top 5 u are blind
s1mple leads in elite event by 0.03 ratings thats fucking a lot stop type 10% 90% rest of the year when s1mple was better whole year
and yea u cant count rmr events bcs s1mple played in cis and they don t give mvps for cis rmr events thats why s1mple don t give a fuck
s1mple was at the beggining, in the middle and at the end of the year while zywoo was only at the end of the year
so they are obliged to give it to s1mple
1 reply
2 replies
You explained a lie bro, top 4 at RTR in April where he got an Evp
1 reply
RMR events in EU had very strong opposition. Dreamhack Open had the same opposition than EPL yet they didn't include it and they didn't explain why.
u are so fucking dogshit u know ? u select top 10 where is the only top where zywoo is over s1mple u fucking delusional kid
check top 5 check top 20 top 30 top 50
zywoo has 1.29 againts top 5
s1mple has 1.31 againts top 5
s1mple leads in elite events by 0.03 ratings huge diff
stop count 2 mvps from rmr event when s1mple couldn t play those
this is a top of a whole year
where was zywoo in the first 3 months of the year ? it was to mall to eat like a fat dog
stop being delusional s1mple was and it is the best player in 2020
stop with 6mvp > 2mvps
while zywoo has 2 evps and s1mple has 8 evps all from those "elite events" where s1mple leading massive
ok
Edit: Understandable, have a nice day!
Nothing is "confirmed" until it has been announced. This is still an opinion and therefore I will respect it and treat it as one.
Have a good day, friend.
2 replies
+1
Have an opinion all you like, but the results are not that far now...
Whoever gets #1 i know there will be saltmines on hltv so i can't wait for some entertaining crying threads.
2 replies
The more you know
The biggest layer of Salt is located on HLTV forums.
+1
seems that winning the biggest lan of 2020 is > than 6mvps
3 replies
#74
s1mple played insane on 3 LANs and he is leading by far in elite events with more maps.
2 replies
Which 3 LANS are we talking about here ? Pretty sure EPL was Online. You don't consider We play clutch island and gamers without borders right ? I mean these tournaments aren't even MVP-worthy while EU RMR tournaments were by miles, hell even of some of them had the same opposition than EPL.
1 reply
ICE Challenge
Blast Premier Spring Series
IEM Katowice
s1mple 214 maps this year (38 on LAN)
8 maps in Gamers without borders charity online event.
s1mple has better rating in elite events. He has more maps. He has more playoffs played. He has better grand finals rating. He has better playoffs rating. He has more EVPs. ZywOo has 3 stier and 3 atier MVPs. s1mple has 2 S tier MVPs ( katowice should be double). And s1mple could have won 2 of the 3 Stier MVPs which ZywOo have if NAVI won . And at IEM BEIJING s1mple got robbed cause of that 1v4 clutch by ZywOo. s1mple had better FINALs rating which should have given him the MVP. s1mple has better rating vs top5 (0.02) and worse rating vs top10 (0.01) and better was top 20 and tied vs top30 and top50. And s1mple has been consistent through out LAN and online. So I do not only see KATOWICE leaning towards s1mple? The only reason I would give it to ZywOo is 6 MVPs but expect that everything leans towards s1mple. And he deserves this. Alot of people just watch highlight channels on YT I think. Or people just watched some CS in last few months only. s1mple should be top1 if not hes getting robbed. And do not cry about baiting.
14 replies
+1
+1 the truth
So bet all the money if you are very confident
this
I love you bro <3
robbed while ZywOo had a higher rating on the tournament, doing two 1v4 ace clutches in the final, in the decider map and giving his team 5 rounds all by himself ? Then later on hero awps in ecos where he won more. ROBBED ?
You started ok with your early statements but now you just have an idiotic take like the other fanboys (no wonder they +1 upvote you).
Na'Vi and s1mple consistent Online ? That has to be a joke right ? Are you really going to dismiss CIS RMR tournaments at the turn of a hat ? So it's great to point out lows in others but not your own players ? I've watched Na'Vi all year and s1mple had inflated stats in those RMR tournaments (though on the lower end of the spectrum), he was unimpactful and Na'Vi was dysfunctional. Even Electronic couldn't make it work.
"Highlights on Youtube" when Na'Vi and CIS fanbase is huge, look at many videos are about Na'Vi or s1mple on youtube, he has the greatest softpower by far. That has to be a bait.
Your argument can be resumed by:
s1mple's stats > ZywOo stats
2 MVPs >6 MVPs QUICK MATHS
4 replies
LOL nice argmunet s1mple performed avarage at tier-3 event so he shouldnt get top-1, or maybe playing better in tier-1 events make you top-1 that some tier-3 CIS dogshit events???
If you play bad at tier-3 events that mean that your all stats lower than stats at elite tier events, tell me do you think s1mple would be better if he performed way worse at katowice but better at tier-3 CIS event???
Playing worse at CIS event it's also argument in s1mples favour cuz it makes his stats at event that metter a bit better
1 reply
I never said it mattered more, notable stats are always considering oppositions and playoffs, but you can't try to hide them or not consider them because they have lesser impact/ importance. That's trying to a hide a dead body with just a bit of dirt and a flower on top. That's not how rankings should work. All the top 5 players this year have had ups and downs, you and others are just straight up ignoring it and focusing on Katowice where he did well.
ok
s1mple is better, but not just because of LANs. He had better stats if you look at stability line the other numbers are pretty equal
13 replies
+1
1 reply
imgur.com/a/OVpwOTU
share this so everyone will see that S1mple is absolutely top1 of 2020
10 replies
1. imgur.com/a/OVpwOTU
2. - hltv.org/stats/players/7998/s1mple?start..
- hltv.org/stats/players/11893/zywoo?start..
S1mple was objectively better and numbers only prove this
9 replies
If you're going to talk about and comparing the stats then sure.
hltv.org/stats/players/7998/s1mple?start..
hltv.org/stats/players/11893/zywoo?start..
In term of MVP, Impact, ADR, rating 2.0, KAST and DPR, ZywOo is so much better than s1mple. Only reason why s1mple has a better KPR than ZywOo is by saving his AWP, exit kills, trading dead teammates (in other words baiting for stats)
8 replies
just check this thing:
imgur.com/a/OVpwOTU
7 replies
3 replies
> "'This thing' doesn't prove shit lmao"
ignoring arguments is not a good way of winning the discussion
2 replies
1 reply
what are you talking about? check this picture and check whole spring period, compare it with S1mple's line (yellow) and then we can back to the discussion
This means nothing besides not making arguments. Is there no fan of Na'Vi in this thread ? Is SWARN151 the only person who can make arguments for s1mple in a decent way ? I'm getting tilted.
Because I love Electronic and I could provide a lot of arguments against or in his favor but apparently, all the s1mple fanboys provide empty or flawed arguments.
2 replies
answer with arguments, instead of bringing some "navi fans" shit conspiracy theory. if the line of rating (for whole 2020) is not an argument for you, then i guess there is no need of this discussion in general
1 reply
SWARN151 provided it almost a month ago, I'm aware of the fact it matters. Which conspiracy are you talking about here ? s1mple fanboys are legions, nt_noscene, alts and co are on every thread.
rpk #5 EZ
when blamef is on the list you know its a joke
So bet all the money
Or you are a liar
s1mple is by far the best player in the world. He proved it on LAN and online in All elite events.
1 reply
+111111
GOAT s1mple top1 ez
+11111111 EZ #1 FOR GOAT S1MPLE
+111 ez for goat simple
Update playoff ratings where ZywOo leads by a lot : events.y0fl0w.de/
4 replies
2 replies
1 reply
I'm both a ZywOo fan and Electronic fan
It's not because of LAN, it's because HLTV giving a huge importance to MVPs and EVPs in this year (for some reason)
If they give a huge importance to LAN performance, then KSCERATO, HEN1, and won't really be in that list. And syrsoN & yuurih would be way lower. But they has bunch of MVPs/EVPs, so they're on list. Same with Brehze, jks, stavn, etc.
And then NAF won't be top21 because he fucked up on LANs (especially he fucked up IEM Katowice)
8 replies
2.0 rating is still more important. imgur.com/a/OVpwOTU
1. s1mple
2. zywoo
7 replies
But s1mple and ZywOo has the same stats through the year, lol.
Elec was inconsistent through the year, but still he's top5 (underserved, imo)
6 replies
check this - imgur.com/a/OVpwOTU
zywoo had big slump during 3-4 months (spring) while S1mple was always ~ more than 1.25 rating. Yellow line is S1mple and Blue line is Zywoo. You can check it yourself - hltv.org/stats/players/compare/7998/s1mp.. (scroll down a little bit to see "Form" graph).
5 replies
Electronic had a big slump after the summer break (3-4 months), but stil he's higher than ropz and blameF who where consistent through the year.
4 replies
because ropz and blameF had bigger slump, just check links which i gave you. if you are scared of picture, then just open 2nd link with HLTV stats and watch yourself
3 replies
Where they has bigger slump?
Ropz more consistent than elec:
hltv.org/stats/players/compare/8918/elec..
Same with blameF:
hltv.org/stats/players/compare/8918/elec..
2 replies
then it is probably because of LAN events
1 reply
It's because he has more EVPs and MVP, that's all.
While blameF and ropz don't have an MVP and lower number of EVPs.
So that means that Kato is somewhat of a major rn?
1 reply
s1mple 0 major so keep dreaming xd
Waiting for Ukrainian cry
#1 zywoo
Later only left vodka :*
s1mple much better than ZywOo in Rating 1.0
1 reply
s1mple top 1 2020
4 replies
bro where u at kkkkkkkk, deleting account?
KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
rip
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