Thread has been deleted
Last comment
Why do you choose one over the other. Why not just choose both and pick out things form these ideologies that would benefit the people as a whole instead of going at each other's throats?
9 replies
No you didn’t kkkkkk
8/8
XD
This man speaks the true true. I like stricter immigration laws from the right wing, but I also like a lot of socialist policies because I think the strong should take care of the weak in a functional society. Can't have people living on the streets eating out garbage cans.
22 replies
1 reply
+1
Why stricter immigration laws?
You say socialist policies to take care of the weak... so a stupid lazy should have a better life than someone who is from let's say africa, just because he is born within your countries boundaries?
10 replies
HypoCritical hit
No, when I say socialist policies for the weak I do mean worldwide. I think we have amassed enough resources to take care of people on a global scale.
Why stricter immigration laws is simply a matter of statistics. There is a percentage of native Dutch that don't want to work and will never work, I don't like it but I have to accept it. I'd rather drop those people on an island and have them fend for themselves tbh. The percentage of people that don't want to work among native Dutch is very low though especially when compared to immigrants from the middle-east and African countries. Some 90% of Somalians are on welfare for example.
The will and capacity to work is not the only reason I want stricter immigration laws however. Going by percentages again some 2/3rds of immigrants with a Muslim-background have anti-Western tendencies. About 25% think violence to defend the prophet is justified. Now if I am holding a party at my house and a group of 10 guests show up, off which 2/3rds have sentiments against me and of that group 25% thinks harm should befall me I would keep the door closed. Sucks for the one third that harbors no such feelings, but I'm not an idiot, I'm not letting 6/7 people that harbor ill will towards me in my house.
To keep Western society livable, I would for the same reasons keep the door towards Europe close except for those you can 100% verify harbor no ill will towards Western society.
8 replies
nice try but its not worth here on hltv...
1 reply
It's therapeutic to write your thoughts away ;) .
Fucking racist go live in a immigrant country and u will see how those people are way more friendly and hard working than average Europeans (I lived in Ghana for 2 years)
most immigrants are in welfare cuz they have no work allowance and or can’t speak English (not even to mention Dutch/German/french what ever)
2 replies
I've worked at a work-reintegration project in Almelo where people that were on welfare got reintegrated in the workforce. There was about a 50/50 mix of Turks and people of Dutch/Surinam/other origin. There was a marked difference between the two groups in willingness to work. They used to come in to first work internally until they were ready to be sent out. People that lived here for 20 years or more still couldn't speak the language and hadn't made any effort to integrate into society, didn't put any effort into learning skills that were useful on the jobmarket and they generally stayed unemployable.
Even 2nd/3rd generation that went to school here and knew the language somewhat had a terrible attitude towards getting work and nearly all of them stayed within their clique, stayed on welfare or got kicked out of the welfare-program and eventually ended up in jail.
The first duty of people that come into this country should be to learn to speak Dutch so that they can follow courses etc. Most people won't.
There's a difference between groups though, because suryoye, Armenian, Christian Iraqi's and Iranians that fled because they were prosecuted in Islamic world are usually well integrated and faring well on the job market. Those people are now getting threatened again because we are bringing in the people that were oppressing them in the first place.
1. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to work. I believe those people are free to not contribute to society because they are forced to live in this society.
2. Some 90% of Somalians? Like Somalians that don't want to work? Or like 90% of the 1% that doesn't want to work? And don't know the numbers for Netherlands but yes in Belgium there is a 3x as high unemployment rate for people outside of the EU, however this number does not indicate that these people don't want to work, it just states that less of them have a job.
3. 2/3rds of immigrants with a Muslim-background have anti-Western tendencies??? Where you get this? Same for the 25% justifying the violence.
From #164 I can see your work might have influenced your views, what is understandable. You had to deal with the bad ones, and thinking like this causes more segregation. If I, as a Belgian, ever went to Congo I would not like that they judged me for something Leopold I once did there, because I am nothing like him, just as most immigrants are nothing like the one you worked with.
2 replies
I've played football against bad ones, went to school with bad ones(though most dropped out at a certain point), seen girls get molested at swimming pools by bad ones etc. etc. Surprisingly little good ones to find. There were those that acted normal against you in class but turned into cunts when they got in the schoolyard with their friends, but that's about it.
NOP Research: 68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam;
MacDonald Laurier Institute: 62% of Muslims want Sharia in Canada (15% say make it mandatory)
ICM Poll: 40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
WZB Berlin Social Science Center: 65% of Muslims in Europe say Sharia is more important than the law of the country they live in.
I have a bunch of those saved. The 66% with anti-Western sentiment and the 25% justifying the violence where in articles straight after that French teacher got beheaded. I'll look further for those. But I've got a shit-ton of opinion polls, probes and the likes to throw around where it comes to Islam.
volkskrant.nl/mensen/helft-marokkanen-pl..
There's also that, stating that more than half of Maroccan boys had dealing with the police before they turned 23. Which has gotten worse.
About 25% of Dutch voters lean towards parties like PVV, FvD whose main talking points are immigration. While we've got a shitton of other problems in our country people want this fixed first.
1 reply
I'm at uni and around 50% of my class is not originaly from Belgium, and all of them are good people, even outside of class. The molesting part could be, however living in a student city most guys who abuse a girls intoxicated state are guys who are part of a Belgium version of a frat house, these are mostly rich white individuals. Does that make all rich white rapists?
NOP research: can't find the source so can not speak on it.
MacDonald Laurier Institute: The 62% said they wanted some implication of Sharia Law, this can be something as small as having to wear a headscarf if you are muslim. The 15% wish to 'require Muslims to be ruled by Sharia courts'. However there the study also says there is a 3% that is pro Al-Qaeda, so yeah that is bad.
ICM poll: again some sharia law, can't know what they want if it isn't asked.
WZB Berlin: again no mentioning of what laws, this could just be about a niqab being illegal.
The volkskrant one is interessting, because they looked at people born in the Netherlands. However looking at these numbers you have to take into account that muslims have a worse living situation. Being muslim doens't make you steal, being poor does. More % of muslims being poor = more % of muslims stealing.
I can't find the full report on this so I don't know what these crimes are. But from my own experience I can say racial profiling is a thing. I have a full Belgian friend who somehow is a little bit darker than average, and we never let him hold our drugs because somehow it is always him they check first.
25% of the dutch voters lean towards parties like PVV and FvD because it is easier to blame a minority for your problems and can only read the headlines from articles.
cant believe in a country as rich as the US we have a minimum wage in many places that is completley unliveable, 15k before taxes. And at the same time we have people like bezos, musk, gates worth up to 200 billion dollars. Capitalism is extremely flawed.
5 replies
that’s why everyone should get tax cuts
Median income in the US is 6th highest in the world. People working at minimum wage almost always move up relatively quickly. The individual stories of people staying at minimum wage for years are just that, individual stories. Statistically the US is doing more than fine. Also, 15k before taxes? If you’re working at federal minimum wage for 40 hr weeks you’re making more than that, and if you’re in that situation, you should be willing to work more than 40 hr weeks.
2 replies
Search up the yearly minimum wage, and keep in mind some companies (especially ones run by billionaires) pay bellow minimum wage in terrible working conditions
1 reply
There is no yearly minimum wage. The federal minimum wage currently is 7.25$. States with a particularly high cost of living tend to have theirs be significantly higher than that. Please reference an actual company because your seemingly intentional vagueness does not support your claim that the US has a fundamental wealth distribution issue when the US has a median (not average, average ranks 4th) income ranking #6 in the world.
GG you're an intelligent person
You are a sovereignist
giant +1
i cant pick one side because both have just retarded policies
positive politics thread?
Absolutely fucking boring, if you are going to make a thread about politics make sure people will get angry at each other
5 replies
name checks out
+1 kkkkkkk
20 replies
1 reply
believe in what you believe in and talk about it, except when i think your beliefs are stupid))
17 replies
16 replies
Maybe not to you, but they are valid beliefs and opinions
15 replies
14 replies
Who are you to decide who should validate what?
13 replies
12 replies
I don't care what I am or what you are. None of us have any right to disvalue any opinion.
That's the whole thing of a opinion, they aren't wrong (mostly).
11 replies
10 replies
I'm no jew. I might not agree with them and I might hate them, but that does not give me the right to take away their opinion.
9 replies
8 replies
And I repeat again, who are you to do that, just because you disagree?
7 replies
6 replies
Aren't those all individuals?
5 replies
4 replies
Are CONSIDERED acceptable. Not what is and isn't acceptable.
3 replies
2 replies
Precisely why you can't say "If your beliefs revolve around certain people being subhuman scum then I dont believe those are legitimate beliefs."
There is no objective morality.
1 reply
Right wing = freedom to negotiate and pursue your objectives
Left wing: pls politicians tax the rich and give me free stuff
9 replies
1 reply
but without being a leech
1 reply
3 replies
imagine paying taxes so someone can get free stuff
2 replies
1 reply
i am focused on the smallest minority in the world: the individual
Because the side’s policies are ass
6 replies
3 replies
No
2 replies
1 reply
I vote independent
the left are already good enough, right wingers are racist and only cares about themself
8 replies
and you are twelve and only care about your new Lego set
7 replies
Flag and flair checks out. Enjoy 100 years of democrats in office.
Texas blue by 2024
6 replies
Delusional lego loving twelve yr old... what are they teaching y’all in dk?
5 replies
I agree
8 replies
these guys who call everyone a sheep are mostly 10iqlers.... lel
u dont think like me, u are a brainwashed sheep. nice discussion bro
7 replies
Mate. What you were saying applies to every political view.
Variant 1:
u dont think like me, u are a brainwashed sheep. nice discussion bro
Variant 2:
u dont think like me, u are a brainwashed rightist. nice discussion bro
Variant 3:
u dont think like me, u are a brainwashed leftist. nice discussion bro
6 replies
ok then tell me one good thing about righwing politics
5 replies
Where did I say that any political spectre would be good???? Where??
I dislike the left as much as I dislike the right. Polarisation is not the solution.
4 replies
to destroy rightism is a good solution for many stupid problems
3 replies
That's simply not true. To maintain a centre position is the only way to go.
Please. Are you german? What happened the last time when people went full pro one side? One of the most evil things to mankind. Polarisation has to stop. It doesn't matter on what side you're on but just going full hardcore mode on one side is a step towards the wrong direction and an extremist ideology itself. You're talking about destroying one side.
Back then before the 2nd World War occurred and way before the NS gained its power they firstly had do fully cut off their resistance slowly. They had - as you quoted - to destroy one side completely first. Germany back at its time before the NS party gained its power was not even fully NS, there had been other parties opposing the NS and they had a good amount of supporters. A lot of people wanted the NS to stop because they saw their anti-constitutional and extremist tendencies but they had been either executed or silenced, jailed or received fees. The NS did not gain its power democraticly. They occupied it by introducing new laws, by using propganada (the NS were one of the first to use the TV as a propaganda machine) and by just destroying all of the opposition. That should never ever happen again.
2 replies
i stop reading at , this is simply, not true
cant discuss with such peoples, bye
1 reply
It's important to read it. Please look at the past and what happened. How can you be this ignorant.
I'm not saying the right is the way to go. The left is not the way to go either. Because politics should never be FULLY COMMITED ON ANY side. Call the sides Blue and Yellow or X and Y. Politics need to be in the centre or everything might turn out really bad. Can't you see around you? Have you seen the last 10 years? It's getting more and more worse.
4 replies
there’s another saying that “if you’re a conservative when you’re young, you have no heart. if you’re a liberal when you’re old, you have no brain”
Name checks out. I met a group of Swedish scouts once. Biggest group of pansies I’ve ever seen. Half their patches had rainbows on them and every single one was either 400 lbs of 20 lbs.
1 reply
who car?
+1
politics was literally created to divide. look back to ancient greece or ancient rome.
11 replies
i agree
so u think a world without politics and rules would be better?
so gangs made the rules like in mexico or brazil would be better?or groups like isis?
ok
9 replies
no, ofc not, but if u look at modern politics, especially in the us, this is literally whats happening, people cancelling eachother out for literally nothing, trump, biden, couldnt care less about any of them, they all do the bidding for the same group of people, and this shit is spreading everywhere now.
just take a look at politics and the media. they act together to cause a more and more bigger divide to humanity. i dunno but i think if we put 10 kids in politics we gonna achieve more in 1 week than they did in 10 years.
7 replies
so u are one of these kids who think politic is so evil and act together with the media to fuck the world, and normally politics is so easy, no problem to make everybody happy and bring all interests together
than i just can one thing to u , grow up...
6 replies
im not saying its evil, its just part of the game, u have left and right and all other parties are useless never given a chance. cuz they divide to much they rather fight and argue against eachother than to actually think for the overall best solution themselves.
so thats how we come to the way that the left votes the left mainly to avoid the right and the right votes the right mainly to avoid the left, the politics of both parties dont matter at all anymore.
5 replies
maybe in italy, not here in germany, we hav coalitions goverment since over 30 years, and many different too
the world is more than little italy my friend
4 replies
it'S the same everywhere, and theres a reason for that. u have 2 main parties the others are just there to take away the votes from ppl who dont want no part of any of this left vs right mongoloid caveman shit.
3 replies
like i tellu before thats not true
before 2000 it was
a worker party and the liberals
than cdu in germany a cristian party
after that is was spd a workparty with the greens
after that the cdu and the spd
than cdu and fdp a liberal party
now again cdu and spd
and the next will be cdu and the greens
or
spd, a leftwing party,and the greens
so its never the same and change alot
and yes cdu is often in the goverment because people think they made a good job, thats why merkel are 16 yers cancelor and could go even longer when she wants...
2 replies
+1
and in the Netherlands, we have 20 parties to vote on and then 4 parties to lead
You actually proved your whole statement wrong with your last sentence.
It's not about choosing. If you're doing this only by choice and not rationally, you're doing it wrong.
Left wing.
If you have 2 wings then you can fly
That's all I'm saying
Because mainly I have to. There's not that many parties in politics that are in the "middle", because of one another. There's no middle wing. If you're with leftist and you try to argue against them in what I assume they're wrong at, they just attack me calling me racist etc. Same with the other side - arguing with rightists turns me to be a leftist at least in their eyes.
But since I have to choose I more rather take the some-what rightist side. Cause the full leftists are just so retarded and I respect nationalism unlike them. They don't have any reason in their politics. They just do it because it's morally right and they think that for example Finland could save the whole world's immigrants. And yet I go some specific areas in my home town and it is full of kids of drug addicts and alcoholics that really require help and we don't do anything for them since we don't have money for that. Our own people suffer and they just try to help other countries' citizens. I just don't get it.
8 replies
7 replies
Because of what I think of Islam as a religion
6 replies
Well coming from a leftist perspective I don't think it's fair to single out Islam as different from any other religion. There are complicated factors that go into people committing violence. For example a very common ISIS recruitment tactic was to find sexually frustrated men and tell them that the glory of an Islamic state would guarantee them women. That's more routed in toxic masculinity than the religion itself. You could make an argument that Islam radicalizes people to a certain extent which I would agree with but I think that's every religion radicalizes people to some extent and there are a majority of Muslim people who aren't extreme in their beliefs at all. Other Religions like Mormons or Jehova's Witnesses are more cult like and are very centralized controlling their members. I don't really see that with Islam. I personally had negative views towards Islam but honestly if most who are practicing it are not hurting anyone I don't see why someone should get worked up about it.
5 replies
But it is fair because of a few very big reasons that are quite clear in our society.
First thing is the position of women. Can you argue against that? Islam is a religion where women aren't equal with men.
Scarier part is that muslims take their religion very seriously unlike christians and the fact that muslims can't stand criticism towards their religion makes it a very scary religion indeed. Cause it's always good if something can't be critized.
This doesn't have anything to do with racism though. I don't judge people for what they are - they are the production of their own culture. I judge them only for the actions they take and the things they've done. But the definite fact that separates Islam from other religions is the fact that they are unable to stand critizism towards their religion and the actions that they take for it is much more dangerous than in other religions.
4 replies
I think for the first question it depends on who practices the religion. A lot of Muslim people believe in equal rights for men and women and while their social roles might differ this is the case for every western religion that exists. A lot of Christians believe it's ok to discriminate between men and women because of what the bible says. Also if you believe men and women are equal you wouldn't choose to believe in a religion where they're treated differently so it has nothing to do with the religion and everything to do with the individual justifying their sexism.
I don't think Muslims take their religion more serious at all I mean just look at the US where arguably Christians are the most extreme religious group with 27% of evangelicals believing in Qanon.
These believes can be rooted in racism but it's not fair to anyone who's anti Islam to assume they just don't like brown people.
I don't think Islam is more resistant to criticism than other Religions. If there is something a Muslim believes that is harmful to them or society then you can point that out to them. Just like if a Christian believes that the gays should all be jailed and have their genitals cut off (which actually happened in the 50's) you can point that out to them but I wouldn't say those things are tenants of their Religion. What Christians have in common is that Jesus is the lord and savior while Muslims believe in the 5 pillars of Islam none of which are really harmful.
2 replies
Still, muslims are the ones taking much heavier actions when they're criticized about the religion. Of course there's Christians who are more "religious" than some muslims. That still doesn't change facts. But that's why I don't judge people only for their religion. I'm not anti Islam, I've had muslim friends and I think they've been very nice and we've just separated due to time and moving. I just want us to have more caution towards the people who we take in my country - especially in the case of people coming from the 3rd world Islamic countries. Because they aren't taught the basic principles of the western countries - unlike persons who have lived their whole lives here in Finland. They should know these things and they are the people I'm not worried of.
1 reply
From the studies I've seen immigrants from Muslim majority countries have a lower crime rate than the native population with similar economic status. A really complicated topic though and I suggest to check out the wiki on this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_cr..
There is a well known hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Women are the twin halves of men.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 204; al-Tirmidhi, 105, from the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah. Also narrated by al-Daarimi, 764, from the hadeeth of Anas.
Men and women generally are equal, but both have different roles to fulfil and in some situations one is superior over the other, such as divorce where the woman gets the kids unless the judge rules otherwise.
Muslims take their religion seriously is a good thing, how can one be a Christian if he doesn’t take his religion seriously? Would a priest consider a Christian that doesn’t go to church, doesn’t pray or repent, have sex outside of marriage and worship idols a Christian?
Criticism of Islam is a complex topic, criticising Islam doesn’t lead to good, the same as Christianity or Judaism. How could anyone stand unjust criticism? If you slander someone’s beliefs, they will get upset, regardless of whether or not they are a Muslim.
Cause people are retarded the whole party system is p dumb
7 replies
Socialism works pretty well in Sweden and even in Germany, but it works just partly with combination of Capitalism.
the thing which is not working is Communism. trashest ideology, even China became superpower when they got rid of this shit in economy. now they have controlled Capitalism
6 replies
5 replies
check taxes in Sweden and you will understand what i'm talking about also check their social system and compare it for example to Hong Kong (for better contrast)
btw you are russian fake flagger, why you even care?
4 replies
3 replies
high taxes with combination of strong social system = socialism
2 replies
Yeah that is called centrism and is the most logical rational position which ofc is hated the most by braindead society.
2 replies
Yes like we can have stricter immigration, while also being progressive towards minority’s or immigrants who come to the country legally. We can have independent companies, with a little bit of government over site, to prevent things like facebook banning Australian news from happening again.
+1
you are absolutely right, Centrist position is the best
centrist liberalism is the best
wrong thread
I choose up wing
Right wing > left wing because Messi > Ronaldo
Actually Im kinda a centrist, but lefies and righties say, that its not right and I have to choose it.
Only in US is it so prominent to follow one or the other political side. The country is literally devided into two oppositions fighting one another.
In the rest of the world its The citizens vs The government.
In US its Citizens vs Citizens with almost no politicians in sight.
Here in the sane part of world people blame government for everything. In US you blame the people following opposition. like wut?
Most people are in fact like that, but they have the "extreme" part of the opposite ideology so much that they'd rather "side" with the ones they don't have as big of a problem with.
For example, I absolutely despise political correctness, social justice, cancel culture, lgbtqrtard and so on from the left-wing, and because of that i usually call myself rightist. But the truth is that I am economically more left leaning. Not extreme, more like a social democrat. And politically i am also more left leaning tbh, it is only the cultural side where i'm extremely right and that is the heaviest because that's where all conversation is focused on these days
DEEZ NUTS XDDDD
duality of leftists, one of the main reasons.
banning leftist page: omg, its authority, where is the freedom of speech?
banning right(ist?) page: deserved, use freedom of speech somewhere else
1 reply
because modern left in europe is peaceful and mostly good
and right mostly hateful and not good
u can discuss about to kill a massmurder
but not about a helping guy
Simple-minded people think that when they are in a certain set of an ideology they should accept everything they say and oppose any other ideology.
2 replies
same shit? what are you talking about? politics have HUGEST influence on humanity. especially politics in Europe and North America
1 reply
I am definitely heavily on the left because i think that people should have equal opportunities in life regardless of their skin color or what family they were born into. I also firmly believe in democratizing the workplace. eg. Worker works at a company. The worker produces 100 euros of value. The boss takes that 100 euros of value and pays the worker 25 euros. The worker doesn't get any say in how the funds get distributed, and the boss gets a pretty penny even after externalities are taken care of even though the worker actually produced all the value, So what's the solution? You replace the boss with workers, called a worker cooperative. A company that every single person working there collectively owns. You cut out the parasitic middleman between the workers and their fair share, and you get much better representation for those worker's interests. Essentially democratizing the place where a human adult spends the largest slice of their life. The workplace.
Bet value
Amount of money to be placed
Winning
Odds total ratio
-
