76 replies
huh?
gla1ve?
67 replies
huh?
gla1ve?
9 replies
gla1ve?
huh?
8 replies
7 replies
?huh
?Gla1ve
6 replies
?huh
?Aleksib
5 replies
gla1ve only one team, karrigan multiple teams
13 replies
thats where every delusional fanboy disagrees. karrigan won tournaments with 16 year old frozen and newcomer ropz at that time. gla1ve needs zonic and his other star players to win anything.
karrigan clears this fraud gla1ve easily.
12 replies
any team needs star players to win lol are you dumb or you have a blinder on your eye that only sees karrigan's dick?
10 replies
The thing is, Karrigan had way more consistency in achieving things with like 4 different teams with totally different line-ups than gla1ve. And you gotta take into account that Gla1ve IGLd a national team while Karrigan IGl'd 3-4 INTERNATIONAL teams, which is WAY harder.
Doesnt mean gla1ve is a good IGL or was, but karrigan has done way more with a lot of adversities.
4 replies
#95
yes you're right about karrigan leading many rosters to the top. But there's a saying here that you need two hands to clap...i think the english equivalent is it takes 2 to tango
3 replies
I understand what you said, but look at vitalty who has Zywoo and just now have some achievements thx to some carrying or look at NaVi who doesnt have good achievements since like 2 years, same with G2 rn. If you dont have a correct leadership, no matter how much firepower you have, it wont end up working(ence kicking aleksib is an example). And Astralis management sucks but its on gla1ve to leave or stay and try 30 different line-ups until one works out and keep wasting his team in a shady org.
2 replies
but vita atm only have zywoo. Vita need Magisk and Spinx to be consistent and look they look very good rn. Dupreeh also seems to have okay performances and you can see how easy everything is.
NaVi only has simple. They had electronic but they want to make him IGL so now they don't have electronic as well.
G2, like Faze needs Niko, Hunter, Monesy, and JKS to perform. Yesterday JKS was the only one playing. You can see the difference when everybody plays vs when only JKS is playing.
for gla1ve as well, why he didn't leave astralis after dupreeh and magisk left has bamboozled me but ig if my stupid management is willing to pay me fat money why wouldn't I stay?
All I ask, give glaive a 4 man-superstar team. If he still can't deliver, I'll eat up all my words
1 reply
gla1ve has a decent team rn, their playstyles and personalities just don't match. He needs specific players to perform as he can't build a team himself.
Lol your only comeback is an insult & no facts.
2 replies
the first part was a fact but okay apparently most canadians on this site have forgotten how to read
1 reply
Canada is not USA bro,we speak foreign language there
flag checks out
39 replies
you haven't seen glaive orchestrate comebacks then
38 replies
29 replies
yes glaive's first major was a 15-8 comeback on the T side of train btw
28 replies
6 replies
eleague atlanta major 2017
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against the polish VP imagine, that is probably the best ever comeback.
1 reply
exactly
faze fans are so plastic with no respect for history
What are you talking about? lol
astralis - vp on train in atlanta 17 was 14-12, it was barely a comeback.
karrigan has always been the goat because he changed the meta singlehandedly, he made ct sided maps t sided suddenly because his analysis during the game was insane, if you listen to old TSM voice comms vods you can literally hear him call specific flashes enemy team will throw in specific rounds, it's literally details, he reads teams like a book, and that was not what Astralis wanted from Glaive, the reason they swapped out karrigan for Glaive was because he could frag, but he was never a better caller.
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glaive was always a good caller
you don't dominate for 2 and a half years without having good calls
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10 replies
yes he was
in fact karrigan and glaive would be the perfect case study in a sense to understand the impact star players can have on a roster but you guys just seem to wanna ignore that fact.
Karrigan's rosters have always had bloody superstars. glaive, after the og astralis disbanded has had a baiter, an inconsistent entry, 2 horrible awpers and a washed up xyp
8 replies
I totally agree, but what you seem to be missing is the fact that after the astralis og disband, Astralis has been trash asf. You're acting like even with a bad team, glaive is better than karrigan with a good team, but where are they? I don't see them in Paris? Number 24 in the world btw.
When Astralis was dominating in 17-19, glaive also had superstars.
7 replies
see all I am saying is, give glaive a superstar team and even then if glaive can't lead them to success I'll eat everything I've said
Think about it, current Faze is OP af. But when Ropz, twistzz and broky aren't hitting anything, karrigan's calling immediately becomes trash because his players can't take up space or get anything done. It takes 2 to tango. It's something any IGL will have to deal with.
I mean your RMR is the best example. Nobody was hitting anything and it took them literally an LCQ vs C9 for them to wake up and dismantle C9
Players are as dependant on a good IGL as a good IGL is dependant on good players
6 replies
Not sure I understand what your point is here exactly, but for most of it I agree, if 3 players on any team in the world doesn't hit their shots, then the calls are useless no matter who the igl is and that has nothing to do with either glaive or karrigan specifically. Calls are not magic, if you can't kill them, you lost.
5 replies
yes you've hit it
the glaive karrigan GOAT convo is pointless literally because of the point that you've understood. That good players need a good IGL as much as the converse is true
CSGO at the end of the day is a team game. Your calls don't mean shit if your players can't hit anything for their tournament lives
4 replies
Again, I agree that an igl needs his team and vice versa, but I respectfully disagree that you can't argue whether or not karrigan is or was better than glaive because of that.
That's exactly why I truly believe karrigan can be better than glaive despite Astralis dominating in 17-19 because Astralis had superstars in their prime and the calls was not as important. You can easily have insane calls and lose every game because your players doesn't hit anything as you said yourself, so the Astralis era doesn't really speak for glaive being the better caller in the end.
That being said though, it's definitely up for debate and people are fully entitled to have any opinion they want, and mine is that no igl in history beats karrigan on the calls and analysis alone, and not individual skills or wins vs. losses. The only caller that may be up there with him is cArn from 1.6.
3 replies
yep you're right
infact the more I talk about this the more I find myself really asking...hmm is this debate of the better IGL making any sense when there are so many factors out there
2 replies
wow actually a respectful convo gotta love that
1 reply
Agree with your username as well
Amazing deagler was always better off in NIP
karrigan barely beating bne with 4 top 20 players lmao
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it was huge comeback. ECO TECH RUSH B WITHOUT SHIT AS T ON TRAIN FROM 8 13 TO 16 14 IS SOME ACHIEVEMENT DUDE. ONLY DELUSIONAL FAZE FANS CAN SAY OTHERWISE.
Other point was vp mental, they thought they already won this major. But atlanta 2017 shows that we need bo5 in majors. 16 12 on nuke, we can consider it dominant. Then 2 16 14 after 1 clutch or force won. Xyp9x made one of best clutches in his career on this major.
then how did they win 16-14 kek
but it was a good comeback
1 reply
yes lmfao that was a fuck up
Yup, at least I remember mouz comeback vs astralis in epl :))
7 replies
i remember a vitality comeback vs faze in epl :))
6 replies
Comment wasnt about vita bud
5 replies
neither was it about mouz bud
4 replies
Yeah it was about karrigan :))
3 replies
for every time karrigan won againt astralis glaive beat him 3-4 times before the golden core broke up.
you are totally wrong and are just living off of the mouz roster to prove me wrong
2 replies
chill out, I gave you an example of a sick comeback by karrigan vs glaive. im totally wrong by giving an example? are you okay? no need to get so irritated buddy
1 reply
cool
where is he now?
1 reply
at home, looking at his trophies probly. and smiling.
3 replies
1 reply
glaive 5 years relevant,
karrigan 10 years
8 replies
flair
7 replies
6 replies
at least im not delusional… astralis flair has been embarrassing since 2019
5 replies
+1
+1
THE GOATTTTTTTTTTTTTT
BROKY MVP
everytime karrigan bottom frags from a game and comes back in late or in another game only to win brings me joy
GOAT IGL
14 replies
6 replies
where is karrigans 4 majors?
5 replies
The core that glaive was gifted was already great before he joined.
Karrigan had to work with multiple international rosters to achieve greatness.
What has glaive done without the astralis core? Underperfom each and every tournament. No longevity at all. Astralis winning 4 majors makes them the best team in CSGO but that doesn't make glaive the best IGL.
1 reply
Answer the first question. Then you can ask next one. Where is gla1ve now?
1 reply
hes in denmark right now i think
Glaive goat igl: hltv.org/matches/2364347/looking4org-vs-..
+1 lmao
+1 lmao
faze LCQ RMR omg KARRIBOT SO BAD KICK
Faze win vs NaVi OMG KARRIGAN GOAT
lmao faze fans are total idiots
+1
ez for the goat igl. fraud gla1ve could never.
what a game just WOW
3 replies
1 reply
Really?
Good for you=)
He is one of the best IGLs ever but I still think he needs to begin his transition. Training a new IGL and get ready for his coaching career. Every game is insanely stressful under karrigan because his style is just too sloppy. His brain is still very valuable as a coach. Look at Xizt. He is no where near karrigan's level but still doing very well with Heroic.
5 replies
what is blud waffing about?
1 reply
yeah i agree he should be transitioning into a coaching role for cs2 that would be cool to see
not good calls
karrigan > s1mple
46 replies
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1 reply
I am pretty sure even karrigan can't do shit with the rosters gla1ve had to work with since dev1ce and OG Astralis players left. Only since they benched xyp9x , gla1ve finally seems to have gotten a decent roster and he showed the results immediately. Even karrigan's weakest roster had that 3 top 20 players in woxic, frozen and ropz. Weak link in that team was chrisJ but even he was performing well during that time. People always says gla1ve only had success with one team but its not like gla1ve had much to work with since OG roster disbanded, thanks to incompetent Astralis Management. He had to work with likes of Lucky (Who is still struggling in Tier 3, farlig (same fate as lucky, even at his peak farlig was never top 20 material during his early days). Even everyone's favourite bubzjki had mediocre rating throughout his stay in Astralis (gla1ve wasn't even playing in Astralis due to his health break and i think magisk was calling). My point is gla1ve had to work with very bad players since OG roster disbanded , even when k0nfig and blamef joined , this made roles a mess at astralis. because both k0nfig and blameF roles clashed with the roles gla1ve and xyp used to play for prime Astralis. Not to mention constant changes to roster like every 3 months , coach changes every other event, etc. Basically since OG roster disbanded everything that could go wrong for Astralis did go wrong. I'm pretty sure karrigan would have suffered the same fate as gla1ve or even worse if he had to go through same things. Karrigan luckily never had issues like this, he always choose his players and always had superstars around him and i am also pretty sure Astralis was gla1ve's first proper tier 1 team and he made that team the best of all time in csgo.
6 replies
>gla1ve finally seems to have gotten a decent roster and he showed the results immediately.
What results? I don't see them at the major, or in the finals of any big tournaments.
Gla1ve did great with the Gold Astralis roster but he hasn't shown that he can do anything with any other roster. There's a gap between Gla1ve and Karrigan. Gla1ve did an amazing job with one roster but Karrigan has done a great job with 4, including one that shouldn't have even worked (Mouz), you're not going to win the argument by trying to discredit Karrigan because the ability to discredit Gla1ve is much bigger than it is for Karrigan.
5 replies
>What results? I don't see them at the major, or in the finals of any big tournaments.
When I said decent roster I meant after they benched xyp and only event they have participated is brazy party, where they only lost to Cloud9 in final in a close BO3. Considering they had 2 rookies and with less than 1 week of prep time they did pretty good against teams like ENCE, 9INE, Apeks and Gamer Legion who all are in Legend of this major and very solid Tier 1.5 teams, they upset against many tier 1 teams to reach Legends Stage. Even Faze struggled against some of these team. We will see how the new roster does in IEM Dallas.
Also they can't be in finale of any tournament because they haven't gotten chance to show themselves yet.
>Gla1ve did great with the Gold Astralis roster but he hasn't shown that he can do anything with any other roster.
Did you just miss the whole point of my previous paragraph, whole paragraph was how gla1ve NEVER HAD ANYTHING TO WORK WITH until they finally did -xyp9x and now they seems to have decent roster with two newbies. Also saying did "great" is an understatement. He literally did with one roster what karrigan isn't able to do with 4 roster and 30+ players. Man literally stayed at 1st Place ranking for 121 weeks, that's 2.3 years , he did so while everyone in the world was trying counter strat him and everything he did was being analysed , man literally the changed the META and how the game is played, won 4 major and 3 of them back to back. People were literally calling game boring because they know they Astralis was always winning. It was never about who will the event , it was who will come 2nd. I don't how can you say that its easier to discredit gla1ve than karrigan. Also i wasn't trying to discredit karrigan, i was talking about how much worse gla1ve had than karrigan. Heck before ropz joined , Karrigan was struggling like gla1ve right now. After ropz he went ahead and won many trophies and he was struggling with 3 top 20 players without ropz and gla1ve currently has blameF (very passive and baity playstyle which works great if you have play around it but current astralis doesn't) and dev1ce (only impact player) and 2 newbies. Also Karrigan is good IGL but gla1ve is still superior in every aspect besides having IGL'd multiple teams or international roster.
4 replies
How delusional do you have to think that gla1ve is "superior in every aspect besides multiple teams or international roster" when he's #24, hasn't won a single trophy since early 2020 AND hasn't been able to adapt to the current meta? He can't even win a T2 tournament homie. He had his peak and it was an amazing peak, his longevity is laughable compared to Karrigans.
3 replies
Sir you are the delusional one here, I pretty much gave my reasoning behind everything i said, how hard is to understand my point, gla1ve hasn't even gotten a single good roster to work with since OG team disbanded. I bet gla1ve would have performed very good if he had players that karrigan got. IGL CANT DO SHIT if your players are not hitting their shot. Heck you just have to look any of the FAZE losses recently and you will see how badly faze loses when individuals misses and dont show up. What happens to karrigan's calls then? He literally has 4 top 20 players and they still struggle when they don't show up, gla1ve literally only have dev1ce and blameF and blameF's playstyle is very passive so very little impact from him. Point is gla1ve cant do shit if for last 2 years he has to work with bottom of the barrels in terms of players. Anyways it's clear you dont want to change your mind , you are just stubborn on your point and already have made up your mind in this topic and it wont change by me or anyone else. So i am ending the convo here.
2 replies
bro, gla1ve managed to create just great team. No stars, Just average players at the moment. Yet still he managed to create dominant team and everyone was actually killing and listening to him. Bottigan played with same average players and achieved nothing in tsm. Only diff was cajunb so u have great comparison what gla1ve and what bottigan achieved with same dudes
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till 2017 they were just average
9 replies
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what I mean average? Good players who can't win anything for long time. Karrigan played with same guys as gla1ve did and didnt won 4 majors
6 replies
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keep defending bottigan lul gla1ve did so much better with same people and u will call botigan goat igl hahah go cry gla1ve is top
4 replies
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gla1ve goat igl and just deal with it
2 replies
0/8 nt
22 replies
21 replies
yep no points just call out flair
0/8 no nt this time
20 replies
19 replies
yep 0 points
0/8 again
you are not a fanboy and still ignore facts so who's the worse one here?
18 replies
17 replies
when online started glaive still dragged astralis to top 1 after being brought to top 20 because of glaive and xyp's departure from the team and when snappi and jugi and who all weren't brought to the team.
Karrigan's roster mania is also a result of him always having good, selfless players with him. Glaive, ever since the og roster disbanded has had an inconsistent entry, a baiter with solid aim but 0 initiative, a washed-up xyp, 2 horrible awpers, and now academy players.
It's a simple fact that everybody wants to deny and then you call me out saying I can't accept facts
16 replies
Gla1ve "dragged" no one to top 1, they were riding the momentum they had from the Golden Astralis roster and as soon as that died down they dropped massively. It's funny how you blame Gla1ve's lack of success on his players when Karrigan had the exact same on Mouz. He had W0xic a SUPER INCONSISTENT awper, frozen a literal nobody(no offense to him), ChrisJ (washed up) and Ropz but he brought that team to #2 in the world before COVID butchered that team.
Karrigan has done much more with the same "problems" that Gla1ve currently has, all this does is show the gap between those two.
15 replies
> It's funny how you blame Gla1ve's lack of success on his players when Karrigan had the exact same on Mouz.
no he didn't.
Frozen and Ropz were broken and Woxic started hitting his peak back then.
I mean even if you are right, this was possible because everybody on that team was willing to die for the round. Glaive has never had that type of player ever since the OG astralis broke up.
Stop dragging Mouz into everything because even you know that they didn't stay at number 2 for a long time
You say COVID killed Mouz, well why can't i say COVID killed the best team of all time? karrigan was poached from Mouz, struggled with Faze with cold and olof on the team, then struggled with only olof on the team and when ropz came karrigan got them to the top. It's a simple fact that you again choose to ignore.
It's a simple case of a great IGL always having great players with him. You can't run a team to top 1 without either of those
14 replies
Yes he did. Frozen was a 16(17?) year old kid coming into Mouz with no prior credentials or performance at T1, Karrigan is the reason he's the player he is today. Ropz was always good but Dev1ce is the same so the comparison still holds water. W0xic hit his peak under Karrigan, hmmm I wonder why, ever since he left Karrigan he has been dogshit compared to what he was, so he's good with Karrigan and bad without.
Glaive never had that type of player because he couldn't create them. The golden Astralis roster core (Dupreeh, Dev1ce, Xyp9x) came from Karrigan.
COVID killed Mouz because W0xic is Turkish and there were problems with visas and such things at the start of COVID (just like with OG and C9).
COVID didn't kill the best team of all time because they're all Danish, middle of Europe, amazing ping, no problems with connection or visas.
FaZe with Olof struggled because the plan was always to get Ropz, that's just how it was.
13 replies
>Glaive never had that type of player because he couldn't create them.
again incorrect. no IGL can make a promising player good if that player doesn't have it in him. It's the same old good player and good IGL go hand-in-hand that you absolutely refuse to acknowledge.
glaive inherited the core from Karrigan sure, but under karrigan they were chokers. Under glaive they were winners. Besides Dupreen, device and xyp were already crazy good at the start of CSGO. So yet another karrigan led roster with superstars beforehand
12 replies
karrigan apologist's will delude any team success (that he ran ) to mostly his IGL and fail to acknowledge that the teams success is massively relient on firepower first then IGL'ing and player's dont magickly become good because of "muh igl" but ruther on their own initiative and the massive supportng staff (such as coach ) behind them (including IGL)
its a futile discussion , both gla1ve and karrigan deserve the GOAT IGL title , both have something that the other does not and its simply subjective and at the end of the day , any IGL that cant partake in the firepower of the team is a fraud IGL that keeps getting carried
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>again incorrect. no IGL can make a promising player good if that player doesn't have it in him. It's the same old good player and good IGL go hand-in-hand that you absolutely refuse to acknowledge.
Promising players still need an IGL to flourish under so it's not incorrect at all, or do you want to pretend that sergej doesn't exist?
>Besides Dupreen, device and xyp were already crazy good at the start of CSGO. So yet another karrigan led roster with superstars beforehand
So they're superstars but chokers? Pick one buddy. But this also means that Gla1ve inherited a team of superstars and that it's not to his credit that he won so much. Checkmate.
6 replies
superstars can be chokers wdym?
Faze has always had a reputation for choking even though they have always had superstars
I mean okay glaive inherited superstars. Karrigan always had superstars so you prove nothing.
also sergej? seriously?? come on now don't drag anybody into the convo because you wanna prove something
5 replies
Faze had a reputation for choking because they fucked up in 1 map tf u on about?
"Karrigan always had superstars so you prove nothing." Neither do you because Gla1ve ALWAYS had superstars unlike Karrigan in Mouz.
I'm not dragging sergej into anything, he's was an upcoming talent who lost his IGL when Allu got too big for his boots and then he left ENCE. I'm giving you an example of a promising player who failed to live up to his promise because of the lack of an IGL.
4 replies
again bringing up mouz sheesh. Ropz and frozen and woxic aren't star players?
bro come on dude
3 replies
Ropz was, but W0xic sure as hell wasn't. He was a promising talent prior to the Mouz roster, Karrigan unlocked him and then he wilted away, like one does without a good IGL. Woxic has 1 Top 20 appearance and 1 MVP, both of those happened in 2019 under Karrigan. Frozen wasn't a star player he BECAME a star player under Karrigan. Before Mouz he was playing in NoChance, an unknown team. He became a star player under Karrigan. KARRIGAN MADE FROZEN AND WOXIC INTO STARS.
2 replies
okay he made frozen and woxic into stars cool
but frozen under dexter is still pretty good. Karrigan would have taught him all the tricks but frozen's desire to be a solid player is stronger than we can ever imagine...please think about it. Karrigan's a good IGL but can anybody out there , no matter how good they are, can help someone who is not willing to sacrifice? Who isn't willing to learn? Who doesn't have potential?
In Astralis, that player can be blamef. But he doesn't take initiative even though he's the star of the team. Astralis finally got rid of xyp and got Altekz. But nobody on the current astralis roster remotely shows the promise frozen showed back then.
Again, it takes 2 to tango
woxic is trash now but he committed career suicide by entering the revolving door of EF.
1 reply
1 reply
yep that 1v1 vs npl probably pissed him off
Karrigan so impressive
you faze fans really make no sense
when Faze dropped off at the latter half of 2022 you kept calling karrigan old and wanted him booted alongside rain. This coninued on into 2023 and when Karrigan finally won the IGS you started calling him a GOAT. Then again Faze fucked up in Rio and again -karrigan -rain.
Major RMR Faze 2-3 again -karrigan -rain. They squeak past C9 and Karrigan GOAT again.
Major Challengers, they lost to ENCE handedly and -karrigan
Major Legends faze 0-2 - karrigan
now when karrigan wins vs NaVi, in a game everybody knew faze would win he's the GOAT.
How deluded/stupid are you Faze fans? Infact the story is longer but HLTV has the memory of a goldfish
1) gla1ve is the goat IGL for achievements, gameplay analytics, innovation, highest peak IGLing.
2) karrigan is the best mentor IGL for achievements, players' analytics, developing talents and progressing a team.
3) pronax is one of the best IGLs for achievements, innovation, unique aggressive strats and possibly the best (together with karrigan) in taking advantage of opponents weaknesses.
4) Ex6TenZ is one of the best IGLs for counter-managing strats and figuring out solutions at the critical moments. Possibly the french "elemeNt" of his days.
5) Xizt has the most characteristic Swedish style of IGLing like the old days. A way more progressive caller and smarter player than HeatoN , but nevertheless he pretty much evolved the swedish IGL role (together with pronax) to what it resembles today (sadly hasn't been updated much from then).
6) FalleN is the best non-european IGL imho for his achievements, carrying a whole NA scene for years with his teams (i will not say he created the brazilian scene because cogu and KIKO came before him), the best fragging IGL ever and in terms of player performance mid-game as well he went above our expectations a looot of times. His strats weren't that amazing, but the accuracy in the executions were something to remember. Same as the old NiP counter retakes of the site. Very well executed.
7) elemeNt . The goat IGL of cs 1.6. He outbrained numerous times all the best teams in his prime.
If you remember him, you understand. If not, i cannot help.
1 reply
that is so recency bias and on top of that he always got handed a superstar team never he created a team or found his team, first he played with niko and guardian like the best rifler and the best awper itw at that time, and still choked. i dont need to say anything more than he got kicked from astralis and got replaced by glaive and instantly won their first major. never will karrigan be in the same sentence as glaive. 0/8 try next time :D
5 replies
chrisj frozen (17y) and ropz were a superstar team? lol. theyre now supersteams, karrigan formed them
1 reply
and they just won 1 event bcz astralis as usual choked on their home soil, besides that nothing impressive anyways there is nothing wrong being the second best IGL idk why yall gotta push the narrative so hard, dont be like cr7 fans who just try so hard to put him next to messi, u gotta understand that glaive is in a league of his own
0/8 b8
try harder next time
1 reply
+1
This guy is getting so overhyped. Barely staying in this major by luck and people try to push him as the GOAT with 1 Major
funny because they were so close not to even make it to the major
if they lost to today and didn't comeback in that fashion, all of HLTV would be screaming -karrigan without a fkin doubt
2 replies
greatest igl, after gla1ve and pronax
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