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THIS THREAD IS ONLY ABOUT PURE AIM (even if dumb player)
CAT S : NIKO --> ZYWOO --> S1MPLE --> TWISTZ
CAT 1 : AX1LE --> ROPZ --> B1t --> SCREAM --> XANTARES
CAT 2 : STAVN --> YEKINDAR --> M0NEZY ...
Thoughts ?
26 replies
really dont understand how xantares aims so well with acceleration on
source: settings.pro/players/xantares/
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1.05
vs top 5 opponents
(69 maps)
1.07
vs top 50 opponents
(175 maps)
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+111111
This is some of the dumbest shit I have ever read tbh, muscle memory is the reason I can still outaim most people in CS and I rarely even play anymore. I have used the same settings for 20 years and always make sure my CS sensitivity = same sensitivity in other FPS games. Muscle memory isn't a meme, you wouldn't practice aim or play aimbotz if it wasn't beneficial. If Xantares didn't have the hours he has he could never be so consistent with mouseaccel.
12 replies
i'm sure you know better than voltaic
9 replies
I have no idea who that is. Just think about it logically, why would you practice aim at all if muscle memory WASN'T real? How do you think basketball players can hit fadeaway 3 pointers consistently in the highest pressure situations? Why would they spend 1000s of hours shooting baskets? Do you think skill is all a natural gift?
If you have ever played a sport at a high level you would know this. Eventually your brain gets into "the zone" - when you hit this point, you don't think about what you are doing at all - your natural reflexes (muscle memory) and experience take over and you just go do your thing - you aim at a head or shoot the ball.
Perfect example of this is Jackz, he hits some sick reaction / reflex shots. He is considered "old" in CS years. Why do you think he can still hit more insane headshots than most people 10 years younger than him?
8 replies
did you even read the article?
'just think about it logically' - practicing aim makes you better at aim because your mouse control and fine motor skills improve. practicing on a variety of sensitivities improves the control of different areas (wrist, finger, arm) and so will improve your aim faster than if you stick to one sensitivity
you give the example of jackz, a player who is by no means the pinacle of mechanics. 'he hits some sick reaction / reflex shots' - so does everybody.
voltaic is an aim (training) group with some of the best aimers in the world, including the player generally agreed to be the best (mattyow)
7 replies
I don't agree with any of that article, muscle memory is scientifically proven. Making a case for "adapting" to better your aim by changing your settings is just plain stupid. There is no pro gamer that changes his settings to train aim. Find me one pro CS player who does that.
In regards to Jackz - multiple people named him in this thread as one of the best aimers lol. He has much better reactions than most, if you asked him - I would bet he would tell you why - he has played on the same settings for years. Niko? probably played with the same sens since his 1.6 days. f0rest has always played with 1400 EDPI - for 20 years.
His argument sounds good but it's just not reality.
Another way to think about it in a real world example, have you ever driven multiple cars continently? I have a 440 HP Mustang and a 271 HP turbo STI. If I drive my STI too long, I feel very heavy footed driving my Mustang. So no, it doesn't actually make me a "better driver" overall.
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'muscle memory is scientifically proven' - in fact it's scientifically disproven: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4747782..
'multiple people named him in this thread as one of the best aimers':
1. People itt are not a benchmark for skill. benchmarks (like standardised kovaaks scenarios) are
2. CS aim is incredibly simplified and only really utilises some elements of aiming
3. people itt are only talking about cs players
'I would bet he would tell you why' - what makes you think he knows why he has good aim? do you think he has done research and testing with hundreds of other players to investigate whether sens changing is useful? i don't think he has, but I know a group who has actually.
if you need a benchmark for a cs player's aim, elige is ranked as masters on voltaic benches. there's like 200 people on the VT discord alone that rank higher
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You linked a study where the time of the study was 2 days. 2 days... Big wow man. Much time to develop actual muscle memory.
I would also encourage you to stop quoting some random guy "benchmarking" players aim as well lol. It's like you don't really understand this argument at a real level.
In regards to science, they have done studies on Alzheimer's patents who literally have completely lost their minds and can somehow remember how to play complex songs on piano or guitar verbatim. How do you explain that? Did they take the aim test and join the VT discord and hit the top 200 aimers?
Enough hltv.org for one day. G'day sir
4 replies
wtf you on about dementia patients
it's pretty simple. the best aimers say that changing sens is useful and that muscle memory isn't really a thing. joebagz from hltv and misinformed faceit level 6s say that muscle memory is real
also from #168
'There is no pro gamer that changes his settings to train aim' - tenz, pengu, zexrow, n0ted, mattyow, bardoz, basically everyone in aim intensive games
it's less common in CS becuase pros don't particularly practice mechanics and the skill ceiling is generally lower for aiming
3 replies
Why do you invest so much into pseudo-science? VT noobs could never beat cs pros. If your aim train garbage is so proven and good, then why does nobody (Elige is getting paid btw) actually relevant in cs pro scene use it? "Well because cs needs no aim" IDIOT - go play kovaaks and keep sucking at actual video games. Always funny seeing the biggest aim train nerds hardstuck in low elo cs/val. You can even get special discord rank in VT for having 2700 elo, what a joke community. NO BRAINERS believing in BULLSHIT
2 replies
elige was in voltaic for like a year before becoming staff btw
'go play kovaaks and keep sucking at actual video games' - nice ad hominem lmao
0/8
just muscle memory, settings dont matter after youve been on the same ones for 10k+ hours
fyi
fnx fer taco played with mouse accel their first major, maybe some of them still used for their 2nd and some other br players like HEN1, felps and LUCAS1. When autimatic use to carry every game on c9 before their major win, he also played with mouse accel.
youtube.com/watch?v=5Llc9qjetDg
youtube.com/watch?v=Bn_PdX5T_d8
I also play with it on and off, game is easier for me with it on tbh
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jackz has good aim only in certain situation, sometime he's gonna miss a spray by a mile while the other player are pretty consistent
But sharp jackz on a good day can be easy at TIer 1
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the things is it's gonna be hard so compare since NIKO has a better crosshair placement whitch mean a better raw aim (less time to kill and instant hs ) than jacks
Aim needs multiple things and in game Niko has a better aim than JAckz (even if Jackz migth be better than him on aim map)
6 replies
yes, that's why I said that jackz is better when it comes to reacting to things and putting his crosshair to them, hunter even said that they've done an actual reaction speed test in a lab and Jackz has it as high as it gets for humans - fighter pilot level.
Niko is better, Niko knows where to pre aim and when and that's why Niko will always win more. But that's pre aim, that's game sense.
When you say "aim" then that's point and click - jackz >>>>> niko. Jackz > most.
But I am not sure why would you invent reasons to compare them because in a piece Blast did iirc Niko said it him self that Jackz has a better aim. If Niko says it - there's no reason to doubt it.
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Why the fick are you so triggered lmao
crosshair placement is game knowledge not raw aim, raw aim is hand eye coordination
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You said "pure aim". Jackz pure aim is S+ , Niko wins more because he has better pre-aim and way better game sense.
Niko is a better player and there's no doubts, but Niko said it him self that raw aim - Jackz is better.
Jackz is always S+ tier with aim, man has as high as it gets reaction speed for humans.
Niko getting more kills =/= better pure aim. Fact that I have to explain this to you tells me your rank is not that high.
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In category of your own 🔥🔥🔥
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frfr in the bottom one 💀
along with all other hltv users
excluding me ofc
xantares should be in tier s, he's insane af
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Why u mad bro haha
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+1 Best aimer the game has ever seen:
pley.gg/news/device-before-big-xantares-..
xantares is definitely in s tier
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pure aim, crosshair placement and gamesense are different things and the kills in the matches are a combination of these. if we are talking about pure aim xantares maybe the best in the world
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"pure AIM on relevant moments" lmao
read that again mens
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I genuinely think zywoo and s1mple have better aim than niko. because in same situation (if xhair placement and positioning dont matter) i;m pretty sure zywoo and s1mple are superior
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crosshair placement and positioning do matter in aim tho. I'm sure some level 6 has insane raw aim but obviously you wouldnt call them good because they are ass at everything else.
I would say the only people that should be in S tier are players like
Xantares b1t (2021) s1mple shox (13/14) twistzz
Scream should be at Cat 2 since tapping and high headshot percentage =/= good aim
B1t and twistzz have such high headshot not because they go for flashy plays like scream, but because they have such good control of their mouse and always end up 182 in 2 which make them really insane riflers.
Xantares is just a nobrainer, he can flick all over the monitor and never miss a single target, same with s1mple.
Prime shox was a different type of beast.
All the other you mentioned don't necesarrily have bad aim, It's just that most of it comes from them having insanely good crosshair placements and being in "favourable" positions.
For example, zywoo is a player that would consistantly win more unwinnable situations than s1mple just because he is an incredibly smart player and positions himself well while s1mple would win unwinnable rounds that leave you completely dumbfounded.
Like all the players I mentioned in S tier are more likely to win those impossible scenarios whereas the other ones wouldn't even put themselves in impossible scenarios and win more based on positioning crosshair placements and other.
This is all my opinion not facts, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
9 replies
I take crosshair placement as part of the AIM and zywoo and Niko have the best crosshair placement in the world, thats why i put them in S tier and pretty much first.
Xantares never shown his aim at a pick level as hight as the guys in S tier in the biggest toornaments and vs the biggest stages.
Scream definitely has his place in Cat1 or you might have missed 2012/2016 era, pretty much nobody had a better aim than him and every player you would ask at this timeline would tell you scream was the best.
B1t, (no as much as Jackz tho) doesnt have the AIM consistency of the guy in S tier, depending on the moment like Jackz they can have S tier AIM but will never reach the player above ( my opinion). And shox ? He used to have insane Aim but was also a very smart player and clutcher, with a bit of inconsistency as well, would put him in tier2. Dont forget that tier2 = top10% already Aim WISE,
This tierlist could have 10 TIER with all the players
6 replies
That is true about xantares, so sad that he is limiting himself in these regional teams and BIG.
Scream, you are thinking about first bullet, he was really bad at spraying (for S tier and cat1 standard) if I recall correctly which is why he always went with a1 and tapping. Maybe you could put him there but idk.
Yeah b1t fell off this year and has been ping ponging with his stats and consistancy a lot, I can understand that. It's either 5 30 or 40 10, no inbetween for him at the moment. (Exaggerating ofc)
I'm biased about shox, my fav player.
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I like to believe it's due to him not having a good work ethic and always having other priorities. It's like that with every legend in csgo, everyone has outgrinded them and have more hours put into the game despite starting much later.
Imagine if shox had the drive m0nesy has his entire career.
how is reaching to #1 is limiting yourself?
1 reply
Scream best aim xDd only fanboys say that he wa average overrated pro. 90 percent of his highlights was in faceit or mm games. He very rarely did same in official pro matches bare in mind competition was lower. These days he would probably ould be below average even if he was in his prime. Not saying he was bad but even there is like 20 better aimers then him and Niko taps head 10x better then scream did basically Niko does same in pro games what scream could do only in pugs and scrims or against non pros.
s1mple doesnt have top tier aim, he works with brain not with aim
niko is a predicter of movement
best raw aim has to be scream monesy zywoo
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i dont care
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im not ruski, dont try to be smart buddy im spanish
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he adjusted his aim after leaving kinguin, and he started incorporating spraying more into his aiming style, you can watch a few of his demos post-kinguin and see that he was transitioning to spraying more than he used to
especially in envyus, where he wasnt playing with his usual style as much anymore and focused on being more efficient with his aim
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Cus zywoo never get to major final
1 reply
It's not a long list of people who are extraordinary aimers and are relevant at the same time. For me, that list includes-
1) B1t
2) Twistzz
3) Spinx
4) k0nfig
Niko's aim is better than s1mple and zywoo cause he is rifle only player and still puts massive numbers. It's not relevant to mention goats and goat contenders obviously because being a good aimer is already a pre-requirement to being in that category
3 replies
in 1v1: GOD JACKZ
I would put xantares on S tier tbh.
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Dude ure saying same sh1t to every xantares comment. Educate urself ffs. Because of personel choices he wanted to stay and play with his Turk friends. But I believe he would perform very well as niko if he had team like g2
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do u remember refreszh? he was decent in heroic but now in sprout he is dogshit. So u can see the team difference
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KSCERATO and fer
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Sometimes use brain over patriotism.
EliGE S+
Honestly.. even tho XANTARES doesn't have success with teams or ever makes it top20 hltv.. I still think he has the best aim & crosshair placement EVER, I've spent countless hours comparing & analyzing raw aim/xhair placement in the best players, even compared to ScreaM in his prime.. XANTARES without a doubt is a freak of nature, it's very similar to niko in a sense where they fixate on xhair placement well, but XANTARES is amplified to another level, his 180s are robotic & accurate.. the man is a monster... It's ashame hes in dogshit teams & didn't improve his english earlier to open doors to better teams.. He's now coasting with EF to make some $$ and relax.. Wasted player..
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XANTARES fully screwed himself with the E.F. project tbh
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Yep, He just cares about making money while being able to live in turkey, if he really wanted to be a top level player he will give up on the tr scene. He had the right idea trying BIG at the time but sadly BIG aint much... and back then his english was worse than now, I think if he REALLY wanted he could of been in a team like faze.
sunny "the firepower" kemppi should be SSS-tier
Kscerato and k0nfig
Also fer when he cares
dycha should be in the conversation
Pure mechanical skills, I’d include xantares on S tier for sure. When it comes down to xhair placement I cant name another person besides Niko & xantares.
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IN a game like CSGO, i think spray control should be a PART of the conservation when it comes to aiming mechanics. Also, no they aren't tf lol. s1mple is just that guy, so u can make a case for just about anything. Brehze and Ethan were both insanely skilled players back in 2019 mostly cuz of their aim, but I don't think their sprays were close to EliGE. Brehze could be the pure aimers list to though imho.
Perfecto when he is the silent killer and frags 30 and you don't realize it until after map 2
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f0rest is the original aim god/NiKo of the CS franchise
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if you played like scream nowadays ud get like 15 avg so its kinda unfair to compare it that way:D
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XANTARES below NiKo is a joke
SCREAM TWISTZ XANTARES S tier
dont care about the rest.
1 reply
Imagine putting XANTARES, the best aimer ever, in A-tier only
Some of the best naturally gifted aimers to ever play IMO.
Kevin "aZn" Wang
youtube.com/watch?v=fItx6EI-ljE
youtube.com/watch?v=6T5p0X_hej8
Jordan "n0thing" Gilbert
youtube.com/watch?v=iVZkwmYcLYI
youtube.com/watch?v=W8A1q7ZAzp8
youtube.com/watch?v=XhdtdLj3pyU
youtube.com/watch?v=gTwKXEOhN_U
Paul "pauLy" Guerboyan
youtube.com/watch?v=Xf-XkmwD_Dg&t=32s
youtube.com/watch?v=FmWGYwOMAAE
youtube.com/watch?v=QZpyf7SbDds
Braxton "swag" Pierce
youtube.com/watch?v=gIgDoq7Dx-g
youtube.com/watch?v=f82_7QvzK80
youtube.com/watch?v=0STBTMnl8Eg
Michael "method" So
youtube.com/watch?v=34JQNZOLNUo
youtube.com/watch?v=cb_G3w2Tvyk
youtube.com/watch?v=0ZC74x6-PGg
Griffin "shaGuar" Benger
youtube.com/watch?v=KoMTHCLhJp8
youtube.com/watch?v=lh8aYOUsMEY
youtube.com/watch?v=LZJMuoScems
Daniel "fRoD" Montaner
youtube.com/watch?v=MSF06wct5gs
youtube.com/watch?v=XCN4HXZNU7M
Kyle "minikerr" Kerr
youtube.com/watch?v=WsHOijIaYQw
youtube.com/watch?v=uqSYDF_0cDk
youtube.com/watch?v=kRXnL7mcfsk
youtube.com/watch?v=AiPW5GQVvss
Christopher "GeT_RiGhT" Alesund
youtube.com/watch?v=2FxXCHdaOVE
youtube.com/watch?v=k4fm3FdEIb4
youtube.com/watch?v=JItjtrzOZXE
youtube.com/watch?v=qpXP1-Z4m-M
Frej "kHRYSTAL" Sjostrom
youtube.com/watch?v=90foXgjBqHk
youtube.com/watch?v=Ja1BK0j9h7U
Kristoffer "Tentpole" Nordlund
youtube.com/watch?v=fkuC9rV9OwU
youtube.com/watch?v=bLUczFvlNYM
Michael "ahl" Korduner
youtube.com/watch?v=ZjmlkBTPrWM&t=27s
youtube.com/watch?v=QLOHzQnlyN0
Abdisamad "SpawN" Mohamed
youtube.com/watch?v=84CXsP6r85Y
youtube.com/watch?v=ANvriVJ2HhU
youtube.com/watch?v=SZ9gRW5o7TU
youtube.com/watch?v=bhgwxYtHUBw
youtube.com/watch?v=MUsjTtsUdkY
Harley "dsn" Orwall
youtube.com/watch?v=L_T1yFgh6rc
youtube.com/watch?v=eunetHBOmo8
Raphael "cogu" Camargo
youtube.com/watch?v=diHiFuPUQBo
youtube.com/watch?v=1MOOOcOlr7Y
Filip "NEO" Kubski
youtube.com/watch?v=BpW84oGje3g
youtube.com/watch?v=ChqEuJInLr0
youtube.com/watch?v=Eijo4J2fXe8
youtube.com/watch?v=27TXXTl7YGs
Christer "fisker" Eriksso
youtube.com/watch?v=Ih_5ZkNdrjc
youtube.com/watch?v=063lQw4Ts0g
Mickael "mSx" Cassisi
youtube.com/watch?v=_ALUVB31WBw
youtube.com/watch?v=KyxmL2chGzA
youtube.com/watch?v=Zo89Jt9LpMY
Ola "elemeNt" Moum
youtube.com/watch?v=IjjdTrbDaZ8
youtube.com/watch?v=7ZwkeDvzzHQ
youtube.com/watch?v=TnqQ7edof74
Jonas "Johnny R." Bollack
youtube.com/watch?v=8IamGfljRrc
youtube.com/watch?v=d5CtlckC_uk
Yehor "markeloff" Markelov
youtube.com/watch?v=kIETfdsl2YE
youtube.com/watch?v=EOl3NOX3BVU
youtube.com/watch?v=NHe12xWFTac
Dennis "walle" Wallenberg
youtube.com/watch?v=RZ1xUTtWoFw
youtube.com/watch?v=Xrji5SXyDnc
Shroud better than all of these in terms of raw aim
But he's shit in every other aspect so w/e
1 reply
shroud so overrated i cant believe it:D
Maj3r
XANTARES, lol
how do you even define raw aim? Because in every aim duel in cs movement, positioning, timing, predicting ur opponents movement etc is important. Even on 1v1 map. Or do you mean how fast someone can get 100 kills on aimbotz?
Me after 4 beers
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Just sucks at everything else
1 reply
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bro zywoo has insane aim. could easily be top 3 player with just rifles alone
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look, he got a 4K deagle vs heroic 2mn ago by stealing kills from his team8 and by having average aim !! twitter.com/TeamVitality/status/16183068..
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Kyojin no debate
BlameF? Love him or hate him, he has insane aim
XANTARES is the best aimer ever.
pley.gg/news/device-before-big-xantares-..
ZywOo is obviously the best aimer, XANTARES and NiKo are close though
Twistzz best aimer
worst thread I've ever seen congratulations
No F0rest on the list ?
Alpacachino best pure aim, 100% acc on wall behind enemy
Obviously it's Tenz did you see how high he scored on the betway csgo challenge?
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