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copium is through the roof for 95% of the community but at some point u have to wake up and realise that all these partner teams are just stuck playing vs each other and basically stagnating, while "tier2-3" teams are grinding nonstop and come more prepared
instead of crying about "fluke", "bo1" etc just admit that the so called top teams arent as great as people make them seem. today it got proved in bo3 as well, so no more excuses.
from major to major we keep seeing this happen, and from major to major a bunch of delusional kids keep trying to defend this stupid partner circuit system instead of criticizing the teams, while simultaneously neglecting the upcoming teams by calling them "fluke" or whatever
tldr: wake up and stop coping, "tier1" teams are only tier1 because of partner circuits
Yes agree
I think they are wrong, and you are wrong. It’s not that the best teams aren’t actually all that good, it’s that the combination of single map matches, and opponents you don’t regularly counter strat, levels the playing field a lot. If you play a bo1 against a team that wins their pistols at a high rate, all you have to do is lose a couple gun rounds and the match is basically over. To be clear tho, Im not calling that a fluke, if a team wins, 98% of the time they deserve to.
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teams like itb completely destroying faze isnt really about antistratting. like objectively the skill gap is massive, faze should have no problem simply outaiming them on paper. however what we saw is alleged top3 team barely qualifying from last chance stage (which wasnt even a thing in prior majors), struggling vs pain monte and ence in challengers, went 0-2 and almost lost to bne in legends and so on. they also didnt make it before against bne as well. and thats just 1 team out of many who fumbled hard in this major, not even mentioning the previous ones (for example when g2 missed after losing to gamerlegion)
the list really goes on
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8 teams out of current top10 (who regularly play partner tournaments) either didnt make it - c9, g2, furia, ence, or are on the verge of not making it - faze, navi, nip, liquid
it seems pretty obvious to me and i really dont know how people can defend this. you could say it's "just one tournament" but thats precisely the point, these teams will go back to "normal" in the regular blast and IEM/esl tournaments because thats where they keep playing each other 24/7 due to being partnered. yet since stockholm in pretty much every major we keep seing same situation where a lot of them are shitting the bed almost entirely, sometimes with exception of 1-2 teams
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I agree there should be some more slots in the partnered events from qualifiers but just be realistic and realize for the most part the partnered teams got partnered for a reason, all the majors have still ultimately been won by one of these partnered teams except for rio with VP (pretty sure the only reason they arent partnered is their connections to russian oligarchs anyways)
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my problem is mostly #30. its almost like everyone just wants to see same match 20 times a year in every tournament and whenever that doesnt happen because of some heavy underdog winning, instead of praising and looking up to the new team they start bashing them and calling it a fluke, even tho at this point its been a pretty regular thing for the past 3-4 majors.
and yes ur right these underdog teams dont end up winning the major, but its not like they are expected to either? what they are doing is proving their worth and that they can at least challenge, if not play on par, with the "top" teams
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what theyre proving is they can fluke a few bo1s and a bo3 and then flop under the pressure on the stage... Just be realistic and accept that most of these teams probably dont deserve to be in playoffs of the major. GL beat 9ine and fnatic, lost to navi. Apeks beat BNE and ITB, lost to heroic. Now theyre playing for playoffs. Neither of those teams have really earned it, they havent even played a bo3 and one of them are in playoffs.
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but they will still blame bo1s and discredit success of t2 teams for some reason
the reality - which you refuse to understand - is that csgo is not competitive and trying to rank teams is therefore flawed. there is no tier1 or tier2.
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yeah it's hltv, they need to use a bunch of excuses bc their team got smashed
youtube.com/watch?v=Bw9H1ECucdI
EXCUSE FOR AGED WELL VIDEO?
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Is that why monte smashed navi, fnatic beat G2 and Faze barely scraped by BNE who didnt crumble under pressure and actually almost pulled off a great comeback?
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#15 in ranking, 0 playoffs appearances on LAN since 2020 (3 years), nothing shown in the last 4 majors with only exception 1/4 in Rio, best thing they achieved in the last 12 months was winning Elisa Espoo which was just a filler tournament with teams like HEET, HAVU, SAW, etc. + they didnt win that one without a struggle either
so uhh.. tier1 yeah, sure xd
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+111
Eh no. T2 teams are allowed spots through open qualifiers and they cant put a dent in those events. Major is their biggest event cause of sticker money. It is different from astralis cs cause of a lot of risk/disrespect. Its highly risky but if used right they can easily win. But this can work a few times enough for a major. In other events, they dont have bo1 so this playstyle can be punished easily.
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no u dont understand what i meant, teams like apeks, monte, gamerlegion, itb etc who qualified through RMR and got quite far + had good upsets (including bo3) wouldnt have even hypothetical chance to qualify for EPL because of the qualifying format. Only 1 of them could win (and i think runner up also gets the spot) but either way some of them would inevitably be left out
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This system has produced the same upsets for 2 majors. Its only going to be a while before the community backlashes. If this continues, major is going to be a random big event with declining viewership and sales cause everybody knows there will be upsets. And one team that is at their peak is going to win it. There will be no hype for ot comebacks cause the teams that can pull that off got upset because of some seeding. Katowice or cologne would become a more popular event.
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how is that a bad thing tho lmao? should we just automatically disregard the tournament for its upsets just because the teams who are supposedly "tier1" couldnt prepare strats against much worse teams that play 24/7 and theres plenty of information about them available? let alone the pure skill gap where "tier1" teams should dominate too?
or maybe we should instead criticize those teams for regularly doing the same thing and having too much ego to take these opponents seriously, which results in outcomes like monte owning navi or fnatic 0-1 2-1 vs g2?
theres no shot u would rather see stagnation cs where each event is same bs heroic vs faze bo3 or vitality vs liquid bo3 or g2 vs navi over and over again lmao
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eh. I think they would need to play puggy faceit style instead of tier1 cs against t2 teams. But its for them to figure out. Monte and fnatic played well i dont have anything against them. Im annoyed that t1 teams should be sharp af but they're not. I have felt for some years now that t1 teams should play some t2 events just to get more accustomed to their playstyle too. But id take a katowice or cologne playoff over these 2 majors because the quality of cs is much better. So far vitality and heroic have the best chances so in a sense, you know who's gonna win the major most likely, it might be somebody else. Its easy to win a major for those teams than to win something like katowice or cologne. You want to see a biased major so that it levels the playing field for t2 teams that is fine but even that wont help them to transition into t1 cs because they are inconsistent the rest of the year at big events. Sure you could increase the spots to big events but it does not make financial sense for them to compete in those events because they could farm cash cups and t2 events instead of elevating their level of cs.
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It comes down to money and capital for each team and just like football a champions league format would be more lucrative/entertaining like pro league than a domestic cup in which upsets happen all the time.
They can’t come to consistency out of nowhere, at least in majors they get the chance to play against better teams. And every once in a while we get examples of success, another problem tho is that teams with more finance just buy out better players (like it happened with cph, sunpayus from Movistar, etc) and then the lower teams have to grind from the beginning with new players while the better teams get improved even further
I miss the 2014-2017 days where top teams still grinded tier3 tournaments in the off season
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RMR Group A having less Tier 1 teams and now at the Legends stage having BO1 with many Tier 1 teams is hard. Escpecially BO1 are a coin flip. For example G2 playing their first BO1 against Vitality is not easy and after that against BNE on Ancient, which is their worst map is also not easy. Of course they could have won, but the system wasnt in their favour and obviously its not just a game about stats. High pressure and emotions are coming after going 0-2. So it is kind of a fluke for some teams. Being a Tier 1 team means also to grind very hard.
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wow its almost like when ur a tier1 team with literal staff members that are in charge of psychology and mental health you shouldnt be pressured by bo1 against tier3
also that g2 vs bne match there is really no excuse, like NO EXCUSE other than them being not ready. 10-3 lead on t side ancient when it's a ct sided map -> lost without even pushing it to overtime lmao, you can say all you want but it's nothing to do with bo1. just stupid executions and miscomunication, which once again is something that "TIER 1" team should have no problems with
as for g2 vs vitality that was arguably even worse, g2 lost 4v1 to zywoo in unloseable round, then 5v2 few rounds later and it was still rather close, but they simply gave it away. niko was #5 player of 2022, monesy #7, if such caliber players are nervous when leading 10-3 against objectively much worse opponent maybe they are just not that good?
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Just because they have Psychologists doesnt mean that they are mentally like a robot. So what you are trying to say that BO1 are just tactics and BO3 are just an overrated extension. Than why do we even play them? Because it shows which teams can better play after pressure and still manage to create a tactical game. BO1 means, you dont have a secured map pick and you dont have the chance to go in 1-1 after a bad match. Those top ten players are just ratings. Its a tactical team based game and those players dont mean anything when they are tilted and unconfident.
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Bo1 everyone comes with equal conditions tho. Yes they don’t have a secured map pick but neither do these lower teams, and saying that it’s better for underdog is just absurd because in bo1 map veto they actually end up playing the map that is more comfortable for the better team as opposed to bo3 where they have the chance to pick their best one to try winning it
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it would be arguable to call it luck if it wasnt so widely present among all these teams. one or two fluking out? sure, but its not one or two but in fact almost all of them. heroic and vitality were the only consistent ones so far
plus, when you drop to 1-2 or 2-2 as a better team you end up playing those who are already much worse anyway + they also failed first matches. gamerlegion went 0-2 3-2 after beating og and mouz, not the best among the top20 but still definitely better teams than gl on paper. that was 3 bo3 in a row, not lucky bo1s, and now they are likely to go 3-1 in legends to secure playoffs spot
i get that people tend to seek for explanation when the expected winner loses but calling it luck/fluke/insert here time and time again is just counterproductive
i agree bro, the major is exposing the tier 1 teams
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There will never be as dominant and as perfect team as Astralis. period.
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Man.. its completely related to the topic... You see now that there isnt even one team which can win 2 majors in a row, and astralis? They won 3 in a row! Can you imagine this? "3" o.O in a ROW.... and fourth in previous year. And I mean now like you said there is a lot of tier2 or even tier3 teams which know how to beat for example navi,faze or g2. When astralis had an ERA no-one could win with them, and that is the point...
And yea NIP also had an ERA but not as gr8 as Astralis in my opinion.
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a lot of ppl forget but what really happened wasnt astralis dominating everyone. the scene was UTTER GARBAGE, it was Astralis 10x better than liquid and liquid 10x better than everyone else. every once in a while navi popped in some tournament but they were unstable, and other teams were simply absent
not to undertake anything from astralis achievements but thats just reality. as competition progresses old records become impossible to beat, they had great success for their time but translating it to present day is pointless
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I dont know man... you can also say the same about other teams when nip did 87-0 XD But I think that soon cs:go is over and we should all say that astralis was the best team in cs:go cuz they had longest ERA and no-one could beat them on the most important events in cs;go(MAJORS)
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are you really that confident that they wouldnt lose 3 bo3s with how they kept losing 4v1 5v2 5v3 to vitality, running completely clueless vs fnatic and dropping 10-3 t lead on ct sided map? or that faze who barely clutched 16-14 and 19-17 after 3-16 and 14-9 lead vs deagles, or 12-2 on 3rd map.
thats quite a reach
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G2 played awful (both this major and last) but yes if they play 3 BO3s they probably advance
Faze lost 3-16 against BNE and closed them out. Which is the exact point of BO3s. Same thing probably happens with G2 in that BO1 vs BNE if it goes 3 games
Did G2 play bad? Yes. Is the format still bad? Also yes
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this goes the same way towards the underdog teams, look at gl for example. they started challengers with 0-2 but went 3-2 and now they are in playoffs. u could say they didnt beat a single good team but they had og and mouz in bo3 who are not top10 but also not tier3 like itb either
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Right, GL should've never been 0-2. Had they played 3 BO3s they probably don't drop that game against Mongolz and their seeding is better. They got lucky in legends but that loss to Mongolz means they would've played Faze if they lose against Apeks and G2 had beat Fnatic. They were very close to having the BO1 screw them as well
Top teams have more achievements over a longer timespan. Unless they get consistent victories they will remain T2 and their run was a fluke. CS is 40% about who has more players performing well at the same time. Global ranking is based a bit more on the absolute potential of a team and less on a single tournament. Prime Faze, prime G2 would win against these underdogs 99% of the time, players aren't perfect and upsets happen. Let's just enjoy good games and see who is better at the moment, in a year we will see who actually is the better team.
People act like tier 1 teams and players were born with 2 brains , 4 hands, 6 legs, they are not super humans, they are just like all of us.
Stop acting like they win all games, I'm not saying that they shouldn't, but they can't win it all.
Exactly. Its good we are coming to the end of the game, hopefully CS2 will mix this up.
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Tier 1 teams usually play tactical cs and expect their opponents to also play proper tactical cs. You don't have time to prepare for tier 2 teams so they abuse it by playing strat roulette. E.g. today ITB - TL matchup on ovp. ITB knew osee has an awp on A and they opt to walk all the way from mid to A through banana and they cought Yekindar off guard. But like that play does not make sense in any universe and if TL studied them, ITB would get punished for this stupidity so hard. Eventually TL understood that they are basically playing againts random NA tier 3 team so they demolished them on Anubis. But in B01 you don't have the first map to undestand wtf are these morons doing.
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Tldr - same guy who says g2 is bad says t2 is good for beating said bad team.
News just in "franchise leagues kinda suck for people not in the franchise" - you should talk to thorin you could be on hot takes for that absolute knowledge bomb!
Then consider why the system is the way that it is.
Bo1s are trash - they should make the nba just 1 quarter for the first 3 games of thier best of 7
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I agree kind of but i also think that we should at least move away from bo1 opening matches
Weak bait
Bo1s killed their pickems
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And bo3 finished off everyone else
Fnatic losing bo3 to itb, g2 losing to fnatic from 1-0 maps, nip losing bo3 to apeks, faze JUST BARELY surviving vs bne, but it’s “eViL bO1 fOrMaT”🤡
New round of excuses already loading anyway, now it’s the pressure from playing elimination match (caused by shit bo1 performance) xd
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G2 was a monster disappointment, but I didn't expect them to lose to fnatic. And Fnatic loss to ITB on overpass was hard to watch, ITB CT start was just a brick wall.
Faze comeback from out of nowhere was unexpected but they are definiltey at risk.
But man every time watching Liquid this major is just a rollercoaster
Legends absolutely fucked my picks haha
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Yeah same rip legends but I’m actually glad to see crying niko out and faze have realistically no chance at it so at least there won’t be another bs storyline
At this point heroic are the only ones who deserve it, vitality went 0-3 but it was mainly g2 losing 4v1 5v2 and such + can never trust apex in playoffs
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I'm just a big fan of the current Vitality lineup.
Heroic and Vita are imo the most likely finals, but I still have hope for Liquid.
Heroic is to be respected though because Cadian really wants that trophy.
Edit: Guess Niko never deserved a CSGO Major Trophy
proven beyond doubt
wtf good thread +1 i agree
my pick ems are ruined but i enjoyed the tournament a lot with these so called upsets.
NIP lost bo3 to apeks, fnatic lost bo3 to into the breach, navi lost a bo3 to monte, mouz lost a bo3 to gamerlegion and og lost a bo3 to gamerlegion
these franchised teams just aren't good enough
Considering that 95% of the community also do not play cs to high level and do not even care to watch tier 2, this is the sort of reaction you will expect. Although, I do have to say that for this particular major, open quals to rmr was fucking bad. In addition, it's the third consecutive major with seeding issues. I will put it in perspective on why it's bad, it only takes two upsets in the bo1 at any point (considering that there can be a total of 3 bo1 played its a high probably that this can happen). If these tier 2 teams beat a tier 1 with a high bulz score, it is certain that for the remainder of the stage they can face mid level bulz. Furthermore, the EU does not merit all these spots in the major. It might be a controversial opinion, but it seriously doesn't. 2 open quals as well LOLOLOLOL. CHECK 2ND OPEN QUALS ITS A FUCKING JOKE.
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Very true. Most of the tier 1 teams play in a vacuum. They face the same teams and players, again and again.
Whenever a new team appears in the tier 1 circuit, it happens in a way where they have a lot of time to study the new adversary. In that way they can adapt and get familiar with the team.
Now in the RMR, and subsequently the major, you see how badly many teams handle playing lesser known teams.
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"its unfair because they can antistrat us! there's so many demos of us."
idiots. they can antistrat because they play against the same opponents all the time. they're predictable as fuck, because all they do is play against each other.
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debate is over
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