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OK let's lay it down boys
Gla1ve 20 (4 Majors) LAN Trophies
Karrigan 18 ( 1 Major ) LAN Trophie
Point for Gla1ve
Gla1ve done it with 1 Astralis, 2 if you count one roster change Kjaerbye/Magisk.
Karrigan did it with 4 teams TSM 2015, FAZE 2017/2018, MOUZ 2019, FAZE 2022.
Point to Karrigan
International/National roster
Gla1ve Danish roster
Karrigan Danish roster, 3 international roster
Point for Karrigan
Time at the peak/NO.1/era
Not going to count how many days and stuff :D but its Gla1ve
Point for Gla1ve
The number of players to do it with (this could be the same as the teams category depending on how you look at it you don't have to count it if you don't want to)
Gla1ve 5
Karrigan around 20 (it depends if you count stand-ins)
Point to Karrigan
Final score:
2 Gla1ve - 3 Karrigan
It's much harder to win with International rosters than with National rosters every analyst and expert that knows anything about CSGO will tell you that.
Keep in mind that Gla1ve is 6 years younger and still has time to achieve more.
Also, Karrigan right now is in a better position to add more LAN Trophies into his cabinet.
My personal opinion is that Karrigan is better but I don't have a problem if someone puts Gla1ve over him its very close.
Peace.
You forgot HLTV top 20’s in which Gla1ve has 1 top 8 from 2018
15 replies
True but I consider it to be quite irrelevant for IGL.
Also, karrigan prime was in CS 1.6
but if you want to add a point for Gla1ve I can see your point
6 replies
how is it irrelevant to IGL? If fragging is not relevant at all you might as well throw in a coach instead of player
You could have the smartest 250 IQ Stephen Hawking IGL in the world but if he has Parkinsons and can't hit a shot I'd rather have no IGL and just default every round
4 replies
ur wrong, its better to 4v5 it with an igl than deafault every round. ur gonna get shut down super easly if u play that basic ur not getting any rounds. they will read when ur gonna come and save their utility, u will have to run thrue a smoke and molly at some point in the round.
the catch is allmost any tier1 pro can igl and midround better than a main igl in a tier3 team, so a tier 1 team would never be "just defaulting" allso any top top team has a secoundary caller thats good.
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Nah because defaulting precisely involves individual players mid rounding at least for themselves. A default doesn't involve heavy micromanagement beyond 'default, but banana player play passive' or 'aps player play for close aps control's. I don't mean 5 players do the exact same executes every round, no default in the world is like this. But I'd rather have the same players play the same spots every round and have them make individual plays for themselves than have an igl who literally had 0 individual impact in the game
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calling a good default with different aproaches to map control is a IGL thing. u cannot do it with no igl. and ur gonna get read by a good team, even watch something like c9 playing nuke vs faze. nafany is not a tier 1 nuke igl, so they get shut down, faze would have won their ct side with 4 players, because what matters is c9 dosent have a varied unreadable t side.
Karrigan top 8 hltv 2011
6 replies
I would include that if it were just a cs discussion but he made it clear it was regarding go.
5 replies
top 20 is individual skill right? karrigan has been there too, that's the point
4 replies
Exactly he has NOT been a good individual player in csgo.
3 replies
that's only because glaive is younger.
btw karrigan has a higher rating than glaive rn
KARRIGAN WAS TOP 20 IN 2011, 2013
bro just posted a solid danish gla1ve fangirl trap wpwp +1
2 replies
+1 :D
ratio from MSL greatest Danish igl
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Thorin I know he is your favorite but let's face the fact he was a dog of an IGL.
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lololol
If Gla1ve was a great IGL he could have proved us by showing that the New Astralis still has a lot talent like the old one but he is unable to do so.
17 replies
what gla1ve played with bubzkji xyp9x lucky unmotivated trio and inconsistentfig
12 replies
so did karrigan in MOUZ
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Karrigan got he being 12# in HLTV top 20.
Rest of his career...
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So he was good under karrigan and not good outside of karrigan? Gotcha
3 replies
wtf?? he was owning everyone in hellraisers rosters nt why do u think he went to mouz
He and Issa 2v8 top teams every game in Hellraisers and that's why people were talking about him and he got to join mouz. I like Karrigan but Karrigans stans are fucking annoying lol. You kids think Karrigan leads every atom of every player
you mean online era games with high ping? nt
your saying farlig is mediocre, bro did you watch when he was at copenhagen flames he was on the same level as nicoodoz right now. He is good he has to adapt in a team that doesn't play for him and is a t1 team. Look at broky he was not as consistent when he came to faze as he is now. When niko was igling broky was a clutch god, now is a superconsistent awper and maybe star of the team. Players have to develop, if gla1ve is that good e have to make this team a top 5 contender at least. Kariigan made him a superstar.
Lol so why didn't karrigan achieve anything with olof in 2020? No disrespect of olof or karrigan, but being a great igl doesn't mean you can win any tournament if you don't have the firepower. Sure you can win a match here and there but your big brain strats will only work if you manage to play as a team. Astralis has one of the best ancient T sides. We all know how easy it is on T side ancient right? Karrigan is the best igl rn but overall gla1ve >>>>>>
2 replies
But they went were top 4 in lan tournaments with olof))
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a discussion about who is GOAT IGL between Gla1ve and Karrigan
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impact of zonic needs to be taken into consideration i agree
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why should karrigan get point for just being internationa roster igl?
13 replies
because it is harder to lead 4 different nationalities in english?
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He won 5 tournaments with TSM's full Danish roster and they were one of the best teams of 2015 together with Envy and Fnatic.
10 replies
Yes but gla1ve led that exact same team to a major - something which karrigan couldn't lol
9 replies
How is Astralis and TSM exact same team?
6 replies
Karrigan
Kjaerbye
Device
Dupreeh
Xyp
zonic
That was the astralis lineup from May to october. How in the world is that not the same team? And yes, i am well aware that they played with 2 stand ins at the major, but regardless they didnt win anything. So there's no way they would have won the major.
5 replies
TSM included cajunb as an awper. Which means device was not awping. Adding Kjaerbye and making device a main awper seems like a complete different team.
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Where the fuck am i talking about tsm? I'm talking about the second Astralis roster, which included Kjaerbye AND Karrigan.
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You are resting to a guy talking about 2015 tsm
Now ask yourself do you even know what the topic is
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oh shit i thought you're the OP.
Im dumb sry
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That's cool man all good
5 replies
I can see where you coming from Sir but that is a different thread for a different time :D
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karrigan gf/wife have good ass tho
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TSM and Gla1ve Astralis were different rosters.
He won 5 tournaments with the 3 core who later would become the Greatest team of all time.
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They were all chokers back then. Not just karrigan.
Karrigan is also no longer a choker.
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That's why Astralis is still the best team with gla1ve as igl
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hltv.org/player/7412/gla1ve#tab-trophies..
hltv.org/player/429/karrigan#tab-trophie..
nothing else
unless karrigan wins +3 majors then Glave is the GOAT IGL
19 replies
Yes if you are using your simplistic view of looking at it then yes karrigan needs 3 more Majors just like S1mple needs 3 more to equal Device? :D
18 replies
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Well, karrigan is the best igl, not the most decorated igl, lol
5 replies
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delusional
3 replies
not comparable
and stop being so naive its not about the 3 majors karrigan still needs its about the domination and the meta gla1ve created and the calling mid round he did literally all the good IGL looked at what gla1ve was doing to imitate him, cmon now dont be delusional, he wins one major with a stacked superstar team and u call him goat??? pls u can do better
7 replies
See that is your problem you only look at majors someone has so ofc you didn't consider karrigan in the discussion until now. Just like people weren't willing to discuss Simple being the goat before he won his major but the thing is he only needed the major to end the discussion not to start it.
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wait i understand it all wrong even now while karrigan won the major i still think its not even a discussion and i am right
even if he gets 4 majors and 3 in a row he will still live under the shadow of gla1ve cz what gla1ve have done nobody has and will, im talking about changing the meta and changing the whole calling thing and dominating in every tournament including majors and not losing when it matters and being #1 for around 47 weeks, and all of that with just a good enough team and a good all around chemistry and mechanics let me put it like this last major karrigan was with faze and they didnt even make playoffs idk if they made legends lol while having broky twistz tho. the insane part is that he had to have 3 superstar in the team and a overperorming mvp rain to win the major which means its kind of a fluke and trust me next major they will not win it, why? because by the next major the teams that have made changed at the beginning of the year will adapt and its gona be more competitive, this major is the first for many players/teams and its a building phase for teams like g2 astralis nip spirit etc... next one will be stacked and 0 chance that rain will replicate the same amount of carrying he did. pls stop replying unless u have a real point to prove at this point ur wasting my time buddy
5 replies
A lot of teams have superstars these days and a lot of teams people don't rate are actually really good. So you're right, it's going to be really hard for faze to win the next major. But I don't think it's comparable in the slightest. Saying one is better than the other is hard to justify.
Calling the major win a fluke is insulting to counterstrike. They only lost 3 maps in the major and 2 in the rmr.
You are probably right as well that it is a waste of time for anyone to reply to you, but here you go.
2 replies
+1
1 reply
stop saying +1 to everything u delusional karrigan fan he will never be #1 no matter how hard u try to sell it and no matter how much copium u get he will forever be in the shadow of gla1ve who isthe best igl of all time. imagine staying all ur career average and now when u win 1 major at ur latest stage of ur career u are being called best igl of all time? cmon please ur making my whole day funnier seeing ur nonsense comments
An international team will always have superstars. Thats.....the only reason to transition into one.
Glaive will be limited to the danish scene if he's a danish leader and as it is, this is the best team he can muster.
If we are not rating igls based on individual skills what should be rank them on?
Trophies ofc lmao
because they got a sport psychologist in february 2018 just before Magisk joined
hltv.org/news/25672/the-mind-game-meta-a..
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how? pls tell me so I can understand where you coming from
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I just did
karrigan second best IGL in the history of CSGO. I don't think I need to explain why.
I think karrigan is straight better igl
his calls, map pool, reads, leadership etc is best in the world
but u cant deny fact there is huge gap in achievements
if karrigan wins 1 more major + grand slam
then we are talking
5 replies
karrigan has only 2 fewer Trophies than Gla1ve.
Gla1ve has 3 more Majors but karrigan has done it with the international roster which is harder.
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#49
yes and they choked( mostly NIKO) + C9 overachieved and dibanded shortly after but karrigan has redeem himself.
1 reply
fkin NiKO man, cost GuardiaN his retirement
International roster doesnt mean harder lmao
Lol, you act as if having an international roster is a huge downgrade when the mans has had the likes of niko, ropz, twistzz, etc on his teams. I can understand if he had to lead some random shitters but come on.
Also why is it 1 point for each. Glaive should probably get points for rating/HLTV top 20, also point /extra points for IGS, longest era, etc
But why am I writing this when I dont really care is the real question? :thinking:
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Yes having an international roster is a downgrade bc you have to speak in the second language. And the extra few seconds you have to process the information are crucial. No matter the players just look at Vitality.
Every analyst will tell you that.
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Callouts are usually said in english no matter is the team international or not. It doesn't take you that long if you are used to speaking English. I mean sure it has some impact but come on man
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Sorry, I take every Analyst's opinion and that then HLTV users.
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I use common sense. Pls show me a clip of an analyst saying that and I can maybe rethink again
"Callouts are usually said in english no matter is the team international or not"
Ok
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I think everyone knows the english callouts…
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Bruh, yesterday I learned that newbox is "triple" lol, so no
Also, we are talking about calls an igl makes.
And people can forget callouts :/
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Pretty sure they practise those calls before just making them up in-game
i kinda agree but this is stupid
karrigan number of gaming.dk bans and fines 0, gla1ve 1, 1 point for karrigan
karrigan number of trophies with cajunb 7, gla1ve 0, 1 point for karrigan
gla1ve blast pro series won, 4 points for gla1ve (1 for each blast pro series),
gla1ve 4-2 karrigan
Cringe
Karrigan has been in the pro cs scene since 1.6 . It is not easy to stay at the top for this long. Maybe the teams he led didn’t acquire a lot of results, but ... it’s not easy to stay in tier 1 cs for more than 20 years. Hats of to Carrygan, but atm he is one of the best igl-s out there.
Anyone who thinks karrigan is better than gla1ve is delusional or a faze fan, its really like messi ronaldo debate if u watch and understand football you know its not even close and messi levels ahead of ronaldo. same here: as simple as it may sound karrigan is nowhere near gla1ve and it is really a disrespect to compare him to gla1ve.. like how dare you hahaha, karrrigan achieved 15%-20% of what gla1ve achieved while idk maybe 7 years older than him and at the end of his career. If you understand csgo you should know its undebatable. and for people who say zonic was the reason or devve carried them or whatever.... just a reminder that karrigan played with that same astralis (hell even with kjarbye which was a better astralis lol) and achieved nothing but chocking in all tournaments and majors and they had to kick him eventually. and this thread is completely useless. what the fuck u actually mean by saying karrigan made it with 4 different teams?... he made it only with 1 team and its faze and he made it only because he had a 4 superstar team... litereally getting carried but whatever. please dont tell me that when u said has made it with 4 different teams u mean when mouz won a cs_summit with tier 2-3 teams participating and a 10 000$ prize. Ahh im laughing at the delusion here :D
11 replies
Is this copypasta?
Mouz won EPL 10 when they beat in the semifinals of 2019 Astralis.
10 replies
astralis chocked that one cz in home crowd but ok ill give u that, so they won one epl and they are insane?
hey heroic won epl and cadian 1v4 clutched vs #1 team gambit with eco no armor, so based on your poor logic and poor iq cadiaN > gla1ve+karrigan. damn educate yourself about cs pls xd
3 replies
So now choking is fine from Astralis but when Kariggan does it people gonna repeat it until the end of time :D
1 reply
man choking once < choking in every event on a constant basis and eliminated from every major bcz of ur igl, and what the fuck are u even talking about at this point my point was to end the debate of igls and u shifted into choking? and u even put karrigan most choker in the bracket? what? im not gona respond to you obviously ur a MM gold nova who understands shit in cs and a faze diehard whos tryna prove a delusional point cya
5 replies
I would have read it but you didn't use paragraphs.
4 replies
2 replies
I read it and you prove my point.
You are just butthurt that I even consider the discussion :D
I never said that Karigan was miles better.
How dare I ? :D
Jesus this just proves you are nothing but a delusional fanboy.
Maybe you should enlighten yourself on the outside world.¨
Gonna talk to other people here who at least use brain and are not just fanboys :D
1 reply
i never said that u think karrrigan was miles better, i said totally the opposite i said gla1ve is miles better and it should never be a conversation between gla1ve and karrigan cz what gla1ve did nobody can do and im not being a fan boy like you. i am talking to you from a cs watcher point of view im totally neutral u are the one who cant belive karrigan won his first major and tryna poke the idea of him being the goat igl just cz he had 4 superstars in the team pls stop it ur embarassing urself even more as this goes :D
gla1ve is actually overrated
it is like blad3 directing navi over boombl4
zonic actually controlled the whole astralis
he just had goat players with the highest peak
4 majors are something really crazy but i think karrigan is better
Imagine gla1ve on the 2018 Faze roster, you think they choke in the finals vs c9? This narrative needs to end, Karrigan is not there yet, and probably will never get there. He’s a great player and the obvious choice for second best, but majors are the most important tournaments in csgo, and gla1ve has 4 times the amount of karrigan
3 replies
No he wouldn't because they wouldn't even have been even close to the finals lmaoo. International lineups have only worked and been good enough to win tournaments under karrigan for a reason.
Of course not, cause they would't qualify for the champions stagw.
the only reason i favor gla1ve is cause ive seen him call astralis back into games that lead to titles
youtube.com/watch?v=ZljPRQXgIfQ
46:50 - one of the greatest force rounds of all time
To me glaive is on top1 simply because if Peak Astralis met FaZe yesterday in the finals, they would stomp them. Im a fan of Karrigans, and im so freaking happy he got that major its so deserved - but Glaive was just on another level back then. A Couple weeks ago, i watched some of Astralis major finals, and its incomparable
5 replies
This is hard to prove. You are right in that it's incomparable - but you compared them anyway :) nobody knows who would win between those two teams and noone ever will.
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I have watched them :) still don't think it's obvious
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yea with using nvidia and radar exploit?
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what cry? gla1ve used nvidia and radar exploit in his "era" great igl
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at least karrigan doesnt use exploits to win games LUL
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m0nesy used exploit too but didnt got banned so? did olof got banned back in 2014?
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so using exploits to win games thx
4 replies
You still call it "exploit".
It doesn't change the visual output of the game.
Its like photoshopping every image between the game and the player, but not the image the game actually produces - just like color vibrance.
Go on Google and search for Nvidia Freestyle, you might actually somehow learn a thing or two,
With your logic, pros shouldn't be allowed to alter monitor settings what-so-ever.
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gla1ve used the smoke exploit + nvidia settings so nt
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If we include 1.6, then no😂
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I agree, ave is better thaKarrigan and Gla1ve in 1.6 and csgo
4 majors > 1 majors. Also gl1ave established an incredibly solid era but gets lower kudos because he hasn’t moved teams loads?
CS is also much more competitive nowadays.
this is a very good analysis with karrigan showing to be better, but the raw weight and impact of glaive winning 4 majors AND being the reason astralis were so dominant (the teamplay) might make him better alltime. if karrigan wins 1 more major or the grand slam its him for me but rn its equal
1 reply
The teamplay can be greatly attributed to Karrigan tho. Somehow every team he has seems to mesh together very well, and that is not a coincidence.
the problem of calling out glaive for not having an international roster is
Why would you kick an IGL because of whom you are the number 1 team in the world? In essence, the reason why karrigan led so many international rosters because he was never able to find a solid team to believe in...Boston major Faze was a top dog but after the choke, his team stopped believing in him. this is what happened in TSM,now Astralis and now in Faze Clan 2018 as well.
While it's true that Karrigan got the core of device dupreeh xyp9x to the top of the scene, it was glaive who got them to the very top of the scene.
also, glaive depending on zonic does seem a bit incorrect- zonic was with the core of DDX even when karrigan was on board the team but only started winning and dominating when glaive came to astralis. It's like saying- glaive and zonic share a symbiotic relationship with one another if you will
It depends on the metric you use to define the best, especially for an IGL its kinda hard to rate them..
Like for example in terms of achievements and what not its clearly gla1ve so far at least.
If you want to built a team from a scratch and to be on the top time and time again it is a very underrated aspect of an IGL in my opinion and from what we have seen from karrigan he has done that as for gla1ve we cant really fault him that he hasn't won with multiple roster because he didn't needed to, he got very early success and didn't needed to hop from 1 team to another like karrigan.
But I think that is what makes karrigan special in his own way as well, for being among the top consistently which no one has ever done for this long
It really comes down to what you value the most or you can just appreciate the both for what they have achieved which no one else has not among themselves as well
I think you got this completly wrong. You can say that every IGL is worse than karrigan when you set it up like this. Gla1ve has been part of the most dominant era there ever has been. Being with 4 different rosters doesn't make him better than Gla1ve.
Gla1ve is one of the most accomplished players in csgo. There is a reason why he didn't join another team. It wasn't neccessary since Astralis were so dominant. Karrigan had the chance to do it with Astralis, but it didn't work out.
karrigan bestest
good comparison with fun facts
Karrigan have Dual master degrees in BA and auditing
Gla1ve have nothing
1 reply
Lmao
1 reply
Yes, I did problem 😎
glaive washed
your 2nd and 5th points are basically same, you've just added the last one to give karrigan one more points lol
5 replies
Typed it in the thread. Learn to read.
4 replies
yeah, and I implied it again what u gon do, give another points to karrigan lol
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Why did you imply what I already implied by implying it again and now you are implying it again.
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I don't want to imply that implying that I implied something that you already implied something is "implyible", but I wanna imply that it is.
1 reply
Alright sir you won this round.
IF faze win everything this year including another major he is definately better than glave
you deserve to be 10 yeared
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name checks out :D
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Gotta take a break from constant baiting :D
And that massive choke in the finals?. KARRIGAN had a superteam but he choked the finals. And playing in international roster is a matter of adaptation. Karrigan is playing in ENGLISH for years, he probably doesnt have many problems with communication, the same goes for everyone in his roster(rain, ropz, broky,twistzz...), this FAZE team have a lot of experience playing international. (All the players from vitality have zero experience playing international, this is why the project didnt work) And when you play international you have the chance to get the best players from any nationality. While if you play just in danish you have to get the best players from only your country.
wtf????? it doesntt even make sense. Look at the data you used.
1 reply
Yes, problem?
Karrigan did it in his 30, glaive did it in hot 20s
1 point for karrigan also
Im not sure glaive can still performing in 32 years age
Didnt Karrigan recommend Glaive when he left Astralis?
Karrigan best IGL in CSGO, peak Astralis best team in CSGO, debate closed
Astralis as a unite (including Zonic, this shouldn't be understated) was incredible but so far there's nothing that proves Gla1ve can be back on the top with a different roster
karrigan literally built Astralis and their core, gla1ve made them the consistent #1 team.
In my eyes both of them should get the credit for the Astralis era, as we can see gla1ve is nothing without the core and is not able to build such a team from scratch as fast as karrigan did.
I would say they both have very different qualities but imo karrigan is the more valuable IGL because he can build decent teams out of nothing, hell even Envy looked so much better in the short time he was there,
Good points, but the main problem is that you cant compare success with international and national rosters. Why? Because there is no point changing rosters for gla1ve, since the roster was so successful. Theres a reason why karrigan has been in so many international rosters, because at the end of his tenure in these rosters, they dont perform well.
Karrigain is better now, but in the past glaive was better
Karrigan grindr for 10+ years
Gla1ve just paycheck stealer at this point
your third and fourth points are the same as the second, using different words does not change the overall meaning of your comparison and it seems a bit too biased for karrigan.
Gla1ve #1 of all times and it's not even close if you think Karrigan is even close you are straight out trolling and should get hardware ban from HLTV.
1. Gla1ve
2. Happy/Pronax
3. Pronax/Happy
4. Karrigan
1 reply
Happy over karrigan lmao.
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I already had him as one of the best IGLs ever.
Not my problem you only look at majors to decide what players are best in csgo history.
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