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Vitality should be banned.
k1to | 
Germany BadBro 
You dont know if they still watch the stream BUT they did cheat by watching the stream and cheating should not be punished by 10k ... thats nothing! They should be banned for hallf a year at least! Or they will continue cheating. as good of a team Vitality is, cheating should not be tolerated or everybody can start doing it!
2021-01-24 17:28
Topics are hidden when running Sport mode.
Ok s0mple fan
2021-01-24 17:29
4 replies
he is B.I.G fan
2021-01-24 17:30
2 replies
Look his profil Big and Navi and fan of Simple.
2021-01-24 17:31
nice iq xd
2021-01-24 22:48
#6
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
ex-MIBR should also be banned!
2021-01-24 17:30
#2
 | 
France Titanro
cry man read what ESIC said and come back. It's a mistake not a cheat. They listened to the vocals and nothing wrong
2021-01-24 17:29
55 replies
#10
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
mistake??? you cant be serious the watched the stream by mistake??? wtf
2021-01-24 17:30
53 replies
The stream was on by accident,nobody looked at it
2021-01-24 17:31
31 replies
#26
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
omegalul you cant be serious man someone started the stream by accident and nobody of them looked at it??? sounds pretty fake
2021-01-24 17:33
30 replies
yeah imagine having eyes in your back
2021-01-24 17:35
29 replies
#37
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
it was in front of them and btw there are 3 people at least in teh room not playing but able to talk
2021-01-24 17:36
28 replies
"it was in front of them" No it wasn't lol
2021-01-24 17:36
16 replies
#47
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
my other point still applys
2021-01-24 17:37
15 replies
yeah the coach, analyst and the manager ? It's allowed + no connection to the stream sniping thing
2021-01-24 17:41
14 replies
#66
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
the coach is never allowed to watch the stream! and for the staff it is also forbidden if they sit in the same room and can talk to the players
2021-01-24 17:41
13 replies
no It's allowed. + the coach was behind the players and not watching the stream screen that was in the room behind them
2021-01-24 17:42
12 replies
#74
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
so you coach can watch the stream and call you everything???? you must be joking,.....
2021-01-24 17:43
11 replies
the coach was behind the players and not watching the stream the coach was behind the players and not watching the stream the coach was behind the players and not watching the stream the coach was behind the players and not watching the stream the coach was behind the players and not watching the stream the coach was behind the players and not watching the stream
2021-01-24 17:48
#96
device | 
Denmark 4vs0
if this happened to navi or big you wouldn't be complaining, let it go it wasn't that big of a deal if the players and coach didn't see the stream
2021-01-24 17:55
8 replies
yes i would! i BIG would watch the stream i would throw my BIG jersey in the trash and would start the same discussion! cheating is absolutely trash and should be punished hard! i know you wont belive me but i tell thje truth
2021-01-24 17:58
7 replies
how did the players cheat
2021-01-24 17:58
6 replies
read the Thread i am not reapeting everything again and again and again
2021-01-24 18:00
5 replies
because what u typed isnt true the players didn't cheat at most u could say the management cheated but that doesn't exactly mean the players deserve to be punished
2021-01-24 18:01
Tehn throw your big jersey because big used jump bug in a major
2021-01-24 18:04
3 replies
nt hltv.org/news/21053/crouch-jump-bug-offi.. 2 seconds of research stop sharing trash
2021-01-24 18:06
2 replies
the players agreed to not use it but still bug clan used it
2021-01-24 21:34
1 reply
it was allowed??? you compare sth allowed to sth not allowed
2021-01-24 21:58
2021-01-24 18:00
lost all respect for big fans
2021-01-24 17:37
9 replies
#49
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
do i look like i care?
2021-01-24 17:37
8 replies
you look like a lot of things atm men))) not good things tho
2021-01-24 17:39
7 replies
#63
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
idc cheating should be banned Vitality cheated ex_mibr cheated end of last year many coaches cheated all should be banned!
2021-01-24 17:41
6 replies
what's the point of making a thread if you just ignore all the answers? there is an official statement and you also ignore it, come on now next time your big brain comes up with another awesome idea just keep it for yourself then
2021-01-24 18:11
5 replies
i ignore all the answers??? man you didnt even looked
2021-01-24 18:11
4 replies
#52 bro
2021-01-24 18:12
3 replies
wtf look underneath it,.... I answered so many times to him?? stop talking dump things dude but i lose the motivation of answering some persons if they just start insulting
2021-01-24 18:13
2 replies
you made no point in your 'responses' he came up with valid argumentsand you just started barking the same old stuff you've been barking all day, there was no proper response
2021-01-24 18:24
1 reply
i made no point in you opinion because i dont agree with you opinion i made some Points you just dont agree to them! *which is completely ok
2021-01-24 18:27
The stream was on a television in a room BEHIND them. It was on because the teams GM was previously watching the G2 vs Astralis match and they didn't turn it off when they went in for their match. There is a five min delay on the stream as well. You can clearly get all the information from RpK's instagram story from yesterday or the day before. There was no cheating, there was a misunderstanding. Even the CEO of Vitality called them and had them turn it off when it was brought to ESIC and their attention. Edit: BEHIND them, in another room entirely I should add.
2021-01-24 22:35
#50
 | 
France Titanro
watching a stream with 4 minutes delay??? And they checked the vocals I told you, not any infos were given to the players or whatever
2021-01-24 17:38
5 replies
#54
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
give me source of 4 minutes delay? and still money is visible, setups are visible and so on
2021-01-24 17:38
1 reply
#64
 | 
France Titanro
check the clip
2021-01-24 17:41
#75
 | 
Europe Baunsator
if there is technical pause for 4 minutes they can get perfect info about oponents money or weapons
2021-01-24 17:43
2 replies
#81
 | 
France Titanro
there weren't any technical pause + have you read what I wrote about the vocals?
2021-01-24 17:47
1 reply
#93
 | 
Europe Baunsator
there was a lot of technical puases in this tournament, what vocals? there is some random guy behind them who is not on teamspeak
2021-01-24 17:53
they players didnt even watch that wtf there were just some guys in the back
2021-01-24 17:39
13 replies
#60
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
"they didnt even watched it" i didnt knew you were in there
2021-01-24 17:40
12 replies
maybe read the statement first great to see big fans calling out for cheating, while they were the only ones who disagreed a gentlemen agreement in pgl krakow not using the bug haha
2021-01-24 17:43
11 replies
#77
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
maybe use your brain bro... since when are statements always the truth?? they dont want that anybody overreacts because it would damage their image! so they say it was nothing... they have no proof. No side has any proof... so you just know they cheated what should be banned
2021-01-24 17:44
10 replies
so you admit you have no proof that they stream sniped a delayed stream? "they have no proof" they have the proof you idiot idk you're full of bullshit "bro"
2021-01-24 17:48
9 replies
#88
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
i never had proof but you have no proof that says the difference but still have the opinion that they didnt they have absolutely no proof you cant have proof of it if the players just saw the setups the enemy was using and could avoid them it is impossible to prove it
2021-01-24 17:50
8 replies
esic has all the footages bro, not just face cameras, but also cameras from an angle, where u see whats behind the pc monitors also comms ofc, they clearly see when someone cheats dude why so butthurt about vitality? you only saw the back room lobby, watching the stream, not the players..
2021-01-24 17:59
Didnt know you jermans were 1iq. What you are saying is that we should sent you to a prison for a murder because You got no proof that you did not commit the murder.
2021-01-24 22:02
6 replies
no i havent said that if we think that i am a murder yeah send me to prison until i am proofen innocent!! but if nothing happend dont send me to prison! so ban Vitality until Proof is visible to everybody out there.. not just a statement but a real proof i think a real proof aint possible so just ban them for half a year
2021-01-24 22:05
5 replies
Are you like 10? Thats not how law works lmao.
2021-01-24 22:23
4 replies
Dude it is!! If the police things you might have murdered somone then you go to prison until a judge decided
2021-01-24 22:28
3 replies
”Innocent until proven guilty” Go bak2skol
2021-01-24 22:53
2 replies
It is proven that they broke rules so they are not innocent!
2021-01-24 22:56
1 reply
It is not like esic said.
2021-01-24 23:21
The TV is in the lobby of the Vitality facility so other guys can watch the Stream. They just didnt place it well
2021-01-24 17:44
There's like 12 people in that room and no one noticed the giant TV playing the game, how can you be sure that no one watched the stream?
2021-01-24 17:57
#3
 | 
France Kaaai
They haven't watched the stream, read the god damn esic statement
2021-01-24 17:29
1 reply
+1
2021-01-24 17:30
cry
2021-01-24 17:30
#7
 | 
France Insidium
Admins literally checked the cam footage and they said that there was no stream sniping.
2021-01-24 17:30
6 replies
#15
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
thats bullshit why should they then watch the stream?? just pay some money and the admins say there was no stream sniping
2021-01-24 17:31
5 replies
Pay some money and admin let aimbot on pc.
2021-01-24 17:33
4 replies
#27
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
but VAC doesnt
2021-01-24 17:33
3 replies
Imagine vac being useful 😂
2021-01-24 17:36
2 replies
#42
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
iamgine cheaters getting banned....
2021-01-24 17:37
1 reply
+1
2021-01-24 17:37
no
2021-01-24 17:30
I see 4 french flags above me. But they are correct. ESIC themselves said they found no malicious intent. You're gonna have to find another excuse.
2021-01-24 17:30
21 replies
#33
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
bro.... ESIC found nothing 1. doesnt mean there was nothing 2. if they found nothing why money punish? 3. ypu can pay Esic for saying the found nothing 4. why was the stream on then if the did nothing with it?
2021-01-24 17:35
20 replies
I've actually been through this before: 1) This is assuming guilt, which is an obvious sign of your bias. Enough said. 2) They found no malicious intent behind the stream being open. That isn't nothing, it's still breaking the rules and having the stream open, but it is not cheating. 3) This is a conspiracy. 4) As the ESIC themselves stated, the management of Vitality had turned on the stream (presumably for staff to view) within scope of the players themselves, thereby breaking the rules. I'd like to make it clear that I do not support Vitality's actions, I support the ESIC's response in the given circumstances, and I believe their judgement and resultant punishment to be fair and just.
2021-01-24 17:38
19 replies
#59
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
it is in the rules that the stream is not allowed to watch! and when they still have it open so that the players have the ability to see it. it is againmst the rules so should be punished
2021-01-24 17:40
18 replies
It was punished, what are you talking about? The ESIC punished the management, which they found to be responsible for the stream being open. Since they found no malicious use of the stream content in the audio and VOD of the players, they received no punishment, as the offense is unrelated to them.
2021-01-24 17:41
17 replies
#68
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
10k is nothing they laugh about 10k
2021-01-24 17:42
1 reply
For what is essentially an accidental breakage of the rules, which ESIC determined had no effect on the games where the breakages took place, 10k is fair.
2021-01-24 17:43
#70
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
they found nothing but this is no proof! They broke rules and should be banned!
2021-01-24 17:42
14 replies
Clearly you're too biased to understand a rational opinion. They found that the stream being open was a management error, and that it had no bearing on the games where it had been open (hence, they found "no malicious intent" in the audio files). Thus, it makes no sense to ban people who never did anything wrong because people associated with them did. What you're asking for would be the same as banning Skadoodle in the iBP scandal.
2021-01-24 17:44
13 replies
#80
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
"managemant error" management is a part of the team so the team should be banned! There are clear rules and if they dont hold onto these rules everybody could just start using wallhack due to the punishment being a joke!! And where is my opinion not rational?? somone cheated and should be banned! END! I accept that you have another opinion but i dont agree with it
2021-01-24 17:46
12 replies
I maintain my final point. What you're asking for is to ban someone for an offense they are unrelated to the actual committal of, which is the same as banning Skadoodle in the iBP scandal. (This comes through in "management is a part of the team, so the [whole] team should be banned!") Your third paragraph is simply ridiculous, and is an obvious strawman. Your opinion isn't rational because you have made no actual attempt to counter-argue any point, and have simply repeated the same points which I have already given counter-arguments to. To even further that your argument isn't rational, I've already given you the information that tells you there was no cheating found -- rule breaking and cheating are not one in the same. ESIC found that the stream had no bearing on the games where it was open ("no malicious intent"), therefore Vitality gained no advantage from it, therefore there was no cheating taking place.
2021-01-24 17:52
8 replies
#94
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
what i am asking for is to keep the given rules! Because as soon as we start accepting cheating and declaring it as a "mistake" everybody can start doing it! dude i am not the one not accepting a rational opinion.... cheating is not directly rule breaking ok. But rule breaking should be punsihed (10k is a joke) or everybody starts breaking rules because it seems ok
2021-01-24 17:54
7 replies
Once again, you've referred to it as "cheating", which I've already debunked. Again, the breakage of the rules was punished. Your second sentence is a strawman. Your final statement is simply an opinion from someone who is clearly biased. I've given a reason for what you view to be a "joke" punishment at #73.
2021-01-24 17:56
6 replies
and i explained that the so called "proof" is unrealistic because there are things that no side can proof! and besides that 10k is a joke for every rule breaking this opens the door for other teams to abuse it and then pay 10k for easy prize money that is higher than 10k
2021-01-24 17:59
5 replies
Hahahahahaha. First statement is a conspiracy, and again, you're assuming guilt of foul play. This is bias, not rationality. Your second statement is another strawman, as there was no actual benefit vitality gained, ergo there was no "abuse", so 10k was not an abuse fine.
2021-01-24 18:01
4 replies
dude man... you are assuming they are not cheating so you are not very neutral... 10k is nothing absoluetely nothing man they could add 10k and still lough about it! for breaking rules at least 6 figures should be punished! This would be scary for other teams to use these things because the punishement is a real threat for some orgs
2021-01-24 18:03
3 replies
Assuming innocence is what everybody who has a brain does. Claiming it is "not neutral" because you disagree with it doesn't make any sense, as in the vast majority of other cases, the rationality that led to my assumption of innocence is the common practice, and is considered a neutral view. What would make it a non-neutral view is if I assumed innocence for Vitality because they are Vitality, but then didn't apply the same view for other teams. The rest of #110 continues on your assumption that they are cheating, which the ESIC determined they weren't. Your only evidence is speculation on your part, which you deem to have more weight than it does because you're biased.
2021-01-24 18:07
2 replies
Assuming innocence is not the way to go.. #if we would do that our justice system would not work out. Neutral would be saying ok we have the proof of them not communicating directly about it but we have no proof of them using the given info in any way (i explained it is impossible to find) But we know that they did something not allowed and this leads to them getting punished so that others are not starting using this! I understand what you mean when you say we have to give everyone the benifit of a doubt but this just makes the system weak and as i said so often! it opens the door for other teams to abuse it!
2021-01-24 18:11
1 reply
"if we would do that our justice system would not work out." Assuming innocence (i.e. reasonable doubt favors the accused) is literally what the German and many other justice systems do. See a full explanation on this here: law.stackexchange.com/questions/40966/in.. You then move on to give what is inherently not a neutral position, as it assumes guilt of the players as you're assuming the players themselves have done something wrong when there is "no proof of them using the ... info in any way". The management was punished for their actions, which were deemed to be of minimal harm (as there was no effect on the games at hand, as determined by ESIC). I myself have explained some additional measures which would prevent what you're suggesting could happen in your final section, but as explained in all of the text prior to this, there is no relevance of that to this case, as this is not an abuse case, as per the ESIC.
2021-01-24 18:32
This is basically saying that we should arrest all Americans if the president commits a crime. I mean, we're all a part of the same country right? You're a fucking inbred clodpole. Vitality got punished. The players have no reason to be punished if they broke no rules. Team broke rules = 10k fine Players did nothing wrong = players don't get banned and there livelihood taken away from them. It's pretty straight forward and common sense.
2021-01-24 22:47
2 replies
You are dump man everyone should be judged for his actions not from others! A presindent and citizens are not comparable Bit if one in a company does sth at his job the company gets punished! Vitality is a company so ...
2021-01-24 22:49
1 reply
If one person does shit in a company, the whole company doesn't get punished you braindead moron. That's why people get fired. Vitality broke the rules, so Vitality was punished. 10k The players only REPRESENT Vitality. They do not own it, run it, own shares of it at all. So why punish people who have no control over the situation? Players DO NOT need to be punished because of the actions of an Org.
2021-01-24 22:57
ESIC confirmed they didnt watch the stream,retard.
2021-01-24 17:30
9 replies
#19
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
give esic some money and they say what you want retard!
2021-01-24 17:32
8 replies
nt corruption is illegal
2021-01-24 17:33
6 replies
#28
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
cheating is also illegal? what dou you mean
2021-01-24 17:34
5 replies
if its illegal its not possible to be done
2021-01-24 17:34
4 replies
#35
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
you are kidding me? corruption is possible but illeagel.... smoking weed is illeagal but possible i have more examples
2021-01-24 17:35
3 replies
if its illegal its not possible, nt baiter
2021-01-24 17:36
2 replies
#39
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
... why do i even talk to you man,.... nice bait
2021-01-24 17:36
1 reply
thanks bro but unfortunately im not baiting
2021-01-24 17:38
#30
 | 
France Insidium
You probably believe the earth is flat, give nasa some money and they say what you want retard!
2021-01-24 17:34
#13
 | 
United Kingdom Multiplism
Why did syrsoN not have his camera on when BIG won those tourneys last year? You don't know if he is cheating BUT, he does not have his camera on, and should not be punished for 10k that's nothing! syrsoN should be banned for a half a year at least! Or syrsoN will continue cheating. As good of an AWPer syrsoN is, cheating should not be tolerated or everybody can start having no camera!
2021-01-24 17:31
2 replies
#18
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
At the miod of the year were several players that did not have the cam on! And big also won as he was on lan with cam so your point is useless
2021-01-24 17:32
1 reply
#29
 | 
United Kingdom Multiplism
It was a silly fib my young-one. I didn't want to make a point, but you fell for the trap.
2021-01-24 17:34
at least they have to be disqualified
2021-01-24 17:31
1 reply
#21
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
agree
2021-01-24 17:32
pretty stupid for german hltv user?
2021-01-24 17:32
2 replies
#22
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
flair checks out
2021-01-24 17:32
1 reply
most germans smart, but exceptions prove the rule
2021-01-24 17:33
It was fair punishment quit crying, if they do it again then more severe penalty given...
2021-01-24 17:34
3 replies
#41
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
10k fair punishement?? dude 10k is nothing absolutely nothing!
2021-01-24 17:37
1 reply
its what they handed out for first time, but yes should be $30k really...
2021-01-24 17:37
This is not the first time they have had a stream running.
2021-01-24 17:37
the players didnt watch only the stuff man chill
2021-01-24 17:37
2 replies
#86
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
you mean the staff that could tell them everything??? understand and just because ESIC says it doesnt mean that it is true!
2021-01-24 17:49
1 reply
You are a man of justice JOIN (Justice League)
2021-01-24 17:52
i agree
2021-01-24 17:38
esasiest bait of your life jermen))))
2021-01-24 17:39
1 reply
+1 everybody fell for it lmao
2021-01-24 22:52
banned lul
2021-01-24 17:39
no
2021-01-24 17:40
players playing with streams on, disgustang
2021-01-24 17:42
#69
 | 
France just_focus
It's the online era. Everyone can look at the stream if they really want to. If you're cheating you're not putting the fucking screen behind you are you? I agree that it's retarded to put the stream on player cams but let's not pretend you couldn't easily stream snipe in 2020... ESIC half asses the whole situation, should've been very strict and have zero tolerance since the very start of quarantine (players looking at phones etc). Online cs is a joke compared to LAN.
2021-01-24 17:42
8 replies
#83
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
online is not a excuse for cheating
2021-01-24 17:48
7 replies
#87
 | 
France just_focus
suspicion of cheating =/= cheating and they were even cleared and deemed innocent by ESIC after investigation, as written in the article
2021-01-24 17:49
6 replies
#89
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
they had the stream on i dont have no sispicion! It is clear that they had the stream on! Having the stream on is not allowed! So they should be punished! Or every team can start doing it if they see it does not get punished!
2021-01-24 17:51
5 replies
#95
 | 
France just_focus
I agree about punishment for having the stream on, I'm just saying that they aren't cheaters since they're proven innocent by the ESIC (which checked comms and camera), and you're calling them cheaters which is false info.
2021-01-24 17:55
4 replies
#99
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
checking comms and cameras ok. But what if a they were able to see the screen (coach for example) and understood the setup so they were able to avoid the strats of the enemy! ESIC tryed to proof them innocent but some thing are impossible to proof! and when we say "unguilty until prooven" then we open something for cheaters to abuse
2021-01-24 17:57
3 replies
Like I said in my initial comment, the ESIC (and TOs) should've handled the online era with an iron fist since the start of the online era so as to leave no room for breach of competitive integrity. Unfortunately I think there are ways to cheat by stream sniping in online cs which can never be covered and monitored fully. Online CS is just shit.
2021-01-24 18:02
2 replies
yeah and a joke punish from 10k opens the door for other abuseres
2021-01-24 18:03
1 reply
hltv.org/news/30754/mibr-fined-by-flashp.. they chose to be lax since the start, it's their choice. Now they are forced to handle bitch weak punishments because they didn't commit to harsher ones first. It would be unfair otherwise. I assume flashpoint followed the ESIC's advice since the punishment is the same for the same fault
2021-01-24 18:07
#79
 | 
Estonia paul_chris
Innocent until proven otherwise. Too much salt makes you biased.
2021-01-24 17:46
2 replies
#82
k1to | 
Germany BadBro
it is proven that the stream was on???' Proof is there the punishment is just a joke!
2021-01-24 17:48
1 reply
#92
 | 
Estonia paul_chris
Irrelevant. ESIC found no evidence.
2021-01-24 17:53
Big fan saying that lmao
2021-01-24 17:55
1 reply
Reply needs to have actual content
2021-01-24 18:11
#125
 | 
Bulgaria peswaka
The stream is 5 minutes behind then the actual game so dont be crying that much
2021-01-24 18:41
If anything, BIG cheats more than Vitality. How can you go from bottom to top team in an online era ?
2021-01-24 22:32
Yeah
2021-01-24 22:50
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