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Has NiKo surpassed coldzera?
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Ukraine Valta 
Has NiKo surpassed coldzera in alltime player rankings? cold used to be ahead of him in 2016, 2017 etc but he fell off after 2019 while NiKo has been good in 2016-2021
2021-12-05 13:19
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#1
STYKO | 
Norway AdNiB
No Coldzera's prime was more dominant + more impactful for his team.
2021-12-05 13:20
69 replies
idk. coldzera had also very strong mates. fer was a monster and fallen hit every shot with his awp.
2021-12-05 13:22
42 replies
Its not cold problem His peak was higher than Niko in terms of impact on team acheivments.
2021-12-05 13:26
38 replies
#49
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Bangladesh Santho
hahaha coldzera is top 1 but in overrated bots rankings Literally got some lucky trophies when scene was in the highest dip in history with his highest funny 1.18 rating vs top 5 (so lower than b1t already has on lan). Even b1t already is better than cold in his prime not to mention NiKo. Fuck, even zonic-coach would outplay cold in his prime
2021-12-06 13:53
32 replies
Scene was in highest dip Bit have higher rating I have bad news for you Scene now is the weakest scene ever Vitality Who is way weaker than they were before reach top stages Na have no scene Some br nonamers count as contenees for trophies, when they literally 5 times worse than immortals on krakow and so on Bit playing vs shit opposition He Will be nowhere without mates Cold at least counted as star even after washing up
2021-12-06 14:27
15 replies
#67
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Bangladesh Santho
2021-12-08 16:18
+1 competition right now is the weakest
2021-12-08 16:44
4 replies
#98
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Europe JohnnyPayn
thats why astralis gets 16;1d by fkn spirit with their uber roster
2021-12-08 18:10
Right now its a bit weird because everyone changes rosters yes. But why do they change rosters that were good before? Because thats their only chance to beat NaVi. The level of play this year was certainly far higher than the years before
2021-12-09 02:34
2 replies
Lol delusional
2021-12-09 21:19
1 reply
Flair checks out
2021-12-09 21:20
Opposition has actually by far been the hardest in the last 2 years. Due to less travel time and new teams coming up theres a constant change ans improvement in strats. This only changed recently because the old top teams arent able to win tournaments due to NaVi and Gambit for example being super strong and consistent. Thats why everyone changes rosters now, not because the old teams didnt work but bc they need more power to become top 1. Sure there are some exceptions but the level of strats has increased massively in the last year and strats/meta is changing rapidly
2021-12-09 02:29
7 replies
#135
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Uzbekistan R_Sick
Finally someone with a sane mind
2021-12-09 07:30
> level of strats has increased massively in the last year I don’t get it. How do you measure that? I understand when people say that in 2014 prize pool was 40k and top salary was 1k month comparing to 500+ and 25j for top players - that’s some metrics. And this metrics indirectly tells us that competition is harder now. But compare with Col times? Idk, money is almost the same for 2017/2021 for example, no? And if money is the same how else can you prove this argument?
2021-12-15 23:34
1 reply
Look at the stats of utility usage. Gambit and VP have brought in their own systems in the last year which were very quickly copied by other teams, which was stated by IGLs in their interviews/videos, same for NaVis' strats. These CIS teams brought in a way more tactical and slow, less emotional playstyle which was not popular before. Player salary has nothing to do with strategies. The mibr roster would probably be the best example for that. If you wanna measure it by money, money can pay for analysts which will find new strategies also and that aspect has increased in the last few years rapidly. There are bigger Coaching Staff teams nowadays, similar to football, not as big yet but it will probably get there. Also the game is constantly evolving as long as there is a reason to do so, which in this case is the competitiveness and the money, each year the level of quality is increasing, not just this year
2021-12-17 00:34
#233
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United Kingdom OllieUK
Okay let me give another perspective on this. Youre saying competition is stronger now that ever. Why are teams picking up literal no namers if thats the case. In the top 5 teams 1. Navi (B1t, Perfecto) both great players but who the fuck were they 2. Vitality (Kyojin) where the fuck this guy even come from 3. M0nesy dude has never played an official vs a top 20 team 4. Gambit ITS WAS AN ACADEMY TEAM!!!! 5. NiP had 2 academy players on the roster in ZTR and LNZ Where is the NA scene. Its non existant anymore. NA has 0 chances on winning an event let. An entire region is gone. BR has no good teams either in the same position as NA except has a prospering tier 2 scene. Navi are the only legit team in the entire scene right now the others are just toss ups. This is the least competitive scene we have had in CSGO. Even back in 2015 you had a solid top 10. Now who the fuck do we have 1. Navi stomping theyre legit 2. Vitality a dead team walking 3. G2 about to sign an academy player had a dude playing awp who sucks because he is a rifler 4. Gambit academy team 5. NiP just dev1ce and a bunch of low tier 1 players 6. Heroic who are complete wack at the minute and bombed out last in the previous 2 tournaments 7. Virtus Pro who have looked extremely shaky recently 8. Faze who cant even play online 9. Astralis who have a dog shit awper and xyp9x in career worst form 10. Entropiq who lets be real are a tier 2 team idk how they made top 10 realistically Rant over Tldr: The scene is fucking shit basically navi is the only solid team. The fact that all these teams are signing academy players shows how bad competition is right now and honestly 2015 had a better top 10 of competition. Maybe the teams werent as good as teams now but they were definitely way closer to each others skill levels and werent afraid of signing big names now they just sign the cheapest players possible like being realistic B1t turned out to be great but when he first joined Navi main team he was shit and they shouldve looked at buyouts
2021-12-15 23:36
3 replies
At the minute perhaps but look back at the major. NaVi were favourites yes but apart from them the playing field was super even, take Entropiq and CPHF for example. Perfecto was experienced in CIS teams and known there before, B1t had very good stats in the academy team and played with them for a while so they knew what to expect. Now why the fuck would a team ever take an experienced but washed pro into a team instead of giving a new, much more talented and hungry player the chance to prove himself, especially if you have already set up a good system with experienced players to support the new one. It's not smart looking into the future and probably not for the present either. These roster moves of teams consistently picking up the same old big names for a few months to just find out why they were kicked from their last team have hopefully finally stopped. Gambit won their way through the entire Tier 2 scene, literally stomped through tournaments in the year prior, why should they not have success in the Tier 1 scene? Also online definitely helped them in the start to gain some confidence. NA is not competitive yeah. But it hasn't been for ages, there were usually only like 10 top level players on usually 2, maybe 3 teams. And those usually played in Europe most of the time, sometimes with good success, sometimes not so much. But I think thats a problem for another topic. Liquid are still competitive, just shaky. But count the past NA teams together, there weren't many successfull ones in the last few years and instead this year there are lots of new EU and CIS teams in their place. BR has Godsent who are very promising, but apart from them you're right. But only the old SK/IMT were ever consistently at the top and that probably won't happen again which has been clear for a while now, not just this year. G2 played good cs, no matter which AWPer they had this year. Vitality might be going for roster changes but only because they want to win the next major, with their current roster they could be able to do that too but chances aren't too great either. For Gambit: sooo young players can never get to the top? gtfo thats retarded af, literally doesn't make sense. They have an experienced Team around them and Hobbit, former major winner and 4 very talented players who also seem to be pretty smart and very hardworking. Why on earth wouldn't they be successful? NiP has one of the best current IGLs, a decent system and a big ORG behind them, it's certainly their best lineup in years even though improvements could be made Heroic is kind of inconsistent yes but also have 5 players who could be star players on any normal team and good strats and teamwork. They played pretty decent over the entire year and brought in their own playstyle VP have one of the most talented squads out there, Yekindar literal god considering its pretty much his first 12months, they have an experienced core and apparently a good system, their playstyle is quite questionable FaZe is probably not a Top 10 team this year, Astralis might not be either and Entropiq certainly isnt Why on earth would an org not sign an academy player instead of paying 5x the money for someone like flamie or coldzera who has failed their previous teams massively. Look at Col, literally doing the roster changes you'd like and dying pretty much immediately. They got to a good level by giving young upcoming players a chance and got to the top even, then lots of things went wrong for different reasons. Teams are afraid of signing big players? I think youre not following the scene at all. The biggest roster changes of all time are about to happen in the winter break with lots of recognizeable names. Last year Dev1ce changed teams, Niko changed Teams, both probably top 5 of cs ever. Nobody right in their mind would change their roster massively this summer right before the most important major, especially the way RMR points are distributed. Thinking implementing a new player will not shortly lower their form is unrealistic, nobody is the perfect replacement right away, also s1mple has stated they mistakes in the way they implemented B1t, giving him the wrong roles etc. Literally almost all the rookies this year were successful, idk what you're talking about. B1t is just the prime example. All 4 of Gambits young players, Yekindar, Broky, Misutaaa, mezii, CPHF, hades, Godsent, Entropiq, Spinx, Bymas was the mouz' best player at the major, and so on. And there are so many more who have come up in the recent few years who have completely stunned the scene, take zywoo and ropz for example, why on earth would you get a 1.6 pro these days who was kicked out of his old teams for not performing well? If you wanna watch "big names" stealing paychecks, playing the 150th game against the same old opponents without any new strats go watch NA "soccer" or Valorant I guess.
2021-12-17 01:07
+1 and JW bestest
2021-12-17 01:40
+1 Also, Furia with a COACH destroyed NIP
2021-12-17 02:51
+111
2021-12-09 14:59
#60
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Papua New Guinea AlphaSwede
"lucky trophies" Damn, he has the highest luck in the history of mankind then
2021-12-06 14:45
8 replies
lol yeah
2021-12-06 16:41
#66
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Bangladesh Santho
just a fluke, he is the only 'top 1' player in csgo history who degraded from being 'the best' to being tier 2 pro. How would you explain this? s1mple, zywoo, NiKo, device even f0rest all of them are good for years. Also I didn't even see his name in 2012-2015 and for example s1mple already played back then in HR or Flipside and carried those teams You can say that legends like GTR or Olof are bad now as well but GTR is 31 years old and Olof is 29 years old (30 in january), not 27 like cold (and he is bad for at least a year already, so since he was 25-26)
2021-12-08 16:20
6 replies
#101
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Brazil Anarchybr
you forgot kennyS? JW?
2021-12-08 18:38
1 reply
Olof, get_right... Literally everyone
2021-12-09 02:03
"just a fluke" lmao stop. he was the best player in the world for 2 years straight.
2021-12-09 14:55
1 reply
This "Santho" is a joke. Anyone who saw Coldzera in 2016-2018 saw an absolute beast of this game. 2x majors, 2x MVP majors, if that is impressive today, imagine in 2016-2017. Players like Olof, Flusha, Cold, KennyS, F0rest and Get_Right it's just another level.
2021-12-15 20:58
Don’t disrespect cold, he was good and consistent until 2019 or even 2020 and only then he cracked. It was a decent run with shit environment and circumstances
2021-12-15 23:36
that doesnt matter, his achievments are so much better than nikos that he gotta be above him, some players lose love for the game or get worse earlier that dont take away his achievments
2021-12-17 00:43
"with his highest funny 1.18 rating" You probably didnt follow the scene back then, but you cant compare rating 2.0 with rating 1.0. 1.18 with rating 1.0 was very good.
2021-12-08 17:26
1 reply
rating 1.0 was based on kills and deaths, not important things like impact and KAST
2021-12-09 16:04
Only Navi is consitenly great these days while rest of the team can be great 1 day shit another. Sk while wasnt winning as much as Navi, but they were contenders in every tournament and were best for 2 years straight. In fact there was mostly 2015 that was very competitve.
2021-12-08 18:17
4 replies
Thats only the case because the level has risen extremely high and its very strat dependant these days. If youre prepared you smash ur opponent, if you didnt have time to prep for match2 you get smashed Not saying the sk level was low or anything but evidently the play level this year is the highest its ever been
2021-12-09 02:31
3 replies
#137
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Uzbekistan R_Sick
+1
2021-12-09 07:32
> the level has risen extremely high and its very strat dependant these days Any proof of that statement?
2021-12-15 23:38
1 reply
Well look at some of the upsets at the major. Originally Tier 2 teams beat the established teams due to better preparation. Teams that don't have time to prac get demolished, take NaVi vs Liquid at Blast rn for example. Tier 1 teams can't just outgun Tier 2 teams all the time anymore, take a look at some of the talents of these rosters. Lots of teams which were tier 2 last year, now consistently play well at t1 events, the gap isn't that big anymore, it's always faster to learn from someone else than finding out things on your own. Many of these teams have staff members who worked for some legendary teams before. These kind of things are hard to state by numbers because you'd need to have lots of background knowledge about teams, which is hard to gather I think
2021-12-17 01:12
#57
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Portugal cyn1cal
Niko's impact is bigger, but cold has more achivements because he had a great team lol
2021-12-06 14:39
1 reply
impact on what no trophies -> no impact you could be beast in group stage but who cares
2021-12-06 16:38
Achievements, yes, but impact, far from it. There is not a single rifler and probably only 1 AWP er that is even close to NiKo's impact in games.
2021-12-09 07:29
1 reply
Coldzera in 2016 is just the best riffler of all-time GTR also better than Niko if we talk about peak(look his stats in 2013) But, if we talk about being good with consistency, Niko is the best
2021-12-17 02:57
newfag
2021-12-09 15:02
Plus, one must take into account the fact that TACO often supported coldzera, on the basis of which he destroyed. I do not want to say that without TACO he would be nothing, just 50% of the coldzera's incredible success was in the support of TACO, while Niko was more individual.
2021-12-05 13:28
2 replies
During FaZe 2017-2018 run Rain was Niko's bitch
2021-12-06 13:56
1 reply
#105
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United Kingdom fal36
But he wasnt though 4th best player in 2017 and 18th best player in 2018 Not possible to get those rankings playing in the roles taco had on sk
2021-12-09 01:49
Niko is good but he is not on level to get MVPs while not winning Thats why he could not be better than cold you must have some major acheievments with same level of play or be simply better by a mile. Cold was too good, so niko should drop 30 frags in every match to outshine him without trophies
2021-12-05 13:25
5 replies
#50
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Bangladesh Santho
team with 1 s1mple and 4 random faceit players would not be better than with 5 average pro players and would get rekt 0:16. That doesn't mean that s1mple is not better than any of those 5 pros who win 16:0, just they have better team and CS:GO is a TEAM game, where you need to have strong team in order to win trophies. s1mple now got b1t, electronic and perfecto and NaVi are unstoppable. Change b1t to flamie and they would lose major vs G2 (they would not even get into finals because b1t carried hard in early stages) and it wouldn't matter that s1mple dropped 72 bombs in 2 maps
2021-12-06 13:56
1 reply
I dont understand why you think that bit is s1mple and flamie is average pro comparing to him Flamie make it to 3 finals + how da faq this connected to cold-niko then cold is Best Major player by stats
2021-12-06 14:37
hltv.org/stats/players/3741/niko?startDa.. 95 adr basically drops 30 every game
2021-12-10 19:18
2 replies
1118/48 = 23.29 I think its not 30, its good but not that good
2021-12-13 15:09
1 reply
Assuming every match goes 30 rounds ofc
2021-12-14 01:30
#10
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Finland Lushkan
More impacful? Are you smoking crack? Coldzera was basically a zywoo before zywoo, just a pretty good aimer. Ultimately it was FalleN and fer who made sk work. hltv.org/stats/lineup/players?lineup=921..
2021-12-05 13:28
3 replies
"Coldzera was basically a zywoo before zywoo, just a pretty good aimer." What is that supposed to mean?
2021-12-05 13:35
2 replies
That he liked burgers until he found myprotein and started to get fit/lose skill. Hope zywho never ever turn fit.
2021-12-08 16:29
1 reply
+1 fat players > skinny players
2021-12-09 16:10
#18
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Brazil tmmart_
isnt because coldzera's team was worse than niko's team is? I mean, after he joined international organizations he didn't look that good anymore. but it's true, compared to 2016/2017 players he was really good, but cs changed a lot, today I don't think he is this impactful at all.
2021-12-05 13:35
#25
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Uzbekistan R_Sick
Coldzera was on a great team, just like current s1mple, while NiKo have always been backpack carrying his teammates (s1mple as well untill recently). Coldzera was a lurker/baiter which is ok stylistically since it produced great results, but it wasn't as impactful as NiKo on his entries. Coldzera is undoubtedly a deserved legend, but if you compare him to NiKo, it is like comparing sh1ro or dev1ce to s1mple.
2021-12-06 12:58
You've gotta be kidding me?
2021-12-06 13:44
i agree i guess, but you can't have more impact than niko in major playoffs, literally best opener rifler, they didn't even need jackz (most opening kills for g2)
2021-12-08 17:21
I think prime coldzera was the biggest baiter
2021-12-08 17:38
coldzera never peformed well after leaving mibr/sk/lg he has to have taco, fer, fallen in the team to peform niko is the overall better player, he can fit into different systems from mousesports shittiness to faze with kio and allu to the suepr team to adren to neo to the one with cold and broky to g2 with nexa he has never dipped in peformacne drastically like cold not too mention every team niko was on, it was a top 10 team or were dangerous like this currentg2 coldzera was good for 3.3 years then sucked and only stayed in the faze roster collecting money and dipping more in peformance
2021-12-09 01:59
1 reply
He changed his role for being a support since then.
2021-12-09 15:06
coldzera didnt have to compete with s1mple and zywoo, and niko has rarely had a good team around him for a long period of time
2021-12-09 02:20
2 replies
Well, Coldzera just oblitered s1mple in both majors of 2016, and i think is easier deal with ZywOo+4 bots(with all respect, but they aren't good) than deal with Astralis or Virtus.Pro with 5 good players
2021-12-17 03:08
1 reply
NiKo and s1mple have been putting up super star numbers relatively consistently for their entire careers, approaching 6 years now. Coldzera never found that level of consistency or dominance, and during his dominance, he always had a competent team behind him. The reason the scene is in such flux atm is exactly because of how good NaVi is. This happens often where there's a dominant team. other teams change and shift to try and compete better.
2021-12-17 23:32
#160
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Latvia Sabito
Coldzera had TACO Cold never was more skilled than s1mple or NiKo etc. even during his prime NiKo has long surpassed cold individually
2021-12-09 15:54
3 replies
niko has the rest of g2
2021-12-10 17:01
2 replies
#191
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Latvia Sabito
No, the rest of the G2 has NiKo Without him they would immediately drop out of the top5
2021-12-10 17:16
1 reply
we where looking at it from a player perspective?
2021-12-10 19:02
#217
RpK | 
France HippzZ
+1
2021-12-14 01:52
just cuz team was the best bro, individually he was better always was. his top 2's are not fair at all
2021-12-15 23:37
#2
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Europe robo1234
Niko 0 majors, coldzera 2 No.
2021-12-05 13:20
18 replies
#4
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Ukraine Valta
so coldzera > s1mple ?
2021-12-05 13:21
9 replies
#5
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Europe robo1234
Off course.
2021-12-05 13:21
8 replies
pronax 3 majors cold 2 majors pronax > coldzera
2021-12-05 13:29
5 replies
#30
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Brazil Nicolito
coldzera 2 major 2 major mvp 2 top 1 lots of mvps > pronax 3 major 0 major mvp 0 top 1
2021-12-06 13:27
3 replies
Device 4 major 2 major mvp lots of mvps > coldzero
2021-12-08 16:44
2 replies
#78
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Brazil Nicolito
i agree with you, i only said compared to NiKo and Pronax, read again.
2021-12-08 16:45
#215
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Europe DiVbAnG
i will give u 10000 euro if u find someone who thinks cold > device in all time rankings
2021-12-14 01:45
botnax carried by triple gods
2021-12-08 17:22
ahah lmfao
2021-12-08 17:21
then devilwalk>niko/zywoo
2021-12-17 03:38
TACO > s1mple ?
2021-12-06 13:24
2 replies
#62
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Brazil buddobom
kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
2021-12-06 14:46
1 reply
nah, Taco 2 Majors but no Major MVP, s1mple 1 Major and 1 Major MVP so s1mple > Taco
2021-12-15 23:38
Pronax > s1mple?
2021-12-06 13:25
4 replies
#32
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Europe robo1234
Off course
2021-12-06 13:29
2 replies
#36
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Brazil bigodisney
Pronax>taco>cold>s1mple>Niko Ez
2021-12-06 13:34
1 reply
#41
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Europe robo1234
Yes, niko has 0 Majors like just about everyone on hltv. G2 can take a random hltv user and get similar results.
2021-12-06 13:41
#71
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Bosnia and Herzegovina Biske
low tier bait from this guy ignore
2021-12-08 16:32
no major yet , nor top 1 placements on HLTV Top 20 , nor that many impressive tournament wins either. Cold still ahead , all things considered
2021-12-05 13:21
8 replies
The pure fact that NiKo is still being talked about as one of the best players and is considered the best rifle in the game should be enough. NiKo has longevity, cold doesn't.
2021-12-05 13:26
7 replies
So device>niko
2021-12-05 13:28
2 replies
Device has longevity, tiltles, majors and MVPs. So in the list of alltime bests, device>niko
2021-12-05 13:29
Of course who the fuck would say otherwise
2021-12-09 02:21
no it shouldnt be enough , longevity sure is a factor in determining which player is better over another but so are many others where Cold outshines him. NiKo is undoubtedly the best rifler atm but people also seem to have forgotten how fucking good Cold was too , has more team and individual accomplishments as well.
2021-12-05 13:28
3 replies
People also forget that the only reason 2017 NiKo wasn't top 1 were lack of titles. Compare NiKo and cold in 2017 and you will quickly realise just how close it was. S1mple statisticaly was a better player than both of them. Coldzera had consistancy and a good team around him.He was the best player at his peak but it was nothing game breaking like people think.
2021-12-05 13:33
1 reply
#266
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United Arab Emirates p1peb0mb
U mean lack of mvp and evps compared to cold.
2021-12-17 05:09
NiKo was better rifler even in 2016-2017 bruhhh XD, what you smokin? He only lacked achievements which stopped him from getting the top 1. And cold got washed up in 2 years while NiKo is still a god after 5 years. And if I start with the baiting part that'll be never ending considering all the baiting coldzera did during his prime. He is still the biggest baiter CSGO has ever seen
2021-12-10 17:12
#11
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Brazil MimAcher
Cold is the best rookue has touched this game. Coldeus
2021-12-05 13:28
4 replies
#21
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Ukraine Valta
rookue?
2021-12-06 12:14
1 reply
#140
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Uzbekistan R_Sick
Roku
2021-12-09 07:36
ZywOo?? He started to years before and won 2x top 1 way before Coldzera. He's even more consistent in the long-term.
2021-12-09 15:10
1 reply
#175
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Mozambique CRMN1
I don't think you understand what rookie is. ZywOo equaled coldzera by winning two #1 back-to-back on his first 2 years (in tier 1). How did ZywOo start winning top 1s way before cold?
2021-12-10 09:21
#20
catgirl | 
Trinidad and Tobago r41
niko 0 major 0 top 1 so no
2021-12-05 13:36
it was easy for turretzera to hold angles when fer and fallen create so much space around the map.
2021-12-06 12:15
cold has 2 majors both mvp and also 2 times top 1 niko 0 major and 0 top 1 /closed
2021-12-06 12:18
#24
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Sweden SamBbbb
NiKo is currently a better player and it will most likely stay that way. But Coldzera is way above NiKo in achievements and overall rankings.
2021-12-06 12:16
3 replies
+1
2021-12-06 14:46
+1, the best answer to this thread.
2021-12-08 16:38
#248
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Italy steven513
+1
2021-12-17 01:40
#26
b1t | 
Russia JB97
Coldzera: 2 major + mvp 2 best player Niko: ... ...
2021-12-06 13:00
yes longevity > peak. People who say olof/cold are GOATs are deluded
2021-12-06 13:03
coldzera is the most overrated player. Lack of achievement and fell off the hardest out of any "legend" And as far as eye test is concerned, he wasn't even that good
2021-12-06 13:29
6 replies
#43
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Finland HARD4ENCE
I disagree with lack of achievement but his peak was pretty short. He was there basically for 2 years and after that nowhere to be found.
2021-12-06 13:44
4 replies
#48
ZywOo | 
Brazil PqSxd
3 years, 2018 was pretty decent for him, even playing one month with his hand injury
2021-12-06 13:51
3 replies
Being #10 means that year can not be taken into consideration talking about the peak of someone who supposed to be a goat, if you are not top5 that year you were not even close to being the very best, device was top5 player for 7 years, NiKo is now top5 player for his 4th year, s1mple has been top5 player for 5 years, coldzera only has 2 times top5, that's a tiny peak, ZywOo already has a longer stay at the very top by now, 3rd year top5 player. And nobody of ZywOo NiKo or s1mple is slowing down, and device maybe will have a better year next year as well. But coldzera is done, he is nothing more than an average site anchor, and has been for years now. He went to the top instantly and fell off again just as fast, same as olof, the worst "contestant" for goat
2021-12-08 17:16
2 replies
well, being #10 while playing with an wrist injury and also in a team with a lot of changes...
2021-12-09 01:42
#176
 | 
Mozambique CRMN1
He was #10 on a team that was far from tier 1. 2018 was the year MIBR fell hard and the won absolutely nothing and he was basically a one-man-army. All things considered it's still pretty impressive for me.
2021-12-10 09:23
"fell off the hardest" "most overrated player" Olof laughing in the background. "wasn't even that good as far as eye test is concerned" dropped 43 against prime 2018 s1mple.
2021-12-06 13:48
Different roles so its hard to say
2021-12-06 13:30
1 reply
Its like comparing Lewandowski (pure clinical finisher = NiKo) to Neymar (who can do everything on the wing, but will never be as clinical = cold)
2021-12-06 13:32
coldzera 2 majors
2021-12-06 13:32
imagine Messi or Ronaldo were only at their peak for 2 seasons, you would get laughed at if you mentioned them as GOAT, same goes for coldzera, his peak was amazing, even tho it was nowhere near the individual peak of s1mple and ZywOo and also behind device in 2018, and after 2 years at the top he was never heard from again, no ability to bounce back, did not grow with the meta, just became one of the most predictable players with aim that is no better than any support player on a top20 team. If you are only at the top for a fragment of the average GOAT candidate you automatically fall away from the picture, NiKo has been a top5 player for the 4th time this year and was top10 level player twice as well, coldzera was top5 level player 2x and only once top10. The only difference is coldzera was 0.01 higher rated then NiKo so he got #1 and NiKo got #2 but when NiKo get's #5 and coldzera gets #287 people don't seem to think that's a way bigger tell as to who is better lmao
2021-12-06 13:35
1 reply
True, this is the best explanation of how NiKo is better
2021-12-10 17:13
#39
 | 
North America cmohr
In terms of skill, yes undeniably NiKo is better. Coldzera peaked for like 3 years and then fell off completely. NiKo is the best rifler to ever play. The only thing stopping him from having 2+ majors like Cold is teammates. NiKo basically has to be on an international team because there is no Bosnian scene. Coldzera was in the best scene in the world at the time, with prime Fallen and fer with Taco as the best support player in the world and they all spoke the same language. NiKo has had only washed pros on his team his entire career, and when he did have halfway decent teammates on FaZe they were literally rounds away from a major. NiKo is a hard carry, Cold was a role player.
2021-12-06 13:39
2 replies
#47
ZywOo | 
Brazil PqSxd
cold played support and lurker, also anchor and rotator for SK, Felps entry in the caused a lot of roles changes bcz of him and fer being super agressive, and Boltz too for being to passive.
2021-12-06 13:49
#79
 | 
Spain desKalabro
+1000 trust this guy.
2021-12-08 16:47
#40
 | 
Europe Pflatzi
Yes he has, statwise qnd skillwise
2021-12-06 13:40
#44
 | 
Bosnia and Herzegovina Foxxyownz
niko skillwise far better
2021-12-06 13:45
1 reply
fax
2021-12-06 13:56
#45
ZywOo | 
Brazil PqSxd
niko unfortunately has not a lot of trophies and never was a top1 or major mvp, but he is a beast and if he get 1 major, 1 top1 or 1 major mvp then yes
2021-12-06 13:47
hltv.org/stats/players/compare/9216/cold.. i guess you can say that. but overall very similar indeed
2021-12-06 13:55
#54
 | 
Romania paul_chris
Niko individual skill > Cold individual skill Cold was great but as other said he had greater support from all members which gave him many advantages over Niko. You can clearly see without them Cold had far less to show while Niko is top 5 in any season.
2021-12-06 13:56
cold right now = much worse than niko cold in prime = equal in skill/ability and much more accomplished due to his surrounding team(s)
2021-12-06 14:44
When we talk of surpassing a player, we need to take their entire careers into account. Almost every professional player has higher longevity than Coldzera. That is the only way Niko takes this debate. Otherwise, it's not even comparable: Coldzera - 2 Top1, 2 Majors, 2 Major MVPs, 8 total MVPs, 15 total Trophies, 1 Esports Player of the year award, 1 Graffiti Niko - 0 Top1, 0 Majors, 0 Major MVPs, 7 total MVPs, 11 total Trophies, 0 awards, 0 graffitis
2021-12-06 14:52
1 reply
last 2 categories don't really matter imo. esports award is legit a popularity contest.
2021-12-09 03:49
right now? yes of course. all time? no
2021-12-08 16:19
Niko has always been a better individual player, the fact that he's still rising and Coldzera has been forgotten says a lot
2021-12-08 16:23
Mechanically Niko was way better.
2021-12-08 16:34
I think Niko is better but cold has the resume to beat Nikos dick
2021-12-08 16:41
Coldzera: 2 major 2 major mvp 2 top 1 hltv Niko: 0 0 0
2021-12-08 16:43
11 replies
Cool, but G2 isn't dominant and he still is better in every aspect than Cold))))) Cold had a team that was dominating)) Is G2 dominating? No, did Luminosity/SK have competition in 2016/2017? Like real competition? Not really, only FaZe and Astralis (both partly)
2021-12-08 17:35
10 replies
sk dominated cos of cold tho and niko had his chances to dominate but fucked up so many times lol
2021-12-09 03:47
1 reply
Not really...
2021-12-10 09:04
Faze lost all bo3 to SK Niko lost almost all x1s to cold xaxaxa Not even close
2021-12-09 15:10
6 replies
FaZe didn't lose every match and btw NiKo won more 1v1s vs Coldzera, kekw
2021-12-10 09:05
4 replies
They lost all bo3 matches they played in 2017 vs SK
2021-12-10 13:38
3 replies
Cool, but NiKo still outaimed cold
2021-12-10 16:32
2 replies
1 reply
Bruh, shows me coldzera peeking with an advantage, lol
2021-12-10 19:13
Check adr + impact + rating of NiKo in big events in 2016/2017 Then check impact+adr+rating of Cold in big events in 2016/2017 And then tell me whos the better player)
2021-12-10 09:13
SK Gaming wasn't dominating, they chocked so hard lots of tournaments.
2021-12-09 15:13
baitzera washed up NiKo = more talent, better player
2021-12-08 16:50
Lol NiKo surpassed coldzera long time ago...
2021-12-08 17:24
2 replies
Ye
2021-12-08 17:35
+1 I don't understand how this is even a question
2021-12-10 19:23
NiKo is probably more skilled overall but coldzera's prime was better since he was able to achieve 2 #1s and 2 Majors and also the MVP of both Majors they won
2021-12-08 17:35
Hell nah lol Botko needs to prove he can not choke in a major first
2021-12-08 17:37
NiKo has been better than cold since 2014
2021-12-08 17:51
1 reply
no
2021-12-09 03:47
#99
 | 
Romania wadd
Niko is peeking rn, maybe 2022 could be his year
2021-12-08 18:14
1 reply
#251
 | 
Italy steven513
peaking*
2021-12-17 01:50
NiKo is the far better player and I love watching him clicking heads, especially if it's against the best players in the world, s1mple and ZywOo. He's so consistent, he surely has overtaken coldzera. Major wins are not everything, his individual skill with rifles is unmatched.
2021-12-08 19:47
3 replies
Yeah, the only argument of this guy is "bUt cOlD wOn 2 mAJoRs aNd gOt 1 mVp"
2021-12-09 07:25
1 reply
actually its 2 mvps and 2 times in a roll top1, and the fact that niko never won a final against cold.
2021-12-09 15:07
He used to lose all x1 against cold on the past xaxaxaa
2021-12-09 15:04
There hasnt been a single second in history of Counter Strike where coldzera was a better player than NiKo,rofl
2021-12-09 02:04
2 replies
watch every sk vs faze match from 2017 and tell me how many bo3s faze win
2021-12-09 03:46
1 reply
+1
2021-12-17 02:43
coldzera reminds me of dev1ce too much, as soon as they leave their top 1 team they completely crumble and become irrelevant. sets them completely apart from s1mple/zywoo/niko
2021-12-09 02:12
cold as his peak was without a doubt the best in the world. niko has never been undisputed number 1
2021-12-09 02:13
I still favor coldzera in all time ranking but niko is close for sure
2021-12-09 02:13
Cold was decent for 2 years and a half with good teammates which were all on the same page speaking the same language. Niko was incredibly good for years and there's no Sign of slowing down. But he doesn't have the luxury of having a good lineup speaking his native language. He's far better than cold and has been since 2018 better than him in everything. Skillwise he always was better as well from the start
2021-12-09 02:16
5 replies
"decent for 2 years and a half" literally the best player in those 2 years and you call him decent "niko was incredibly good for years" he was still ranked lower than cold for 2 of those years and statistically worse than cold but you call him incredibly good. keep in mind his level didn't improve. nikos peak was 2018/17 which was lower than colds peak and he hasn't been as good on a year to year basis ever since. come on pal u gotta hide ur bias better hahahahaa since 2017, cold has only played on a PT speaking team for only a few months then benched himself to play with NiKo. ure talking like cold dropped off during the period when he was speaking PT but it was when he was in an English speaking team. agree on the last statement tho. too bad niko still doesn't have enough accolades to justify being a top 5 goat contender.
2021-12-09 03:45
4 replies
Hard to compare, if you're at least decent you're bound to have better stats having the good team around you that win stuff regularly. And I don't agree that cold's peak was ever higher than NiKo's, NiKo whilst in far worse conditions found ways to either win games or impress viewers with his individual skill. Sole fact that he didn't disappear but kept floating around his peak form, especially nowadays, is a pretty clear indicator that he can do a lot more than be a perfect fifth for the system. To me personally it's no discussion and it doesn't matter a bit how many trophies cold has got, there's reason to everything.
2021-12-09 03:47
3 replies
what I mean is the statistic which is the hltv ratings. niko didn't beat cold in 2017 or 2016. I think NiKo playing at his best is probably on par or better than Cold. I think you're exaggerating by far worse conditions tho. NiKo had guardian as his AWPer aka the best awper money can buy except kennyS (in 2017), karrigan as his IGL who is now a goat contender, rain as an entry player (not washed) and fucking community consensus goat contender olofmeister (who was still a good player on fnatic) as another teammate as well doing a few bitch roles. he definitely wasn't in bad hands if you consider that SK in 2017 had a dodgy inferno, several role clashes with felps and fer, played without a coach and/or analyst and with a stand in for a major during cold's peak stretch of form he had something like a 1.35 or some shit in terms of rating and that's with all these issues going on.
2021-12-09 04:01
2 replies
Yeah I don't argue about that 2017 campaign, I was having the infamous mouz lineup where NiKo did all he could and still getting not much in return on mind. I didn't mean to belittle cold like that, of course he wasn't just another player and he's the kind to be smarter than flashier I think. But after all said and done, all pages are read and considered, I still think NiKo was and is a better player. Cold has a huge argument with his trophy cabinet but that should be divided and evened out among all five but cold having a few of those top 1 entries is hard to beat. But still, in my little world NiKo was more impressive!
2021-12-09 04:49
#230
 | 
Europe 90ieskid
I don't think Guardian was better awper than Fallen back then, or karrigan the better igler than Fallen, but again, the key here is the team chemistry. Cs, like many other games and sports, is a heavily team-based game. Every, even the tiniest piece, has to come together. In that sense, national teams were always better, it's not only the same language and culture imo, but also the fellowship and trust. While they might be good friends and have good relationships in faze back then, it's not the same "ties" like in 1 nation teams.
2021-12-15 23:05
coldzera was never better than niko
2021-12-09 02:17
3 replies
Signed up 2021-11-03
2021-12-09 03:34
2 replies
Signed up 2021-11-14
2021-12-09 20:13
1 reply
lol
2021-12-10 19:26
Achievements? NO Performance and skill? by a mile.
2021-12-09 02:19
In rating and achievements in a respective year, no Can NiKo beat him now, yes
2021-12-09 03:50
#131
 | 
Argentina atriX^
The clearest distinction between them is that cold was super passive and NiKo is much more aggressive and therefore makes a lot of space for his team. That's why cold's impact rating is nowhere near NiKo's. cold's peak multikill %s are a tad bit higher. The last couple of months lead me to believe that NiKo has not peaked yet. Idk, you'd have to look at every stat and analyze. Personally, I lean towards NiKo. Peak cold had a great team beside him but NiKo, aside from FaZe 2018, hasn't had teams to that same degree. Cold peaked quickly and took a dive (at the same time his team did), NiKo has been more consistent despite having considerably weaker teams. Futhermore, most of NiKo's time at the top has been with a higher level of competition. And in my eyes, that level rose with Astralis' rise.
2021-12-09 05:54
#132
 | 
Australia bobolati
yes /closed
2021-12-09 06:04
NiKo got robbed in 2017 btw. Just like Lewa.
2021-12-09 07:32
6 replies
Stop lying. Coldzera had better stats and twice as many MVPs as NiKo
2021-12-09 15:10
5 replies
had same stats, while NiKo played for MOUZ for the better half of the year.
2021-12-09 15:49
4 replies
After you said that, i checked the stats. The discrepancy between the stats is unreal. NiKo had more impact and ADR holy shit. hltv.org/stats/players/9216/coldzera?sta.. hltv.org/stats/players/3741/niko?startDa.. Cold was a monster in major tho. NiKo shit the bed hard in majors with abysmal ratings.
2021-12-10 09:16
3 replies
Late 2017 even the casters were calling him the best player in the world. IEM New York 2017 still holds the world record LAN rating.
2021-12-10 11:31
2 replies
Had it happened this year, he'd have definitely gotten #1. Back then, it was more about achievements as well right?
2021-12-10 14:45
1 reply
#242
 | 
Germany Matrixrl1
ye. this list used to be more achievement based in the past. but since 2019 (i think) its a way more individual list
2021-12-17 00:46
#139
 | 
Denmark NipoCS
Niko always had way worse teams, coldzera was in a team with a strong trio, fallen, fer and him, niko always felt like he been alone, it is just right now with g2, he has hunter to help him.
2021-12-09 07:35
#141
OK | 
United States maidz4
yeah
2021-12-09 07:36
niko is miles clear how tf is this even a question
2021-12-09 07:47
1 reply
+1
2021-12-10 19:27
niko is way better than coldzera individually coldzera played in better team at some point
2021-12-09 14:58
1 reply
fallen better than both btw
2021-12-14 01:38
#149
 | 
South America Melegatti
I think coldzera peek was at an easier time, niko is a lot more consistent all over the years... and if you compare today niko vs 2016-17 coldzera, niko is better, but today competition is way harder and s1mple is another animal, so it's really difficult to niko to be a top1 player now.
2021-12-09 15:04
cold won two majors, 2 mvps, 2 #1s. S1mple only equalled cold now interms of dominance, NiKo, not even close. In terms of skill, NiKo has always been as good or better than cold tho
2021-12-09 15:06
cold is way better player overall. niko is better aimer and has not got close to cold titles and shit, so no
2021-12-09 15:19
#158
 | 
Portugal W!LDF1RE
NiKo better player, Cold more successful.
2021-12-09 15:31
#162
 | 
United Kingdom legji
Coldzeras not even close, imagine comparing a time when the two majors were within four months of each other xD
2021-12-09 16:09
1 reply
+1 ppl tend to forget this ... we haven't had a major for like 2.5 year or so due to corona and ppl act like winning major is the only thing that makes a player a legend
2021-12-10 19:04
#168
 | 
Russia Soawii
niko way better
2021-12-09 21:33
NiKo didnt need a TACO player to take over games.
2021-12-09 21:35
individually yes, he has been the stronger player since 2017, but he just never had a stable team around him, even FaZe was never a consistent lineup.
2021-12-10 09:17
win a major then we talk
2021-12-10 09:24
#178
 | 
Mozambique CRMN1
overall, yes. primetime, no. cold on prime is still the best main rifler to ever touch this game in my opinion. it's NiKo's consistency over the years that give him the overall edge.
2021-12-10 09:26
coldzera_2_Major_MVPs_NiKo_0_Majors
2021-12-10 09:27
even in 2017 when coldzera was top1 player of the year people were talking about niko being individually better than him. im not even gonna bother myself about last 4 years. coldzera having 2 top1 2 mvp will put him higher place for official authorities and its understandable but for me the answer is all the way niko.
2021-12-10 15:09
NiKo all the way
2021-12-10 17:04
Depends on what u prefer, if achievements thn coldzera is still miles ahead n if consistency thn niko. Btw Cold peak is still higher thn Niko
2021-12-10 17:15
6 replies
no way in hell ..
2021-12-10 19:03
"Btw Cold peak is still higher thn Niko" LULW
2021-12-10 19:28
there is no rifler ever that has as high PEAK as NiKo, best peak rifler of all time, period. Only 2 awpers are above him :)
2021-12-10 19:37
2 replies
FalleN and Oskar GODS
2021-12-14 01:37
1 reply
hahaha sure
2021-12-14 16:08
#225
 | 
Ukraine Valta
bold claim
2021-12-15 20:47
no
2021-12-10 19:03
I think so, cold was godlike to 2 years and average for the rest
2021-12-10 19:14
1 reply
i mean 2 godlike 2016-2017 2018 he was kinda insane 2019 dropped off hard 2020 and 21 meh
2021-12-14 01:37
idk niko keeps choking on finals
2021-12-10 19:27
#204
 | 
United States Outl1er
Niko surpassed Cold a long time ago
2021-12-10 19:33
In terms of achievements, no. In terms of consistency and skill, yes.
2021-12-10 19:36
2 replies
This.
2021-12-14 01:36
1 reply
Yes! <3
2021-12-14 16:07
#213
 | 
United States raymoney
Easily. Coldzera was a great player, don't get me wrong. He proved that you don't need to have the defined superstar roles to carry games and win. However, Cold had two good years. Since then he has been lackluster at best. I do think Cold can be good again with the right team, but NiKo has been putting up 1.3 + rating and carrying games for the better part of 7 years and that level of consistency for a rifler is unmatched across all of Counter-Strike. Even though he doesn't have the achievements yet, NiKo is twice the player Cold ever was.
2021-12-14 01:43
#214
 | 
Serbia gumiflex
Coldzera 2 major 2 No1 Niko 0 major 0 No1
2021-12-14 01:44
lmao both are not even close to lewangoalski
2021-12-14 01:48
#218
 | 
Brazil Yamat01
No.
2021-12-14 01:54
Skill wise? Yeah, probably. Accomplisments? naaaaaaaaah.
2021-12-14 02:01
#220
 | 
Asia M@GNU5
Individually yes
2021-12-14 02:03
yes, while coldzera did have the most dominate era out of probably any player, it was only for ~2 years and basically nothing after that. NiKo has been a top3 rifler for his entire career though
2021-12-14 02:04
yeah
2021-12-14 02:06
Yes, for sure, kekw
2021-12-15 20:59
coldzera is just warm now
2021-12-15 21:45
#229
 | 
Austria Grundz
Cold actually won a bunch of important shit, so no. In terms of raw skill, yes.
2021-12-15 21:46
I wont make friends but I never thought cold was a good player. I think he even wouldnt be in my top 20. He just was stepped up by taco, but Fallen was far more important from my point of view. Average rifle. Average game sense. Average mechanics Simple or niko are not in the same category But this is my opinion, chill :)
2021-12-15 23:19
3 replies
#252
 | 
Italy steven513
I think he even wouldnt be in my top 20. LOL
2021-12-17 01:59
2 replies
+1
2021-12-17 02:46
This is my opinion ;) I think Fallen has always been far better than cold. And even taco if you ask me From my point of view, cold is the most overrated player ever
2021-12-17 10:21
yes
2021-12-17 00:34
mechanically yes but then most top 20 players now are mechanically better than coldzera. in terms of dominance no hes currently 3rd best player rn and of the whole year hes no4 or 5. cold has acually won events and was genuinely the best player in the world twice, niko cant even be second rn but if mechanics are all you care about yes hes surpassed cold if you care about skill relative to the competition cold has him any day of the week
2021-12-17 00:41
#243
 | 
Japan Laira
coldzera still no.1 player to lose 0-16 multiple times
2021-12-17 00:48
1 reply
doens't matter, he completed what any cs go pro wants, a major.
2021-12-17 02:46
Mechanically? Definitely Accomplishments/Legacy? Probably not I think Niko bridges that gap a bit with his consistency over the years. Coldzera had more overall success but was never able to truly replicate it outside of that brazilian line-up. Niko's basically had the same impact on every roster he's been a part of. Even in the rare times when he has fallen off, his floor has been much higher than we've seen cold's be If he hasn't surpassed him yet, he isn't far behind imo
2021-12-17 01:32
1 reply
#265
 | 
Indonesia FinZzz
+1 agree
2021-12-17 04:54
#249
 | 
Brazil InViktor
titles: Coldzera MVP: Coldzera Prime: Coldzera Today: Niko Niko's Prime hasn't won anything yet...
2021-12-17 01:43
coldzera, fer were fucked with csgo patch in 2017, when csgo became tapping & awp game while NiKo remained beast even after that, but achieved almost nothing.. This is hard comparation to be honest 🙂
2021-12-17 01:47
1 reply
what csgo patch are you talking about?
2021-12-17 02:27
#257
 | 
Brazil MentiG
I mean, cold has 2 majors ...
2021-12-17 02:47
Cold peak = GTR peak>>>Niko peak But, if we talk about consistency, Niko is the better riffler
2021-12-17 02:50
people don't understand how much cold's stats were inflated by his role in the team... don't get me wrong, he was insanely good in his role... but he was nowhere near top 10 skillwise, even in his prime.
2021-12-17 03:36
#264
 | 
Indonesia FinZzz
Lets be real here. 1. Niko is a much better player individually speaking (higher peak, higher precision, etc) 2. Niko is much more better longevity wise 3. Cold has historically a better team then Niko 4. Cold has more notable tournament wins including majors and major mvps So its really up to which lense are you trying to see here from, do you value team achievements more compared pure individual skill or the other way
2021-12-17 04:53
#267
 | 
India hax_w0w
why thread still alive
2021-12-17 05:24
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