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2018 Astralis versus 2021 Natus Vincere USING STATISTICS
NAF | 
United States dyragu 
DISCLAIMER: This thread’s purpose is to use statistics and facts to determine an outcome between a bo3 series 2018 Astralis versus Natus Vincere. Due note that I am aware that this is IMPOSSIBLE to determine a straight answer due to two different metas, two differing map pools and two different time periods as well as two differing competitive environments. THIS THREAD IS NOT BIASED AGAINST ANY OF THESE TEAMS IN ANY FORM ITS PURELY UNBIASED. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TLDR: in 2018 meta 2-1 Natus Vincere; in 2021 2-0 Natus Vincere bigger TLDR: in 2018 meta 2-1 Natus Vincere because of 2021 Nuke meta would have been so deadly in 2018. In 2021 Natus Vincere 2-0 Astralis because of Astralis not knowing how to play Dust2 (the new mid), the removal of the Astralis smoke on Mirage (bigger mid), and not being aware of the completely revamped Nuke. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I’m separating this into two time periods: 2018 London Major and 2021 Stockholm Major due to different map pools and different metas completely. 2018 London Major: Map Pool: Mirage, Dust2, Inferno, Nuke, Train, Overpass, Cache Veto facts: Astralis and Natus Vincere perma ban Cache: Astralis played Cache 11 times through 2018 though because gla1ve is a savage who punish picked some teams using Cache in the series (5head). Natus Vincere have always refused to play Cache and it fits perfectly because they perma ban Vertigo so technically it doesn’t affect them. (Astralis due to seed at London get to choose to ban second/Team B) 1. Natus Vincere removes Cache (see note for explanation) 2. Astralis removes Train (see note for explanation) 3. Natus Vincere pick Mirage (punish pick) 4. Astralis pick Overpass (punish pick as well) 5. Natus Vincere removes Dust2 (Astralis 2018 Dust2 was deadly) 6. Astralis removes Inferno (not because they were bad at Inferno, only because Nuke is like 97% percent win rate for them) 7. Nuke was left over (both teams have incredible Nuke win rates which is the main reason why Dust2 and Inferno were removed in the second phase of bans) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note: when I was doing the veto I decided for Astralis ban Train (which would be Ancient today because Astralis play mirage in 2021 recently) and Natus Vincere ban Cache (since they literally always ban Cache/Vertigo). I hate when teams get an unfair veto advantage if they both of the same perma ban. My explanation for the punish picks is this: After Train and Cache get taken out during first phase of bans, Astralis’ worst map is Mirage with a 71.1% win rate. Natus Vincere will not pick Inferno because it is Astralis’ bread and butter next to Nuke. So Natus Vincere pick Mirage. Astralis picks Overpass due to Natus Vincere’s 52.2% win rate throughout 2021 compared to Astralis’ 71.4% win rate. Astralis do not pick Inferno because Natus Vincere has a 72% win rate compared to Astralis’ 81% win rate. (Rather have a 19 percent lead compared to a 9 percent lead) Explanation for decider: simply both teams best maps on paper so why ban it during phase 1 or phase 2. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THE 2018 MATCH (FINALLY LOL): Mirage: 16-14 NaVi (not a prediction just a score line implying this map is close). Honestly I would say this game is 60/40 Natus Vincere due to current Mirage form. I gave 14 rounds to Astralis due to them inventing mid control smoke on Mirage (this the Mirage with the top mid being smaller a bit for the Astralis smoke) Combination of electronic’s reliable CT entry frag percentage at connector and s1mple’s AWP presence gives NaVi 16 rounds. Overpass: 19-17 Astralis (again not a prediction just showing the map is close). This game is definitely 50/50 in my opinion. I have to give Astralis the win for my Nuke explanation but I will say that Astralis’ 71% win rate versus NaVi 52% win rate definitely was the factor. Nuke: 16-8 Natus Vincere (now this is a prediction I would guess even lower maybe like 16-4 maybe) This map isn’t close at all I’m sorry. I do admit Astralis revamped Nuke T side but in the grand scheme of things they revolutionized the Upper Site A Execute. Natus Vincere would absolutely clutter Astralis on this map. The Nuke meta in 2021 is way way more heavy towards Outside Control which Natus Vincere are menaces at. Simply put it in 2018 Astralis don’t know if any of these Outside Control strats because it hasn’t been introduced yet. 2021 Natus Vincere will 2-1 2018 Astralis during the 2018 meta. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2021 Stockholm Major: Map Pool: Ancient, Vertigo, Dust2, Mirage, Inferno, Overpass, Nuke I’m using the same veto facts because Astralis will ban Ancient (cuz it is technically the Train ban from the London Major) and Natus Vincere will ban Vertigo (cuz it is their perma ban in 2021) Veto: (thank god these teams would reasonably ban Ancient and Vertigo. if you know how vetos work you know). (Natus Vincere choose Team B due to seeding in Legends stage) 1. Astralis removes Ancient (acts as Train) 2. Natus Vincere removes Vertigo (acts as Cache) 3. Astralis pick Inferno (because this map has not changed in layout from 2018 to 2021 and because higher win rate on Inferno than Overpass) 4. Natus Vincere pick Nuke (though Astralis have a 97% win rate they don’t know how to play 2021 Nuke) 5. Astralis ban Dust2 (because they don’t know the mid and lower aggression) 6. Natus Vincere ban Overpass (Astralis’ win rate difference and also the map hasn’t changed so Astralis would know 2018 smokes and etc. 7. Mirage is left over (doesn’t matter but even if Astralis win the two picked maps they would be unaware of their Mid Control smoke being ineffective due to bigger mid) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THE 2021 MATCH (I CAN’T BELIEVE YOU ARE STILLING READING): Natus Vincere wins Inferno 16-10 since Magisk can’t rely on his AUG at pit due to nerf xd. honestly speaking Astralis having to go against b1t, electronic, and s1mple at their current forms without AUGS like gg after saying this. Natus Vincere wins Nuke 16-0 due to Astralis not knowing the new layout and are unaware how to counter the new outside control meta in 2021. If Astralis somehow wins one of these (probably Inferno), they can’t rely on their mid control tactic due to the larger mid layout of Mirage. 2021 Natus Vincere will 2-0 2018 Astralis during the 2021 meta. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Author’s note: how the fuck did you read all of that. All joking aside Astralis could only realistically win the 2018 series maybe but the fact that the 2021 Nuke meta can easily apply to 2018 Nuke (the shit one) is cool. 2018 Astralis had an unfair advantage going into the 2021 Stockholm Major situation though. It is what it is. I’ll say it again: I’m not dissing the Astralis Era or Astralis from 2018. They are the best team of all time without a shadow of a doubt. But they can not beat Natus Vincere STATISTICALLY speaking in both 2018 and 2021 metas. much love and thanks for reading <3 (you did not read lol) ~some open IGL
2021-11-30 23:17
Topics are hidden when running Sport mode.
Am I supposed to read all of this
2021-11-30 23:18
7 replies
+1
2021-11-30 23:21
#11
NAF | 
United States dyragu
TLDR is available
2021-11-30 23:21
4 replies
Interesting that you decided to compare them by making them match up against each other. Most people would probably compare them to each other relative to their time
2021-11-30 23:22
3 replies
#20
NAF | 
United States dyragu
I mean it was the only way. Like I said in the disclaimer it is impossible to know.
2021-11-30 23:23
2 replies
Respect for the effort either way
2021-11-30 23:24
1 reply
#66
NAF | 
United States dyragu
thx
2021-11-30 23:47
#162
 | 
Germany frankturv
i will wait the movie come out
2021-12-01 02:20
ok
2021-11-30 23:19
1 reply
#53
NAF | 
United States dyragu
okayge
2021-11-30 23:36
#3
 | 
Finland HARD4ENCE
TLDR plz thx
2021-11-30 23:19
2 replies
#5
 | 
Finland HARD4ENCE
props for putting the effort for this essay regardless
2021-11-30 23:20
1 reply
#8
NAF | 
United States dyragu
I put a TLDR IN BIG BOLD
2021-11-30 23:20
No way you really wrote all of this, respect my friend
2021-11-30 23:19
3 replies
#50
NAF | 
United States dyragu
TLDR is at top after disclaimer.
2021-11-30 23:34
2 replies
#118
 | 
United States I_AM_BETA
ty for put this together, most ppl ignore everything and look for tldr at the bottom
2021-12-01 01:00
1 reply
#121
NAF | 
United States dyragu
I thought putting it at the top would make it more visible. Thx for the tip
2021-12-01 01:04
#6
b1t | 
Ukraine devitt
didn't read but gj
2021-11-30 23:20
1 reply
+1
2021-11-30 23:21
#7
 | 
Netherlands Datsun510
Didnt read cuz too long but it looks high effort so have a bump
2021-11-30 23:20
2 replies
+1
2021-11-30 23:21
#17
NAF | 
United States dyragu
TLDR is available
2021-11-30 23:22
#9
 | 
United States hondayzx
please go outside sir
2021-11-30 23:21
1 reply
#13
NAF | 
United States dyragu
TLDR is available
2021-11-30 23:21
next step for u is to logout and get a job
2021-11-30 23:22
1 reply
#49
NAF | 
United States dyragu
I’m young I do not need a job but I do have a job lol
2021-11-30 23:34
I arent read that but I can say this thread is completly useless
2021-11-30 23:22
1 reply
#22
NAF | 
United States dyragu
TLDR is available
2021-11-30 23:23
#19
OK | 
United States maidz4
dude just stfu
2021-11-30 23:23
2 replies
top comment here ngl
2021-11-30 23:25
1 reply
#37
NAF | 
United States dyragu
ahahaha true
2021-11-30 23:28
TLDR
2021-11-30 23:23
3 replies
#23
NAF | 
United States dyragu
TLDR is available
2021-11-30 23:23
2 replies
still TLDR i scrolled down and got headache
2021-11-30 23:24
1 reply
#26
NAF | 
United States dyragu
near the top
2021-11-30 23:24
bump, but this is the second time I see you posting these long hltv threads. I understand that you write this all in like a week or so, but you know that 99% of people won't read this all and just why men? just give quick opinion. why this long text.
2021-11-30 23:25
14 replies
#35
NAF | 
United States dyragu
because I like doing this. I like csgo. And I’m a stats major so :)
2021-11-30 23:28
13 replies
I understand, but what's the point if only like 1 guy out of 100 will read that all?
2021-11-30 23:37
12 replies
#56
NAF | 
United States dyragu
TLDR and it doesn’t matter
2021-11-30 23:37
7 replies
I still kinda don't understand your way of thinking about this, but what can I do. gl further.
2021-11-30 23:39
6 replies
#61
NAF | 
United States dyragu
There is no thinking. There doesn’t have to be??
2021-11-30 23:39
5 replies
idk, you're just a little weird tbh. no one on hltv make these type of threads and no one get's it. what's the point of all that text if u have tldr and no one basically will read that all text.
2021-11-30 23:42
4 replies
#63
NAF | 
United States dyragu
hmm just for documentation. I could of easily just not posted the big thread but I put a tldr cuz some people need that. It isn’t that deep.
2021-11-30 23:43
#74
 | 
Liechtenstein xLy^
why do you have problem mens? for what its worth i didn't read half of the post but i still enjoyed it, good hltv content
2021-12-01 00:07
2 replies
#76
NAF | 
United States dyragu
#71 he understands now :)
2021-12-01 00:09
wdym? I don't have any problems.
2021-12-01 00:12
#67
NAF | 
United States dyragu
you know actually now that I think about it I just do it to inform people and the rare 1 out of 100 people sometimes want to discuss further on the topic I posted about which I enjoy. There’s my answer :)
2021-11-30 23:56
3 replies
now I understand you mens, but anyways, gl further))
2021-12-01 00:06
That's actually really wholesome :)
2021-12-01 00:53
1 reply
#109
NAF | 
United States dyragu
your wholesome :)
2021-12-01 00:53
It's fair to say that. The meta keeps evolving.
2021-11-30 23:25
1 reply
#41
NAF | 
United States dyragu
yes
2021-11-30 23:29
#29
Xyp9x | 
Poland f3nce
I think this is one of the best of high-quality posts on any topic I saw, good job bro! :)
2021-11-30 23:25
1 reply
#34
NAF | 
United States dyragu
Thank you glad I can inform you :)
2021-11-30 23:26
ok men, I respect your work, keep on spamming cuz some people will read and learn smthn and stop being ignorant navi fangirl slavs
2021-11-30 23:25
3 replies
#48
NAF | 
United States dyragu
is this a compliment or an insult or both lol. TLDR is at top after disclaimer.
2021-11-30 23:33
2 replies
it's a compliment bro, shows u a fan of csgo such as i am, and not a person that claims to be fan, cause they see 2 games a month, and know about simple double no scope
2021-11-30 23:37
1 reply
#58
NAF | 
United States dyragu
ahh alrighty thx lol
2021-11-30 23:38
didn't read but is it a copy pasta made for lulz?
2021-11-30 23:25
1 reply
#33
NAF | 
United States dyragu
no I put effort in. Tldr is at the top after disclaimer.
2021-11-30 23:26
i read the whole thing. pretty easy to understand, lots of effort. +1
2021-11-30 23:28
1 reply
#38
NAF | 
United States dyragu
:) mens)))
2021-11-30 23:28
astralis only won tournaments like iem, dhm, eleague, ecs and indeed the major in 2018. 2 blast pro series tournaments are the only talking point navi have major and 2 lans, if we take the most relevant achievements. also 3 online tournaments (can only mention them with asterisk) and 1 cis rmr trophy (-> trash can), but even with these astralis won more also you can tell how astralis changed the game and revolutionized a lot of its aspects. navi are more like liquid 2019 in terms of impact
2021-11-30 23:29
7 replies
#43
NAF | 
United States dyragu
You do have a point. I kinda disregarded online and lan play. It is what is. But I hear you man.
2021-11-30 23:30
NaVi is pretty much like Liquid 2019 but the difference is there was no real Astralis in last major which is the reason NaVi won it (s1mple himself said that) biggest rule of the pro scene: no skill-oriented teams last so long, doesn't matter if it is international or all of the guys speak the same language. NaVi doesn't have either structure or system, they are just hitting their shots
2021-12-01 02:09
5 replies
yeah navi seems to be simply snowballing the scene rn just like liquid. i really hated that boring liquid domination, and rn im close to that feeling
2021-12-01 02:38
4 replies
Gonna come back to this topic when season break hits them hard
2021-12-01 02:39
3 replies
#196
NAF | 
United States dyragu
sheee at least they got a major lol. unlike liquid navi doesn't choke historically.... i hate to say it
2021-12-01 02:45
2 replies
you shouldn't consider losing against astralis as choking
2021-12-01 04:24
1 reply
#202
NAF | 
United States dyragu
oh it’s not even just astralis
2021-12-01 13:49
I'll tell you why Astralis 2018 wins this current NAVI (with difficulties) This current NAVI has the highest firepower ever seen in csgo imo. s1mple, b1t and elec (sometimes Perfecto) is too much for the teams, you almost never realize that boombl4 is bad But Astralis 2018 had immense firepower too and if we're talking about collective game, NAVI doesn't come close to them. Astralis 2018 > current NAVI.
2021-11-30 23:30
1 reply
#45
NAF | 
United States dyragu
listen I would completely agree with you man definitely in the 2018 meta. The 2021 meta is simply (no pun) just factual better and more advanced than the 2018 meta
2021-11-30 23:32
#42
 | 
Argentina Tegu619
thanks for the tldr
2021-11-30 23:30
1 reply
#46
NAF | 
United States dyragu
No problem
2021-11-30 23:33
ty mens
2021-11-30 23:32
1 reply
#59
NAF | 
United States dyragu
No problem mens
2021-11-30 23:38
bigger than my essay
2021-11-30 23:33
1 reply
#51
NAF | 
United States dyragu
lmao
2021-11-30 23:34
#52
 | 
Denmark Galdun
What you are really saying is that the current meta is likely to beat an older meta to which the only appropriate response is 'well duh'.. Teams have seen and responded to the meta that Astralis were instrumental in establishing. The meta has since moved on, because once you establish a certain meta other teams eventually copy it, improve it and learn ways to counter it.. The only way to get an approximation of how these teams compare when they are seperated by time, is to see how they played against the other teams in their time.. Astralis were far more meta definng during their reign than Na'vi is currently or is likely to ever become.
2021-11-30 23:35
11 replies
#54
NAF | 
United States dyragu
yes I agree. I believe I clarified that using context but idk if it is English second language friendly
2021-11-30 23:37
10 replies
#64
 | 
Denmark Galdun
Well I did see you write something along those lines.. Then I saw you write an entire essay which seemed to negate that point somewhat.. Why write the essay if you realize that it's completely pointless..? Sorry I don't get it..
2021-11-30 23:45
9 replies
#65
NAF | 
United States dyragu
I never once in the post refuted that Astralis did not have a the most meta defining era. This thread is technically just 2021 meta beats 2018 meta. Like I said in the disclaimer is impossible to know the answer regardless but I used statistics to find a logical answer disregarding time periods
2021-11-30 23:46
8 replies
#112
 | 
Denmark Galdun
Well, I never said you did. This just reminds me that an answer will often only be as good the question being asked, regardless of the tools used to get to that answer.
2021-12-01 00:58
7 replies
#115
NAF | 
United States dyragu
yes!? :)?
2021-12-01 00:58
6 replies
#130
 | 
Denmark Galdun
Sorry.. Usually when people write something as involved as this, they tend to have atleast some discernable point that they are attempting to make.. I asked you why you would go through the effort if you realize the question being asked is completely bunk ? and U never really gave an answer. =) Also. Statistics don't help shed light on this question in any way whatsoever for a million reasons.. "But they can not beat Natus Vincere STATISTICALLY speaking in both 2018 and 2021 metas." - That's not how statistics work
2021-12-01 01:14
5 replies
#132
NAF | 
United States dyragu
hmm you are right. With the statistics. My bad. But with my point of the thread is just comparing an impossible match to predict and using statistics essentially to justify an outcome. In a world where time machines existed then I can have justification but I don’t
2021-12-01 01:16
4 replies
#135
 | 
Denmark Galdun
That's fair.. Honestly I didn't think of it like that, would be an awesome match no doubt. For the record, I do think you are correct in your prediction of the outcome, I would put na'vi as the favourite probably. (now that I write it, my heart is screaming nooo) But my head says they are favourites, considering they have an unfair advantage in that scenario, kinda like time-hacks, and I don't think VAC would save Astralis. :) I enjoyed ur thread and the discussion. Thanks
2021-12-01 01:25
3 replies
#136
NAF | 
United States dyragu
np i tried pre-clearing a bunch of misunderstandings the disclaimer but its impossible to make a constitutional disclaimer lmao
2021-12-01 01:26
2 replies
#137
 | 
Denmark Galdun
I gotchu.. I just re-read our exchange.. I do come across as pretty nitpicky tbh. Probably more than what was warranted. I'll go away now. Have a good one !
2021-12-01 01:34
1 reply
#138
NAF | 
United States dyragu
you too man
2021-12-01 01:34
#68
NAF | 
United States dyragu
bumping so someone can be the 69th comment
2021-12-01 00:01
1 reply
#139
NAF | 
United States dyragu
69
2021-12-01 01:45
most braindead thread i read in a while
2021-12-01 00:03
3 replies
#70
NAF | 
United States dyragu
if this is from looking at the length then TLDR is at the top after disclaimer. also probably true unfortunately. can’t wait to see smooya and mezzi destroy at iem winter tho. Unfortunate first match up though
2021-12-01 00:05
2 replies
i read until 2021 matchup. np king smooya will destroy sh0ro the rat
2021-12-01 00:07
1 reply
#77
NAF | 
United States dyragu
hell yeah smooya essay coming. Kidding lmao but I could. mezzi is a fucking amazing support gonna upgrade from tier 2 support farming to tier 1 support farming
2021-12-01 00:12
We haven't seen this Navi era yet so you're too premature to compare
2021-12-01 00:06
1 reply
#75
NAF | 
United States dyragu
I wasn’t saying they have an era. It’s just comparing 2021 NaVi versus 2018 Astralis but it is honestly just comparing different metas
2021-12-01 00:08
+Respect serious thought went into this and its backed up by explanations, really cool
2021-12-01 00:15
1 reply
#81
NAF | 
United States dyragu
glad I informed you :)
2021-12-01 00:16
wtf nerd
2021-12-01 00:16
1 reply
#82
NAF | 
United States dyragu
thanks
2021-12-01 00:16
i read all 1 think the punish mirage pick is stupid navi is goin to secure dust 2 or eve nuke a power pick not a mirage (2018 astralis always ban mirage BTW and train) used the 2018 final bans for this games is delusional u need to take the actual navi pick/WR in those maps and in the 2018 meta astralis will destroy actual navi is sad but actual navi is a super fire power team, but 2018 astralis strats is the KEY and the way they read every team like a open book know the 2021 meta we can drop nades vs 2018 astralis they kill u bro inferno nuke dont care Xyp-gla1ve-magisk with more nades are u crazy
2021-12-01 00:21
32 replies
#84
NAF | 
United States dyragu
that isn’t true tho. They rarely banned mirage. Their main perma ban in 2018 was cache?! Look again.
2021-12-01 00:25
5 replies
#85
NAF | 
United States dyragu
in fact I don’t think Astralis banned mirage once in 2018
2021-12-01 00:25
4 replies
They started permabanning mirage in mid 2019 after removal of cache, NAF made a meme about that on twitter I remember
2021-12-01 02:12
3 replies
#154
NAF | 
United States dyragu
honestly surprised they didnt end up perma banning vertigo after that. gla1ve living on a 4d plane tho cuz he used vertigo when it sucked to win berlin lmao
2021-12-01 02:14
2 replies
that was one of the biggest counterstrat in csgo history honestly
2021-12-01 02:18
1 reply
#166
NAF | 
United States dyragu
ahahahah the look on their faces. it hurts even more being NA fan and they knocked out both NA teams ;-;
2021-12-01 02:21
#86
NAF | 
United States dyragu
how are you even a fan of Astralis if you don’t even know that
2021-12-01 00:27
25 replies
yeah we are talking about the 2021 navi they best pick is mirage if navi bans the cache why they are goint to let it open vs a 41 times played team is stupid
2021-12-01 00:29
24 replies
#89
NAF | 
United States dyragu
huh. Are you dumb? READ THE TIME PERIOD IDIOT. WHY WOULD ASTRALIS BAN MIRAGE??? TRAIN LITERALLY WAS THE WORST MAP AGAINST NAVI LOL. ASTRALIS DONT BAN MIRAGE IN 2018 CONNECT THE DOTS FAKEFAN
2021-12-01 00:33
4 replies
astralis ban mirage vs navi in the london final second this navi is a great Mirage team (most played map) u talk about the WR and stats but u never think about the teams strats in the vetos, if uf want to have mirage navi cant ban cache because that was astralis permaban, so this navi insteam maybe ban the train and let more map options for navi but no u literally gift astralis all the choices in this veto
2021-12-01 00:36
3 replies
#94
NAF | 
United States dyragu
I gave Astralis Team B in the veto because of their seeding you idiot. I also gave Team B to NaVi in the Stockholm part. You clearly didn’t read or get the premise of the thread. #91
2021-12-01 00:37
2 replies
yeah and u make navi ban cache why astralis remove Train vs team who dont play that map for months, but ok u have the best coach in the history the enemy ban ur perma ban u let open the enemy most played map
2021-12-01 00:39
1 reply
#97
NAF | 
United States dyragu
actually objectively speaking technically Natus Vincere know how to play 2020 train meta against 2018 train meta so again refuted. But now I understand your point. Just don’t get your facts incorrect. #95
2021-12-01 00:42
#91
NAF | 
United States dyragu
2021-12-01 00:35
18 replies
astralis ban mirage vs navi in the london final but ok
2021-12-01 00:36
17 replies
#95
NAF | 
United States dyragu
2021-12-01 00:39
16 replies
6. astralis removed Mirage prnt.sc/215tb3c
2021-12-01 00:42
15 replies
#99
NAF | 
United States dyragu
that’s second phase no fucking shit???!
2021-12-01 00:43
2 replies
yeah and they doit so this time vs a navi who have 41 mirage maps played, they are goin to ban train?
2021-12-01 00:44
1 reply
#102
NAF | 
United States dyragu
tell me the whole ban process so I can try to understand you from 1-7
2021-12-01 00:46
#101
NAF | 
United States dyragu
I love how I have disproved so many of your statements and the more you try got disprove me you just twist your words of reason and no evidence lmao
2021-12-01 00:45
11 replies
only dispreved the perma ban but this dont change the fact that the 2021 navi only have 10 train maps played is a useles ban (if u add the anciente only 21 lowest pick ratio) then u have mirage and dust 2 navi best maps and most played in 2021 explain to me why someone ban train and not one of these vs navi?
2021-12-01 00:48
10 replies
#105
NAF | 
United States dyragu
2021-12-01 00:48
7 replies
is simple we have both stats navi or astralis perma ban cache in this case someone is goin to doit Navi 1 ban if they are afraid the just ban than shit 1 navi cache 2 astralis with the info ban mirage or dust2 (they have a strong D2 so mirage for me) picks (no mirage) Dust2 is a navi power pick and with the new meta ez pick for they astralis nuke or inferno both strong maps 2 ban phase navi overpass (they are better in inferno by a mile) astralis train (the same inferno better pick) end like this. 1 navi pick d2 2 Ast Pick Nuke 3 inferno (navi can beat they with actual meta yes but i think the astralis strat too powerfull maybe 2-1) but if navi dont ban cache astralis 100% ban that and navi have all the option in the picks and 2 phase bans
2021-12-01 00:55
6 replies
#113
NAF | 
United States dyragu
okay I somewhat understand your point. Also don’t forget that for the 2018 Major one I’m referring to the older versions of the map so 2018 not 2021
2021-12-01 00:57
5 replies
yeah but still navi strat work in all the 2018 maps (the only big change is train and cache) but astralis perma ban cache so is ez for they
2021-12-01 00:59
4 replies
#120
NAF | 
United States dyragu
okay so first off Astralis are open to play cache btw so NaVi have to ban Cache. So now Astralis can ban Mirage like you said. 1. ast removes mirage 2. NaVi removes cache 3. AST picks Train 4. NaVi picks dust2 5. AST bans overpass 6. NaVi bans inferno 7. Decider Nuke
2021-12-01 01:03
3 replies
and i think this navi can beat that astralis in train so Navi can ever have a 2-0 but is hard we compare the best fire power ever vs the best strats (astralis have strong fire power too) but i think for me the key factor is b1t under this astralis presure, where i can paid to have this series GOOD a banger
2021-12-01 01:07
1 reply
#127
NAF | 
United States dyragu
yeah sad it’s impossible to know at all cuz no time machines
2021-12-01 01:08
#126
NAF | 
United States dyragu
Damn this kinda makes it 50/50
2021-12-01 01:07
#107
NAF | 
United States dyragu
Let’s reset because you have a point now. Tell the veto process so I can follow along with you
2021-12-01 00:53
1 reply
if navi dont ban cache i am with u in that map pick TBH only change train with cache and u have navi with the best pick selection ever they play every map astralis play Dust2-Inferno-Nuke and Mirage fuck if they do that and i am zonic i cry TBH XD
2021-12-01 00:58
Tldr 2018 astralis>2021 NaVi any day of the week.
2021-12-01 00:28
1 reply
#90
NAF | 
United States dyragu
in terms of meta defining yes but currently no based off statistics. But based off opinion to me it’s impossible to say or at most a coin flip.
2021-12-01 00:34
Astralis biggest strenght was the ability to counter any team they went up against, Na'vi ( good as they are ) doesn't have this strength Even based off statistics i would still say Astralis would win 8/10 matches against Na'Vi But it was a good read, sadly you can't really compare it like that
2021-12-01 00:46
1 reply
#106
NAF | 
United States dyragu
yeah unfortunate. like imagining them going thru a time machine and playing is literally impossible
2021-12-01 00:49
NaVi are shit compared to peak astralis
2021-12-01 00:55
15 replies
#123
NAF | 
United States dyragu
Maybe you are right we don’t know tho cuz it’s impossible to know
2021-12-01 01:06
14 replies
It's pretty much possible to know, boombl4 is not great IGL, apex is miles ahead in terms of being the leader for the team and comparing boombl4 to gla1ve is a joke honestly. unlikely navi, astralis had a system developed by years and years of sticking together, even before their era. navi easily crumbles when s1mple doesn't hit his shots (others performance is simply not enough, all relies on s1mple), where astralis have won the tournaments were they weren't individually on point (chicago 2018 for example, they were shit individually), thats the difference between the team approaching the game strategically and the team depended on superstar
2021-12-01 02:18
13 replies
#161
NAF | 
United States dyragu
true but also see my FOURTH point of this thread hltv.org/forums/threads/2553307/b1ad3-ap..
2021-12-01 02:20
#163
NAF | 
United States dyragu
boombl4 is improving
2021-12-01 02:20
11 replies
he's not improving lmao, accept the fact navi 100% relies on raw skill and boombl4 is clearly the weak link. Even if they change him with other IGL it doesn't matter because of s1mples ego, don't think he would play under the system. The only player in navi who can play under the long-developed system is electronic
2021-12-01 02:22
10 replies
#171
NAF | 
United States dyragu
i can see your point but its hard. as an IGL I see him improving he has an amazing coach to back him up as well. it doesn't have to be only boombl4 compared to gla1ve. also electronic's help with mid rounds should be considered as well.
2021-12-01 02:24
9 replies
You're wrong if you think gla1ve is calling everything, mentioned it so many times already but that's the point of long-developed system, gla1ve and zonic have created Astralis so with that said gla1ve doesn't need to call everything, all of the 5 were calling equally
2021-12-01 02:26
8 replies
and boombl4 can never do that
2021-12-01 02:26
#177
NAF | 
United States dyragu
yes i agree with that. you have some really great points. honestly I don't even know what we are debating about rn lmao can we refresh
2021-12-01 02:27
6 replies
we are shitting on boombl4 doing absolutely nothing in the team lmao
2021-12-01 02:28
5 replies
#182
NAF | 
United States dyragu
hmm ig. honestly speaking tho boombl4 is at the very least and amazing role and support player man. you do have a point with the IGLing thing. rn the game is really really CT sided so you do got a point fuck. i just respect boombl4 for being forced into the IGL position after zeus left. b1ad3 definitely carries in tactical timeouts and demo reviewing lolol
2021-12-01 02:30
4 replies
actually b1ad3 is way more important in the team than even s1mple
2021-12-01 02:31
3 replies
#186
NAF | 
United States dyragu
dude you a man of culture :O you full check my b1ad3 appreciation post you would appreciate it lol
2021-12-01 02:32
2 replies
thank you my fellow naffer
2021-12-01 02:33
1 reply
#191
NAF | 
United States dyragu
b1ad3 is really under appreciated imo. but I'm not gonna rave anymore cuz its all in that post LOL
2021-12-01 02:34
astralis 4 major navi 1 major navi not even close to prime astralis and you know it
2021-12-01 01:02
1 reply
#122
NAF | 
United States dyragu
I did not say that. I wasn’t comparing majors at all. And technically 2018 Astralis only had 2 majors.
2021-12-01 01:05
comparing a team with 4 majors to a team that only won a major after a period online is a joke
2021-12-01 01:06
15 replies
#128
NAF | 
United States dyragu
I’m comparing 2018 Astralis which had 2 majors at the time with the new major champions. It is justified.
2021-12-01 01:09
14 replies
that doesn't matter lmao, the Astralis system in general (either with kjaerbye or Magisk) have won 21+ tournaments including 4 majors and first ever grand slam
2021-12-01 02:20
13 replies
#167
NAF | 
United States dyragu
true say but its the time period 2018 still
2021-12-01 02:21
#170
NAF | 
United States dyragu
in 2018 with magisk they won grand slam all lan and major and navi 2021 won grand slam (some online so minus points for me) and won a major. the whole premise of this is just statistics it isn't a #majors>#majors discussion
2021-12-01 02:23
11 replies
Not to care about anything between those two teams, they main point is that device just threw his career and 5th major by leaving lol
2021-12-01 02:24
10 replies
#173
NAF | 
United States dyragu
oooo thats a topic i was actually thinking about writing about. that's something I want to delve deeper into cuz honestly idk why device did it (besides simping for emilia LOL)
2021-12-01 02:25
9 replies
simping emilia is the only reason, it's not about astralis having a rough time for monts, they have been in a way worse situation but still managed to come back over and over again
2021-12-01 02:27
8 replies
#180
NAF | 
United States dyragu
it really stinks man. i really wanted a team to win against the full roster but winning against them with lucky just ain't it man. not dissing lucky tho his rifle is a spectacle lol
2021-12-01 02:28
7 replies
there's no reason on dissing lucky tho, despite his bad performance in the major hes a rookie and he simply doesn't fit in the team gla1ve created
2021-12-01 02:30
6 replies
#183
NAF | 
United States dyragu
i said not dissing on lucky
2021-12-01 02:31
#185
NAF | 
United States dyragu
its impossible to fill devices shoes literally
2021-12-01 02:31
4 replies
device has to come back to astralis, he just belongs to them, simply as that
2021-12-01 02:32
3 replies
#190
NAF | 
United States dyragu
but speaking of astralis damn the new astralis is fucking hot tho I'm a bit against AWP/IGLing just a little biased from me tho. from experience I used to awp igl in league but I couldn't focus on both calling and using awp efficiently at the same time
2021-12-01 02:33
2 replies
they aren't that strong actually, they just were individually on point, 0 teamplay (even tho my boy xyp is in constant pain of brain growth)
2021-12-01 02:36
1 reply
#193
NAF | 
United States dyragu
lmaoooooooooooo but blamef and konfig are spectacles man. it is def honeymoon for them tho
2021-12-01 02:38
More than 5 lines i don't read
2021-12-01 01:10
1 reply
#133
NAF | 
United States dyragu
there is a TLDR after disclaimer with less than 2 lines
2021-12-01 01:17
It's a good read and if you are going to compare different years of different meta-games, this is definitely a valiant effort. :) Thank you for the read, friend.
2021-12-01 01:14
1 reply
#134
NAF | 
United States dyragu
I tried lot the best of my abilities and resources
2021-12-01 01:19
u are delusional as fuck. closed
2021-12-01 01:48
6 replies
#142
NAF | 
United States dyragu
k idek what ur flag is and ur tier 4 team
2021-12-01 02:04
5 replies
2021-12-01 02:05
4 replies
#146
NAF | 
United States dyragu
u cant even define delusional in ur native language
2021-12-01 02:05
3 replies
2021-12-01 02:05
2 replies
#149
NAF | 
United States dyragu
now its closed cryfree
2021-12-01 02:06
1 reply
2021-12-01 02:06
GOATED analysis as always 👍
2021-12-01 02:00
1 reply
#143
NAF | 
United States dyragu
np mens)))
2021-12-01 02:05
2021 Navi >>> 2008 mTw Navi would absolutely dumpster mTw. mTw in 2008 was incredibly behind in the CS:GO meta, due to it not existing at the time. Additionally, even if CS:GO had existed, their incredibly old PCs would not be able to run the game.
2021-12-01 02:11
1 reply
#148
NAF | 
United States dyragu
wat lol
2021-12-01 02:06
#153
 | 
Canada firtlast
by the time i finish reading ence will win a major
2021-12-01 02:14
6 replies
#155
NAF | 
United States dyragu
which iteration of ence lol
2021-12-01 02:15
5 replies
#156
 | 
Canada firtlast
the entropy of the universe makes it inevitably enigmatic
2021-12-01 02:16
2 replies
Entropiq?
2021-12-01 02:22
1 reply
#189
 | 
Canada firtlast
more like tent biopic
2021-12-01 02:33
#157
 | 
Canada firtlast
TLDR: idk
2021-12-01 02:17
1 reply
#158
NAF | 
United States dyragu
the realms of universe compels you oh wise one
2021-12-01 02:17
You have to be absolutely delusional to think that this year's Na'Vi is better than 2018 Astralis. They have a long way to go before they can become the best CS:GO team of all time. Hell, let alone 2015 Fnatic and 2016-17 LG/SK, they haven't even surpassed G5 VP. They do have the pound-for-pound greatest to ever touch the game in s1mple, but they still have a long way to go.
2021-12-01 02:21
2 replies
#197
NAF | 
United States dyragu
damn you really didnt read the thread. i don't have time to explain to the 50th person lol
2021-12-01 02:45
#199
NAF | 
United States dyragu
hint read the disclaimer dumbass
2021-12-01 02:46
Read all of it and wanted to say nice analysis and thanks for the effort brother
2021-12-01 02:26
1 reply
#198
NAF | 
United States dyragu
np hair pro lover! ehhe
2021-12-01 02:46
Thanks for the long read bro, I appreciate the effort and love you show for CSGO!
2021-12-01 02:59
1 reply
#203
NAF | 
United States dyragu
LOVE CS YEAHHH
2021-12-03 19:43
#204
NAF | 
United States dyragu
bumping to see the chaos that will ensue. lol
2021-12-07 19:07
#205
 | 
Sweden PwnarN
sorry to say it but, NaVi would've gotten shit at against Astralis. Easy 2-0 for EZSTRALIS
2021-12-07 19:19
#206
 | 
Brazil infatico
Very cool post.
2021-12-07 19:19
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