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People are too accepting of bad players
YEKINDAR | 
Denmark Goatkindar 
It is so weird to me, when a team like g2, has a player like jackz, that people don't want to see him kicked. People always pull out the card, that they are supporting the team, which they probably are, but why would you not want a better supporting player? Like do you not think s1mple would perform way better than jackz, even if he was in jackz roles, so, therefore, being support is not an excuse. Some players are just not performing and should stop paycheckstealing. Look at this thread, when hooxi is feeding on g2.
2022-08-08 23:07
Topics are hidden when running Sport mode.
0/8 someone didn't understand the dynamics behind teams
2022-08-08 23:08
17 replies
#21
 | 
New Zealand JayX7
+1
2022-08-09 00:01
+1 good support players give their team mates .5 rating by being solid at doing shit roles. Average viewer does not see that and he magically thinks that everyone should have 35 kills per game showcasing lack of understanding of math that there simply isn't that many possible kills in a match without 6 overtimes. Even then it's likely one player will burn out and not reach 35. inerz, tizian, rush when he was in a decent team, amanek could do it - basically players who are decent at everything and understand every role in the system and how to slot in there if needed. And it's usually players who don't need micromanaging, he understands when IGL tells other person what to do any he just follows it. They will always perform worse than average so team can perform better, it's simple math.
2022-08-09 09:01
15 replies
#25
 | 
United States 1Tuurtle
Very well said
2022-08-09 11:26
wanted to say +0.05 rating, not .5
2022-08-09 12:59
2 replies
bad support player adds +0.05 rating, +0.5 rating to enemy
2022-08-10 09:15
1 reply
that is true, for support player needs to be jack of all trades and master of none and brain over brawn type of player. best support players tend to not enforce many duels unlike star riflers who will jump in way more often for a 50-50. You see many try to even avoid duels early
2022-08-10 09:50
I would love to see a "superstar" like s1mple or Niko play the shitty anchor role on ct and see how their stats would change
2022-08-09 13:10
No one asking for that bs exaggeration, we want jackz to not struggle dropping more than 10 kills every other map which he doesnt cause hes inconsistent as fuck
2022-08-09 18:11
5 replies
Jackz did struggle, he fell off since they've changed the language. If you look at Jackz in French G2 and English G2 it almost looks like it's not the same player. Jackz is not your average support player, that's not the best way to utilize him. Jackz struggled because of English and because his role is shit there, he's a bitch for hunter and monesy. He had very little freedom on top of struggling with language so there wasn't much of an opportunity for him to shine. I am not putting it all on system, but it definitely contributed to it. I am 100% sure that Jackz will have resurgence in a French team and go back to his previous form.
2022-08-09 20:18
4 replies
he was shit even before the change
2022-08-10 02:52
3 replies
don't know man, saw some older demos - he was doing much better and was way quicker to flank, adjust and just react off of his team.
2022-08-10 09:05
2 replies
yeah but his much better raised him only to about 1.05 during that period, which isnt bad he was just inconsistent still back then, but slowly and slowly stopped entrying all together and stats dropped more and more
2022-08-10 09:12
1 reply
1.05 is above average player and being for example a third star with 1.05 can get your team pretty far. Most riflers struggle with inconsistency, everyone except Niko because he reached 37 maps with rating above 1. Next best rifler is at 11. S1mple has 31. You also have to take into account that with limitations of language his confidence must have went down a bit, no one is impervious to it. I am not saying Jackz is a god tier player, I am saying he's a decent rifler and that he's NOT a support player. Bad stats don't mean a support, in recent G2 he was just a filler who did not fit there. Wrong fit =/= support player
2022-08-10 09:42
Tell me a winner team that had one guy massively dragging behind others. Someone not IGL obviously.
2022-08-10 09:19
3 replies
apex has 0.9 rating playing star player roles (connector, outside nuke, banana, rotator) and Vitality won more than few tournaments. But they can't be first as long as player who plays most important positions looses way more duels than he wins. They can win tournaments. To add to it, with such wins and apex playing positions with such high engagement - his rating is INFLATED. His actual rating is lower than 0.9, if we look at other cases where player move from those positions and to those positions it's probably about 0.1. No one can be first while having that, then can spike but not hold it, to abuse apex all you need to do is spend first 5 rounds throwing all 10 flashes in his face, then his mental instability kicks in and you are playing 5v4. Zywoo is a God, but even a god can't win many 4v5. Also, support players don't drag behind too much, HLTV sees anything under 1.0 and think it's a bot
2022-08-10 09:48
2 replies
Apex is IGL so you wrote all that for nothing. So you cant name me a single team? I cant either, and thats the point. In close history there isnt one.
2022-08-10 10:04
1 reply
If you listen to comms Magisk is calling most of the things, he's just quicker to sum up the setup and say what needs to be said. While apex is technically an igl, it's not a clear cut. Even dupreeh makes a lot of calls. But it's also hard to discuss it because rating is inflated when your team wins a lot so no one is dragging - you simply have more favorable rounds to do things that effect rating. When you loose a lot you drop. Rating is far from being a perfect metric of anything, it's hard to take rating of two players and compare it 1-1 even if they play same roles. So there's more to it, Perfecto would be a good example of a player with rating above what he's actually worth in rating but because Navi is plowing everyone but Faze his rating is up.
2022-08-10 14:29
Yes, X player is worse than s1mple so it's not an excuse and he should get kicked
2022-08-08 23:09
2 replies
Lmao +1
2022-08-09 13:05
werent you banned?
2022-08-10 12:26
cry is free
2022-08-08 23:09
On one hand, their does need to be an element of chemistry and a good vibe going on but at the same time IMO it would be kinda boring if the entire cs scene was full of bland personalities like syrson
2022-08-08 23:10
toxic players dont ruin games, bad players do
2022-08-08 23:10
9 replies
disagreed, the very few soloq MM games ive played ive abandoned as soon as someone is annoying
2022-08-08 23:23
6 replies
You haven't heard this meme before?
2022-08-08 23:33
5 replies
of course i have, but the amount of people that genuinely agree with the "meme" is insane
2022-08-08 23:37
4 replies
not necessarily wrong, but toxic players also lose games too
2022-08-09 00:50
3 replies
toxic players don't ruin games, bad players do
2022-08-10 09:10
2 replies
Flag checks out. Lost count on how many times toxic turks ruined games.
2022-08-10 09:27
1 reply
they're not toxic tbh, they're ignorant, selfish and delusional.
2022-08-10 10:00
case and point, stew2k
2022-08-09 13:01
#41
 | 
Puerto Rico Dragoark
This but unironically
2022-08-09 18:15
Roles are an excuse for not having great stats but the problem is when you have some of the worst stats in all of T1 like Jackz did. Every team has someone playing roles like that so if your stats are some of the lowest in all of T1 you are probably still playing poorly
2022-08-08 23:11
I don't need to look at this thread, I will be to busy watching the actual games while you just watch match pages and stats to form your shitty opinion. /close
2022-08-08 23:12
Jackz is a good support player, he suffers from huNter’s play style, and how frag heavy huNter, NiKo and m0NESY are. Just like how gla1ve, or Karrigan or Stewie’s numbers got significantly worse when playing a support role after adding high lvl fraggers. Or for another example, SANJI was a solid support, however since he constantly dropped Awps and weapons to the fraggers of VP, his stats suffered, resulting in him being kicked. I suspect Jackz will probably look like a star entry in tier 2.
2022-08-08 23:14
4 replies
Yeah, he'll probably entry in HEET
2022-08-08 23:21
This is just so many horrible examples. Both glaive and stewie had pretty good ratings, with glaive being pretty high up in the top 20 at one point. Also VP got better as soon as they kicked sanji, and brought in fl1t.
2022-08-09 11:18
1 reply
Ofc VP improved short term when they brought in FL1T, this is CS baby, when ever there’s a problem stick a fragger over it. And what do you know, they improve for like a couple months, then all of the sudden buster is the problem, his stats have become horrible. Replacing the support with a fragger is a tale as old as time in CS and it only ever works short term. Also Jackz had really good ratings before he was pushed into the support role. On NV in 2017 he had a 1.13, then I’m his 1st year on G2, a 1.16, then when they added huNter his ratings dropped every year.
2022-08-09 15:13
jackz was much MUCH better when they've played in French. Like MUCH better, his reactions, rotations, micromanagement, he was faaaaaar more responsive with it. And a very quick player to respond to things and do what needs to be done. His English is pretty poor so I think he lost a lot when they switched languages. His role in past 6 months was to be a sidekick for hunter and monesy, so very little room to do his own things. I believe that going to French roster will give Jackz a resurgence, he's one of the best aimers around and with some freedom and native language I feel like he could show up in a much better light.
2022-08-09 13:05
Support players were always at the top of my list of favorite players in their teams - I liked them better than the star players, like styko, xyp, taco etc.
2022-08-08 23:17
2 replies
#15
 | 
Brazil hugoooo
Damn you're weird
2022-08-08 23:25
1 reply
When you understand tactical aspect of the game on the higher level then this is not weird. Then you also understand how hard it is to be a support player, one round you start as entry, then go lurk cause lurker died and then you are left in 1v2 clutch where you need to play like a star. Next 3 rounds you sit in corner of B and do nothing. After that you end up being second guy in line. Then awper dies and you pick it up. And all that to have a low rating because as entry you will be worse than a dedicated entry, as lurk you will be worse than a guy who spent years doing that, as awper you just cannot be as good as dedicated one, as a guy who trades you can't be as good as a dedicated etc. But unlike either of those dedicated guys - you do it all and take each of their roles depending on current needs and who is alive.
2022-08-09 13:12
#10
 | 
Guatemala ChurchGuy
Just replace all 5 players with s1mple, ez wins ))))
2022-08-08 23:18
-aleksiB +sunny (more firepower) Surely will work out?
2022-08-08 23:20
Well a support player image heavily depends on what his teammates talk about him and how they describe his impact. And jackz had this bromance with hunter who praised him a lot. It's more than enough for fans to defend him
2022-08-08 23:26
from my little experience leading teams, the worse players but better personalities in the long run have always lead to better results. It probably works slightly differently at the pro scene, but team chemistry is massively underrated in my opinion in cs. FaZe would not do nearly as well if they all had big ego's and wanted to all be the star player instead of playing in a system
2022-08-08 23:27
1 reply
can only agree to that and had some experience leading a low level team to a little bit of pricemoney People are not robots and how the people in ur team act, tone of their voice, possible negative or positive reaction when u are starting to get stressed out etc etc will determine how high the chances are to bounce back for example Really important that u are on the same page on a personal level
2022-08-10 14:46
+1 stop defending paycheck stealers
2022-08-08 23:29
+1 I think G2 shouls kick monesy and hooxi (possibly even jks) and sign s1mple (awp) zywoo (support) and axile (igl).
2022-08-09 11:29
1 reply
why would you have axile igl when you got a veteran igl like niko
2022-08-10 03:56
#30
 | 
Asia loveall
Yes. Zywoo, s1mple, NiKo, sh1ro, Ax1Le should be in one team. 100% win rate. Don't know why no org is trying this.
2022-08-09 13:03
#34
 | 
Finland HARD4ENCE
People, including myself, are accepting on bad players on teams that on a fundamental level are not expected to win (like NA teams) coz majority of the players in those teams are not that great. But teams that have say, 3 or 4 extremely good players and 1 or 2 individuals are seemingly dragging them down, then people are not accepting. Coz that kind of teams should be in contention for titles every day of the week.
2022-08-09 13:12
#36
 | 
Czech Republic Evis1337
ur mge player shut your mouth
2022-08-09 13:13
Wow. How can you take obv facts and then come to so wrong conclusion when putting them together?
2022-08-09 15:10
#39
JW | 
Sweden EntonXD
Players always bring more than what you can see, but likeable players are almost always treated better and are given more passes. Jks will be a great addition for g2, plays A anchor roles like jackz and if he takes hunters roles he will be great on the t side. In complexity, he didnt get to play his roles because blamef had them. Hooxi has to be the sacrificial lamb of the team with hunter to refrag. Jks passive lurk Niko aggressive lurk/entry M0nesy aggressive awp Hunter pack entry and refragger Hooxi igl and spacemaker.
2022-08-09 15:27
There's more to a making a team than having 5 players who can shoot really well. Unless you're Faze.
2022-08-09 20:26
jackz is easily in the top 20 best mechanics/aim in the entire game, and in my opinion one of the best at his roles.
2022-08-10 04:06
Real question will be, how long are they going to keep Hooxi until they find someone more impactful player?
2022-08-10 04:18
#48
oBo | 
Lebanon kvth
delusional
2022-08-10 04:21
Yeah man can't imagine people like having farlig in astralis
2022-08-10 09:21
jackz one major final yekindar zero major final
2022-08-10 09:50
#60
NEO | 
Poland sedi
there is a deficiency of good players
2022-08-10 09:54
Why just focus on blaming JacKz when you have literal gods through out the whole line up? What's their excuse? People seem to forget how many lower skilled teams have dominated the scene comparing to these international star studded line ups. International teams are killing this scene, the only time an international team will have an era is when the whole scene is international aka a lower level of play.
2022-08-10 10:23
People are too accepting of mentally weak players. Niko, despite his out of this world talent still hasn't achieved anything noteworthy. Because people accept his weakness as something he can't fix.
2022-08-10 10:25
#65
 | 
France MarioReL
Jackzz in HEET will look like tier1, at least i believe from what i've seen during his time in DBL Poney. In JACKZZ we trust
2022-08-10 10:48
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