Forum thread: hltv raking wtf ?

Because they failed to Pay 2 million bucks to Blast in order to get access to the Blast finals, so 2nd at major + Blast finals > major winners

2022-11-30 20:34

51 replies

2022-11-30 20:35

3 replies

100% manipulation. Heroic 1st place? That's insane. And you will be told that this is how it should be. There will be people with Stogolm syndrome and so on....

2022-12-01 15:01

2 replies

let outsiders proof in world final that they are no1

2022-12-01 19:41

1 reply

Yeah, or let's win the semi-blast and become top 1. How it happened.

2022-12-06 18:02

yes but this make no sense, ranking should be set on who win against who and who win the most important tournament

2022-11-30 20:35

27 replies

yes and no, if you only look at who beats who then you easily get into situations where x beats y, y beats z, and z beats x. the ranking still makes sense generally, just this situation is a fug

2022-11-30 20:37

24 replies

thats why you have to count big tournaments in, and major is just the tournament that should set the best team in the world

2022-11-30 20:40

23 replies

the thing is that the hltv ranking is not meant to be a power ranking. A power ranking shows the team that is the best at the moment, the hltv ranking is meant to show the team that is consistently the best

2022-11-30 20:42

BO3 finale proves nothing about the "best" team in the world.

2022-11-30 21:04

21 replies

if u are at the final of the major it means you beat all the best teams in the world

2022-11-30 21:05

20 replies

No, it doesn't. BO1 system can fuck a lot of best teams up.

2022-11-30 21:08

13 replies

after bo1 u have to go through bo3

2022-11-30 21:08

12 replies

And u lose 1 game and you're gone. If you were unlucky in BO1s and went 0:2.

2022-11-30 21:09

11 replies

thats why the best team in the world should win all bo1 and bo3 possible

2022-11-30 21:10

10 replies

I guess, but the system is still flawed. Because some weaker team can play against even weaker teams and get far into the major.

2022-11-30 21:11

9 replies

yes but the best team in the world shouldnt lose against weaker

2022-11-30 21:13

what type of tournament format would you recomment in a major?

2022-11-30 23:38

5 replies

street fight (no knifes, only fists) 5v5

2022-12-01 04:06

3 replies

+1 The Australian way

2022-12-01 08:59

2 replies

Come to Bra.. khm Australia

2022-12-01 12:50

1 reply

But i'm scared

2022-12-01 13:21

BO5/BO7 finale split in two days.

2022-12-01 10:06

Not reay there is kwng teams and bo3 would take too long when there so many games and everyone plays same rounds. Also major finals should be bo5 cause only best current team wouodnsurvive such big map pool. Means less flukes but also id say harder for inexpierenced teams

2022-12-01 14:28

1 reply

Just as I said, go for BO5 or BO7 split in two days. We could get some amazing comebacks from 0:3 to 4:3.

2022-12-01 23:44

The best teams in the world? Fnc? Mouz?

2022-11-30 21:43

5 replies

clearly 😎🤙

2022-11-30 21:54

funnily if the final brackets were switched, mouz would have probably gone on to be 2nd instead of heroic lol

2022-12-01 00:29

3 replies

mouz is not a good team

2022-12-01 03:24

2 replies

heroic isn't either

2022-12-01 03:43

1 reply

i didn’t see your flair. no point in arguing with a delusional no scener.

2022-12-01 03:45

Power scaling doesnt work. If bne beats faze in a bo3, and faze has an era before that, then bne > peak faze. No no no

2022-12-01 03:36

the rankings aren't perfect because the circuit isn't perfect. HLTV does an okay job at breaking it down mathematically, but the issue is numbers don't reflect real world variables. The only conclusive way would be to have a consistent scheduled "season" with a points reset in the post season, but then there's the issue of who sanctions it, and if it's Valve, then at that point Valve needs to run an organized league of sorts

2022-12-01 05:00

u ok? outsiders gonna be be there

2022-11-30 20:37

2 replies

I'm talking about the Fall finals which led to Heroic being #1 now. Outsiders will be at the World Finals

2022-11-30 20:38

1 reply

Oh, didn't notice that it also had "finals" in name

2022-12-01 07:47

Not correct, blast didn’t want Russians. Not even cloud9 despite major org is there.

2022-11-30 20:45

14 replies

The Blast circuit was created long before the war, not wanting russians isn't the reason, it's just that VP and C9(who didn't have a proper team when the Blast partners were announced) didn't get into the "franchise"

2022-11-30 20:48

13 replies

Wrong, it was announced months ago that Russian orgs are uninvited from blast events. You think it’s a coincidence Russians are missing from blast suddenly? Hahahaha, literally has 0 to do with money. *russian teams

2022-11-30 20:49

12 replies

Outsiders and C9 would still have been allowed to play Blast, the only issue was russian orgs which wouldn't have been an issue here. If VP had been a partner team, I'm pretty positive that Outsiders could've competed as their replacement, the same way as they have with ESL

2022-11-30 20:55

11 replies

You think so but it’s not true. Outsiders complained not long ago that they don’t get many invites to tournament. One of those they complained about is of course blast. C9 or Gambit since war had same problem. Has nothing to do with org, Russian major teams are not invited for Blast, only exception with Outsiders that fluked major and now are invited to world finals. This is old news, also lol @ your “2 million” nonsense

2022-11-30 20:59

10 replies

Nobody is invited to Blast dude. It is all partner teams or people who qualify to the showdown through various smaller qualifiers.

2022-11-30 21:00

7 replies

Then you’re wrong, there’s multiple ways to qualify for Blast and a team like C9 or Outsiders would’ve easily had the chance to do so, why do you think weaker teams qualified and two good teams didn’t? You’re naive bro. It’s a fact that Russian teams are not invited to blast events. End of story. Go google it

2022-11-30 21:03

5 replies

There is exactly one way to qualify for Blast, it's the showdown. And it is not worth the effort for most teams

2022-11-30 21:05

4 replies

That’s wrong too, Fall Groups / Spring Group is the usual way for teams to qualify for the Final and Outsiders / C9 were not even invited to play there. :) Simply accept the facts. ESL is trash, they like to tolerate Russians. Because of $$$$

2022-11-30 21:07

3 replies

Dude... The Fall groups and Spring groups only consist of partner teams which paid to get there, that is exactly my point...

2022-11-30 21:08

2 replies

Maybe, but C9 and Outsiders doesn’t even have the permission to play Showdown. Google outsiders interview, someone of outsiders mentioned that they don’t get many invites to tournaments. Russians are persona non grata, aside from ESL that are Putin understanders, nobody wants the problems and strange feeling.

2022-11-30 21:11

1 reply

Clown emoji

2022-12-01 07:48

C9 and Outsiders werent even invited to Open Qualifires though..

2022-12-01 00:29

If VP was a partner team, no way they would get blocked by blast.

2022-12-01 03:38

1 reply

Big if, blast didn’t want it since the war. And there is no VP either.

2022-12-01 04:12

HahHahahaha yeah hltv ranking could be done better.

2022-12-01 14:23

because heroic won the next tournament and got more points

2022-11-30 20:34

true #1 determined at BLAST world final (faze)

2022-11-30 20:34

Because Heroic has done more recently in terms of total results over a longer time period

2022-11-30 20:41

Yep, the hltv top has too much of a recency bias

2022-11-30 20:43

2 replies

Sometimes yeah but is that true in this case? I feel like the recency bias here would be keeping Outsiders #1 because they won the most recent Major, despite the fact that they've had a pretty mediocre year otherwise. Heroic came 2nd at the major, won the Fall Finals, and have generally placed better throughout the rest of the year than Outsiders, so them moving up isn't surprising. (Yes, flair checks out)

2022-12-01 00:35

It goes both ways. Big results are rewarded heavily, both on short term and long term. That's also why Astralis could still dominate the rankings although they intentionally skipped big event to prevent exhaustion and their tactics being stale. It isn't recency bias. If you wanted to make a good point, you could argue that the HLTV ranking doesn't take into account the teams that aren't there. But then again you also have teams whose playstyle matches other teams' playstyles well.. although they aren't necessarily at the same level of competitiveness in the scene. There is no easy solution to either scenario. Perhaps there is none at all.

2022-12-01 02:34

Outsiders had a lot of luck anyway. Fluke Major run

2022-11-30 20:47

22 replies

Botus botcere is the true major fluke here. I mean who was on their way? Gambit youngsters back when they were still on liners? Heroic with 4 players attending their first major? G2 with JACKZ and aManek?

2022-11-30 21:27

19 replies

Lulquid fan malding here :D Navi most deserved major winner ever. Facts.

2022-11-30 21:29

18 replies

Navi was playing in a low competition era, and the proof is that as soon as faze got better, Navi lost to them, and then they lost to cloud9, and then to g2, and then to liquid, and then to furia As soon as teams found better players botus botcere stopped winning anything.

2022-11-30 21:41

17 replies

Yea sure bro, Navi haters will always talk nonsense like that. Bye, keep hating and malding

2022-11-30 21:43

10 replies

still havent provided a single argument other than "ur a hater"

2022-11-30 23:42

9 replies

Not interested in talking to a hater. :) haters gonna hate.

2022-12-01 00:24

8 replies

the only team navi beat was NiKo, hes not wrong.

2022-12-01 00:43

7 replies

He’s absolutely wrong , Navi 2021 was a very strong team. :)

2022-12-01 00:45

6 replies

easy to look strong when every other team is looking weak

2022-12-01 00:53

5 replies

Nice try hater :) you’re jealous

2022-12-01 01:37

4 replies

jealous of who? p1mple? toxic guy who rages at even his friends and teammates?

2022-12-01 12:21

3 replies

Yes.

2022-12-01 19:35

2 replies

why would i be lol

2022-12-01 21:02

1 reply

All haters are the same

2022-12-01 22:06

Crazy how teams get better as time passes right? Such a crazy concept. Also, NaVi had one of the hardest major runs ever, beating Gambit, Vitality, and G2 in the playoffs. Astralis would not have been dominant against current teams either

2022-12-01 02:22

5 replies

2022-12-01 04:10

gambit were onliners at that time vitality had bots like misutaaa and kyojin g2 had no dedicated awper wow such good teams!

2022-12-01 12:22

3 replies

Right now NaVi : stand in + war Cloud9 : Onliners Heroic: Onliners and comedians Outsiders: ok but not consistently challenging for wins Astralis: trash awper G2: HooXi and Aleksib NiP: REZ awping Vitality: apEX Spinx and dupreeh Wow so good scene. I don’t think you understand such a simple concept but teams are never perfect and always have issues, this fact will never change.

2022-12-01 21:00

2 replies

cis also have to deal with war, 0 iq excuse c9: won a lan heroic: won a lan + jabbi fits more than refrezh outsiders: won a major vitality: won a lan + spinx and dupreeh are better than kyojin and misutaaa you also ignored faze and liquid. this scene is highly competitive, much more than when navi won their fluke major

2022-12-02 00:06

1 reply

It’s “highly competitive” because everyone is trash just like in 2021 (except NaVi). If you want perfect teamplay your gonna be waiting a LONG time. So stop invalidating NaVi’s run

2022-12-02 00:22

0/8

2022-12-01 03:25

1 reply

#86

2022-12-01 04:11

Teams that don't play after major will not rank anymore, only team that qualifie for blast Like Furia, probably will lose spot to og or g2 cuz g2 and og will play blast and furia dont

2022-11-30 20:58

this is the same ranking system that put Vitality to #1 after they played shit for weeks and went 3-2 during the Challengers stage (teams that went straight to Legends from the RMR barely gained points in comparison). An hour later they were eliminated from the Major. It's been a mickey mouse ranking for like 6 months now...

2022-11-30 21:00

2 replies

Sums up my point of view. Outsiders lost 130 points for a tournament they couldnt play.

2022-12-02 00:46

+11

2022-12-02 01:00

There’s not a big difference between winning major or other S tier tournaments that are huge like Blast. Yea major is more worth but it’s not worth more than 1st and 2nd place. Outsiders is not good enough

2022-11-30 21:00

9 replies

wdym outsiders is not good enough, im sure out of 10 times outsiders beat heroic 7 at least

2022-11-30 21:02

6 replies

With that I mean not good enough to be on Rank 1. In general i think they are #5 at best. Heroic, faze, Navi, vitality are all better than Outsiders.

2022-11-30 21:04

5 replies

no outsiders is better than heroic for sure and vitality

2022-11-30 21:04

4 replies

Absolutely not. :)

2022-11-30 21:05

2 replies

for the moment its teh case as outsiders stomped heroic 2-0

2022-11-30 21:08

1 reply

For the moment it’s the case that Heroic is still better and #1 in rank. :)

2022-11-30 21:11

bro just because a team beat the current #1 team does not mean they are the #1, what is this logic? these ranking are a reflection of results and they are certainly not decided by one guy going “hm, i think this team would win against this team so they must be ranked higher”

2022-12-01 14:29

Blast is Tier 2 Event Consider No major champios didnt play and another CIS strong

2022-12-01 00:31

1 reply

Wrong, it’s officially considered a S tier tournament. Doesn’t really matter what you think about it.

2022-12-01 00:33

cry 2nd at major and then winning the next T1 event= number 1 rank. not that hard to understand

2022-11-30 21:05

win many tournaments > win the biggest tournament. it seems

2022-11-30 21:23

HLTV ranking has been kinda of a joke for some time, their formula is not working at all

2022-11-30 21:29

topxuxa

2022-11-30 21:29

flukesiders should be outside top 10 wdym, heroic goats

2022-11-30 21:52

Danish bias

2022-11-30 21:53

Mickey mouse ranking.

2022-11-30 21:55

1 reply

lol

2022-12-01 12:24

Because rio major counts for less than other majors

2022-12-01 00:25

After Dust removal there is a chance that Heroic will be able to beat VP, so the ranking is not so wrong.

2022-12-01 00:30

heroic won blast

2022-12-01 02:21

yea they won the major let them be #1 for the rest of the year for that even if they dont win or paricipate in any more events smartest hltv user

2022-12-01 03:22

2 replies

They can’t attend this event cus it’s only a qualifier and they already qualified for the main thing months ago, you poopoohead Expected from a s0mple Stan I guess

2022-12-01 03:54

1 reply

navi qualified for the main event too? and they played here too? are you that stupid ? its not a qualifier its an event like every other event fucking americans dear god

2022-12-01 04:12

I think what he's asking is how did Outsiders lose 130 points. They had 1000 points after winning the major an they didnt play anywhere since, so they had 1000 points. Once Heroic won blast, Heroic got 1000 points while Outsiders somehow dropped to 870 points and to be honest I also have no clue where 130 poitns went to be honest, but i m probably not familiar with how it works ,but ya.

2022-12-01 03:27

2 replies

Its not points like that. The point are from 3 separate rankings. Form, LAN and achievements. So its 3 rankings combined into one, and Outsiders was #1 on form from the major (i assume) but not after Heroic was 2nd at the major and the blast win. You can see here: hltv.org/news/35077/outsiders-claim-no-1..

2022-12-01 07:52

1 reply

Ah k cool

2022-12-01 21:10

i don't understand how they lost 130 points in one week wtf and heroic boosted on 1000 points with that blast win WHAT

2022-12-01 03:29

1 reply

The points scale against points top 1 team. Still doesn't make sense that Outsiders Form and Lan points reduced so much when they just won last tournament they played.

2022-12-01 10:41

Anything that keeps the most boring player alive and his minions from #1 is welcomed. It doesn’t have to be logical or factual

2022-12-01 03:47

Ranking are irrelevant Jame time is now The dynasty is underway. Your favorite team is about to get nut stomped by VP/Outsiders until Jame retires to live on his alpaca farm

2022-12-01 09:24

Ranking in general is not too relevant: 1) paid invites give you ranking - even if you lose every single match on those paid invite tournaments you will still get ranking points - basically p2w 2) Tournament organizers not wanting Russian teams but being proudly sponsored by the most murderous sponsor ever - US Air Force which is directly responsible for millions of deaths since the WWII as they are the ones doing the actual killing. Not like Arabs Frankie talked about who pay to support - these guys do it. And they do war crimes, like them directly. Not like Russian players who happen to have a bad RNG of being spawned in some area - these guys chose to do it. It's all just out the window, we can watch CS for the fun of matches but ranking is irrelevant apart from teams trying to score sponsorships based off of it.

2022-12-01 14:39

They were #1 before Blast ended XD

2022-12-01 14:42

The guy who is behind the ranking system is absolutely clueless. Imagine being Outsiders, winning the major, being first place and after a fucking blast event (which shouldn't be considered as a s tier lan with just 8 teams and shit format) heroic takes the nr. 1 spot from them. Not that the players should even care about it, but the concept itself is pretty brain-dead.

2022-12-01 22:14

the real crime is faze jumping back to #3 despite sucking ass for the past 5 months

2022-12-02 00:29

and faze jumped 5 spots? hltv rankings are so weird past few months, way too many changes that makes absolutely no sense. outsiders had 484 points, winning major -> 1000 points, then down to 870 for not participating at all, and heroic went from 755 to 1000, and all of that because of a small tournament. this makes absolutely no sense at all, I have no idea what happened this year, but it's like: "hey x, you won a tournament, here take the first spot for a week, next week you'll go down ok?"

2022-12-02 00:54