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HUNDEN
Other JimC 
esic.gg/open_investigation/alleged-compl.. HUNDEN MATTER UPDATED ON 19 SEPTEMBER I wonder what was updated regarding the situation on 19 September.. I wonder ...
2021-09-20 14:42
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#1
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Norway Norvegiya2k
cya heroic
2021-09-20 14:43
3 replies
I forgot to mentioned that it was mentioned that they were gonna finalize their position on 10 September as well.
2021-09-20 14:45
2 replies
ESIC is a joke
2021-09-20 16:18
1 reply
+1
2021-09-20 16:20
#2
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Italy I_like_csgo
But what was the update, it says that all updates will be issued there
2021-09-20 14:45
7 replies
Ye, am trying to find it. Reading through the transparent initiative.
2021-09-20 14:45
These two updates: "ESIC Undergoing Assessment of Information Provided - 06/09/2021" "ESIC Undertaking Further Investigation - 10/09/2021" Zero details in both.
2021-09-20 14:46
5 replies
Yes, but it says the update occurred in 19 September and also 10 September as well which I find pretty odd.
2021-09-20 14:47
2 replies
Might be they just changed a wording or something
2021-09-20 14:50
1 reply
I think they probably will disclose everything once the finalization process is complete.
2021-09-20 14:58
Well those were the information, they won't ever give us all the material and stuff. I'm just saying that it says updated yesterday but the page hasn't changed from last time I visited it, there is nothing new
2021-09-20 14:48
1 reply
ah, well I guess they must've edited the secret files then or something
2021-09-20 14:50
finally. but, if heroic players will get caught for cheating, everyone else should too
2021-09-20 14:46
14 replies
+1
2021-09-20 14:46
The problem is the only reason why Heroic players if they indeed cheated are able to get caught is first that they had problems with Hunden which resulted in him turning sour against them, and that there is evidence to back his claims up. I doubt there is enough evidence for the other players that were indeed complicit regarding the coaching bug situation.
2021-09-20 14:47
12 replies
Probably yeah, unless their coaches/other staff turn against them too. Just wondering if it's fair to punish Heroic players - even though they cheated - if dozens of other players avoid punishment for exact same thing :/
2021-09-20 14:49
11 replies
#14
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Finland byrbyl
Nice philosophic thinking - I agree
2021-09-20 14:50
I think it's fair. I don't want to sound too harsh towards you, but your argument seems to me is like: A mafia boss got caught, I don't think he should be punished because the other Mafia people weren't caught and only this specific mafia group was caught. Correct me if I am wrong.
2021-09-20 14:51
5 replies
But catching mafia groups is reasonably possible. Catching people who knowingly abused the coach bug, apart from the coaches who were recorded on demos, is pretty much impossible unless someone rats them out.
2021-09-20 14:53
4 replies
Yes, but the argument he was making was that it isn't fair because other people are getting away with the same crime. Just because other people are getting away with the same crime, doesn't mean we don't punish the players that do get caught no?
2021-09-20 14:55
3 replies
But other things are more catchable, there's big practical difference. I'd be happier if all teams with coach abusers were punished even if it can't be proven they cheated, because the players would have to be unreasonably stupid to not notice anything suspicious in some cases.
2021-09-20 14:59
2 replies
Yes, but like I said, if there was adequate evidence to convict the Heroic players.
2021-09-20 15:00
1 reply
there probably is if their coach is coming clean
2021-09-20 16:12
What a braindead argument!! "If I kill someone, I shouldn't be punished cz some killer is not punished."
2021-09-20 16:01
2 replies
doesn't really compare to that, everyone doesn't know everyone is a murderer. it's fairly obvious that the players knew their coaches were cheating, until now all the coaches just have chosen to protect the players.
2021-09-20 16:17
the point is, if the heroic lineup are the only players to get punished, they look like scapegoats
2021-09-20 16:18
They have concrete sources and data on Heroic. For other teams, it is just speculation and hearsay. A commision cannot come up with a verdict based on speculation, but tangible proof. It is absolutely fair. If you cannot do the time, do not do the crime.
2021-09-20 16:28
#12
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Finland byrbyl
#FREEnikoFROMDANISHJAIL
2021-09-20 14:49
1 reply
Flair checks out
2021-09-20 15:07
what timezone they even use?
2021-09-20 14:54
1 reply
That's a really good question, I've no idea.
2021-09-20 14:55
If the Heroic players get banned, then it's the most stupid decision ever. I hate Heroic, but banning them would be intentionally putting blinders regarding the other teams and players who are -OF COURSE- involved in this shit too. 37 coaches, even if there is like what, on average 3 players of each team who know about this -btw thats stupid, when your coach says b clear go knife out, EVERY player know they got some external info- thats like 100+ players banned, with big names too (Danish CS with ruggah, FaZe, Team Heretics , so Maka and Lucky, 9z, dead, so FalleN and stuff,Gambit with F1_N, starix with NAVI, and SO ON)
2021-09-20 15:12
7 replies
By your logic, we shouldn't arrest people when we have evidence that they committed a crime, because there are other people that get away with it? EDIT: It's absolutely sad knowing that other players are getting away with it, but if the evidence is sufficient to convict the Heroic players in being complicit with Hunden. I think they should get punished.
2021-09-20 15:33
5 replies
By my logic, we have reasons to believe that, beyond reasonable doubt, players knew about their coach cheating besides Heroic. So it'd be stupid to A. just ban Heroic since it's hypocrisy or B. ban everyone since it's just too much
2021-09-20 15:34
4 replies
There is enough evidence to convict the other players outside of Heroic. (Assuming that we have a sufficient amount of evidence to convict Heroic players.) By your logic, we should ban all the players because you made that assumption. "Assumption" isn't evidence.
2021-09-20 15:45
3 replies
It's bigger than an assumption. even if we do not have evidence that the players have communicated, we have extracts of games that prove that players possessed some sort of external info, or else in no situation ever would they have made these in-game calls and decisions. Kinda like ESIC having 0 evidence of Akuma cheating except some extracts where they looked at the corner of their screens and weird in-game decisions, yet they advised Valve to ban Akuma (for matchfixing, AND cheating iirc).
2021-09-20 15:54
2 replies
Where did they say that they advised Valve to ban Akuma for cheating? They forwarded evidence to Valve on Akuma. hltv.org/news/31895/esic-forwards-eviden..
2021-09-20 16:18
1 reply
Woops, misread. "ESIC has further recommended that until the outcome of a possible investigation by Valve, or if Valve asks them to investigate this ordeal further, ESIC-member tournament organizers shouldn't accept entries from Akuma, or even a roster made up of more than three current Akuma players." not Valve, so yeah, you're right. But that doesn't change my point.
2021-09-20 16:26
#30
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Brazil Zireael11
The thing is there is actual evidence in this case. If you can convince other coaches to come out and point people who knew that they were using it, then it would be possible.
2021-09-20 15:41
#26
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Russia Trueteller
when a pile of documents been on the desk for a while you just shove it off and write statement "case has been updated"
2021-09-20 15:14
5 replies
nt TruthSpeakr
2021-09-20 15:34
4 replies
#31
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Russia Trueteller
it's called bureaucracy
2021-09-20 15:43
3 replies
its called russian bureaucracy alright, french bureaucracy is bad too
2021-09-20 15:50
2 replies
#34
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Russia Trueteller
yeah was just joking but it feels like all countries do that when they get too many papers to read
2021-09-20 15:51
1 reply
yup
2021-09-20 15:51
if it was something serious they would have posted something looks like heroic dodged the bullet
2021-09-20 15:53
1 reply
We'll see given time
2021-09-20 16:19
If you ain't cheating you ain't trying. Most of the best baseball players in the past 30 years got caught with steroids. Lance armstrong best there ever was caught. So many people get caught cheating in major sports but they still take their 100 million dollars with them.
2021-09-20 16:25
I wonder if the results come before or after the major
2021-09-29 20:59
EZ4GOAT HUNDEN
2021-09-29 21:00
Matter Status: Finalisation Wonder who takes Heroic's spot in the major when they're banned and disqualified?
2021-10-08 14:10
ESIC will release a public report relating to the matter at 9:00am CET, Monday 18 October 2021.
2021-10-18 10:32
oh it's out already. fuckkkk
2021-10-18 10:35
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