Gla1ve did not invent the current meta lol, the made the meta in 2018 and 2019, that is 3-4 years ago and gla1ve have not won shit since. He have now been tier 2-3 level igl for years, so long that he has spent more time being shit than the time he was good.
Karrigan can change and play in the current meta, while gla1ve is on his way out out top 30
gla1ve was successful with a single roster (excluding one change)
karrigan has been successful with countless rosters.
karrigan over gla1ve all day fucking long LOL
stop overrating that guy wtf...
as much as I love astralis and gla1ve, karrigan has always been succesful with every roster
but yes gla1ve paired with zonic was the reason why astralis was unbeatable
Karrigan (basically PSG of cs) gets to handpick some of the greatest players to ever play the game while gla1ve has to work with scraps and academy players. When karrigan wins 4 majors, has an era and a grand slam, you karrigan fanboys might have the right to open your mouths.
bad discussion/debate , this not a apparent case of simple/device , both suck ass skill wise (talking about IGL'S )
long way for both player ( glave alot more ) , both did very well and can still do alot more.
once both retire or one just achieves so much more then other ( karrigan not even close ) then it would be a good debate
this whole "GOAT IGL" is currently is who you like more.
Listen to your heart when he's calling for you
Gla1ve hasn't invented the current meta, Gla1ve isn't even able to play the current meta lol
eeh Karrigan always had the best/star players in his team, while gla1ve didnt really have any extremely good players, with the exception of dev1ce ofc. karrigan can call absolutely shit but faze will still get atleast 6 t-side rounds just because of their raw firepower
put gla1ve on faze and karrigan and astralis (not considering language barrier problem) and faze will still do pretty well if not better currently, probably better since gla1ve is way better individually than karrigan nowadays, while astralis wont even be able to take 1 map out of t1 teams
gla1ve peak is unbeatable
karrigan more consistent
gla1ve = karrigan, different styles, different circumstances. gla1ve is the peak of Danish in game leading while karrigan is the first one ever to get international roster on top and make them win every big trophy (major, Katowice, Cologne). gla1ve has had a bad period lately just like karrigan has in the past. both will achieve great things in the future if the have necessary pieces
why so much boring debate? we all knows Hooxi is the GOAT IGL
just because he has a legacy doesn´t mean that he is the GOAT
karrigan GOAT IGL, no doubt about that
I se how great of an IGL gla1ve is. he has won several majors, been the best team for a long time and as you said created a new meta. But we have only seen him in an danish line up and he is calling in his native language.
While karrigan has been in a danish and several international teams. his teams has gonne to the top pretty quick after joining and stayed there (only exaption is his time in envy, which we can all agree on was a disaster + he was only there on loan for 2 months so does it really count?). He went from playing with the best players in the world to pretty young and new players for top tier cs and made then into a pretty good players and team. all this while IGLing in his second language. which i think might be harder.
So even tho gla1ve has accomplished more and has more throphes i still belive that Karrigan is a better IGL imo. If i could see gla1ve IGL in an international team for some months i might change my mind, but for now im team karrigan
It's so fkn insane how recency-biased the cs community is. They were about equal (although I'm leaning slightly towards gla1ve) in 2016 and 2017. Gla1ve was clearly>karrigan in 2018, 2019, 2020 and even 2021 because karrigan did absolutely fck all that year despite so much talent. Yes 2022 was amazing by karrigan but that still fails in comparison to Gla1ve. Also karrigan had 2015 where he had success while gla1ve was still lurking in the wilderness of the danish tier 2 scene. To me it's still so obvious in favour of gla1ve
gla1ve didn't invent the current meta at all, he just redefined the importance of role-definition and utility usage, which the Brazilians did before Astralis but obviously Astralis did a much better job. Astralis also had the best teamwork bar-none during their prime. they could only be outmatched by aim-duels and map advantage, which Astralis were also the best at.
gla1ve will always be a legend and a GOAT IGL contender but discrediting Karrigan's IGL in favour of gla1ve's because of similarities isn't an argument.
gla1ve's time has gone...
ez karrigan, not even a discussion. Glave maybe was the first goat, but he did it vs very weak opponents. Ever since csgo got professional and a lot more teams actually started playing real strats, he disappeared. his goat status is gone for a long time and he was passed by many other IGLs
glaive fell off because he drove the meta forward but then couldn't adapt, you can't call someone the GOAT when they fall off completely after leaving their comfort zone + support structure which no one else had
Goldfish memory mofos I swear to God.
Do you realize that karrigan won only 4 LANs this year? Pretty much no one was calling karrigan the GOAT before 2022, people thought he was washed. There was not even a conversation to be had about who was the greatest IGL of all time really. Are 4 trophies all it took to change the entire narrative and for so many of you to lean towards karrigan? To not just consider him, but to
favour him in this comparison?
People keep mentioning that karrigan built several formidable line-ups over his very respectable career but conveniently leave out that all of them fell off after a couple of months. Year of FaZe? FaZe era? Fuck me more like spring if anything.
Where is his fucking Grand Slam? The fuck happened in Rio? Where are his other majors that he had plenty of opportunity to win? Where is his era? Idk idc karrigan goated fr fr.
Mouz? Dropped off a fucking cliff. They were going out in groups for almost a year straight after those 2 relevant trophies (or 4 if you want to be overly generous, heckin love cs_summit right lads?).
Then he dipped for greener pastures in FaZe, only to go out in groups for another year.
Karrigan's first tenure in FaZe? He had line-up that should've established a dynasty. Ended in what might be the greatest blunder in CS history. Unluko.
Now let's take a look at the GOAT. Gla1ve's Astralis stayed at the top for like year and a half, virtually invincible, already longer than all of karrigan's team combined. Then they fell off, imagine being dethroned by an NA team right? A fockin' disgrace. But they clawed their way back to the top. And then did it again and again, in 2020 and even at the start of 2021.
Gla1ve stayed at the top even when every single tier 1 team was hyperfocused on
dethroning his team. Trying to counterstrat motherfucking gla1ve. Didn't work. Figures.
Gla1ve and zonic defined what modern CS is. Almost 5 years later people still play CS that is clearly a derivative of the one Astralis played, sure there has been significant development since and teams are now increasingly pushing the envelope on firepower but the fundamentals are the same.
When Gla1ve took over karrigan's roster he elevated those players and went onto to establish the greatest dynasty in the entire franchise's history. I don't give a fuck about 2003 SK, 2010 NaVi, 2013 NIP or how VG dominated shitters in sauce. Astralis clears every single day. Gla1ve's Astralis made this forum and cucks on reddit cry because it was supposedly too boring to watch, that they were killing the game, second coming of 2012 NIP.
Sure Astralis had been in a rough sport and that org is completely rotten, gla1ve might even be washed (just like people were saying about karrigan not that long ago) but what gla1ve did with Astralis during 2017-2021 simply eclipses karrigan's entire career. Gla1ve from that time, the one who won 4 motherfucking majors, the one with hunger and without a family, was, is and will be the GOAT.
Seethe and cope karrigan fans.
Gla1ve did a million firsts
3 In a row
1st Intel Grand Slam
2 years of straight dominance that no one has even come close. Only NaVi had the chance and they failed
Karrigan has not done anything new, he won a major but has fallen from grace pretty hard recently. I like Karrigan but why people say he's the GOAT is weird.
karrigan is the most overrated igl, i hope he gets kicked soon
no one is talking about MSL... what a society we live in..
gla1ve hasn't achieved anything without device and zonic, karrigan has re-established himself many times with many different line-ups. Gla1ve has the team trophies and was carried by the goat line-up.
The people who like to downplay Gla1ve either weren't around in 2016/17/18/19/20 or are straight-up delusional. For context 2018-20 (2016/7 harder argument to make however Gla1ve took the core Karrigan choked with and 3 trophies including Major and Katowice) Gla1ve was undeniably the best IGL by a country mile, nobody was remotely close, and his mid-round calls are/were legendary and is the biggest influence on the creating the current csgo meta. Yes, Astralis haven't been close since and jan-april 2021 the goat roster fell apart, which ended with Dev1ce the player with THE most impact on a team by anybody left and until Dev1ce came back that hole he left wasn't remotely filled. There has been many opportunities for Astralis to get into finals/win events since April 2021 however they always fell to stronger firepower/individuals whiffs (konfig and xyp looking at you) and not Gla1ve's lack of calling.
Karrigan on the other hand 2018, beat Astralis in Syndey in the closest final ever and in group stages of IEM Chicago 2018 (Niko went fucking ballistic that game lol watch it its good) apart from those 2 events, got banged out of the server every time. 2019 Karrigan won pro league, fluke choke from Astralis individually 14-8 to 14-16, meanwhile Gla1ve wins 2 majors (with one not being the favourite, not dropping out 0-3 in groups with the most individually skilled roster in history) 2020 Karrigan beat Astralis in pro league again (earlier in the event Astralis won 16-1 16-3) and I can't remember other times they matched apart from the dreamhack final which astralis won (good match, vertigo was excellent) 2021 karrigan has better individual team compared to Gla1ve yet lost every time they matched, had a really shit year Karrigan did losing almost every game 16-14 and the community calling for his head the whole year because it was painfully disappointing. So along comes 2022, Ropz arguably the most mechanically gifted player we have and one the smarter/most clutch we have seen. They beat a choking G2, pro league they would've been out if Vitality lost Outsiders and Vitality were shit at the time, they won the major which in my opinion is their best performance as a team this year, so many 2v2/3/4/5s etc won by Faze, I've never seen anything like it, they get banged out of dallas and blast by C9 and Navi respectably, then in colonge they take down NaVi again very legit win best of the year most of us would agree. After player break they lose final to clowndian, banged out of pro league by C9, banged out of major, lost to G2 and people have the audacity to say better than Gla1ve/goat astralis lineup. 1 6 month period where you have the most individually skilled team/most clutch team in history bail you out of dam near everything and people think this can challenge the 3 year reign of Gla1ve and Astralis.
I suck at spelling and grammar okay
I think the fact why so many people including myself put karrigan as the GOAT IGL is because he found success with so many lineups, many of which weren't really that great, while gla1ve only pretty much did it with one five-man lineup, so yeah, I think that's the reason.
I feel like people watched too much thorin content regarding gla1ve (who he's not the biggest fan of) and karrigan (whose nuts he can't get off of)
or maybe glaive can perform only with good players around him while karrigan make good players from shit players by his system
Gla1ve only worked with the same core of prime Astralis. Karrigan has played in so many different lineups and has found great success. Karrigan also is best at setting up stand ins for success and has won plenty events with stand ins. Ignore my flair ty, non biased opinion :D