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Apart from -shox + floppy, I think there's more problems to TL lineup then it seems.
How about -adren? I have never seen him specifically having a lot of impact in timeouts and improving TL players in general.
Now, before you say, "TL made the 2019 Grand Slam run record and it was under adren, so he's an excellent coach and you can't remove him!" hear me out.
He obviously isn't a bad coach. But is he excellent? If that's the case, then when TL was in it's slump in 2020 and 2021, he couldn't really help them improve. Same here also.
I think that adren has not been much of a factor (as a Head Coach) since TL doesn't really listen to him.
it's time to get someone with more balls and voice as a coach e.g. XTQZZ, Zonic, Blad3, Groove etc.
So, who to get?
+Zews
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I think Fuck Thorin is more appropriate.
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Thorin is clueless when it comes to csgo.
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Thorin is clueless when it comes to esports in general
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This is NOT a Thorin hate thread.
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It is now fuck thorin
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It is now. Fuck that guy.
How is he clueless when he is esports nt
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Good point ggs
-shox +jks...
shox is one of the most clever player in the scene but really has trouble hitting shots for a moment...
adreN is a great coach I agree he's absolutely not a problem
Getting jks as the passive lurker player will give them much more impact.
With time, nitr0 will adapt to the current meta, oSee will find the impact he ever had and EliGe, Naf and jks are monsters.
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Naf is the passive lurker tho, jks would uave to play aggressive roles like he did while standing in for faze... He could do it but liquid is not a great team like faze so he would propably struggle as well. Not as much as shox but still. Problem is that jks is a very quiet player who doesnt really show emotions, without shox liquid is literally a dead inside team that just eats up everything. Also shox has been helping with calls, prac etc inside and outside the game. Idk if -shox +jks could really make liquid a mich better team tbh
Floppy is just such a better addition.
Don't know about JKS and if they wanted JKS in the first places, why bother signing shox since he was also available?
NAF and JKS didn’t get along on Optic
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Maybe, but can't say for sure.
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So, you want Shox to IGL? That never has worked in the past and can't say for sure whether it will work now.
But an interesting idea nonetheless.
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Who's better than Floppy then, you say?
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Nope, no way.
Floppy is much better. The amount of impact he has in bitch roles is absolutely insane which is what TL needs desperately. Sure, Shox has much more experience and secondary calling skills than him, but Floppy would provide the much needed firepower upgrade TL needs.
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nah, I'm not having someone like sunny on a team like TL.
Either have some better IGL or for the time being stick with Nitr0 as he's decent to say the least. Could obviously improve but better than taking a blind gamble.
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Well, the thing is - there are no better IGLs in NA right now. Makes me really pissed how no NA team made an offer to vanity when Chaos discontinued their CSGO division...
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As much as I'm flattered, I don't get to play a lot of CSGO and mostly just follow tier-1 tournaments and players in general. I haven't played CS in a long time.
I ain't good enough for TL.
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Thanks for the blessing! But I'm not a player and could be more of a coach honestly...
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who the f**k are you?
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Yes, that's the 'public' version.
But behind the scenes, there's a lot of talk that if XTQZZ or Zonic don't join G2/Vitality, there's a REAL possibility that Zews would come. He won't come for just some tier-2 team or anything. But if a championship contender team with potential is here, he would happily be their head coach.
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Yeah, keep trolling to disband teams as always.
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Did they get a lot better with Adren though? Also, how much time was Moses really there? A couple of months. Maximum 4?
Also, if you're basically shifting IGLs all the time, tell me if having REAL coaching even matters?
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Okay, I agree it's a significant period of time.
But keep in mind, that Grim was literally just added now and after some time FalleN.
When a team makes a lot of roster changes (with coach) at the same time, it's a bit harder to judge a coach's strengths. Obviously, TL had a lot of other issues due to these roster moves in that period and Moses probably didn't work out for them due to internal issues.
But still that doesn't imply adren is an excellent coach, does it?
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I think +Autimatic is a very solid move but he doesn't usually IGL. He can be a decent secondary caller though.
I personally think that nitr0 still has a lot more to give and for the near future, it's better to try and see if he can improve substantially. If that's not the case, -nitr0 all the way.
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maybe. Who you want in place of nitr0?
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Easy to say that a fresh talent can IGL a team of experienced veterans. He would be laughed out of the team. IGL is a role that fundamentally requires experience and that too at top level.
Autimatic is a good pickup though. But in order to mold him into good IGL, you need excellent coaches. Like XTQZZ did with Apex.
Which is exactly the point of my post.
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there's a serious lack of igls in na....nothing would be easy or happen over night
you don't need a micro igl if you have experienced players, you more need people to take over responsibilities of decision making/calling
and both auti and a coach can help there
just my 2 cents, no easy answer
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Agreed
What the heck makes you think autimatic would be a better igl than stew?
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Because autimatic did quite a lot of secondary calling back in Cloud9? He's an experienced player in S-tier tournaments and understand the strats and setups.
But first you need an excellent coach like XTQZZ, Zonic, Blad3, Groove etc.
Look how XTQZZ moulded Apex into IGL. Blad3 did the same with Boombl4. Groove did that with Nafany.
adreN is not someone I trust who can mould Nitr0/Autimatic into a better IGL considering he's basically friends with them as he was their teammate in the past (for Nitr0).
That's the point of the post and why we need excelllent coach in TL.
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He was secondary calling for the main IGL stew.
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tarik was the main IGL. Both stew and auti were secondary.
Lol gotta love it when ppl just love to put names and making them igl.
Yeah lets get him and make him play a role that he has no exp in and make him uncomfortable every game and make him play like shit so everyone can start hating the player and put all the blame on him.
Fuck off with this dumb idea it never works
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i think ur absolutely right adreN is not that much of an asset to this team they need a better tactical coach.
im gonna go very BOLD and say this :
-adreN +PIMP
it may be a gamble (same as moses) but hey zonic came to astralis with 0 experience from source right to coaching and left with 4 fucking majors and grand slam and many many tier S tornaments...
and both danish.
actually liquid have this NA ego and they really need to get rid of it if they wana ever be competitive again
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Pimp is quite a BOLD take honestly.
Has he ever clarified that he wants to be team coach or anything? Also, keep in mind that Pimp played in TL for a period of time (same as Adren) so they might not propoerly listen to him and it might become the same case as Adren.
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My point was coaching. The above is not a summary.
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Elige doesn't like Stew so that won't be an option.
+jamppi
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As much as he might like to return in October, I don't think TL CSGO division wants him. He was an AWPer and we already got Osee.
though would like to see what kind of team he could join...
TBH. I honestly think Elige is what is holding Liquid back from creating new talents, letting other star players in the team and allowing new players to take up any space.
The first time I spotted it was with Grim, and now I'm seeing the same reminiscence in oSee's gameplay. I feel like Elige gives TL what they want in terms of firepower, but just has too big of a say in the team, their direction and the approach to the game in general
either a new TL fan or just clueless, TL staff must've thought the same as they replaced adren for Moses (emotional support type coach, very weak tactically) and TL did horrible UNTIL they got adren, and then they finally became a slightly respectable team again. They just need more consistent individuals (such as floppy or jks) than shox is and they'll be a solid contender.
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I am not saying Moses was better than Adren and hire Moses instead. Read my post carefully.
Zews is an extremely high level coach. He literally has worked with TL (2018 back with Taco) and EG (2019 when it was a lot of TL Vs EG in finals) in the past and made them top-3 in the world.
Also, TL shouldn't be "slightly respectable team" but should be championship contenders. You ain't getting tenured (but still young) players like NAF and Elige ever again. You already lost Twistzz due to Fallen and see where he's now...
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agreed
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the difference betweem the rmr and t1 is also because Elige won't get punished for his random moves. and why are caring if shox is not bombing against na t3 ?
For me, he needs to have impact against top10/20 and honestly, even shox is inconsistent, he is having more impact than elige in many games. Elige throws rounds because he wants to play like at the rmr.
And not only this event, elige has been horrible since the last major. Farming against NA
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after getting smacked a lil bit in EU from the BLAST Fall Showdown and DH Winter
TL got 2nd at iem global challenge(beating FURIA, BIG, and Heroic)
semis at kato
and made playoffs at EPL S13(looked strong during groups but lost all 6 pistols to g2 in a very close series)
Malek would be a good addition he was sadly wasted in EG and him + a firepower upgrade with either JKS or the Flop would make liquid really dangerous
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I honestly won't like to have Malek as a coach especially for a team like TL where big egos are involved. He's a much more emotional and support coach who usually works best with French players.
If +Malek happens, then I guarantee you he's going to end up exactly the same like Moses.
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Honestly, after seeing how the EG project turned out, I have quite a less faith in Stewie.
If Stewie proves himself again otherwise, maybe get him back. But as of now, no.
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stew's succeeded with Liquid in the past. One bad stint with EG as an IGL shouldn't screw him over forever with getting opportunities as an entry fragger.
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I am not implying Stew failure because of EG project fail. But he was constantly trying to be IGL in TL and is now in EG and both projects flopped.
If he' ready to accept that he's not IGL material and willing to be only secondary caller and a bit better entry fragger, I am inclined to give him a shot back into TL. But his huge ego is a bit problematic.
That's why before making roster changes, you need to have a REAL coach with balls who will keep the players' egos in check. That's why this thread.
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Honestly TL with stew as the IGL was way better than TL now. Granted they had stew himself as a fragger.
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If you want Stew back, get a REAL coach first. Only after that, I would think of getting Stew back.
Not with adreN.
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Definitely agree. Liquid with zews and stew could be really interesting. Especially given he's worked with nitro in the past and could figure out how to make osee into a great AWPer.
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Yes! That's the point of the post.
Once you have an excellent coach, talent scouting also becomes a lot easier since the coach has better eyes for talent. You can also improve then upon the existing players as welll.
The coach forms a fundamental structure of the team and org and that's missing in TL currently. This was also eluded by Shox in some French interview a few days before.
u mean the guy who spends more time playing valorant then actually trying to improve and practise in cs ?
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Also, I don't like him saying that 'eventually, he would move to Valorant'.
Like wtf. Why would I, as an org commit to you if you yourself aren't ready to commit to the game we are paying you to win in.
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idk man the whole eg management team is a joke :D
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Let's see what other changes EG makes...
no na teams will never invest in a decent coach
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Yes, that's what it seems like apparently.
EG invested in getting a good coach but everyone can see how that turned out to be.
Adren is horrible as a coach. I have watched him since the Mythic time and the guy has no personality at all. This kind of coach has no idea how to fire the team up when they are down/tilted. What's the point of having good tactics when your team can hard choke at any time??
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Exactly ! That's my point.
How many times have we watched G2 players say in interviews like whenever we are tilted, XTQZZ is really good in recovering us back.
Have you ever heard the same about Adren? Never.
He's more like a friend to TL than an actual coach with voice.
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Yes, that's a very good option actually. He's usually good with up and coming French players and it would be a very good project for him to take.
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I think if only 1 player is inconsistent and the rest are all very good and all, they should have been in playoffs.
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they just dont have a map pool developed enough to beat top 5 teams right now. Its clear that they haven't paid attention to all of the maps yet and are focusing one at a time. Their vertigo is pretty good because its obvious theyve focused on it for a little bit now. Their overpass is dogshit and they lose it to EG, because they haven't developed it yet with new core.
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Even if they develop their map pool, I don't think this roster has enough potential to perform consistently at top level
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low firepower, so honestly - shox +jks and if elige can't wake the fuck up then kick him and add floppy or some shit. He sponges up the roles and space he wants and needs, supposed to be the star center of the team but is performing like dogshit and is probably a good reason why they lost some of these matches.
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True, despite the one having remained in TL for the longest time now, it's maddening to think that he isn't as consistent as he once was.
But that's where having an excellent coach can really help. If a coach like ZEWS comes and says for example that Elige is washed up, then it's time to kick him.
Since adren is friends with basically all the TL, he would never have the balls to kick Elige.
Which is the point of my post indirectly.
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Yes, better to have Adren as an analyst.
Yes, they need to get a 'real' coach.
#41 for Malek
-shox +jks -Adren +Valens and all honestly i think it also has to do with Eliege not being open to his team mates and only relying on himself and his ego, twistzz was a waste of a talent in TL, they would of done so much more if they had figured out how to make eliege reliable again with fallen and stew. Twitzz could have done alot more in TL if they gave him the room to but ppl already had their roles and didnt wanted a change in that role so TL needs to change from inside out if they want to compete with the top EU/CIS teams otherwise theyre down bad, and im saying this after nitro left, yeah they set a world record but that was when nitro was there and when nitro came back well now they suck again
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Valens is banned for coaching. That's why he's the head of Data Science in EG.
Twistzz was a not a waste of talent in TL and Nitr0, Elige, Twistzz, NAF could have been the best core ever...but we'll never see that again.
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Yes, it was in HLTV news quite some time ago.
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stopped reading at +Zews
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Yes, that's the end of post and you are meant to stop at that word.
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+Malek maybe? He`s a very good coach IMO
Also -shox +jks instead of floppy
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real fix: valorant
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Real fix would be to give them time, shox was continuously travelling and it affected his performance way more than it shouldve, he is an average 1 kd player which isnt too bad if he brings other things to the table like helping nitr0 out and by the looks of it TL werent that disappointed after being eliminated and were still laughing and having fun maybe, idk why people are expecting shox to carry them and continuously saying -shox since day 1 even if it wasnt an expected move.
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The problem is that the team doesn't have consistent firepower. Shox cannot provide that and even Nitr0 cannot provide that. Nitr0 could be excused as an IGL but Shox cannot unfortunately. If Nitr0 can't properly IGL, get him out and get autimatic. What's the point of IGLing if your secondary caller is anyways making most of the calls.
In order to improve the consistency of the entire team itself, having a REAL coach is what I think would fundamentally address all these issues.
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Actually, TL asked Twistzz if he wanted to come back after they kicked Stewie and Fallen and got Nitr0 back.
He refused and wanted to remain in Faze. (Keep in mind his girlfriend is in Europe and that's one of the reasons Twistzz wanted to move into EU)
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Good take!
adren just sucks as a coatch, last year TL had so many internal problems, and the coatch couldn't do anything. In 2019 he was good, but i think it was more the team than him, its diferrent from b1ad3 at navi, that really does the tactics parts at the team. So yes, -adren.
-shox obviously, and +jks maybe, just dont know if he wants. Nitro is doing well, Osee is ok, Naf and Elige are at a bad phase, but can recover.
And zews is a good option, have been in the org at 2018, but he was retired i think.
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It's 'public' opinion that Zews is retired.
But behind the scenes, it's rumoured that if the right team with potential to be contenders along with the right offer comes, Zews would happily come back.
Yes, due to the above reasoning itself when the team was in a good phase as well as in the bad phase, the amount of impact AdreN had was nowhere to be seen and that's why he isn't much useful to the team and TL should hire a REAL coach instead.
-shox
-nitro
-adren
+azr/jkeam
+jks
+kassad
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Kassad is also a good take. JKS and Azr could be good but I don't know where Azr is and whether he's still active.
I can maybe try and hire a good coach who would help Nitr0 more in IGLing (similar to XTQZZ in Apex) and if that doesn't work out, then kick Nitr0 for some other IGL.
But you need to have a very good coach first and that's the point of my post.
i don't think releasing shox to get floppy will fix anything lol....shox actually has some impact moments like the overpass against 9z he brought to avoid a decider map and get a comeback qualification run started, while he isn't a star player and it's clearly not the most solid performer in term of numbers (not that i think he should be on that line up anyways), kicking him to bring floppy would be a downgrade....in said case you should look for someone better, not someone equal or worst.
And if what you say is true that the team don't listen to adren, then it's the players fault not his, the coach isn't supposed to enslave the players for them to listen; and as far as i remember last year when fallen was still there, adren had actual impact on T.Os and gave some tips or calls that brought rounds for TL; so if the players don't listen now, and considering naf and elige where already there plus osee is far from a leader, i'd say the fall probably falls on either nitr0 or shox, and i'd lean more towards nitr0 since he is the igl.
To me personally, the biggest issue on TL is elige, i don't think nitr0 coming back from valorant and becoming igl was a good idea, but elige is been there for ages, and he's supposed to be a super star player but somehow he usually dissapears on the tough moments and chokes hard, he's not consistant enough to fullfill his role imo and at the same time, while he is a good player which tl could keep but change his role, that's something he just would never let happen.
Liquid wanna be major contender, but they just kill themselves with the moves; they are not willing to spend the good money to bring impactfull known players or young super stars, like NIP did with dev1 or g2 with m0nesy; but at the same time they don't bring cheap young promises with huge potential to try and run a long time project....osee has potential although it still needs a lot of work to be more solid but it's a great move from TL in the long run, Naf is solid player whose usually delivering and anchors well for them; shox is already there and as a cheap player with good explotion moments and experience, i don't think is a bad option to keep at this point, my take would be -nitr0 -elige +good igl +good hyper carry (wether known or youngstar to nurture).
If they do that, they could have a potential top team in 1-2 years.
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I'm among the first who not only look at stats, shox was very important in the Vitality roster despite having very bad stats because he's very clever in game, had insane clutches and was fixing the anchor better than anyone. He basically was a poison for the enemy team back in Vitality.
However, what he brings to Liquid right now isn't very impacftul. I wouldn't necessary change for players like floppy, autimatic or any random NA skilled player but there's one of the most impactful player playing the exact same roles than him currently teamless in jks and it wouldn't make any sense not to pick him since he would fit rolewise and characterwise in this specific line up.
The second option would be to get Yekindar if he wishes to move to NA and leave NAF as the lurker, it would create spaces as nobody currently excels in TL as an entry.
nitr0 still has work to do in terms of vision but he's a clever cookie and will catch up on the meta having been away from the game for a long period.
EliGe completely failed the Major, but even though it's probably his worst performance ever, that's the first time as far as I remember that he didn't find some impact in a whole tournament.
EliGe is the best NA player together with NAF and absolutely needs to stay imo
-shox +JKS or Yekindar, give them a couple of months and they'll be top5
You think a coach's role is only tactics and strats? NO
That's what I hinted in my post. A coach's job is also to see the team and individual players' performance. I have never seen adreN improving some players' individual performance as well as helping them in mental side of things.
Yes, Elige has been very inconsistent and that's a point of concern for TL. But adreN is not helping Elige to be more consistent and that's why you need a REAL coach who would address such issues.
Having a REAL coach would see to the structure of the team as well as improving individual players on all their aspects. A REAL coach would work with Elige much more closely than adreN ever could since adreN doesn't have the balls to correct Elige's mistakes. (why? they were teammates in TL back in the day. Do you think he's a coach or a friend?)
Go figure.
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I think he's much better now.
It's upto him if he wants to join. I personally don't have a lot of faith in NFT but if he believes, then he has my blessing.
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They cut him to get Moses who's literally an analyst and commentator with no prior coaching experience. Also, Twisstzz left when Moses joined and along with that Grim and Fallen joined.
Safe to say that it was a turbulent time in team and shifiting all the blame to Moses isn't fair when the team was itself becoming dysfunctional. In the end, they still made roster changes again so it's not that comin back of AdreN suddenly fixed those things as well.
Again, this just proves that he's not having the impact that a REAL coach should have.
Silly Canuck adren is a great coach. If they can replace shox with a competent 5th and osee learns how to calm his nerves on LAN they will be a top 10 team instantly. Even with shox they’re getting pretty close to top 10
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You seriously want TL to be just Top 10? If that's your expectation, then you truly don't believe in TL .
TL as an org should be title contenders for every S-tier LAN and Majors. They should be a team who can establish an era given the quality of players they have.
That's my expectations from an org like TL and the above post reflects those expectations to a degree.
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Then they have to get rid of shox
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Agreed. It becomes pretty clear when you have (and should have) such high expectations, you need to get those players.
Look at G2. TL can learn a lot from Carlos.
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G2 is dogshit what? They have to rely on exploits to win games.
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nah, G2's ceiling is extremely high. They can even potentially be the best team ever if they grow properly. they already have an excellent coach in XTQZZ
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Can’t be best team in the world with choko and aleksibot lmao
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Keep trolling as much as you like. choko will show you how wrong you over the next few years.
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dobut it, guy chokes every grand final. terrible player
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Trust me, he'll win one final. Once he wins it, he will start winning more.
Yeah, keep calling him terrible players, I'm sure once you join the server you will hard carry G2 to major grand finals every time.
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Choko
-Elige
-Shox
+Yekindar
+Floppy
It's time for Elige to go. He joined back in 2015 and has had extremely talented teams but no majors to show for it. Not only is he extremely inconsistent but his attitude isn't positive for TL’s team health. His passive-aggressiveness has driven out multiple players in the past. Why Yekindar? He's young, creative, and more consistent. Team Liquid pretty much relies fully on Elige to play well so why not switch roles? Yekindars current AWPer is an issue for his playstyle. Why Floppy? Floppy may not be as smart as Shox but he's got better mechanics and definitely someone you would probably prefer in a solo site hold. Team Liquid replacing Nitr0 with Nexa would be ideal but unrealistic. Then we get to coaching... If TL feels that AdreN is a good coach than so be it but it might be time to start looking for replacements.
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adreN has been in TL for far too long. Maybe the reason why Elige is so consistent is perhaps he is unwilling to work with a REAL coach and his ego? That's why an experienced coach with the balls is needed to make sure Elige returns to his top form and who can work with Elige more closely.
I am also in favour of having +Yekindar. Let's see if TL has the balls to make this move.
-shox
-Elige
+jks
+floppy
i agree - shox + floppy or jks
- adren + zews
stop with the -Shox thing. The guy played all his life in French teams, speaking FRENCH, then he goes international and he has to speak English and you can't fix that in just some months.
Shox is great and he should stay in Liquid because he is the only guy holding the team together and calming everyone down.
Agree with your AdreN thing, maybe he can be analyst for TL and let someone else coach but not a caster (although I liked Moses).
Zews or Malek would be good I think for TL
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Zews would be ideal.
Malek unfortunately not. Read #41
Team Liquid has 3 options in my opinion. Keep the same team and wait for our roster to finally snap in place, Find a replacement for Elige and keep the Roster the same or go full nuclear option and get rid of Elige and Shox. I like Shox and I feel like we should give him some time. But long term options are JKS, Floppy, Yekindar etc. As much as I think Elige is a cancer to this team he;'s also a star. One of NA's few stars. So if you want to replace him you got to go big and get Yekindar. Some tier 2 NA player ain't filling that role
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I think if you can get Yekindar you should really do it as Liquid org, the guy is long term and have proved that he is a god like player.
I think Shox played a decent major, they were good in the Challenger stages but men they fucked up the Legends stage.
I don't know if JKS is willing to play for an American org, but he would be good too, because I think if you get rid of Shox, NAF will probably go too because the only reason he is staying because of Shox. (but -NAF + JKS is possible because of the similar roles)
Don't know about Elige, guy was so good for so long but he is been playing 'meh' for so long too now (
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NAF has signed a pretty long contract (2+ years) with Liquid. He's now commited to TL.
It's the right time to drop Shox and NAF has gotten to play with Shox and fulfilled his hunger, or whatever it is.
It's time to contend for trophies, give Yekindar the bag and offer him frequent bootcamps to EU to compensate for bad practice in NA. Having more frequent bootcamps in EU would also improve TL overall. If anything, you can even reduce practice in NA by significant amount and do the same practice in EU which would be much more efficient.
JKS honestly needs star roles (currently with Elige) or lurker (with NAF). He's not a good fit for TL. If he wants to change his playstyle and do more entry work, maybe I consider him with TL. Now with the recent news that OG ain't signing him, he'll probably go back to Australia and maybe improve Renegades...
i am in full agreeance. issue is shox has expressed his frustration with NA play and also is very likely to leave(from the pressure on social media, Liquid team being criticized, and ofc stats)
I still think adreN is the best option for liquid I just think he needs to find a new form if you know what I mean
I know 2018-2019 he was activ he helped the team and he made sure that they need to be changes in some games
After he decided to leave liquid in this period of time where Moses was the coach after him then leaving again he was really good in terms of helping the team now with this new team he isn’t very active enough
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Precisely what I wanted to say! Thanks.
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Precisely my thoughts. Very happy to find someone who thinks alike!
That's what I mean by having a REAL coach with the balls. He's just a passive analyst and nowhere to be seen managing the team and players.
For their coach they should get Luis "noclip" Tadeu, it would give them a big advantage
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Who's he?
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search for Luis Tadeu, very underrated coach
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okay, so noclip was for that. I also thought it was peacemaker in the beginning.
But no, unfortunately. Can't even say if he would remain a coach for much longer.
1 reply
maybe he can transition as a tournament observer :)
3 replies
What exactly did he say about him? I don't see French interviews.
2 replies
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Than that only illuminates my point even more. Maybe we can finally get rid of adreN?
Shox obviously has played under XTQZZ in Vitality and it makes sense on what I wanted to say.
-shox
-Nitro
+Alex
+mezii
7 replies
Oooohhh, actually possible. Mezill though needs more star roles which Elige currently has..
Yea lets destroy Liquid even more.
Look at Fnatic
4 replies
They lost their 2 best players and are playing with a stand in, the fact they are even competitive is all on Alex,mezii and krimz
3 replies
Actually, they were competitve when Brollan was in their team. Look at the team without Brollan and then see their results.
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That what I meant, it’s hard to do anything without brollan or smyooa. Honastly can’t blame the others if poison is meant to be your star awper
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Can't say the same for Smooya though...But Brollan was very important.
So you’d want to kick a semi-washed up igl for a completely washed up igl?
7 replies
LOL, spirit already has an org.
CPH Flames ain't worth buying.
/closed
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I am not saying they 'cannot' buy them. I'm saying they shouldn't buy them since Spirit already is a very well established CIS org.
No, Flames is not that better than liquid. If anything, CPH Flames has reached their ceiling and TL has yet to do that. Also, what's the point of being NA orgs if you are buying full Danish rosters? If EG, TL, Cloud9 start taking only foreign players, good luck with NA CS.
'I don't think anyone is interested in joining this international liquid apart from tier 17 NA players" Tell me you're trolling without telling me you're trolling.
4 replies
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Yes, TL stock has dropped quite a lot recently. They just need to make EU players an offer they can't refuse honestly.
Take for example, Yekindar who wants to move on from the CIS region and could come to NA for the right offer. But you need an excelent coach with the right structure beforehand.
2 replies
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Okay, if you want to make a CIS roster, then make sure you have the infrastructure for facilities and scouting. If TL are ready to invest in that, they have my blessing.
But, that would still require an excellent coach!
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NO hate threads/comments here.
-shox
-adren
-elige
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Let's keep Elige for now
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Quite true. I might excuse Nitr0 a bit but the other players need to step up consistently.
8 replies
Sure, keep comparing apples to oranges.
The players you mentioned are ok-good on tier-2. They are getting destroyed in tier-1.
7 replies
If you want chemistry, Osee and Floppy have the biggest bromance if you want to see things in that way...
6 replies
- Just see their historic against tier-1 and you'll see that you're wrong. Their team is being destroyed, ofc, but they show interesting performances even tho.
- oSee don't play well against tier-1 either.
- "The players you mentioned are ok-good on tier-2", but Liquid is tier-2 at most and most of times don't play tier-1. Their only tier-1 player is NAF right now. Maybe elige and nitr0, but the only tier-1 material with consistence they have is NAF, it's undeniable.
- FURIA is the only tier-1 playing against NA teams often. Imperial is.. maybe a 1.5, idk...
and Liquid is faaar below them, so... at least betting on different approaches is a good try.
5 replies
Current liquid roster has beaten heroic 2-0 and taken faze to OT multiple times. Their issue is consistency, and as much as I’ve enjoyed the imperial fairytale run, it’s just one event and they’re far from being the better team.
1 reply
- Imperial is better than Liquid atm.
- Just like you said, Liquid issue is consistency, and their pattern is losing to tier1.
- The upsets are what they are: exceptions. And don't give me wrong americo friend, I cheer a lot for a NA restructure, watching european hegemony in tier1 is boring as fuck (and SA is carrying NA scene, we all know).
- Liquid is the best team from NA. But betting on hiring available expensive star players can be dangerous. I think reestructure requires a lot of time, trial and error. With this approach they can be upsets when the team plays well individually but, imo, they could lower their performance and try another approaches in a long-time run (and not only my suggestion about pwnalone and djay, but other approches in general).
Firstly, if you think Liquid is tier-2 then you've got to be smoking. Tier-2 is teams like Party Astronauts, HEET, etc.
TL don't play tier-1? They don't play in Pro league, Blast, Majors etc.? Do you even watch tier-1 CS?
Sure, expect everyone to be Zywoo and being HLTV top rated players in their rookie players. No-one is saying Osee has proved himself or has reached his potential to be the best AWPer he's ever been.
First you criticize NA teams for not giving tier-2 talent to grind in tier-1 and accuse them for recycling old players. When they give the opportunity to tier-2, you're literally asking them to be cut-off after just 4 months and that too when playing against very good tier-1 teams.
Liquid is still a pretty good team. Telling Imperial is much better than TL just shows me you didn't even watch the matches closely enough and just look at results. See their matchups and how Imperial won/Liquid lost. See their games and understand their mistakes. Then decide on yourself whether Imperial is really better than TL.
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Peace. Anyone thinking TL isn't tier-1 isn't meant to read further.
Enjoy your day.
liquid real fix is -every1 but NAF and build a new team around naf
maybe keep elige, however i am not sure about him anymore
1 reply
I think they bulit it around NAF and Elige but the fatal mistake was they didn't get the excellent coach.
That's what the post is about.
I don’t think you remove adren from the team, but having him as a tactical guy that helps their game plan from home while also having a hype man for games could help a lot for them imo. It’s kinda like what nip did with threat.
1 reply
Yeah, I am also thinking about the same. Since adreN is mostly their 'analyst' type of guy, it's pretty wasteful to have him as a head coach too.
Better to have someone like Zews as a head coach and keep adreN as an analyst at the same time.
1 reply
Swisher does not have the kind of firepower needed for TL standards.
Floppy is just a better option.
1 reply
Never have I said that Nitr0 is a perfect player...
I have said that due to lack of better IGL's, keep nitr0 for the time being. Also, he was AWPing for TL before he was cut and he used to rifle back in 2015. So, it's fair to give him more than 4 months on top of IGLing.
Also, when I implied TL need an excellent coach, it's quite obvious that the new coach would also help in making nitr0 a better IGL (similar to XTQZZ to Apex, Blad3 to Boombl4).
That's why having an excellent coach is quintessential.
Team Liquid could just keep this roster and run it back. Look at teams like Flames. They don't have star studded players but since they've been together so long I feel like they formed a chemistry. That's what Liquid needs. Maybe you replace Adren but at this point I think they need more time. If they do feel like a roster change is in their best interest then I'd say the two guys on the hot seat are Elige and Shox. As much as I feel like Team Liquid would benefit from getting rid of Elige he's also hard to replace. Only guy that's semi-realistic is Yekindar. Nobody in the NA scene right now can replace Elige. You could push the long term option and develop FaNg in Elige's position but right now Liquid want to win. -Shox and +Floppy or JKS could be benificial but right now outside of potentially landing Yekindar I think Liquid should keep this team and just -AdreN.
1 reply
I honestly want Shox out since he's not adding anything valuable to the roster.
If TL pay huge to complexity, they can get floppy which is the best possible (and more realistic) option. If you can get Yekindar (which is pretty difficult since he would likely go to G2 before TL), I can see them contending for trophies. But they still require a lot of work to do....
-Adren (as a head coach) and getting Zews back is honestly required at theis point of time if we ever want to see TL even close to their 2019 form.
RIP LIQUID
What about coldzera?
Just a question, pls no hate
1 reply
Coldzera is a passive lurker and NAF-FLY is straight up better than him. So, no place for coldzera in liquid.
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Because having +Zews is actually much more important for the team as a whole? That's the point I was addressing, not just another small roster change.
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I am not saying kicking out AdreN altogether but NOT him as a head coach. He can be an assistant coach and analyst (similar to like Threat in NIP now). But I want the djl for TL.
all of the coach replacements you listed are not gonna join, you'd have to get like a coach for a t2 team. no t1 coach is gonna join TL
3 replies
I would actually disagree.
Players are much much more oriented towards winning the next tournament, getting majors, having the best stats, etc. whereas, a coach is much more flexible and usually looks towards the quality of players in the roster he has to improve. It's like the analogy between a student and a teacher. A student wants to be the next best thing he could be whereas the teacher focuses more on the long term growth of the student.
TL still has a lot of very high potential players and usually, any coach would love to join that team imo.
If I have to throw any open advertisement for coaching for TL tomorrow, any coach beside Zonic, XTQZZ, Blad3, Groove, Robban would love to come and join TL.
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Idk if Blad3 and Groove would feel comfortable in an English speaking team
1 reply
"any coach beside Zonic, XTQZZ, Blad3, Groove..."
Learn to read first.
New TL
NAF
Elige
Nexa
Device
Yekindar
2 replies
That could be a very good team but Nexa is like a side upgrade to Nitr0. Plus, Nitr0 usually has decent rapport with NAF and Elige and usually adjusts well with players, so I'll choose him over Nexa.
If Dev1ce and Yekindar come, boy oh boy, I can literally see them contending for all the trophies+ Era.
Before someone suggest that I am overrating, trust me this would be such a banging roster with so many star players.. But this roster is too good to be true....
Maybe if dev1ce wants to come to NA, Yeki also, maybe it happens but not realistically imo
the real fix is lollipop21k
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