Thread has been deleted
Last comment
A couple of threads have popped up of top10 teams or smth. Given that it is a topic of my interest and that I vehemently disagree with the common narrative that the scene is currently mostly trash, I am here presenting to all the HLTV mens my own version, just in a better format.
SS- G2
S - Heroic, FaZe
A - Liquid, NaVi, Vitality, C9
B- Astralis, OG, Outsiders, NIP, (maybe BIG)
C- CoL, Fnc, Spirit, Mouz
I probably have forgotten about a team or two, but any team who isn't listed here and clearly isn't a lapse of my judgement isn't solidly a tier 1 team.
Move astralis to C and I am good
16 replies
15 replies
CoL, Fnc, Spirit, Mouz trashes Astralis any time of the day. That's not even a question lmao. "they have the players" LOL. Look at their match history. Struggling against tier 3. Embarrassing.
12 replies
11 replies
They were "great" on lan cause they beat og and a brand new NIP? lol. Your standards are too low for what you consider "great" my guy.
10 replies
9 replies
That's literally how competitive CS works. Tier 3 teams have taken maps off of Na'Vi and other tier 1 teams. That doesn't mean they're tier 1. You're the dork here. Standing up for a dead team. I pity you.
8 replies
7 replies
you're so delusional
keep rooting for Astralis and their pineapple cups, lmao
6 replies
5 replies
I never called them tier 3, i just said that mouz & spirit would trash them right now, which is true. You're fucking delusional if you think i'm wrong.
4 replies
3 replies
Just stfu man. What will happen in future is irrelevant. Of course Astralis can improve. But right now they're shit, struggling against t2-t3. It's just facts. Stop baiting.
2 replies
1 reply
Well if they show up in their current form then they're fucked.
1 reply
G2 are SS wtf?????
13 replies
10 replies
Yeah i dont think you know what "SS" means
9 replies
7 replies
You must be 12 or smth
2 replies
SS, abbreviation of Schutzstaffel (German: “Protective Echelon”), the black-uniformed elite corps and self-described “political soldiers” of the Nazi Party
3 replies
Heroic are along G2 in same SS tier
13 replies
No they aren’t
9 replies
They are
G2 have not beat Heroic once, they cant be a full tier above.
Or they did play back in november, but hltv.org/matches/2360055/heroic-vs-g2-bl.. heroic won that
8 replies
Head to Head is meaningless stat. Heroic looked shaky at BLAST while G2 haven’t even dropped a map this entire year.
3 replies
Its far from meaningless
Blast was just a shit format, you cant win and its just warm up at this point.
"entire year" we are talking 2x group stage lol
2 replies
Doesn’t matter, they beat FaZe and Navi in this group stage
1 reply
Ok, so what did g2 win from that show-fun-event? top 6 and spot in spring final, like 5 other teams? gz fucking astralis got top 6....
2 replies
Its 1 bo3
g2 lost 3 games at the rmr and missed the major lol
way worse...
1 reply
And Heroic did not beat NAVI so?
Lmao
2 replies
They are, both teams won one blast each at the end of last year
Both teams top 6 in blast shitshow
Both teams won their group at katowice and are in semi
Where is g2 better than heroic?
If we go back to november as well heroic beat g2 last time and lets talk about last major
1 reply
G2 more convincing clearly look at the stats. Biased
As clarification for what each tier would be:
-SS is the clear best team,
-S are teams that can have up to a 50/50 game with Ss
- A are teams who can be tittle contenders but have an inherent flaw that prevents them to be that, be it a player or any other thing
-B are solid tier 1 teams that aren't in reach of contention
-C are mid tier 1 teams that aim to jot be relegated into being tier2
15 replies
G2 is not "clear" the best team, Heroic are just as good.
Just look at ranking
1. G2 918 point
2. Heroic 911 point
=very close
14 replies
Ratings are made of consistency over time. Heroic got a lot of those points from last years major, where they were better than g2.
Right now, for the last 2 months, G2 hasn't lost a single bo3, lost 2 maps and dominated everyone. Heroic hasn't don't that, thus, they aren't at the same level
2 replies
Last two months?
i see g2 was really good in player break lol
Both teams top 6 in blast shitshow
Both teams won their group at katowice and are in semi
Where is g2 better than heroic?
1 reply
heroic almost lost to Col
Right now G2 appear notably better.
Heroic were 7-8th at Blast World Finals, while G2 won it, though that's forgiven because of Konfig being subbed for Stavn.
Heroic also struggled at Blast Spring Groups, losing to EG (!!!) and Vitality outright, while also dropping maps to Astralis, BIG, and EG (in their second Bo3). Heroic lost a map to coL here at Katowice as well, though they've looked improved since that opening Bo3 and not dropped another map (and demolished Vitality in the group final).
Meanwhile G2 went 6-0 in Blast Spring Groups over BIG and Navi (twice). They won Blast Global Finals, only losing their opener to FaZe (and have not lost a Bo3 since at 10-0). In fact, G2 lost only one other map since the FaZe match, to Vitality, in overtime (meaning they could've 2-0'd both FaZe and Vitality under the right circumstances). Here at Katowice they are 6-0 again heading into playoffs.
10 replies
"notably better."
-no
0/8 bait
9 replies
Boy that's some really solid counter argument there. 10/10.
Now show me data to counter my points. Oh. Wait. You can't because I already laid it out for you. Silly me, being objective.
8 replies
Last time g2 played heroic, they lost in blast fall final
end of last year g2 and heroic won a blast event each
major heoric final, g2 not even at major
this year:
blast groups both teams top 6 and ready for blast spring final
katowice groups both teams won their group and are in semi
So tell me how g2 are now so much better than heroic?
7 replies
1.) G2 since losing to Heroic are the far better team statistically. Outlined above.
2.) Heroic won a Blast Event, G2 won a Blast Event, but (again...) Heroic have dropped maps/series against worse opposition than G2. G2's win is more recent, and their current form is better. Period.
3.) Major was months ago and the results are barely relevant. G2 is a better team than they were there. Heroic lost to Outsiders in the final, I doubt either would lose to them now. Heroic didn't win a single series when G2 won, granted with Konfig, but they may as well had not been at the Blast World Finals.
4.) Blast Groups: G2 didn't drop a map, won 3 straight series 2-0. Heroic lost a series to EG and Vitality... They also lost maps to EG a second time, to BIG and Astralis. I already covered this.
5.) Heroic lost a map to coL, G2 bulldozed everyone.
6.) I think I've sufficiently covered everything, especially in my first post. If you are living on events that happened months ago as proof of a team's CURRENT standing you are lying to yourself.
7.) G2's win % in the last 3 months is 10% higher than Heroic's.
6 replies
In 2023:
Blast Spring Gorups:
G2 top 6
Heroic top 6
=both ready for Spring Final
Katowice:
G2 won the group and are in semi
Heroic won the group and are in semi
Just accept that a win is a win, g2 have shown a bit more form yes. But that is far from enough to say that they are a lot better than heroic.
Now you can only say:
1/2 Heroic/G2
3 Faze
4 Navi
If G2 wins Katowice then they are nr. 1 yes, but until they do/or dont they are not clearly a whole tier above heroic.
You cant read that much out from some random matches in blast shit-show-pay-2-play format. Its top 6 for spring final or not for showdown, everything else is just warm up for Katowice and better/bigger events
5 replies
One team is Top6 without losing a series, another lost 2 series. One team took 3 series to place Top6, the other took 5. Not equivalent.
One team won a group without dropping a map, the other dropped a map to a team ranked 16 places below them.
Now I can say:
One team looks decidedly more dominant than another team statistically.
If Heroic win Katowice, and G2 shit the bed, then Heroic are the better team. AT THIS MOMENT they are not statistically better. That is how you be objective.
Also you can't say not to take Blast results seriously, then do something like mention a Major that was, by most accounts, a statistical anomaly.
4 replies
Because of the shit format in blast there is just top 6 and thats it. There is no winner or whatever... just a shitshow..
At THIS MOMENT you cant say g2 is better because of a little bit of form, come back when there is legit whole events to speak about.
3 replies
That's cool, you can dislike a format, but it doesn't change that Heroic lost 2 series at Blast vs. G2's none. We aren't talking about the format though, it didn't change how the game was played.
Wait, are you saying you can't relate form to how a team performs in the moment? Because that's exactly what form is...
Last legit whole event: G2 won, Heroic last place.
I'll save you the trouble, "but Blast's format is bad!" Seems like an opinion problem, not a statistics one.
2 replies
lost a series who the fuck cares? they still is top 6 and ready for spring final like g2.
obv there is form, but you cant make to much out from fucking 1 show event and 1 group stage. You need to look at katowice/EPL/RMR and take a look at form before major. Not from so little amount of games
1 reply
Who cares: people who are talking about the statistical quality of a team? I forgot, your only interest is bias and opinion. G2 has a 10% higher win rate in the past 3 months than Heroic, that's pretty notable.
I like how you flat ignored how dominant G2 was when they won Blast finals. At 3 events in a row they've been the best team statistically: Blast World Finals, Blast Groups, Katowice currently. But let's take a trip back multiple events to say they're worse when what really matters in current form.
You're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, or because you're too wrapped up in wanting your favorite team to be the best. Statistics don't care about your opinion.
I'm moving on. If you want to reply, go ahead, but multiple people have explained this to you which means your opinion is a minority. I'd reflect on that, personally, I don't like taking sides when talking about quantifiable information.
Theoretically G2 could fall apart in the semi's and Heroic could win the event. When that happens I'll be glad to admit that Heroic are the better team, until then they simply aren't.
Good list.
3 replies
2 replies
Oke maybe not the worst, i was overexxagerating.
But i think both Heroic and G2 are S (but maybe we will see this tournament if there is a clear favourite between the two)
Astralis is way too high
OG and NIP are 1 rank too high
Vitality is 1 rank too high
Mouz and BIG too inconsistent to be that high
1 reply
Heroic is not as convincing as G2 right now, not have they been in the last 2 months. G2's narrative rn is keeping a 10 game streak, that in itself keeps a 17 map streak. That on itself puts them ahead.
I think OG mouz and Big are good points. Though I don't personally agree with them,they are valid
Vitality just has too much talent to be in the same bucket as OG Fmatic and Astralis.
On Astralis read #67
3 replies
FaZe A tier, C9 B.
1 reply
nip, og, astralis in tier b lmao
also clown9 in a xddddd
3 replies
2 replies
og, astralis, nip, big, spirit, mouz, fnatic, col are quite equal imo and it's almost impossible to classify all of them right now. anyone could beat anyone
1 reply
you have to be a HUGE fuckign astralis fna to put them in B
11 replies
6 replies
bahahahhaahahahhaahahahhahahahh. HLTV MOMENT.....
2 replies
1 reply
i dont think col is baetter but outsiders are and col has better wins recently
not better than Outsiders.
2 replies
I mean, Outsiders are good and all, but they look lost in a lot of matches. They can upset anyone really, but not consistently, and can themselves be upset
Astralis seem more like a consistent entity. Dev1ce is still a great player, so is Blamef and Gla1ve IGLing has saved this org a lot this last couple of years. They are the typical team that beats the ones that are below them easily, but looses to teams above them easily too.
I think a game between them would settle this, but this is my argument on why Astralis is A tier, or at least better than outsiders
1 reply
it is a 75/25 hit. Outsiders just got a 1.20 monster in the place of herbert.
3 replies
nto yet. they ahd hard time winning a t2 tournament
2 replies
Still beat NIP
1 reply
Yhea. Cause nip is rly good right now xd. They also had a stand in from the academy team
OG and Mouz are B+, C9 B-
3 replies
2 replies
C9 has more longterm potential but currently they are worse I think
1 reply
1 reply
Broo, long time no see.
Forgot about spirit tbh, but yeah they are up there surely. As I've said before C9 I can agree that they aren't fixed on A or anything, I personally think they are an A team, but I totally get the opposite argument.
FaZe idk if I would make them drop them a whole tier. I do agree Heroic are slightly better than them, but FaZe is way more comparable to Heroic than to Liquid or NaVi
1 reply
i'd put faze lower probably, otherwise legit list
G2 are undisputed top1 rn and i feel it's going to stay like that for quite some time now
3 replies
They will find a way to choke or dominate
Remember they were 10-0 in EPL groups with 71 round difference but still choked vs Vitality
1 reply
Yeah but now with this form i think the only way they can choke is that Navi somehow goes full god mode against them
S - G2
A - FaZe, Heroic, Vitality
B - NaVi, Outsiders, BiG, NiP
C - Clown9 , OG , Mouz , Fnatic
3 replies
2 replies
I wanted to put Vitality in B Tier but i couldnt because of ZywOo.
I can somewhat agree, maybe not 100%, but it's not a delusional list
How is OG and Astralis better than spirit? How is C9 that high? How is furia and mouz not even included?
I agree with most of your list though
2 replies
Spirit imo aren't really solid consistently. They have a high peak, but do not hit it all the time. I think OG peak higher and have potential for better consistency. As per Astralis, its a new line-up, but from what I saw they are solid
Mouz is there in C. Forgot about Furia. They are a clear C, but could be an A if they got an actual awper and either got a real IGL or a real coach. Kscerato, Yuriih and drop is one of the best trios and one of my favourites
1 reply
Spirit and OG: Id say both have good peaks and are inconsistent, but i bealive spirit are a bit more consistent
Astralis: I think they have a lot to prove if they want to be called tier 1.
Mouz: Sorry, seems that i am blind.
Furia: I think they are on B. Regarding possible changes, art is probably irreplaceable, saffee has an ok performance, and probably wont be replaced as well. I dont bealive that they will have any changes this year.
BIG HAHAAHH
SS=FNC, C=C9
your list is faulty
just call it S+ not SS lmao
NIP = no.1 after pro league
SS = 1000 points on hltv rank
2 replies
Well, with that logic, G2 should be much lower because they didn't qualify for RIO. That said, they should be on the list but OP said he knew he was probably forgetting someone so no disrespect intended. Still, they were 2 important matches where they were heavy favorites which cost them the qualification to an elite event right after the player break. So it's not just "two matches". I would put them in B tier, giving them the benefit of the doubt. If they disappoint in EPL they'll go down another tier.
1 reply
Astralis C, Spirit, Mouz and Fnatic B and it is ok
Big should be SS
I need to see who wins Katowice first, particularly if we get a G2 vs Heroic grand final. But overall, I agree. The only team I'm not sure about is Astralis. They have the players but they didn't qualify for Katowice, they didn't play Rio and only barely beat OG in a group stage. I'd move them to C and move up Spirit. NiP are in questionable form as well, particularly Brollan. Maybe also move them down to C.
This list is absolutely awful. Apart from G2 and heroic everything is wrong. Everything.
Jesus fuck.
Jame time SSS
can someone tell me how good heroic is right now? G2 is looking really good but I'm curious about them. Is heroic better than G2 atm?
1 reply
No
1 reply
Nice G2 won last major ive heard. oh shit they didnt even qualify, lmao didnt they get cocked by random tier 2.5 teams sending Chocko home crying? Ive heard he cried like a little girl the whole flight lel
B - Astralis
KEK
I just want to say fnatic beat outsiders and big has never defeated fnatic in like 500 years but okay
Now playing
Apoka
4925 viewers
Top streams
All(25)
Casters(13)
Streamers(7)
Organizers(5)
Apoka
(4925)
Pimp
(3605)
ESL TV
(3193)
EU Pro League
(1140)
KRL
(952)
FISSURE
(896)
EU Pro League
(820)
JW
(792)
Elisa Esports
(763)
Meta
(399)
bt0
(382)
syrsoN
(329)
BetBoom
(285)
emilio
(282)
Jogando Junto
(189)
mch
(148)
BeHopGG
(138)
SGL
(134)
almazer
(102)
mantuu
(69)
ZaCkETiZOR
(48)
Luddiie
(45)
BTSBrasilFPS
(8)
crawzao
(7)
speed4k
(6)
