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"Old NiP had less competition"
smooya | 
Sweden bruhmoment000 
Idk why people are undermining the older teams success. For example I see a lot of people saying that old NiP wouldn't stand a chance against today's teams, that the competition today is way higher so old NiP's dominance wasn't as impressive. Comparing older teams skill to today's teams is just wrong IMO. some of today's players has around 20k hours played. Whereas old NiP had around 3-4k hours played. The meta today that today's teams are playing has been developed for years and was built by older teams. NiP was just in a different time, but that doesn't make NiP's dominance any less impressive.
2021-11-29 18:33
Topics are hidden when running Sport mode.
It's like people comparing Pelé to todays football players and saying that todays football players are more skilled. No shit they are more skilled, the game has been developed for years, the training has developed and improved etc. Doesn't make any sense. Pelé is still one of the greats and so are old NiP.
2021-11-29 18:37
24 replies
+1
2021-11-29 18:38
#20
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Sweden 0sko
+1
2021-11-29 18:44
this + /thread
2021-11-29 18:48
one day people will shit on s1mple because "it was so easy back then, everyone else was a bot" and most people will agree.
2021-11-29 18:52
7 replies
#32
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Brazil Fusk4
+1
2021-11-29 18:54
Yes, and he will be 32 years old and people will compare him to 22 year old players and say "wow, look how bad he is, not even playing in tier 1 anymore"
2021-11-29 18:54
1 reply
they will say the same thing about Zywoo when he's 50. Look at the noob time for him to move to tier two.
2021-11-29 19:12
#36
DG | 
Spain 1sleep23
and it will be the truth
2021-11-29 19:02
2 replies
But it's not? Is it easy today to be a top player at the game right now? no, so why would that be true 10 years from now?
2021-11-29 19:34
1 reply
same thing was said 8 years ago
2021-11-29 23:00
#40
ptr | 
Albania WokeUp
but b1t will still be the best aimer
2021-11-29 19:04
#50
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Finland Abecsgo
Dont say Pele More like Wayne Gretzky when people compare his highlights to nowadays hockey
2021-11-29 19:08
4 replies
Love watching old greats even people today say Larry bird would torch the league today if he was in his prime. One game he said I'm going to shoot left handed, scored his first 27 points that way. youtube.com/watch?v=hcXv0JtzNQA
2021-11-29 19:32
I mean Gretzky was never flashy anyway, so his highlights are less impressive than his actual statistics. Gretzky would be just as good today as he was then, since his entire reason for being good was that he played the game non-stop his whole life, so he pretty much had unrivaled experience by the time he was a pro.
2021-11-29 22:59
2 replies
#112
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Finland Abecsgo
yes but I guess you got my point, I mean like Gretzky made all points on "old" days of hockey when one game might have +10 goals cuz goalies were bad and Gear was bad... I hate when people compare Gretzky example to McDavid
2021-11-29 23:06
1 reply
#132
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United States Herabitix
+1 comparing two different eras of something is just dumb imo
2021-11-30 02:40
that's true, for example fnatic's and nip's major titles are still major titles, even tho they are old af but 87-0 streak and other very early achievements are indeed impressive but not that big argument imo. nip were grinding beta version of cs:go or smth, and they stepped into the game as a set team with a lot of things prepared, ofc it wasn't hard to farm first teams ever
2021-11-29 19:21
honestly i think its the opposite
2021-11-29 20:26
+1
2021-11-29 20:43
get this man a round of applause
2021-11-29 22:47
+1
2021-11-29 22:51
+1
2021-11-29 23:11
#123
JW | 
Sweden gNeJS
+1
2021-11-29 23:28
Same shit for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and KD
2021-11-30 02:36
To win so much isn't easy no matter what the competition level were. Cuz one bad day is enough to lose. And even that csgo was a new game... The most players were 1.6 pros that knew the maps and had the aim.
2021-11-29 18:37
2 replies
#68
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United Kingdom OllieUK
People wanna shit on NiP look at the success that they had at IEM oakland 2017 when they had 3 out of 5 of the core. That was probably when competition was at its highest give or take. Faze clan had the Guardian Olof lineup, SK had just picked up Boltz and were doing amazing, Cloud 9 had the Boston major lineup, Astralis not long won the major with Kjaerbye, G2 won a couple events with the french lineup and that was just the top teams that attended that event. Then look at the success Fnatic had with Krimz JW and Flusha in 2018 again 3 of the remaining core. Again Guardian Olof Faze lineup, SK with boltz before they fell off under MIBR, C9 major lineup, Astralis with Magisk, liquid were relatively good too. Now look at how competitive teams are in the current time. navi are pretty solid no denying but then Vitality are mediocre, G2 hit or miss, Gambit go missing on LAN, Heroic are okay, NiP seem lost since the es3tag move, VP are okay, Faze are okay on LAN online not even top 15, Astralis seem mediocre and then Entropiq in my opinion are boarder tier 2. The scene is way less competitive now its just Navi stomping and then some mediocre teams. My point is the teams like NiP and Fnatic still had the core win and compete in 2017 and 2018 when the scene was way more competitive. You put the current Navi team in 2017 or 2018 idk if they win the major. You put any team outside of Navi in a 2018 event they probably dont make it past quarters. Genuinely the scene right now isn't competitive at all. I think a team like Astralis that dominated did so in a competitive era not like now where the teams are genuinely dog shit with the exception of the upper end of the top 5 being okay
2021-11-29 19:26
1 reply
#88
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Finland HARD4ENCE
0/8
2021-11-29 20:24
I mean just look at when the old nip came together to make dignitas, they flopped which lead to 2 of them not playing anymore. There is a clear difference, but hey at least they won while they could.
2021-11-29 18:38
14 replies
That's also one of the dumbest things you can say. NiP players are older. Like any other player, their prime was when they were 18-25. You can't compare a 30 year old GeTright and a 31 year old f0rest to todays players who are way younger and playing in their prime years.
2021-11-29 18:40
13 replies
Karrigan Rain Fallen Shox Snappi All of these guys competing at top level, just to name a few
2021-11-29 18:47
12 replies
#26
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Russia KICK_ZEUS
all the players u listed havent won an event in ages
2021-11-29 18:50
Karrigan is an IGL, he is mechanically way past his prime Rain is also becoming washed up and he's 5 years younger than f0rest and Gtr FalleN is also way past his prime shox is impressive but becoming washed up, and I think f0rest is still on the same skill level as shox even though hes 3 years older Snappi is also an IGL and mechanically way past his prime.
2021-11-29 18:50
and all of them are worse than f0rest currently skill wise. what was your point again? hltv apes always choose to embarrass themselves
2021-11-29 18:52
8 replies
the fuck you even talking about you dog he used the "age" excuse and I'm listing players that are clearly still surviving in the current meta despite age. flag checks out, too embarrassed to show your third world country How about Jackz, Amenek It's an awful excuse to make
2021-11-29 19:04
6 replies
#43
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Sweden Kahbor4L
But f0rest is more skilled than all those players you listed LMAO. Half of them are IGLs with dirt poor mechanics. Rain is like 5 years younger than f0rest
2021-11-29 19:07
5 replies
EXACTLY I DIDNT EVEN SAY HE WAS BAD, HE USED THE AGE EXCUSE NOT ME
2021-11-29 19:14
4 replies
#66
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Sweden Kahbor4L
What don't you understand f0rest is still good, but hes far from his prime, because he's 33 years old now
2021-11-29 19:28
3 replies
the guy is clearly an hltv ape living in his natural habitat. just don't bother with such inferior species. waste of time, doubt even his tribe acknowledges him, probably inferior even to his kind
2021-11-29 19:45
what dont you understand, i never said forest was bad you muppet
2021-11-29 19:49
1 reply
#94
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Sweden Kahbor4L
No need to be so aggressive... Chill out
2021-11-29 22:36
0/8
2021-11-29 19:16
Make a team with all of them in same team and watch what happens, they only survive in tier 1 because of their young teammates and star players. Put f0rest in any tier 1 and he'll still perform better than all of those you named
2021-11-29 19:54
N!P had less competition due to how it wasn't worth it to go to tournaments in far away countries so teams had to go to more local european events and the only way you profited off a tournament was off winning and NIP did lots of that so thats why they dominated.
2021-11-29 18:39
2014-2016 NiP, good team. 2012-2013 NiP - come on...Yes, best team at the time but no competition whatsoever. Not trying to take anything away from them, 2014-2016 the game was very competitive and tbh at its peak in terms of viewers, players etc. They were still a top3 team for longest part of those years and even top1 at times (winning major in 2014 was really deserved)
2021-11-29 18:39
+1 smart OP NIP had the first era ever! Truly most magical team ever.
2021-11-29 18:40
Less competetive environment due to lower skill, lower work ethic, lower professionalism and lower knowledge of the game at that time. It requires more effort now to win a tournament than before. And because of that it makes NIP dominance less impressive.
2021-11-29 18:41
2 replies
They didn't have the luxury of playing in todays professionalism, game knowledge and work ethic. Their prime years in their early 20s was spent in the early less developed stages of CSGO. It does not make them any less talented, they figured out the base of the game earlier than anyone else, they were insanely dominant during their time.
2021-11-29 18:43
1 reply
#122
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Denmark Zorrondo
prime NIP would get crushed nowadays nobody is minimizing their legacy tho
2021-11-29 23:21
They did have less competition but thats not their fault, what they did was still really really impressive and they deserve to be remembered for that. They helped build the foundations for csgo, if it weren't for them maybe we would be behind 1 or 2 years, and this only spurred on other teams to change the meta such as Fnatic in 2015, The LG/SK guys in 16/17 and most notably Astralis in 2018.
2021-11-29 18:41
#18
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Ukraine McSwell
It's the same thing in every sports. Messi and CR7 would probably score 500 goals per season in Pele times Wilt Chamberlain would never score 100 points in one game vs modern NBA defenders
2021-11-29 18:42
1 reply
Yes exactly, and I don't think that makes Pele or Wilt Chamberlain any less talented or impressive. They were just born in the early stages of basketball and football.
2021-11-29 18:44
less competition than navi has right now??????? LOL
2021-11-29 18:45
Most of the people saying that started playing cs 5 years ago if that
2021-11-29 18:50
no, it's not because of skills, but because of the development of new strats and how the team fits in the new environment
2021-11-29 18:51
the game was far more aim oriented back then. everybody was focused more on shooting heads than coming up with strats and tactics. eventually teams became more structured.
2021-11-29 18:55
true this is why lemickey is the goat
2021-11-29 18:59
#37
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Canada loldougie
Na'Vi has virtually no competition lol every single top team is replacing half their roster currently.
2021-11-29 19:02
7 replies
#46
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United Kingdom julz!
every top team is replacing half their roster because they fucking suck and navi beat them you could argue this for literally every time period in csgo its such a dumb argument
2021-11-29 19:08
6 replies
#47
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Canada loldougie
Replacing their rosters because Na'Vi beat them? What?
2021-11-29 19:08
5 replies
#51
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United Kingdom julz!
yes? most teams at the start of the year had the pieces they want and the players to do it, yet this year navi has come out on top and because other teams are underperforming, they are replacing players
2021-11-29 19:11
4 replies
#52
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Canada loldougie
"because other teams are underperforming, they are replacing players" Exactly, has nothing to do with Na'Vi. They are just the only team that is stable at the moment.
2021-11-29 19:12
3 replies
#59
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United Kingdom julz!
but you’re discrediting navis dominance because you said they are changing players, they are changing players cus navi are beating every team
2021-11-29 19:15
2 replies
#61
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Canada loldougie
Nobody is changing players just because they are not number 1 in the world, that's just a ridiculous assumption.
2021-11-29 19:16
1 reply
#62
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United Kingdom julz!
why fucking else would they change players? because they aren’t the best and aren’t winning tournaments.
2021-11-29 19:18
Oh hey bruh moment
2021-11-29 19:03
Only double digit mouth breathing cretins think that you can compare people across time. first person to invent the wheel would literally be retarded by todays standards, yet he changed the outcome yet he had massive impact on development of humanity.
2021-11-29 19:05
1 reply
+1 very smart. all the information players/pros have today is thanks to the foundation built by older players when the game was in its early stages. if any of these current pros started out from the bottom without access to all this information they wouldn't be half the players they are now. this is a meta that has been building up for years
2021-11-29 19:35
My opinion is, no matter if cs is more professional today, anyone or any team that is ahead of the others in their time should be recognized.
2021-11-29 19:07
what they say is true, but that doesn't make old teams less impressive.
2021-11-29 19:12
#58
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Portugal W!LDF1RE
Those reasons you stated are why old NIP would be destroyed by any top10 now. Nobody is saying they didn't have the tallent, and surely if those players were coming up now they would be great, but a more competitive scene wouldn't allow a 87 map streak.
2021-11-29 19:15
2 replies
Even a 3k elo stack can put up a fight against them nowadays
2021-11-29 22:38
#107
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Sweden Kahbor4L
There is no point to compare them to teams nowadays. The skill has progresses and the meta and the scene has developed for several years now. Of course they would be destroyed by todays teams. Doesn't make their accomplishments less impressive, I'd say they are the 3rd best team of all time after fnatic and Astralis
2021-11-29 22:54
#63
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Pakistan hawrU
Old NIP switched to csgo earlier and were practicing it since the beta the teams they beat didnt play csgo much longer than them
2021-11-29 19:19
#65
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Finland Chegue
Any ’14 team would get demolished 16-0 by any top 10 team right now.
2021-11-29 19:20
4 replies
#70
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Sweden Kahbor4L
What's your point?
2021-11-29 19:28
3 replies
That as the game progresses, so do the tactics and players become better than ever before to the point where old competition wont stand a chance against the new one. Just because that happens in almost every sport one can not take anything away from the old teams or competitions by saying that they would not do well against the current teams because of course they wont lol. I think thats what he meant at least.
2021-11-29 20:00
2 replies
#93
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Sweden Kahbor4L
Yes exactly, the game progresses and gets more developed after time, s1mple has 23k hours played while f0rest and GeT_RiGhT had 3-4k hours in old NiP. It's not a surprise that todays team are better But that doesn't mean old NiP were less impressive or less talented. It's just natural that the skill progresses over time as the meta develops.
2021-11-29 22:35
1 reply
+1
2021-11-30 02:49
If we look at other sports we can see the same thing. Pele, Maradona Dendi, LightofHeaven Lethamyr, Kuxir Bill Russels, Chamberlin Lee petty Marino? Point is, as time goes on games simply become more perfected and demanding. We shouldn't be bashing on those who were dominate in the olden days however, as they were the ones to pave the way we all compete within those games.
2021-11-29 19:27
2 replies
Yea it's so dumb to make those comparisons that people are making. All these sports and games develops over time. The standard becomes way higher, because there are years of experience where different teams have built and perfected the game. The standard becomes higher and higher with the years. Doesn't make the older players less talented or their feats less impressive.
2021-11-29 23:08
1 reply
Exactly
2021-11-30 02:46
nip fell off after 2015
2021-11-29 19:50
1 reply
vp>nip
2021-11-29 19:50
Agree but it is still true that it was easier to win back then than it is today. We just can't hold that against the teams that used to be great several years ago because it's ridiculous.
2021-11-29 20:12
If this is about NIP 87-0. Yes. You can't compare competition back then and right now. If you believe the level was this high, we aren't watching same time of cs:go. So yes, once more. Back then, competition level was lower than it is right now. So Astralis ERA > Na'vi ERA ( for now ) > Fnatic ERA - Rest
2021-11-29 20:12
6 replies
If you think current Na'Vi > fnatic and NiP era you must be smoking some dank shit
2021-11-29 23:07
1 reply
'You can't compare competition back then and right now'
2021-11-29 23:09
Also, idk, did you even read my post? "You can't compare competition back then and right now. If you believe the level was this high, we aren't watching same time of cs:go." That's my entire point. The level of CSGO has increased, the standard now is way higher than before. Because the older teams spent thousands of hours training and perfecting the game, the meta has developed a lot. Of course todays teams are better, because the game has developed after all these years, older teams figured out things that wasn't known before, and now those things are standardized. You shouldn't compare the older teams to todays teams, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Just because NiP happened to be an older team, that dominated years ago when the scene was less developed, doesn't make their feats and achievements LESS impressive.
2021-11-29 23:11
1 reply
I never said it was less impressive, did i?
2021-11-30 00:43
Are you completely serious, like actually not trolling when you say that Na'Vi era > fnatic era and NiP era? That's the most ridiculous shit i've read in a while.
2021-11-29 23:12
1 reply
You'll have to figure that out alone buddy
2021-11-30 00:43
They were much ahead of the competition. So they deserve all the praise.
2021-11-29 20:41
4 replies
Not that hard when your competition is full of semi pros
2021-11-29 22:37
3 replies
#103
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Sweden Kahbor4L
What are you talking about? They were ahead of everyone because they were insanely talented.
2021-11-29 22:50
2 replies
They were the first to fully transition + most of the scene had full time jobs at the time
2021-11-29 22:56
1 reply
#109
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Sweden Kahbor4L
Nope not true, and incase you forgot, NiP won a major in 2014 and got to major final in 2015 It's not like they completely fell off after 2013
2021-11-29 22:58
Copium
2021-11-29 22:37
Who were the teams then who can maybe win against nip in 2012/2013? Only 2 teams Astana Dragons and Verygames
2021-11-29 22:40
2 replies
#102
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Sweden Kahbor4L
NiP were still very good in 2014&2015 dude, they won major in 2014 and reached major final in 2015.
2021-11-29 22:50
1 reply
I thought the topic was more about 12/13
2021-11-29 22:51
+1 also people can play csgo for a living, unlike before where teams didnt even have a salary
2021-11-29 22:49
#118
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Netherlands arTvamp
Agreed. each domniance should be viewed in their own meta or time. For example by the time Astralis dominationed the competition was much more tougher as well. Yet their runs or records like the nuke streak unmatched. they also created a meta of the game. Today in Navi's time (seemingly, almost era) the competition has evolved and risen yet again. too bad we had this online competition inbetween that doesnt mean much to me. So whois to say really. domiance is domiance, its better to look at their run, era and by how much they dominated for how long could they keep the rest of the competition below them> perhaps yards apart!
2021-11-29 23:12
1 reply
#124
JW | 
Sweden gNeJS
Very well put.
2021-11-29 23:28
just watch the old nip playing they are horrible . basically all daps skill level
2021-11-29 23:29
because no one wanted to compete in early csgo i mean is it they're fault?
2021-11-29 23:33
#133
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Ukraine Bakagan
they were great and top 1 for a long time they went down in history, and I consider it stupid to compare them with the dominant astralis in their best years or the present Navi
2021-11-30 02:45
#136
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France Torres_
No but it tilts me when people say Prime Astralis would beat Na'vi lol Any top 30 team in 2021 would beat Prime Astralis
2021-11-30 02:49
I mean old NiP was the most dominant team of the old days. They solidified that after CPL Winter 2001
2021-11-30 02:55
#139
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Albania realmenzz
Whereas old NiP had around 3-4k hours played. Old pros had thousands of hours in 1.6 and source People got better because more player got invested into this shit not because the average pro hours increased. People in 2013 were getting like 2000 euros or something like that as salary and these were NIP. Why would anyone invest his time to become pro at that time
2021-11-30 02:58
1 reply
Having 20k hours played compared to 4k hours played is a massive difference, of course it leads to improvement..
2021-11-30 14:29
People say old NiP were a weak era because the teams they were against had all these disadvantages, but NiP also had those disadvantages
2021-11-30 03:02
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