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Tabsen cuz he is a true hero
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True hero but he couldve done so many great things if he didnt stick with the German scene (which is definitely admirable)
id say its even
ye gla1ve has 4 majors and top 10 in 2018
but karrigan has developed more talent than gla1ve
has won a major with an international lineup
won 3 tier 1 events with a stand in
is relevant rn while gla1ve is not even though he has a blameF in superstar form
but then again
gla1ve still won events after 2018 till 2020 but then fell of the cliff
but also won katowice twice and has a grandslam
i think they are tied because even though he has a grandslam and 4 majors
karrigan has developed more talent, has more longevity, hitting his peak rn despite bieng aged 32, has the number 1 team with a combination of good players (keyword good not great/godly players) and is winning by comittee
but i think if gla1ve continues as he is rn and karrigan continues and stays top 3 which i see is very likely, eventually gla1ve's past achievements will lessen in value as the comp is only getting tougher and tougher and karrigan's longevity is outmatching gla1ve's
so rn i tihnk they are tied but i can see karrigan wining this debate in their current form
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How is FalleN ahead of Pronax?
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+1, imo pronax is still 2nd all time
FalleN's legacy on the game is beyond that of Pronax. Man invented Brazilian Counter-Strike in a region where there was 0 belief in the CS scene let alone the IGLing scene, and proved that IGLs could put up monstrous stats in game. But that's not really the main reason to me
As unlike Pronax FalleN's now proven he can lead a resurgence late in his career. Pronax's very lacklustre way to fizzle out his legendary career is a blow to him I feel. Whereas guys like Karrigan, FalleN and even Zeus can demonstrate that career longevity and adaptability
I also feel FalleN was more integral to the success of his teams than Pronax to fnatic. fnatic you have really assertive voices like Flusha, JW and Olofmeister if you watch their comms pretty much everybody is chipping in with ideas so its less on Pronax's shoulders in comparison
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Karrigan no doubt in my mind
1. Zeus
2. gla1ve
rest irrelevant
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youtube.com/watch?v=92fdtWtCV_8&t=1478s&..
20:00 onwards. its not a complete speech but you get vibe and a brief translation later a couple of mins in.
For things he said got Gambit back in the game and the major. I don't think their any IGL who has ever pulled off anything like this. Which is why i will always hold him in High regards.
zeus overrated
1. Aleksib
Gla1ve is past. Karrigan GOAT NOW
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Gla1ve has been on astralis for the last 5 and a half years it’s hard to make multiple teams top one when he’s on the roster for that long
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I don't think he did it alone. he had Zonic and device who are both smart in terms of csgo.
+ Karrigan told Zonic to hire Glaive
In 2018, from February to April Faze were ranked number 1 with karrigan leading. Yeah they choked the major final but they were still the best team in the world.
I think you are forgetting that gla1ve didn't need to change rosters, cos he was dominating with one for a long time and meanwhile karrigan was iterating in different rosters quite a lot.
So, of course he got more trophies with different rosters. So it's a bit bad comparison "which one has won more rosters with different rosters". Maybe we could make another measure: Average on how much titles with new roster within x months? That would maybe be better measure.
hard to deny glaive that title with the era astralis had
but for me karrigan is more impressive, so many different teams and he made all work to a high level
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after the epl win or?
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glaive achieve trophies only in Astralis roster, but Karrigan make top tier every team he played. I dont think glaive could have won EPL with mouz roster but Karrigan did. So i think karrigan is the goat igl.
It doesnt matter the roster he is playing with for karrigan, but look at new Astralis right now.
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But Zeus shaped S1mple from TOXIC to the GOAT
So Zeus GOAT IGL cuz he is the GOAT maker.
Karrigan couldn’t win a major with this team:
Karrigan
Niko
Guardian
Olof
Rain
gla1ve took a team of known chokers (old TSM) and turned them into the undisputed best team of all time
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This is a point which i cant deny but your point doesnt deny mine too. I still think glaive cant win big trophies without old astralis roster, and karrigan won big trophies with different rosters.
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I doubt we’ll see gla1ve hoist another major at this rate, but I don’t think he has anything else to prove. He’s done everything you can do in this game. Hopefully this discourse will motivate him to innovate csgo even more than he has. No disrespect to Karrigan obv, one of the most entertaining stage players ever and the second best igl of all time (imo)
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Only thing left for Gla1ve is to prove he can reach top 1 with another set of players
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Sure, the potential is there with k0nfig and blamef, but the competition is too good rn to win with xyp in this form and a mediocre awp in Farlig. It would probably be difficult to win with an all Danish lineup as well unless there’s a roster shuffle between Astralis/Heroic/CPH Flames
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Yes, it would be best if Astralis can get Nicodoz and someone else to replace Xyp9x and Farlig. That team should do way more than current Astralis
lineup with people from 5 different cultures speaking a second language. also niko doesnt seem to be an easy player to work with
gla1ve invented counter strike, let Karrigan win a few more majors and then we can have another conversation
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Me personally never.
I think to beat Dev1ce for GOAT status one must atleast have 3 majors and 2 HLTV no.1 spot.
Similarly, 3 Majors and multiple trophies with different Orgs can also be something i will consider for GOAT IGL.
But this HLTV, only thing you get for honesty ( most of the times) is damaged neurons. So, I always choose the milder opinion.
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1. gla1ve
2. pronax
3. FalleN
4-5. karrigan/Zeus
depends i think it's glaive i was so impressed by his calling in 2018/19/20 but he has never won a tournament without device and zonic so it's hard to judge him compared to karrigan who has won with so many different teams and makes every team he joins better, only other contender for me is pronax but i don't rate him as highly as the other guys
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flaggg because it is harder to do it with 4 different teams with different nationalities
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yes but danes are biased towards astralis we already saw it in copenhagen when they cheated
Zonic and device haven't won anything after gla1ve either. They can't win without each other
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iem fall device
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Dont think that counts especially considering device's standards
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it does look at nip hltv page
dont care bro you said that they didnt won anything and you are wrong dont change the narrative
CADIAN
old astralis weren't micro-managed by gla1ve, they had top-tier decision making, templay, utility usage, comms, anything - u name it. while dev1ce isn't the "goat awper" or the "goat player", i don't think gla1ve is the goat igl either
goat player - s1mple
goat igl - karrigan
igl of the best team ever existed - gla1ve
best player of the best team ever existed - dev1ce
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gla1ve helped designing a race car and became its pilot. the car turned out to be much faster than others but gla1ve was competent to drive it, so he won 4 races. does it make him the most skilled pilot in history tho? questionable
now let's take karrigan who helped designing gla1ve's fastest car and who designed 3 more cars after that, securing a lot of top placements in the process. and eventually, he won a race too
guess u got the point. if gla1ve is the best pilot in history, please sir, design a new car and win at least 1 race driving it, confirm u can consistently design race-competing cars like karrigan. yes, right now he doesn't have materials needed to build a winning car, but he should've at least qualified for the race, u know
it's been 6+ months with the new core and i don't know what the goat igl is even doing. im an astralis fan too, but im tired of lying to myself. gla1ve needs to step up and prove himself, despite how many majors he won with the old "car"
CARRYGUN by far
karrigan!
1. karrigan
2. gla1ve
3. FalleN
Aleksib
/Closed
Gla1ve still. He innovated the way CS is being played today, and without him, FaZe might not have won.
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lmao
as much as i love karrigan, glaive has 4 majors and he changed cs utility usage.
karrigan has developed so many good players and i love him, but you cant deny how great glaive was, 4 majors and a total dominance
For me karrigan is not really in top3. he did win major now, but has crazy roster of great individuals around him. If he won it with weaker roster, I would probably give more credit for his IGL skills for this one major already. In finals karrigan might just run mid and die and still have advantage cos any other player was capable of clutching.
e.g. in inferno he just ran and died, but ropz did that 3k with that smokepeek to long??? crazy stuff
1. gla1ve
2. pronax
3. FalleN
4. karrigan
Hampus of course of all time pronax and gla1ve mabye?
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