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Play-Offs Rating - HLTV Top20 - Clarifications
Sadokist | 
New Zealand SWARN151 
Play-offs rating, as we all know, is an important factor in deciding HLTV Top20 Rankings. Many users have attempted to do it by themselves, with varying discrepancies. Yet, we don't have a publicly available option, to view/confirm it directly. So, I approached Striker once again, to clarify a *VERY IMPORTANT POINT*. Striker: imgur.com/a/LLih3I4 It is very important to note that "playoffs" actually mean different things for different tournaments. According to HLTV, it officially means *THE TOP HALF* of a tournament, when the lower half has been eliminated. So, for tournaments like IEM Global Challenge, Blast Finals, etc, where there are only 8 teams (and no explicit separation between group-stage and playoffs), play-offs refer to the stage after 4 teams have been eliminated. On the other hand, in tournaments with explicit group stage and playoffs stage, in case the playoffs have only half the total teams, then it's counted as playoffs. PS: Have a nice day, everyone :)
2021-01-17 10:37
Topics are hidden when running Sport mode.
TLDR: HLTV Top20 officially considers "The Top Half" of "Notable/big events" as the play-offs. For those matches, the aggregate rating is referred to as Play-offs Rating, and that is a very crucial factor in Top20 Rankings
2021-01-17 10:37
4 replies
Except if teams had to qualify for the tourney. In other words: if there were eliminations before this stage
2021-01-17 14:54
3 replies
Uhh no, that's probably not what he said. It doesn't include the stage when "The tournament was only played in a playoffs bracket." Even if teams were eliminated to get there (like Blast Finals), since the event is only a playoffs stage with 8 teams, only the top4 stage would be considered.
2021-01-17 15:00
2 replies
Right, so these elims should be part of the same tourney for the whole play offs stage to be counted as play offs in the rating. If u qualify, but the qualification was a separate tourney then only top half is considered play offs in the rating
2021-01-17 15:06
1 reply
Yeah, perhaps you are correct :)
2021-01-17 15:09
Tldr S1mple >>>> zywoo Save time guys
2021-01-17 10:40
2 replies
stop using alt accounts I'm reporting you. You've done this enough
2021-01-17 13:36
1 reply
ahahaha bro stop it
2021-01-17 13:38
#3
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Namibia Nt_NoScene
GOAT s1mple #1 2020 so ez
2021-01-17 10:40
1 reply
no doubts
2021-01-17 13:28
#4
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United States jack4000
why do we not have access to these stats
2021-01-17 10:41
9 replies
#9
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Kyrgyzstan coldyara
+1
2021-01-17 10:42
No idea, friend :D Apparently, they wish to make it difficult for users to predict everything. We can surely do it manually. The rating in a play-offs match has to be scaled with the number of maps played in that series, all of it has to be summed up, and divided by the total number of maps. There we have it, play-offs rating. The only problem was, people didn't know which matches counted as playoffs. Many counted the full tournaments like Blast Finals, IEM Global Challenge, etc, as play-offs. However, that's not true, as has been officially confirmed.
2021-01-17 10:45
2 replies
#11
 | 
United States jack4000
I really hope some new site is coming up that gives us all the stats we want and ends HLTV..
2021-01-17 10:47
1 reply
Hahahaa :D Good day :)
2021-01-17 11:45
+1
2021-01-17 10:50
+1
2021-01-17 11:18
#43
 | 
Finland who_asked
+1
2021-01-17 11:46
+1 Muh rankerngs must be difficult
2021-01-17 13:06
+1
2021-01-17 13:27
S1mple go go go!
2021-01-17 10:41
1 reply
+1
2021-01-17 13:26
With this *officially confirmed* piece of information about Play-offs rating, the stats enthusiasts can calculate the ratings for the players published so far, to verify the stats. In addition, it would now be interesting to know what would be ZywOo and s1mple's playoffs rating.
2021-01-17 10:42
So, what does this mean now? Who leads in play-offs ratings? s1mple or ZywOo? I saw some users talking about playoffs stats. Can all you nerds do the calculations once again? If I get it right, s1mple should have many more play-offs maps than ZywOo, in "big events". I am not sure of the rating though....
2021-01-17 10:49
27 replies
Well, s1mple should have thee same number of playoffs maps as electronic, obviously. Somebody will have to do the calculations :D I am too lazy to do it myself
2021-01-17 10:51
26 replies
So, in case ZywOo has a slightly higher rating but lesser maps, and s1mple has a slightly lower rating but more maps, who is the winner in this category?
2021-01-17 10:53
25 replies
No idea :D It's upto them in such a case.
2021-01-17 10:54
24 replies
If it's really close like 1.32 with 45 maps (like electronic) and 1.34 with 30 or so maps, I would say s1mple wins this category, logically :/
2021-01-17 11:00
23 replies
If that is the case, then yes, I agree :)
2021-01-17 11:01
#24
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Namibia Nt_NoScene
Where did you see that?
2021-01-17 11:04
6 replies
Somebody posted it yesterday, perhaps. I don't think I can find it now. The best option is to calculate it.
2021-01-17 11:06
5 replies
#27
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Namibia Nt_NoScene
Can you find it and post it here? Because I want to see it :D
2021-01-17 11:12
4 replies
1 reply
#45
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Namibia Nt_NoScene
thx
2021-01-17 11:50
Here are a few: hltv.org/forums/threads/2404456/s1mple-v.. However, all of these have to be recalculated, obviously
2021-01-17 11:31
1 reply
#46
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Namibia Nt_NoScene
2021-01-17 11:51
They didn't consider the number of maps the previous years, especially for the dev1ce and s1mple's cases in 2019 so I don't think it should matter.
2021-01-17 13:38
14 replies
Though in my book, it should matter like it should have mattered in 2019. We'll see if they stick with the previous year's ranking or if they breach through some new logic this time.
2021-01-17 14:19
13 replies
It would surely matter. Otherwise, BlameF would have been higher than Electronic. Also, a friend just told me that the rating with all these considerations, would be like 1.31 in favour of s1mple (including all big events, not just elite) and it would be 1.30 or so in favour of ZywOo (across) EU events. If we only consider the elite events, s1mple leads in rating with more maps in the upper playoffs. It's kinda really close :)
2021-01-17 14:50
12 replies
Yes I totally agree with you! It should matter but what I'm saying is a topic I have already talked about to SWARN151. In 2019, according to this logic and to me, dev1ce should have been #2 and not #3, considering the huge amount of maps differences, not only in big events but against tougher opposition : hltv.org/forums/threads/2214842/bigevent.. Because, in 2020, provided the tournaments you include or exclude, ZywOo could have less maps than s1mple ( the other way is true too) but I believe in both cases, opposition is similar, if not higher for ZywOo (considering RMR tournaments). This was definetely not the case in 2019 for s1mple as Na'Vi almost never breached into that "upper-half" for 2019 since Na'Vi only won Starseries and made zero 2nd places, only five 3-4th placings. If you filter against top 5 or top 10, he's not present because he didn't even play enough maps for this filter to show his stats (while ZywOo is at least and has the most maps I believe against top 5 in 2019). In individual awards too, he had thrice less MVPs than dev1ce ( only 1 mvp against Dev1ce's 3 MVPs) and less EVPs ( 5 for s1mple, 7 for Dev1ce). Not to mention team achievements ^^. To me, they've done a mistake that year but it's all in the past now. What I want to get to is how the ranking's logic doesn't transfer to other years it would seem. Especially if we consider how chaotic 2020 was, it's hard to draw any line what so ever, it's even hard to know what we value in all of this.
2021-01-17 15:22
3 replies
Ahh that's interesting. Yes, perhaps device deserved it more than s1mple in 2019. Hope it's a fair thing this year :)
2021-01-17 15:29
2 replies
Yhea . EDIT: I meant "most maps against TOP 10" for ZywOo. He doesn't appear in the top 5 filter either ( just by a few maps though, it's not on s1mple's level who has less than 10-15 maps against top 5 opposition in the year of CS where teams probably played the most). FUN FACT: Pros played less maps in 2020 then they did in 2019 or the previous years. Just shows you how mad the schedule is with LANS lol !
2021-01-17 15:47
1 reply
Right!
2021-01-17 16:27
s1mple will win. Since he has better finals rating than ZywOo.
2021-01-17 15:54
7 replies
Perhaps, let's see. I hope someone calculates the ratings and posts it here:D
2021-01-17 16:27
It will be impossible to predict, since we don't know how much ZywOo's MVPs would matter.....
2021-01-17 16:29
3 replies
He has 2 stier mvps. ZywOo has 3 stier mvps. But since s1mple has 1 katowice it should be very close. And s1mple has 2 stier evps which are as good as mvp, so that equals 2 atier mvps that zywoo has. And s1mple has alot of other good tier evps aswell. So at the end its like 50/50. And not only that, s1mple will win top5,top10 rating. s1mple will win in elite events rating. And at playoffs rating, its gonna be 50/50. But since s1mple has better finals rating. He will win. And in the end, it will be like if we do points. Elite events 100 points goes to s1mple. Top5,top10 100 point goes to s1mple. mvps/evps you give 50/50 to both. And by playoffs rating s1mple should get 100 since he has better finals rating but even if you divide 50/50. s1mple has 300 while ZywOo has 100 points. Idk maybe I am biased but w.e.
2021-01-17 16:49
2 replies
Interesting take :D Have a nice day :)
2021-01-17 16:57
1 reply
Thanks and you too mens))))
2021-01-17 17:00
Final ratings alone are too misleading ^^ On IEM beijing ZywOo had lesser stats but higher impact, especially on the last 3 maps and the map decider. s1mple had great stats on the last 3 maps but look at his clutch rate, he's almost lost all of his clutches ( of course, we remember apEX or shox clutching against him on Mirage) but what I'm talking about is also Overpass, inferno where he had great KD but wasn't impactful while Electronic had way worse KD but had a lot of impactful rounds. He was great if not really good on both Nuke and DUST 2 (especially the cool smoke he used towards plat on A site which allows him to take fights against isolated players and buy time for the retake) but for the last 3 maps he had no impact. Some s1mple fans wanted him to have the MVP while ZywOo literally did a better tournament stats wise. Also what we remember from that final is ZywOo on Mirage going nuclear ( and he has only 20 kills which shows you how much weight his kills had), 2 1v4 clutch aces. One hero AWP eco where he gets 2 entries on the A site, gives his team 6 rounds just with these 3 impact rounds. In the first 5 rounds of the map, he's 11-0 and Vitality is 5-0 up.
2021-01-17 16:35
1 reply
Indeed. Rankings will not be able to take such things into account, though :( A 1.47 rating across 5 maps will have a lot of weight compared to 1.23 across 5 maps.
2021-01-17 16:38
Is there a statistic page with this filter?
2021-01-17 10:53
4 replies
No, there isn't officially. Some users have managed to do it by themselves. But, they did it with the wrong assumptions. Now that we know which matches are actually counted as play-offs, they will have to do it again :)
2021-01-17 10:56
3 replies
That is kinda hard to calculate with available filters I guess
2021-01-17 10:57
2 replies
Yeah, as I said in #10 2nd paragraph. We need patience to do it :D
2021-01-17 10:59
1 reply
Agree xD
2021-01-17 10:59
Bump
2021-01-17 11:10
why cant hltv just offer a service where you can pay to access all the stats? Or like give us more shit to look at. They arent using their biggest asset enough imo could be so much more better.
2021-01-17 11:31
10 replies
Lol, true :D Well, we do have an option to calculate it ourselves, and verify with the players that are already published. For example: Stavn: "1.15 rating (seventh-best) in a very solid sample size of 50 maps in Big Event playoffs." BlameF: "20 playoff maps at big events, with 1.13 rating" Syrson: "Big event playoffs (1.12 rating from 46 maps)"
2021-01-17 11:35
5 replies
well he explained which counts as a play-off and which doesnt so its easy to calculate. Just a waste of time to manually see which maps/matches were playoffs or not.
2021-01-17 11:37
4 replies
Yeah. Why don't you try to do it? :D
2021-01-17 11:38
3 replies
sadly i have shit to do nowadays. maybe if this was like 2-3 years ago i might have actually wasted my time calculating this shit. or i will just waste my time doing other useless shit tbh
2021-01-17 11:39
2 replies
Lol, I understand :D Have a nice day :)
2021-01-17 11:39
1 reply
Have a nice day aswell mate :D
2021-01-17 11:41
These stats would've no meaning except to draft a top 20 players ranking. Why would hltv compromise it by letting some randos predict it (even with ~80% accuracy)? These stats are only useful to them.
2021-01-17 11:39
3 replies
why? shows how well players perform against on average better teams when the stakes are at their highest (we dont have double elim past group stage in most games). Its an interesting stat nonetheless
2021-01-17 11:40
2 replies
Most wouldn't bother to look at such fine details and the rankings wouldn't mean anything if all of us could predict it
2021-01-17 11:49
1 reply
You have a point. But, just like regular ratings, playoffs ratings truly tell us how a player performs in the most important stages of a tournament. It tells us a lot about the player, right? That's why HLTV counts it :)
2021-01-17 11:52
bump
2021-01-17 11:36
2 replies
Ty :)
2021-01-17 11:38
+1
2021-01-17 13:28
#47
 | 
Finland who_asked
Let's hope someone will waste his time on calculating it now XD
2021-01-17 11:52
1 reply
Yeah lol. I did find a few threads about this from r0flow, luboss, and others. Perhaps swarn himself would do it :D
2021-01-17 12:49
Bump
2021-01-17 12:46
1 reply
Thanks :)
2021-01-17 14:54
Bump, bro. I didn't considered that aspect of the question yet. HLTV's definetely doing some meticulous work. Thank you!
2021-01-17 13:05
1 reply
Thank you! Yeah, this does change a lot of things. The notable stats might be different for both. And depending on the tournaments, it would definitely change a lot.
2021-01-17 14:46
Well, one more bump won't hurt
2021-01-17 13:15
1 reply
Ty :)
2021-01-17 15:18
I didn't imagine they would do it like that. That's weird tbh.
2021-01-17 13:40
11 replies
Yes, indeed. According to some calculations, both of them would be almost tied.....
2021-01-17 14:47
10 replies
+1
2021-01-17 14:50
You mean recent ones or the ones we've talked about prior to this ? :)
2021-01-17 14:57
8 replies
After this update from Striker. Some people on HLTV have been messaging me, and discussing stats/events and stuff. According to 3 of them, they are practically tied, depending on the tournaments chosen. It's like 1.31 for s1mple and 1.30 for ZywOo in one case. 1.32 for s1mple and 1.33 for ZywOo in a different set of tournaments. Taking only elite events' upper half, it becomes 1.36 in s1mple's favour and 1.31 in ZywOo's favour (but they will obviously consider more than just elite events). s1mple also seems to have significantly more maps across big and elite events. RmRs increase ZywOo's maps slightly but they decrease the rating. They might post it sometime. I have literally over 20 messages related to this in my inbox :D
2021-01-17 15:06
7 replies
Hahaha Yhea. I wasn't wrong saying that including EU RMR tournaments decrease his rating. What about CIS tournaments? They won't include it since Na'Vi didn't make it ? Playoff ratings in 2020 is just too weird, don't know we can draw any conclusions to them tbh xD. The more we know, the more confusing it is.
2021-01-17 15:09
6 replies
I don't know for sure if CIS RmRs would be excluded. Since striker said "Notable events", I think CIS wouldn't be counted. And yes you could be right that RMRs decrease (although not by much, like 0.01 or so) ZywOo's rating.
2021-01-17 15:13
5 replies
Well that's fair I guess, it's hard to know on which foot to stand currently.
2021-01-17 15:49
4 replies
+1
2021-01-17 16:29
Yo, check #103
2021-01-17 17:58
2 replies
Oh my, it actually seems accurate. They're so close actually, what's going on, they also have pretty much the same rating outside of playoffs. Kinda crazy situation xD
2021-01-17 18:06
1 reply
y0flow is here as well :)
2021-01-17 18:13
BUMP :D
2021-01-17 17:34
Hey SWARN, someone sent me this: Is it good? s1mple: (0.97x3)+(1.32x2)+(1.47x5)+(1.31x3)+(1.42x2)+(1.23x2)+(1.15x4)+(1.29x2)+(1.11x2)+(2.11x2)+(1.22x3)+(1.40x3)+(1.08x2)+(1.24x3)+(1.00x2)+(1.02x3)+(1.52x3)+(1.79x2)+(1.28x2) = 65,25 65,25/50 = 1,305, so overall 1.31 playoff rating. ZywOo: (1.25x3)+(1.39x3)+(1.23x5)+(1.43x2)+(1.45x3)+(1.11x3)+(1.74x2)+(1.66x2)+(1.21x3)+(1.30x3)+(1.12x2)+(1.56x3)+(1.37x2)+(1.42x2)+(1.17x3)+(1.23x5)+(1.14x2)+(1.20x3)+(1.12x3) = 70,34 70,34/54 = 1,302, so overall 1.30 playoffs rating. Is this correct?
2021-01-17 17:52
10 replies
Well well :D Looks like someone has finally done the calculation. I obviously haven't checked this. I hope somebody can verify. Coz I haven't got the dedication to do it :D
2021-01-17 17:54
2 replies
This is surely quite exciting. I had assumed that ZywOo would have a better playoffs rating. Turns out that it could actually be in s1mple's favour.
2021-01-17 17:55
1 reply
Well, I can't confirm or deny :D Let's see.
2021-01-17 17:57
highly doubt that is correct you have to calculate the rounds-played weighted arithmetic mean of the map ratings e.g. a 40 rounds ot map with 1.2 rating and a 16:0 with a 1.4 rating leads to (40*1.2+16*1.4)/56 = 1.257
2021-01-17 18:07
4 replies
Thank you for addressing this. Are you sure that weighted average of rounds, is what is actually done? Or do they just do it as per maps? Since arithmetic mean isn't linear, this would mean: Summation (Map rating x number of rounds)/Summation (rounds). Do they do this, or is it like #103 ?
2021-01-17 18:11
3 replies
pretty sure its weighted by the amount of rounds played, i've verified that by going through some aggregated ratings some time ago manually
2021-01-17 18:13
2 replies
Thank you for confirming. Have a nice day :)
2021-01-17 18:14
Okay, so more work is required :D Thanks :)
2021-01-17 18:15
Good job mate ! I don't know if it's accurate I thank you for your work :) it does prove one thing though. They're incredibly close.
2021-01-17 18:27
1 reply
Yeah, I guess.....
2021-01-17 18:33
updated my site for playoff ratings big events are the now so called "elite events" - 8 events small events include both silver/bronze whats a playoff map? basically its the natural meaning, not the half of the teams are eliminated approach which is apparently used by hltv isPlayoffMatch := !strings.Contains(textBox, "Swiss round") && !strings.Contains(textBox, "Group") && !strings.Contains(textBox, "Best of 1") events.y0fl0w.de
2021-01-17 18:17
13 replies
So, if you didn't exclude half the teams, as per the HLTV way, this is not what HLTV Top20 official rankings would be taking into account, right?
2021-01-17 18:19
10 replies
correct, dont know how many events are actually affected by this i guess for most of the events it comes down to the same set of matches which will count as playoff matches
2021-01-17 18:21
9 replies
Right. IEM Kato, EPL-11 (perhaps) and EPl-12, IEM Beijing, DHM Spring, DHM Winter, ESL One Cologne would probably remain same. Blast Spring Finals, Blast Fall Finals, IEM Global Challenge, the other silver EU tournaments, probably would be affected.
2021-01-17 18:23
8 replies
global challenge? naah 4/8 teams were eliminated at the point we reached official playoffs - 2 teams from each group qualified for playoffs
2021-01-17 18:25
7 replies
Oh yes, sorry my bad. Happened to type that by mistake :D
2021-01-17 18:26
Blast fall finals, yes, i actually count all of that matches as playoff matches, thats fucked up
2021-01-17 18:27
5 replies
Lol :D Regardless, you have my sincere respect for investing so much time into making the tool ^_^
2021-01-17 18:30
4 replies
did that 2 years ago... wouldn't do it again haha for 2020 i just had to add the event ids together with the event tier and let it fetch the ratings
2021-01-17 18:34
3 replies
Yeah, I understand very well how you did it (if you read my bio :D). The point was that you actually decided to invest time into this. I would be too lazy to even build a custom API lol. Forget about designing a structured UI lol.
2021-01-17 18:37
2 replies
too much time while studying :D
2021-01-17 18:39
1 reply
Nice! :D
2021-01-17 18:42
Good job mate ! See that I cared about this xD I'm glad you updated it :DD But should I remove the "small events" filter though ? When I remove it ZywOo's rating in playoffs goes up to 1.35 (makes me thing of some calculations from hltv staff who found something similar) and s1mple is at 1.32. But with small events, they have completely equal ratings O_o hahahah
2021-01-17 18:32
1 reply
Small events are basically all events which dont have a coloured trophy icon in the dropdown, big events are the ones which hltv classified as elite events for this year
2021-01-17 18:33
Still not sure what playoffs means Lets take a look at Blast Spring Finals Europe hltv.org/events/5202/blast-premier-sprin.. They use a time-based approach? Upper semi finals would not be counted as playoff matches because Lower semis(the point where 4 teams were eliminated) were played afterwards Or a event-progress based approach? If i had to choose i would include the upper semis
2021-01-17 18:46
1 reply
Guess it makes sense to just wait it out. This was as far as they were willing to divulge the info. I don't think they're gonna reveal the specifics.
2021-01-17 18:52
One last bump, just so people know about this :D
2021-01-17 19:33
2 replies
oh wait nevermind, I missed blast fall finals
2021-01-17 22:05
1 reply
As #131 said, it's kinda ambiguous. So, we'll just have to wait, I guess.
2021-01-18 08:01
Sinners
1.48
AGO
2.58
StylDunow
1.04
GROND
10.50
Infinity
1.31
Supremacy
2.77
Bet value
Amount of money to be placed
Winning
Odds total ratio
-
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